 So let's go ahead and get started, welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We're really excited you're with us today because I'm one of my favorite people and banker extraordinaire Pamela Keefe is with us who, Pamela M. Keefe, vice president, nonprofit relationship manager at National Bank of Arizona. And we have with us today, Mario Muzerot, oh my gosh, Muzerot. You're on the right track, you're on the right track. I doubted myself, Mario, I doubted myself. Mario is good and I typically go by Mario. I don't expect people to break their tongues and pronounce my name. Thank you for the introduction. Thank you for having us. Oh my gosh, well we're really excited. It's going to be a lot of fun again. If we haven't met yet, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd and my trusty co-host is speaking at a conference today in Chicago and she'll be rejoining us tomorrow. Again, we are here because we have amazing sponsors and most of these folks have been with us day one. We're now 800 plus episodes in on the nonprofit show and our friends at Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk make these episodes possible. So thank you to them. Hey, we have exciting news. We can come to you on your sofa, in your office, on your phone, wherever because now we have our own new app that the team at the American Nonprofit Academy created for us. It is remarkable. Go ahead and download the app. You can simply scan this QR code if you're watching this live or via one of our archives and we'll get you started. You can also speak into your smart speaker and we will come up on your TV. It's kind of freaky, but it's true. And then of course we are in podcast format. So if you'd like to consume an audio broadcast, you can do that as well. Okay. My friends with the bank. Pam, let's start with you. Sure. And have you tell us about your journey into nonprofit banking? It's not nonprofit banking. It's banking service, serving nonprofits. Yes. So I have been with National Bank for over 20 years now, 15 of those years. I've been in nonprofit banking and, you know, I love my role. You get to meet so many people, the so many people that have this passion for what they do. And there's so many great missions and it's, it's like they're changing the world and we as a banker get to be a part of that. So it's, it's a great relationship with National Bank of Arizona and nonprofit banking. And it's so important to be a part of what they do and in our community. They nonprofits are the economic engine to our so very important. And we try and we do different things for nonprofits to really try to help them in so many different levels. So yes, my journey so far has been wonderful. I'm not going anywhere. We've met so many years ago and it's great. You've built a lot of great relationships. Yeah, you do. Mario, talk to us about your journey on being a commercial banker and then working with the nonprofit sector. It's been amazing. It's, it's, it's been a blessing to be part of the nonprofit community. I started in banking about 20 years ago. I would say to be closer about 18 plus was with Wells Fargo for about 17 of those years. And I just made my, one of the best moves in my life to, to switch to National Bank of Arizona and work with Pam. Pam has been great. Pam and I known each other from different times. We worked together in different events that we supported some more clients and it's been a great journey. So I've been assisting nonprofits for about eight years now. So the, the best part of my day is coming home and having the feeling that not just that I was able to provide for my family, but also I helped the community directly or indirectly. So that's kind of, it's a win-win. It's not just a J-O-B. It's something that I take pride in and day in and day out. And it's, it's very rewarding. So I love it. And I serve on the board and I touched so many, not different nonprofits, not just my clients. Something I have passion for is I have two old girls. So they're in public schools. So education and kids that need our assistance are. So top of my priorities. Well, let's get into this a little bit more because I want to start off by asking you both and Pam, I'll start with you. Sorry. I gotta ask you, do banks even want nonprofit clients? Cause you know, we're not always like a head of the curve when it comes to money and all these things. So is that even something that's a thing? Yeah, absolutely. Banks want to work with nonprofit organizations on so many different levels. Number one, we created nonprofit banking 15 years ago, 15 plus years ago and created dedicated accounts for nonprofits, dedicated services. We're very mindful of our fees for nonprofits. So we offer everything from an account all the way to a 403 B for retirement for nonprofits. You know, we bank upwards of 3000 nonprofits in the state of Arizona. So and growing that we have our work cut out for us. Mario and I, I mean, we have about 16,000 nonprofits in Arizona from A to Z, you know, very small to very large. So we want to assist nonprofits in any way that they need help from their accounts to a commercial loan. So yes, absolutely. Banks want to work with nonprofits. So Mario, tell us what some of these instruments are. I mean, Pam mentioned that you have, you have different, you know, resources and tools for nonprofits. But I think a lot of times nonprofits don't realize that, that there, there are lines of credit. There are things that they can secure. Talk to us a little bit about that. Exactly. We do have different products, deposit and credit products that suit the needs of a nonprofit. So the main thing for right now, the big push and the big focuses on the FDIC protection. So a lot of nonprofits, when they get their audit, there's a, you know, a sentence or two saying, oh, your money is not safeguarded because you have access of 250,000. So what we did as a bank, we wanted to make sure in this, during this turbulent times that we have a solution for our client that they don't have to go, if they have, for instance, they have a million, they don't have to go to four different banks and open, open four different accounts so they can protect money. It's a lot of work. It's not the best use of their time. So what we do, we are part of the Intrify. So we are able to open one single account here and place the funds in different banks, but they only get one statement and they are doing only one account opening versus going to four different banks. So they're just one of the solutions that we came up to help our nonprofits. We have a community checking account which has low requirements for, for instance, the new nonprofits, they don't have a whole lot of funds raised already. So what they do, they start with the minimal amount. So we want to make sure we cater to those too. We're not just looking at the big, you know, mature phased nonprofits. So we have that product. We also have a consortium card, which is a commercial card that helps nonprofits exclusively. So what we did, we were able to put all the nonprofits in one bucket to maximize their return, rewards or revenue share, we call it. So that's another product. And last but not least, it's a nonprofit financing. We have a product that's called tax exam financing. And for capital projects, two, three or more million, we have a product that can help them about, roughly about 20% on their interest rates. If their interest rates 5%, we can help them out, maybe get it down to four. There's other things that the issuance costs and stuff, but in the long run, that's a great product. And we're very proud to be able to offer that kind of product. So we do have, we listen to our clients. That's the first and foremost. And we get the feedback. Then we go back to our management and say, this is what something that nonprofit needs. So let's try to cater to them, make their life easier. So they are engine, like Pam said, of our economy. And our community is here. So we want to make sure they stay in existence and they're able to serve our community. So we want a good client, but at the same time, we want them to be able to survive. So Pam, let me ask you about this because it seems to me that nonprofits are maybe reticent or even to the other extreme, afraid to talk to their banker and talk to them about issues of finance and actually more than just that checking account, but more of these strategic pieces. Can you explain that to us? I mean, what it is you see? Absolutely. So I think when a nonprofit comes to us, we not only give them a list of items that we would need in order to process a line of credit or a commercial card, we'll walk through whatever it might be. I mean, it's different for every nonprofit, but I mean, we'll definitely have a discussion with them, a lot of hand holding and our underwriters are mindful as well of looking at a nonprofit. Sometimes I think cash flow is an issue, but we work with our nonprofits and a lot of hand holding, a lot of discussion. So and aside from that, I think we've really tried to offer services to let them know, we're here for you as a consultant or if you just want to talk about what does it look like if we were to do a commercial loan down the road, purchasing a building or whatever it may be. And so we want to be their partner and that's how we look at it. And as Mario said, we're out in the community quite a bit and we just want to offer and create value and whatever that might look like, whether that's educating on what a bank looks for in financials. So it's very important to us that they know that and to take fear out of that equation because we are there as their partner. And I think that's a very important, it's very important and it differentiates, I think Mario and I from everyone else because we want them to feel comfortable and to know what is needed and what we are looking for as a bank. You know, Mario, that's an interesting thing to ask about when you talk about a relationship and working with nonprofits. I hear a lot of nonprofits and I have say, and I've been in this discussion, well, let's go to the bank to get them to sponsor something or to help underwrite or help fund because they have all the money. So how do we get a different mindset and to be looking at banks across this country as somebody that we can engage with? And I got to ask this blunt question, what are you as a banker looking for in creating a relationship with a nonprofit? Not just the banking services but kind of some of, you know, maybe that bigger level thinking. What does that look like to you? So honestly, integrity, they come first. So we need to have the communication, open channel. So we need to talk and set expectations. That's the most important thing. We want to be a trusted partner, like Pam said. We want to be an integral part of their growth and their success. So like Pam mentioned on credit. So as we all know nonprofits, 5-1, C-3, C-6 are not owned by owners. It's a nonprofit that doesn't have owners nor guarantors. So that's something we talk to our clients or prospects and we let them know when it comes to financing there's different aspects we look at and we educate them. Maybe it's a no today, but it's never a no three years from now. We try to let them know this is what we look for. For instance, cash flow. That's something they'll look for. It doesn't look like you can support the building that's X amount of money. Maybe we can look at something maybe a little bit cheaper or maybe we can work on these numbers and maybe three years from now, maybe we can get to the finish line. So I feel like the integrity of a banker also a client and then being open, having those open communication channels, I think that's the most important. So it goes both ways. We need to be available for our clients and clients also, I know they get busy, but they also need to be proactive. They need to talk to us and we need to work together to accomplish our goals. So it's a partnership. It's not just a we're a client and we want to make sure that we support them in different avenues like you said, fundraising, community events and different aspects of their day-to-day operations. So we are here to be a partner. So along those lines, we have a viewer that's just asked this interesting question and it's like, do we have to bank with an organization in order to expect financial support from that institution? Yes and no, I would say. So we all look for partnerships. So we both benefit from having the relationship, but we do have passion for different type of nonprofits. So for us, we will even support a nonprofit that's not our client. As long as they're doing good thing for the community and we are seeing the impact they're making, we'll definitely support. Pam's been with the MBAZ for more than I have. Yeah, absolutely. There's so many different ways to work with nonprofits. I know that the bank has tasted the Biltmore. We have it every year and we use a nonprofit as a benefactor for that event, which that event, there's over a thousand that attended last year. So it's getting bigger every year. And so as a bank, we try to create different channels to add value to a nonprofit, whether that be featuring them in our Elevate Arizona magazine, which we do once a quarter. We look at nonprofits that we can feature. And then relationships with the media, like I said, it's all about relationship and it's all about partnership. So I think that's a key component. To add to the answer and to address the question more precisely, Taste of the Biltmore is one of the events that we have once a year in October where we're inviting everyone to come. It's a fun party. It's like a block party and all the proceeds go to a nonprofit. Last year was Gabriel's Angels. This year is Circle the City. So Circle the City is not our client, but we love their mission, what they do in the community, helping homeless individuals with their health issues. So we are donating all the proceeds to a nonprofit that's not our client. So to answer the question. Pam, talk to us about a part of the resource that any financial institution has, is their leadership and getting board placement from financial institutions is a big thing. How does your bank look at that and do you have restrictions or are you welcoming this idea to put your leadership onto boards? Because that can be a little dicey. It's very important. I know all of our executives, including myself and Mario, sit on a board or a committee or an advisory council. It is very important. It's part of who we are. It's just not joining a board or joining a committee and putting on that hat. And just sitting there not really offering much back to the board or the committee or advisory council. So it is very important. So we are very involved in that. And so I think a lot of banks are, we're here, local in Arizona, but I know across the board, across the country it is very important. You want to be a part of their mission and it has to pull at your heart. You can't just join a board just to join a board. I mean it has to be something that you're passionate about as a person. And that's first. Yeah. Mario, what do you think, I mean as a banker, have you ever felt like you were being asked to join a board specifically because you had a banking relationship and the thought was, well, if we get them on our board, we'll get their money. Have you encountered that? I think I have. That was a softball question because I mean, you know, that's the reality. So then let's go to the next level. How do you manage that? And it's managing expectations into what you said earlier, communications. But how have you dealt with that? I provided different support for the organizations, but if I wasn't able, if I didn't have passion for it, I would just, like you said, integrity and honesty is number one. So I will tell them I already have, because I'm on the board already. And I have passion for it. And like Pam said, we want to make sure that the mission aligns with us individually, with the bank, with the community, and we're all benefiting from it. It's not just being on the board to pool or source some funds or just to be on the board as a banker. So I feel like it has to be a joint need and a joint effort. So yes, I have been asked before and I try to be honest, and honesty doesn't kill, and I feel like people are going to respect you for it even more, just being not sugar-coating things and just telling how it is. But be able to provide, because all those nonprofits are doing a great job. Even if you don't have 100% passion for it, they're doing something good. So go out, help out. What we do also here, I try, Pam and I, we try to gather volunteers. So that's something that we do, because we feel like it's an untapped potential that we can do here. We have over 1,000 employees, 60 branches, corporate building that hosts a lot of different events, but we do that as well. We host events for nonprofits. We will go out and Habitat for Humanity, we'll do the walk. We'll go pack salads for homeless folks. So it's many different ways. I might sit on the board. Sit on the board is great, but there's other things that you can get involved and help a nonprofit. Pam, what do you see in that space with your leadership getting involved and the expectation, or not even the expectation, but the unwritten, you know, ask that's going to come to your leadership once they join an organization? I think it happened, yes. So let's just say one of our executives is going to sit on the board or I sit on the board and they expect, you know, you to be, either donate what you can or be a part of getting the monies, the funds needed for whatever that might be. So that is just a given up front. You know, that is the expectation. That's why I think it's so important as an individual to truly have that passion and not just do it, just to do it. I mean, it's got to be from the heart. And yeah. So with Mario and I, too, we have, we get to work with all these nonprofits and figure out ways that we can help. There's so many different ways, so many different ways to get back. Writing a check is just one. Volunteering your time, connecting, maybe with other like-minded organizations, giving them your center of influences. So maybe a CPA or an attorney that's focused on nonprofits. All of those, I think are just very important and it helps. It just helps both the relationship and it helps build trust, you know. So Mario and I know you're doing that now, too. So it's just, it's just who we are. It's something that we do just inherently. We don't have a lot of time left, but I kind of want to end with this question and I love it. It's kind of like a two-part question. So the first part is what makes a good customer? And Mario, let's start with you. When you're thinking about the nonprofit landscape, what makes a good customer for not only your institution, but, you know, banking systems across the country? Clear expectations, communication channels, number one. Passionate CEO, CFO and executive team. We typically see good standing a nonprofit with the passionate team of leaders. So that's something that's a must. To respect our expertise, I feel like that's a big part. They need to respect our expertise and our time. I would say willing to spend some resources as well to improve their business. At the end of the day, it's a business. They're running. So they need to invest a little bit to get something in return. For instance, I'll give you an example. Right before COVID, I was trying to get all my most of my clients to switch everything to have ability to do their banking online. And it did come with the cost. But some costs, for instance, why if you go into the branch computer, it's maybe 15 bucks. So we said, why don't you have this? Why don't you have the ACH ability? And they were kind of postponing some of them, not all of them. Most of them already had it because they took our lead on it. So it was when the COVID hit, it took a little while to get those things implemented. So we're going to spend some resources and trust in us as their trusted advisor. And it goes back to the first thing, trust and being open to communication and being open in our ideas. And again, commitment to a relationship, I think that's the main thing. So we are building here, it's a partnership. So it's a relationship and I feel like that's where it starts and ends. And fear and flexible. Come to us, be proactive. Come to us, we always tell people in our clients and the CFOs, executives, come to us when you can get credit. Don't wait until you have one bad or two bad years. They'll bad history of credit with us before we can move into different things. But that's my take on it. So then Pam, on the other side of the desk, what makes a good banker? If we're a nonprofit and we're going out there and we're trying to determine what's going to be the best fit for our organization, what does that look like? Well, I will say National Bank, we're more about relationships than we are about transactions. So I think of the banker being proactive, being committed, being available. All of those are very important and just knowing what their needs are and how we can assist and being proactive and like when COVID hit and had the PPP loans that we assisted with, we reached out to our clients and said, okay, this is what we need, this is what's going to happen as we were building our system as we went. And so we helped hundreds and hundreds of nonprofits and for-profit businesses with PPP loans. It's just, instead of sitting back and waiting for a customer to call you, it's just being proactive and reaching out to them saying this is what's going to happen and this is our timeline. So I think and I know I would as a customer would appreciate that. And so it's, yeah. It's interesting. Well, you two have been great. It's really been amazing to get this perspective. I feel like it's somewhat, we have this fear with the banking system in the nonprofit sector. We feel like we got to go out and raise the money and then we can work on our mission and we forget that there are instruments and there are tools and relationships that we can have with our financial institution. So I appreciate you sharing some of your thoughts and giving us kind of a different lens with which to explore this. Again we've had Pamela M. Keefe, Vice President and nonprofit Relationship Manager with National Bank of Arizona. Mario Muzrozhevich. Pretty good. Thank you. Yeah, that's okay. I've had challenging names this week, my friend. I really have. Vice President, Commercial Banker of Nonprofit Banking Division. Again, also with National Bank of Arizona. It's been really fun to see the two of you engage with us. And also I'll just say engage in the community with which I live in. You do a lot of work. Pam, again you and I worked on, we first met on a nonprofit action that was very of historical significance to our state in 2009. And so it was fun to see your trajectory in our community as a nonprofit leader, banking leader. So thank you ever so much. Thank you, Julia. We so appreciate you allowing us to be on your show. This is wonderful. So thank you. Oh my gosh, it's been a lot of fun. Hey everybody again, I'm Julia Patrick, the CEO of American Nonprofit Academy. Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd will be back with us tomorrow. Again, we want to thank our supporters who allow us to have these conversations with super guests like Pam and Mario each and every day. And they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought, excuse me, Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the people that really help us navigate all the things going on in the nonprofit sector which can be a challenge and but very, very exciting. As we like to end every episode, we want to remind ourselves, our viewers, our guests, our listeners, even our sponsors to stay well so you can do well. Thank you, you too. Go out and do more good work for us.