 All right, Kary Boussana, welcome back. This is actually the first interview and conversation of the day, but as always, you can engage with us on eggs, Facebook and Instagram at Y2 for channel with hashtag Y in the morning. And we're just about to get into an interesting conversation about Digi entrepreneurship. And let me just give you a little update about the state of our SMEs right in the country. SMEs just means small and medium-sized enterprises. And this actually, they are the economic backbone of Kenya, marking up to 98% of all businesses in the countries that contribute an estimate of 40% of the country's GDP and create up to 30% of all new jobs annually. However, 20% of the 7.4 million MSMEs in Kenya are licensed. And some of the challenges facing them include rising costs, reduced revenue, inflation, cost of raw material, insurance costs, and sometimes also low demand for products and services. And sometimes we import instead of just manufacturing because we have the capacity to, but we opt to importing other than us manufacturing and then exporting. And but SMEs are actually the biggest source of innovation. And that's where technology comes in to create competition and opportunities. And that's actually the biggest thing that all young people and in general citizens of our country right now should be focusing on creating, innovating, and giving people or others opportunity. Not only are you just creating an entrepreneurial opportunity for yourself, but you're also giving another person a chance. And now Vasue technology comes in. And for that matter, we are going to talk or deep dive into the world of Digi Entrepreneurship. And we've been joined live by Zakari Nixson Onyanche, who is a digital consultant and plus many other titles that he got. He's gonna tell us more about himself and this topic right here that you're about to get into. Send in your question on the hashtag Goa in the Morning, Twitter for a channel at Brian's Circle 101. Vasue includes on X, Facebook, and Instagram again. Karibu-san, good morning to you, Nick. Hi, good morning, Brad. Right, so before we come on here, you're actually trying to give me a brief story about how you began. And I just learned that you had a degree in biochemistry and then gravitated or morphed into the world of digital. And there's so many things you've done. So please tell us just a little bit of being a biochemist and then becoming a Digi mania. How did you become all that? And then all these places you've been to and these companies you've worked with, just briefly. Well, so I'll say my journey started way back when I was so young. Being one of those guys was very inclined into tech. That's when I got so involved that my dad used to have laptops and stuff like that. And then my neighbor used to have a microscope. So I used to play with those both. So when we grew up, I was like, what if we create a problem and we create a solution at the same time? And during that phase is when we had the virus that was deployed, that was, I think it was Moiki Bakiz during campaigns. So with that kind of mindset, you feel like this is where the world is moving to. You create a problem and you have your own solution because no one else is going to debug that. So apparently when I went to campus, that wasn't the case. And it turned out that most of my interest came with because the people around me had computers. And that way we started creating solutions. And again, if you come from a family that's not well off, you always have to find your ways in meeting that kind of demand. This is getting you food ready, paying partially part of your rent. So you needed to make an extra cash in campus. So hence the reason why I deviated a bit and started off doing some 3D animation here at Shanktao, moved on designing some houses that way. So computer came part of my lifestyle. And that's hence why I'm creating solution based on computers. So you ditched being a biochemist for good. And it's not reflecting anyway in your resume right now. Maybe not. Maybe he's why. If you're a Digi Prenua or an M Prenua, which is mobile Prenua, is you're looking for avenues where you can tap into. Because the main goal is to not die broke. Get something working for you when you're not there. So if you're to make as much as you can and you're able to tap it in terms of dollars or in euros, you're better off spending those euros in shillings when you're in a shilling country. So you look at those avenues. So hence why. Right, now interesting transition. Let's get into the word Digi Prenua shape. For a person who doesn't understand what Digi Prenua shape means, maybe if you can paint just a lack of perspective of what that means. And then we can dive into the deeper details. So Digi Prenua is a fuse between digital and entrepreneurship. So you're making money in the digital space. And entrepreneurship is your solving problems. I find so many people who have businesses calling themselves imprenuers, which ideally it's not the case. Because a business, any other person can do their business. But imprenuership, you're looking at this is the level. This is the problem that I'm solving. And you're able to talk to the people who are within your circle to actually create a solution to that level of problem. So that's Digi Prenua for me. Right. Now when you look at the transition and the shift, especially in the day and times we're living right now, it seems like everybody else is moving their businesses online, making use of social media platforms. We talked about X that recently. So Elon Musk hired a scaffold and people left. And he complained. He's advocating for free speech. The likes of Instagram are now meta. The metaverse is here. People are now able to collaborate with the even platforms like that to even sell products and even advocate for even human rights, not only just products, but even advocating and pushing agendas. According to and from your experience where you sit, how far is the shift? And is it helping change the economic status of not only just the country, but individual businesses? And I've just pointed out to you the state of SMS right here in the country. Yeah. So what I see there is these are huge impacts. These are huge impacts because we are all in this digital space in any way or the other. You miss me on X or Instagram. You'll still find me on WhatsApp. And probably it's a link that I'll send you and you get to pay me using Safari coms. With Safari com, I'm not giving you liquid cash. I have to do it on the digital space. And if you look at that, it has all these as a trail. So you're able to leave a mark in the digital space unlike the traditional way of paying behind the counter. So all this is changing. In Asia, the other day, they banned TikTok. The TikTok that we use here in Kenya is very mild. There it's wild. You scroll, you're able to pay for a drone. Someone is doing the drone and you see some figures here coming down and you click on it. It's shipped to your doorstep. Now for those people who cannot pay, you just walk into your nearest supermarket, give them the money. You have a unique code that's being put on the POS. You've transacted. So that's the impact of digital. So what they did was they had to shut down TikTok because you know why? People are not doing walk-ins into the shop. The popular pages are the ones who are making money. So that's the level of the impact of digital in the space. So in Kenya, for instance, we are moving to that space and the internet is getting better by the day. More homes are connected now. The other day I was talking to my old lady, my mom now and she's not even watching TV anymore. She's on the devices and Addy's coming, and she's just skipping and every now and then YouTube rolled out the ad block privacy. They updated the privacy so you're more or less likely to see an Ad2203 there. We have more digital spaces, walk outside here. You see all content creators are now super active. And these platforms are actually advancing. They've now introduced a premium feature. They are. Is that not exploitative? Well, it's just I'm able to make money now that everybody is on YouTube. Well, we are motivated by money. The more the platform makes money, the more content creators make money. It's the same thing. The reason why I would want to have a digital shop, it gives me a lot of less hustle of making sure I have salespeople in my shop. I can just do it on the fly or even automate it. So that's the input of digital. And most of these organizations are now moving to that space. Even the president himself said, listen, I'm going to give you a pay bill and all these payments need to go through this pay bill so that I'm able to track everything. But a lot of people look at it as a move to be taxed more now that they call them punitive tax measures. Anyways, we'll talk about that later on our political platform. But now let's talk about the technicalities behind digit prenewship. Now that some of these words are no vocabulary. For example, a business that sells carrots or delivers skumawiki. If they want to shift into the digital space, pragmatically, if you're to explain to that single-handedly young entrepreneur who is at Gikomba, so easy right now, as you speak, how do they make the first move? OK, well, carrots. You've got to look at who's the target audience. So are you going the B2B route or are you going B2C? So the cost per acquisition for B2B would be slightly cheaper than B2C because you have to be always competing with later Coca-Cola on running those creative ads. Because Coca-Cola will give you like a frequency capping of around 15. A frequency capping is the number of times you're seeing these ads. SafariCom is within that space. And remember, you only have like eight hours or whatever during that time. So for this person who's doing these carrots delivery, I'll probably propose you look at the entities that are going to take it in bulk so that when you're making that first trip, let's say you're doing like 100 kgs. You're doing like 20 kgs. That way, you're able to even take care of your day-to-day operational costs. You can also do something we call cross-marketing. You want carrots, but I know carrots go hand-in-hand with some potatoes or some whatever. So I'm able to add more value. Because the thing is, it's digital. And it's tied to the relationship that I've created with you. And that relationship is what's giving me more people who, within your circle, would want more carrots. So if I serve you right, you're gonna give me more of those carrots vendors. And that's how I propose how they go about it. Just know your person that you're selling it to and make your markup's margins right and just deliver. The first clients is happy referrals, referrals, referrals. I was thinking that, you know, first of all, it should be begin by being tech-savvy first. Because I can only imagine an old mama to come but who doesn't have an iPhone like I do. First of all, they have no idea what an iPhone is. What they know is they know mama, Keshav, Goma, Mahu, blah, blah, blah. The people she talks to. So I believe maybe they'll have to know how to use a smartphone for those that... But I was really surprised. There's villages in this country that don't even have electricity. They've never even seen a laptop. And yet they're in Kenya. And then when we talk about also digital, the digital, the growth of digital space in Kenya, you wonder when will they even receive this experience that we're talking about here? Well, what I look at, you know, digital is not all tied to having a mobile phone like smartphone. Okay. It can be even a U.S.S.D. So if there's a firm, like for instance, Mukulimabora, which I'm one of the directors, has a U.S.S.D. code, yeah? Which if you ask me, I haven't been there for quite some time, like following up on things. Maybe U.S.S.D., you can explain what it means. So U.S.S.D. is the star... The star something codes, yeah. And you have an extension of whatever you want. So it's like... Exactly, exactly. And it's the same thing. If I was to run a digital company in Uganda, I'm going to expect more of those people that you just mentioned. Because when you're walking towards Uganda, and you see these billboards, it's U.S.S.D., U.S.S.D. It's not like download, because the cost of bundles is slightly higher. So you have to look where people are. So for that case scenario, it's the U.S.S.D., ideally it's that same person that you're talking about. So there are companies who are giving you that kind of options, which will give you a list of items that you need to sell. So it depends, it depends. So it's not tied to just a smartphone. It's not. But also, I feel it's very difficult to order for a product if you're not a smartphone service. Are there products that you can order for or even transact with apart from paying for a service? A smartphone has a better interface. Right. Because it has a bigger screen. However, for U.S.S.D. And even more options. More options, exactly, you know. U.S.S.D., it's a... There's something part of the design, because I've done also U.S.U.I., is you need to know your customer journey. So if the carrots are being put in the last page, so chances are for you, you might miss that. But now, with the machine learning, you're able to see how many people actually want carrots. So if you use your phone number and the system registered, oh, this is the carrot guy, I'm probably going to give you that first option. And it's the same thing SafariCom is doing as well. Well, if you're used to borrowing 10 Bob, it's gonna give you 10 Bob. If you're from a different class, it's gonna give you a hundred, a thousand kind of thing. So that's, we are now learning our users and you're giving them the best option that we can. Right. When you look at the reception of even the digitpreneurship space, as you talk, in Kenya, how is it? Apart from Nairobi, of course, Nairobi, a lot of people are so savvy with some of these things, including AI now, how AI is being incorporated in businesses. You've mentioned Storina machine learning. Even in health, now in schools, they are now adapting to it. Thanks to chat GPT, which is now the commonly used chatbot now. Yeah. So outside Nairobi, well, last week I was in Kisi. Where you come from as well? Yes, I'm in Kisi. So I was in Kisi and I was trying to see like the internet penetration. There's a lot of, I don't want to call them cartels. People want to get to make money. So the lucky discouraged people who actually connected to the little internet that they have there. So you find if the cost of internet is 3,000, they are cost selling to you at 5,000. So discourages you from doing that. And I think that's why we saw the Google that was brought the other day. I'm not quite sure we've seen the president who was talking about Starlink as well, which is a bit expensive, but we are getting there. We are getting there. Right. Yeah, we are getting there. All right, the products you've worked for or the companies you've worked for, most of them, some of them are essential, but most of them are like even advanced for the people in rural areas. Just to mention like Jambo Pay and Visa. So how did you find yourself into that? And let me try to just get your description. There's a place where you have pragmatic certification in seismic, also shopping ad certification, Google ads measurement, campaign management certification, still Google, Google, Google, Google, and then X. So maybe if you can just paint for us a picture on how that worked out for you. For Visa specific, I used to work at really accessible open hand, which is an agency. So they were handling one of their clients was Visa. So I got to hoping and run Visa campaigns. For Jambo Pay, I was employed there as a creative designer. So some of these meetings with the previous governor like Idera used to work with them hand in hand, create solutions based on the, create creatives based on the solution that Jambo Pay was offering. And these was to like position Jambo Pay as a brand where the customer needed. So that was me for them at that point. So that's how I got into that space. So it's been a transition between me being a creative, me being a solution provider to all the way product designing. So for companies to hire, for example, at Y244, or let's say KBC in general, if they were to hire you, what services would you be giving or providing to them? Well, this is how I look at things. I would look at KBC as a product that's you giving to the Kenyans. So how this product makes sense to the Kenyan. So you look at all the aspects and now you start clearing and making them better. Because you see, we'd want to see a 3.0 KBC. We've seen the first transition of the circles, I think. Then we had the box, the... This is now in terms of their logo design. No, that's not from the brand point of view. Now that's one element of looking at it. So internally, what is it that you need? You look at all the aspects. Where are we lacking? Is it the instrument? No. I've started with people who've worked at KBC and they've said if there is the best internship they ever got was through the KBC because now they learned how to use those cameras nicely. So you look at all these aspects. So that's how they approach it. That's how they approach it. One thing that Kenyan startups lack is they do not have product designers. And that's one thing, because if you're using Instagram right now, you'll see a version that just has been released. And that version has an element based on the feedback that you got from the users. Yeah, and there's like incessant updates from features, icons. Exactly, exactly. I work, I'm the head of product for a company called PG. PG, the homing pigeon. It's incorporated in the United States. It's a C-corp Delaware. I'm operating in Indonesia. A market that I've never been, but at least I've stayed there for quite some time. And as a head of product, my role is to make sure that each and every element within the app is sorted. You look at, like for instance, we are shipping products from location A to location, just the way Uber does it, where you get an instant quote from DHL FedEx, the cheapest option. So some of our clients would ship something that would cost up to $10,000 to $20,000. And that product is insured until it gets home. So in case of any damage, you're sorted. Now, that's not the problem. That was the major problem. Now, when we rolled out that product, we realized, listen, some of these shops, because now I'm paying you $10,000, you're not actually even the shop owner. So who's supposed to disband this money to the shop owners? Now, we created a solution within that app so that your sales team can also make these patches seamless. Now, we discovered, listen, these two people have to install the same app. So what are we supposed to do? We need to create a one-sided app. So you see, it's an evolution of app releases. I've done, let's say like 60 app releases this year on that one specific product. So you better it as you move. The same way you clean your house, you don't wait until it's weekend to do it, but it's that, let me remove these so that it's the same thing that we do also. And design is actually one of the most common trend right now in marketing, visibility. Everybody wants something that's pleasant and just striking. In terms, when you look at some of the most, I think prominent products, the color, the appearance and the personality, when you look at the cover or even the design of the bottle, could it be maybe wine, lotion, whatever the product is, it's so striking and attractive to you. You could be walking on a shelf in a supermarket and you just drawn to it and you're like, hey, Kumbh, this is another version of juice. So how can companies create best design? And maybe what are some of the tips and secrets you're coming up with just excellent design for products, especially for digital now? Okay, that's a good one, that's a good one. Understanding your target audience. When once you understand that, if this thing appeals to youth, make the colors more youthful, yeah? If this appeals to the older generation, make it a bit subtle, let the beats not be so jumpy. I'll give you an example. When you go and buy, we bought two washing machine detergents. We discovered one, when you open, and I'm not gonna mention that one, when you open it, you have to point on these cup, which was a cup there, then pour the detergent to the washing machine. That's a local brand. Now, I bought another international brand here in Kenya still, but now this cup, remember I have to return this cup on there, so I have to go wash it and return it on that bottle. This other one, it has an extension inside, so I just have to pour it inside, pour it into the washing machine and return it. I do not have to wash it. So, these are the personal things about the user, those are journey. After he's used that product, same case scenario, when Safariko was rolling their solution, they have university people to actually test it before it's rolled out to the bigger audience, and that's the only way you can refine your product. I've won a couple of awards, and one of the awards that was very critical was the one that I was pitching for some investors in Dubai. I've been in the FinTech space, and that's thanks to Jambo Pay People, and shout out to Moshemi. When we sit, me and you, we have a drink here. One of the things is probably, if this drink is 20,000 or 5,000, we cost share. Now, if my app was able to key in, then just put your number like tap, then you have buzzes, we just pay one bill, the cashier will not, or whatever, the waiter will not just come and write it, because you don't know what they are looking at. That's a product evolution. For you to get there, you need to have users, so that would advise you on how. That's the same thing why I'm in Asia. Asia receives up to 21 million tourists every single year. Kenyan receives one million. So if I was to create a product that's tourist-focused, of which that's the industry that I'm in, then I need masses to make it faster. So that's it. You need the users to advise you on the product evolution. But then also when you look, before we talk about creative, or maybe let's talk about creative development, even for products as well. You need creative directors, you need people that are savvy, where they know how and how to create some of these products in a creative way. It also not only is it just for products, even in the creatives industry as well, even the content creators, there's a way they come up with products that are appealing and you've talked about target audience, knowing your people. So maybe for a small business, if they were to hire you, how would you creatively give them a face lift for their product? Which one is very common that has been there since I was born? Which, tell us, which are some of the most common products? Like they get back from way, way back. I feel like Kiwi, a product, everybody has used Kiwi in high school to shine their shoe. But they still, now they have plastic bottles, they also have glass bottles. They still have their can, the short can that opens both ways. So now that's actually the creativity part. And now there's even the liquid one. Exactly. So now for a different product, for anyone who is in business and they want to creatively develop a new advancement. Maybe what are some of the things they should look into? In terms of even making their product more subtle, you mentioned, you must look at your audience if it's an older audience make it subtle. If it's a younger audience, make it more youthful and loud. Yeah. What I would look at is the feedback that I get, the feedback that I get from my TA. And that's the only way cause how I look at business, it's totally, we can have the same product. But since I have positioned my brand, appeals to people who don't care whether it's shining, whether it's whatever, because whoever is going to brush my shoe is probably the help. We have this bachelor who most of the time will not have an extra coin to get that brush and you just want something on the go and you're done. It's the same way. You find people who work with comps. You have a pocket friendly comp and you have the big one that you can, you get in the salons and stuff like that. So it depends on who, they all do the same job, the same task, but it depends on who's using it. And that's where you're able to advise them on this is what you need to do and this is the direction. Like for instance, when I came in, I heard you were talking about the exams results. Do you know Kenyans are the ones who made ChatGBT what it is? It had so many flaws. Yeah. Is ChatGBT a Kenyan innovation? It is not. But the developers, the backend people, it was refined by Kenyans. Now, the beauty about that is we have results that are not quite okay, right? Now, if we deploy a solution which is now the machine learnings and stuff like that, it's able to detect. Me, if you ask me, how would 14 year old still exams and you're not able to detect it? You're in your 50s, you're in your 40s. Is it gonna smart you? Get that thing, put it in the system. The system is going to analyze and tell you this is to the extent of the damage. Cause you see, even the DNA will not give you 100%. It's gonna give you 99.9. So you're giving room for an error and better adjustment. And that way, if we started now in like five years, you look back and you're like, damn. Yeah. This is something else. The VCs do not care whether your product is perfect. They want to hear the story behind it. And hence the reason why we create something to make it better. And there's been a lot of actually advancement in that space for the digital space, including stories, not coding, the coding languages and what not web design, web development. Maybe for you, what are some of the notable ones that you've managed to successfully apply even in Jambupe, Visa and these other many organizations that you've worked for. In terms of now, the backend side, live along the user side. The user. Yep. That's interesting. I'll say it's the one that I'm working on right now. We are tapping into the tourism industry. The tourism industry, what we've realized is just the way we have wild beast. There's a certain point you find there that croc that is waiting for this wild beast and it's very, people get excited about it. Now for us, what we've done is we've seen that journey of tourists because they have summer. We don't have summer. It's always all weather, you know. Then they have to move. Use it to make what? Two winter, enough lads. That's not our winter. They said Nairobi is winter. That's just something. It's just not anyway, it's Kenyan weather. So when you look at that wave, you discover there's a buying pattern and the people who realize this better is the airlines. That's where you'll see Dubai, Dubai, there's Dubai there, you know. They've realized that and they give you the imageries that works for you. So what we've done at PG is we've created a solution where I'm able to use machine learning and tell and pass a lesson. You're losing seven routes because of your pricing. Could you adjust these a bit? And this is, you're probably gonna be making more revenue. So that's how we've done it in the back end. And this is now integrating machine learning and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the notable change that I've seen. Right. Now in terms of what about placement now of products in the digital space? Of course, placement is one of the key highlights. The product itself, placement, marketing, also knowing the niche and also pricing. Yeah. How is it now for maybe a starter? Maybe what are some of the strategies they can use to gain prominence in the digital space? Well, that's a, it's altered to like your cost of operation as well. Like if I'm to compete with you and I've gotten let's say a coupon with, let's say AWS, that's Amazon. And you're starting from scratch and you have to pay it in shillings, you're gonna feel the pay in a bit, you know? So it depends on where I am in what space. I use all the resources that I have. There are people who have family office, for instance. They have a family backing in terms of finances. There are others who have to do it from scratch, from savings, from peer to peer learning and stuff like that. So it all depends on where you are in that space. Then you're able to pivot with whatever you have to make a solution work for you. Yeah. Yeah. Cause at the end of the day, there's a hungry developer somewhere who just want someone to partner with. Yeah. Yeah. A good founder is someone who's able to get the team right. Cause the teams are the ones who are gonna place you where you need to be. Yeah. And you need to be in sync, actually. You need to be speaking the same language because you can also be a raggedy leader. You know? Yeah. It's called micromanaging and workspaces where somebody is so intimidatory and they come off as condescending but you have to be a team leader, actually a team player, to be in sync with the people you're working with. Yeah. Well, just knowing to keep quiet, just knowing you need to press on, just knowing you need to stand on your feet and you know, I can give you an example. I don't know if it was an Apple product where the CEO was not that good but it was, I'm not quite sure which, this is one of the startups, the CEO was not that good but it was a tech survey. And you know techies, we just, we want to be in the back end. You go get the glory. We want to be the people behind it but we have to be the Steve Jobs. Yeah. But Elon is loud and very vocal and gabby. Cause he's good at that. He's good at, like for instance, when he was launching the SpaceX, there was an extra cylinder that was, that was, I think a coal cylinder and then of course they're using the hot air or whatever. What happened is, he learned on the go from a YouTuber who asked him, why do you need this? Then he was like, oh my God. Then he also acknowledged that YouTuber, you know. So you learn on the go, you're not born knowing these things. Tomorrow something else might happen. We don't even need our phones anymore. So what are you supposed to do? You evolve as you move on. Like right now, for instance, let me tell you what I'm doing that's really good. We are looking about the metaphase, the metaverse. Can you imagine buying a Maasai bracelet on the metaverse and it's directly shipped to where you are? Yeah. Things are moving. And Akenyan will not think in that direction but someone else will. Because you want an apple phone in reality. Actually the metaverse is the future. It is. It's the future. We are getting there. It's the reality. It's like the virtual space. I think it also ties it to philosophy and spirituality. One meta and metaphysical means spiritual actually mystery tied to human existence. So it's an imaginary world of endless opportunities. Which is incredible now incorporating technology. Yeah, it is. The last shift now are for products that want to stay afloat. And of course in every business, this competition, I think maybe businesses that do not have competition don't really, do apple really have competition? Yeah. Apple, they have, anyways. They do. They do. Free advertising to see end of the year. For businesses to stay afloat in this competitive digital space, from you as an expert who's been in this space for quite a huge amount of time, maybe what are some of the tools that they can use and also the ones you've used for these corporations that you worked for to propel their brands and they've managed to stay afloat for years and years. Marketing is constant. Marketing is constant. If the need does not surpass the, well, like for instance, when was the last time you had an advert from Salt? Yeah. We use Salt on a daily basis. We now have households, you know. So if the need is there, you're going to attract the people who actually need it. So for you to stay afloat, it's just how you play. Because even a creative, me using a certain type of words, it's a creative on its own. So if I use a proper wordings, then I'm able to sell better because I'm communicating better. If I use the better imageries, if you look at like for instance, an ad from a certain corporation, you're able to tell from way back that green is X. That sound track is basically KBC. You know. Yeah, that's how it is. So when you're able to keep on getting that message on and on and on, and you say you must be consistent in short, by the way. You just have to. And also keep up with the latest trends. Discipline. That discipline has to be there. Had you not woken up today to probably hold an interview. Right. And for you individual, I'm told we have to exit very fast. Maybe for you, what are some of the things you've picked up if you were to maybe do some mentorship program to maybe even students or interns even here. And you are to pass them some few nuggets of wisdom or tidbits. Maybe what are some of those three things that you love to share? And also the experiences you've picked up just shortly before we exit and tell us where people can catch you. Okay, cool. Just always know that everything is learning. Things are moving. The world is moving so fast. We're getting new solutions every now and then. Just be on the lookout on what works best for you. It's in the digital space. The cake is so big for everyone. It's not a competition. It's never a competition. Offer what you can. Learn from the best or even learn from your peers as well. So pick whatever signals that you would want to work with. Do you feel like at some point, AI is going to take over all these other traditional activities and it's going to be just AI everywhere. Now that it's also taken over schools, health, research, everywhere. It is, it is, it is. In business, is it helping? Very much. We've just launched an academy. And an academy is we are training people based on what we learned. So we didn't get to hire someone to come and sit and create all these solutions. We've used AI based on the, we are calling them prompts. So if you know your prompts, you'll get a better result on AI. So it's working and AI can even code for you. Right. Now there's coding, which I'm really learning the coding languages from the Python, Java and what not. It's actually a thing. Do you also feel like it will figure to a place where at least every child must learn coding or must know how to code and the coding languages? I was part of the mentors for Code Africa. These was mentoring kids. These are kids. Yeah, these are kids. These are course taught in higher learning institutions in Manzan. Now kids are learning it. Kids are learning it. And they were creating these solutions and games. Do you know, things like roadblocks. They are kids who are creating their own games and selling them. Right. They are learning how to do it. Kenyan kids are much Chinese. Yeah, Kenyans. Do you even go for it? We are used to having Japanese kids create pigs here. Up to Kenyan to become a grasshopper. They are there. They are there. So the grasshopper part to say how? The grasshopper in biology. I think it all goes down to the parent. So if the parent really wants the kids to learn it. To learn better. They will always push you to get it. Yeah. And that comes again with even the formation of our new learning system, the CBC, which has actually incorporated some of this tech updates. Yes, yes, exactly. So we are getting there. It's a slow but sure way. But we will get there eventually. Lastly, before we go. What is the future? What do you think is the future of DJ entrepreneurship? Well, I can only say the future is bright. Because everything else is going to digital space. And we have ICT centers now opening up. Moikibaki did a good job giving us these internet and everything. So we are moving. By the time you realize it, we'll have so many people. Like for instance, people are doing university courses. We have Kenyans who are writing those thesis. So we are moving in that space quite well. All right. Absolutely. Thank you. So tell our viewer where they can catch you. You do a lot of consultation and many other things. This is your camera. Oh, well. Someone X, you call it X nowadays. It's Nick Sanzakari. That's where you can find me. Or even on Facebook, Nick Sanzakari still. Instagram, Nick Sanzakari. That's where you can find me. All right. Just one comment from my group. In group, yes. And it's all right. This is what you say. Can a border border be a digital printer? Can a border border be a digital printer? Yeah, we're not. He does the delivery. He does the delivery. See, in a BAM too. Definitely, you can do it. I've seen multiple border border guys being digital print walls. OK. Yeah. All right. I'm a partner. I'm a Pajib. Hopefully, you're satisfied. If not, it's a revert. But thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much, Nick Sanzakari. Onyansha. Zakari, your realm. Nick Sanzakari, your realm as well. Actually, Onyansha was added after. Onyansha was added after. Zakari, Nick Sanzakari. Nick Sanzakari. All right. So thank you so much for sharing your insights and we wish you the very best. Thank you. And here's where we take a break on that hashtag, which is why in the morning on X, Facebook, and Instagram, I'd like to offer a channel and art brand, so call 101, see you in just a bit.