 Welcome everyone, this is Jenkins Governance Board. It's the 14th of July or as a reminder, we operate by the Jenkins Code of Conduct. Be nice to each other. Thanks very much. So here's what I've got for topics, news, spokesperson for the Jenkins Board, discourse evaluation status and LFX security V2 adoption project. Any other topics we need to add to the agenda today? Very light possibility of chatting about the voting, I don't know what it's called, ratings for releases. Oh, okay. If we have time and we feel like it at the end of this. Yeah, let's put it there. So ratings for releases. Okay, good. Any other topics? Nope. Okay. Great, then we'll go through the news topics very, very quickly. So Jenkins 2.289.3 is coming in two weeks. Today is slated on the calendar as the day for the release candidate. I suspect it'll be one or two days late. I believe Tim Giacomo is out of the office right now, but Il Defonso Montero has agreed to be the release lead and has started running the release checklist. So we're, I feel comfortable with it and confident. He's got the checklist here and is checking off items. For me, the release lead process of sharing is working great. Next LTS baseline selection is slated for today. And I'm not ready for that conversation yet. So I'll start the email list discussion today. And the candidates, one of the last three releases are the likely candidates. Did 300 ever get properly released? Well, it's released, but it's still not visible in the repository in the usual location. Still in the weird limbo with J-Fro. Exactly. So that alone would make me concerned about making 300 the LTS, but it should be fixed before that happens, right? Well, and for me, there were interesting and useful changes in 301 and 302 that lobby that I think we should go with at least 301 and probably with 302. So 300 as just a security release means that it's content-wise actually one week further behind than you might expect because no other changes except security go into a security release of a weekly. So. Makes sense. Next topic was Google Summer of Code. We've got phase one mentor and student evaluations due this week. And there will be a webinar next week that Kara Delamarco will coordinate to present the five Jenkins projects that are running Jenkins projects in Google Summer of Code, plus one project from, I think it's from Spinnaker. So looks good. We've had several releases of GSOT code already and more are expected. Contributor Summit was the last topic and I've still got the action item to summarize action items. The videos have already been posted and are available. I just got to go through and do the action item and roadmap updates. Any questions on any of those news items? Great. Okay, next topic. Gavin Spokesperson for the board. Do you want to lead that discussion? Yeah, okay. So we got an email what two weeks ago just after the last meeting about a spokesperson. There was a talks about doing a interview for DevOps radio, but I suspect I'd never got around to replying. So I suspect that already passed. But Alyssa wanted to have someone who could be the spokesperson for potential future releases and everything else with that. None of the board has replied. So I don't think anyone is necessarily excited to volunteer to do it. We could look for someone in the community that's interested in doing it. I could totally do it if we need to have someone who no one else wants to do it, but I don't think it's necessarily something that I strongly want to do. I think this is nothing one from the board needs to do because I think most of these questions are related to, I think Jenkins core development. So maybe it's helpful to post on the death list as well. Yeah, I agree. Cause I don't know a lot of other than the status meetings. I don't know a lot about what goes on in core. So. The same is for me. So I'm a plugin developer. I know a lot of my plugins, but I don't know what the plans for a core or for any other plugins. So maybe it's would be good if we have someone with an overseen of a lot of parts of Jenkins. Yeah, and I definitely can because I do a lot of support work. So I keep an eye on things, but not to a lot of degree. Yeah, see, Gavin, I would think that your experience supporting many different users gives you actually quite a broad view, but I also understand, Hey, you may say, oh, I, I'm not sure for me, your title as a member of the board makes it, makes it much more credible. Yeah, no, like I said, I have no problem doing it. I think I'd be fine doing it. I don't think it'd be caught off guard anywhere. I'm just not sure I want to have interviews a lot. They're stressful. So yeah, I'm, I'm totally like I said, I'm totally on board doing it. I just, yeah, I'm trying really hard not to over commit myself as well. Great. But if this is like once a year or twice a year type thing, this is also not a big deal. And I'm, I'm quite confident that it's a low frequency event. I think Tracy, when she was speaking as voice would typically maybe every six months in the most demanding times and more likely every year to 18 months. Yeah. So maybe, okay, let's put it this way. If, if no one else wants to do it, I'll totally be the spokesperson. I'm cool with that. Any of the release team members may have a strong idea on that as well. But they may be a little bit too focused on core. It may be nicer to be broad. That's, but that's a, I think that's an interesting idea. Maybe, maybe what you want is to offer, hey, I'll act as the lead. And if you'd like to talk to additional people we'll bring in members of the release team. Yeah. Good. Yeah, because- This email came in the middle of the heat wave and then it just got slowly further and further down that email list. So. Right. Yeah, so I think let's take it as a, at least for me, I'd say we take it with you as spokesperson and bring others in as needed. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, on the DevOps radio opportunity I just got asked today about that one. It's apparently still available. Okay. So I mean, either you or I could do that one because we did both get asked. I'm cool dude. I've been interviewed by them before and I think you have as well. So they're good people. Yeah. And happy to participate there. All right. Gavin willing, Mark willing. Absolutely. And Uli, I assume if we wanted to bring you into this if we had a topic on UI or on the experience of developers or even your university work, I assume you'd be willing to participate. Yes, of course. But typically if someone is talking about core I really don't know what's going on. So I'm just consuming. Right. And that's great. As far as I'm aware, Uli is the only person who's still active on the UX thing. So there's that as well. Yeah. Yeah. And very grateful for his work there. The looking forward to Simon's Simhoven's work on that, the recent enhancements. Yeah. All right. So no, I know it's way off topic, but your PR for your, your JavaScript to remove jQuery. I did update it. I think it works now. Thank you. And I will, I will eventually run through that interactively again. Thanks very much for doing that, Gavin. Anything else on the spokesperson for the board? Okay. So let's, I'm going to put that as a decision. Call for a vote. So can I see a thumbs up? Plus one. Okay. So we have plus one, Mark, Uli, to call it plus one, but yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Great. Thank you. I want plus 0.5, 0.75. Oh, as you wish. If you, if you wish to, all right. All right. Great. Anything else on spokesperson? Okay. Next topic then discourse evaluation. So, Gavin, this is probably one where you've got the most experience. What's your sense so far? Do we need to discuss it? Is it just proceeding? I would have loved Livia to be here for this. For the most part, I think it's going pretty well. Most of the people who have interacted with it have said positive things. I'm going to draft up another email, probably tonight, maybe later this week to blast still the mail list again and telling people that we need more content. I think part of the early problem is we've both over created categories and under created categories. And it's really hard to create categories to categorize posts until we have posts to start categorizing. Some people are also saying we shouldn't have, it's hard to post things unless there's a category for them. So it's kind of this weird back and forth where someone's like, I want this created first, but then we're like, oh yeah. So I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to write up a post and just say, we want people to start posting as many things as they can. I don't care what it's about. We might even make like an off topic category and just say everything goes in there that you don't know where else to put it. There's actually an off topic, an uncategorized category, but nobody likes that one. So we're not going to, that way we can get as much content on there as we can and see what the use cases are. So maybe we went too heavy in the contribution section. Maybe we don't have enough categorization in using. Maybe we want to have a new one, whatever else. But the more we can content, we can get in there of any sort, the better it will be for everybody. That being said, I don't know if there's official buy-in yet. So I'm just going to keep blasting and see what people say and give feedback. But I'm very happy with it. It's very nice to have everything in one place. I don't have to, you know, look at different mail lists and different chat rooms and different everything. One thing that I think is missing for me is to get some more notifications when someone posts something new. So currently I need to go to the browser and open this community side. And I need to see what's new. But normally I'm focused on your mails by popping up some indicator that something new is there. And this is currently missing at least on my desktop. On my iPad I get these notifications. But it's not on the desktop. So this is something, you know, it would be helpful. Are we okay putting screenshots in this note, Mark? Absolutely. Do you want to do this quickly? So I can walk you through it as I talk? Sure, yeah. So if you go to community.drenkins.io right now. So essentially every time you have a problem with discourse, it turns out they've already solved it and it's awesome. You go to the top corner and go to settings on your face. So here, oh no, on my face. So here there is settings. I don't know where the settings is. Preferences. I have second and last one. Okay, got it. So there is a notification section on the right-hand, left-hand side. And then, yeah, if you scroll down, I think it's either that or it's in categories. Okay, it is in categories then. In here, you can actually, so everyone by default has watched as a default announcement as a default category. So everyone will get blasted if we ever paste something into announcement. But you can put any other categories you want in here. I haven't quite figured out if you can do it like top-level categories or all sub-categories. I personally don't think watch is the best plan. I think what you want to put it under is tracked. Now, what's different between tracked and watched? No, sorry, watching first post is the one I was talking about. So watching first post is the one I have set. So I've set every category to watching first post. So that means if any post you get in that category, or sorry, any new post in that category gets created, you get an email for it. Then you can choose to go watch that category or if you reply to it, you ought to watch it and you'll get emails for it from then on, right? So that's what I want. And then that way I don't have, I think some of the categories I specifically didn't want, but yeah, that to me is what I wanted. But it's all customizable. You can control how much you get notified, how much it goes to emails, how much is web notifications, that kind of thing. So I thought this might be a screenshot we might want to put in notes. Yeah, that's great. Okay, so let me just grab a, I mean, it's also in the, it's now in the recording. So let me grab a copy of it and like that. This is what you're talking about, right, Yuli? Yeah, that's fine, that's missed. Yeah, it's interesting every time we, sorry. It's every time we've gone to say, oh, I wonder if we can do this. Like, I wonder if we can manage categories. Oh, it turns out we can. I wonder if we can manage tags. Oh, it's easy and it's done here, you know? They've really done a really good job of making this design for discussions. So, and we even had our first spam this week. It caught it right out of the box. A bot came in and posted a big spam message. And because of the default says, like your first posts on the board can't have more than a certain number of links or certain number of certain words, it immediately detected it and it never showed up for users. It was great. That's wonderful. Yeah. So that's better than the mail list that gets spam once every week or every other week. Yeah, that's a big victory, nice. So, Gavin, you'll take the next step then and send further promotional mail. I'll do one more blast and then we'll see if we want one more after that. All right, excellent. Thank you. I'm very excited. Anything else on community.jankins.io? No. Okay, next topic was the LFX Security V2 Adoption Project. So, Olivier and is working with connecting the Jenkins Infra projects to LFX Security. He's provided several sample repositories to be scanned and he intentionally selected repositories using different technologies so that we would have that the sample would cover several different languages and several different styles. In addition to that, discussions are continuing with SNCC and the Linux Foundation for their V2 work to better support Jenkins. And this specifically is things like understand the dependencies inside an HPI or a JPI file inside a plugin, HPI slash JPI because right now we get a whole raft of false positives based on their current scanning. Any questions on LFX Security V2? Okay, next topic then, ratings for releases. So Gavin, I'm gonna embed a picture on this one because there may be people who don't know what this is. You're okay if I do that and you can start the discussion about the idea or about the topic. If you go to the community site again, which you are in, there's a link in the discussion already there, which that's good. Oh, good. Okay, great. So your third tab. And you say here. Yeah, it's that one. So I said I'd bring it up in the meeting if you scroll to the top of this post. Great. I don't have an idea what to do for this but it is something that I think the board should be involved with. So I think it really needs an owner and a maintainer. So if you scroll up to the top of this post. Okay. So this is what we're talking about here. We're essentially, for any given issue, anyone can report any community report issue they want. It is a five-line PHP script or 10-line PHP script. You can submit any piece of data you want, which means that there's no real sanity checking on them. It doesn't really say whether or not an issue is open for that version or if it's an old version or a new version, that one version likes to get tagged and pretty much every release but isn't related. So it's a huge mess. I don't think there's any immediate way to solve this because as I said in the discussion, if you make it harder for people to submit, less people will submit. If you make it easy to submit, more garbage comes in. So I think this is something that actually needs to be planned out by someone who wants to volunteer and take it and that it's not me, but I think it needs to be done by someone. I'm thinking at some point, it may even just be not worth displaying it in the current state. Like if we are getting to the point where our data is so bad, it may not be even worth displaying it in the data. Another option is that I was thinking about is every time we have release notes, it could go to discourse and people could just comment on it. So those are like some ideas, but even so I think this needs to be a bigger and more defined project. And I think it needs to get on some sort of plan because right now it's, again, it's written 10 years ago, right? Right, good insight. So it's the system, the system accepts anything. And I put a link in my reply to it at the very bottom. It's like, it literally is like a six line, 10 line JavaScript code. Yeah, so it just takes in whatever you want and submits it. Oh, sorry, not anything. It has to be a JIRA ticket that starts with Jenkins or the Hudson. Okay, all right. So it will throw away if I just put in the number 1234, but if I do Jenkins-1234, it will accept it. Yeah. As we can see by this one where Jenkins 8.815 is certainly not a relevant issue in 2.289.2. Excellent, okay. Yeah, so I don't have any plans, but I do think this needs to be revisited by people. Yeah, so this is one. So now is this something where you could envision it being a reasonable first issue? I'm assuming not because it's got infrastructure things and data accepting things. I think the discussion, it's a split between implementing and designing. I think a first person would be totally cool with designing it. I think a first person could be totally cool to implement it. I don't think it'd be cool for a new person to do both because it is overwhelming to do both. So I see what you're saying. So designer implementation might be a good first project for someone. Yeah, it could be a really great student project. It's not a complex system. It doesn't need a lot of moving parts, but it has to be thought out. Right. We could also just trick our Tyler into doing it by saying the word rust three times. Okay, all right. He's, no. Got it, yes, right? Something in, yeah, okay. Yeah, when I've discussed this with Daniel Beck, his observation was, hey, the value of it is great enough that the spam has just not been worth us filtering. But I think you've got a good point, Gavin, that there might be a much better way to do it to get better information into the kit. Yeah, and I really just want to make the discussion happen. I don't know if there's necessarily a better way to do it or not. Right, okay. Let's be sure that my link there goes the right place. It does, good, okay, very good. All right, anything else on ratings for releases? What was not clear for me is, is it the stump up we are interested or is it the tier ratios we are interested in on this page? Or is it both? Actually, it's both. At least I've used it as guidance for both. So for instance, if we look at the history before 2.277.1, so before we did tables to divs, the ratios of sunshine to cloudy is quite different, right? So here you see it's about a 10 to one ratio of clouds to sunshine, one in 10. And so we did tables to divs and that number changed dramatically, right? Now it's about one in three. And tables to divs was a major change. So that's not a big shock, but for me that was an important piece of information. Oh, many more people had issues with this even with our webinars and with our upgrade guides and all those things, it was still lots and lots of issues. And so the ratio was interesting to me. The ratios have started to taper back now. But then we get this one where the number shows high again in terms of the ratios. And now the question is, and it's a valid question with numbers like Jenkins-2 and 2298, how valid is the data? Well, some of them, 10 times this one, that's actually a valid bug report. So many of the reports here are useful and valid. Yeah, and that's why I don't wanna get rid of it, but I also don't wanna put a barrier in front of doing it, but there has to be something to try to like, you know, maybe it can go in there and say, okay, if the issue you're submitting has not been touched in five years, it's probably spent, you know? Right, well, just flat out say number 123, 69, two, any of these are just flat out blacklisted, you know? Yeah, well, or to acknowledge if the issue is closed and you're flagging it here, it's probably suspicious. Yeah. All valid points for sanity checking, yep. Good, all right. Anything else there on the topic ratings for releases? Nope, just needs more thought. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it could be an addition to the roadmap, it certainly is a good thing. It's just not something that I'm feeling, I think Gavin, like you, I'm not willing to be the one to do it. I've got other things that matter much more to me than that one. Yep. Great, all right. Anything else that we should discuss before, go ahead. I was gonna say, I wonder if like a data scientist would be interested in some of this too, just to see if there's ways to not make it harder to submit, but either to report the legit data or some of that too. Yeah. Yeah, I think Oleg just messaged me saying he's gonna be on hiatus longer. Oh, okay, great. And did he give any indication? So we'll just note it in the notes that he will be out longer. End of July, he said. Okay, great, all right. Any other topics that we need to discuss today? Maybe not discuss today, but since we only have three people in the meeting, is this summer or because it's a bad time for people? Good question. Because there's only three last week too. It's quite in the mailing list as well. So maybe it's the summer. I suspect so, but it is worth again discussing, so. Yeah, so for the three of us, I'm gonna ask it slightly differently. Uli, is this time still workable for you as a time, as a meeting time? It's fine because now my children are in bed and I will control of my life. Excellent. Gavin, is this still a good time for you? Yeah. Okay, and this time is excellent for me. If we need to change to another time, I think we don't wanna lose those of us who are actively participating. I know Oleg, we know why he's out. I'm not sure, and it may be worth a question to Evelina to see if there's another time that would work better for her. Yeah. Yeah, I could do up to an hour earlier or then anytime later for the next like six or eight hours. So I'm pretty flexible this time of day. It just happens to be also my work sprint start day. So it's a little chaotic in the morning. Wow, yeah, okay. Not much earlier than an hour before this time. Yeah. And Uli, I assume that's the same for you that you're getting kids ready for bed. Yeah, we have dinner and then bring the kids to bed. So now they are in bed and now we have nine here. So that's pretty fun. Right, okay. Let's hold. I'm going to hope it's summer schedule and we'll look forward to it in the future. All right, thanks everybody. I'll post a copy of the recording after I get the recording process. Thanks very, very much. Bye. All right, thank you.