 Another attack on the Abuja-Kaduna rail line as terrorists invade Giddan rail station. And the People's Democratic Party wants to distort President Buhari's achievements and to misinform Nigerians. This is coming from Minnesota information, Al-Hajjil-Lai Muhammad. Business Plus Politics and I am Kofi Bartels. Bandits have launched yet another attack on Giddan station on the Abuja-Kaduna rail line. The attack occurred shortly after the entourage of the minister of transportation Rotimi Amici passed through on their way to Rijana to conduct an inspection to determine the extent of the damage caused by the attack that occurred on Monday night. According to reports, a police car was set on fire while the Nigeria Railway Corporation personnel stationed in the area had to flee for dear life. It was also lashed that the terrorists blew a rail track and disrupted the movement of a train heading to Abuja. Security personnel were however able to bring the situation under control. Joining us to discuss this is former Senator Shehu Sani who represented the Kaduna Central. Joining us to discuss this is Senator Shehu Sani, former Senator representing Kaduna Central Senatorial District. Sorry, let me take that again. Go down, go down, sorry. Go down, go down. Keep going, keep going, keep going. No, no, no. Go. Joining us to discuss this is Senator Shehu Sani, former Senator representing Kaduna Central. Senator, thank you very much for your time and thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. All right. Are you surprised at the fact that we've had a second attack by these people we're calling terrorists in under 24 hours? Well, I cannot be surprised and I'm not surprised because the bandits have been operating freely between Kaduna and Abuja and the large expanse of land, the Savannah land between Nigeria and Kaduna State have simply become their operational base. All right. Senator, are you there please? The attack on Kaduna Airport rather at the very day they attacked the train, in the daytime they ransacked and sacked about 40 villages within the Kaduna Niger vicinity and thousands of people have moved to the jerry town which is next to Abuja as refugees and as such they hold so much attack on the Zuba barracks which is in Sulayja in Nigeria State. So they have been operating freely and the government, I would say, the war, they moved in droves of 233 motorbikes all in 1847 and they have been achieving all their goals, one of which was deploying up the rail track and we shouldn't be surprised that this was the second time this rail track was attacked. The last one in October last year which I happened to be one of the passengers they attacked the rail line but by the grace of God we escaped and since then the government has not taken any serious measure other than repairing the rail track. The trains doesn't have sensors that will detect whether an explosive was in the object's side of it. So they have been using, initially they have been using cows, a guard's cattle, to block the rail track but when they found out that couldn't hold by the trains they resorted to the use of explosives. So I wasn't surprised because up to today the government has not been able to succeed in in exterminating the group that have been unleashed by him within Kaduna and Nigeria State. You can recall that this was the same group that learned attacks and killed and kidnapped students of Grimfield University. They also kidnapped a student of Ferriere College of Forestry. They also kidnapped the Baptist, Bethel Baptist School in Kaduna. So they have been operating and up to today there has never been any action in terms of taking the war to the comes of the terrorists. Indeed, it's well documented that you narrowly, Senator Shea Osani, escaped with your life last year about six months ago when Vamdon was taken in that initial terrorist attack on the Kaduna Abuja rail track. Are there any similarities? Can you relate, when you've listened to the accounts of those who were victims, the survivors, can you relate with some of the things that they have been sharing with us as their experience from Monday night? Well, it would interest you to know that the attack happened in the very spot, the very spot, the last attack happened in October. It also happened to the same train that was scheduled to move in the 9th train, 6 p.m. 9 train. So almost everything is the same. The difference is that this one was tragic. It was successful on the hands of the terrorists. They have been able to kill, to injure and to kidnap people. The last one, it was impossible because somehow the train engineers, the drivers of the train, managed to move the train to the next station. But this time they succeeded. In a serious conflict, when what happened last October actually happened, what's supposed to have been done, what has been to make sure that necessary steps are taken in terms of protecting the rail track. And the very spot where this explosion happened. It's known by everyone to demand its routes. That's why they always move from Kedunat to Zafarashting. So we have not done what we need to do as a country, and security agencies have not done what they need to do. We couldn't have been here. If you Google, you will see that there was once a promise where a plane had been made that helicopters of the Nigerian Air Force would be used to escort the trains, which they started at a certain point it was abandoned. So no one can say that this is unexpected. Rather it was an avoidable tragedy. Would you say to the fact that just about 24 hours after the attack on Monday night, we woke up to hear of another attack on Tuesday on the same rail track in the same Kaduna state? That is what I'm telling you. From our own sources, what I say like this, what they did was simply the beginning. And it's the same group, the same group that attacked the train. It's the same group, the large attack at the Gidam station. So it has always been the case, the large attack in Gidam, and then people have to seek for way of communicating with them to pay ransom and get their own out. When have you heard, when have you heard that our security forces have ever rescued the hostages that were kidnapped within Kaduna and Niger Aziz? It never happened. So and you wonder, Kaduna and Niger Aziz are not a mountainous area. They're also not creeks. It's a flat land in Savannah. And how can, how can two, three hundred people on motorbikes, be moving in a plain land and we don't have the technology or the intelligence to detect these people and take the war to them? That is, that is very unfortunate. Answer, there's need to be answered. All these billions we are spending on security, we can't, we can't establish road stations and spillage up to monitor Kaduna, that is, I don't understand what we are doing. We cannot fight 21st century criminality with a 21st century strategy. All right. Senator, these groups of people you've talked about, of course, the Bethel Baptist kidnapping and attacks. You've talked about the Greenfield School attacks and all that. We've been hearing about, about bandits. We've heard about Kadol Russells. We've had about kidnappers in the Northwest and part of Nigeria. We previously have not really had a lot about terrorists. How come we've now moved from bandits to terrorists? Who are these people? You are a former senator, represented the people of Kaduna Central. So you are well aware of what's been happening. We know that in times past we've had, you know, in the tribal, ethnic, geopolitical, you know, fights and all that. So what's really going on in Kaduna State? Does this have anything to do with the farmers, headers issues with attacks, you know, on locals and so on and so forth? You know, with the conflict in Southern Kaduna and villages being ransacked, does this have anything to do with that? Well, it's important we try to understand the difference between these three. Farmers, headers, crisis or conflicts are conflicts between people who rear cattle and also farmers on their lands. So that one is known. Headers are headers. They have cattle and they move around and in the process they get confrontational with farmers because their cattle would feed on the farm products. Now, that is a different issue. And they are only, and their own is not about Kinnabin only. They have a political agenda and they have a religious ingredient of their own, and also recruit people to join them. But it's not recruit people to join them. They have their targets that they want to achieve. And terrorists are out to establish an Islamic State in Nigeria. But bandits are simply there for monetary reasons. They kill, they kidnap, they extort ransom. So it's good we try to differentiate between the two. But all of them are criminals and are also terrorists. But it's good to understand bandits who are there for financial reasons for their own is about extorting money and also terrorists who have religious inclination to what they do. So this is tuition. So in the land in Nigeria now it is sometimes even conflicts and confrontation between bandits and terrorists. Because terrorists and bandits are called control of territories in Nigeria and parts of the state. Bandits don't engage in, they have no way out there to make money. Terrorists are command and structure. Here's what it can also be. We apologize. Senator, we're having a bit of a network issue with you. If you could get closer to maybe a window, an open window or something, you know, or if you could wind down your window a bit, that will help so that we can get a better connection. But Senator, can you hear me please? Okay, so please continue with your point. Maybe you can just repeat what he just said because we had a bit of a poor connection earlier. Aha, what I said is that farmers' headers crisis about farmers and also headers. Headers are those who reoccur to and they engage in sometimes conflicts when they are cut across farm lands. So that's a different issue. But bandits are out to extort money by kidnapping and killing people and then collecting ransom. But terrorists are elements of the Boko Haramani where they engage in extortion, in preaching. Senator, are you there please? Also in pursuit of their religious side. Okay, so these current attackers or recent attacks were said to have been perpetrated by terrorists. Is that narrative correct? Hello? Yeah. Okay, Senator, I was saying that the recent attacks were said to have been perpetrated by terrorists. Is that correct? Senator, are you there please? Okay, we'll try to get back to Senator Shehussani formally representing the people of Kaduna Central in the Nigerian Senate. We'll take a break and when we come back we want to talk some more. Senator Shehussani is a leading voice especially on Twitter as far as the happenings in Kaduna State are concerned. He has been able to put out a lot of information. He's become a critical opinion stakeholder as far as this is concerned. We'll be right back and see if we can get a better connection with him. You're still watching Plus Politics. Welcome back. You're still watching Plus Politics on Plus TV Africa. And of course we've been looking at the situation in Kaduna State. It's an affording situation. State that has been one of the best and most loved states in Nigeria. State that has habbit Nigerians from all over the country. We talk about Kaduna, the city of Kaduna. We talk about Zaria. It's a very popular place. And of course not a few people have pointed out the fact that Kaduna State is home to quite a number of military formations. And if I had the time I would take you through those military formations. But you have of course the Niger Defense Academy. You have formations of the Nigerian Air Force. You have formations of the Nigerian Army stationed in Kaduna. Quite a number of them. And you can't even remember how crumb all of them into your head. And so what I would expect in that Kaduna State would be highly secure. Unfortunately it's been the theater of banditry and terror attacks. We had Senator Sheo Sani who was representing or who represented the people of Kaduna Central at the National Assembly. We've had some network issues with him. And we'll try very best to connect back with him. But this is some things he's been saying. He also put out a statement saying you know what? If you're traveling to and from Kaduna by road or by rail, that until you pass the villages of Rijana and Katari before you know that you have made your journey, anything short of that your life is on a scale of probability. So this is what they've been going through. Senator himself has also reminded us on this program how he himself was recently a survivor of a terror attack on that same train at that same spot as that which happened on Monday. And he only escaped with his life. He also said something that the Zuma military barracks is in Sulejah Niger State. It's supposed to provide security along the Kaduna Buja Road. It was attacked by bandits and Sikh soldiers lost their lives. So these are the things that we're talking about. But I'd like to bring in at this point another guest. He is of the People's Democratic Party. Of course the party has criticised the federal government without restraining or refraining following these attacks. And I'm talking about none other than Mr. Diro Odeimi who is a former Deputy Publicity Secretary of the People's Democratic Party. Diro Odeimi, good evening to you. Thank you very much for your time. Good evening and thank you for bringing me on. All right. Before we move on to a second topic, what are your thoughts on the ongoing situation in Kaduna State? Your party, the People's Democratic Party of which you are a former Deputy Publicity Secretary, has been criticising the Buhari-led federal government. What are your thoughts, please? Is there anything that PDP has said that they are not supposed to say? This is a government that came to power on the promises to Nigerians that the issue of security will be their priority. But since they have come on board almost seven years ago now, people that have lost their lives are more than the people they used to frustrate or castigate PDP during the campaign. It's quite unfortunate that the Minister for Information, Shiblai Muamel, who come and tell Nigerians and blame PDP for whatever is happening in the area of security. Nigerians are not fools. I would have respected a decent government to answer and own up that there is nothing they can do again regarding the promises they made to Nigerians about security. Nobody. Even the military we are talking about, either the soldier, the police, the Air Force, who is safe in this country, nobody. And if we are in this situation and all what APC could do is to say yes, nothing is happening in the country yet, they are on top of the situation. Upon all the money voted for security, they are still telling us that terrorism could not be fought with rigor. I think it's a shame on this country and it's quite unfortunate. Mr. Debi, indeed you've pointed out the fact that this current administration came on to power with the promise to to right the wrongs of the People's and Democratic Party administration, where in the time of the PDP before powers rested from them, terrorism or terrorists were planting flags in states in Nigeria like Niger State, which is now set to be controlled by bandits. Does the People's and Democratic Party have a moral standing to criticize the APC, bearing in mind you left a hundred over Nigeria to Buhari that was almost taken over in the northeast by terrorists. Terrorists were planting flags and taking over swaths, local government areas in the northeast. If you look into the statistics of what is happening now, the ratio at which bandits and terrorists are attacking people in this country, you will see give kudos to PDP that you know they tried their best. And as a matter of fact, promise is a depth and by the time General Buhari was coming into office, he gave the impression that as a former military head of states, as a former military man, he has the solution to the security issues in this country. And it was on that promises, it was on the basis of that that they said they were able to win election. So if by this time you are still comparing the error of PDP to what is happening in the APC, they are not you are not being feared to Nigerians, not only to PDP. This is not a matter of PDP, whether you are PDP or NPP or you are, it is, we are talking about life now. Whether we like it or not, the statistics of people that lost their lives don't, it is changed itself. You know, they are women being like you and me, it could have been anybody. So if you are now playing politics with us and blaming the error of PDP and comparing it to them, we are not being feared. If you promise that you are coming into power and into office because you know you are capable of winning the war against terrorism in this country, and you are not able to achieve that, why are you blaming PDP? Why are you comparing it after almost seven years in office? Let's be sincere, let's be fair. There's no justification for that and there's no reason for it in any way. Diro Demi, there's some people who have alleged that all that is happening in terms of whether they are band-aids or terrorists or kidnappers or carouselers, that all these are politically motivated by a section of the polity in Nigeria that wants to bring the APC-led federal government into dispute and make them unpopular just ahead of the 2023 general elections. And of course, what do you say to that? The genesis of this terrorism, a boundary tree, if you remember, was a statement credited to President Buwari when he said if he did not win that election, monkeys and baboon would be dredging blood, which alleges it. Terrorism was already in Nigeria then and it's been documented that that statement didn't mean that. We are talking of the political inclination into terrorism now. What I'm trying to put across to you now is the fact that if the president said that before he came into power, then the question is what is the genesis of terrorism? We can as well say they use terrorism as a tool through which they develop a kind of a propaganda against BDP to come to office. If you come into office through propaganda, you will need a lot of propaganda to sustain yourself. That is exactly what is happening to them now. They cannot use the same propaganda they used to come into office to sustain the lies and the black men they did to PDP to win the election. So where is the correlation? And if they have the fact that PDP or whoever are the sponsors of Bukwara and terrorism, they are in government, they are in power. What has stopped them from making arrests? What has stopped them from declaring them or making or pronouncing them publicly? It's as if they don't have the solution to the problem and what they can do is just to blame whoever, especially PDP. Okay. What were the people's democratic party? In fact, I should ask it this way. Thus the people's democratic party have what it takes to turn Nigeria's fortunes around and fix the security problem in the country. It is our strategy and it's going to be part of the key issues that we are going to throw to Nigerians and let them know that having stayed out of office for almost 80 years now, we are more than prepared. We have our strategy and by the time we start our re-campaign, we will tell Nigerians how we want to solve that particular problem. But if we start disclosing it now, it's possible for APC to steal our manifesto and ideas. And that is the key word and that is the strategy we want to use to destroy them in 2023. So we have the strategy. Thus the PDP have, because of course, these things will not be cast in stone. These things will be dependent on who emerges as the flag bearer of the people's democratic party at the end of its primary ethnic process is starting in April, ending in June by Aineka Shadlow activities. If the people's democratic party is able to produce a candidate, a flag bearer, and that flag bearer wins the 2022 and 2023 elections, then of course, we would judge a person based on their credentials. So looking at the names that have been coming out, looking at the candidates or the aspirants that have been buying forms or that are having forms bought for them, because that's what's happening now. You're laughing. It seems funny to you. But do you think these names, we have seen by hearing Atikua-Bubakar. We hear the likes of former House of Reps speaker and governor of Sokota State, Tambua. We hear the likes of Samaki. We hear the likes of Atikua-Bubakar. We hear the likes of Yens Ongbike and so on and so forth. Do these aspirants have what it takes to fix the insecurity problem in Nigeria? Please congratulate the people who have for having eminent personalities in their fold to govern Nigeria. You see, all the names you have mentioned, can you tell me which of them is not capable to rule this country successfully? There are men of timber and caliber and people with experience, people who know Nigeria and inside out, people who at a point in time have been in office and they know if there is any mistake, they know where the mistake is. And in PDP today, there has been a committee of 31 eminent personalities to look at the zoning arrangement. But so far, if we base the candidates on the number of people that has come out to obtain form, we are happy that not a single one of them is not capable. Okay, all right. But these are people who have been in government in one form or the other and we are where we are today? Of course. The APC used propaganda against PDP to get into office. But Nigerians have realized that mistake. They have seen that APC lied to them. We are about their manifesto, about the promises and about what they are not capable of doing. Mr. Day, I mean, things were not rosy then either. In 2015, things were not rosy. People were not happy. Can you compare what is happening now to what is happening then? You see the issue of oil or the economy that you want to talk about, we are talking about security. It's a failure. We are talking about economy. It's a failure. So tell me, are we not better at Nigerians than now? Of course we are. Okay. So how did these individuals you're talking about perform? Can you, I wouldn't want, I don't know you, I don't think you want to mention or single anyone out. But the day any of them perform to the extent that they kept Nigerians, left Nigerians happy at the end of their tenure. We are comparing the error of PDP to what is happening now. That means don't even understand your error, don't even understand Jonathan's error. Nigerians are better. And these are your pretors at that, at that time. Jonathan did not claim to be a misunderstanding of knowledge. He employed people who know a lot about economy and he was able to hold on and sustain the economy of Nigeria. There was no suffering. People were happy. And the same thing that, you know, we happen when we get there because we have realized our mistakes, we are left ever. And we have designed a strategy which is going to be part of the manifesto. We are going to show to the people when the campaign starts.