 Hey, well, thanks for thanks for showing up today. That's like what are you halfway there? You showed up. That's awesome We could end the meeting right now. I know done. It's it's the George Costanza. Like thank you I leave when you're on time Yeah, hey, this is Christian Buckley with another collab talk podcast interview. I'm here today with Jay. Hey Jay How's it going Christian? So why don't you introduce yourself for the folks that don't know you there's three or four people out there that Probably don't know who you are. I there's a lot more than that, but I appreciate that. So my name is Jay least I am the director of Strategic accounts and solutions for AppPoint public sector specifically focused on the federal market So customer the US government customers in the GCC GCC high and the DoD spaces of the m365 environment In addition to that I run a podcast called this week in teams. I run a podcast called buzzkill IT podcast and I run a monthly community call called the m365 government community call very it's very Wonderful name there. I'm about to kick off fed up a AppPoint series on federal IT and cloud and digital transformation. That's a very inspiring title. That's like It kind of elicits a certain amount of angst going into it. It doesn't start it yet I'm already angry and I'm gonna listen in. What's going on? That's right I have to give credit on that one to ducks raymond sigh and Roxy and debu madhu They came up with that as a series and I'm just I'm picking up where it's left off and and I love it I think it's it's equal parts are reverent and accurate that I think it tells the story all on its own Well, as you know, I mean, I always also picked up the pieces ducks had started up the Office 365 hours Interview series. So I'm doing those every first and third Wednesday. So I've got one this week So it's it's just a it's a great opportunity to go like a deep dive With a single person usually one person into a single topic. Yeah, it's kind of the AMA format or ask me anything Yeah, so well cool stuff well the purpose of this conversation that the reason I asked you over here Jay is to To talk about it's actually it actually came up today So I had my every Monday Office hours the Microsoft community office hours panel and there's always one or two questions that are related to GCC that are related to Fed state or local and some of the nuances the differences there and We all kind of look at each other occasionally know the answer, you know, right, right? But it's but it's pretty pretty consistently where we punt on those questions Are we assign homework for someone to go and love your homework assignments? That's yeah, and yeah, as everyone pointed out this morning. I have a backlog of my own assignment. So Yeah But one so why don't you explain for those that are relatively new, you know Kind of the differences between the those three perspectives. Yeah Well, so my m365 is the the the commercial platform, right? Everyone talks about it as a singular Plot multi-tenant solution and in fact, it's multiple multi-tenant solutions. I know that Germany has its own subset of the technology and then the United States government has its own subset of the technology and there are three Instances within that so there is the GCC Which is a Fed ramp mod while it it started out as a Fed ramp moderate environment There's the GCC high which most people equate to the Fed ramp high Equivalency which is not quite accurate, but that's where their heads go and then there's the DoD and really the difference is Okay, so The GCC and the commercial m365 environment share Azure backbone So there are overlaps there. The biggest difference is office 365 is its own instance for the GCC Whereas commercial all share their technology So there are going to be some delays between something that's released commercially and something that's released in GCC The GCC high and the DoD Don't share that Azure backbone. So in addition to being segregated at office 365 environments They have segregated Azure environments. So active directory doesn't connect the app stores aren't the same And so that really gives you, you know, think of it as the civilian government segment the civilian Law enforcement segment and then the Department of Defense and that's really high level I'm sure someone's going that's not right, but that's approximately how I would break it down Are there any others like at the state of any states Requested to have separate and is is that a thing? I am not aware of any states that have their own Although I am aware that the states are starting to come together and and creating something called state ramp Which is the state version of the federal risk management program So that I know that they're starting to organize But I have not heard of any states having their own full M365 instance I know that there was some conversation after some of the announcements for GPR So the you know over in the EU and and other nations which are creating Similar standards South Africa Australia and a few others that are doing something that there started to be talked about states And I think California was one of the ones listed that had been talking about doing some of their own standards Yeah, and considered looking at but I just didn't know if there was any movement if that's something that was yet a reality Yeah, um, you know the GDPR kicked off a hole that for people who don't know that's the general data protection are Regulation regulation It came out of Europe out of the European Union and it's all about protection of European persons data And the trick to GDPR is it's not European data. It's European persons data So a European citizen in America. It protects their data, too That kicked off a whole slew of Organizations like California creating their own privacy acts and yes, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw which which by the way So my former company was independent. I had twice I had people when GDPR kicked off or the GDPR just for said Matthew's out there the GDPR Started officially I had two EU citizens that reached out and said hey We want you to file this report to tell me how my data is being used And I did with a lot of other US companies does I deleted every record of that person out of my system? It said you're no longer in my system. No, thank you go away It's it's the easier. It's the easier answer Potentially right or wrong aside. It's definitely the easier answer. Yeah That was it's a punt but it was legal and I stand by it Well, there's the other thing too is people realize that the other flavors of the environment that's out there Of course with you know office 365 which was originally MMS Microsoft managed services Which became B plus business productivity online services and so you had that dedicated cloud I think there's still like 30 to 40 customers that are out in that environment I don't it may not be that many but they were the the biggest in the messiest of the The moves over to what is now office 365 what rebranded office 365 and then Microsoft's effort was to Get the platform up to the place where they could move all of those customers that it would support all of their customized needs or their special needs and My understanding don't quote me, but it's still that. Oh, you've been quoted That's out there and published. That's like that Dave Walsh his team. It was my old GM So I think he still owns those Somehow but we need to add that to your next collaboration survey. Are you in SharePoint 2003? Are you in BPoss? Yeah, cuz I saw Dave at the ESPC in Dublin a couple years ago Okay, I saw him and he was out you know speaking in the Congress like you know, hey I haven't seen in a couple years. What are you doing? Cuz I think he also lived in my town that I lived in back then but And so I use that opportunity. I'm like, hey, is that still around is that still? Still a thing and there's still customers on that. So that's crazy Yeah, that's a breathe deeply kind of thing That's the I'll say that those companies that got in at that stage Got a deal where they got Microsoft to be their outsource IT department for a real good dollar amount So yeah, yeah, but anyway, well, so the question that came up you kind of touched on it What one of the questions that came up the one that I remember this morning was asking about the marketplace and If the so they had seen a bunch of great solutions that were available on the commercial and we're wondering Hey, are these also available within GCC and we all kind of went Yeah, it's an awesome question. So I actually only know the answer to this question because AppPoint has experienced this AppPoint has a third-party tool in the marketplace for teams, for example, you can go to the teams app store and you can download my hub and Which is by the way the second most downloaded app within this the marketplace. So is it really? I'm I'm glad to have that knowledge now. Thank you. Yeah so we had a customer say I Can access to your app, but it doesn't do anything and we're like, what are you talking about? You can access the app and so what they did was they went to download my they are they added my hub to their to their teams But it wouldn't connect because the way my hub is built It's built to connect to the commercial instance of M365 and this customer was in the GCC So it can't connect to the GCC So, yes, if you are in the GCC, you can see things that are in the commercial app stores If you're in the GCC high, you cannot again two different app stores What we've ended up doing and I suspect more companies will do this, but we'll see is we've created a Side-loadable version of my hub that can be pushed out from central IT But that one is designed to connect to the GCC or GCC high and and yeah So long long win the day to say yeah, so you can still go in and download that from the one location I mean, I almost imagine that there would be you know, if there are specific requirements between the environments There's a marketplace you don't must be able to toggle between that only show me those apps Which are authorized that are certified whatever, you know through the GCC Well, yeah, that would be nice They don't do it at the at the they don't do it at that instance level They do it IT wide so IT can say you can see this app or you can't but that requires your IT organization to have the forethought to whitelist or blacklist apps in in the environment Yeah, how many people are doing there's a lot of talk about that early on yeah, how many orgs are That you run into are actually doing that What I'm seeing more than anything else is they're turning off all apps And then they're whitelisting the ones that are approved It's the easy way out. It's less Beneficial to the end user because they can't just go get the Jira app if they want to use that They have to go through a process to get it approved But it is the more secure option I suppose because yeah IT orgs want that they want to have that that checkpoint and that makes sense that like Anything within IT if you want to avoid Shadow IT efforts, then you as an IT organization need to be quick to those kinds of us Generally those requests come because there's a business need. Yes, there are those people that are out. Hey, that just looks cool I want to try it out, but usually those kinds of formal rights are Because there's a need that's not being met and as an IT organization It doesn't matter whether you're in the public sector or commercial Find out what's actually going on. Is it just educational issue that they don't understand What can be done with the system out of the box what you know the current capabilities or is it? There's a valid need that's not being met and this solution may need to be yeah I did a whole episode on developing a feedback loop with your Organization with the users of your organization because if you don't they're just going to go do what they need to do the way They can do it so you have to develop that mechanism for them to be able to say hey I need to do x y and z and and figure out how do we best serve that while keeping our content secure and safe? People trying to get their jobs done is like water running down a hill you put a rock and fun and it'll go around Yep, I like that life will find a way Yeah, it's like what was that movie evolution with the David to Covney and Orlando Jones Wow That it's a it's a funny movie very PG-13, but yeah, that's the life will find a way Scenario where Jurassic didn't go right right now. I need to go put that on my I'm looking at pictures of who's in that I need you've not seen that movie. I have not. Oh Jake. Come on you Don't watch it this week. It's not funny. It's pretty on my list That's good in Orlando. I just like what he's the But my favorite line is where the mosquito gets into his suit and they're like I think we're gonna have to take the Leg, it's like don't take the leg don't take the legs like no, it's it's moving up towards his crotch I remember that that I've seen And how they retrieve the insect from him is pretty entertaining. All right, good times Although every guy out there just kind of goes. Oh Yeah, yeah, you can feel the humor in that one. Yeah Well, yeah, so that so that question about the the marketplace then I mean is there something for specifically for GCC hi I mean does the You know when you say that it's not connected to the marketplace. So is there they have their own? Yeah, okay So it is just for that alone. So, you know, is that something again? They've gone and they've created that or is there a specific process to get solutions that are Validated for that. Oh, that's a really good question. So they just recently Released the third party the third party capabilities in GCC hi and I said they have their own and as soon as I said it went wait, do you they I can't remember if GCC hi has an a Marketplace or if you can only side load third-party apps I feel like they have to have a marketplace because even the Microsoft apps go through that but Now I now I'm now I have homework. Thanks Christian. Yeah, I I feel that that answer is correct But if it isn't then J is the one that said it so that's all and I feel good About that being able to move forward from that now I mean, that's the whole point of having six people on your on your office hours, right as you can blame Five other people for the answer to that. We tried it a couple weeks back. We tried to take a picture with all of us going like this Just so we could have like our universal like Yeah, well, I mean in all seriousness like I know it's a punt But the technology is changing so quickly right now We we've been around SharePoint for years as you can tell by the color of my beard So, you know, we're used to the three-year cycle of development. Yeah, like yes There are there are service patches and whatnot, but but major releases every three years You have timed to read ahead on what's coming and test it out and and now it's like wait that that released when We were right. We're about to raise a generation that has no concept of that Yeah, they're just they're gonna be expecting like those those changes changes. I made that request last week How am I not just seeing an MVP of this? Why aren't we testing this out already? What's going on? All right, what's the whole whole generation is not gonna know what patch Tuesday is Yeah, they're they're they're not gonna know what it's like to not be caffeinated as well So Well, it's yeah, I know there's a lot that's happening I don't know if there's anything you work at all with the with the state and local stuff as well less so my role just changed which had me I've now got to focus specifically on the federal government, but I You know my my SE team all covers both Fed and state and local So I do hear a little bit here and there Yeah, because I know that there I have worked with some vendors that worked largely in the You know sled Area so a lot of state of California where I'm yeah, it's in that side of it So friends that are you know partners that are out in the area and predominantly do state California work and I just I Wasn't sure whether there was again whether there was an environment out there that was unique to them whether they Yeah, the commercial, you know what things are unique What what are the different differences between customers that are in public sector over? Commercial like do you see it more focused on security and governance? Is that across the board? Are there other differences? I will say Well one thing that's really interesting to me our fastest growing product by far christian. What do you think it is? I mean, you know Do I put you at the spot right? It's backup, right? Well, yeah, of course. Well, I fast is growing I would have thought like uh, you know pie, but uh, maybe Maybe I don't know what the growth is Overall, I mean, yeah, I think backup cloud backup is probably number one So what's interesting about that is the u.s. Government does not purchase Insurance they don't have Budget to purchase insurance and backup is an insurance product So the biggest difference I see is in the public sector side. Our fastest growing product is actually our governance suite um And while on the commercial side it's backup because the the business is realized that without this backup We have we run the risk of our business going into the ground because of a mistake in the government they they they simply are not Encouraged in that manner and it's not that the it people like to be clear. It's not the it people who don't want backup It's it's that they don't have budget to spend on that. They have to spend the budget on the How do I do more with less philosophy? Which is an automated governance thing rather than a backup thing they also the other thing that we're hearing a lot of in the government side is They're relying much more on retention policies to ensure things aren't deleted rather than Having a backup and recovery solution Um, because again in the commercial sector You want to delete things that could cause problems in lawsuits like you mentioned Whereas in the government sector, you don't want to be the person who deleted something So it is a it is a very different mindset Yeah, that's interesting. You look at each of those pieces. Of course, there's How you Move I don't like the word migrate. I like the word move because migrate is a one time where move is more of a change management You know activity that's throughout the life cycle of your content your data Um, but you you move things. You have the the governance, you know, how things are being managed. Um, you have the uh The the life cycle management, which again overlaps into governance But it's a lot of things like backup is part of that Life cycle management or can be part of the life cycle management. It should be absolutely But even it's looked at differently Um from from those things and how you know what government pays for and or what you know These entities these organizations will pay for or not is really that get caught up in the definitions of those So to some degree couldn't we just put marketing spin and relabel things so that it gets within to sell? We're just thinking out loud here. You know, I I can neither confirm nor deny that theory nor have I Uh, nor will I acknowledge if I have seen Judging marketing people A lot of organizations, but kind of my point there is it's a lot of organizations that get so caught up in the Reactive and there's rarely I mean traditionally organizations don't like to be spend money on proactive Uh steps so whether it be planning a lot of governance falls into that It's really nobody starts thinking about governance and you know in community management either until things start breaking That's right reach until something falls down until they witness bad behavior and they want to go in and correct it Then suddenly they want to go in and institute all those pieces So as much as you know as vendors try to as people that have been in a space for a long time say please Please leverage our experience. We've seen this again and again and again And as you're starting to build it out as you're piloting you have 50 than 100 Then 500 people that are using these systems Put into place these policies and procedures these governance standards and start looking at community management at the You know the the governance automation steps the life cycle management pieces the backup of recovery Because that that business continuity stage That's that really should be that last thing that has to happen that you it's there for security You hope to never have to use it kind of things, you know Um, but look at all of those different pieces and they're all necessary to feel Secure in modern collaboration. That's just the reality They you're absolutely correct and and it's interesting. So not all government agencies are as I've described We work with a number of eight of agencies who you know, they're out there proactively building their intranet Change names name the ones that are the worst to work with Oh, he's frozen. Oh Thank you for naming those So so there are there are places that are are proactively looking at this But you're absolutely right the number of times I have heard Hey, this is a really interesting capability But we're going to test the waters and see what the problem looks like first It happens all the time And it's unfortunate because every single time they come back every single time a year later That I have literally never had met someone a year later and they've been like no, there was no problem They're like, yeah, you were right You know every great share point story Begins with somebody with a catastrophic something or other going on and it and rarely it's it's it's not the like Hey, the server just crashed that like that kind of scenario people understand and it's uh failure to implement or follow a policy or procedure It's implement to put you know to set to configure correctly for that Um, I mean you have um With the like the sony breach and I know somebody on the inside a certain melinda that gave us uh some details of that No, uh back there when that happened at sony and explained a lot of it. A lot of the failures had to do with the um, again human failure the the unwillingness of the organization to go and Put certain redundancies in place to review Personnel and permissions on a regular basis and so stuff happens. Yep Yeah, it it is the human error side One of my favorite backup and recovery stories is simply an organization who turned on or who allowed You know the citizen developer to use power platform And someone wrote a power a power app or a flow. They wrote a flow Which deleted all of the share point configurations for a very popular SharePoint site collection a very highly used SharePoint site collection So all of a sudden nobody had access to this thing and no one knew why Because it was a flow on the back end that just broke and broke the configurations It's like well, wait, how do we recover this? It's like well I mean if you have cloud backup, we can simply restore those configurations But otherwise good luck like you know, it's it's that it's that disaster story of oh man. I had no idea that was even a possibility Yeah, that has happened Yeah, a few times because it's again you you think of in SharePoint world And you know, I think that microsoft has kind of short up the defenses around permissions in a lot of ways And if you're using you know teams as your primary interface You're seeing fewer people that are in messing with touching SharePoint the infrastructure on the back end But a lot so much of the history of of SharePoint and back when I was a SharePoint admin Uh at a certain company in redmond washington and owned some of these these servers And I had somebody who was dedicated to permissions management That was his number one function and 80 of his job was doing that for an 1800 person organization Was constantly reviewing the request going and looking at stuff On his calendar to know to go in to revoke permissions It was a manual process to do that And that's where most mistakes are it's like, you know, you're an overwhelmed admin Somebody's trying to do something like I don't know give them admin access You give them that godlike access to the system and then forget to revoke it Yep, and then stuff happens. That's absolutely like it's it's simply a It's it like you said it's human error. It's and it's constant Uh and and it's funny you talked about that one person in charge of permissions management as 80 of their job So and that's what you say 1800 person company. Uh, so here I am talking to yeah Yeah, okay, so here I am talking to you know department of defense organizations in the millions of users And they're sitting there going okay How do we how many people are we going to need to manage? The collaboration features of office 365 Well, here's this one guy who does nothing but permissions for 1800 users like but You you have to look at the microsoft platform differently and this is a conversation We have constantly you can't look at it the same way and just throw bodies at it There's there is nobody has unlimited budgets let alone the federal government. So I'm off on a tangent Well, thankfully there are third party solutions which help for that Yeah, it's well look there there is that's exactly where you know half the isvs got their You know their their product ideas was from Trying to do more with less. This was the again coming from the share point background is we we have One of the things that is just kind of fun to go back over the last decade of presenting at conferences How many customers scenarios that you hear? As you're interacting you're presenting. In fact, I was sitting in london one of my favorites. This is back in like 2012 and And virgin carol. So good friend. Yeah based in minneapolis With the high monkey consulting by the way So he was doing a presentation. He's a really good speaker and he said, okay Who's the largest organization? How many and so kind of your raise of hands? And there's somebody's like, oh, yeah, we've got like, you know, 200 000 users or something. He's like, all right And how many share point admins do you have? He's like Well, there's me I've got two part time guys And it's like that's it. He's like, you know So he went on and he talked about he's like the the business business Criticality of the platform says would you compare? Share point and it's importance to your business to Like your crm to your erp platform is like, yeah, it's just like that How many people do you have working on your erp? It's like, oh, we've got like 100 people that work on that system He's like and you have one dedicated two part time share point people And some contractors that come in and do some work around it and you wonder why you're running into some some issues So like anything you need to You need to size this. Yep. It's capacity planning includes people Yeah, it really does and and you said something to the isv's learning from trying to do more with less too One of the conversations I have regularly with the federal customers Is is that they have to keep in mind that microsoft has a third party network as grand as it does Because there are going to be i'm not even going to call them unique needs There are simply going to be needs that you have as an organization that microsoft didn't build into the product I know there are opportunities You and the partners Right But so when when when when an organization is looking at this platform, they have to consider You know a percentage of their build of their of their budget for third party solutions And if they don't I mean, I mean Your your your it team is going to slowly balloon Rapidly balloon As you realize that you're not hitting everything you need to or you're going to have issues like data spills and loss Well, there's something that I I'm a big fan of the Like the microsoft 365 maturity model like the concept of the maturity models and part of that is Is you have to start with an honest assessment of where you are as an organization You can't just go in and oh, yeah, we have that now all we're good at that It's like no you need to go through and really audit your systems and understand where you are and be truthful about where you are Based on, you know, the the various levels. There's I think a different kind of Pillars or areas of focus and then it's you know, one through five 100 100 300 level Where you are along that you need to have that baseline or else you can never have an honest discussion About where you need to go and improve Yeah, that's actually so one of the things that our team does here at avpoint the We call ourselves the assist team the strategic team One of the things that we do is we we sit down with our customers and we try to figure out Where are you on the microsoft maturity model? And and once we figure that out the next part of that is where do you want to be? Because if we can see those two pieces Then we can build you a path to getting there whether that's native functionality Or avpoint tools or some other tool set, you know If you can picture where am I now and where do I want to go you can actually build the path to get there And that's I know it's it's counterintuitive to a lot of people like I want to be 500 level and everything around that's like No, I don't you can't it's like it's like perfection You can't be perfect in this lifetime, but it's in a blink of an eye and it's gone, you know It's uh being consistently at that number. That's that's your goal No, but you look at that and say, you know being at a 200 level in communication That's right where we need to be based on our needs and our collaboration style Our culture of collaboration, but we need to improve in these other areas So again doing that assessment, but that's again where you need to go and say look even using Utilizing all the licenses and our enterprise agreement everything that's at microsoft offers out of the box Mainly get us to that 200 level based on what our needs are And so that's where it might be that you need to go and build or you might need to go and You might need to adjust your expectations Down a little bit. Um, but then you know certainly into the third party realm to move you up depending on what your priorities are Yep, no, you're absolutely right and and again, it's it's taking the time This is what we talk about in the buzz to buzzkill podcast all the time Is you got to slow down and you got to take the time to figure out where am I and where am I trying to go You know whether whether you're in the commercial space or you're in the government space Whether you're fed or state and local if you don't take that pause in that moment You're you're not going to be able to move forward. Right What's exciting stuff anything else that's going on. Oh, I was going to ask you about just the We started off kind of talking about the rate of change Yes, that happens and that's something where again, it's an adjustment every week in our live stream monday mornings We go through kind of the message center updates And we of course just touch on the ones that are more relevant to the audience that we generally get And so they touch us more on the collaboration side of things um, I always joke to uh, mike nelson, who's uh, uh, uh data center mvp Um data center management mvp And he's the one that does goes through kind of the listings of the message center updates And I always joke I said in there's there's all of the other updates that came through But none of them are of import because mike didn't include it only the best of best the rest of them Not important don't need to know about no, there's just there are so many things that that come across And uh, you know almost every day. There's something new that pops up Yep, and and so you have to be around different areas And so you have to pay attention to all of that I know one of the requests that's been out there for a while And I is to be able to go in and toggle like the The roadmap site specifically around, you know, the tenant that you're in Or you know the version gcc gcc high Um, and uh get more and more data and there's improvements. They're constantly adjusting Improving the roadmap site But to have visibility into exactly what's happening in the public sector Is increasingly critical because it's expanding It is and they're getting better at it. So, um, first of all, the roadmap does have an ability to look at cloud instance Where you can filter on gcc gcc high do d germany or worldwide. That's why I knew germany was one of them They also some of the product teams are doing it So microsoft teams is a really good example They have their monthly blog of everything that happened in the last month And at the bottom of it, they have a whole section geared specifically to the government And one of the things that I've noticed and this is critical because again been supporting teams government users Since teams came out and hearing the complaints about When's it going to be available to me? When is this feature going to be of it? This is years away if we're lucky well Starting in the last couple of releases the last couple of months We've seen features released for commercial and at the gcc at the exact same time so so Following the roadmap is huge And knowing, you know, if my product of interest is teams knowing where they release that information is big too Because you will start to see more and more geared towards the different instances. Um, like we're seeing today with teams Yeah, I wonder if we And they're they're I'm sure at some point we'll start seeing features Which are most critical into the the public sector will get released into those tenants first Um, but before it comes to commercial like we saw that I mean, so it's kind of a prediction I think it's a it's a pretty shallow prediction It's an easy prediction to make as it's kind of like, you know microsoft talked about for a long time Hey, you're going to start to see that cloud will overtake on-prem Right And and so then you're going to start to see a lot of features in the cloud that will never be available on-prem They weren't designed for it. It's not capable there, but like we're going to see versions Um, that will be available of different features and things which will come out I think in the public sector first It's it's it's almost like it's almost like because there are user habits Uh, uh between even mobile devices Between iphone and other platforms, whatever those things are. I don't know. I don't pay attention But um And and there will be releases that are iphone initially and they'll test those things out And they'll develop even before it comes to like it'll be You know a teams mobile for iphone only Feature tested out before it's even available within the desktop or android Absolutely. I one of the I think we talked about this on the m 365 gov community call For the teams nation conference is the government is actually starting to drive the Features that are coming to the platform, you know three years ago. The government was very much in a wait and see We're not ready for this. We're not ready to put our data there You're not secure enough But the government is now especially with the pandemic forcing everyone to work from home The government is now actually driving a lot of the features we're seeing so I I'm I'm not saying from actual insight, but I could absolutely see Some features releasing on the especially like the do d side Before they release on the commercial side as the do d is pushing for those capabilities harder and harder Yeah, I think that's a good distinction to make that neither jane or I are making any predictions about We're not calling something that we have insight information on it Just or just that I could see that happening and that would make sense and I mean I don't even have the mvp nda on me like I got nothing You know, I I didn't even think about that too the impacts of the pandemic We saw that in so many different features out on the commercial side how that may have impacted Uh, the public sector, uh, you know push as well, but of course that only makes sense I you know, it's blown my mind I have a number of friends who again having supported the government's space for well over a decade now I have a number of friends on the intelligence side and these are people who you didn't even tell people what your job was In fact, my favorite story Small small back small side track What I have a friend who moved from texas to virginia. They went to their first party They asked someone what they do and the person said i'm an analyst and they went. I'm an analyst too Which you know, what are you what's your focus and they looked at her and they're like I can't talk to you And she was she was a business analyst So she from the commercial space is like I do requirements gathering and and they're like no no like i'm an intelligence analyst I can't even No, but anyway Just just it just it was like, you know jack bower Or or not jack bow yet. Well, what what is it? Uh, harrison ford in uh, all the movies where he's was it It was the tom klancy series. Yeah, yeah the klancy one the guy's name. Yeah. Oh, that's embarrassing I love that series too. I know clear present danger Yeah, yeah, okay. Anyway, um Before I went off on that tangent. What was I saying? Oh, this is a good conversation christian. Yeah all right, I like being sidetracked and uh and telling other stories and then I was going to do the uh Just the uh old dad joke of you talked about the intelligence community not that dumb commercial community Yeah, that's that's what it's a slam on you know commercial Yes, yes. Okay. Okay. So I remembered what it was. Thank you for for sparking my memory And what it was was they these people in the tell intelligence community who can't even talk about what their jobs are They have to go on site to do everything They were doing two weeks on two weeks off two weeks in the office Doing cleared work and then two weeks doing Unclassified work from a remote environment with office 365 as the back end and In an environment where you never thought the cloud would even touch They are looking at everything they can To declassify anything that's appropriate to have that that capability to work remotely. And so the pandemic absolutely Shattered the working norm for the government all the way into the intelligence space And that's where I was trying to go before I got lost in the analyst world. Is that why we got um released all the UFO videos? Is that what happened? I can neither confirm nor deny this suggestion. I I I want to believe jay's So, uh Yeah Good times. Well said. Hey, we're we're just about out of time. Anyway, uh, so Folks that want to find out more what where do they find you? Where do they track you down? Are you the bunker that's hidden away because of all of all of the public sector stuff that you do? The easiest thing to do is go to j.leask.com. Um, uh, and you can email me at the same I won't say it out loud, but it's pretty easy to figure out If you want to look at my podcast, you can go there and link over to it or you can go on the spot dot tech Uh, and and yeah, that's that's where you can find me super easy Twitter is Jay Lee's clinked in is Jay Lee. I mean, it's it's it's an easy brand Yeah, it's not like mine every time I complain. I have like a doctor's form to fill out and I realized I remind you how long my name is. Yeah, yeah Really appreciate your time today. Thanks for filling us in and what's happening with the the exciting world of gcc It's my I I need to have very much enjoyed the opportunity to discuss it You didn't have some sound effects or things that just kind of lasers But they've got to be old like 80s style because I don't have an It's like going into like a world wrestling. I know it's that kind of you know your Jay Lee squids G c c ready or not I you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna pre-record that and put that on a thing in my pocket So every time I walk into a customer site, that's what happens That would be kind of a cool ringer for your phone Jay Lee Enter your phone Keep that in mind. Thanks christian. All right. Thanks a lot