 And welcome to this week's edition of Business in Hawaii. I am John Strandberg and we are broadcasting live from the ThinkTech studios in downtown Honolulu. If you want to tune in, we are at www.thinktechhawaii.com. You may also subscribe to our programs and get on our mailing list at that site as well. The theme of Business in Hawaii is to share with you stories of local business by local people. Our guests share their journey to building a successful business right here in home. In the ThinkTech studio today is Joy Dugu of Advocates Pro Services. Joy, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Before we get started, let's talk about what Advocates Pro Services is. The name itself says math. Yes. Advocates Pro Services is a recruiting and staffing firm that specializes in placement of accounting and finance professionals and is locally owned and locally operated by Lynn Herring, who used to be an executive recruiter in San Francisco. Prior to recruiting, she was a big four CPA and a controller in Hawaii. Advocates Pro has been placing accounting and finance professionals in companies ranging in size from one owner to large publicly held companies. We recruit for roles such as CFO, controller, director of finance, internal auditor. We also recruit for auditing tax professionals for CPA firms. Our clients have included local CPA firms as well as one of Hawaii's largest banks, close to Hawaiian Bank. We also have an airline company, a large real estate company and a large healthcare organization that we do business with. Basically, we can help any company that needs accounting and finance professionals. Advocates Pro started in 2007 and Lynn chose the name Advocates Pro Services because she wanted a name that had some reference to accounting and finance. Since the Advocates is generally known as the first calculator, she thought it was a logical choice. That's how we got the name Advocates Pro Services. She places finance and individuals in the finance. That makes sense. Yes, we both do. I'm one of the directors in the company. Tell me about your background. My background is very similar to Lynn's background. I have 15 years of accounting and finance experience, two years with Ernst and Young, completed all my CPA requirements and then went to work for a very large recruiting company in Southern California. In fact, the same company Lynn worked for. I then went into internal recruiting for a couple of large companies and then moved to Hawaii when I got married seven months ago. I now work as a director with Lynn at Advocates Pro Services. You're new to Hawaii and you do recruiting. One of the questions I had for today when I was trying to find a guess for the show was everyone's not familiar with recruiting. I mentioned the head hunter term before, recruiting, HR, hiring managers. Do you share with us what the differences are between all that? Sure, sure. A head hunter is really an older term that's used back in the 70s and 80s, maybe early 90s. I just age myself. We changed the term because a head hunter was really known for a salesperson that plucked individuals out of their companies and there was a mentality of kind of a sales shark that only was interested in making placements and making money. They really didn't care much about the candidate or the client. It was really more just making money. And then the recruiting term became more popular because it's really more of a relationship driven business. We're recruiting four companies. And so the title recruiter shows you that we're actually working for the client but we also worked for the candidate but for free. So being a recruiter and being a head hunter are similar, just a little bit different tactic because a recruiter cares more about the person. A little bit different though than HR. HR is more benefit driven, employee retention. Whereas we're focused more on getting the client to hire the right person. Exactly. And the hiring manager in this whole process is not the HR manager. It's the decision maker. It's the person that the candidate will report to. So if I'm placing a senior accountant, it's usually the accounting manager who's the hiring manager or a controller or a CFO. And HR does sometimes play a part in that process. It depends on whether they have a talent acquisition team or if they just have an HR recruiter that kind of helps to coordinate everything for the outside recruiter. But most of the times we deal with the direct hiring manager directly. You just use a term that I was just thinking about too, talent acquisition team. Yes, it's the same thing as a recruiter but it's more in-house. Some companies will hire a talent acquisition team to do the recruiting on behalf of that company. So you work for the company but you recruit to bring in new talent. That's why it's called talent acquisition. Gotcha. So Abacus goes out and finds candidates that are looking for a job and you're trying to find a home form with a company. Well, yes and no. So who does the hiring here? Is it the company hiring you or is it the candidate? So the client hires us to find great talent. And when you say that we're looking for candidates who are looking for a job, that's really not accurate. For a recruiter, we know that candidates that are actively looking for a job, they're going to apply to everything that's hosted. Whereas a recruiter, we want to work with candidates that are actually passive looking, passively looking. Okay. Right. So they're not applying to ads all the time. They're actually working full-time, dedicating themselves to their company but maybe they commute too long to their job or maybe they have hit the ceiling and they can't grow anymore in their career. So really we work, 95% of our candidates that we work with are passive lookers. They're currently employed and they trust us to find the next opportunity for them. The other 5%, sure, they're active, they're unemployed. With the unemployment market so low, we don't find too many of those anymore. We have to go after the ones that are actually passively looking and want us to find, want us to partner with them on their job search. So they come looking for you or do you find them through, what would mean to you find these people out? Sometimes an accountant knows that there's a recruiter out there so they may attach themselves with a recruiter and network with that recruiter passively by going to networking events with them or being invited to go and, you know, at the hour or hang out. But most of the time, we as recruiters will have different ways of finding that talent and different ways of reeling that talent in by maybe just asking for their help. Sometimes, you know, reaching out. I'd like your help in finding an accounts payable clerk or something. And the controller that I'm asking might have said, oh, there's someone that used to be on my team, they live so far away, they had to resign, but they were really good. Here's their name. So it gets us to where we have referrals coming in. Do you use LinkedIn at all and some of your tools because other guests I've had in this show have always said, yeah, we use live social media. Yes. LinkedIn is a great tool to reach out to accounting and finance professionals. I also feel like there are some other great tools out there, but some of them, you have to determine which one works best for you and which one you want to invest in because none of them are really free. We do have LinkedIn that we use, but we also are looking at other means like ZIP recruiter or a company called Who Knows which is brand new. So I don't really have enough about every... I know, I know, I just found out about them. They're actually a really good company. So maybe I'll tell the owner of the company to look at our clip here and let them know I gave them a little shout out. Yeah, we'll use our way, please. Yeah, exactly. The thing tech-wise to do is to use it. That's right. So ZIP recruiter Who Knows and LinkedIn as well as Monster Career Builder indeed, I mean, they're all out there, but again, those are going to be usually places you find active as candidates that are applying to everything. They're not really the cream of the crop. I mean, I don't want to say it that way, but what I'm trying to say is if someone's been actively looking and they've been out of a job for longer than six months, it's really harder for them to work with a recruiter because we, you know, we charge a fee and so that client is looking for certain skill sets. Most clients will say I want someone who's currently working or recently out of, you know, recently out of work. So it tends to be a little bit more difficult to place folks that maybe that don't have a degree in accounting or finance or maybe who've been out of work for six months to a year. So I think we tend to try to lean more towards referrals and LinkedIn. Here at White, mostly referrals for you? Yes, mostly referrals, especially Lynn because she's been on the island for so long. Right. She's, I don't know if that's the right word to use, but she's definitely Kama Aina. Yes. And I'm still new to the island, so I'm still going after folks in any way I can, but I want to make sure I find that great talent as well. So as far as paying for your services, the client company would pay and how's that figured out? Yes, the client just pays a percentage of the first year base salary of the candidate that they hire and the candidate doesn't pass anything. So I thought what? I actually have friends who have been looking for a job or thinking about it and I kept mentioning, hey, did you reach out to a recruiter? And their first reaction's always been, I can't afford one. Oh yeah, they don't have to pay anything. It's free to the candidate. It's actually free to the client to interview. So we don't charge the client a fee until the client extends an offer and wants to hire one of our candidates. There's really no risk to use a recruiter. You can interview our candidates. You can interview three of them, five of them free of charge as a client. And then as the candidate, all of our services to the candidate is free. We give resume advice, resume writing advice, interviewing tip. We prepare them for their interviews with our clients to make sure that they're ready and that they're asking the right questions. So as a recruiter, we really partner with both the candidate and the client. And we get to the point where we want our clients to know that while working with a recruiter, we're not going to waste their time. We want them to get great talent. Okay, so you said you worked with the candidate on preparing for the interview. I actually came up with a short list of what else you do and actually everything's here. You're all marketing someone's talent. Do you do the resume writing itself? Is that so important these days? No, we don't do any resume writing, but I would definitely do the resume review. And I usually, if I review the resume and I see typos or grammatical errors, then I would ask that candidate to update their resume with the suggestions that I'm getting. Using spell check and word. Yes, yes. But there's also other things. Let's say someone who's got 10 years of experience, they put their education first on the resume. By now, 10 years of experience, your education really should go underneath your experience if it's all relevant experience, right? Or I've seen people put their high school education on the resume. Now in Hawaii, I found out that that's important because there's a lot of natives who want to know what high school you went to. But on the mainland, not so much. You take it off the resume. And learning that here, it's important to keep it on. Yeah, when I first moved to Hawaii, one of the first questions everybody asked me is, how am I going to say this and butcher it wrong? Because my fridge is not normal for me. What school do you in grad? That was the first question. I've always got to ask because I look like I'm a local. Okay. Then I realized, no, they're not asking about college. They're asking about high school. Yes, they are. I learned that very quickly while I was here. So going back, the resume itself, I know in my profession, my job, I look at resumes as like a ticket to an interview. Yes. How important is that piece of paper or two pages? Well, honestly, if you're working with a recruiter, it really isn't that important because as a recruiter, I can present your background by telling the client about you and what I would impress me when I met you. A lot of times when I'm recruiting passive candidates, they don't even have a resume ready. But their background is phenomenal. They've been on their same job for eight years. They have a CPA license. They were with big four. I happened upon their background and they're interested in an opportunity. I might have to call the client and say, they don't have a resume, but here's their background. Here's what they've done. Here's what they can do. Let's set up an interview for them. It's not always about the resume. It's great to have, and it's really important 99% of the time, but I don't want people out there who hear this interview to think that they have to go and write their resume first before talking with them. Okay. I know we're going to have to go take a break shortly, but when we come back, I definitely want to talk about other services you provide. Okay. I know while using a firm like yours before, we always want to make sure can they pass a background check. Sure. They have this, that. So we'll come in after the break. Okay. Thank you. We're going to take a short break. This is Business of Hawaii. See you back here shortly. Hi, guys. I'm your host, Lillian Cumick, from Lillian's Vegan World. I come to you live every second Friday from 3 p.m. And this is the show where I talk about the plant-based lifestyle and veganism. So we go through recipes, some upcoming events, information about health, regarding your health, and just some ideas on how you can have a better lifestyle, eat healthier, and have fun at the same time. So do join me. I look forward to seeing you. And Aloha. Aloha. I'm Winston Welch, host of Out and About. It's a show that we have every other Monday on Think Back Live here. We explore a variety of topics that are really interesting. We have organizations, events, and the people who fuel them in our city, state, country, and world. We've got some amazing guests on here like all the shows at Think Tech. So if you want to catch up on stuff, tune into my show every other Monday and other shows here on Think Back Live. It's a great place to learn about stuff, to be informed, and if you have some ideas, come on my show. Let's talk about it. See you later. And Aloha. Welcome back. This is Business in Hawaii. With us today in studio is Joy Dooku of Abacus Pro Service. So Joy, before the break, we were talking about services that Abacus provides on top of finding the right candidate. Well, you're doing the vetting of the candidate for each client. So we talked about background checks. We talked about reference checks. Do you do all of those services? Yes. For direct hire placements, we do reference checks. At least three that we typically will hand to the client either right before or right at offer stage. And we do offer background check, a background check service as well. So all of that's a part of the process. Not only do we do direct hire placements, but we can also do a temporary placement or a consulting placement. And with those, we definitely do a background check for the client. And we do reference check for those folks as well. Different industries require different things. I know finance is very, very stressed. Finance is very stressed, and so is healthcare. So we do have two large clients in each of those industries. So for healthcare, for example, there's a drug screening test that's done. And for financial services, it's usually a credit check. So that's done as well. Okay. So for certain industries, we definitely will follow the rules of that industry when it comes to that. I was wondering a question, we don't do credit checks anymore for any background. Well, most financial institutions do because of their federal guidelines. I don't think they use it necessarily as, okay, you know, something happened during the recession. I don't think that's the purpose. I think it's more because of their federal guidelines that they have to follow. We checked the box out. We ran a credit check. Yeah, something like that. Okay. So for the candidate, one of the questions that's always come up for me as a hiring manager in the past was, and someone coached some of these candidates into an interview because I've sat across from people asking questions and I get a blank stare. Well, we conduct a very thorough interview ourselves. When we meet a candidate, we conduct an interview. So if I'm interviewing someone such as yourself and I ask a question, for example, what are your top three strengths and you can't give me an answer within 30 seconds or so, I then coach you on how to answer those questions a little better or how to interview a little better. We might even do a few more questions so that like in a mock interview style so that you get a little bit more comfortable with the interview process. Interviewing can be a little stressful. People get a little anxious at times and so it's important to coach them along the way. And we find that out during our initial interview process. I've come across some great people, great to work with and when you sit across them for an interview interview, it's like all those years of having known them, it's like it's all gone, they're blanking out. Yes, it's difficult sometimes to interview and especially when you're in a panel interview setting, we've got a couple clients that the first interview, you're meeting six people in a room. So sometimes it could be a little overwhelming for the person. We just try to encourage them to take a deep breath, calm down and answer every question as clear and concise as possible. Just thinking about a panel interview with six people right now, I'm starting to fire. It gets me a little nervous too. It's okay, we would prep you first. Okay, you wipe my brow off and make it work. Yeah. Okay, so, Abacus Pros, you guys do the client side, you help with the candidate. So it truly is more about the relationship. It really is. In my 20 years of recruiting experience, I've sometimes placed the same candidate three times because after six years at a company they want something different or more and then I place them again and then six years later again. So I have a few people in my career that I have placed it three or four times. I have a mentality that says I want to meet a candidate early in their career so that I can take them through a number of opportunities along the way. I don't ever call them to pull them out of a company I've placed them with, but just having a relationship long-term. I have a cradle to grave. I know it might sound bad, but cradle to grave mentality where I'm always that partner with them in their career. But I would never recruit them out of somewhere that I've placed them. It would be them that would reach out to me. Right. It might change the grade apart to retirement. Okay, cradle to retirement. Yeah. It doesn't sound as morbid. That's right. Okay, so interview coaching you do and as far as I had a question in mind, oh, pet peeves about recruiting a candidate. Yes. A couple of our pet peeves are when candidates put wrong information on their resume and even though we might ask them about it and they say yes, it's true. If a client digs deeper on that issue or even asks for proof, for example, a degree. You know, someone might put, they have a degree from University of Hawaii in accounting or finance only to find out they didn't get the degree yet. They're like two classes away and they're putting that their finished. It's really important to be very honest on your resume. We also have had people that put a CPA designation behind their name. And maybe they were a CPA one day, but right now if you were to look online, they're not active. So it's really important if you did have that CPA license at one time and it was active, but it's no longer active, it's best to put in parentheses inactive so that no one is trying to look you up and says, okay, that was wrong information. It's really important to be honest on your application and your resume. Other pet peeves of recruiting. Other pet peeves is when we tell a candidate to do something or not to do something for an interview and they don't follow the guidance that we give them and they just fall flat on their face even though they were probably the best candidate for the job. They weren't chosen because they didn't, for example, ask any questions at the end of the interview. So the client doesn't feel like they were engaged enough or really interested enough in the opportunity. The client does say, wow, that person would have been a great fit. I just didn't see their enthusiasm and they didn't ask me any questions even though we told them to. So it's really important to follow our guidance and those are some of our pet peeves. Not being honest on the resume or application and following our guidance when it comes to the dos and dos of an interview. So prior to this interview today with you, I actually looked up other things about recruiting and other recruiters around the country have said, especially here in the United States, about a profile picture. What are your thoughts on having a profile picture? I think a profile picture is really important. I think that it should be professional. What I mean professional, a headshot, not something that's a little risque. It's really not appropriate, especially for LinkedIn. So I think the headshot is this look is very professional. Because it was saying in the United States and even in Hawaii, no one puts a profile picture. But it's becoming the norm now where no other parts of the world, especially in Asia, profile pictures are almost mandatory. It should be, in my opinion. It should be. I think it's important to know who you're talking with. A lot of recruiters nowadays are nationwide recruiters. So a lot of it's own interviews or Skype or FaceTime. So it's important to know who you're talking with and what they look like, how they present themselves. Not that you're going to discriminate because of ethnicity or anything like that, but just how do you present yourself? How is your eye contact? How are you dressed? Yeah, how are you dressed? Every time I see a finance person, if I don't see them in a suit for their profile shot, I don't really trust this person with my money. I'm not going to do my taxes right. A suit might not be appropriate for Hawaii. Maybe on a Loha shirt. With a jacket. With a jacket. Yeah, I'm a guy that likes to dress up. Other pet peeves that came up with a profile picture not being professional enough. And even in today's modern world, not having a LinkedIn profile. Having a LinkedIn profile is very important because it does show that you have attached yourself to a professional social media site. The other thing that's important when it comes to professional social media sites is your email address. Your email address should be professional as well. It's very difficult when you give a client an email address that has a little bit of unprofessional vibe to it. I'll be changing mine right after the show. Okay. Anything else that a candidate should be concerned about? Because recruiting, a lot of people think they have to pay you, not the other way around. Well, I hope that they would hear this interview and know from now on that it's very clear to them that we do not charge a fee to the candidate. The candidate is someone that we are representing and we're assisting and partnering with them in their job. As far as client corporations that hire you are smaller companies. You said you represented a company as one owner all the way to larger corporations here in Hawaii. Do you have a rolling percentage based upon the client's ability to pay you? I think every client has a different cash flow situation and Lynn, as the owner of Advocacy Pro Services, has a really good job negotiating and assisting clients that need some type of break or discount. And it also depends sometimes on volume of hiring needs. All of that is taken into account. Okay, I know. What are some of the companies that you can ask that question? I gave you one. I'll tell you what types of jobs right now are you especially looking to fill? Well, we have a few senior accountant positions here on Island. We have Maui Opportunities Open, senior accountant role there. We have one on the Big Island in the Kailua Kona area. That's also a senior accountant. We have a couple of controller positions open right now. And a few tax professional and audit professional openings right now for CPA firms. Any other types of industries you're looking for? Well, out of all the titles I just mentioned they're all different industries. Some are in health care, some are property management, some are farming. Farming, that's an interesting one. Yeah, there are farms here. I realize that. I'm actually good friends with a couple of ranches here. So I enjoy their beef. Great. Well, we do have various industries that we work with. Mostly in accounting and finance, but we can also help with human resources positions as well as some of the information technology positions as well. Great. Any final words of encouragement for people out there looking for a job or passively looking? Yes, right now, I think the best tip I can give to someone is do not quit your job in this market. Definitely hang tight. Work with a recruiter and work with them passively. Stay focused on your current job until something else comes along that matches your storage criteria. And like I said, usually that just means they want either close to the home, a better work-life balance, better benefits, better opportunity than they have now. It's not that they're bad-mouthing their company because we don't really hear any of that. So I think that's really the best tip. Stay focused on your job, do your best, and partner with a recruiter like me at Orlin at Advocates Pro Services. Thank you. We are out of time. Thank you, Joly, for joining us today and a big thank you to the great production staff here in the studio. If you'd like to be a guest on the show, please email your information to shows at www.thinktechhawaii.com. This is in Hawaii airs every Thursday at 2 o'clock. We are looking forward to seeing you here next week.