 I bet a lot of you didn't know that mine pump could make twice as much money if we just did before and after photos But we won't because they suck this episode is all about why they totally suck. Also. Here's the program We're giving away today maps power lift This is a maps workout program designed to get you to a power lifting me or just get strong Like you're gonna compete in a power lifting me. Here's how you get free access to that program Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode Subscribe to this channel and turn on your notifications If we like your comment if you're the winner will let you know and you'll get free access to maps power lift also There's 48 hours left for our December sale maps hit which is high intensity interval training is 50% off in map split This is a bodybuilder style split routine. It's advanced is 50% off So they're both half off maps it maps split Here's how you can get that discount and sign up go to maps fitness products calm and then use this code DEC 50 so DC DEC 50 gives you 50% off either or both programs. All right, enjoy the show One of the biggest conflicts we have with our marketing team. Oh, it's also It's also costing us a lot of money for sure But it completely goes against our integrity as coaches and trainers and so I think we need to talk about Why mine pump does not use before and after pictures in our marketing or why we think before and after pictures are Bullshit the struggle is real it is because you know how effective they are and how like Emotionally pulling it is just to see that, you know clear and distinct change in somebody and then it's an immediate thought that Wow, if I do this this is gonna happen in a really short period of time Well in the words of our marketing team you guys are idiots to proven formula Okay, it's hard to deny that Can you name any piece of? Advertising that is more effective than a before and after in fitness and health nothing no nothing is more It will sell more it will sell more faster. It'll get you more attention entire companies That's including in all aspects of health beauty and fitness all of it Was this all started was it body for life or what was that program that really highlighted? They were probably the first one to a really to I think take full advantage of this before and after has been around forever I mean it would they have ever but they took it to you remember that you would open the book I had the book. Did you have the book Doug? I know you did. Yeah, you followed it I bought the book and you opened it and I would say the first four pages the back four paint were all just Before and afters just amazing transformations. Oh, I bought so many products as a kid based off of before Cyrogenics was a company that I bought that they sold a Supplement system which was literally 10 bottles of a bunch of stuff and the before and afters were so dramatic Literally, there would be a overweight guy who then looked like a bodybuilder like it wasn't even like you know So it's a lost 15 pounds. It was like wow that guy became a bodybuilder. Yeah, and I spent my hard earned I remember I'm a 15 year old kid I'm washing dishes at a restaurant and I'm saving my money and it's like $200 is back in 1995 or whatever for this guy and it was the before and afters that did this I wouldn't have done it otherwise It's super effective. It's also one of the number one things we hate about the fitness industry that we grow up hating Well, what do you think is that what's the psychology behind it? Why? Oh, why is it? Why does it work so well? When people see a before and after it is it taps into the way that our brains evolve to see evidence Yeah, so if I show you a study that says, you know, the study shows this percent increase of whatever That's never gonna be as effective as especially someone you know a friend of yours who lost a lot of weight doing something You're automatically be like, oh my god, that totally works because it's really called social evidence or I also think there is a Motivational component that it taps into too because what happens is whenever someone looks and that's why I think body for life crushed this because if what they did so well was So many different looking people guys girls fat tall skin you'll identify one of them So we all relate I think I think it does you somebody goes. Oh my god That's what I look like right now And then they see what they look like afterwards and then so now they have a picture of what's possible for them because that body That guy has my body type right now what he looked like six months ago And now he looks like that and also I think it's it's really about the attention game, right? Like what's the the most powerful way to express that whatever it is you're selling them works You know, it's just a visual it tells a lot of information in a very short period of time And like you don't have to read like all of the proof The backs it or the system for sure, but it's got to be hitting like a very very emotional Yeah primal type thing for because you see yourself and that like so if I saw an ad for some pillar with that And it was advertised to women. It was just a woman before and after you don't that ad doesn't hit me It was a skinny guy. That's right If you look I mean, you know, yeah, you know three guy built like me like look like what I look like before boy That one would I mean I bought by the way the cybergenics had a hard-gainer Supplement stack and that's the one they bought because I saw the skinny dude Gain a bunch of muscle and I was like oh this proof of concept. Yes. This definitely so I think that's what it is I think that if you do enough of these right and you have a fitness business You put enough of these before and afters you throw up a picture of a percentage of these people that low Oh my god, that looks just like me and now they are inspired because they go Oh if he can do it or she can do it. I can do it. Yeah And now you know some now our marketing team has said this to us who cares how you get them in So long as you sell you teach them the right way and you show them the right workouts and the right diet And they try to make the case that you'll attract more people That you can then help and I've heard that before right and there is some truth to it But the the problem with this is the way you enter into your fitness journey matter so much In terms of your sustainability that that would start people off on the wrong foot and it's so Against Everything that we stand for in fact when we first met before we started mine pump that was one I don't know if you guys remember that was one of the first things we said whatever we you sell We're not going to use these before and afters to try to sell our products because how many of our clients fell prey to that Even while they were our clients and how annoyed were you with your with with this this whole marketing system and Immediately expectation coming in that we would have to like basically overcome an objection Right away and like sort of talk them out of that mindset. It's tough though because I mean I've seen a lot of our Transformations of people that have listened to show for years I'm so glad you said that it's not like we don't have before and after right we have hundreds of ones and they're inspiring So it's it's a it's a it's a you know what it was you call that a catch 22, right? Like it's this weird weird situation we're in where man One I wouldn't we're not big fans of using that to as a promotional Angle but boy, there's some of these incredible transformations that people have made that you know selflessly I want to share because I don't look look these are people too that but then I know I don't I know the message that that's sending and it flies right in the face of what I think we present on the show all Time what we stand for I think okay So the first thing that I think That I for me that at least that's an issue is that it sells the message That the aesthetics of your body and how they change as you exercise is Is the most important thing or that's the only thing right because what you see is looks and people are already so Fixated on aesthetics and looks when it comes to working out That what it causes for them is it because when you're doing it the right way if you let's say you're gonna lose 40 pounds When you do it the right way, it's it starts off slow It's a slow process at first if you're looking for sustainable lifelong changes If you want to just change your body and then go back to what you did before that's fine But if you want sustainable results, it's a step-by-step process It's a slow process and so what it does to people is it makes them think that the visual is the is all the value and they ignore All these other beneficial effects that they that they don't notice like I remember how many times it's happened to you right You get a client and you're doing everything the right way This is later on when he became really good as a trainer and they'd come to you to be two months or three months Into your your training, you know with them and they'd say oh, you know I've only lost like seven pounds on the scale I don't know if this is really working and then you would say to them. Well, how's your energy? Yeah? How's your sex drive? How's your mood? Oh my god, all that stuff is way better and then they would start to like notice Like oh, yeah, this is really valuable But the point before that was that they were not aware because what they were so focused on Was just a little that's the problem with like okay, so let's take the body for life and you look at a page Let's say that's got ten transformations on it and let's say there's you know There's an obvious winner like oh my god his transformation It's most amazing and then there was somebody that let's just say had like the least physical transformation But what the story doesn't tell was the guy that had maybe the least transformation on the on the visual It got he got off drugs. His wife and him have a better marriage. He's been a more productive father Maybe he's recovering from a chronic right and like I mean just completely has changed this guy's life forever But no one is talking about it because we're so fixated and focused on the abs are showing Yeah, like who who won the the look transformation and maybe the guy who won on the physical Transmitting that guy already had a lot of those things in line in his life And so it made the transformation for him literally X's and O's or what if they did it in an unhealthy way or right? Yeah, so that even better point. Yeah That's a that's a big one because you don't know the whole story of what happened Which is so important and then it creates these kind of false expectations. In fact Before and afters have been around for a long time in the weight loss industry or whatever And then there was regulations that said you need to put underneath and they always do this in real small print Right that you know users can expect don't don't expect these results. It's all individuals will vary Yes, we vote results will vary they had to do that because they would get in trouble But it doesn't matter it still causes and creates these false expectations So then you have somebody that enters into this whatever program or whatever that's selling There are goods and services through this before and after and now this person has that visual like that's what's supposed to happen That change right but what what people need to understand is the visual changes that happen through a fitness and health journey Are the side effect of the filth the the health and fitness journey not the primary effect It's the side effect of improving your health now if it becomes a primary effect You start to sacrifice health which always happens and then you start to lose both So you don't want to have those false Expectations that are sold through before and afters. That's I mean that's one of the main reasons why I hate I never did that as a trainer because This person has their own story their own challenges. What's a win for them? Might not be a win for someone else or might be a loss for somebody like if I have a new client who? Has a bad relationship with exercise has never done it It maybe had some bad experiences terrible diet all that stuff and she just Was consistent one day a week for a month and then she came in a second day a month and was consistent for three months That could be for that person a huge win now for someone else that might be nothing not a big deal I'm 20 years old. I could show up whenever I want. I don't have all these you know things I don't have this relationship with exercise like that other person But that person who has that big win if their expectation was based off of before and after And how many times have you had this happen with a client? Man, I'm failing and then you have to sit down and like point out the wins like what do you mean? You're failing you came to me. You never exercise an individual journey. Yes, and then this is I think the biggest point We're trying to stress like each person We have to take our own path. There's there's very specific needs that that each person has coming in and You know that's just like a fraction of the story that the byproduct like you said of All the work that we're putting in to rebuild the body in and create a healthier You know body to keep you going further into the future It's the same reason why we we don't like the 30-day or 60-day or 90-day challenges either totally because another effective marketing tool Right. Yeah, I mean it's just it's a what people are so focused on the outcome and we're constantly preaching the journey Yes, you know you you oh enjoy the process Can I lose the most weight like there's all the offices right? Oh every work when in one month from now? There'll be all these offices across the country that will promote these alright weight loss challenges Everybody's gonna do yeah, and it's all and you win a cash prize if you get the whoever loses the most weight in the office And everybody is focused on the the result the outcome Versus the journey on how they got there and the truth is if that's if they're only focused on the outcome And they don't focus on the journey. It won't be sustainable Guaranteed it won't be no no and it's not it's not just your opinion Adam that the numbers are clear, right? It's an 80 plus percent fail rate within a year of losing the weight that you're trying to lose if you approach it The wrong way, which is how most people do so you are almost guaranteed to fail within the first year now If you extend it to three four five years the fail rate is north of 95 percent Why would you do anything? Why would you put so much effort into anything and by the way at that rate? And by the way all that really highlights is just how you know how radically different we all are and the ability for some people to just fucking Stay five percent. Yeah, that's it. I mean that's all that highlights is that there's some people that have a different gear that can Sacrifice for years mode and be miserable before they finally break versus most people that like after a year of ago This is ridiculous. I'm not gonna live my life like no, you're a hundred percent correct It's it's all about the journey and the result is great But if you enjoy the journey and you do it the right way You're always gonna be on the journey because that's the part that you're that you enjoy that you understand Those are the changes that are sustainable The focus on the result or creating those false expectations is almost a guaranteed way to get someone to approach fitness and health through a Unsustainable, you know 100% fail rate, you know after six months or a year, right? And so what we don't want to do is Start people off on the wrong foot and with fitness and maybe in some areas you can start on the wrong foot and then correct things Yeah, but with fitness. It's it's starting on the wrong foot is almost guaranteed way to get your screw up You start changing to adjust at that point, too And I just think that this is one of those things that make it creates this sense of being in a race like all of a sudden now You know like I'm not getting this I have to push push push harder and like everything is just about you know Getting as quickly to the finish line as possible and not you know being aware of what your body's trying to tell you You know what a worse outcome is is that people actually have success with it? That's even worse when they when they actually utilize these challenges or use these transformations to motivate them to have success That's short-term success. Yeah, because now they I mean how many times have you had a client like that where you picked Them up later on and they love that stuff. They love the comparison stuff They love what they'll say is hey I did this before and it worked. Yes, and then I'll say to them Well, why are you here a couple weeks? No, that was always my answer if it worked. Why are you here? That's right. Oh, well, I couldn't stick with it. So did it work or did it not work? No, it worked No, it didn't if it worked you would not be here and that's the big thing. I remember talking to a client Years ago and this was a gentleman who had a big setbacks in life He had a back injury then he got divorced and anyway He used to be fit and then didn't work out for a long time gain a lot of weight and he came and hired me and We started working out and this was maybe six months into training And I remember he had he was really down on himself one session and he's like man This is I suck I used to you know be so consistent back in the day And I don't know why this is so hard for me this and that and I sat down with him I said, okay, let's figure out. You've been with me for six months Let's look at all the amount of times you've worked out with me in that six month period Let's talk about that Let's talk about some of the stuff that we've changed with the nutrition and I did the math and I don't remember what it was But I said, okay, you've averaged about two workouts a week with me since we started six months ago And he goes yeah, I can't believe I'm only working out twice a week And I said, okay, how many days a week were you working out before you saw me and he's like he's quiet Zero I said sounds like a success to me sounds like you've done more than you did before it's that you know That that that false expectation that people have especially when they compare themselves to things that are not that you can't really compare to Which I think brings us to the next one. Well, yeah That's just gonna say that's the next and maybe the most dangerous Part of all this is encouraging people to compare themselves to other people to trap That's a big trap. That's a social media trap period causes depression anxiety thief of joy, right? Oh, I mean you can it's so hard to To you know be kind of proud of your successes and acknowledge your progress When you're comparing yourself to someone else which again back to you know some of the earlier points You don't know the whole story all you're comparing to is this one factor like well They make more money while they look happier in these Facebook pictures with their family Wow, they look more fit than I do and they got there faster So now you're not a success. You're a failure now. No, I'm not as good as that person This is failing for me which leads to bad behaviors, right? You start to feel down on yourself either you'll a stop doing what you're doing or be Engage in unhealthy health and fitness behaviors like over dieting over training Doing things that are not sustainable for yourself taking all these diet pills that kind of stuff It's it's comparing yourself to other people besides in fitness is one of the the biggest Problems that people can encounter and it caused a lot of bad things I think it's worse today than it's ever been in our lives for the exact point that you brought up like This didn't exist that long ago where like if you were just just 20 years ago You could go a full year and maybe not see two people that have like six pack abs Like literally that would be totally normal and this would be totally normal for someone who works out in a gym That's how crazy it is. Yes I used to do this thing right when people would like compare and talk about oh this person in this body And she looks so amazing and then they I would stand them up in the sales pit and have them like look across the gym 150 people yeah 150 people in there all busters. These are all consistent people It's a weekday in here right now. I said show me five people that look that way in the gym right now So this is totally biased. It's not we're not the mall. We're not in a random place This is where people want to be fit and you couldn't you couldn't find me five people But yet today on social media and let me tell you the people that like these transformation pictures that think that they're inspired And motivated by it are the same people that also follow 20 30 50 different of these fitness influencers who go and diet extreme take Thousands of photos of themselves in short periods of time use them to drip over the course of a year And even if they don't let's say there's somebody who's keeps their body neurotic Yeah, six percent year around and what you don't know is like how fucked up and out of balance the rest of their life Is because they're so neurotic about their body and you as this person this normal person who has a normal job And just wants to be healthy and fit are following these people and can and compare constantly Comparing yourself daily and so you get this skewed perception of what the real world looks like and it doesn't look like it's it's so much More intense these days like the lot last time I remember even having access to looking at those type of visuals It was magazines and that that's what we had we had to go get the magazine and then you would look at oh wow like Look at these guys are amazing or girls like with their bodies there But occasionally you get it on TV, but every single day you just scroll and if you're following, you know These people it's just like a constant loop a reiteration that you're not good enough You're not good if you'll never get to this point. Yeah, and insecurities are often based off of comparison. I am Skinnier than most people. I am fatter than most people. I am less happy than most people I'm less attractive than most people, you know what and by the way This is statistically true not that it matters by the way because you have value no matter What and you can be a good person or bad person no matter what but even if we look at the numbers the odds are that 99% of anybody watching or listening to this somewhere in the middle meaning most people are kind of like you, right? Most of us are like that very few people are on the extremes now What is presented in before and after pictures and what is presented in social media and in marketing extreme is that extreme? for example if I If I lived in an NBA locker room, okay, or NBA courts, I would think I'm six foot tall, right? I would think I'm short like my gosh. There's these everybody's you know, I wouldn't even think they're giants I would be like wow. I'm so tiny. Yeah, everybody's like six eight or seven foot tall I'd have this distorted view of my height compared to others That could become an insecurity and that would only enhance the insecurity because I'm like, oh my gosh I'm so well then then you go home and all you follow is NBA players. Yeah, so you're getting it double Well, that's what I'm saying. So and this happens with fitness marketing and this is what before and after is due because here's what happens You go and you follow the program or the diet that the before and after is selling You do it and you do it for 30 days and the before and after you saw I was like, oh my gosh This guy lost so or this girl lost so much weight looks so incredible 30s And then you do everything right, you know, you know into the context of your life You're like man, I've been more consistent than I've ever been. I'm eating right I'm making all these changes but because the metabolism is complex bodies are very different and again You don't know the whole story you lose 10 pounds, which would be a lot in a month probably more than you should But let's just say you do that now. You're not happy. You're like I suck good enough I suck man. This person lost 30 pounds. I look in the mirror and I made some changes But what the heck is wrong with me, right? And so it creates what it does is whatever insecurity you have It preys on it because you know how earlier we talked about identifying with the people in the picture Yeah, who you're identifying with is not the after it's the before 100% So who am I identifying in the before right? Well, if I was a kid, I'm identifying with the hard gainer skinny person Oh, that's hammering my insecurities, right? Or am I identifying with the overweight Mom middle-aged mom or the the overweight young ex-athlete or whatever they choose to portray, right? So that's my insecurity and what the 30 days the the transformation before and after pictures do is they take your insecurity And they prey on it. Well, this is why this is why marketing teams crush doing this I mean, they they have a small window, you know five What is it five to 15 seconds on average to grab your attention? And telling you the whole laborious story about the journey and all the way It's just not going to happen. And so what the quickest way is to hit you into the soft spot Hit you on your insecurity and make you feel bad about yourself and then sell you the solution That it's like marketing 101 And it's a it's a hell of a time being a business that is trying to do it in a different way When that's a proven formula and I'll tell you being honest It's been very tempting to to fall into that Being even told from the marketing team like listen, we'll double your sale Right. Well, we could we could get them in and then we'll teach them after that And it's just like it's so hard for us to do that Even if we know that our intentions are pure that once we get them into our network that we would then Teach them the proper way That that would be if they were willing to listen to the rest of what we're doing But what it'll do is it casts a wider net? And what we're going to catch more of the people that I didn't even want to learn Not only that but just people who are already in that cycle of self-hate, right? Right. So you're already in a cycle of self-hate and it's very hard at that point to get you to change those things So I'd rather not do that. I'd rather not promote self-hate because If you're exercising I mean how many times have I said this right? If you're exercising and changing your diet because you hate yourself It's not going to work because exercise is a punishment food is restriction or tasty foods are of award And that already is starting you're already starting off on this dysfunctional relationship with exercise and nutrition Which only leads to destruction. It only leads to fairly terrorize yourself for so long. That's right Now here's the next point and this is the this is one of the bigger points as to why marketing is the way it is Because the most consistent results that happen and what I mean by that is when you actually examine people that Do change their health in dramatic ways and not just change it But they maintain it for the rest of their lives, right? If you actually took people like that and interviewed them and I know people like that I've worked with them I've trained people who went from never exercising who had terrible diets who then threw a long Slow working on behaviors type process They became essentially permanent, you know, here we are 10 years out and I still talk to these people I'm still friends with them and they're still maintaining it. So that's still that's a pretty damn good success rate, right? The most consistent results don't happen in 30 60 or 90 days It happens later. You know, I tell the story of a friend of mine who he want to lose 35 pounds He's a friend of mine now. He's a client at first. He want to lose 35 pounds He was an overweight kid insecure, you know gain and loss way back and over and over again did the yo-yo thing Anyway, luckily he decided he wanted to do the things the right way I talked a lot about what we talked about in the show with him and I coached him and trained him in that way He lost 35 pounds in three months Three years after we started training, right? So we started training. He didn't lose the weight for three years Lots of small changes happened in those three year in that three-year process Then all of a sudden The the ones that really moved the needle finally clicked by the way, he's never gained the weight back They finally clicked and in three months the 35 pounds came off Like what kind of a before and after is that three, you know, three years and three months later Here's your before and after It the those changes are not depicted in these in advertising because if they if they were Nobody would buy that. Well, it's praying on another thing that we want expedient, right? Yes, we always quick pill. That's right. So that's the other part of these things is that you know that you're that you're doing that It's uh, it's tough man. It's tough being in a a business where we we sell the Sell people on how to help them and then to not be able to use the number one Probably one and two right between transformation and challenges Or arguably number one number two low-hanging fruit marketing tools That our space uses They're so effective. This is how effective they are that these before and after marketing Tactics have been around for long enough to where if you took the average person And you asked them objectively What do you think about these before and afters? Do you think this is sustainable? Do you think this is legit? Most people they and uh, that's not really really I don't know. It seems suspect Still works. Yeah, still gets them to buy something. That's how effective there's some emotional draw to it You know, like you said, it's it's that you project yourself into these people And if it's somewhat relatable, you just you can't help it even though, you know Like maybe some of these aren't like super legit pictures. I'm looking at but It it portrays this idea that this could happen and this is I think that I think it's subconscious, right? I don't think you even I mean maybe some people go. Oh my god. That's me. I could do that But I think a lot of people it just connects and they don't even know it Consciously. Well, because it's like you're watching I mean if you're well I mean this happens to me all the time when I'm watching like a weird which I knew what movie it was But I'll watch a movie and like it'll be like this feel good You know come back story or something and the kid will have Similar things that he went through that maybe I experienced in my child and I get all emotional Right and it's because I see my I know what's happening I see myself as the character That they're portraying in the show because there's something I can relate or identify with I don't actively go like that's me, you know It's just like it hits this thing that makes this connection And I think that just happens subconscious of people as they're going through all these before and afters They see someone that go man, that's that's so that's so true. Try doing this I don't know if you guys have done this watch a movie That you grew up watching as a kid Watch it as a dad or as an adult and then here's the funny thing that happens when you're a kid I had like for example, I watched the breakfast club with my kid And now when I watched that as a kid, I was all pro the students. I was all pro like yeah, that dickhead Principal what a jerk then I watch it with my kids and I'm like these kids are What is wrong with these kids? I'd be pissed off like they're smoking weed in there. They're freaking running through the thing degenerates Exactly. So you're no, you're a hundred percent right adam You identify with that stuff and so what before and afters are getting you to identify with Are your insecurities they're they're literally designed to make you feel like crap And to make you compare and then to sell you a false expectation It all happens instantaneously and it gets you to take an emotional action, which is to buy Yeah, their product or their service and the fail rate because of the way you start into that process is so high And this is again, these are the some of the reasons why we hate doing them now. Can we talk about? uh and I'd love just thrown at least one company under the bus but We started out talking about shreds because they were the most prolific Company that were using transformations and doing things Doctering and they got in trouble for photoshopping and doctrine So let's talk about this as a subject by itself Well, then let me share something just to kick that off then and forget because this was so eye-opening for me And I didn't know this until I got oh, I know what you're gonna say this blew my mind too Yeah, I didn't know this like this is like a real thing that happens. I found this out when I was competing And many of these supplement companies health companies anybody who's trying to sell a product that uses before and afters Actually hang out at the at the shows at all. We're all the competitors bodybuilding for this is mind blowing bodybuilding men's uh physique and and bikini and really they're they they are looking for a certain body type right They're looking for a demographic of people obviously if i'm selling some super jacked whatever i'm going bodybuilder like if i'm like this kind of more health I'm going to pick a body that's more like bikini or like that direction So anyways, they go there and they look for the the top five You know what they're looking for a lot of people on this. They're looking for the after picker. Yes This is the crazy. That's what they're shopping you and then they're shopping for the after picker and I've been approached this way Where I've been offered five thousand dollars. I think five and ten are the two different offers I've been made on this where a company will come up to me and say Hey, we'd like to pay you to do before and afters and i'm like, oh, well, you're a little late You know like i'm here already. They're like, no, no, no, no, we're gonna pay you to get perfect We're gonna pay to get fat Yep So we're gonna take the pictures right now as they are your afters And then all we need you to do basically is lay off the training for the next couple months And go ahead and eat in a surplus and enjoy yourself And we just want to document that and we'll show it in reverse. I remember when I crazy So I remember when I first figured that out, uh, I was I want to say 17 or 18 And I read an article by an anonymous bodybuilder I remember what the magazine was I think it was muscle media And he said that exact thing Then I went back and I looked at the before and afters that were in the bodybuilding magazines And everything became clear. Yeah, because you could see you know what a body looks like when someone's got a great muscle base Yes, and they just put on like 20 pounds totally and you can see that. Yes, and I trained I You you can real quickly start to put that together and it makes a lot of sense 100% I looked at it and I'm like, oh my god, this guy This is the before and this is the after. Yeah, this is the most Popular and common trick that they do with before. Well, think about it if from their perspective like you gotta do this If you're gonna pay someone could you imagine way easier? Could you imagine finding someone out of shape and say I'm gonna pay you $5,000. I need you to look like this Like how many people would even be able to do that? Yeah, now you gotta go find professionals You're paying for something that you don't even know what the outcome is gonna be right So this is already a proven like I see this as the after and I want to keep this as like when I'm displaying So now we just add the weight. I mean, I believe they take it all the way to this level like your say said company you head to the And we need a girl, you know, this this color hair this color eyes And about this size and this is what we're looking for so go find her Oh, we need a male. We want him to be about this size This color hair this color eyes like and then they go in they see they go look at the top five and go like There's our guy, you know, who did this a lot. I wonder if we can find these on online Their old ads for muscle tech muscle tech did this They did this with bodybuilders like johnny jackson and other guys and it would be a before and after But really what it was it was in season it was in season off season Bodybuilders and they would pay them a lot of money That's it's easy to convince these guys to do this because they don't make a lot of money No, and also they're like five or ten grand is a lot a lot of money Yeah, they're like, I'll take a couple months off. You're gonna pay me a hundred grand or whatever I was gonna eat cheeseburgers and chill for next month. Anyway, so it's a win-win for them It's crazy. And then there's a there's a second part to this that is Now, especially with the current technology. Oh, yeah So there's some there's some some before and afters right there very clearly you can see that they switch the before and after Well, yeah, and what we were saying that and I didn't know how to look like this until I or look You know look at this and see it As well as I do now Obviously trained long enough trained a lot of clients also come been competitive And I know a a good solid muscle base looks like when you just pile on, you know 10 15 pounds of fat versus Somebody who is built muscle and also burn body fat to get shredded that's coming from a really sedentary body You can tell a very very very obvious and clear once you know what to look for now You also have with current tech And it says Harder and harder to identify almost well, it's impossible for the naked eye Which is this photoshop technology And they make subtle changes to pictures that look profound to the human eye And and by the way Marketers have been doing this before the technology existed. They used to do like where they would airbrush photos Like the fashion in magazines definitely Well, dude, this is happening. I'm gonna go even further on this This is happening on a basic influencer level too big time I mean that's how shreds got called out so bad because of like the the devon physique guy and I think joey swoll They were they were just doctoring their own personal photos. It wasn't I they were made an example of encouraged to do that Because it's I mean, that's what they're selling right their body But they made they were made an example of they weren't the only ones. No, you know, I'm saying everybody Yeah, and it's still most popular and it still happens. I mean, I've told you guys before I've got you know nieces and stuff and nephews that They all use that face tune app and they do these little things to make You know, it look more dramatic or make their waist look smaller and then better And then they're pitching a product at the same time and you have no idea that that's Being subtly adjusted and there's this they justify it that magazines have been doing this forever So how is it? How am I any different? How am I different? Yeah, well, you got I guess one of you guys has to describe to like just If you were to get a good pump And good lighting and you can almost manipulate this like within a day, bro If I I'm not going to do this because again, this is a posture and everything I'm going to do I wouldn't do I'm not going to do this because I know this is against what we would say but if I posted my My flat non pump standing picture to my pumped picture post workout And I could easily sell those as before You know, I I'm actually challenging to do that because you're in the best shape to do this right now And can show probably the most extreme version of this out of all of us And I did this a long time ago on my instagram. So I actually would show people this I would be like this and I would Intentionally deplete. So I'd love for you to do this one day. Maybe do a fast. No, I don't even have to do that I'll do it. No, yeah, but I want to show somebody what how extreme you can make something in 20 That was my point was how extreme can I show use a difference in my body within 24 hours with no photoshop? No, nothing just manipulating Carbs water and a pump and I showed people like this crazy difference. Don't forget lighting and closing So yeah, so if you if you take and just deplete so either do a fast or carb deplete for a day or two And don't lift do a morning No pump no nothing photo in front of them you're flat, you know, no no pump no water no food or nothing And then literally the next morning Take the rest that day after you take that before picture load up on your food Carb up eat drink and then sodium up everything and then the next day Same thing carb calories and then get a massive pump and take a photo and put it in yours I would love for you to share that because I think you would show the most dramatic difference right now So I remember when and by the way when you lift the you take off the blinders to all the stuff Everything starts to become very obvious. I remember It was early 2000s and this is before the pre-workout market Even existed a lot of people don't know this but the pre-workout pre-workout Market as big as it is now didn't exist before there was no Pre-workout market the first one was like ultimate orange which came out in the 90s But it was that they really sell it as a pre-workout One of the best companies to do this was gaspari gaspari had was called super pump 250 was the name of the supplement And he promoted it as a very smart very brilliant marketing improves the pump like well Everybody likes a better pump and then what he did which I thought was so brilliant Is he did before and after the workout pictures? So he said before the workout After the workout and you would see this insane pump and you knew This is the same guy in the same day, but it doesn't matter. It was so effective I remember looking at those before and afters going. Oh my god He's literally selling how people look with the pump and saying it's because of this product Which is insane and he sold so many of those products and that market It literally exploded became this huge thing because you do look very by the way the more muscle you have The crazier your pump after looks right and we fill them up This is a lot of what they do like you could take someone and have them stand kind of like whatever Take that picture flat stand then you can have someone get a crazy pump Stand with a certain angle better lighting and it looks like there's 15 pounds really hard. Oh, yeah It looks like there's 15 pound difference in in muscle. They also do that with these before and afters They'll even go so far as to spray tan lines into people Yeah, you know that for every for every shade darker. You look a percentage leaner I saw that I saw an article a long time ago that broke that down that said that for every shade darker that you are It looks you get an x percent Paint like that crazy brown paint all over these competitors. Yeah in real life. You look so crazy But then on stage like oh that looks that looks kind of good Yeah, so I mean look here's the deal like no hate on companies and fitness people that use before and afters They are very effective just shaming. That's all I yeah, I do think just were better than you I do think a lot of them have have good intentions. I also think a lot of them have nefarious intentions. Nonetheless It's a very effective marketing tactic in the seven years mind pump has existed with the podcast and selling programs We've never really used before and after pictures and again This is why it it's so counter to our integrity And why we started in the fitness industry in the first place That we just can't with good conscious use them unless we figured out a way to do it that match with our integrity But we have yet to To do that so there you have it and in by the way and I do want to now I'm about to put the responsibility on the on the viewer and the listener Okay These these before and afters as bad as they are and the lies that they may sell or whatever They don't work unless we buy them. So as a consumer It's up to you to you know, we are conscious intelligent humans We're also animals and the struggle is always can I use my frontal lobe and my conscious to overrun or overrule this be this this Animal this animal instinct that makes me behave in ways that may not necessarily be Best for me And so as a consumer when you're going through social media or looking at products remember this Remember that you should unfollow everybody that you're if you're someone who's I mean I'm not going to tell people that are in the competitive world that are doing whatever But if you're the average person who just wants to be healthy fit in shape I would encourage you to unfollow people that are using their body daily as a way to Motivate you to get better shape. I think that's doing harm. Exactly. I think that's counterproductive Totally. Look if you like our information head over to mind pump free.com and check out all of our free Guides we have guides that can help you with almost any fitness or health goal You can also find all of us on instagram. So justin is at mind pump. Justin. I'm at mind pump salad Adam is at mind pump adam Hey, if you enjoyed that clip you can find the full episode here or you can find other clips over here And be sure to subscribe