 Welcome back everyone cubes coverage here Boston, Massachusetts I'm John for the Rob stretch a Matt Hicks is here president and CEO red hat just hot off the keynote Great to see you. Thanks for come on. Thanks John. Thanks for having me So you mentioned three inflection points in your career four inflection points You set the table that moves you then you think we're in now. Take us through that again you know I am When I go through my first moment was Open-source just the impact of open source in my days that was compiling kernels on it and then you move from open source to Almost the internet which was my dot-com experience of doing a website and then distributed teams Really sunk into me with git and the how people could develop in parallel and merge and then lastly was iPhone with edge and those were Really defining moments that sort of build the open hybrid cloud for us and how I Experienced each one as we went there and now AI we've been saying on the queue for you know over a year now But now more heavily we're seeing AI hyped up but actually having impact Yep, and you mentioned chat GPT kind of gives that ubiquity piece of it And then really came out of the academia was the comment Where do you see AI going and impacting the developer because we were riffing at the open-source summit around how Open source is exploding into ecosystems. Yeah, and There was a leaked memo from Google that talked about boats and how open source is growing into a much bigger impact Yeah, how do you see AI growing and sustaining its impact? It? It's fascinating for me where I feel like I'm watching the open-source innovation that I saw with Linux of how you saw it grow and people contributing and that impact of power with it Seeing the exact same thing in AI it was laid out in that timeline pretty well But it's a hundred times faster than I experienced with Linux And so I think it will become the innovation model for for AI and is an open-source guy That's a really it's an exciting thing that I think will impact development operations different core business models that we work with but yeah, it'll impact all of them When you look at the challenges that IT has and we've been saying also securities big part of that How do the operations keep up with the speed of developers shift left security developers handling that right in the pipeline You have security threats, you know, you have AI which is now a data Opportunity challenge as well Seems to be those are the guardrails people talk most about in terms of those scale That's one of your core messages of your scale. How do you see those pick that picture evolving? I think there are a couple parts on development and operations We've spent a while where those sort of operate is two different entities with it Whether it's shift left or it's management by policy I think those two functions have to team really well just to deal with normal development pace Then when you get to AI I Think it has tremendous good potential It'll also have challenges of people using it for security exploit So you have to be able to apply it better and faster. I don't think it's an area to ignore It'll be the same like development and operations teams How do they use AI to apply in their domain? I'm really well, you know One of the things that you guys did really well with the Ansel acquisition was you brought that in let it Maintain its great community But now with all this talk of AI and as cloud scale kicks in data's a big opportunity Automations that on everyone's mind and that's an automation culture Yeah, how do you how does that kind of cross pollinate through red hat and IBM and and your customers? Yeah, I think One Ansel touches into that open-source grassroots contributor model, which is It's a phenomenal innovation model. So I think a lot of operations. They'll be the most under stress How do they work faster and faster and faster as as developers are using AI to augment their capabilities? You saw a taste of this with Antsville lightspeed of how can we we call like how do we raise the floor and the ceiling so? every I Could jump into Antsville and become proficient pretty fast in a lot of different areas But then our Antsville experts also get a lot better because they can use lightspeed tweak it Don't have to write it explain this raising floor thing You just mentioned because you we were talking before you came on we came on camera about the impact of open source I was saying this made a lot more developers coming in. Yeah What does that raise the floor mean like in terms of like number of developers? What does that mean to you? I think both number and how fast they're productive. I parallel this back to In my day when I started you had to read books or in my case read open source code to learn But when Google came around its search was so ubiquitous Developers didn't have to do that same model. They could get a lot of suggestions AI is doing the same thing You can come out of college have some poor skills and get really really good in specialization fast And then learn from the people around you at a quicker pace So I think it'll add more and then it'll speed up the Progress and efficiency too. It's interesting prompt engineering has been a term that came out of the chat Demovement and then it was prompt tuning. Yeah, and then autonomous code. Yeah, I mean prompting is just a parameter passing Yeah, so that's a programming construct. That's gonna continue in is that gonna change how people level up I mean because what you're getting at is that the ability to learn is so fast You could have a skill and be top of the heat really quick. Yeah, and this is a more subtle area but I think you have the Models of infinite parameters and train on all the things and then you're seeing this specialized model application Language is what we all interact with with chat GPT But if you look at actually one of the IBM models, that's a code foundation model It's almost the opposite of language language. You vary it all the time with a code model You want to ask it a thousand different ways and get the same result every time Otherwise development becomes a bit chaotic if everyone is changing how they do for loops every time they write code It's gonna have a tough outcome So I think we'll see that specialization of models of all this well just for more domains I think in terms of contributing back to open source It's the thing that makes an open source model work on it if you're not Willing to contribute back you're not gonna build that critical mass of the ecosystem So everything we do is we don't want to be the only ones running a project We have to join we have to contribute but then that's where you tap into that innovation potential that you know We see with projects like backstage we see with AI we saw with Linux we saw with kubernetes But yeah, that's what makes open source work in our mind You just got a lot of news coming up Can you just give the quick highlights that you mentioned on stage? What were your favorite ones? What's the key news that's kicking off the event and I just saw you Leaking a little bit out there but expand on what you see is the key news. Yeah, I would split it into two groups There's one group of how do you? Manage everything in it. I've worked in an IT role It's incredibly tough and so we have a balance of developer innovations like developer hub service interconnect for hybrid Operator innovation so it's well light speed event-driven ansible And then as you move those two teams faster the security component is really key And so we did supply chain work and some management work around advanced cluster service And then in parallel we did the how do we move model development and deployment faster? But I think it's if we lose sight of what people have to deal with every single day in IT They're not going to have enough time and cycles to work on the AI work So we see that as really balanced One of those gravitates a lot of airtime on the AI side But I think we have some really exciting work that people apply Every day and their challenges today as well You know we talk about AI and there's really two aspects of the AI app side Which you guys enable top of the stack and then below the infrastructure. Yep different perspectives I think that the top of the stack is really more fast and loose developers coding Experimenting obviously DevOps takes it to that level but infrastructure the concern is I don't want hallucinations happening on my infrastructure So AI is going to be tighter. Yep more controlled and more secure Take us through your thoughts on how infrastructure the infrastructure AI looks versus say the app App AI embedded. Yeah, and I think this goes back to that Chris talked about the sum that specialization of models for us when you get into Ansible and you're automating infrastructure. You don't want a ton of variance on it You have to has to be pretty deterministic You want a lot of variance on inputs and prompts. You want really deterministic outcomes and that Whether you call it a transformer models or generative AI or foundation models the same Unlabeled data training applies, but we apply it to a really really tight domain I think you'll see more of that on the infrastructure side where The large language models are incredibly demonstrable, but I don't think they'll apply Equally to everything so I think we'll see that split in models and that's where we're investing is making sure we can accommodate all I saw the Rob last last event at open source summit in Vancouver I've read more academic papers in the past six months than I have in the set six years Yeah, there's more more stuff coming out people are pumped up I saw one about you know contamination about test data People have to be careful with AI and understand their IP rights a lot of concerns What's your advice to your teams because you want to innovate? Yeah, you also don't want to get Off the rails so to speak. What do you what's your advice to your team and your customers? It is I think that's a it's a risk-reward balance how we deal with this is we We work with an open source open source is under the constraints of copyright choices and open source licenses as Cool as recommendations might be to a developer you can't step afoul of either of those two lines And this is the other reason we like In our Ansible demo we show attribution we show where training is coming from so you can make a more informed choice of Whether you can safely include that in your code on it and I think it's very powerful But I think these topics We'll have to get through them before we see critical mass Robert has another dimension to software supply chain if you think about attribution Lineage, where's that code coming from speaking of software supply chain? What's your take on the current state of s bombs and as this becomes more of an important conversation? What's your what's your take on where we're at? I think It's excited. We're biased like we've spent 30 years curating open source supply chains so enterprises could use them I think logged for Jay the security issues Were a moment for a lot of companies to realize that they were using a lot of uncontrolled software that they didn't understand so I think it's a great development of Getting open source in more enterprise critical options and then knowing where it came from knowing that it's supported So it's exciting. It's moving fast, but I think it's an important area. So I think a big piece of it was really That attribution where is it coming from knowing it's it's good code? I think what will also be interesting and love your thought is when companies are also building out from their own Repositories and how they can have to your point have to focus on their own IP as well. Yeah, no, I think there's a I think there'll be a newfound interest and what's the difference between? GPL LGTL ASL MIT licenses, which is healthy because those are what make open source work and distributable How you fit them into your model? It's an area We've always been passionate about because we can help find those intersections that work well for you But I think it's an area where you just can't because open source is accessible You can't take any of it and throw it into a proprietary software model and be okay with that So that'll be the balancing act where we're excited. We think it'll drive a lot of open source adoption but like the late 90s early 2000s when there was a lot of focus on what these licenses mean How do you include them? Well, I have a feeling we'll see a resurgence and in the importance of that and development process Now you guys we've been a big fans of Red House. You guys are successful We love open source. We think open source wins always wins don't bet against open source Putting all that aside for a second AI wave if it does come in the way We think it will be we were speculating how does open source as organizations survive? I mean open source take the Linux foundation as an example and other groups They're all built from the bottom up very thin top not a lot of overhead Yeah So keep the vendors out make it keep it open keep it organic when you have so much with wave of people coming in and you Have now ecosystems developing within the organizations. How does open source? continue to grow and Stay I won't say relevant. This is relevant like stay stable doesn't get tumbled over by this wave It's I wish I could tell you like well, I know the answer But I have seen if I go back through communities that have just grown to an Incredible size of scale fast Linux is one Kubernetes has been another one Kubernetes grew to that size a lot faster than Linux did when I look at at AI whether it's open source aggregations, I'll a hugging face Whether it's data repositories that are open and clean and no licenses. I think they'll just grow faster than Kubernetes I don't think it'll be it'll be organized differently than Linux work than probably Kubernetes did But I'm in the camp. I don't bet against open source like people will find a way to do it and Enterprises will find a way to pick channels that are stable that they can trust and it's super exciting. I love it It's a plenty of challenges. It's an opportunity to I mean, I mean personally it's so solid We were speculating we put the question out there mainly to discuss it and we think it's going to continue to thrive But it might look different. Yeah, it's gonna have to because it's growing up. Yep, and it's different open source was a lot of code focus in the day AI will be Mathematics codes train models incremental models data aspects governance aspects So it's just different components But in red hat we've always talked about open unlocks the world's potential and we don't say Open source code. It's that model and so for us. It's super exciting like this model We'll get applied to several other domains than just code and I think it will thrive Final question for you you're going to be very busy. I appreciate you're coming on the cube So can angle really appreciates your time and I know you're sort of busy What conversations are you going to be having this this week with customers your teams your partners? What's now so we know you're talking points heard your keynote one of the hallway conversations going to be like What are you looking forward to what are you going to be talking about? I look forward to the balancing aspect which is as exciting as AI is and we've seen a lot of exciting technology trends You have to be able to free up your time and be more efficient to chase them on whatever chasing means to you Whatever application having the balance of announcements of we can make you faster with Ansible We can get you to edge faster if you're moving into the cloud faster. We can accelerate you there I love that because we know the part that you want to talk about and focus on Helping customers be able to unlock that is exciting. That'll rather be every hallway conversation Awesome, you've looked super pumped. Thanks for coming on Mad Hicks president CEO here on the cube Go to silicon angle comm for the articles. I'm John for the Rob stretch a breaking down all the analysis Paul Gillan Is here as well. We'll be breaking down all the action two days wall-to-wall coverage. We'll be right back with our next guest