 Typography Society of India is a collective of letter form conscious people who are enthusiast about calligraphy, typography, handcrafted letter forms and this is a platform for different people, students, academicians and professionals to interact with each other, share ideas and learn from each other. First, on behalf of the Typography Society of India, I wish all of you a very happy and safe Bivali. The first activity we have is a set of design lecture series and today we have a very esteemed scholar in the area of calligraphy and iconography, Mr. Parameshwar Raju. I would like to thank him for accepting our invitation to be a speaker today and I would like to introduce all of you to this very interesting personality. So, Parameshwar Raju's creativity as a calligrapher, designer, researcher and an artist is celebrated all over the world. In his work, we witness a new style of work which can be called iconic calligraphy. This is the first time I am seeing a person, a calligrapher, using calligraphy to make illustrations and narrate a story through them. It is very interesting to have a look at his work where not only with letter forms but he extends that calligraphy into a narrative style. So Raju engages with a distinguished form of expression that traverses both traditional and contemporary terrains. He is a graduate and applied art from Government School of Art Aurangabad and did his master's in typography and visualization from V.A.M. University, Aurangabad. He is a recipient of many awards including the state award from 40, Sriramulu Telugu University, Phoenix Art Festival, etc. He had a long career in advertising with many reputed agencies including Mudra Communications, Everest, Lintas, etc. He is also a member of our advisory board for the Typography Society of India. If you look at his illustrations, you will see how beautifully calligraphic style and calligraphy can be used for iconography. He has developed a very unique style and he uses his research and his deep knowledge in Indian grid structures in his work and he develops a lot of visual styling and using different kinds of brushes and nibs and different textures and he reveals a story about it and last so many years he has done a lot of research in the area of traditional grid structures in India, in Indian craft, art and design and he is going to share that knowledge with us today and I'd like to share this wonderful image with you. This is one image he sent me and I was privileged to get this from him on the day of Teacher's Day, on the occasion of Teacher's Day. You can see how using a plant nib he has created a wonderful illustration, a painting in which a teacher and a student is shown and today he is going to talk to us about traditional grid systems of India. Over to you, Mr. Parameshwar Raju sir. Namaskaram. Today I would like to share with you the knowledge of the traditional Indian grid used by the craftsmen in India. It has been a practice in India. The children at the age of five are made to listen to the sounds of nature, see the flowers, the mountains, the skies, the wind, feel the wind, the water, the sounds of the streams and then they're initiated into the basics of the craft practiced by the parents. In India, the grid was always a part of tradition and it has been practiced with the faith to the extent of religious doctrine. It has a large variety in form and application. In the past few centuries, the meaning of grid has shifted from interface between physical and super physical worlds to interface between physical world and its perception by the rational cognition. Process of creation is an initiation and a sharing knowledge of the craft and information gathered and referred from nature. Listening, seeing, feeling, understanding and experiencing the physical forms and worshiping this source of creation gave an immense joy of being part of it. It was a source of wonder and an aesthetic which made living a wonderful experience. Life in nature and its adaptation to its surroundings was a visual experience. This knowledge led to create things. The basics were from nature, the geometry to the existence and the functions of the five elements made creating of objects with added functionality a joyful experience. From making of houses and shrines to toys for children to weaving to cultivation and gathering of food to making of vessels for cooking and using fire as a source of energy have a reference in nature. Looking for an answer or an idea is unique. People in various geographical regions have created and adapted things for the requirements which are related and refer to their surroundings. Hence the change of aesthetic and functionality of things created. There is so much creation around us. Being part of this creation helps in understanding nature better. One tends to look inside oneself and share that experience. The experience is different hence the variation in the same idea which makes creating an object exciting. This started a process of great width and within the communities. The exercise in this set is creating a product and images from shared information from nature. I have tried to use this aesthetic in blending it into the narrative of nature. We start with circle and line. The circle is the feminine principle and it makes you look towards the center. It is static and it has space. The line is the masculine principle. It is not creative until used. It is dynamic free running into space and unlimited or infinite. The line and circle brings one to a conscious state. The mind is able to see boundaries and returns an awareness of self. There are two ways of seeing seeing in a linear way and seeing together as a whole. The circle is the universe. The breath of life is contained in its form. The circle consists of a center and has a boundary. The center is the support called the Bindu and is stable like consciousness. The circle is divided into two by a vertical line and then into four by a horizontal line while the resulting four radius and the four corners of the universe and the four directions northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. The line is the support of the composition on which one builds the image which corresponds to the elements and to the gods. Straight lines are like the rays of light as the creator divided the world. From these intersecting lines a square is formed and the diagonal representing the winds. The points are added. A square is formed. The square is Ganesha. The Kilpinjara binds and energizes the space and links to its surrounding spaces. The idea of the Trihuta. The triangle represents the concepts of fire and humanity, verticality and characteristic of the human species. It is also believed to be the axis on which the universe evolves and the links between earth and human mankind and divinity. The union of these two opposites of fire and water that creation arises and it is by their interaction that is ceaselessly vitalized and maintained. This symbol is known as the symbol of attraction of opposites or the Akarshani Yantra. The grid is a matrix of five lines by five making 16 identical squares or rectangles intersected by two diagonals. This recalls the original creation of the universe when Purusha the cosmic form sacrificed himself into 16 parts. Here you'll find the markings of fire, earth, water, air and space. Now I'll take you to a reference to these elements in the five temples in Tamil Nadu. The first one being a Kambureshvara in Kanchi which represents earth. Where Parvati comes down to earth to worship Shiva. The next is Jambukeshwara in Sri Rangam represents the water element. Arunachaleshwara in Arunachalam represents the fire element. Sri Kalahastheshwara at Sri Kalahasthi representing air where it is believed that the spider, the snake and an elephant looked after the Shiva Lingam in different periods of time. Dillai Nataraja at Chidambaram representing space. At this temple there's an empty Garbhagudi where Shiva is worshipped as space in front of which is a small tree shoot on which is a garland of Bilbapathras. Coming back to the grid, the bottom row of four squares from the foot to the knee represents earth. The next from the knee to the navel represents the reproductive energy. The third from the navel to the neck is the area of flight breadth and the top from the neck to the crown is the area of divine light. Coming to Bindu the basic element. Bindu and its living areas when Bindu expands in space in a lima surface becomes a circle and then when it expands in space it becomes a sphere so the circle and sphere are basics. Formation of a triangular space is with intersection of three lines and when these three lines move away from each other you get a triangle and these triangles are Shiva and Shakti or it is fire and water and when they combine they form the Akarshani Yantra. The combination of Shiva and Shakti or water and fire represents Ganesha in the square form. So whenever we start working on a given space we consider that as a holy space or a divine space. These are the five basic shapes representing the gods. Devi is an inverted triangle, Shiva is a vertical triangle, Surya is a circle, Ganesha is a square and the disc is Vishnu. The string and the nail. In the Indian tradition we use a string and two nails for drawing the basics. So here we see how with that we can draw a circle. Here it is creation of the polygon, the triangle. Creation of an equilateral triangle. These are all basic geometric forms. Creation of a square. In the Indian tradition we are taught to go into the forest, to the mountains, to the riversides. Just to see nature, how the construction of various elements in nature are from the leaves to the flowers, to the rocks, the way the water flows, to feel the presence of energies, to feel the emotions, what we relate to. And here are a few examples of flowers which can be used as a reference point for design construction. Now we are trying to mimic what we saw in nature. Say here the example is flowers. So we're taking a four petal flower and we're seeing how it can be geometrically drawn. So we have the vertical line connecting the centers. Then you have another horizontal line connecting the centers of the two circles. The combination to make four petals from the overlapping circles. Then the construction of the square in the overlapping circles. Dividing the square into half diagonally and construction of the octagon by drawing their dynamic square. The two static squares and the two dynamic squares. The outer square is divided into four and then to 16 smaller parts. The space division of the octagon in which is inscribed the square in a circle. The eight spaces formed represent the eight directions. In figure one the circle is dynamic and in motion. The repetition of the dynamic circles shows strength of the given space. An equilateral triangle is formed with the third circle drawn with the center point at the intersection of the two circles. As the circles move apart touching the circumference of each of the circles another triangle is formed. A combination of four same sized circles. A grid of nine equilateral triangles and its multiples. This suggests the basics of how our ancestors trade learned from nature and started using it. These are very simple exercises but this can become very complicated as you go into temple constructions or design you know creating bar sleeves and designs. This is the construction of a hexagon and its possible repetitions. Intersection of six circles which become the centers for another set of six circles. Then you have the construction of a hexagon. This is the construction of a five pointed star which represents earth. Construction of a 10 pointed star overlapping of two pentagons and then construction of a 10 pointed star resulting in a flower pattern. Now this up we start developing spaces and then we start using different decorative elements in these spaces to create beautiful mandalas. The measure of five. The potter on his spinning wheel makes beautiful shapes of pots and each pot has a proportion of one is to four, two is to three, three is to two and four is to one. These are because of the five fingers and the variations are one is to two is to two, two is to two is to one, three is to one is to one and one is to one is to three. Here are a few references of pots made for the temple of Jagannath. These are cooking pots in the Jagannath temple with the Shanku Chakra marked on it, is the water pot, another water pot, the third different style of and that is the Gulak where you put in small change so that during festivities that money could be offered in the temples. Now comes the rhythmic measure. Rhythmic measure is the measurement of the human body with the expanse of a palm from the thumb to the middle at the top of the middle finger. The length of the face within figure one length of the kai chan. Kai chan is in Tamil where the kai is hand and the chan is hand spread corresponding length of the face and the hand is the measurement of the body in terms of the fingers, the phalanges, the face in the shape of Tamil letter V and the mango shaped face, the egg shaped face and the season shaped face. I shaped like a fish, I shaped like a lotus, waist following the shape of a damru, waist shaped like the vajram, the arm shaped like a bamboo, the belt also shaped like the head of the bull. It is considered in traditional Indian sculpture that the gods are created with elements from nature is actually indirectly worshiping nature than the god forms. Coming to mukku. Mukku is the rangoli. The mukku is considered representation of the universe on the on earth. So wherever you draw the mukku is representing that universe in that particular spot to make it energized. They have different names and these are some of the very old mukku designs which all have a name. This is Chavanthi pattern of chrysanthima. This is swastika with lotus pattern. This is the Navikamala pattern. This is Chandu pattern of the bull. This is Ghatradha pattern or the bundle. This is taken from Maharashtra. This is Anantasana pattern, the seed of the Ananta flowers. This is Vaishvadeva Kunda pattern or the fireplace. That's where the homums are done after they draw this figure. Now coming to the Yantras. These are symbols which are used. The first one is static, the bindu. The second is expression of bindu through the radius of desire. The vertical line is desire, activity and dynamic. The horizontal is stability, shortest distance between two points. There's a static bindu and there is another dynamic sum. There's the upward movement, the downward movement, addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, expression, dynamic. Static earth, dynamic. Preservation, balance between static and dynamic. Districted expression is static. Districted expression, the top is equilibrium. The vertical triangle is expression, dynamic, upward movement, fire, mail. The downward pointed triangle is downward movement, water, female. The Akashini Yantra condensed is equilibrium, dynamic and the non-condensed is equilibrium, static and the five-pointed star, the earth. Clockwise movement of creation is swastika. The flipped swastika is counter-clockwise movement, destruction and dissolution. The swastika with diagonal lines and the four dots is symbol of form in Ganesha. The next one is om in swastika. A circle is space and the other is expansion. Expression, manifestation, as they call it, we have the circle with eight petals, each petal showing one particular direction. In Ayantra, east is at the top and west at the bottom, south at the right and north at the left. This is based on the marking of directions based on the sun. It's very interesting that when it is, when the markings are done on the ground, a pole is fixed on the earth and then they wait for the sun to rise, singing songs, singing bhajans and playing a rhythmic beat. As the sun rises, they worship the sun and they start marking the shadow of the pole to get the western direction. Then they mark at noon the shadow where it falls and then as the sun sets, they mark the east. It is never a straight line and it is a curve and this curve keeps changing daily because of the direction of the sun and the earth is never the same. That's the reason why we have interesting things happening in various temples because that is the day when the temple was built. The construction of the Ayantra. Now, Ayantra is not something which is very holy or auspicious. Ayantra is basically a design, a drawing. This is the Ganesh Ayantra. Similarly, we have Yantras for various gods and Yantras for various gods and these are also used as measurements and these are also used as elements for the five representing five elements. Arriving at the final reconstruction, the square representing Ganesha. We call it Ganesha because it's supposed to be the divine space and how we put elements on this to create design. It's further divided vertically and horizontally by segments F, H and E, G. These represent the directions east, west and north south. These are further divided diagonally by segments D, B and A, C. These represent the other four directions. The intersection point is the Bindu. When there are two points, they tend to attract each other or there is an unknown line which is reacting between those two points which we call as the energy lines. These energy lines between the points are joined. These energy lines between the points is joined to identify the flow of energy between the points and then you draw a circle. Same with the dot of the square is marked for the visible area. This is based on the human condition where we tend to see in a circular space. When we focus at a point, we only see that point and the little circular space around it but the rest of it is out of focus. That's the reason why we draw the circle to mark the area which is visible to the eye. The following arcs F, E, H, H, G and GF are to help move the vision towards the outer area of space and F, E, H, G and GF are also connected to mark the flow of energy and to contain it. A half circle, same width as that of the square is placed facing the sides of the square forming a four petal flower. This is the space with the maximum hot points and the four hot points between the petals hold the energy levels together. These are four circles, half the width of square are placed inside the square as shown. These are the visible areas in the quarters A, F, O, E, F, B, G, O, E, O, H, D and O, G, C, H. They also face the directions of northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. Similarly, four more circles of the same size are placed facing east, west, north, south and center. Now instead of four circles, you could also have three circles taking reference of a three petal flower. This is the yantra, the grid for space division and management of space. To this, a layer is added to divide the square into smaller spaces of nine into nine units. This helps in managing the hot spots in the given space. You could also work on any number of units divided into any number of units. I generally use 30 by 30 because that is that I found to be very easy to work. Each of these squares could be further divided into 10 by 10 or 9 by 9 so that you could get more details in those given spaces. Now drawings based on the square grid. That's Durga and that's how it looks once it's finished. That's Matsya, Chamundeshwari, this Garuda and Anandthasayana. Coming to my calligraphic work, this is Buddha under the people tree, Ganesha and other people playing musical instruments. That's representing Balaji, Venkateshwara in Tirupati with Hanuman and Garuda. That's Nandi, the bull. On the hump, they put a snake and they sing bhajans and take the bull all around the village for people to worship. This Krishna, the cowherd, that is Adinatha. Adinatha is represented with an animal, the Nandi, that's the Dasavatharas, that Shiva in the form of lambs and different Nandis sitting all around. Now coming to nips. These are the nips I use and these are the vessels I use to hold the ink. I use them so that they don't spill and this round container at the bottom has four projections so that the surface of the container doesn't touch the paper so I can move it where there's no lines and then take it very close to the place where I work. This is how it looks from the top and this is one thing which is so sturdy that it does not move one and is not spilling and you could actually take it very close to your work area. The nips need to be cleaned immediately. It can't be left dipped in for long periods of time so immediately it needs to be cleaned with a tissue paper, wet tissue so that the ink goes off completely. Avoid using warm water because it spoils the nip and don't keep it in ink for very long time. This is the container I use for cleaning my nips. The reason I use a metal container is to hear the sound, the nice tingling sound when I wash the nips when the nip touches the surface of the container. If it is a flat sound that means the nip is not clean but only when you get that nice sound that you know the nip is clean. Now I'd like to share how the products can be designed using this square grid. Usually what happens is we all as human beings have an aesthetic sense. It varies a little bit from person to person and what we are actually doing is by using the grid we are trying to tune in everyone to the same aesthetic as possible closer to nature. These are mobile shrines. You see how the grid is used to divide the spaces and mark. This is how they look. You open it up to have a small medallion with a guard which is worshipped. These are water vessels, vessels for panchamberat, the kala shams, the jambo for milk and water. Usually what happens is the puja room can spill a lot of water. So what I've done is I've used thick vessels and the lid is also very heavy. This is a combination of bronze and copper. This is a lamp with a lid. These are small lamps but they light up for about three hours. Another lamp. There's a multi wick lamp with a garuda on it so you know it is Vaishnav. If there's a trishul then it is Shaivite. The Agarbati stand, the dhubh stand, Arti with a stand, the vessel for flasks and offerings. This is another vessel for flasks and offerings. There's the shatkam where the feet of the god is marked, generally used in the puja room for prayers or to get blessed. There's the ganta. Jaraganta is a plate sort of an instrument which is struck by a wooden stick. It has a small string to hold and it has got a very peculiar shape which emits out vibrations which clears the mind completely of any thoughts. Then the Ariti stand. The peacock is there in the center to represent that it is being used in the Jagannath temple of Puri. Kanchamur Thala. It has the markings of the Shanku Chakra. The Shanku is on the top and the Chakra is at the bottom. These are very traditional vessels used in North Andhra Pradesh and Orissa and parts of Bengal and Assam too. The Guinea with the Bhatti glasses, Sembu, Goti, this is the Ghora, Pujo, Bindi, whatever. And that's the Gulak in Kappa. Offerings which are collected over a period of time kept in the puja room and offered in the temples. So these are some of the designs which could be done in the grid, not only used for creating products but it also can be used for creating fonts, for logos and trademarks, for interiors and for even architecture because these grids are used for temple architecture. You could have your own grids. You can create your own grids using your own reference material from nature and make your designs look very unique and different. Enjoy designing. Have a good time. Namaskaram. Kanchamur Thala. It has the markings of the Shanku Chakra. The Shanku is on the top and the Chakra is at the bottom. These are very traditional vessels used in North Andhra Pradesh and Orissa and parts of Bengal and Assam too. Okay, so I think Facebook Kulaiya was finished. YouTube is having I think next two minutes time. So there is a 30 second gap for us to go live. I think Amogh will tell us when are we going live. Yeah, you can go ahead. You can go ahead. It's like. Okay. Raju sir, thank you very much for the wonderful talk. We are all looking forward to hearing about the traditional grid systems. I will start the question. The first one is, do you make, it is from Tarun Deep Giridhar, Professor at NID Ahmedabad. Do you make your own inks? Please share. Also is the container of some special metal. I don't use my own inks because it's very cumbersome and takes a lot of time. I use Vincere and Newton and when I don't have those things, then I get into pigments. The vessels I use are traditional vessels made of Kansha that is the bell metal because when you clean the nib, if it hits the side surface, then you get a that sound. So when it hits the side, you get a nice tingling sound and you know that the water has moved in between the nib. So that's how you get a idea that you're so engrossed in working and cleaning. You really don't know whether the nib is clean or not. It's only that sound makes you know that yes, it is clear. Okay. Another is about calligraphy education. What is your take on this that the need or how is it taught in design schools or applied art institutions? This is a tricky question because if you really want to learn calligraphy as an art form, it is a different thing. But if you practice calligraphy, it actually improves your thinking capacity and you start being more concentrated in terms of what you're doing because you have to be very meticulous. That helps in other areas of work. You tend to be more meticulous. You tend to actually see what you're doing. So it helps in other areas of work also. Now calligraphy is something which makes you very meditative and gives you peace of mind. So in between when you're doing work, you just do a few scribbles. Then you can go back to work again. Now about calligraphy education. Sadly, what has happened is we follow the western method of calligraphy. Even when we do our own traditional Indian calligraphy, we tend to mimic the west in terms of how they do their calligraphy or how they place their alphabets. One main thing what we need to understand is we have a calligraphic practice, maybe much older than what was in west, but the only thing is we have forgotten about it. All the handwritten texts are nothing but calligraphic works of art. We have had two people working on apotheos. One was an artist who used to paint, who used to visualize and draw the figures, and there used to be one person who would actually do the writing part. If you see the old miniature paintings, you'll find that the artist who has done it, his handwriting would be pathetic. You know, he's very difficult to read, but he does lovely drawing. But at the same time, there are a few pieces where you see that the calligraphy or the handwritten part, the text behind the painting, is equally beautiful. So it is actually, I think it depends on how the person has taken over in terms of doing both the works of writing the poti and the pictorial portion of it. And what is your viewpoint on this calligraphy training or at least introduction to calligraphy? For school children because otherwise there is a lot of this ignorance about calligraphy in Indian languages. This is, I think, because we have stopped using the fountain pen earlier at least used to be a certain method that teachers used to teach us how to write. But as the fountain pen has gone, we started using ball pens and gel pens and things like that. So we are really not bothered about the character of what your writing is good. But 100% it will help these children to concentrate because it is an whole process of exercise of cleaning the nibs, filling ink. You know that little bit of two minutes or three minutes of the whole process of cleaning the nib, filling ink and putting it back again and then scribbling a little bit before you write. It gives you a pause in your work. That is one. And the second thing is it gives you an understanding of how to keep your things clean. It is a subtle information which has been fed into your brain over a period of time. And calligraphy does help because what I've seen is people who practice calligraphy from younger age, their understanding to things is slightly different because they see things in a different way. Okay, would you please elaborate on that? How do they see things in a different way? See because what happens is they are forced to do a certain exercise. The ink has gone over. They need to clean it. Otherwise it cannot write. They'll have to spill ink on the paper for it to write. So this is and then they'll clean the nib. They'll fill ink. This is a process which is stuck in the mind that you need to do a certain thing to do certain work. So indirectly what happens is whenever they're doing some work, they tend to see the other things which are also required to do that work. It is a very subconscious thought which is put into the mind. Would you please share your own experience? How did you get into calligraphy and... Oh, that's interesting. I think I studied in a Saini school, Saini school Amaralti Nagar in Tamil Nadu. I couldn't join the services. So my father thought I should do something very different, not go to the regular colleges. So he put me in an art school. I didn't know that I was joining an art school. He joined the art school. But what happened was after I joined the art school, I realized that it really made a lot of things interesting because I was taught in a Marathi medium. It was a Marathi medium school and English medium. I was the only student who had a problem. But I enjoyed the classes because there used to be long classes taken in the native language. And then when I would go and ask my teacher as to what it was all about, they would give me a gist of what actually they taught. And that made me go to the library and read her books. So my education has been in terms of what I learned in the class, what I could understand the long lectures, plus to understand it a little more better in a language which I knew, I had to go to the library. So my information is much more different from what the others had. Over a period of time, I started enjoying the work because it was creating something new. I was lucky to have four professors who actually got me into this design and understanding what it is all about. My first teacher was Mr. A.K. Ramavarma of coaching. He taught me actually the simplification he would show us how to sketch in school. And he would say, how if you one dot a few lines here and there would become a man and things like that. And nature. So he taught us to see, because of the way he used to sketch, we used to see nature in a very different way altogether because seeing it in simplified forms was more fun. When I came to the art school, Professor S.V. Pencer taught me the craft of writing the Dev Nagu script. And I learned the Pothi writing from him. And then we had Professor Lokhande who taught me how to see, because there's a lot of difference between what is good and what is bad. Usually what happens was we see a printed version of a design and we think it's beautiful because it's printed well. But we don't really see whether it is good or bad. And to understand whether it's good or bad takes a lot of time and understanding. And if you're logical, then it becomes so much more easier to figure out whether it's functional or non-function. Then we had another professor, Inglay, who is head of painting department. He used to paint with rollers, big from small rollers to very huge rollers. And one day he showed me his sketchbook where he used to sketch only with a calligraphy pen, because it mimics the way he painted. So we can actually try and work out our own methods, our own ways of using the nib. You really don't have to use it only to write the alphabet. So there's one question. How is calligraphy in Indian languages different from what is done in English? Yeah. Now in English, what has happened is you have one strange character called the capital letter. And then you have the lower case. We have the upper case and the lower case. In Indian languages, we don't have the upper case. We just have the regular body and the script. In English calligraphy, what happens is you tend to enlarge the capital letter and then try and fill letters all around. In the Indian scripts, it's purely to write a text. If you don't see the manuscripts and if you compare calligraphy manuscripts in the West are similar to the manuscripts in Indian languages. Only thing is ours are not so decorative, but in English they are very, very decorative with the Western context. In the Indian context, we have a visual to illustrate what has been written, which is not so much in the West. And then the decoration of the manuscript is different in the Indian conditions and in the West. Indian conditions, it is very, very decorative without the alphabet involved in it. But whereas in the Western or the English calligraphy manuscripts, you'll find even the decoration is around an alphabet. Sir, when did you start using the calligraphic style for the iconography like a painting? Because generally calligraphy tools, generally calligraphers tend to get overwhelmed by the letter forms, but you have gone to a very unique part. See what happened is first thing is my language is not Hindi. So it is a different language for me, though I learned to read and write. So I thought, why should I use the grammar of what the way the teachers teach you? They said, it has to be a vertical stroke. It has to be a particular curve. Then only it makes sense. I said, why not I do something completely different. So I started writing it in a different way, but it still read what it was supposed to mean. So I created a very different style of writing the poetry. Then I realized that I need to also do an illustrative portion. Why should I do an illustration which is completely different from the calligraphic style? So I started using the calligraphic tool to basically draw things. So I started off with ohms. And then over that slowly, you know, it became stylized to human figures and then it became a narration. Then I added the text with the illustrations and then I stopped the calligraphy completely in terms of the written word and I used the tools only for drawing. So that was the transition. So from 82 to 2003, I've been on 2000, till 2000 I was doing the calligraphic script. I mastered it. And then I left it at the tent around 2000. And then I got into the drawing mode. So is there any, what is your methodology? You follow, do you follow anything like that when you create, for example, the Krishna image which you showed? Yeah. Or the teacher's day when you showed, you know, teacher and the student? Yes, yes. Now my references, I've been traveling quite a lot. I've been traveling but till I got into advertising, much of the time I used to travel and later after 2006 I've been traveling and trying to generally get references and, you know, for my grids to understand the grid better. So I used to travel and I used to go see houses of various people, how they've been made, how the temples have been made, how temples are different from district to district. The basic construction is different. And if you go further like north of a state to southern state, you know, say in Andhra itself, Northern Andhra has got the Oriya touch. The Southern Andhra has got the Tamilian touch. We have the Huisala touch in parts where Karnataka is bordering us. So we have a different style of working and then that's when I realized that what I was told that nature is more important because these have got completely references to what is available in nature in those particular places. So division of spaces which is most important can be identified in these places very uniquely. And the five temples I was talking about in the presentation, they have a lot of references of the elements, how they're depicted, the fire, water, earth and things like that. So it's a learning lesson to go to the temple and then just enjoying seeing the figures and how it's been divided. Much of my reference points has always been the temples. So even the drawings what I do give a very structural look to it because I try to imitate the shadow with the nip and then the empty space is the other surface. So when I'm working in those lines plus the character of the nip itself into thin thick and thin line, I think makes it all more interesting. And this temple architecture itself has a lot of relation with the grid which you showed. It is all based on the same basic grid and what is your observation on that? It's been interesting because what has happened is culturally we are so different people from place to place and not only place to place in the same state itself, community to community, that you find say for example a cobbler uses the same grid to cut the leather. But a person in Tamil Nadu cuts the leather in a different way, the same person in the border area of Andhra cuts it in a different way. The duels are same, but it's just the angle in which the cut is different. Similarly in architecture we have, it's actually quite interesting because they went into space like there's this small thing which I worked on and see this. Now this is a glass cube. What I've done is I've actually engraved the grid on it. So the understanding is to, suppose you put the stand to this and put an image, you know exactly what is the, at what distance is the small unit is easier to expand or reduce or to see the visual area of that figure in that height. So this is very interesting because in the temple architecture you have the same thing, what grid is drawn as a floor is also on the vertical wall and mimicking it is being so easy for them to do. Similarly this can be used in houses in terms of having a grid, in an optical grid. So you know exactly what to put on the wall at what level. Because in this, the concept of square and cube and that space, three-dimensional space, it has got a lot of importance in the Indian classical dance form source. That's true. That's true because what they have done is the figure and the joints, usually the joints of a body and what are the maximum possibility of, say the wrist cannot bend beyond a certain area but on the other side it stops at a certain area. But because somebody is more flexible, if they tend to bend it more further down or either way it looks odd. So what has happened is in the dances or in the music industry, whatever, when they tried the notes and all, they follow a certain pattern instead of extending it but they start repeating it at the shorter interval so that the melody you know it changes and then you enjoy that because it has got that rhythmic pattern. In the dance form or even in theater, what happens is when you do a stage, this is what I learned when I was in Avangapad, we were attending stage lighting and that's when I realized that there's so much importance to the height of the person who is on the stage and to related elements which are kept all around. So then one day Pula Deshpande said, no look I'm sitting on one chair and I'm just reading it out narrating a story and it looks interesting because I'm just lit and the rest of it is dark. It may not be like that but that's the way people are tending to actually think whatever and narrating their thinking in their own terms. So there's a lot of link between all this. And over the last few years you might have noticed that there is a large number of youngsters, a very good thing, large number of youngsters in India who have taken up calligraphy very seriously. And it's so refreshing to see their work, especially in the last two years. So what do you have to say in the world of advice to them, the budding calligraphy? The first thing is they should stop going to the fonts, go to the net and then copy from that. There's one thing they should not do. The second thing is we need to learn the classical scripts. There's no doubt about it because that gives an understanding of the tool because those tools were made for those scripts. So you need to understand the tool and for what it was actually made for. And once you understand that script and understand it better then you should start having your own style of work. Every person has got a different way of writing and that writing, if it is done with a calligraphy, creates a new font or a new style by itself. And it should be more for pleasure than if it is not an art school student, it's more for pleasure. But if it's for an art school student, it is more to understand spaces. How will it help if an earlier introduction to calligraphy is done at school level? It'll be nice. It'll be nice because what happens is it is not calligraphy itself, but it should be also related with drawings or something like that or carpentry because that gives a different understanding and it somehow links. If you just teach calligraphy what happens is they think it is additional wasting of time. It should not be that way. And the parents have to be educated that it is very important to do calligraphy also. And what inspired you to take up this research into the traditional Indian grid systems? Yeah, it was very crazy because whatever I learned in school and whatever books I referred, they were all western. We don't have any Indian design thing and very few books available, which I got to know about them much later, which I wish our libraries taught those books. It so happened that one day my grandfather wanted me to take him to Ellora and then he told me whatever I was talking was rubbish and then he taught me what the Indian grid was all about. And after that he left our home to stay with my uncle for some time, but we lost him. So after that, because I didn't have full information, I started researching as to what this person was talking about. Until then, we were not told about a family background. We just kept, it was not told to us because they wanted us to live in a different world together. And that's when he told me about how the family was involved in art and literature. And the temple, the idol which is worshiped in the temple of Puri, the Utsava Murthy, that is done by my great grandfather when it was damaged. So when he gave that reference, then I started, you know, actually researching towards what was the possibilities, why did he say and what was its use? And then I realized that it is there all over the tracks. Everyone uses the same thing knowingly or unknowingly. Okay, so we'll come to the conclude here. So thank you very much, sir, for knowledge with us. It was a wonderful experience. On behalf of the entire family of typography society, I would like to thank you for accepting our invitation and for blessing us with your talk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Namaskaram.