 Yes, indeed, and welcome back. This is the touchline. I'm Banado Kumu, and I'm joined by Mwalimuki Kechi Kombo, former development director with Kenya Rugby Union and also Rugby Coach with Kombras. Kombras is a community rugby club, right? That seeks to give opportunity to players. Yes, to the younger, developing young players, split-aged players, and they get an opportunity to play also in the championship and also climbing the ladder. You see now, we monitor the party of the players from the edge grade up to the national team. And we have some who have played at the national team, also playing with the Kenya Cup teams. And I think that's one way that at least probably the Kenya Rugby Union should embrace. What the other countries have done and they have succeeded, countries like New Zealand, like Australia, and when you see these guys who are even playing at the World Cup, you see when you look at their record and how they have been monitored through the pathway, you see they have been nurtured from as early as under 10 and they have gone up and to be world class players. So I think that's a model that these players need to, and Kenya Rugby Union need to embrace and also the other African countries need to embrace. And South Africa has been very successful with that kind of edge grade rugby. And when you look at the tournament like Kravenwick, where we have the edge grade players playing and coaches across the world, they come and do the scouting and take these players to the national teams and clubs, big clubs like Premier League and E-France. You know, they play and they come and play for the national team and they have a rich pool of players to choose from because of having monitor through the edge grade program. Yes, and maybe school you could also add that schools provide a better edge grade system for rugby scouts to talent. Yes, it's one of the schools like K-Triple, they say it's a big stick holder for Kenya Rugby Union but at times it's not based on the structure because you see now some of the way the curriculum is structured in Kenya, it depends with the school principle and that's why it's the biggest problem. If we come and support, then we do good, if someone else comes. Yes, if a principle is transferred from one this particular school, then the rugby that is. You can be able to see a school like Kamega which was doing so well and because of that transfer of teachers, it's a real effect. Then kuyonzo come in but we know that they'll be down so soon once the principle goes. Yes, once the principle goes, because teams like the current MP for Kibera was doing so well at Bahil and Agureti. Yes, Mr Aurelo. Yes, now when he left you can be able to see some gaps now in between. So that's the biggest challenge with our school system. Yes, I remember he was at Upper Hill and Upper Hill went on to win a national title, they went to Agureti and now you can't say anything about the two schools again. Yes, two things are not working well now because he has left. The CB system is there but you see now the issue is they need to put the structures in place for this particular to sustain the program in this particular school and the curriculum they are saying probably in the upper and senior classes would be having a school for sports and then you'll have your having schools for the other side of the stem, the other subject. So we hope now that one will be able to pick it up but we are waiting to see if it works out. We know how our education system works in Kenya. It's a bit erratic. And so for Congress it has been able to register some of the highlights, what are some of the achievements or highlights from the program so far that it has been around. Well, we have seen some of these players, they have joined a school, the one they joined Muhoori Mushiri High School and they went all the way to win East Africa 7th Championship in Gulu. So you can be able to see how these players, it's a case system where they were put together from the age of 12 and by the time they were going for East Africa they were on average of 16 years and they went and competed and won. But now countries like Uganda would come, Ginger, Secondary School, Kololo with an average of 19 16 years and they were very talented and they won. Yes. And I mean people maybe have been talking about that. Is there a way, maybe a dedication system in Uganda favors them when it comes to sports? Yeah, but now the factor in the age because you must be under 19 to be able to play. But when you look at the system, the Form 6 system slightly higher and they get more competition and proper competition unlike the 844 system. But I like the federation, the East African federation. You see the way they have structured in such a way that you must be under 19 to play in the championship, which is something good. Yes indeed. And so I mean, with the KRU maybe apart from just, though we've seen the Kenya Cup teams having the second tier side competing in the Eric Shalian. Yeah. Well, the biggest problem with the Kenya rugby union and like when we look at the other system like what happens in South Africa with Saru. Saru has got an elaborate league for under 20 and elaborate for under 23, even under 19. You see now there are those systems and these players go through on those particular age grade structure as they monitor the pathway of these particular players. So the problem here Eric Shalian is, it's just players who are mixed up with age. There's no proper under 20. You get a player who is 30 years, 26 years, but now he's playing Eric Shalian. But unlike they could have put out a rule that Eric Shalian should be under 20. Development side. Development side under 20 players. So now they keep on shifting up and down. I think that could have worked so well. But when I was the director I tried to bring that one to the board but they resisted because now they said unless the Kenya rugby union funds the program the Kenya Cup clubs can not be able to fund the under 20 team. But how do we develop rugby? I think Kenya rugby union needs to open up because we've been in this system and it seems it's not working for long. They need just to tell this system we're going to work, clubs will have under 20 and these under 20 should have a property and a sponsor coming in board. But at times there's or ankles within the board and some of these things end up on the trains, they don't work. Maybe that's why they've been there's not so much in the pipeline when Nakina Ayanga and Injera exit. The rest who are coming in it's not easy to find them. Yeah, you see now where you don't have a proper structured program like now we'll be having a 7th academy a functional 7th academy we'll also be having a camp seasonal camps for probably under 20, under 23 and they're involved in the international tournaments. So now we'll be able to monitor the part players so these guys goes up and down. But you see now what comes in is get players from the clubs they come and play. Now it's no structured system that's where the problem is now you cannot be able to get a furnished talent that's just you know that these guys are going to fit in the 7th team these guys are going to fit in the the 5th team so there's no proper structure that's what's affected how that would be. And even the 7th season 7th season is not enough to to churn out talent in a season. Yeah those are 7 series 7 series that's what they use it for selection of the players now you know half coaches who move around and they select the players from the clubs that are playing. And these players now are brought to the 7th national team so they trim down to 30 players and they're contracted now to play. But see now is that enough now but it should have just an academy the 7th academy like what happened to the Bleatbox in South Africa which is based in Cape Town. So you see now you can be able to mount and you have the coaches who just deal with this and they keep on now shifting the players up and down integrating them into the team slowly. So at least probably if they are travelling to Dubai they can say let us have two guys also travelling they are moving to LA they are moving to Vancouver 3 guys coming in so you find you have a funny system and players also getting into the team slowly. So you keep on winning because now these guys are getting experienced because some are being faced out and some are coming in so it's a complete structure a good system. You don't wait for a total overhaul it doesn't work you must go down like where we are now let's talk about the Challenger series. So the challenger is I think this time it was a bit tough for the Shujia though we still have one more game to play but having gone down to Georgia in 17-0 and they also struggled they also struggled Kenes Pojogo yesterday coming and winning in 19-12 but now we are having an interesting one coming up against Tonga that's at 8 today but when you look at Tonga Hamad at Georgia 40-5 so it's going to be a tough one but I like the way the coach has done where he has got in at these new players because I think he is focused and he is preparing for what will happen in Madrid because that's where the big guys and they need to complete him through the damage in Madrid for us to go back to the HSB series otherwise it will be very tough in Madrid so probably got in the 5 guys the likes of Salem Lukuse and then also Abakuse or Young and Elvis also to go and see how they play and fit in the system so probably when he goes to the last leg that is coming up on 18-19 of May in Munich so now you have a complete squad because within 2 weeks they will cross off to Madrid to be the last 4 guys and it's going to be tough because when you look at the 4 guys on the lower rank we have the Spain Spain are the semis in LA we also have USA who might also fold back we also have Samoa we also have Canada but Canada seems not to be doing so well and Samoa so these teams how do we win against these teams of course it works it probably might slip but with them they won in Dubai so the last 4 might be a bit tough how would you play against USA and win how would you play against Samoa how would you play against Spain who were in the semifinals how would you play against the Great Britain who were in the finals and lost to France those are some of the teams so as the coach focused on Madrid and having the right player sorry in Munich and qualify for Madrid so we should now be able to look at the last 4 guys because one of those big guys admitted the semifinals so how would you unlock USA how would you unlock Samoa how would you unlock Great Britain who were in the finals in LA and they played very well against France who won their first tournament in 19 years by the former captain of the national team the France national team who was now falling down and now is playing for 7th preparing for Olympics that's coming up in Paris so they are trying to fix their squad and they are also doing it so well because when it comes to Paris I think they want to have a clean team a very good 7th team having lost to Springboks in the semis in the World Cup and this was very disappointing for them they could not believe that they could lose to Springboks so that's still out and in fact it also affecting the mid playing in the 6th nation they have not died yet to stabilize it but Shujia needs now to have the right guys in Munich and then the guys will cross off and ultimately to Pyramids Yes, and maybe what does it require now what should coach Bling and his side just achieve today in Montevideo You are right because they need to do well to be among the top 4 they are leading the lock they want to buy 20 with 20 points so they need to at least have 15 points so go on to win again to have 40 points then now in Madrid or in Munich just to confirm that we are going now for the big one in Madrid because now they will be among the top 4 they win leaving has number one going to Madrid as the top of the challenge series I think that will be a big confidence for the players and they also need now to come and look at the mistake they have made in today how was the attack how was the defense where they lost why should we have a national team player who knocks the ball that means probably we also what are we doing in terms of preparing these guys on the edge grade are they coming through the edge grade why should a national team player knock the ball I think that is something that is our basic things that should be done early enough how do we attack how do we how do we get the ball from the racks and circulate the ball how fast are we in terms of getting the ball from the rack and circulating and attacking you could say that Kenya may be right now desperate to have furnished talent well they are there just a matter of putting them in the right structure in the right structure but when you look also look at the squad having the likes of Buffa and the likes of the guys who left and they are playing the rugby in US and Canada you see now these young guys were left behind Kesa and Onyala and now Tony they are trying to gel with the other guys now to get a winning team because the other guys were there likes of Inger and Umbachi you see now they played for so long and they kept the Kenyan team on the right map so we need now to have the right guys to come and fill it again yes indeed and Coach Wambua maybe just had a perfect start to his reign when of course getting the Olympic ticket and also just beginning the challenger series on a winning note I think that's enough to give him the fire to go the way it's right but see now at times when you are playing weak side you don't get the right structure you do get disturbed because you get a team that just plays crap rugby and they will like Georgia yesterday so that's where the problem is but now you see you also need to compete with a team that's playing structure rugby because when you go into four HHSP series these are teams who are playing against very strong teams in the series and they also be competing to retain their position in HHSP series and Kenya will be working out to qualify the other teams like Germany they are gaining their strength on Kenya because Kenya has been successful team in the seventh rugby so they are testing and see how good are we when we go to Madrid and also try to qualify so Kenya needs to up and probably they should have a proper come and proper competition in between so that they can get to be the right structure to go and compete effectively in Madrid and maybe it should also be known that it's never easy to just bounce back immediately well it's like in a jungle how do you come out of it because we are playing guys who are playing scrappy rugby the guys on prime currently they are the challenges series these are probably there are guys who are Georgia they are playing well in 15 they are 15 side they are the world cup but now with the 7s they have not been good but see now they are coming in and they are testing themselves against Kenya we can also win the 7s we can also win the 7s side but I think it's good for him to have such a player like Ojuang you see now the way he played yesterday he is probably talented he may not been tested but now he brought it in probably in the training he was doing so well and he was meeting the expectation of being in the 7s team and he showed that he can do well within the 7s team so the likes they are amazing and they called don't go the guys who didn't travel I had an injury but you see now that's also another issue that Kenya rugby now is affecting the the coach structure because the coach is supposed to have these players but why should we have these players go and play Kenya cup why should we allow them to go and play the championship when they are the national team players they should be contracted they should be given a full contract to stick with the national team until the end of the contract that's when they can go back to to their clubs to play for their clubs but here this weekend you are with the club the other weekend you are with the national team the camp so it still affects and now you got injured probably he will be back on time tanga also didn't travel but things I hope we will work out for the next level and that's maybe what we call professionalizing the 7s at your time maybe as a director at care what were some of the proposals that are gathering maybe should be looked up should be looked into in terms of professionalizing the 7s and I think that was one of the main reasons why when we were going down of the elite series elite circuit it was like there's no way we can put up a proper fight if we don't professionalize it if we can't professionalize the game that's where the challenge and the main challenge is our sponsorship because at times also shy of when we have a lot of wrangles within the board the chairman today is there the secretary you see now there's push and pull among the board members and the clubs too and the clubs also holding the pressure from the clubs and they also say how come players from this particular club but have they made a standard of being in the national team that's another thing but why is this player meeting so at times also the clubs are full the board are transom but they need to try and work out especially with the constitution so that the board and the people who are running the game they should have a clean way of doing it instead of a time being hold transom and just play the game and they should have the sponsors and seven sponsors should be there but for a long time we don't just have a sponsor for one year or two years but we can have a sponsor for 10 years with the team I think that works out well and these guys get contracted for full contract just be the same for a certain period of time yeah and I think rugby has one of the sports in the country that has been easy for them to attract and retain sponsorship so I think it will not be a big struggle for it to come out properly no, they need sponsors I don't think they have good sponsors so far with the games when you go inside and look at it those sponsors are there they don't meet the budget for the game for the game right they don't at all but when you look at the pay of this particular player can it be sustained that the pay delay is it enough for them to just fit there and also attract these other guys who are probably playing for the other clubs foreign clubs to come and quality players who are playing for the corner and call them back come and play for the national team is it that there look at the way the spring box works you see now players in the club and they come for the come and it features all throughout the season until it finishes but it's fully contracted so that's where we are also facilities now so we look at the facilities we had to go to South Africa maybe to just get some quality facilities we've seen Simba's doing that you are competing like Karikap you are competing against the world class players so also you now you are able to raise up your game you raise up your skills you get the right structure of the game so that works out well and also playing club rugby for season in and out that's when you have franchise teams franchise teams like when you look at the spring box you have the stormers you have the sharks you have the bulls you see now the cheetahs those are franchise teams they get players from the clubs from the region they have finished players and they get full sponsored and they have their own league so that works out well for us but as we playing quite a number how much have we raked before for 100 years we raked before concept in 1923 for 100 years we are still playing the same track we need to change what suits us but you know we have to we do put it over a hole you just need to do it phase it out or bring some new ideas and then it will carry on I think that we will be able to make our game also to improve on the structure and bring out players that of just being there the same club all throughout the area yes maybe we can talk about the women just before we we ended and really they also did win the silver in Dubai in Dubai coming into this particular one the hopes are also high but they will also be knocking at the door of the elite series next season but also look at the last four but now when you look at the way they have played against Hong Kong where they won and they lost to sorry they won against Papua Guinea in 912 but they also lost to Hong Kong China Hong Kong China 12-0 but we are looking at Belgium Belgium these are European team and European team is a bit tricky but I hope they now be able to win that one and next to the next level I think they can do well and they are playing well and also bring Kelo from China so from Japan to join the team I think that's a big plus because the way he's playing and the way he's running and executing the ball it's working out well for the Paul Murungan Mwanja's side so it will be they also be of course looking out to finish among the top four and go for the players later on in Madrid because now when the men will be crossing over to Munich with them they will go to the last leg will be in Poland so they also expect to do well in Poland and qualify but so far so good for also the women team there is a high chance of being among the top four and qualify and go and work it out and see how they will be able to work and be in the top series if they make it to the HSP7 series I think the life of these most of these ladies will completely change we pray that it works out well for them to qualify for HSP series yes indeed thank you so much Mwalimo for making your time thank you so much and all the best with kumras keep channing out talent that's the way to go we're speaking to the former development director at KIRU and also the rugby coach for kumras that's Mwalimo kiki kechi kumopili Mwalimo mzuri sana kisohili mwandishi piwavitabu mwandishi avitabu na mazanti sana kiki tuta rejeha na taira soiyaki on fund zone don't go too far this is the touch line on Y2.4