 the Institute is delighted to be working again with Irish aid on this critically important agenda, and we're really looking forward to the series that the minister has kindly agreed to become here today to launch. So, without any further ado from me, it's my privilege and my honor to hand over to David Dunhu, former Irish Ambassador to the UN, to introduce the minister and to chair the proceedings today, but thank you all for your attendance. Thank you very much, Alex. And it's a great pleasure for me to be here to welcome you to today's event where we're delighted at the Institute to have Sean Fleming, Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs with responsibility for international development and the diaspora. As for the minister will talk to us about Ireland's development and cooperation priorities this year, with particular emphasis on our commitment to the 2030 agenda. This is the inaugural event in this year's Development Matters lecture series at the IIA, which is supported by Irish aid. And the minister will speak for roughly 20 minutes and then he will take a question and answer session. So, I should say that we're delighted to have both the in person audience today, and also those who have joined us online. A few housekeeping points. Both the minister's initial address and the Q&A session will be on the record. Those taking part online are warmly invited to submit written questions or comments, challenges, observations at any point, and we will do our best to get to them afterwards. And those online have the Q&A function on Zoom, which you'll see on your screen. You're encouraged also to tweet using the handle at IIA and the hashtag development matters. We're also live streaming the event. And so a warm welcome to those who are joining us via YouTube. I want to introduce the minister of state. The minister was appointed just last December to this new role, moving from the Department of Finance where he had previously been a minister of state. Michael Lee Schoffley was first elected to Doyle Aaron in 1997. We're delighted to have him with us as guests today. But first I would like to ask Michael Gaffey, the director general of the of Irish aid to say a few words. Michael. Good afternoon, everybody. I think my role today is a slightly unnecessary one so I won't keep you for too long because we are here to hear from the minister on on the priorities of Ireland's development program and policy in the over this year and the next year and it is a both an interesting and challenging time, although I suppose you could always always say that. First of all, to say it's great to have David here because I was in New York last last week, and we are now preparing for the SDG review summit, and everyone was in the adoption of the SDGs in 2015 when David as Ireland's ambassador in along with the ambassador of Kenya, played such an important role in bringing the SDGs to life, as it were. So it's great to have David here at this at this point. And I know he keeps in touch with the work. And we just want to say that for us in the Department of Foreign Affairs in Irish aid. This forum is really important, and we are really pleased to have a program, which we've now agreed for the next three years of development matters and I would just hope that this forum becomes one in which the issues of development, the issues of humanitarian crisis of politics and security and of climate come together in the way that we are trying to do. All of us internationally and in our programming, but to have a forum like this in Dublin where we can bring leaders from around the world leaders and development together to to to contribute to that debate. I think is an invaluable opportunity. And today we will hear from Minister Fleming whom David Donahue has has has introduced. I just want to say that it was it was a great privilege and a pleasure to travel with the minister on on his first visit to programs in Africa in the week before Easter where we went to Malawi and and and Zambia. And it was also a great privilege then to hear President Biden talk in such a fusive terms while here in Ireland on the work that Irish aid is doing, and on the cooperation that we are developing with us aid. So that's enough for me. I would just say I don't know I'm handing over now to David or to the minister know I'm handing over to the minister, Minister Sean Fleming, you have the floor. Thank you all for the kind invitation to speak here today. And is the Mike Louden often seems a bit louder, whatever. Anyway, and I'm very pleased to be my colleague Alex, and we are good friends for many years as good to meet David and thank you for the introductory words there by Michael. It is a privilege for me to attend and be part of the development matters lectures series to discuss Ireland's priorities for international development for 2023. First of all, I'll have to say about my script there's kind of two half the first half is the depressing half, can you all the problems in the world that you want to know. So, and the second half is maybe a little bit about what we're going to do to try and help improve the situation. So if I see on the heads going down and skip the next page or so so you can understand what it is the reality of what we're having to face. We wouldn't be as serious about her work if everything was perfect in the globe. So obviously, we are the lucky people where we live, compared to some of the other countries. So I do want to say 2023 is proving to be another very difficult year for collective efforts to fight poverty, humanitarian crisis and inequality worldwide. Eventually this means it's going to be another difficult year for many people across the world what first turn an income to put food on their table and to live in peace and with dignity and many people don't have on those available to them that we take for granted here for so long. So 2023 is one of the world's more difficult years and we do have our conference in New York in September for the Sustainable Development Goals Summit and to take stock of our collective efforts for Sustainable Development Goals which Michael has been referring to. And we have made great efforts on the number of locations and what this has been undermined I think by some of the issues that have happened in recent years. At that conference along with Qatar Ireland will be appointed as the co facilitator of the political declaration for the summit so Michael that's a very busy couple of weeks for you and your colleagues. Okay, the likes of us can show up at the end but you have to do the work in between and all the coming and going, but look at Ireland have that outstanding diplomats and they will be able to work very effectively and we have great confidence in the Irish staff that we have out there, and I think people are fully aware of that. So look at over the last 12 months, we have continued to grapple with the effects of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and we are still feeling the effects here today and in most countries in part of the world. And what that shows to me, more than anything is, and I think because of the increasing wealth in a lot of the areas there's a growing level of dependence on each other. I mean, most countries produce for themselves, didn't do much trade didn't do much exports, didn't do much imports, and if something happened somewhere else in the global, I might have affected them too much. But now with a greater level of independence or lack of independence in terms of food supply, we're immediately affected and supply chain which is a word I think everybody knows about is now having a tremendous negative impact when we have difficulties on supply chain, something we wouldn't have had in previous decades, but it's very much there. So food and energy prices worldwide remain elevated, and the spread of conflict and violence and sudden weather events which is most important are causing serious problems to the people who are already most vulnerable in the world. And the end result is devastating people are starving malnourished. And we know that women and girls disproportionately are affected here, and over 345 million people are facing high levels of food insecurity this year alone a quarter of a billion people are more which is a phenomenal figure, and it's truly scandalous that we're in this situation and at this stage. I witnessed firsthand the human effort and the effects of global shocks during my visit to Malawi, as Michael has already mentioned, in February cycle and Freddie shattered the lives of many rural communities out there, and 800,000 were had to flee their homes, and in the country that was already suffering development challenges. And I came away from that trip was a profound appreciation of the resilience of the rural communities and the strength of women and girls in particular. And what I will say about that trip to Malawi. It was really taken aback by it. And my first day. I, I actually, before I left my wife said possibly we like I said, you know, I think like Ireland maybe 60 or 100 years ago. You know, just put that in your head and that's what it's like. So I followed her back on the second night there and I said what I said to you before I left was wrong to like Ireland before the famine. So it is like Ireland before the famine, people that maybe three acres of land that they're digging, you know, by hand which of us and spawns raw potatoes, and some, some trader in the local town will come and buy the projects and they depended on that trader, and further entire income. It is almost at subsistence level. And what really struck me in Malawi, I didn't see a single tractor, not one single tractor in a whole country that's living and producing food. And that is like Ireland was before the famine I came back. And we've all seen the pictures of Ireland in the family that is Malawi today and one of the poorest countries in the world. So we really, really have a long way to go. But Irish aid is helping in enormous ways out there and I'll just give you one particular example we have a social cash transfer. So despite that, I great faith that we can almost jump not just the generation in terms of develop maybe a century in, you know, in a relatively short period of time, and that social cash transfer is administered to our embassy. And where it means we went out to a particular village and I think there was I think about 15,000 people had a little card bank card to the master card a bid and got the contract to give the cash and the people in the most remote area. We were able to put money into that for them every single month directly from Ireland through the Irish Embassy. It was roughly a couple of hundred euro a year we were giving them which was equivalent of a couple of months income for how for their houses and it went to one house. She was a lady and she the husband that I joined COVID and she's six children in school. And she was most grateful and she said she was keeping that money for school fees. So even in the midst of all that she knew she had to educate her children with fees were involved. And when I looked at that cash card in operation, they could bring the card to the local bit like a mini credit union, and they're able to bring the card up and I sat with some of the officials who were volunteers doing the processing work, and they were able to pay a bill. If they had the bill to pay of, you know, in the local shop, they were able to put money aside for saving or they were able to withdraw cash there and then. And they were a remarkable situation that they were able to do that in a country where only 10% of the houses have electricity to start with. So it just shows you how new technology can actually help in the country like that. And I say that as an example of what you know we are actually doing underground. We are doing this job so you can tell me 100 stories like this, which I'm telling you today, what I do want to say they do have an impact on us politically, when when we do see that. And what's interesting about Malawi is that our aid, our aid programs are generally done to the NGOs, very big well established NGOs that we're here and have a massive footprint worldwide are through EU programs are through the EU, but in some cases like in Malawi we're still doing it directly through the embassy. So in a country like that, we have the, I would say 50% of the embassy work was dealing with the project so they were working with local partners and through the embassy, and maybe sometime there will be NGOs underground them to do the work, but in the meantime we're doing it directly as embassy staff, and it was remarkable to see, and the linkages they had within those people. And to say about some of those countries, they're a little bit more advanced than us and when it comes to issues of gender. And as I said, in all of these countries that we have seen that I visit and spent a week with the president in Senegal as well earlier in the year. So, you know, of women and children women and young girls suffering the most, because we're seeing in a lot of countries. Still, I suppose very traditional old way of looking at it, and modern father in the house, the new did not was going to get married and go somewhere else. So why am I spending educating her she won't be here to look after us when we get old. And they're keeping them at home to work. And you can see the implications of that straight away. But another way is some of the countries have visited at a greater gender balance in the politics and national parliament and we have here. So, on the one hand, we think they were behind but in another way, they're actually more advanced and I think on my trips so far, I've met more female government ministers and I met male government ministers. Because in those countries, you know, somebody that feels this inappropriate thing to do the pass along and that's the end of it. The next election is going to be, you know, minimum of 40 or 50% women are 50 or 40% men as the case may be, and they can achieve it very quickly, whereas a country like ours were 100 years on and we're in a cheerful position when it comes to gender balance in politics, both locally and nationally. And that's something we have to address ourselves here. We're doing it in stages, but we haven't made a progress at some of those countries. So I say that you, by the way, and also, I think it goes without saying a big issue that we've had to deal with is as a result of the outcome of the Ukrainian invasion by Russia with 85,000 Ukrainians here in Ireland now at the moment. I'm very pleased that I think there's almost 20,000 of those in schools at the moment are certainly 20,000 of those people working and many of them will want to contribute as just a personal observation. I see a lot of those people wanting to stay here in the long term to settle here for a couple of years, the children are in school, eventually get full time employment, and then they'll be on their own, as in housing and looking after themselves, and I don't see them all rushing back in the immediate future. I'll just put it that way. And that's the way the world, you know, when our people left years ago, sometimes they never came home. Yes, so more so now, this younger generation, they're better educated, their flights, they can come home for weddings and family events. And we don't have the same sense of loss when people leave like we did in previous occasions. So we will have to see how a day Ukrainian people unfold, but like 85,000 people seems a very big figure. But I look at my friend, the ambassador from Brazil, we have 70,000 Brazilians in Ireland and are more and seamless, you know, a seamless integration and we've been very, very fortunate up to now because the Irish are generous people, and it goes back to the family. We all had to emigrate, take the ships or whatever they were to leave the country and never come back. So it's in our psyche and our DNA to understand helping people from countries that are suffering like we would have done in previous generations. And I also want to say that an increasing proportion of our ODA is being channeled through the European Union and Team Europe is very important for us because we don't have the expertise to handle on this. And sometimes it's better to be coordinated at a new level, because I think every country doing its own operation, which is very good but they can be crossed over there can be gaps that can be duplication. And I think it's more effective to be able to do it better. And I think that's very important from our point of view. And as I say, our international partners are very important to us as are the other NGOs that we work with on an ongoing basis and I'm delighted to see our new funding scheme for Irish NGOs got off the ground this year, the Irish Civil Society partnership and that's very important. And with a budget of 500 million euro for 2023 to 2027, this will provide our partners with the flexibility and predictable funding, they need to ensure that their policy programs can be fully implemented. When I came into this role, I met all the, not every one of the NGOs and I brought the major NGOs, the chief executive on a one by one basis, because I needed to do that to get a full understanding of what each of them are doing. And I was struck with the issue of gender diversity was very much part of everyone's work program. But I noticed that some of the organizations met, didn't have what I will call an appropriate level of diversity on their own boards, and especially representatives from the Southern Hemisphere. And we found that I was concerned, and initially that you know we're all with the funding from Northeast Europe, heading down to the Southern Hemisphere. And we need people from the Southern Hemisphere on the board to direct us and give us their input rather than being seen just from the Northern Hemisphere. A number of the organizations met had already done that. And I felt this was doable. So I've asked this year in the department, and that this be one of the conditions for NGOs in the future to receive funding. And I'm pleased that the progress I'm told in the department, a number have already come forward and said they will be able to do it within 12 months. So others say it will take us the second year to get it done. So I'll be very pleased during the lifetime of this government that we will have a proper geographic balance on the boards of all our NGOs and it's important that we do that as well. Look at it as a very tragic year. And, you know, with the various crises and not going to go through them all but the earthquake that we've had in Turkey and Syria and go last 32 local staff, you know, in Turkey and especially Syria at that time. And that's an enormous blow for any organization of approximately hundreds after their families were probably in in buildings that were immediately affected by the earthquake. So it does affect us and our operation and our, and our, our support goes to trucker and the families of those people who lost their lives out there. So there is a difficult job to be done and people who are on the front line, like many of our staff and the NGO staff, you know, are at risk a lot of the time and it's something we don't think about back here, which is important that we make that point and we not just move on and forget about it. It is important that we do that. So look at the Horn of Africa has suffered and as you all know from failed crops over the last five or six years and that has after over 30 million people in the severe starvation. And at the new nutrition for growth summit in December 2021 Ireland committed over 800 million euro to support nutrition programming over the next five years and I think that will be a very important plan as part of the global action plan on child wasting. And I think that's something that we need to deal with very specifically here as well. Also closely linked to the transformation of the food system is the need to address climate change. The prize I got this far into the script without mentioning climate change but it's, you know, it's implicit in everything we're doing, you know, we don't have to keep saying it, because it's implicit and as part of our everybody's work program, and we shouldn't have to reiterate it, but unfortunately we will continue to do it for the foreseeable future. And that cop 26 in Glasgow, and then he showed me on Martin says the target for providing 225 million per year for climate finance to developing countries by 2025, and we were well below the 100 million and that seemed an enormous increase, going from under 100 million to 225, but we're committed and determined to achieve that. And I think the figures this year will be about 120 or 130 million, which is a significant increase on where we were just two years ago. And if we continue increasing it at that rate, we will achieve that target and I hope and expect that that can be delivered because we've given a very strong commitment on that area. I just want to talk about one other example of where it was. When I was in Zambia, and when I went from Malawi over to Zambia different different country, not as poor. It's a bit like a bit more Western, there's well off people in the cities and the ministry went outside the speed limits. And it is very, very poor, but obviously there was poverty and decisions as well. And we have some programs out there through education and a business at a particular school called the Linda Community School just outside La Saca. And it was a school of 1500, what I would call primary school students and 1500 secondary school students, and I met the most enormous for fantastic choir, when it went in there. And to greet me and I would honestly say they would win any school choir competition, not just in Ireland anywhere in Europe. I think to know how to sing and dance very well out there, but definitely it was an enormous high standard. And it was an example of their ability. But then anyway, we went in and we found that obviously a lot of poverty there in the schools, there was two shifts, the morning shift in the evening shift in the school to facilitate and get best use out of the school buildings. And in the book in the library have been paid for by Irish people, and some by private sponsors from Ireland and some to ourselves. And then in the classroom, everyone had their, their small habits iPad to work on, because they didn't have books for people to bring and, you know, somebody use the iPad in the morning and somebody else would have access to it for the afternoon, and they all had their different passwords. And I go in and look at one particular classroom. Maybe it's because my mother was a teacher. And so they made to know what goes on in this classroom so first of all I went into the classroom. There's 103 students into one classroom with one teacher, and that was a good class 103. And, and everyone them had their own iPads, and they were about. They call the forecast nine 10 year olds roughly that age, but I said, and they're studying maths and so being nosy as I was I asked the teacher what kind of level of maths are you doing. But went over anyway and had a good way of teaching which you will know, like in Ireland, you know, your, their programs and there's, there's elements to be done for each term and you just move on to the next term to the next schedule whereas they had a program that you only moved on to the next when you completed all the work of the, the schedule you were at at the moment the stage you were at so some people could move quickly and some took longer but it mean everybody who got up the line understood what happened before. And nobody would be left behind and not knowing the earlier stages of the process so I found it a good form of education but anyway, I asked the teacher to show me so went over and sat down beside one nine year old, and he opened up his tablet and he was, and I'll give you the example of what he was doing he was multiplying as 6.75% by two and three quarters. So, this was in fractions he was able to convert in both ways in either way he said and get the figure, I was quite sure as well in the teachers at home and the nine year olds in Ireland couldn't do that today. Okay, so that gave me great hope. And in that we can bring the true education people to jump maybe two generations in a few decades, and that's an enormous and I left the room and I said, I better check this out at home, because they're going to be passing this out in 10 or 20 years time, which is why we're out there to bring them all up to the level of income and sustainable living and quality of education that we have. So they're just specific examples that I have seen from Irish aid, and I concentrate on the human stories as well as just a macro picture because you all know the macro picture here the whole time as well. So, I do also want to mention that Ireland was a founding member of global partnership for education in 2021, and we committed 60 million to support their efforts to ensure education for also 2025. And that was manifested much by our commitment to ensuring access to education is maintained in the depths of the crisis manifested by your strong support for education cannot wait program, and I think it's very important that I think you all know those of to come with to look after first, and I know what you level it was that ministers meeting there recently, and we were a number of countries were very strong on continuing those programs, or the number of other EU countries were keen to help the neighborhood countries, you know, in Eastern Europe, and that I came back, you know, more than surprised with the depth of the view of helping countries nearest to us in Europe more so than there was that behind, but Ireland and several other countries were very strong on where we should be. And I know we have a cost of living crisis. But, you know, when you're as poor as the people in Malawi, they deserve it before some of the rest of this do so I think we have to be firm and hold fast and use our influence at European level, ensure the programs that are in place are not funding the virtue to other cases that are all very worthy, but not as extreme as the cases I've just been referred to as well. And I also want to say that in my visit to and Senegal earlier in the year with the president was there for a week, and he was the first head of state from outside of Africa to be invited to the event he spoke and opened it and he was there for the closing several days later, and he made the point very clearly, and that two things, and as a phrase of use 100 years ago we got your political independence. And but even after political independence, the vast majority of our trade was with the UK they told us what to pay for beef or make or whatever it was. So we're really a dependency, we had their same currency and everything so we're highly dependent on them. And two things happened about 50 years ago that has transformed Ireland. One was their entry into the EU had opened up Ireland. And now the rest of the you are bigger or biggest trading partners in the UK will be our second largest partner. And the second thing with free education at second level. So education is the key to the future. And that's why it was so keen to see so many projects that have visited first hand, we're based on education. Because if you don't, the people aren't educated, they won't make progress. And in 50 years time that we're doing it is still doing it today. And it's no good, just given the money and equipment, they need to be able to do it themselves. We're held, we're there to help people help themselves. Not far as to be permanently out there doing it with them. So education is most important. So I think I will close now at this stage. I've skipped away from some of the macro stuff that I think every time we've met we've spoken and given you some of the personal experience that I have seen. And I think it's very important that we don't lose sight of the personal stories and I do believe one of the reasons why Irish people are supportive and very supportive of Irish aid project is they get the human story. They don't get the cop figures, they don't get the EU summits, they don't get the global policy, but they get the human story. And I think anytime we're talking to an audience at home, if you give them a human story example, everybody gets that. And I think Irish people have been generous with their own voluntary fundraising, but they've also been generous in supporting us as politicians in ensuring we continue to increase our funding for overseas aid as we have been doing. And I look forward to continuing my work in this department and make sure that we make a real difference despite the difficulties that are out there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much minister that was really a fantastic presentation and clearly different delivered from the heart and mostly for minister who's only in his first months in office. You're on top of the brief and no time and congratulations. I mean, a lot of what you said resonated deeply with me, especially the idea that we have to look after the needs of the poorest people, the poorest of the poor. It's not obvious in aid programs internationally that that will always be the priority but I think it sounds as if you will keep us as our as Ireland's priority and I must say that that's very, very encouraging. So I'd like to invite anybody who wishes both here in the room and online to put any questions, comments they would like to the minister. And yes, please, Rosario. Thank you minister. And that was wonderful, wonderful speech and especially the points and gender resonated very strongly, both from my own experience in the developing world, but also, but also here at home as well. So, well, well done. Really enjoyed. Yeah, Sean and I are cousins. I knew about it this morning was. She missed the first train from car, but she was getting the second train out so from the center for global development. Yes. And I'm thrilled that relative of mine is now the minister for international development desperate so that's really, really happy to know that. And I think it's we've missionaries in the family as well so it's probably in the blood. Yeah, my comment is, I suppose just how close are we to meeting our target in relation to 0.7% which we committed to so sorry going back to the macro now, because I love them, I love the micro myself having spent a lot of time in the industry, but just wondering, you know, is it within reach within the next few years or how close to me, you know. Okay, I'll answer that straight up. And the amount of funding we provide for overseas aid has increased every year, consecutively for the last nine years. I'm very pleased with that. Then in relation to the, the 0.7% target. That's a very ambitious target I think when we set that target they, the monetary value of that was at a level that is easily achievable. And so, through our vote in our department we spent about seven or eight hundred million a year, we spent about 500 million through the Department of Agriculture and food aid programs around brings it up to about 1.2. But I think you will all know as well that under humanitarian aid as OECD level, they want people who are assisting people who are coming into their country from a country where they're fleeing, but it's a war or a conflict or for international protection. When they arrive for the first 12 months in the country is deemed to be under OECD use part of our percentage to achieve that. So what I would say is that overall last year the OECD draft figures say we've given about 2.4 billion last year. A lot of it about 900 million of that was specifically for the Ukrainians who arrived in the first year, and the OECD says look we're helping the people with food and accommodation and shelter but we're not doing it where they're fleeing from what we're doing it here. So in the first year, we were at 2.4 billion, which is 0.6%, which is a phenomenal figure. Now, it is possibly inflated because of the Ukrainian situation, and maybe that was the ones off, but the figures wouldn't have been that close at all. And in fact, because of Ukraine and the costs we're incurring almost a billion last year, we would be at 0.6, but we don't want to be at 0.6 because we have continuing crisis and people coming into the country as I said the 85,000 people and the increasing people seeking international protection. So the numbers are still coming from Ukraine, which has reduced numbers, and some of that will be counted this year as part of the first 12 months. But I think everybody's aware of the increasing numbers for international protection have now taken a big leap upwards. So the cost of providing food accommodation and shelter for those is going to increase dramatically this year. And in fact, I would say for 2023, I don't know or nobody knows, because we haven't, nobody can estimate how many people will come from Ukraine this year, and how many people will seek international protection. But it's one of those budgets, it's a demanded budget, if they arrive here, we're obliged to deal with them under international law. So from a statistics point of view, I would say we were remarkably close last year. The reason we find it difficult to get up to the 0.7 is because on the other hand, we have so many foreign American multinational based here, whose income is classified as the income and part of our GMP. So on the one hand, we have, you could say some people say an artificially high GMP by which we want to measure that 0.7% against because of the American multinational that are here. And it does amount to a lot of trade, but because they're hit quartered here, it does mean we pay a much harder to achieve that because the increase in GMP, we have all seen that it does on the other hand mean our contribution to EU funded programs is based on our GMP. And that does mean that because they are here, we are making a higher contribution to the running of the EU because they're based on that figure and some of the EU programs that we're talking about as well. So at this stage, I don't think anybody knows the answer, it depends on the number of people who arrived this year, but definitely the money that we're giving is increasing very substantially year on year on. And the presence is often hard to follow the growth in GMP in Ireland because of we do factor in all the multinational that are a quarter here into the figure. I'm answering the question I think is fully as a candidate stage you know, okay, thanks. Thanks for the area. I want to appreciate the minister and I'm sure you'll be doing your very best with government colleagues to, to keep a forward trajectory later in the year. There's a question from Breeder Gahan from concern. What about future investment in health for development and preventing future pandemics. You know, health as wealth, and COVID-19 has demonstrated this. I mean minister you talked earlier about number of the priorities for Irish aid and education is one and hunger and nutrition, but health courses is equally compelling. What would you say to that. I think for first, our first priority generally, obviously humanitarian issues arise immediately. And then in our long term planning education has always been important because we see the value of it ourselves here, but health then comes immediately into that and I know I think it's officially gone, but there's a lot of post COVID impacts in many other countries, and they still have color and malaria in many other countries. And we do have programs that we are working with in relation to each of those serious health issues. And we do find in some of the countries that we are actually providing support in their health institutions directly. Yeah, in terms of staffing of doctors and nurses and care staff. So it is, I think, I'd be honest and say, our long term view is education is most important because that's for the future January and health then is our second priority. But now and again we get the vertebrate immediate human and terrarium crisis like earthquakes and, and the likes, but definitely on those areas have just mentioned vaccination programs are very key issue for us. Because you have to have children healthy going to school. And that's where we're working at. And some of the areas we have a, I think I met an awesome one of my travels and she was doing 2000 vaccines a week like it was just I tell you, she'd have vaccinated our learning or say if she was here in our colleagues for a few weeks, you know, but one lady told me she'd done 2000 vaccines in a week. So they were just lined up and so look, we're doing, we're consistently doing that, but I'm just saying all day, the climate issues and the floods and the, and the earthquakes, not to mind the wars are making it a difficult year. You know, and we have been set back, like some of the programs we've been made to be lost in some of those countries, because it was a situation, and they've been picking up from where we were before. And that's nearly our priority in some of those countries now. Just a question of my own, Mr. If I may. I mean, I would I would say it covers both humanitarian and development needs. Do you think it'd be possible to kind of keep a balance between the two over the next few years because the number of humanitarian crisis is proliferating. And we have to address those needs as well. But on the other hand, it's equally important to to keep lungs and medium to long term development theory at the forefront. Yeah, that's good. That's a good question. And the answer to that is it depends, because we don't know what's going to happen next month or next year. But I will say is one good thing we have started doing this year and you will all know this to the NGO. We're now doing multi annual funding. So people can now do not come in year by year by year. So the value of multi annual funding is for those NGOs when we say here's funding for the next three four years. We are now being committed once they deliver. So in a way, I would have said to most of the people making maybe I'm making trouble for myself in the department. But most organizations should try and have multi annual funding program because you have certainly we're then committed. If it's in a multi annual program as easy or keep it ring fence in there and not have to deal with a humanitarian aid. And I would feel that's very important because it gives you an opportunity to plan, implement, get staff. And it makes our job easier in the departments as well. That being once we're satisfied with a three or four year program, we just have to review it each year. So my answer to that is lock in the money to multi annual programs. Are there questions here that yes please. Yeah. Yeah, thank you and thank you for your condolences at the loss of my colleagues. I'm glad that it was a relative who asked you a question about targets but it's I'm going to go that direction too. I think everyone in our sector is deeply concerned about the sustainable development goals I think it's very ambitious of Ireland to be chairing the midterm review. It's terrific to have the chairperson of that review on the panel today, because I'm wondering what we think we're going to do about the real laid behind on every one of the goals. When we set out with the sustainable development goals 15 years ago or when we did the whole assumption of peace and prosperity and partnership just simply hasn't held. We're against an even more bleak draft backdrop and I'm hoping that between the two of you on the on the podium, you might be able to give some some sense of hope for what we will do in this midterm review to revitalize the goals. Thank you. Yes, that's another difficult one and what I would say is that that summer will be an opportunity to take stock and and give guidance for the way forward and more leaders have come will reflect on on this and importantly identify gaps. And I think it will be left behind so we're we're actually going to that summer, knowing their difficulties. So we really want to jump start some of the programs that have been delayed. So it's not a perfect situation that is going to be a wonderful midterm review and have me make great progress we're actually already know we're behind. I think really it's to take stock and try and jump start some of the programs and a lot will depend on on the people who are co chairing it and their staff to bring people around because I think in all those summits. 70% of people to go along with you was to get everybody else together. And I think that's really the challenge we have. We're not going out at the midterm review from where we'd like to be but we're going out there from where we are. And I think kickstarting some of these programs has to be our priority. To what the minister said me. I mean, my role was in 2015. I don't have role now it's actually our colleague and further my friend the current ambassador who is chairing the preparations for the outcome of that summit he's chairing them with Qatar. My own sense, since I follow this a bit privately my own senses that on the one hand, the problems are norms as the minister says every country and you know just every country is in reverse basically on the goals, and really it's, it's going to be a very steep challenge for you to make significant progress by 2030, but on the other hand, what is remarkable is the amount is the positive attention, the positive welcome for the goals which still exists at the UN, the, and indeed internationally, the phrase used is we have to build back from the pandemic, in particular, via these goals not that the goals are less relevant they were actually many ways more relevant so it is a strange phenomenon and welcome phenomenon that every year countries are more and more enthusiastic about these goals, even though for reasons to do with the pandemic and certainly the repercussions of the Ukraine war. It hasn't. We've gone into reverse so I think really what the minister said set such are the Irish government's positive attitude towards it but it won't be easy to get a sort of a global consensus around that. One last comment, because of the difficulties and what has happened in recent years I think, not just on the people co chairing and the various aspects of the conference, the UN itself has a lot at stake it is as an international organization. And, and I think there'll be a strong pressure party when to maintain their relevance in the difficult times we've had in the world. So I think there will be a very strong impetus from everybody who's committed to the UN. We have to go away with success here and a practical success not a wishy washy one. So I think everybody will be commissioned to see some real, you know, substance and picking up from where we should be. Thanks, Mr. Could I take another question or quite a few hands up. Jane and Jane and McKenna from Docus. Thanks very much, David. I just to go back to the targets. Obviously, we know that the in country refugee cause the Ukrainian cause can be counted as under OECD DAC, but they don't have to be and I'm just wondering if, you know, we've seen other countries show leadership in this regard. It's both Sweden and Norway, you know, have essentially looked to reach the target of 0.7 with in country refugee cause being additional to that. And, and are also kind of looking at other countries are looking at kind of reporting in a way where it's showing that it's not going to have a negative impact in either ODA targets or development budget. So I'm just wondering if that is something that will be under consideration by the department to look at where to what should be included rather than what can be included. Thank you. Thank you. And I would say that I think in recent times, most of the discussion. The volume of support were given rather than the percentage of GNP. Yes, that's, that's critical. But I think it's important that the actual amount of funding increases to our principal commitment is and maybe it's just because I was asked the question, I spoke about the Ukrainian You don't hear us saying that very often. Politically, it's a fact it's how the OECD says you can account for it. Because it was asked that question I elaborated on that point but it's not something we elaborate a lot on only when specifically asked. So definitely we're not at the 4% in any event as what we will call traditional funding for to reach our 0.7%. But what I will say, the most important thing we have to do here, and other countries have to do is ring fence the money for ODA and not let any money that's needed for these temporary measures and we're absolutely committed. Our funding is sacrosanct. This is extra money we hadn't and it'll just have to be found. We're all fortunate we do have the ability to do that. Maybe some other countries that might be a strong which government services may be tempted to use some of those funding to supplement some of their development or humanitarian budget. But we're absolutely committed in Ireland, regardless of the Ukrainian issue to maintain a strong increase in our figures. But yes, when you look at that in isolation. Yes, we're still a good road to travel to the 0.7%. Great. There was another question here. Yes, please. The bank. Susan Murphy, can you hear me okay. Yeah, Susan Murphy Trinity College Dublin. Huge thanks, Minister and distinguished host and chair. David. It's great to be with you today and I really enjoyed your contribution so thanks so much. I was particularly impressed to hear the commitment to amplifying an increasing Southern voice on the boards of our own NGOs and so on so I think that's a really strong development. And I think it's important to I think one of the strengths of our development cooperation system that has existed for many, many decades and that's our focus on ensuring that we flow support through and to NGOs and focusing on strengthening civil society and indeed relationships and We have seen an increase in ODA over the last number of years, but we are also seeing quite a higher proportion of that flowing through to the multinationals and probably for a very good reason given the macro challenges that we face. So I was just wondering if you could comment a little bit around commitments to retaining that fantastic tradition that we have had of engagement and support for NGOs and civil society, strengthening within the within those priorities and as you see them. Thank you. That's a very important policy question that we are addressing and considering in the department at the moment, and I don't have a final view on that. And just to give you my own observations on that to be able to work. In some cases, we've worked to embassies. We're working to the NGOs where we can see a program for a number of years and we can see this ability of what happened is ultimately the most desirable. I think for the Irish people because they can see the projects on the ground. I say people can relate to the actual activity, but then there are many cases that it is better to have, whether it's through the EU or UN work into as a team. Where there can be greater coordination between because you can't have all the countries doing their own thing, and maybe duplication or maybe gaps. So there's a policy issue to be addressed there. I take the point in recent years, the percentage that have gone to those areas has been increasing. And sometimes they're able to put a response or to have a system in place. There's our own NGOs, our own department, our own embassies, missions underground are not in a position to do in the time required. But I think it's a fair question. And it's an open question. There's an open answer to that at the moment. And I take your point because if it goes through the UN, we lose a bit of visibility as to where the Irish money ended up. We can say, well, we, we contributed, you know, 50 million to something that other countries contributed a billion to and we are there part of that. What is nice to see the visibility of our specific contributions as well. So I do welcome those international bodies are very much in this space now which years ago they wouldn't have been to the same extent. And I think that's positive, because it gives standing. And like we've even seen in Sudan, the Irish can't do lots of countries, we can't do things on our own anymore. We rely on EU partners or partners even from outside the EU, even if it's getting citizens out of countries. And so we have to work internationally. But it's an open question. And as one, I think we continue to discuss, but there's no specific policy on it versus an area that we want to do here where we're heading. But we don't want, you know, in 20 years time, there's no NGOs being funded. You know, that's, I think a fair comment that some people might say if it continues to go unchecked and it's very as easier. Right to check to the UN, then go through a detailed program with four or five NGOs in the region. But aside from that, I think the Irish people appreciate work being done by recognized NGOs that people know by name here in Ireland. There's a couple of online questions here I just had to put to you one from Matthew McGraw. Can you comment on on the programs that we might be planning for the Horn of Africa, given what's been happening in Sudan recently in other words what impact has the Sudan conflict had on our planning for assistance in the region. And another question then from Patrice Lucid of the Irish Forum for International Agricultural Development. Could you say something about the role of agriculture in development and your experiences with farmers in Malawi and Zambia. Yeah, look at Sudan situations, exceptionally difficult and especially back and any any area where they're internal strife. The first thing we have to do is, you know, the safety of our own citizens and the safety of our own workers out there through the NGOs, and we can't do anything to put them under stress. So that has, you know, and sometimes you want to do something you feel the need but it's just not safe to do so. So what I would say is, some of these things are outside our control. And sometimes we can't proceed with projects in an area that we would want to do so because it's not safe to do so. And members of our NGOs and our citizens often need to be brought home or brought to a safer country. Sometimes those issues are out of our control. And that's a matter of concern in relation to agriculture. And the advice that we're giving. And when it was in Malawi and Zambia, I saw a couple of projects. The one thing I saw some of the Irish, Irish expats out there, who went out there, like yourselves years ago, settled there and now running food businesses and I saw several of them, which is really good. But what I would think that one of the messages we give that I gave and I took up from the areas where agriculture production is poor is they just need a kickstart because when I was flying into Malawi, it's a green country, sun and water. I said, what's the problem here? Before land, they said, what's the problem here? So they have nowhere with all and the technology. So that's all the need. They have all the resources, natural resources, they're intelligent people, once they get the opportunities, but they need a kickstart in, I suppose, mechanizing their agricultural production. And what I feel is a point that I will be moving is they have to work in co-ops. So the message I use in all those countries was that you turn the clock back, I don't know how many years ago, 50, 60 years ago, all the Irish farmers who, you know, when we're selling in England, they produced what they produced and they took the price that whoever was exporting the thing happened. So they all came together in co-ops in Ireland and they're now the glambias and the caries and whatever. They're multinational companies, but they're all originally farmer owned and farmer controlled. And I would be saying to all of those countries, true, and in one of the countries that the local farmers union, the equivalent to the IFA, had set up a co-op in a region owned by the members and they were probably part ownership. So I'm saying no farmer in any of these countries can do it on their own, no group of 10. They have to be 100 or 200 or 300 because it doesn't pay any of them to get a machine or get a tractor or get a harvester. But if there's 100 farmers come together as a mini co-op, it's now worthwhile having the machine. So mechanization is the answer. They need the resources and they need a bit of collegiality amongst themselves. And I would be saying the need to work and set up local co-op like we did and look at our agriculture outcome. We're an exact example. We're the exact time case of what they need to do now. We're almost out of time, Minister, but we might have time for one more question, I think. Yes, and Alex. Thanks very much, Jeremy Wilmses from British Embassy Dublin. Thank you, Minister, very much for your speech and thank you to the IEA for hosting this excellent event. In March, the UK published its integrated review refresh which looked at our international strategy essentially by taking a look at our security defense development and foreign policy priorities. And our development minister Andrew Mitchell then went into a bit more detail about our refresh development approach and a speech at the end of April. But my question is in view of Ireland's upcoming consultative forum on international security policy, which the Tornisher announced in April, whether consideration of Ireland's development approaches is going to be considered in that forum. Thanks very much. No, no, I don't believe so. We're committed to our development program as is. And there's nothing even suggested in that and impinge on that in any way. So it's clearly unconnected with this area altogether. I can be absolutely sure on that because the Irish people are very strong and are overseas aid. And the other issues are bigger political issues which I'll leave to my tarnish to my party leader. But as you know, there is the forum being set up. And I think it's good to have that debate. Some people are afraid of the debate and people get nervous of the debate. But just because there's a debate and just known as end up with the conclusion that people were worried about at the very beginning. So it's important we take stock on those areas where it's not connected to this area. Okay, so Alex, would you like to be the end to thank the minister and thank Dave or his expert chair and thank the minister for for being here. And just to say how much we value the support of the minister department in this program here at the institute. I think the bigger that support is how much we look forward to working with you with your officials and indeed with the NGOs and many people represented in this room is great to see so many people here and also members of diplomatic call. Oh, very welcome. I just have to brief comments on the minister's speech. Thank you for the speech and as David has said, it was, it was also was very heartfelt. And I thought, I'm actually a speech that reflected a real commitment on Sean's part of this agenda. And he mentioned Malawi. And I was in Malawi with Trogra 11 years ago, and with a guy called Pascal Donohue. And it was a very memorable trip for me. And I really appreciate it. And, you know, struck by the minister's emphasis really on gender. And the course of the speech and came back to it a couple of times which I thought was quite striking. And that was something that really stuck with me from my from my time in Malawi, the extent to which kind of formal decision making was still very gendered, that may have gendered, whereas the real progressive forces, you know, frankly, from what I saw where the women in communities. And I remember discussing that with Trogra at the time and wondering how that impacted on on their work and it seems from what you've said there, you know that has evolved and has changed perhaps somewhat at least. And so to sort of trivialize the point but we have a little sign at home that my wife put up on the wall which says something like, do you want to speak to the man in charge or to the woman who knows what's going on. And that was the sense that you really had in those communities and I think that that seems to be the sense that you picked up as well. The last thing I'll just say the other point that I found striking from your speech from your contribution speech was the climate finance point. I was impressed on that. And of course it's a big political question but I was in Lima at COP 20, just before Paris, representing the Irish government. And at that point in 2014, you know, there was huge financial pressure still on the Irish government coming out of the crisis and so on. And but I still felt that I know the officials I was with were perhaps just a little bit concerned that I go to say something that script. They were actually right to be concerned. Not that I did or not that I would ultimately say something on behalf of the government that I wasn't authorized to do with that no minister would have put to that. But it was very uncomfortable. I remember feeling really very uncomfortable at that time that we were doing really very little in 2014 on that agenda. And it's just so reassuring and heartening to see the step change of the burden on that point. And the government would say, well, look, it's now easier for us to do it. The financial situations has altered somewhat, have altered considerably since those crisis times. But still it was, it was deep down. I do have a memory of an official from not from the minister's current part. How I say from his previous department, literally running around after me in the COP 20 center in Lima because he was so afraid was he that I was going to actually say something. And he would see me in a hoodie with Mary Robinson who was followed by it and very well followed by the what's he going to say. Anyway, it's moved on considerably. So just once again, thank you very much to the minister. Thank you, in particular to my to Kathy also on to the department to his officials and Kate Brady and others who I know we're here work very closely with us. And it's critical to us that we have the support actually the multi animal support the minister's point, and we look forward to working very closely with you and indeed with all the people in this room in the period ahead. Thank you very much.