 Hi everyone well Hi everyone and welcome to today's event our round table with the open organization ambassadors Today's panel is part of open organization week at Red Hat time when we're celebrating the anniversary of Jim Whitehurst's book the open organization My name is Brian Barron's housing and I'll be your host for the panel today Three years ago this week Jim Whitehurst published the open organization and at the end of the book Jim stresses that his remarks should be read not as some kind of definitive statement But really as it's sort of an opening volley in an ongoing Conversation about the impact that open values Continue to have on the way that we work the way that we manage and the way that we lead and Jim closes the book with an Invitation and I think it's just worth quoting. He says the potential is limitless Which is why I invite you to join us on this journey by engaging in the discussions on open source comm He writes there is a special page Jim says related to the themes of this book And we encourage you in the spirit of letting the sparks fly To share your thoughts and opinions with us on how you think we can all lead and work better in the future We look forward to hearing from you there and with that he closed the book And I I really loved that invitation, but I was also a little miffed by it I've been working on open source comm for red hat since 2011 and I knew of no special page On open source comm that covers specifically open organizations and open leadership So as these things typically work in open organizations, we immediately said about building Said said special page in anticipation of the book's launch in June of 2015 and three years later We've published literally hundreds of articles on open source comm slash open dash Organization and I do think it's a very special page But as you might suspect what makes it special is not what's going on in That section, but what's going on around it not necessarily the page itself and supporting that special page is a very special community thinkers writers consultants and advocates who share the book spirit and have accepted Jim's invitation to gather at open source comm To continue the conversation and over the past three years that community has grown immensely thanks to Expert initial planning and groundwork from senior community evangelist Jason hibbits and the open source comm team And it's given rise to a really unique group of sharp talented and very vocal advocates now known as the open organization ambassadors and The open organization ambassadors are the community's most invested engaged and powerful Participants and over the years they've hailed from Germany Sweden Ireland Singapore Japan and multiple corners of the United States and they've really built something truly wonderful at open source comm For starters, they've helped turn Jim single book into a five book series publishing a new volume every six months So I'll let you think about that for a second without fail over the last three years They've composed community resources including the open organization definition and the open organization maturity model Then other organizations can use those if they're interested in the ways that openness Can transform the way their organization operates? They've spoken at conferences. They've held panels and they've consulted with others and Counseled them really in the importance of thinking and working openly and today We're lucky to have three of them join us for this lunch and learn event and with us today is Ambassador Lara Hilliger. She's co-founder of the we are open co-op who's and she's currently working with Greenpeace At Greenpeace requests. I should stress to help the organization become more open She's also a member of the German national roller derby team. Just want to put that out there, too Ambassador Jen Kelschner is with us today. She's founder and CEO of consulting agency LDR 21 or leader 21 Which specifically coaches? organizations on principles the open principles and works with teams and leaders to build agile environments through open principles and Ambassador Angela Robertson is with us today. She's a manager at Microsoft Who's writing on open leadership and leadership development has appeared numerous times at open source calm And she's currently composing a series of open organization guides on leadership Which will be included in the forthcoming new edition of the open organization leaders manual Welcome to all of you and thanks very much for being here I want to shut up in just a moment and let them talk to you about the community But I do want to say stress one more one more thing that I think is really important for the Red Hatter's listening to this conversation today Red Hats mission literally starts our literally states that we strive to be Catalysts in communities, you know to date we've really interpreted that mandate to encompass software development communities But as the global conversation begins to shift And as people begin to understand that technologies are already cultural and cultural then the cultural is always already technological The work of the ambassadors is becoming more and more important to generating those cultural innovations That are driving progress today, you know, they are in other words The ambassadors are our upstream community of cultural Innovators and like we do with software teams. We've played a role in catalyzing that community But that community transcends us right it's bigger than we are And I for one consider us very lucky to have helped play that role over the past three years So we'll turn to questions now at just a reminder to everyone That's watching that we are live on blue jeans today and you can submit your questions for our panel of ambassadors Just type them into the chat box as you listen and I'll make sure that our panelists get them So without further ado for our first question for panelists today I want to start by talking about community in general Why is participating in a community committed to a concept like something abstract like open organizations? Why is that important to you specifically but also for anyone in general? What's the power in other words of a a community driven approach to the topic I'll jump in Great. That's okay. Thanks, Jen. Uh, no problem. Um Big advocate for community and I learn about it all the time and I think that for me my takeaway for it is that Being able to talk about open or openness or whatever the world wants I mean that that's the language we all use in this community But thinking about how you bring other people into a community that aren't are not familiar with it Is really important But I think for me the community aspect is it sharpens all of us So we get more points of view more perspectives more levels of experience more applications of the behavior behaviors and the principles So that we can start sharing on those things So I have a very specialized way that I work what my experience is in But if I don't say work with laura or with angela or other people in the community I'm lacking Really expanding my own understanding of open or how to even apply it in ways that we haven't yet thought of So for me That's what's so important about having the discussions in community and not thinking that My understanding is the only way because if I don't hear applications or Ways it's affecting and impacting other parts of the community. Then I don't really have a full understanding of it Yeah, any thoughts? Yeah, I I just wanted to say that for me it's Participating in this particular community has been really helpful because I find a lot of solidarity as Jen says You know we speak about these ideas in one way, but there are a lot of other communities that are using different words and having somebody to talk to That actually deeply understands this this topic and the steam Is is really helpful in a lot of different ways, but in particular I think that as In in our work, we're sort of socially and culturally inclined to understand a command and control system And the ideas of the open organization are not about command and control, but rather about community and collaboration So when when you find yourself out there in the world and in a situation where you're sort of pushing against These cultural structures that that we all understand Having a group of people that that understand the theme to to sort of help you push against those structures in a supportive way Has been massively helpful for me It's great. It's great Yeah Sure, what I love about our group is that we come from all different backgrounds and kind of our day jobs might be different But our core principles are around this open organization And I find that so refreshing Because it doesn't matter where we are what we're doing kind of how we do it is is Something that we can talk about and learn from each other And I really do learn from listening to the different examples and experiences that this team shares and reading the post online And the discussion that happens in the comments So it's really about breaking through my own bubble that might I might live in and and really staying open in an ongoing way Yeah, well that that's a great segue into something else I wanted to ask about which is sort of this continual learning like having a culture of a culture of continual learning You know in your travels, you know, your meeting your engagements with with other folks Presentations you've given and folks you've met in the audience afterwards You know, how have people responded to the open organization concept and the message, you know, what resonates with people What's perplexing to to people still and what helps you connect with Others when you talk about it and what challenges, uh, you know, do you face? I can talk Maybe you go ahead first, Angela. Go ahead. Go ahead Okay, I noticed that somebody's commenting on my audio is please continue. I'm gonna aim to improve it Okay, okay So back to the question is what I've learned is that, um, can you repeat the question? I think the audio part kind of threw me. I'm sorry. I was Of course. No, that's fine. That's fine. I was asking about, you know, sort of continual learning and asking about, um, you know, the Your travels and meetings and presentations and other engagements You've had with folks around the concept of the open organization Just asking, you know, how folks in your travels have responded to the notion of the open organization What resonates with people What perplexes them what challenge you challenges you face when you try to describe it or what kinds of things help you connect With others when you when you talk about it Sure, I can definitely speak to that. I meant in my last article that I published this came up Where I I think the line that has been quoted is that people have to feel like they have to have it all together And I think what's really refreshing about the open organization is that we can be real about what's going on And and talk about the struggles that we're going through in a way that allows us to learn You know carol dweck wrote the uh growth mindset and that's been a topic that in different communities Including our community and just always being curious about what I really like is that people know that I'm really curious As our other ambassadors and we're listening to them and learning as much from them as they are from us Yeah Is that being true in your experience gen in law? Yeah, um, and I was going to add to that. Uh, my experience has been um working with people that have never been exposed to open organization and so They often use different words. And so if you start with the word open, there's an immediate wall that you hit often Uh, because without an understanding of what the breakdown is if you just start using the word open Um, it it causes this. Whoa. Wait a second. What is that? Is that a bunch of chaos? I mean, we can't have chaos or you know, they don't understand That it requires all these guardrails and structures. So what does it mean? So, um The other word I tend to stay away from in the conversation is using the word agile unless I preface We're talking about a small a not a big a Because I work with people so I work with the leadership. We work on the culture We work on the people development side and so these are words that that are not understood And so you have to bridge the gap and often I find that the aha moment happens when you describe The five core principles because those words are known words instead of people can go. Oh, okay I understand that Uh, and if you talk about the community collaboration and inclusivity aspect then people will stop and go well Why aren't we already doing that? Shouldn't that the way isn't that the way it should be? So you have to I find for me I have to navigate into the conversation Very carefully And understand who I'm talking to Because there are a lot of bridges that need to be built across our community because we have more and more people that are Not in the technology world that are asking for this. They're hungry for how to do it Um to remain, you know, either competitively positioned in their market or just generally trying to address cultural and speed of innovation norms Um, and so I think it's up to all of us in the community that understand the various word uses and applications to be really careful I think we have a responsibility to not be irresponsible In the words that we use Yeah, well and just briefly Jen mentioned, you know five principles for folks watching that might not be familiar with it The official open organization definition lives upstream And the open organization ambassadors helped write collaborated to write that definition and you'll find it at open source.com You know jen's book is very thorough at describing an open organization When we call red hat, but it doesn't necessarily offer a comprehensive definition of what an open organization is So as the ambassador is one of their first order of business They undertook the the task of writing an open organization definition and it consists of they say any organization consists of Five key characteristics and jen of course just just mentioned them I just wanted to put that out there And so we made sure folks could could read along at home lard. How about your experiences? Speaking about open org Yeah, well, I'd agree with angela and jen of course because We tend to agree on on these things But yeah, I think I mean for me The the aha moment really comes when people realize that it is it is about structure and process But it's also about people And the thing that the open organization seems to in my experience Support is is really, you know Emotional intelligence like helping people to be okay with what it is that they're doing to trust their instincts and to and to collaborate at a level that is bespoke to The organization their their team and and themselves And I think that for a lot of people the aha moment comes when they're sort of forced to look at I don't want to use the word forced but When they're inspired to look at how their own bias and their own behavior might be playing into The way that they feel about their work and the way that they feel about their colleagues and teams So this is not just you know, this is not just like Here's five principles now go off and do it it's really about personal learning and and trying to be a better professional and trying to be a more Wholehearted professional in whatever it is that you're doing and respecting The the ideas and the work of the people around you So I think the I think that that little bit is something that gets lost often because people are like Oh, well, you know an open organization. We just need these structures and these processes But the structures and the processes are there to support this sort of professional personal development piece And and that that raises an interesting point something that I know folks are always interested in hearing more about And one of the things I know our group is really dedicated to kind of ferreting out globally are these Stories from open organization across industry, right? So Different sectors different domains different industries And so I'm wondering if if any of you would mind sharing, you know, a story or or an experience of when you've, you know Try to explain these You know principles or talk about Experiences you've had with organizations in different industries and how they respond to them what they latch on to what resonates with them Or maybe interesting and creative ways that they've applied the principles in ways we had never, you know considered I have a couple of examples. I think One I had last year was with a consulting company and so they use very different words But the more that I I talk with my colleagues there and have these discussions Um, they'll be like, well, yeah, that's totally what we're doing But we just don't it's not really a framework that they thought of in the terms the way that we discuss them um, but a lot of their what it's a Slalom consulting based out of the u.s. And what they do is more about how they develop and invest in their people in terms of their approach to openness is more on collaboration um, and Their inclusivity measure that they use is really about putting the right team together for the client versus Who's the most uh, senior person to put on the team? So they uh, they employ a slightly different method to idea meritocracy So it's really if you have even a junior person Has the right solution and the best idea for the client that person can lead the project versus the most senior person So their approach is really more about the um, how you put high-performing teams together and then the openness towards developing internally so they They're more invested in looking at nobody sits on the bench And everybody's developed to be a utility player so we can cross collaborate again do the right thing for clients And so I've always really appreciated their understanding of The values that we all use they just use some different language and framework for how they they do that Well, that's one of them anyways. Yeah, sure. Thanks I can speak about something pretty personal and related to my job So as mentioned, I'm a manager and so one thing that And I work at Microsoft and one thing that happens every year is we have this poll and I know it happens at every company And the way the results are distributed is that the manager gets the results And it's really up to you as to how you're going to share that information And so the way I've chosen to share that information is to really use the principles of the open organization Which is transparency. I share them all anybody can see him who wants to see him And then we sit down and I want to listen to folks talk about The opportunities for growth and that's the areas where basically I was lowest rated and then I love that because It gives me a chance to see where I have bias that I didn't even think about these different perspectives And that the team really understands they've you know over time you build up trust with your team And so they feel like they can and talk about things and then I'm like Blown away by what I'm learning and I think it's pretty I wear my heart on this way So they can see that and then I'll talk you know after listening if I have some ideas about how kind of quick Hits on how we might go forward But then they know that I'm thinking about it and that we'll be collaborating in the next period So we can learn from this and I always like to say We need to have this open organization and these open conversations because we want to make new mistakes It's boring to make the same mistake over and over again And then I do think from that our community develops And so I'm able to I've been able to take the principles of the organization open organization And really apply it to something where not everybody handles it that way You know, it's really hard to kind of put out there like here are my numbers Everybody can see how I'm doing and so It's a moment. Um, and I think it's uh really does help our team build trust and Just reinforces our organizational values that I'm trying to instill And what's it like sort of You know doing that making that gesture in a place where that's not the prevailing procedure or or culture like what What has been the response and what have you found to be people's reactions when you initially do something like that? I think it's been refreshing for the team and then I've seen others start to do the same So now I've my responsibilities have grown since I've been here And so now I'm I'm managers and managers and I've encouraged them to do the same And I said you don't have to do this And but I do it with them. I you know, I say here. I'll here's all my stuff, you know I say this is what I've done in different ways and I choose to be open And I encourage you to do that because while initially feels very daunting What you get back from that is amazing. And so They're going to really be able to grow in advance the careers and the way they want to by choosing Have this openness and I really do think that you know when I first heard Jim Whitehurst speak it was at quail ridge books when he was launching the His organization book and I was so inspired. I was like, oh my gosh, this is the type of leadership I have been hungry for and I just had to trust that that was something that others would feel And that's what got me involved in this team and I do think it resonates with people when we share it Great. Thanks I was just I was just thinking about a couple of instances With my experience with Greenpeace The project that I've been working on for the past two years is the first open source project that Greenpeace has done It's a software project and At the very beginning I actually used the open decision framework Which is a resource that was created I don't it was created by an open organization ambassador But I actually think it was a red hat people team project. I'm not entirely sure All correct. All right. Okay. Um, and so what I did was I I wanted to Convince a group of people at Greenpeace to run this as an open project because it's exactly the type of thing that Greenpeace supporters should be involved in We're building a platform for them um, and so I I actually remixed the open decision framework, uh to use a language that the senior management at Greenpeace could understand and it was wildly successful. We convinced them and they they put a very small team together and we've Been working openly since the beginning of the project publishing regularly Having community calls these kinds of things Um, and it's it's really interesting because no one on the team had ever worked openly either They all came from, you know, a corporate background command and control this idea that, you know Publishing your mistakes is don't do that because nobody wants to know about your mistakes You're going to get in trouble. Don't publish your ideas. This this mindset that people had Um and after over the last two years These people are changed. They are absolutely changed and they believe deeply that Getting feedback from the community that having an open discussion that being transparent about not only our successes But our mistakes as well that changing our minds is okay They they believe all of these things that we talk about um in in the open organization And it's for that reason that this team of five people Um has rolled out, you know, we're rolling out sites left and right We're putting this platform everywhere and we're so tiny But we're able to move so quickly because we've embodied this mindset of It's okay if we fail as long as we're failing forward So as long as we keep learning and as long as we make adjustments then, you know, just keep going And and it's been it's been really inspiring to sort of see how a group of people Just I I think that it's because they had someone to model the behaviors And I think that if you are the person modeling the the behaviors, it's it's I mean for me It just feels like a huge success no matter what happens because this group of people has embodied something that I truly believe in right, so Yeah, that's fantastic. It's really great um I will want to move us on to another set of talking points. Well, okay move us on to another set of talking points But before I do that, we now have more than 100 people Tuning in Listening and so I just want to remind everyone that if you're listening to this presentation live You're more than welcome to submit a question to our panelists The the line is open and you can type your question into the q&a box on blue jeans live and I'll make sure the panelists get it um as an next sort of General topic for discussion. I want to ask about participating in the ambassador community And specifically how it's impacted, you know, your own work and we've got a little taste of that in your answer so far I don't want to talk about it specifically now. You know, how is participating in the community impacted your work Your own thinking your own projects, you know, much the way that Laura just described Um, and how is your participation? I should I should say Enhanced what the community has accomplished or been able to accomplish You know, what do you feel like you've been able to contribute? Uh and over the history of our being together, you know, what have been some of your favorite moments or favorite initiatives or accomplishments? So I want to jump in off the back of this small story that I just told um Bringing helping people to develop the belief in uh open principles is not always easy um, there are times when It is very frustrating to be the person who is the true believer and to see some of the things that happen Uh, I think that you know cultural dynamics group dynamics are complicated And for me the ambassador community has been my saving grace um Every month we have a meeting in blue jeans and we come and I actually only recently learned that they were recorded So please feel free to go back in time and watch me complain About some of the situations that I've had it. Um, you know in my role with greenpeace um But being a part of this community has been very supportive because not only can I talk about things that are frustrating to me The way that we talk about them and the way that we understand each other Means that I get to grow as well Like we really have like a deep intellectual connection where we can talk very deeply about things that have happened Um that that caused me to reflect on my own behavior in this situation and and take it further and find solutions So I really think that for me um being part of this community is is about that exchange um And yeah, so I've I've definitely benefited a lot from having having you guys as my therapist essentially Um and in terms of how you know how it's um impacted the work You know when you grow and when you are you know and quote-unquote expert in something and you get to hang out with other experts in that thing Um, you know you it just pushes your thinking further So I you know, I definitely see an evolution of all of our articles over the last years If you go back and read the early ones They you can definitely see that we're kind of touching the waters of what does this mean and as we go on We find solutions. We write about solutions. We write about things that have been effective in our work in spreading These principles and I I think that for everyone it's it's really been a great learning opportunity Great. Thanks a lot. I don't know if I'd call myself your therapist, but But I I agree. I think um The community the peer group that we have as ambassadors is it completely has changed the way Um, I approach work. It has sharpened me. It is It is like Laura's right. It's a safe space sometimes to just come and and kind of vent and be like, you know This is my frustration and how would you have handled it? Or did I even read this the right way? Am I too close? And so you have that aspect like you would have with any You know trusted peer group, but I think in addition to that The the challenging of the thought part is really what I love that that's where it's helped me change Even my approach to how I write or how I work. Um, I think my writing completely has changed mostly because brian will Change my work for me or at least in the beginning get me on the right right edit And it that's right editing But you know kind of like helping you sharpen what you're trying to say because sometimes I get in a role of what I want to say And it it's it makes perfect sense in my head, but when it comes out of my mouth or through my fingers It's you know, it's just a mess and so um, but the um I think what I appreciate most in terms of how it helps us with our own day to day Work environments is the pushing of thought. So I I'm pretty well known in with the people that know me that I will do anything to rock the boat of thought and make you think differently and sometimes it's that challenge that we give each other That really I often find that sometimes they challenge me just as much as I challenge them and we'll have we thought about it this way Um, because we need that we need that if there's going to be any measure of growth or if we're going to see open organization as a Go from concept and something we tried over here to being this Global movement if you will and so I think it's uh for me That's really where I find the challenge and the laughter is great I think spending time with everybody When we're face to face as well like we were at summit It completely changes your perception of somebody that's just on the other side of a digital screen once a month um I thought jimmy was a very quiet person and then I find out he's got the best sense of humor in this great guy and all this value he brings And uh, and it's really important, you know, I found my commonalities with everybody and I think that then strengthens our community and our Kind of the the strength that we have that then help, you know Become more inclusive bring more people into the community the way the way that we see it that it's more human at that point Not just this concept Yeah, I think participating in the community I think the big thing for me is it helped it pushes me to dig deeper Right because you can talk about this at a surface level but really putting it into practice requires some serious thought and effort And hearing the stories it really is an international community with people from all over the world joining our calls And I also appreciate that because I don't want to just have like one or two perspectives I like having that really global perspective. That was something you said jen It's across industries and sectors and geographies and then we start talking about problems And like when we're trying to generate new ideas or talk about things just listening to the other folks It really does help root us one of the questions. I noticed in the chat is about Silo's and I I just think it's so easy in our lives to get siloed to get kind of television on what we need to do And the community really forces me. It's like this call I just work, you know crazy and then but this is a forcing function for me to come and really get rooted in What what am I why how I'm doing my work? Because that's really core um Yeah An accountability mechanism. I think in some in some ways, right? I mean we like to practice open organization behaviors and and leverage the principles and all kinds of things But if you tell us in march that you're going to try something Better believe in april we're going to ask you how that thing went when you're at the call And it's just nice to have that sort of extra level of Accountability from a peer group, you know to talk through it and to want to know how how things turned out, you know Um since enchilabrida, let's let's talk about this great question. We got from the audience. It's just about organizational silos and it's about The way that you can help break down silo's Throughout the organization not only using open organization principles, but you know, how can you help erode silos to really? bridge different departments or teams So that everybody is sharing and working according to the same principles. You have any experience Uh working that way or talking about that subject I think um for me one of the most useful strategies for trying to break down silo's is to be quite giving with your feedback And what I mean by that is when people out there like if you don't pay attention to what other people are doing Then you kind of don't have the right to expect that they pay attention to what you're doing and I found that um weighing in giving My perspective my feedback my comments on something that is in no way related to my department my team my job My project um actually It helps people to understand that they also have a voice and I think that it gives people agency because if they see somebody else Doing it they're more likely to to also Provide feedback and the more feedback that you give the more other people will give and you sort of create this nice flow of community and and you also Strengthen your professional work because people When you receive good critical feedback. I don't constructive Criticism on something that you've been thinking about and working with you Automatically respect the person that gave it. I mean for me. That's how it is for me If somebody takes the time to comment on my work I I respect that person for taking the time and I'm more likely to help that person in the future That's just kind of one of those human kinds of things and so I think that a big part of breaking down silos is really going outside of yourself and And taking that first step and not waiting for somebody else to do it No, I think uh, you know silos are caused for a variety of reasons. So you kind of there's uh Two different approaches to the way I would talk about this I would work with leaders to understand why are we having silos in the first place like where where's the actual breakdown But it's somebody that's on a team and recognizing it You know, there's always a few factors. Is it a communication challenge or issue? Are we not understanding each other? Is it the Kind of the uh, Talora's point that are we really closed off with feedback? Like where's the block at? um, I think also recognizing that Sometimes it's not a silo per se. I want to talk to maybe a little bit more in the the question itself that it could be um understanding and recognizing that there's one broad culture that we all adhere to or or values and visions But within that there's a variety of subcultures, especially within a if you're working with large organizations and large teams um, and and so why having subcultures is not a bad thing because that's more indicative of The type of people on the team. It's the type of area that you work in You know, if you're working with a lot of engineer scientific-minded people You may have a different sense of humor. You have a different way of communicating. You have different approaches. You're you As a personality of people just kind of you know span a spectrum of of types of people And so it may not be as understood when you're communicating to a different group of people that are more They marketing folks that are more creative minded and so their expressions are different Their communication styles are different the way they want to have communication is different and so Sometimes we may be perceiving that there's barriers there and there really aren't it's just a lack of understanding how to humanly engage and so That's really where that emotional intelligence piece and becoming more humane really comes in as a factor I know it is in the work that I do because that's often we're saying the same things But we're using different words or different tones or approaches Which also that the added layer to that is if you're working in a multi-generational team There's a lot of misunderstanding that happens where people are not trying to thwart what's happening They're not trying to not build community or be inclusive. We're just not using the same language if you will and so Uh, there's a lot of of work that could be done at Understanding interpersonal skills and human engagement that could make all the difference in breaking down silos So it's not always process and structures and uh governance. That's creating a silo It's um a lot of it just has to do with the humanness that exists and All right, all right, she's gonna say um, I think it's also the firehose of information So I'm not sure if it's like the set red hat, but at green piece. Uh, I spent five and a half years at manzilla um, you know working in big While not as big as red hat, but big nonprofit organizations. Um, there's a lot of information like a lot a lot of information and so It's hard to pick through it as an individual anyways and what gen was just saying about, you know It's not necessarily a structural silo Um, I think that that this this firehose of Information makes it quite difficult to to actually step outside of your own little trail of information Um, and and I think that that's you know, that's where the that human piece comes in is is like making a conscious effort to step outside of your own silo Because it helps people to realize that there is other things happening in the organization Yeah, so I was going to say that you know, I I've worked at red hat for a period of time and I like the fact that we could be so transparent about everything and I've tried to take that forward with me and other roles Where we need to talk about the problems, right? Like so if there are silos like let's put all the dirty laundry out on the table so we can sort it And figure out is there a purpose to this because maybe there is maybe there is a greater good even though it causes pain, you know At some point And then if there is a bigger problem that we need to solve we have to find a way to motivate people because Change does not happen unless people are motivated and I think that's what the whole or The principles of the or open organization allow me to do that kind of gave me a toolbox to go to to be like, okay They remind me I'm not trying to get consensus I need to collaborate listen to people and then at a certain point turn that into a strategy and an Implementation and just get it done and I need the community to come together and help me get it done So how do I motivate everybody and it really is that transparency and I think giving people an opportunity To to have participation and inclusivity aspect of it, you know, I it's so I think people say this a lot now So I don't want to be cliche but it's like diversity is being invited to the party and inclusive inclusion is being asked to dance And it really is about helping people understand how they why they would want to break down these silos and how they can Help break them down You know at the end of the day if they don't get broken down Maybe it's not the right time for that change and being willing to say, okay Not today or not right now But holding it in the back of your mind that maybe later you'll be able to affect some change to break down the silos Because it's so disheartening when you know, you can feel like you see it's so obvious Why do we need this crazy silo? That we've erected this is a Problem we've created why can't we solve it? But sometimes it's just a matter of timing but keep talking about it Thanks for that question from our audience really good one one that we talk about a lot and we'll continue to talk about I'm sure I want to talk a little bit now about The future of this thing we call the open organization as a concept, you know, where is it headed? The mute the movement the community the concept itself, you know, what are its futures? What are its next frontiers? What what challenges await us as a community? And what should we be focused on next, you know, how does how do we how do we win? How does open win in other words if that's even if that's even a goal and what is what does it look like for us to succeed? I'm going to jump in real quick Quickly because this is something I talk about almost on a daily basis 24-7 I think So I think next steps or where it's going. Does it have a future? It absolutely has a future. I am a firm believer that Open principles when combined with the right understanding and with the right competencies that people are given to how to apply them and use them and operationalize them is how we are able to meet the speed of innovation It's only going to continue to increase if we don't empower people with the competencies and skills of openness I think we'll start to see Not just the continual churn from an employment standpoint people getting burned out But I think we'll start to see businesses disappear because they're not able to meet the demands of speed of innovation Which can be addressed through the agility small a that comes with understanding the competencies of the principles and the values behind open um, I think What's going to be really really really key for those of us in the community today is understanding that it's time to go deeper With this so we have to start building those bridges externally with other outside of red hat outside of the client base that you currently have um, because What i'm seeing this is just based off of just say the last month of conversations at summit is more and more people are In europe in particular and i know laura can don't totally speak to this But you're having conversations around regulation changes around the word open like open banking Open data open government etc And so they're just now starting to go How do we how do we do this internally? What does that look like for our leaders and for our team and i literally had somebody contact me from europe that said We know nothing about this open organization. You keep talking about that. We just googled the two words open and Organization because we have an initiative we have to comply within the eu And then we just found this page on open source and that's how we found your name And so we just thought we'd call you and i'm like great. I hope that happens every day but the But what that's what that tells me is that there are words like open initiative being used particularly Particularly in europe right now And now you have business leaders and thought leaders going. Oh, what does that mean? How do we do open plus people and so i think that You know, we've been laying the found work this communities are a foundation this community has been laying it's time for You know that next level so i so i totally agree there's a future in it and I think it's just more responsibility in our community to say hey, this is the best approach These are you know tested approaches and now we can help you know go deeper and build on that For people that have no idea what open source is and I think that's the beauty of A movement if you will that could be a part of this great I just add that and We've talked about it several times over the last 45 minutes or so but this idea of bridging communities Is one that i'm very very interested in Because i'm a member of the co op community There's a huge co op movement happening in the world today where people are organizing businesses not for shareholders, but for workers Completely worker owned and it's not just grocery stores and you know like Hippy food stands. It's digital Digital agencies consultancies like it's really gaining traction and speed and is responsible for $760 trillion in A year this this thing that everybody has been ignoring for 175 years And the co op movement they have seven international principles that are Essentially the same thing using different words So it is open principles and the way that they talk about their work again using different semantics to say the same thing And you know there's there's this parallel movement happening and it's the same with environmentalism You know the environmental communities activists communities advocates for all different kinds of social justice projects They are also talking about how can we you know as a group of people reach our goals in a way that is You know that is respectful of the people involved And they're talking about this stuff, too so I think For me I see several different Movements happening And I think that it's part of our responsibility as as jen would say to To actually bridge that gap and to do everything that we can to to make sure that these other movements are Supported in the way that they need to be supported And I think that the ambassadors are a group of people that can really see those similarities and and try to bring them together Which makes the movement stronger because then it's not three or five or 12. It's it's one thing And on that note, I think a big piece of it is is You know releasing ourselves from the while my thing is just a little bit different So it's completely different mindset and really looking for ways to to kind of join together because I think The stuff that we're doing all of these different communities are doing our our You know with the end goal of creating a better more equitable world Angela any thoughts on the future sure absolutely. I was thinking about privacy and How the open organization? Really is a great way to participate and engage without risking your privacy because it's up to you as to the transparency and that you um engage in and The collaboration and so I think the what people Attracts people is more the the more they learn about the open organization They're like I get control over what i'm doing and how i'm going to do it And no one's like taking that for me because I do think people are having this fatigue around like people selling their data and And like this privacy risk and so I think that's going to be an interesting component of our as we move forward Is thinking about privacy and how you can be open and not lose your privacy? And so I just think that something i'm curious about Angela i'll just let you know that there is a card on our editorial board that's called um If you're so open how like how could you be private or something like that that I put there like two years ago And you are welcome to write that post Yeah, I got it on a weekly basis and just say oh, I hope something all right that soon. Yeah, if you're so open Why are you a privacy nut? I believe is yeah, that's what it Yep, okay, it's time to write that one. Angela just got signed up. This is how things work in the community By the way, people have ideas and they get signed up to write articles. So We have a question uh in the chat uh around open leadership Which I think is a natural extension of of the point angelo was just making about individual behaviors and choices And so the question is you know, can you share some insights into the role of open leadership with regard to the open organization? You know, what might be I'll just extend this a little bit and say like what might be The characteristics of open leadership or what what does it mean to be an open leader? in an open organization Ooh, I think we're all gonna have a lot to say on this one. I think so. Yeah Angela did you want to start? I didn't want to cut you off. Yeah, I can um I can speak to this. I really try every day. That's like my goal is to deliver open leadership I mentioned that I'm a manager and I um I think that in a manager is more than just a manager. It's a leader Everybody has the opportunity to be a leader. So I don't I want to really open this up for anybody in any organization to come in and um Really think about what's the problem that needs to be solved and what perspective can I give on that? And how can I impact and become like a positive impact for this Bigger world that's impacted by the problem um And so I just I don't it's like I have so many thoughts about this. I'm trying to figure out the best way to The words but don't be worried about trying to solve the problem all at once Find a way that you can deliver leadership in your own way because everybody can be a leader there is some unique perspective that you give And you should feel empowered to speak about that um Leave by example and people will notice. I was talking to somebody earlier today who was like well I haven't been told and I said I don't want But you have your own mind, you know, like I I really want people to feel like they can be innovative and it is risky I mean we write about this at times where It is risky to kind of go out there and be you and be different I was talking to an ambassador last week And about how It can be a nerving to be different Right because we want to grow our careers and and there's been this legacy of ideas around just follow the model But what I see in industry all industries is that the model is getting blown up and it's getting reinvented And that's what jim talks about. I feel like that was the genesis of this movement And why i'm still here because I want to keep learning and growing as it grows And I'm I'm learning as a leader and I'm also learning from other leaders And that's really exciting I think for me uh when I work with people on open leadership, so to answer Two ways does it uh, what are the impacts or that may not be the full-on way it was phrased But there is an impact on how people lead in terms of open organization working Um and to to reiterate what angela said anybody can be a leader. It's not a role. It's not a title Certainly not a paycheck. It's really a set of behaviors and A decision to own who you are and what your contribution is a positive contribution that you have to give back to your team And to your company and clients and et cetera as that as that scales out um open leadership really requires being authentic it requires transparency and um Vulnerability and I think those are very very scary things for leaders, especially those leaders that have responsibility tied to You know performance and budgets and and things like that And I think the other critical element with that is an ability to be decisive Um, you know an open organizations with things often depending on what company you're at there's a lot of decentralization and and uh meritocracy in terms of decision making and people get so Engrained in that flow that they forget that somebody still has to make a decision And so I think that that often can be lacking if you get too far into one side of openness So remembering is a leader that responsibility that you still have to be decisive and make decisions that are that are right for your people Not just right for whatever platform you're on um, the the authenticity transparency vulnerability piece is scary Um to angela's point you have to bring your whole self Um into what you're doing. I I have a saying I've used for years that you have to embrace your weird whatever your weird is you need to embrace it because That that that measure of talent or quirkiness what it's quirky for one person is normal for another and and I think we're all We've all experienced that myself quite a bit um, but it's uh The more that you lean into that the more you're able to bring Your whole self to what you're doing and it ultimately feeds the people around you because it has more purpose and excitement to what you're doing um, and and really the ability as a leader To be able to step out and say this is who I am I fail Often but I fail forward or uh, these are the mistakes. I've made but here's what I've learned um People need that and I think we need that more now than we ever have to be able to see real have real discussions Have real open authentic conversations that yep. That was me. I did that or that did happen But I totally own it and here's how you can learn from it and can I learn from you? I mean, I think that's important for leaders also To remain coachable so that you listen to the people around you and you learn from them in your community just as much as as you can offer and share somebody back and um It's how people if you can cut fear off at the knees like literally all you have to do is you just need a few seconds to Say what you need to say if you can give yourself 30 seconds of courage to do that the fear goes away because people Majority of them not everybody will basically stand up and applaud you for just being yourself and being real and saying what they've been Thinking but didn't have the guts to do so um for me. That's how I a big part of how I view open leadership and why it's so important more I'm smiling because Jen just said a bunch of stuff that I would have said to Um, there are three more words that she didn't use yet. So I'll use them Actually, I think he did say trust. Did you say trust you said trust? You said I had to leave you something more Yeah, so uh, there are three the three words are the first is trust I think that um open leadership has a lot to do with trust and trusting the people that you are de facto leading and trusting yourself um, because the fact is is that you know, I mean all this messy human stuff is messy human stuff for a reason and Trust goes a long way with your team So trusting that people have reasons for doing what they do trusting their expertise is a huge one for me You as a leader don't know everything. Uh, so, you know, trust the people around you That's a big one. And then the other two words that Jen didn't say Um, she said fear, but she didn't say the other two in the dark triad of bad Which is shame and guilt We humans feel shame and guilt for things that are probably Stuff that we learned a really long time ago and it's just kind of stuck in our brain that we are You know, should be ashamed for x or feel guilty about y Um, I think that if you feel fear shame or guilt and you actually take the time to look at that and think about Why you feel that feeling it goes a long way to leadership because you get to know yourself better And you can sort of navigate situations that make you feel that way If you understand why you would feel ashamed about anything about something about when somebody says something and you feel shame If you understand that then you're less likely to do it to other people And your teams will be so much stronger if they don't have to deal with those three emotions Great parting advice and with that I believe we are out of time. So it's been lovely Thank you to our open organization ambassadors angela robertson Jen kelchner and lara hilligur. Thanks so much for being here today and for your time and helping us wrap up Open organization week here red hat on such a strong and compelling and inspiring note Just a note to everybody Watching that you can find the open organization ambassadors at open source dot com So connect with them there. You can also find them and their work on github Just search for the open organization ambassadors on github to find their working documents And a list of the books that they're currently working on We thank everyone for their time today. Have a great rest of your open organization week and a great weekend. Thanks Thanks. Thank you