 Good morning everyone. This is kind of a nice treat to be here in person and to be here on property. We do have a public meeting with the Massachusetts Game Commission and I will not need to take a roll call. Today is Tuesday, October 24th. It is public meeting number 483. And it's my understanding that I turn it right over to Andrew Steppenhouse. The mayor has multiple hats these days. The casino regulatory manager and interim sports breaking operation manager. Good morning Andrew. Good morning Mr. Chair. Good morning all. Thank you. My name is Andrew Steppen, casino regulatory manager for the gaming commission working out of our gaming nation office here at the image park casino. I don't have much prepared in terms of a presentation. I'm certainly leaving that for the PPC teams. But I will give you a very brief backstory on the topic at hand today So sometime dating back to 2019 I was approached by PPC on the topic of becoming a cashless casino. Now back in 2019 I had never heard the term before and certainly didn't know what it entailed or how it even worked. But as we do through the years we've had several meetings and discussions with PPC. We've had internal meetings and external meetings. And we've come to learn that cashless isn't just cash, it's not the concept of not just inserting cash into a slot machine but it's cardless and contactless too. And what we now know and call is triple C's. As I said we've had several meetings and even more so over the last ten months or so. Certainly since sports waiting has been implemented and legalized here in Massachusetts cashless or triple C has become part of a regular topic of discussion with our bi-weekly meetings with the compliance teams. PPC has even offered several presentations and demonstrations most recently as of last month. Showing everything from how the player uses the app on the phone at a slot machine to how the backend reporting and financial systems work. So this has certainly been on the minds of PPC and Penner and him for several years and perhaps took a backseat to sports wagering over the last year or so. However this is still something that PPC and Pen wish to implement in the casino here in Massachusetts. And that's what brings us here today. PPC will provide a full presentation and a hands on demonstration where you'll get to feel and see the actual application at a slot machine. So without wasting any more time I will turn it over to PPC general manager in North Grendel who will introduce his team who will then give the presentation. Jordan. Thank you Andrew. Good morning Madam Chair good morning commissioners thank you for being here today. I'm joined today by a couple members of our corporate staff so I'll start with Rich Cremus our chief information officer Brian Wasleski who is our corporate vice president at VIT. I'm also joined by Chris Soriano our chief compliance officer and Sam Hagerty with our deputy chief compliance officer. So appreciate them being here through here with us today they're going to walk me through some of the technical aspects some of the regulatory issues that surround this technology but I wanted to take just a second to kind of set up before I turn it over to them a little bit about what this technology has looked like and how gaming has evolved and I always go back to thinking my very first job in the casino was in Harris New Orleans in 2001 and at that period I remember standing back as a fresh NDA graduate sitting outside of the cage and watching people throw bags of coin over the counter to people to replenish and there was this whole process as I was in this management rotation program of how we dealt with coin and how we dealt with cash and what we made the customer go through just to use their own cash and what we did to handle that on the back end in terms of bringing money out to the games if you're a customer and you just wanted to move one game to another you would have to cash out and use all of this coin if the machine didn't have enough money you would have to bring more out to it you would then take that coin and then insert it into another game and it was just this crazy process that as an outsider you looked at and said oh my gosh this is just insane and then fast forward to 2003 where the ticketing technology came out and that was something that was broadly seen as a win for the customer because it was less time spending standing in lines, less time waiting to use their own money and we kind of have stayed in that place since 2003 if Burke were here today and would give him a hard time about being in Atlantic City in 2003 at Show Boat with our 3,000 slot machines and going to the process of going to a cashless casino and kind of living through all the pain of being in both of those worlds for a long time and in that time in 2003 when I think about it it was one of those instances okay well so we went to this cashless technology we went to a ticketing technology but at that time there were still transactions that I as a person was conducting in cash right I would say you know if I were to put a percent on it I'd say maybe 30-40% of my transactions just as a consumer were probably conducted in cash and that's the place where we've been living since essentially 2003 so in 20 years as I think about my experience as a customer and the amount of transactions that I do personally in cash right now I would say it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of less than 5% and whereas I would have expected some transactions to be in cash 20 years ago I think now I look with a degree of skepticism on any business that demands that I conduct all of my transactions in cash it's just it's foreign and it's different not where customers are at this point in the vast majority of society right I think about this morning I ordered my coffee I did not use cash I ordered it on my phone it was ready when I went to go pick it up and so there have been all of this innovation that's happened all around this issue and we for very reasonable reasons have decided not to pursue that path there are regulatory concerns that people have that are valid and there are consumer concerns that people have I think we're at the point now where we're able to address those and so I wanted before I handed over to them just to be a voice for the customer and say you know at the end of all of this we're talking about something that will make it easier for guests to be able to access and use their own money it does not interfere in any way with the current systems that we have they're not required to use it as a system is an option that is available for them to use so I appreciate you indulging me on the history lesson as I get a little bit older those times that I'm able to think back on and help me kind of frame things up from where we are today so with that I'm going to hand it over to Rich Primas and he's going to walk you through some of the ins and outs of the technology Thanks Noah. Actually Brian is going to give you the details of the technology I'm going to do a little more history and a little more emphasis on customer the reason we're doing this is for the customer we want to be able to avoid customers having to stand in lines avoid having to get card reprints it's a very frustrating thing for a customer having to wait in a really long customer service line to get a little plastic card because the first C of our three C's is cardless so you can just go cardless and not cashless even if you wanted to so we want to give our customers flexibility to engage with us digitally however they want to but not limit them from playing the way they were if they prefer to stay the way they were so cash still works Tito still works it all works exactly the same this is an additive technology to give other people like North who want to engage purely cashlessly to engage with us that way. I was actually a chase field as a Phillies fan at a Diamondback game this past week with my son the entire arena was cashless no cash accepted anywhere cotton candy guy I wanted to give him some cash and he just gives me a card reader so our customers are rapidly getting used to environments where there is no cash exchange unless you're my father who prefers to do all of his transactions of cash and gets frustrated with that but by way of a history a little bit of more history we've been thinking about this for quite a long time as North said long before the pandemic but the pandemic was an accelerator for us to work with certain jurisdictions to make our customers feel more comfortable to have to interact with people a little less to have to handle cash less or at all to not have to touch screens that people were not comfortable touching so myself Todd George who's our head of operations we worked with Brian as well and Chris with State of Pennsylvania so back in 2021 was our first launch in June, in fact check me on that Brian, June of 2021 we went live with our first casino in Pennsylvania by that fall all four of our properties in Pennsylvania were cashless so at this point in time we are live in tender restrictions and 21 of our 27 in-scoped properties are live with our cashless technology and some of those date back two plus years our most recent was January of this year I think our last our most recent go live and then we have three more jurisdictions and four more properties that are really in the window of within the next one to three months they'll be live so we're really getting to the end of trying to get our cashless footprint out there and an interesting, Sam and I were talking one interesting observation is human nature would say oh it's all of our younger guests that want to go cashless and while yes the younger guests are interested in cashless we've actually seen a very good spread demographically that 44 to 55 year olds are adopting this technology almost as much as our younger demographic so it's not skewed directionally one way or another of course the 65 plus set is probably the last to adopt they are still adopting but not quite in the same percentages as the others but from 21 to 55 very very similar adoption rates and very very good customer feedback as well so we picked really good partners with acres technology and every the nice thing about every is our wallet provider is they integrate the cash club and the ATM the ATMs on property so it's an integrated solution and from a regulatory perspective their license pretty much every word has a footprint which was also a really really good decision for us so Brian's going to take you through a little more of the process and how our customers engage we can talk about the responsible gaming components of this because it's something we're very very passionate about we spent a lot of time and then I just leave this as this solution was designed highly collaboratively with regulators Pennsylvania Gaming control board have a lot of influence on how this solution rolled out because they were the first to go but also and for me most importantly is we did it with our operations partner so our property teams our gaming operations teams our surveillance teams were heavily involved in the design this wasn't rich and Brian and the corporate IT team go behind and close doors build something for six months and then roll it out and say look what we did to you it was a collaborative effort focused on the property focused on the customer and we're really excited to show it to you today and please at any time questions of course so what I think to do is walk you guys through the solution itself kind of how it functions and how it's so our contact the solution really has two key primary functions one is cardless what does cardless mean? cardless really means we're allowed the customers to get rid of their plastic players right so today every machine that goes cardless cashless has a new card reader on it that card reader actually functions just like every card reader does today out on the casino floor you can still use your plastic card it works fine but it also has a Bluetooth what that allows us to do is a customer can actually use their mobile device and they can say I would like a card into this slot machine they can hold their phone close to the slot machine and it cards them in just as if they were putting a plastic card into that machine. A key piece there is there's no critical information the mobile app itself is not providing any media any kind of personal information simply passing the player's card number just like the player's card would be encoded on the magnetic strip once carded in I have some options so at number one I can actually card into a separate machine so the system is created so that we can actually card into two machines at once technically Bluetooth can go to ten machines but just from a usability function we limited to so the customer can still play two machines at once and you're tethered with that Bluetooth connection so if a customer chose to they can go on their app and they can say I want a card out of this machine and they can card out of it but also just as a fail-save if they actually walked away the Bluetooth once they've seen a certain threshold of signal strength it'll actually card them out of the machine just as if they pulled that better card out again the card readers are exactly like it is today the plastic cards work and the way it works is again if you're connected via Bluetooth once a plastic card in there it'll actually detect that and it will kill the Bluetooth connection and the card will overlap that signal strength about how many machines away does it then so if it's based on signal strength there's a lot of variable a lot of variability in that so again if you have a thick case on there if you have an older phone it varies so what we try to tune it for is between 5 to 7 feet within that machine again some phones have great receivers and can go a little further than that some have weaker receivers and can really just stay within that 2 or 3 feet there so it's more of an arc than a science because you're dealing with all these variables of phones and cases and other signals that are going through the property so we try to tune it to a point where again it's not going to card out if somebody puts the phone sitting in front of a machine but tight enough so they can't walk out of the property right in front of it so we try to tune it to about 5 to 7 feet but again it's based on signal strength not distance so that's cardless and as Rich stated earlier cardless allows you to play cardless you don't have to do anything with cashless you can simply just replace your plastic player's card and again play with your phone if it didn't pick up and the person kind of goes several machines away another patron comes in and sits down and they radically continue playing on they can if they put their plastic player's card in there it breaks that connection if they do right if they put their player's card in there if they don't then yes if you get too far away you could somebody else could get in the middle there the nice part about the solution we have seen the beauty though is the nice part about it is all the transactions are captured right so if that occurs we have that data and we can see exactly what occurred and again we have the reporting in place so that our slot ops teams can actually go out there and figure out exactly what occurred and a few things we also procedures our surveillance teams have access to all the analytics as well they can see transaction level detail game level detail player level detail so in the rare instances that occurs because every technology has some threshold of challenge the resolution process has always been very simple I also think it's important to note that we train all the customers when they adopt this technology to actually hit the button to sever the connection so that the walk away is just a back up option we want them to actually take it's just the same as they should take their card out right we want them to actually take it away so we do train them to do that theoretically a patron I can come and when a jackpot let's say I still have the capability to cash out at that machine in other words the play and therefore the winnings they're not associated with the patron who use their card list so once they break that threshold no they would be carted out and the winnings wouldn't be insured into that former person provided that the new patron cards in but if the new patron does not if the new patron does not card in and for some reason it won't stay right there that that could occur again we have not seen that in a great degree of that occurring and again if it did all that data was tracked right so again that data is sitting there and again I haven't heard anything about jackpots going to the wrong person so my point is though there's still the capability of someone new to come and cash out there the winnings wouldn't be associated with the person who just got up and left that could occur the number of times we see sort of a walk away incident is far less than the number of times a property deals with somebody sitting down and hitting somebody's Tito out for them that's a more frequent occurrence in today's world if somebody forgets to Tito at it, if they card out but they forget to cash out on the machine people could theoretically come and hit the Tito out that happens far more frequently than what we're talking about and that's a lot more difficult to track than it was in the actual metal detail at that point in time then you're going to cameras and trying to walk back the film so I really want to get to the heart of commissioner Skinner's question which is doesn't this open it up for nefarious actors to invent new ways to be nefarious and how are you guys how are you working against it and how are you going to work against it yeah I would say commissioner there's always these potential, there's always new ways where we have to be watching and monitoring we have top of the line authentication protocols, security protocols back of house auditing, etc some of which I think we can explain in more depth but would probably implicate some cybersecurity questions and concerns and so I think we could discuss either doing that in the executive session or submitting a supplement on that but Rich and his team and their security team are working closely with our partners as well to constantly be evaluating any sort of opportunities and threats it's no different than when Tito's first came along and people trying to find ways to get around that system and even some of us who are of a certain age remember the quarter on the yo-yo that folks would use in the slot machine and so we know that the threat actors are out there thinking has evolved along with that to try to stay ahead of it yeah I think we have some very good answers to those questions and we invest a lot of time and money on cybersecurity, the connectivity with the phone and the biometrics in the phone also is key but I think maybe that's something we can provide a deeper answer for in an executive session or offline I think it's my number one question so the second half is cashless, again as Rich has stated, cardless can be used without cashless so that we can replace the plastic clearance cards and eliminate the lines so there's a big win there, if they choose though they can use cashless what cashless is essentially is it's based on a digital wallet similar to a Venmo, similar to a Paypal where again we work with a company called Every and again they may not draw a wallet and they are responsible for all the financial attractions going in and out of that wallet from banking institutions, customers will sign up for the wallet they need to go through a KYC process to get the wallet, at that point in time it's a traditional bank account, it's a Wells Fargo bank account that sits behind the scenes that's in that customer's name, what the customer can then do through the mobile app they can access that wallet and they can deposit funds through based on the regulatory environment and regulatory jurisdiction based on those funding mechanisms, it could be bank accounts, it could be Paypal, it could be Apple Pay it could be credit cards, except for Massachusetts again that will not be allowed and we can track that as well and prevent any credit card funds that go into that wallet from getting into a slot machine or getting into a slot machine in the state of Massachusetts that one is covered and I think Sam's going to talk a little about that later in the presentation, once your wallet is funded a customer can card into that slot machine via the mobile app and they can indicate they want to put funds onto the slot machine, very quick within two or three buttons you'll be able to see it very very shortly, it will go ahead and take those funds, they can specify I want to put a hundred dollars into the slot machine, press the button and within one or two seconds those funds will appear on the slot machine and the balance will get there but first at the end once someone is done playing I can choose to card out, at card out it will take the funds on the slot machine and then move them back into the customer's digital wallet, so very very simple very fast process. So walk me through the technology of the slot machine itself do you need new slot machines for this to happen or is the ones you have currently being able to account for? Current slot machines work as is and again when we take two slides with you is our architecture, so how this works, so there's really three key components of this solution, number one is the slot machine as you just saw with that blue juice card reader in there, number two is the digital wallet we've talked about and then the loyalty app itself, the key point here is the loyalty app is simply a user interface, it's simply a keyboard, there are no transactions or data or money or anything flowing through that loyalty app we actually utilize this in a company called Acres, they have a product called Foundation and think of that like a middleware broker or a traffic cop and really avoid us passing messages between the digital wallet and the slot machine itself and we connect to the SaaS port and we can do is basically send those credit and debit transactions to and from the slot machine and then that Acres foundation is responsible for communicating again between the wallet and the slot machine so the way it would work, the mobile app would say hey I want to go ahead and put $100 on the slot machine 1, 2, 3, it would tell everybody hey take $100 from this person's account, push the 2 slot machine 1, 2, 3, well let's say, got it, they have the balance available to them, it sends a message to Acres foundation, Acres foundation says oh I know where the slot machine is and it talks directly to the slot machine and it says increment the castle speeder in that slot machine those meters are meters that are inherent in all slot machines today again as they build the slot machines years and years ago they had all different types of meters, we're going to increment that meter in that slot machine through that and then vice versa, if we're pulling float funds off the app tells the wallet hey go ahead and pull the funds off with slot machine 1, 2, 3 it tells Acres, Acres talks to the slot machine, lets those funds and it tells the wallet how much to change the games unchanged, the CMS, the casino management system is unchanged but it inherits the transaction information for reporting purposes only, so we've worked with both of our, we use two different casino management vendors, Aristocrat and like Wonder and all of their reporting inherits all the correct information from the game as it would today, so the CMS is not affected by this one bit so the blue tooth card reader has the new technology so in the machines themselves is the blue tooth card reader that goes on there and then there's a little box part of this foundation, there's two components to the foundation one is called the blender, thinking of it like a server that sits again behind closed doors here at the property, and that's that, that's the thing that actually controls the communications inside the slot machine there's a little red box, how about that big that connects directly to the SAS port and the blender can talk to that little box so when we talk about upgrading your machines, probably we've got two things one, adding the card reader, replacing your card reader, and then two, putting that red box inside the slot machine connected to that slot port, that's that's good and CMS is going to address at some point our concern about making sure that no source of payment is secondary credit either, right? Absolutely correct, thank you. And again last piece and Rich alluded to it the gaming system is still sitting there, remains unchanged, it's going to read the same slot meters that exist today, so again what you're going to see is in the reports there we take the existing reports that you utilize for audit utilize for revenue, they'll go ahead and show these cashless transactions by reading those readers that are already on the report. We'll augment those reports by adding the extra cashless column because today most properties that cashless column is not visible on the report, we'll make that visible and you'll be able to go ahead and check revenue has broken down by cash versus geo versus. So I guess at some point we're going to hear from our team about security and how they feel about it and that it's good for the consumer and things of that sort, is that forthcoming or a little later in the presentation? If it's not today, it can be another time. We may have the option of executive session if there's any questions that Chris and team feel that they rise to that, and Councillor Grossman in that room would advise us. I don't think today the team is prepared I think we just wanted to get an overview of the technology today. We'll move into that next page. Because at some point we would have to act. We'd have to take action to apply regulation or otherwise. So while we're putting the wish list together of things I'm interested in seeing, I'm looking right at Chris not in a box which I'm not. I'm thinking about the KYC piece. You have a cool mom who hands you that digital app. Because now it's not a card. A physical card may make me a little nervous to walk in with somebody else's name on it. I'm interested to see how you guys are thinking about and how you dealt with getting 20-year-olds off the floor that look kind of close. Maybe they got through the front door and now they've got this app on their phone. So I'm interested in hearing that. I'll touch on that. We'll go through the demo. Good morning everyone. Those of you I have not met, I think I've been almost everyone on the screen but I'm Sam Haggerty and deputy chief compliance officer and regulatory affairs counsel for Penn Entertainment. So we talked about this a little bit but obviously we are aware of the statutory prohibition in Massachusetts on the use of credit cards for gaming activity. We've actually worked with our partners to develop a specific solution for our cashless wagering system here in Massachusetts. We're going to have a solution where patrons are unable to withdraw any credit card phones. This includes secondary sources such as Apple Pay and PayPal as Madam Chair mentioned earlier. It also includes credit card funds deposited outside of the Commonwealth. So we'll have different buckets of what types of funds are available and anything that is connected to a credit card in any way they will not be able to use for gaming activity in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And the solution is currently in the final stages of development. It'll be ready next month and we're happy to have any testing or questions that everyone has on that once it's implemented. In terms of technical questions today I'm sure we can answer some of them but you'll also be able to see it when it's ready. When you say unable to withdraw any credit card funds could you elaborate? Because what I hear is that your mobile wallet could be funded but the location would be unable to utilize those funds. In the state of Massachusetts you would not be able to fund with a credit card. You're geofenced in, we know you're inside the state of Massachusetts. A credit card funding option would not even be available. However if you're in Pennsylvania which allows credit card funding you could theoretically fund your credit card in Pennsylvania but our new technology has a way of knowing that that source of deposit was a credit card so as soon as you come into the state of Massachusetts those funds that we've identified as credit card deposits are also not available for play. So inside the state of Massachusetts you can't fund and if it was funded somewhere else you cannot use funds that were put in by a credit card. So credit card play will be locked down within the state of Massachusetts. Okay so now we're going to talk about responsible gaming. It's extremely important to pen. I know all the commissioners are aware of that PPC is a big proponent of play my way. I'll address that up front. This is a complementary solution to play my way. It does not interfere with play my way in any way. It's actually just in addition to play my way. So play my way will work the same way on the slot machines. We'll just have these additional options for patrons that I'll talk about. First any patron in order to sign up for a digital wallet with us they need to sign up through a pen play loyalty mobile app first. They have to sign up for an account for that. That includes our KYC up front. That includes the fact that no self excluded patron will be able to sign up for the pen play mobile app and therefore they'll be blocked from making a digital wallet as well. We also have secondary KYC in that. So in terms of any fraud concerns, underage concerns we do our KYC through the pen play loyalty app and then when they sign up for the digital wallet with every every does their own KYC and that includes identity verification making sure that the persons of age that their identity is correct that they have the bank account. All of that is done twice. So there's two levels of protection there. Also we always have responsible gaming information available to the patron within our app. That's not going to change. It's been the same with our mobile loyalty app since we started it. Immediately upon a successful sign up for the digital wallet patrons will be presented with the option to set deposit limits on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. I think it's also important to note that we have daily, weekly, and monthly velocity limits anyway that they can't go over. So I'm not sure of the exact numbers and I'm sure you guys know the numbers better but we have blanket limits that apply to everyone and then they have the option to set additional limits. They can set it at any time. They don't have to do it when they sign up but we give them the option right away just, hey you signed up for a digital wallet. You have the option to set these limits if you want to teach them right up front. And then also they can just go through that and set it and I have some screenshots that I will show you guys about how to do it and I'm sure when you have the demo we'll explain it as well. Sam, can I ask you some of the limits that you predetermined for weekly calls? Is that only using the app or does this also apply to the card? So is this an extra limit? The velocity limits? This is on deposit. This is on deposit to the digital wallet so they wouldn't apply to just apply to the card. But Play My Way would continue to be an effect right so they couldn't play more than they actually budgeted. They don't currently have any wallet that exists right now on properties so there would be no way for us to apply it. So the card right now, there's no, if you have a plastic player card there is no wallet that you have. There's no funding mechanism. Everything is through cash. Currently. And there's no cap on it? Correct. Of it? Correct. I think one additional call out, if somebody sets up a wallet and a pen play account and then later excludes themselves, they immediately lose access to those accounts, the app. They have no more access to the wallet or the app and then we would refund the money at an appropriate time. So we protect people if they disassociate after they've already established the account because we have to make sure that they are not playing at that point. So that's going to depend on the mechanism by which we discovered that they were excluded. There are certain ways that the reg deals with there are certain ways that the regs deal with what we are to do with the cash that the VSE has. What's the scenario where they have it back? So in that instance, I believe that it would probably go back under the funding mechanism under which it came in. So if it was an ACH, it would be a reverse ACH. Did you say the amount? The velocity controls. So the velocity controls are by default are $3,000. So a customer, 3,000. So a customer cannot deposit more than $3,000 in a given day. Across all jurisdictions. And the limits would be on top of that. The optional limits. And then this is also an important point. I think once they set a deposit limit, the patron sets a limit, they can't reduce, they can't make that limit different. They can make it less if they want to have a less option deposit less money. They can do that. But if they try to go over the limit and increase it, let's say they did $100 a day and they want to make it $200, they cannot do that until the period of time that they've put on there has ended. So if they had $100 in a week until that week is over, they cannot go over it. They can't increase the amount to play and they cannot reduce the time limit. So if they made it for a month and they say well it's been a week and I really want to play again, it doesn't matter. You can't change it to a week. You can change it to two months. You can always make it more strict. You can never make it less strict once you've settled in it. I still have a question on the KOS these days. I completely understand the verification on both the account and the app and understand that. The scenario I'm bringing up is more of an underage and an AML scenario, which I imagine I'll talk about in this room right now. But Chair Judd Stein signs up. It's all good. I'm using her as an example. Everything's all good. It's her. You know it's her. It's her account. It's her funds. Now she hands me her application ID and her password. I download it to my phone. Log in as if I'm chair. And I walk up and hit that. I want to know what you guys are doing to make sure that's not happening. Because I imagine people get new phones. People get new devices. They're going to be able to log in from one device to the other. What's to stop someone from logging into someone else's device when they've given them the password and the access. I'm trying to wrestle with that in my head. I would say that the same things that apply to a person who would walk in with a Tito that their cool mom gave them. Or walked in with cash that their cool mom gave them would apply here as well. In other words, we have a policy in terms of who we ID at the doors in terms of saying like if they look below a certain age then we'll request an ID. What about the drug dealer? What do you mean? What about what if they're 40 year old? And it's an AML situation. So there are certain I mean all of those processes that we go through for the person who is an AML concern apply here as well. So all those things that we do from an AML perspective to determine source of funds would be the same thing that we would do here. And the one thing that I'll add on the noise we have because I'm sharing the same concern is that it kind of has to play earlier. It's so much easier to inject an account. And the other thing, I just want to kind of go back to I don't know maybe I misunderstood commissioner Skinner's question from earlier and it was surrounding jackpots. I just want to be clear that we have instances today where we need to verify who actually pressed the play button before that jackpot was triggered and confirming the identity of the person to whom the funds are supposed to go. So in that instance where you know if somebody was carded in with the mobile app and a jackpot we're still going to go through those same procedures. We have instances now where the team may say I'm not sure that the person who's claiming this jackpot is the person who should receive the funds. And so we go through a verification process that involves a couple different technologies now. So that would still take place here. You know if somebody is using a mobile app all of those same procedures would go into place. We have obligations that are federal obligations to make sure that the person who triggered the event is the one who's receiving the paperwork that's associated with that event. And I also want to add that we designed this technology in mind to go back to Commissioner Maynard's point a little bit. We designed this technology with the fact that we want surveillance to be able to see clearly what's going on. So I mean there was a lot of trial and error on making sure that this is visible to surveillance from up there. And so they can see everything on the cameras up there so they can flag it or if compliance flags it for them or one of those systems we have the tools to go back and look and make that right. Absolutely. So in terms of responsible gaming we also have the options to set up email or text alerts with the patrons daily, weekly, monthly summary of their usage. So they just have the option to kind of keep themselves in check and keep a record. They can also always go into the app at any time and look for their pending transactions a specific time frame in the past or a specific transaction or amount. That one is interesting because I'm trying to think about the sports rendering context. So you can have your phone with both your PSI here. Do they, can they set up those kind of email text alerts on the PSI sports betting app? I think so. Can they set up for pen play? Are you able to do notifications on the sports betting app in terms of your cash in cash out? Yeah I believe so yes. We'll follow up with the interactive team just to double check but I'm pretty sure yes they can do that as well. I see Mark Vanderlin and I was thinking about the whole conversation about if you get reminded is it an incentive to go back or is it an incentive to realize some of that? Right. I know we have that conversation on the sports betting side. Yeah and there is that, there obviously is that question. Another point that we talked about before and I want to make sure it's clear is that in terms of the limits and just even if you don't set a limit if you fund the account with $500 it doesn't order replenish when that $500 is gone. So once you gamble through that $500 you have to make the specific decision to refund and there's a bunch of screens and messages that you go through to do that. So it's a deliberate decision by the patron. You can't auto fund your account. So this is just kind of a screenshot and you'll all be able to see this when we demo the actual technology but I just wanted to show you kind of how you can set these deposit limits. You have options you can set any kind of limit there and then you can also enforce it one day, seven days, 30 days, cost a number of days up to a year. And then that limit is set for that specific amount of time no matter what you do. I mean we can't even get around it. You can't go to an employee. Obviously not that we would do that but an employee doesn't even have the ability to do that. It's set and it's done. So that's how the limits work. So this is the first screen I'm going to see. After you sign up successfully and you go through the KYC. I think that's it for my slides. So happy to answer questions or show you the demo or both. And thank you so much to everyone for making the time to come to that. I really appreciate it. So Stan just following up on the commissioner's point, the feature of the tax fund, it sounds good because we know where the intention is coming from but it will be an interesting question to explore and I know my new mourners here today's in the council along with my family are going to explore sort of the science as to whether the tax is helpful or not and we've had that debate. I have to say personally I am much more at, my husband would point out that he created a little bit of a monster by really nailing down my inability before to use my Apple watch to pay because I was having sort of physical problems and the beast has been unleashed. So I'm pretty facile now where if I have to look in my purse for the $20 bill. So there are responsible gaming issues and I appreciate that you've taken that look and we also appreciate your commitment to play my way and to responsible gaming but I don't know if you've had any research done on whether you're getting feedback that it's easier people don't want to spend. Is it easier to spend more? Easier to gamble more. I don't know if you've had that. So I mean as we said we've kind of been in adoption for about two years and slowly adopted throughout the US jurisdictions I would say at this point we haven't had specific research done on it but we have all of the data which is great so I mean obviously we wouldn't want to share that in a public meeting but to the extent that that would be helpful anonymized data we have all of it. We can easily provide it, look into it, update it as needed and kind of look for things. It's kind of crazy the amount of data we have actually so it's which is nice right because we can do those things we can look into it and re-evaluate constantly. Chair if I may on that point we as Sam said we have not had a systematic study of it done in terms of the usage of limits and alerts. I will say that the anecdotal feedback I've received from other regulators who we've worked on this is that they view it as positive that we have this in the ecosystem but that being said we're more than happy to continue as we all evolve our thinking. I don't think we intend our limits and protections as they are now to be static forever. As we learn more as we think of potentially better ways to do things we're of course willing to embrace that. Can I follow up on that point? The psychology between how far is the ATM to walk to the ATM and I'm looking at mark two recreating that on the app is something I would be interested in to your point Chris which is how do we do that in a way that's responsible and fair and correct. I was thinking about your customer experience interruption the counter to that would be sort of what is it the urge they have those meditation apps right so you X minutes gets you over the urge to go back and eat the brownie again. That waiting in line with your Tito ticket or your coinage mine has sort of been an inherent part of the experience that tempered spending from an RG perspective that obviously is not really there necessarily in the app but to your point you looked at in terms of how do you get that counter in there. Brian can demonstrate it but there is a number of probably not the same as the walk to the ATM time was but there are it's not a one click to refund so the balance goes to zero there's probably what seven or eight screens Brian and then a couple of confirm confirm X so there is a period built in which we think has been fairly effective from that regard and again it's something in conversation we've had with other regulators who appreciated that period of time that it's not a one click replenish or an auto replenish but I agree it was certainly something we can discuss. Are there times in terms of like you're going to have to wait two minutes to click button four? Yeah we don't have that but there are a significant number of steps. Just a question for the gentleman to go back to Sam give her a chance to agree. Anything before the actual half of the presentation or north can members always do the demonstration and then come back if there are more questions. So that's a good segue Sam because we're trying to figure out procedurally how we should come up and I think that the commissioners who go as a group and I don't know how much room a team members follow us in as well but we probably should be required of us because it isn't probably even and I understand we're going to rotate prior groups through and then at a certain point maybe we pause again to be able to ask questions in this setting and then at some point close out if there's some continuation of the presentation. Thank you. Sam. Yes, Madam Chair that's exactly the plan. We'll be happy to take the commission first and we're committed to taking as many groups through as necessary. Thank you. You know. Am I blocking? I'm just excited that there's this. Do people still go on? Decorative. Decorative. I know. So what we're looking at here is the pen play mobile apps. This is our traditional loyalty app. So customers today can go in and see what their earnings are. What offers they have. They can go in and see what properties are there. Typical loyalty app. We've given it an extra button down here at the bottom. It's the 777. That is the cash list button. The card list cash list. They can go ahead and click that button. And it's going to bring them into the card list cash list. That's a big amount. That one there? Again, that's a test phone. Notice there is, again, the top of the screen shows you what is actually in the wallet itself. So that's your wallet balance. And then you have two tabs here. One is slots, BLTs, obviously investors tables with the client. And then you have two buttons. Connect to game. And that means I can connect to two different games at once. To do so, I would simply click connect to game and we'll do that. Before we do that though, we talked about the card readers. Again, that's these kind of card readers over here. They function exactly like card readers today. What you'll see is once somebody is actually carded in, it's going to change colors for us. So again, we'll say connect to game. It's going to give you a little animation to hold it close to the machine. So you can say I have Super Server. Super 7's is my game. And I can see my asset number here. So a customer can look at the asset number on the game and say hey, this is the asset from a match. So they can be confident they're connected to the right machine. Also notice that the card reader went green saying I'm connected to the right machine. Can I just do one thing? 211. There'll be some education on this, right? There'll be some education. So our marketing teams and our property teams will educate customers kind of how this functions. In addition, teaching customers, hey, when you're connected, we want you to cart out. And again, we want you to cart out and train customers. And make sure you're on 211. So you don't get all excited. To Brian's point, he had to deliberately hold the phone about an inch from the reader. And that was an intentional design. We could have made it from farther back. But we want people to know what machine they're carting into. So the disconnect range is long. Correct. We just want to make sure that they have to select that so they know. If you want to answer your question or comment that they are choosing that game system. To your point, again, it is to connect that's close and then release it as they connect. So Sam, when do you do the training? I mean, we do it at launch so we usually have at our launch, we'll have customers come in and we'll train them and then we can keep doing it. But prior to that, I mean, we've got training for staff and then any NGC staff that wants to come and play my way. Staff wants to come and we're happy to brought the training to everyone. What we've also seen really successful is we set up sort of head and play focus areas where customers can go and talk to somebody about it. They can get help setting up their wallet if they want to. And we can step them through that. So we give them the option of coming and getting, it's almost like going into the Apple Genius store. A little bit of that experience, very personal touch, or they can do it on their own. We design it to try to make it as intuitive as possible. This is going to be a really short demo. So again, once I'm connected I have two buttons. One says add funds, one that says cart out. I could click the second connected game button, and I get the animation. I can hold it close to this machine. And again, I can see American Beauty, I can see the asset number. And again, I still have my few buttons. I can control what machine I'm courting into, courting out of. And I can control where I'm adding funds. So in this case, I wanted to add funds. I said, well, let's add a few super-sevens. I can click the add funds button. I can specify an amount. And again, I can go incrementally or I can just do one of the quick add buttons. What did I get connected to the quick add buttons? Uh, 20, 50 and 100. So they don't change spending on the machine? They do not. And I can click add funds. What you're going to see, it'll quickly go ahead and communicate. And then I'll get a success message on there. That's when you confirm. You can see I have those funds now on that slot machine. And I got a message that says success right on super-sevens. And I thought of any amount that I could add on this machine. On this machine, you can add a lowest amount. No sense. So it has to be down to $1. So I could put $1 on this machine. Correct. But again, I could show you. I can click add funds. And I can say I want to put just $1 in there. Oh, we can. I can do an increment. Oh, so you can do one. Those are the pre-determined. Shouldn't you have a minimum bet option as your default? I feel it. So you're not on any point. Got it. Something to look at. Because I didn't see that you could actually do the one. But you said 20 could do a dollar. 20, 50, 100. I thought that meant I have to do this. Got you. But you have to like... Then I have to do like $5 I could do that. You could even average out the machines. Right. And Brian, it's not impacting your major. You could put cash into the machine. You can get back to Tito. But if I were doing cash, there's no minimum to load them. There's no minimum to load a dollar on. There's no minimum to load a dollar on. A lot of people play out. I mean, when I used to play, I would play out to whatever. Right. If I do a dollar, I think I did this machine here. I did the $5 there. See, I got $5 on this machine there. Man, success. Now very easily when I'm done, I could say American Beauty, I want to cart out. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to cart out, and you'll notice this will go blue. The $5 will get pulled off the machine, and I'll get notified. So I'm going to do this one first. See, cart out. The funds went to zero. Carburetor went blue, and it says I've carted cashed out. And the last thing is again that walk away. Again, training customers to cart out. But if there's some reason I forget, I get excited. I run away. And I'll walk out. And as I break that threshold, I get excited. Yeah, the rooms. It doesn't say hey. It dings loudly. But that's more than 3 to 5 feet. It is. And again, some phones will be depends on the signal, depends on the case of the phone, depends on the environment. You could have just as easily hit that 5X, 50 lines right there. It could hit. Again, but we've got surveillance. Primary message is cart out. That is not the preferred way to cart out. That's a failsafe. You can do it on your phone. You can do it on your phone. You can still IT them. So all the functionality stays the same. Again, today even if someone takes the cart and walks out of the fun machine, again the same crime exists, this just gives you a little more control. And a lot more information. Now, you did two games. And I think Brian, 90X percent of our customers do one game. Very, very few. And they do one too. You cannot do one. One thing we didn't mention about cashless I mentioned when I was talking, there's a safety component to this of not having to walk around a lot of cash. Moving back, and then you can move or index your bank account. So there is sort of a person saying you want to do parking lot with a bunch of cash and a lot of customers are comfortable with that. So there's an answer right back. If you win big, let's say not over the 1200 limit, so the taxes, you just win $500. That just stays right. When you cash out. Now a big jackpot, you still have to come over and process it just a little bit. It's a little like a machine that's different. When you walk out without having to get there cooler. Even if someone got stolen, I mean you would need to go through when a phone password is. That was so good. That was so good. For carrying the cash in a cooler. I was just saying if someone leaves their phone after a machine, it happens weirdly often. If I went and picked up their phone, I would not only have to, if they said you set up, if they have a numerical password set up, fingerprint, whatever, I would need to bypass that, and then when you go to the pen play out they need to put in their password from that. So to that point, does that time out after a minute or so, the screen itself? The screen depends on what the customer's phone is at. Gotcha. And then from our responsible gaming deposit limits, I can go in and click in my wallet here. Here is the account settings. I have the ability to go ahead and do a mobile deposit limit. Now again, the moment I set up my account, before it ever lets me into the wallet, it asks me if I want to set up a deposit limit. That's part of the journey on registration. Yep. And when we turn the customer's gaming total map right up front. So in there I can say I want to set the deposit limit. That was set. And then I would enter in a length of time. And the faults are 1, 7, or 30, but I can put in a number of days. And again, that can't be changed by anybody. Not pen, not even every one runs a wallet. That cannot be changed. It cannot be less. You can only have one wallet. I think we have several phones. If you guys want to play with it or do it on your own, you're more than welcome to. We do have one member of the public, but I do want to invite her to ask any questions. We have typical public meetings. We can't do that. Exactly. Yeah, so every has a voluntary self-expulsion program that we encourage patrons to sign up through that there's a paper application that someone would get through the cage in the game since the advisor would help them fill that out so they can't access the ATMs. I was just asking if someone has VSE through every if that's going to stop them from using the app here. Yes. David's clue through every slide will apply anywhere that wallet's used across the property. Oh, sorry. I know it's DAP and SEP. We have excluded one, excluded one. It's all policy. Any way they self-exclude of any property or any online platform, they're excluded from everything. So if they did this on this, and vice versa. It's real time. So the minute we enter the exclusion, that app can shut down and have a wallet as done. So does the digital wallet as well. But the every exclusion is a separate type of exclusion. And so I don't know how it would, what type of message would you receive or what would the experience be on the app? That would get entered into PENGIN. If every does this their own, we would see that in PENGIN. But again, they wouldn't have access to the wallet. I'm wondering you were saying you have a ton of data. If you've been able to assess whether transactions have been faster with using the phone versus cash. I don't know that we've actually specifically looked at it yet, but we certainly have. Is that something that we could explore or if we were anything necessary or just not quite ready for that anyway? I think we would have to process the data in a moment. Now that said, I think I've been offered that if there are specific data points that the commission would like to see, we can take that away from their report. That's right. What's that doing? I think this could have been happening. Yeah. The interesting part is for cashless, that data is easier to get through than it might put in cash machines. That data is not as easily accessible. Cashless, every transaction that occurs is logged at a date and time. I see four great people. Yeah, exactly. Do you want to use the app itself? It's a great presentation. Are you all set now? I appreciate this. Thank you very much. I appreciate you guys coming. Thank you. Thank you for giving us the presentation. Thank you for Marlene Moore, who was our member of the public. We did present a couple of questions that we thought might be appropriate for executive session. Councillor Grossman is going to have to figure out whether some of the questions fit into the Masters of Law in respect to executive sessions. It probably does make sense for us as we discussed to go through our questions again and then you'll be able to assess how they can best be answered. You started with a question that if you want to reframe or not reframe just remind PED and PPC of what you'd like to address and then we'll see if it's something that can be in the next session of later date. First I would like to say thank you for the presentation. It was very helpful. Even if it's not appropriate for an executive session I'm fine with waiting until a more fossil answer either way. My main concern is about the fact that it's really easy to share apps. We know that everybody there's probably people in this room don't raise your hand who share Netflix. What we want to do is I want to know what's to keep an underage better if you've got the information from the parent or a cousin or what have you from logging in and using this technology what are you doing to combat that? How is it different than how you're doing it with the card and the floor today? I would also expand that to AML considerations also. How are we making sure that folks aren't using this in a serious way? And what do you have in place? What are you thinking about? What have you seen? And going forward what protections are in place? We've captured that. I think the only thing I would add to that just in light of some of the breaches that have happened in the industry and some of that lately if you're touching on the cyber security maybe publicly disposable and some of that might not be intended. And then I think we had a question regarding whether you had any intelligence research with respect to the responsible gaming question around the ease of using cashless versus cash and I think that Councilor Grossman had a little bit concerned how that might fit into an executive session but we'll leave it at that clarification on that point. I know the NDA might be an analysis that has to happen. Taking the NDA and how this goes around and then another area in that where we talked about the speed of the transaction I'm also curious in other jurisdictions that for a couple of years whether you have historical data anonymized to say whether the average bet changed at all given the ease of the app. Other questions that you've thought of are a presentation here and the presentation of the demonstration. What's that? I do have one here and I know this isn't unique to the 3C technology but if you have any information or instances where a patient walked away still walked into the machine but then someone comes out and starts to play that would be helpful and I'm not really sure what information I'm looking for beyond just number of instances how do you resolve just your normal practice as to how you go about reviewing something like that. Not an unusual question I think we can give you a really good answer on that one. So as we understand the pan team and PVC team will be keeping the demonstration room open for those who didn't participate in the last demonstration but at this point I think that we are able to adjourn the public meeting unless there's any other business commissioners that you have. Mr. O'Brien reminded me yesterday that we do not have to do this by roll call and sell. Do I have a motion? Those in favor? Aye. Any opposition? Thank you very much. 5-0.