 In the name of God, his Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, amen. Almighty God, by whom alone all kings reign, and princes decree justice, and from whom alone commit all counsel, wisdom, and understanding. We, thine unworthy servants here gathered together in thy name, do most humbly beseech thee to send down thy heavenly wisdom from above, to direct and guide us in all our consultations, and grant that we, having thy fair oldest before our eyes, and linear side all private interests, prejudice, and partial affections, the results of all our counsels may be to the glory of thy blessed name, the maintenance of true religion and justice, the safety, honor, and happiness of the queen, the public will, peace, and tranquility of St. Lucia, and the uniting and knitting together of the hearts of all persons and estates within the same, in true Christian love and charity, one towards another, through Jesus Christ our Lord, and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with us all evermore, amen. Good morning, Senators. Hello. I beg to announce that since the last sitting of Parliament, His Excellency has been pleased to ascend to the following bills, Companies Amendment, International Trust Amendment, International Business Companies Amendment, International Partnership Amendment, Income Tax Amendment, Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information Amendment, Agreement on Extradition St. Lucia and the French Republic, Free Zone Amendment, Child Care Protection and Adoption, Child Justice. I beg to report that I have received correspondence from the Speaker of the House of Assembly, advising that the following motions and bills were passed in the House of Assembly and forwarded to the Senate for its concurrence. The Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to authorize the Minister for Finance to Guarantee Borrowing, by the St. Lucia Air and Seaports Authority, Slasper, to finance the Human or International Redevelopment Project, was passed on Tuesday, 11th December, 2018. And on Wednesday, 12th December, 2018, the Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to authorize the Minister of Finance to borrow from Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan, for capital expenditure to finance the Road Improvement and Maintenance Program. The infrastructure repairs to schools and the Housing Development Program. Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to authorize the Minister for Finance to borrow from the Bank of St. Lucia Limited, for capital expenditure to finance the National Sports Infrastructure Strategy and Action Plan and the 2018-2019 budget. International Trust Repeal, International Partnership Repeal, and the Gaming Control Amendment was passed. I extend Christmas greetings to all members of Parliament, the staff of Parliament, the staff of the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner, members of the Diplomatic Corps, members of the St. Lucia Royal Police Force, the Office of the Mayor and all public servants. And last but not least, the staff of NTN and the media. Statements from Ministers, papers to be laid. Honorable Minister and the Office of the Prime Minister for Finance Responsibility for the Public Service and Leader of Government Business. Madam President, I beg to lay the following papers. Standing in my name. Statutory Instrument No. 98 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital expenditure, Health Systems Strengthening Project. Statutory Instrument No. 99 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to borrow, to guarantee borrowing by the St. Lucia Development Bank for the National Insurance Corporation. Statutory Instrument No. 100 of 2018, Value Added Tax Act. Resolution of Parliament to approve draft Value Added Tax Amendment of Schedule III order. Statutory Instrument No. 101 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament authorizing the Minister for Finance to borrow by means of advance. Statutory Instrument No. 102 of 2018, Revised Edition of the Laws Act. Resolution of Parliament to authorize the making of the 2014 supplement of the Revised Edition of the Laws Commencement Amendment order. Statutory Instrument No. 103 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament authorizing the Minister for Finance to borrow for capital expenditure. Organization of Eastern Caribbean States, Micro, Small and Medium-sized Enterprise Guarantee Facility Project. Statutory Instrument No. 104 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital or recurrent expenditure. Eighth Water, January North Water Supply Redevelopment Project, Amending Loan Agreement. Statutory Instrument No. 105 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to borrow from First National Bank, St. Lucia Limited for capital expenditure to finance the 2018-2019 budget. Statutory Instrument No. 106 of 2018, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to borrow from First National Bank of St. Lucia for capital expenditure for infrastructure development. Statutory Instrument No. 107 of 2018, Tourism, Stimulus and Investments, Darren Child's Investments Incorporated Order. Statutory Instrument No. 108 of 2018, Tourism Incentives, Darren Child's Investments Incorporated Order. Statutory Instrument No. 109 of 2018, Fiscal Incentives, Paradise Food, St. Lucia Limited Amendment Order. Statutory Instrument No. 110 of 2018, Revised Edition of the Laws, 2014 Supplement to the Revised Edition of the Laws, Commencement Amendment Order. Statutory Instrument No. 111 of 2018, Price Control Amendment No. 16 Order. Statutory Instrument 112 of 2018, Excise Tax Amendment of Schedule 1, No. 6 Order. No. 16 Order. Statutory Instrument No. 113 of 2018, Tourism, Stimulus and Investments, Lucia Limited Order. Statutory Instrument No. 114 of 2018, Tourism, Stimulus and Investments, Safari St. Lucia Limited Order. Statutory Instrument No. 115 of 2018, Tourism, Stimulus and Investments, Malaba Beach Limited Order. Statutory Instrument No. 116 of 2018, Legal Profession, Eligibility, Syrah Marie Abraham Order. Statutory Instrument No. 117 of 2018, Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Agreement, St. Lucia and the French Republic Regulations. Statutory Instrument No. 118 of 2018, Value Added Tax Amendment of Schedule 3, Order. CIP St. Lucia 2017-18 Annual Report, and finally, Madam President, Invest St. Lucia, Annual Report 2017. Motions, Honorable Leader of Government Business. Madam President, I beg to move the following motion, standing in my name. Finance, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament to authorize the Minister for Finance to guarantee borrowing by the St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority, Slasper, to finance the Hironura International Airport Redevelopment Project. Whereas, it is provided under Section 41 of the Finance Administration Act, Cpt. 1501, that a guarantee involving a financial liability is not binding on the government unless the Minister grants the guarantee in accordance with the enactments or with the prior approval of Parliament by a resolution of Parliament. And whereas, it is further provided under Section 42 of the Finance Administration Act, Cpt. 1501, that any obligation arising from a guarantee given in accordance with Section 41 is a debt charge and all debt charges for which the government is liable shall be charged and paid out of the consolidated fund. And whereas, the Minister for Finance considers it necessary to guarantee a loan in the amount of US $100 million from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan, by the St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority for the purpose of financing the Hironura International Airport Redevelopment Project. And whereas, the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a five-year grace period. And whereas, the interest is payable at a rate of six months, London Interbank offered rate plus 1.5% per annum. And whereas, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of the five years has expired. And whereas, interest shall be paid in the amount of US $2,195,000 semi-annually during the grace period and thereafter, after the six-month London Interbank offered rate. And whereas, the terms and conditions proposed by the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan are accepted. Be it resolved that Parliament authorizes the Minister for Finance to guarantee in the amount of US $100 million from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan, by the St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority for the purpose of financing the Euronora International Airport Redevelopment Project. Be it resolved that, A, the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a five-year grace period. B, the interest is payable at a rate of six months, London Interbank offered rate, plus 1.5 per annum. The loan payments, C, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired. D, the interest shall be paid in the amount of US $2,195,000 semi-annually during the grace period and thereafter, at a six-month London Interbank offered rate. And E, the terms and conditions proposed by the Export-Import Bank of Republic of China are accepted. Senators, the question is that Parliament authorize the Minister for Finance to guarantee a loan in the amount of US $100 million from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan, by the St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority for the purpose of financing the Hewanora International Airport Redevelopment Project. Madam President, my apologies. Allow me to, please allow me to give a briefing of this resolution before you proceed. Please go ahead, Leader of Government Business. Thank you very much, Madam President. Madam President, this is a very important motion and resolution that I just cannot present it without giving some explanation as to the reason why we are here, although the resolution speaks of it in terms of the financing and the purpose of the loan. But Madam President, this is a very important project that this government says necessary to undertake at this juncture in our economic history. Madam President, first of all, the HIA, the Euronora International Airport Redevelopment Project, is very important. It's a need. I say it's a need for the country for various reasons. The last time there's, in fact, the current HIA, the upgrade was actually done about 25 years ago. It was actually in 1993 when there was the last upgrade of the Euronora International Airport, 25 years. Now, Madam President, like any other infrastructure, any other building, 25 years is a lot of time for that building to endure. But more than that, Madam President, at the time when the HIA was upgraded 25 years ago in 1993, the number of visitors coming through the Euronora International Airport was just above 200,000 visitors. And today, Madam President, we have about close to, or above, rather, 400 visitors pass through the doors of the Euronora International Airport. 410,000, sorry, Madam President, visitors pass through the doors of Euronora International Airport. Now, for any of us who have actually been through, have passed through the Euronora International Airport, especially during the PC period, if you go there, Madam President, between the hours of, let's say, one o'clock to about four o'clock, you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. We have reached a capacity, the Euronora International Airport is in a capacity issue right now, a problem. We cannot grow, Madam President, our tourism product without undertaking the infrastructure that is currently, I would say, Madam President, hampering our development in the tourism sector. So, Madam President, we must undertake the congestion that we are currently facing at the Euronora International Airport. Madam President, not only that there is a capacity issue, but, Madam President, when you pass through the airport, either coming in or going out, you would find that those individuals leaving would cross those who are entering, and that is a major international standard breach. So, 25 years later, Madam President, we have to ensure that we meet the international standards as required by the industry. So, this new entity or the redeveloped entity will ensure, Madam President, that we take care of this very serious breach. Now, Madam President, I have heard many, many times before, especially in the lower house, of that the government comes here and borrow money, borrow money, borrow money. Well, first of all, we have to borrow money because we don't have the money. We don't have it. But what is more pressing, Madam President, is that you would hear, especially from the opposition, that we are increasing the debt of government. Madam President, yes and no. Let me explain why. As clearly stated in the resolution, that this is a guarantee. Now, Madam President, when you look at the debt stock of our country, you have that what we refer to as international debt of local and foreign debt. But we also have a section where we actually government guarantees debts on behalf of entities. So, it is not, it is part of the government's debt stock, but the responsibility of paying that debt lies with that entity the government guarantees the loan for. So, in this case here, Madam President, we are guaranteeing a loan of US $100 million on behalf of Slasper. On behalf of Slasper, yes, Madam President, our debt stock will increase by $100 million, but what is more important, Madam President, is the ability to pay. The ability to pay. So, borrowing is not an issue. It's the ability to pay that loan. And the responsibility, Madam President, of paying that $100 million is not the government of St. Lucia, but the St. Lucia Air and Sea Ports Authority. Now, the question is, the question is, Madam President, are there risks? Of course there'll be risks, Madam President, with any debt transaction, there'll be risk. But the important thing is, you have to ensure that you minimize your risk as much as possible. So, wow, how have we, Madam President, as a government minimize our risk in that guarantee? How have we? We have ensured, Madam President, that the loan will be paid or repaid by Slasper by allocating, Madam President, $35, $35 per visitor to our country to pay that loan. So, Slasper will have a source of financing, Madam President, which actually started in January of this year, when we increase the departure and the airport development tax up to $98 US per passenger. There's guaranteed, Madam President, very guaranteed. I mean, the risk, one can look at, okay, Madam President, might say, okay, would there be a decrease in the tourist arrival in St. Lucia? Madam President, we have seen that over the years, in fact, in the last two years, we have had record numbers of visitors to our shores. And because of the kind of the product we have in St. Lucia, Madam President, the increase in the airport departure tax or the airport development tax has not reduced the arrivals. In fact, you see an increase because of the product that we have, we have a product that is what we refer in economics as being very price inelastic. In other words, a change in the price and increase in the price will not affect the arrival numbers negatively. So the risk, as far as the loan payment is concerned, is very, very low. And the second reason, Madam President, that is the second reason I can see how we have to take in consideration is Slasper himself, Slasper. It was very, very sad, Madam President, when I sat right here and listening to the former prime minister, the member for parliament, trashing Slasper, trashing Slasper, pushing Slasper under the bus. I mean, Madam President, I mean, we have to be responsible as politicians, you know, especially when you are former prime minister, giving, speaking of Slasper as being not having creditworthiness. Madam President, when you look at the record of Slasper, the financial statement of Slasper, Madam President, it speaks differently. Slasper has won many awards over the years, many awards, not local, but regional awards, Madam President. So this government, Madam President, believes in the management of Slasper. And that's the reason why, Madam President, we believe that we have minimized the risk, both in providing the revenue source to finance the loan for Slasper and also in the management team of Slasper. Madam President, also, the question is, why did we go that route? Why did we go that route? Because, Madam President, you'll understand that there was a previous model as to how to finance this HIA. That is, give up the operations, complete surrender of our international airport to a foreign entity for 30 years, Madam President, 30 years. And the justification for that, Madam President, is that we will not be increasing our debt. Is this a justification for surrendering your national international airport to a foreign entity for 30 years? Is this a justifiable reason? Madam President, I was told, and I heard it right here, that even during the bidding process, there was a stack of individuals who submitted proposals. Because, Madam President, this was good. That's a big deal, big deal. But, Madam President, we believe that we have the human resource capacity in this country as proven by the management of Slasper to run our air and seaports. We will not surrender our, we will not surrender our airport to any foreign entity for 30 years. We will not. We will not. So, Madam President, the question is, why would one enter a PPP, a public-private partnership? Why would one do that? Let me tell you something, Madam President. In general, I'm speaking here, why would one enter a PPP? Let me tell you why, Madam President. One enters a partnership when he or she or a government takes stock of what he or she has. In other words, Madam President, you do what we refer to as a SWOT analysis. You check where your strengths are, where your weaknesses are, where your capabilities are, where your capacities are. Madam President, you take stock of yourself and you're saying that if I were to continue, if I were to develop, redevelop the airport in this instance, what do I need? What do I have? Madam President, this government realized that they have all what is required to redevelop the Reno International Airport. Everything. They have the human capacity and they have the capacity to raise the financing for the redevelopment of that airport. And we did. We developed the revenue source balance or the revenue stream for the redevelopment or the financing of this redevelopment. And of course, Madam President, we have the human resource capacity. So why do we have to go out there? Why, Madam President? Just to say that we will not increase our debt. Madam President, this is very to be very, very immature, very naive thinking. And very irresponsible, Madam President. As I said earlier, this is not a burden on the government. This guarantee is not a burden on the government. Madam President, you know, I was speaking with my colleagues in cabinet at one point in time, or during our caucus, Madam President. And I gave an analogy. And the analogy was, Madam President, you have a bus driver, a bus driver. The bus broke down. Maybe the four tires are not working. Or the four tires, you know, it needs four tires. And you have a guy coming to the driver, the bus owner. And saying to the owner, Madam President, that, Gaza, you don't have to borrow money to put four tires on that vehicle. That will increase your debt. And the guy said, Gaza, that's true. That's true. I would increase my debt. And the guy said, Gaza, I will go ahead and borrow that money for you, or borrow that money. And give me the minibus. Give me the minibus for five years. For five years. And I'm going to run a minibus for you. You know what, Madam President? I'm going to run a minibus for you. So what happened, Madam President? This guy who went to take the loan to put the four tires is now running the minibus, making money, and the guy who owns the vehicle makes nothing. That's exactly what would have happened to our HIA for 30 years, Madam President. 30 years. 30 years, Madam President. But this resolution speaks of 20 years. We have a five-year grace period, five-year grace period, Madam President, where we only pay the interest rate, which means, Madam President, which means, Madam President, we will have sufficient monies to collect within the five years during that grace period, which we can shorten the principal repayment period of the 15 years. Madam President, this is not rocket scientists. This is just being what? Responsible. If you go out of this model, away from this model, Madam President, you have been reckless and irresponsible. Madam President, talking about debt, we have taken upon ourselves, Madam President, we have taken upon ourselves as a government to very soon, Madam President, to pass a piece of legislation called the fiscal rule legislation, Madam President. It has passed through cabinet already, now it's in drafting stage, ensuring, Madam President, that we curtail our spending, we constrain ourselves, Madam President, as far as spending is concerned, through with this new piece of legislation that's coming very soon, Madam President. So we have government that is responsible as far as our debt control, our debt management is concerned. And Madam President, I have heard also, spoken about the, we're gonna increase our debt to GDP. Of course, of course, this has its role, debt to GDP. If you add a hundred million US dollars to our existing debt, our existing debt stock, our existing debt stock, Madam President, it'll be just a minuscule increase, a minuscule. And what I'm saying, Madam President, while that debt stock, while the debt to GDP will increase, what is more important is our debt to service ratio. This remains unchanged with this guarantee. In other words, Madam President, if you are paying, if we are paying, currently paying 24 cents out of every dollar that we receive into paying down our debt, it remains the same, it remains the same because it is not the government responsibility to pay that loan, it is slasper responsibility. So, Madam President, there is another reason why this project is important. It is not only to ensure that we increase the capacity, we deal with the congestion, but, Madam President, this is a very strategic project, very strategic, this project is in the south of the country, the south that has been neglected for such a long time, Madam President. And we believe it is a very strategic move by the government to ensure that we increase the economic activity of the south for the people of the south and for the people of this country. Madam President, an international airport with very little economic development around that economic development that's an international airport, Madam President. Very strategic, Madam President, we see the value, not just an airport redevelopment, but economic activity in the south of the country. Madam President, the new frontier is there. We are the brink of a new frontier in the south. And this redevelopment will kick off the commentsment of this new frontier. So, Madam President, the lower house did not vote, did not vote for this resolution. The opposition in the lower house, rather, Madam President, the opposition in the lower house, Madam President, I know it's Christmas time, I know my mind is a little more on the Christmas. But, Madam President, for such an important development in the south of the country, Madam President, I am not sure exactly what's wrong with the south when it comes to the opposition. There seems to have some, I don't want to use a word, that strong word, but a hit for the south. But here it is, Madam President, we are pouring money or guaranteeing monies for last part to redevelop the south of the here in the international airport, look at it in the south, and the opposition has rejected and has not approved voted against this resolution. Let me see, Madam President, if they would be the same in the Senate today. Oh my goodness, Madam President, redevelopment of the south, I mean the international airport in the south, Madam President, you've voted against that? And, Madam President, the worst thing about it, Madam, it's the, you have the MP, and from a prime minister, Madam President, and in the south you have three MPs in the opposition, three, you have view what's not, view what's not, and you have a lovely, Madam President, all three voted against the redevelopment of the here in the international airport. That's a travesty, Madam President, the people of the south, the people of the south, Madam President, voted these three MPs, Madam President, to represent them, and they have failed the people of St. Lucia, of the south when it comes to the voting for the redevelopment of the people of international airport. What is, Madam President, is this representation? Is this representation, Madam President? There are things that you oppose, there are things that you must support, and this is a project, Madam President, that should have been supported by the opposition when it was brought to the house two weeks ago. So, Madam President, so we are here, we are waiting with bitter breath to see, to see if the Senate opposite would vote for or against this resolution. Thank you, Madam President. Senators, in your submission, let us remain, let us not forget to keep the language parliamentary. Hate, we could find a better way to say, to say hate than hate. Senators, the question is that Parliament authorize the Minister for Finance to guarantee a loan in the amount of United States dollars 100 million from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan, by the St. Lucia Air and Seaports Authority for the purpose of financing the Hewanore International Airport Redevelopment Project. Be it further resolved that the loan is repairable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a five-year grace period. Be the interest is payable at a rate of six months, London Interbank offered a rate plus 1.5% per annum. C, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired. D, the interest shall be paid in the amount of US $2,195,000, semi-annually during the grace period and thereafter at the six-month London Interbank offered rate. E, the terms and conditions proposed by the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan are accepted. Senator Henry. Thank you very much, Madam President. May I grant you to also thank you for your, well, your greetings and wishing us, season greetings, so to speak, but also extend my voice and add to yours to wish everyone here the same, as well as the people in St. Lucia and those persons in the Castro South, my family and friends, my children, wish them well for the upcoming year. Madam President, just to meet me also to say to those young persons at this time who may want to contemplate resolving their problems in violent ways that it is time for them to, for us to consider other means of resolving problems as against a violent way and keeping our time at this time of the year peaceful. So I'm encouraging everyone, our young people, to be peaceful, let us use other means of solving our problems. Crime is not the way we should seek peaceful means of resolving our problems. Madam President, as I listen and I listen to the presentation by the leader of government business, I am not one who like to credit not just ties, but I've heard better in time past. And for a moment, I thought his presentation seemed more like what I would have heard in the market, not in the market step, but in the boulevard, the place where people do the politicking. Madam President, let me state for the record that the St. Lucia Labour Party support and initiated work on the redevelopment of the Euronora International Airport. It's important that we state this, very important. But I will proceed with my presentation lest I be distracted by you persons over here. At the debate of the lower house, Madam President, and I, and he alluded to it here, there's one statement that lingered with me is when a member indicated that it's all about cash flow. Once you can loan money, once you can pay, you should, you can borrow cash flow. And I heard it here again, making the justification for borrowing one hundred million US dollars. Depi usa pei unis gestifia pupuiti lahasala. Madam President, I would make this point here because it's a point, it's a point that needs to, that every St. Lucia, who probably contemplating building their home, buying a car, buying an equipment, investing their monies, they should understand that not everything or anything you can buy mean that you should own it. And not everything that you own means that you should operate it. Your ability to own something is not the same ability that is required to operate it. And I will speak to this a little, a little more as I proceed. Sa vledi lani mun yoni bako eksipai yoki ka upo wei. Om mun ka upo wei bai upaske, yomem pasak upo wei. Lani mun pithet kini hotel eksipai yoki ka kuii hotel lahat mun ka kuii. We all understand that borrowing becomes necessary at times. And one would expect a government to be responsible, judicious, with the business of borrowing, Madam President. Also, a government must be mature, mature enough upon taking office to continue with activities of a former administration, mature which is important. And I will explain why I'm making this point, Madam President. Responsibility, maturity, being cautious is important in governance as against irresponsibility, irresponsibility, childishness and recklessness. But what is this government? What has this government given up that was beneficial to the people of St. Lucia that we speak of? What exactly it is? Madam President, as the member on the side well described, it was the public-partner partnership, a PPP, arrangement for the Euronora International Airport. It was negotiated through the IFC with the World Bank. But what exactly is a PPP? What exactly is a public-private partnership? What exactly is this, Madam President? But more importantly, while St. Lucia's may have heard the term PPP all over the past through the debate, and I think it has been mentioned over and over in this house, last week the term PPP was featured in the original news. Barberas is moving. Well, I thought instead of postulating about the former prime minister and all of the, you would have enlightened, you would have enlightened, you would have enlightened St. Lucia's and make a case about the development of Euronora International Airport. So I'm forcing you now to discuss it, whereas you had an opportunity to come. That's all I'll do over here, you know, is to rebut, but you do not have a prepared presentation on the Euronora International Airport. So I just want you to rebut. All of you, that's what you'll do, rebut. But let me go on. Let me stay focused. Let me stay focused. So Madam President, and for most of us in St. Lucia, you know, Barberas seemed to be a very good model at times. And of course, I know St. Lucia like to reference Barberas. They like to reference other countries. But I will speak more, there's more countries than Barberas who have embarked on PPPs. More. And I'll tell you, the approach that you are suggesting is the one that Trinidad did with the Piaco Airport. There lies the $1.6 billion, $11.7 billion investigation into the Piaco corrupt practice of the airport. But let's wait. Madam President, why a PPP? And this is what according to Dr. Anthony Mona and Douglas Lamp, professionals from the United Kingdom, highlighted, a PPP allows for the delivery of services to be transferred from the responsibility of the public sector to private operators over a specified contract life. It has at its core the need of public sector accountability with private sector discipline, expertise and efficiency. The traditional approach, Madam President. Madam President, and I'll beg your indulgence so that I can continue to make my presentation. Senator Henry, I need to hear Senator Henry's contribution. Can we please keep it below the radar? Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, governments in the past have been using what they call the FBMO approach. Simple, they finance, they build, they maintain, they operate. They finance, they seek the money, they build it, they maintain it and they operate it. Dr. Mona and Douglas Lamp, through a thorough and years of analysis in the United Kingdom, have put all of these functions into perspective and analyzed them and value to what extent is the public sector having success along those lines. And Madam President, Dr. Mona and Lamp highlighted a few significant projects in their research. They highlighted Wood Hill Prison. It went three months late. The public sector in the United Kingdom was doing it. Three months late, 40% above budget. The Trident submarine ship lift on both fast lane in Scotland. It went for two years plus, but 214% increase. The Humber Bridge. The Humber Bridge went up by 55% increase. The National Air Traffic Control. Madam President, one of order here. The member is reading from a document and we don't have a copy of it. Could you make it a copy of the document in the House, please? I'll proceed, Madam President. Senator Henry, if you're going to rely substantially on the document, you need to make it a document of the House. If it's a passing of fleeting reference, that's a different case. Would you let me know which one is going to be? Thank you, Madam. I'm not reading from it. It's just a passing reference to some information that I think is important. And afterwards I can always, Madam President, just leave the entire textbook here. Public finance and the guide to value and risk management in PPP projects. Senator Henry, that's not how we do it. We don't leave an entire text. We make it a document of the House if you want to do that and it's copied and distributed to all members. Madam, if you want to adjourn, I can't comment. Are you saying it's not a substantial part of you? It's not a substantial part. Please proceed. Thank you, Madam President. So, Madam President, I've highlighted a number of significant projects in the United Kingdom, highlighted by Dr. Douglas Slum and Dr. Muna, in stating why that led growth to public private partnerships. And, Madam President, in 2000, it became a worldwide approach and there were PPPs in Denmark, Canada, Finland, France, Indonesia, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, the United States, in Trinidad and in Barbados. PPP became a worldwide approach in procurement. Worldwide approach. Please continue, Senator Henry. Thank you, Madam President. So, Madam President, highlighting these issues, you would understand from just a technological analysis of the procurement of government business, of the procurement of government services, why one would opt for a PPP, a PPP that would link at its core the discipline of the private sector, the expertise of the private sector, and efficiencies of the private sector into the need for accountability in the public sector. The traditional approach of doing these things have led to what we currently deal with on St. Jude and a number of public sector projects. Of course, you understand. Of course, if you want to mention, there are some projects that you need to implement as a public sector, but there are risks associated with the public sector implementing projects. There are risks, and you have not highlighted that a risk analysis was conducted. You only spoke of a mention of financial risk, but there's not to it. There's not to it. So, what is at its core, Madam President, is that the Labour Party advanced a safe, a safe approach in dealing with Euronora International Airport. We do not have the expertise in-house to design the airport. We do not have the expertise to design the airport. So, we're looking for persons. This is what you said. This is what you've done, because in the lower house, I heard it is the same, but I heard the Prime Minister made pronouncement about building the terminal on the other side on the western side. Madam President, some of the pronouncement I heard as a technical person, I was concerned, because during the Christmas trough, my vehicle was parked in the parking lot and it got flooded with silt way up at the seat level. And I'm saying that anybody who is going to undertake development of the Euronora International Airport at this time must consider quite a bit. And I would have expected, I would have anticipated that listening to the debate at the lower house and at this side of the government side would come with information to share with the public as to what other considerations for the direction that they're taking. But like he said, it's Christmas. Like he said, it's Christmas. And because it's Christmas, it's an opportune time to speak in French. He speaks in French. He speaks in French. He speaks in French. He speaks Italian. He speaks French. He speaks French. He confessed in French. Welcome to the night. This is what it is. So people are in a state of drunkenness, that's what you believe. And you could come to this or Lucky even the horrible house and just late, hurricanes and earthquakes. When you think of we in the next few years with climate change owning or not having an opportunity to get somebody to operate the airport in that period. Insurance, yes. Do you consider the risk? Do you consider, do you consider all of the risk associated currently even with LIBOR? You suggest it's going to be 1.2%. What about the other needs that we have in this country that are not being served? Would you as a prime minister choose to own your airport and rent a hospital? Would you prefer to privatize your hospital and not your airport? Because we cannot proceed with the hospital. There was talk about privatization of the hospital but you are inflamed and talking about we would give our airport for 40 years, give away the airport for 40 years. But you are misrepresenting your true emotions because you are prepared to privatize your hospital. So there's something fake about this side. How in one way you feel comfortable arguing about privatization of the hospital but you're so emotional about giving away an airport for a PPP. What? Oh, PPP. What are you doing? PPP? I don't think you understand the piece. I do not think so. I do not think so. But we ask had there been maturity or one would expect that there is maturity on this side. There would be able to continue with an initiative that has benefits for the people. Of course, hospitals and airports and major roads and dumps will always be projects that will be implemented through subsequent administrations, Madam President. I don't care how much we boast about how much the people will love us. There are things that you would start but you would not complete. And there are things the Labour Party will start but they will not complete. Somebody else at another administration would have to complete it. And this is a reality about even our homes, Madam President. We build home, we start homes and our children sometimes need to inherit and complete it. Because these things like the members said that 25 years is a long time for a building, an airport, 25 years. Madam President, the lifetime of buildings in the United Kingdom are hundreds and hundreds of years but the member of government business is 25 years as a very long time. It is 25 years ago they did work on the airport so it's time now. And the people of the south, the people of the south, stop betting the people of the south. If you are concerned about the people of the south, you would have completed the hospital in the south. If you were concerned about the people of the south, they would not have been in the stadium. That is what, don't play politics with serious issues. You are coming to borrow at this point in time and the fact that you believe in the growth that is pronounced meant you believe that once there's growth, borrowing is okay. That is what you believe. Also, you have been advised. You should tell the people that. You don't believe what you're saying. You don't believe what you're saying. You understand. You understand. But I'm telling you, Madam President, to focus on the development of the Euronora International Airport and similar type projects. If you read address your remarks to me as you should, you will not get sidetracked. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm pointing to the other side. Thank you, Madam President. I am not here to be sidetracked, but, of course, that's what they came here to do, so I will ignore them. But, Madam President, similar type projects, Euronora International Airport, if we talk about major, major capital projects that require large sums of money, the traditional approach is not how the world is moving. We do not have the capacity to raise such finance. Some of them, the expertise and the efficiencies are not there. The private sector is where we must go. We must look for the concessionaires. You understand. And therefore, the PPP, the public-private partnership, it's not something that came up because somebody was just thinking of something wishy-washy. That's not how that came about. The World Bank advised a number of countries with challenges to take that approach in the procurement of certain services. Madam President, in this country, there is a lot of work that we have to do. In the hospital, we have to go to the hospital. We have to go to the hospital. If the government comes here and says that we have to go to the hospital, then there is no problem at all. Because we have to go to the hospital, Madam President. We have to go to the hospital. Madam President. Madam President ? So it's important, Madam President, that in considering capital projects of that magnitude, we need to be innovative. And some of the things that this approach brings home, and one of the issues we have in most borrowing member countries, the issue of cost overruns, cost overruns in borrowing member countries. And I speak as a quantity surveyor, Madam President. And I will tell you, Madam President, inherent and as cited by Dr. Mona in the United Kingdom and the many projects that are highlighted there, that exceeded its budget estimate by hundreds of, 100% or more. The UK studied and they said, look here, there's some procurement approach where cost determines your price. Cost determines your price. So you go to buy, you go and buy something like a soft drink, Madam President, that's for example, to make it simple, and you ask the person how much for the soft drink. And the person start to detail to you all of the processes, and then they said, oh well this month I had a breakdown on my generator and therefore the cost of the soft drink has been more. So therefore your price is based on the cost. And in our traditional procurement approach, Madam President, when the contractor signs under the various forms of contract, there are clauses for fluctuation and variations because that risk, that risk is really transferred to the employer, not the contractor. There are very few standard forms of agreements where the risk is totally borne by the contractor. Under the AIA, the American Institute of Architects have a standard form of contract, but it is expensive when they sign those contracts. Most of our contracts, Madam President, makes provision for fluctuation and variations that the contractor has provision when you change your mind and certain things increases, it charges you. You understand? Fixed price contracts do have provisions for fluctuations and variations, Madam President, because in fixed price contract, if you state that the price of cement is $12 a bag, and you can show that it went up by $15 and you use 500 bags, you need to charge the employer at $2 more for the 500 bags. Look at your contracts well. In PPPs, Madam President, your price determines your cost. So then, in that arrangement, when the price is given to you, the concessioner wants back because he needs to carry the project and land it at that price and not the reverse. So in risk analysis, Madam President, you are guaranteed to pay the amount that you pay upfront at the end. In this approach, there's risk involved in paying more based on the form of contract. Madam President, if in our procurement analysis, we take all of these things into consideration, we will not play the politics of saying, oh, they're trying to give the airport away for 40 years. Nobody can go away with the airport. You cannot go away with the airport. You cannot go away with the airport. You understand? The airport. What is important is that the concessioner, not just operating the airport, but the concessioner is using the capacity to pay and also to bring revenue in for the government. If a storm hits and the airport cannot operate, the concessioner still bears that risk. If a trove comes and you cannot use the airport, the concessioner is responsible. Madam President, I did some, was fortunate to do some lost adjusting, Madam President, after Hurricane Maria. And don't shout loud about insurance because 2% deductible on the amount insured is significant. So if you have an airport and it is valued at 100 million US dollars and you have damage and deduct 2%, it means you need to have the 2% sitting there on the bank account to match the cost of damage. And if your damage is not more than the 2% of deductible, you get nothing similar to excess when the damage on your car, my brother, and the excess is equivalent, but you get nothing. And that is why, Madam President, the point I made earlier on, to be resilient in this economic hard time, we need to know what we should own and what we should not. And I shared that with the member. Some of us, our homes are too big and it's under insured and if it's adequately insured, the deductible is too much. We do not have that on our bank accounts. You understand? The government in designing a strong economy must decide what the private sector can do best and what we can do. Mr. Henry, you have 15 more minutes. I have 15 more minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Privatize your homes? Yes, it might. Well, privatization of your home is a good idea too. You could rent. That means you're renting somebody else's home. It's not yours. But the importance is not owning a home as much as having shelter guaranteed. You understand? I'm not making the point. I'm saying that sometimes it makes no sense because you can take the loan that you build a house, five-story residential with six bedrooms and all of this sort of thing, all the expensive tiles, your porcelain tiles and your marble tiles, your jacuzzi, and when the hurricane hit on it, damage, you do not have money to repay it. So we need to be wise as we embark in making capital decisions. It should not be selfishness. And that is written in the prayer. That's always ... Madam President, there need to be a way to have this prayer. I need to have a copy, you know? I don't know why I can't get one. Every time the prayer is read, I reflect on the words. It tells me we need to put away selfish motives and selfish agendas because we need to do for the better of our people. I think the PPP was a better way to proceed with the airport. I say this with sincerity of heart and not out of political motives and not supporting a side. I'm saying the PPP was less riskier for solutions. I am saying, yes, I'm expressing a professional opinion. I think it was better for us. I also think there are other things that we need to borrow money for. And if we rank priorities as to what we should borrow for and what we should not borrow for, but this is an indictment against this government who said that they would not be borrowing. Revenue stream, a goodness man. So Madam President, we are here today to borrow. We are here to put this country through more debt and unlike the explanation the member tried to share with us about it is slasper, you know, the resolution reads the government is liable and is the debt charge and all debt charges for the government is liable and shall be charged on and paid out of the consolidated fund. You know where is the consolidated fund? That's the people's money, that's the treasury, that's where it's been paid. You see one of the things, you know, it's easy to come here and try to say this thing in a way that you could sugarcoat it. It sounds nice on the airs and then as some of you would say it's Christmas time as Shai Moon Pa meh meh leh, government capwete lahat, you're capwete, you're capwete, that it needs to be paid back, our children need to pay it. They need to pay it. And I'm saying, I slasper, slasper this resolution as far as I'm concerned. Goodbye to Chair O'Law and I'm saying that yes, you have the statutory organizations to run and implement services, but they are inherently government. One point of order, Madam President, I believe that the member is misleading the house in saying that the debt will be paid straight from the consolidated fund. It is only if the government, the slasper defaults on the loan that we look at that option. But it is not to say that the debt is going to be paid straight forward out of the consolidated fund. Senator Henry, on my reading of it, I think the interpretation by the Honourable Minister for Health and Wellness is correct. Please proceed. Madam President, Madam President, for further clarity on this, I rise in the front of order, Madam President. Madam President, the resolution, Madam President, Madam President, Madam President, can I proceed with my time? Madam President, it's a point of elucidation. Just for clarity, Madam President, because the resolution reads clearly, it reads clearly, Madam President, that it is not the bank, it is not the government that is actually taking the loan, it is the slasper taking the loan, Madam President, and the government is guaranteeing the loan. So the slasper is the one responsible for the loan. But in the event that the government, the slasper defaults on the loan, then the government comes in. So it's a guarantee. I'm not giving away, Madam President. I'm not giving away. Senator Henry, you sat. And that's how you did. But if it is a point of elucidation, I don't have to rule. You just don't yield. And you yielded by sitting. Thank you, Madam President. So please proceed. Thank you, Madam President. I certainly deserve to bring your gift here. No, no, no. Madam President has been extremely well to this house, extremely, extremely. No, no, not personally. She has guided this house well. Thank you, Madam President. Yeah, but Madam President, in closing, in closing, and I'll bring this, I'll bring this to its logical conclusion. One, there was no need for us to retread a process that was already in place negotiated at the level of the IFC and the World Bank for a PPP conventional current approach in financing large capital projects that would negate the government from going to borrow. There was no need. Secondly, there are areas that critically need to be addressed, social areas, our hospitals, and it's an indictment of this government that the south of this island, for all the crying, have not seen it necessary to provide a better condition to treat sick people in the south of the island. They have spent more money seeing about horses. And finally, Madam President, finally, this side of this house, like the opposition in the lower house, will not support this resolution to borrow a hundred million dollars when they found a PPP in place that could have done the same. And Madam President, just let me make this last point and I'll sit. Madam President, this approach, the hundred million US dollars from what I notice is inadequate to complete the hospital, the airport, sorry. The hundred million US dollars is not adequate to complete the airport. It's not. It will take a lot more money to complete this intervention. They have not provided the total cost of the development. What you have in the making is another standard. This is another standard. Because if you're going to borrow 100 million US dollars and if you'll not complete the project just to start it, this is what was said in the lower house. This is what was said. There is an idea that the five years grace will allow them to collect money to do the other parts that this hundred million US dollars is not covering. This is what was said. You're not ready. Madam President, this is very, very critical to all of this borrowing that the money's it's will not complete the project. They are only starting something and they expecting to complete it some other means. Madam President, this is madness, sorry for the word madness, I cannot choose it, but this is insane. Madam President, if the word is not appropriate and this is recklessness. This is not professional. This is immaturity. And I think that this government, this side of the house should be held accountable for this type of borrowing that would not seek completion to the Euronora International Airport. Senator Mangal. Thank you very much. Madam President, Madam President, we are in the Christmas season and the festive season and I would like to take this opportunity to wish yourself, my colleague Senators, Senators on the opposite side, independent Senators and all Saint Lucians a Merry Christmas and of course a very prosperous 2019. And Madam President, I am smiling when I said a prosperous 2019 because I do believe with the plan of this government that indeed Saint Lucia will start to transform itself in becoming a prosperous place for its citizens and also for even our visitors who visit our shores. And I sat and I listened to both the presentation by the leader of government business and also I sat and I listened to the presentation by the member, the leader of the opposition business and I must say it is in the history of this Senate that I think that for a moment we probably were listening to two members of government business making a contribution because for the amount of times that I witnessed that the government side are plodding to the leader of the opposition business while his fellow colleagues stayed very quiet and amazed at what was involved in that presentation. I certainly thought for a while whether we had a case of an assos being played in this honorable Senate. Madam President, it is what we are debating about here today, an airport. An airport that I believe both sides have agreed is essential and is needed. We have no arguments there. Both opposition and the government side agree that we need to redevelop the Euronora International Airport. And why we agree is because we realize what is there is inadequate. What is there cannot meet the demand for our future in terms of arrivals in this country, in terms of the number of visitors coming in and in terms of the number of jets landing in view for. And it was just on Saturday, Madam President, that I had reason to visit the Euronora International Airport. And for the very short period of time that I was present at the airport, I witnessed all six parking aprons occupied by jets, two other jets sitting on the tarmac, and one landing making it a total of nine jets on at the airport at that very point in time. So I could very well imagine, Madam President, what is happening with our arrivals area. Sometimes I have understood that even our passengers having to bear going through the sun immediately after leaving an air conditioned jet, modern jet, having to go through the sun to get into the arrival section, not having a jet bridge. Sometimes after we even stand on the outside because there is not enough space within the terminal building to take everybody in arrivals. And I would believe that this is what happens when we go beyond this kind of capacity. So it is definitely needed that we have the airport redeveloped. But we have different approaches. That is where we differ. We on the government side started a process back in 2008 where we increased the airport departure and arrival tax and started the process of collecting funds towards the redevelopment of HIA. So there was a process and this is why I said it looked like we had a source in the house today because Senator Henry indicated that why don't you continue a process? Why must the government change a process that is already in place? Why not continue that process? So I would say to him, but your government in 2011 found a process in place and why it did not continue that process? Why didn't it continue that process? So why now you must say that the UWP administration is the one not continuing a process of the Labour Party being a PPP where it is basically in its infancy stage, Madam President. But you see the record is there. The record is there. It is not just the Huronora International Airport. They had five years, they made a plan in place and they had five years for the development of the Huronora International Airport. They did not lay down a brick, Madam President, not a brick and that is the same thing. It is synonymous. St. Jude's Hospital is in a classical case, just the same at the Huronora International Airport. Five years and they could not have completed it and you want to know Madam President why they are afraid of this process and why they prefer a PPP? You know why they prefer a PPP? It's because of the dismal record in the St. Jude's Hospital project. Because of that, a project which was supposed to cost much less. Much less, $25 million. Right? They now took it to over $100 million, Madam President, and they cannot finish the St. Jude's Hospital. So they are now running scared, they are running scared. So I can't handle big projects. So let me pass it on to foreigners to do for me. Let me pass it on to a foreigner to do for me with the Huronora International Airport. Because if these guys had any wolf and any substance in them, Madam President, they would have realized that come 2011 when they formed the government in this country that they had already collected on the books approximately $54 million towards the development of the Huronora International Airport. $54 million, Madam President. Where is that money today? Where is that money today? When the UWP came back into power, there was not a cent left for this. It's not a point of order, Madam President. I think you said the tool earlier when you corrected or you called upon one of the leaders of government business to use parliamentary language. And I note that my colleague has just stated, these guys, if they had any use, some of these sounds a little bit, and these guys, referring to, I suppose, members of the previous government, I think the same can be said, but I think the language can be improved. Senator Henry, Senator Mangals, my apologies, yes, let us keep the language correct. Thank you very much. And most of all, we must refer to our colleagues in the correct terminology, certainly not guys. Thank you very much, Madam President, and my apologies, Opposite Senator, if I did use that language, I certainly withdraw it, okay, I would like to stick to parliamentary procedure. Yes, you could be a bit hyped with the extra club, fine. So Madam President, if you permit me to go on. So there was $54 million approximately in the kitty. That was there for the development of the Huranura International Airport when the Labour Party formed the government in 2011. Where is that money today? When we came back into office, we found nothing, nothing. So you have such an interest in the development of Huranura International Airport. But you have utilized those funds allocated for the Huranura International Airport development to another purpose, which you have never even declared. That is it. And furthermore, furthermore, you are in control. The Prime Minister of that country then was the Member of Parliament for Euphot South and two others, Labry and also Euphot North, but yet still a project which is so crucial to the development of the South that will create employment in the South and also that will improve on our facility of arrivals and departures in this country. You've taken this money and done something else with it. That's all I could say. But let us look at what could have happened in the five years that they were in office. Had they collected, continued with that tax, Madam President, they would have collected approximately $25 to $30 million annually. That would have equated to an additional $150 million in those five years, $54 and $150 million, Madam President. Over $200 million would have already been collected for the development of this Huranura International Airport and would have been well advanced, well advanced. But this government now would have to start again, again, would have to start again and put in this tax again. And so the naysayers said, oh, we do not support this tax because it means that it's going to make our tourism product more expensive. The destination will become more expensive. Traveling to St. Lucia will become more expensive. And so we do not support it. They do not support it. But who are the ones paying those tax? The majority of persons paying that tax, Madam President, are foreigners, tourists coming into St. Lucia. And the people of St. Lucia who are paying those tax, people like myself who may be traveling on business are well willing to pay this tax. And we are capable of paying this tax, especially for the development of our country. But let us look at what has happened since the re-implementation of that tax by this government. Have we seen a drop in arrivals in St. Lucia? Have we seen tourists deciding that they are going elsewhere because of an airport tax in St. Lucia? No, Madam President. We have seen an increase in tourism arrivals in this country. This is what we have seen. So there is even a compounded factor where we could have been collecting more than the $25 million and $30 million from back then. And probably at that stage, we would have had all of the funds available for the development of the Huronora International Airport. And why was that tax removed? Why was that tax removed? I can remember back then that the prime minister and the member for Vuefort South stating that we do not have a block laid on the airport. We do not have a block laid, not a single block laid in the construction of that airport. So why are we collecting money for something that is not being done? But Madam President, look at the hypocrisy involved in that. This tax, this tax was a tax place for the development of the airport. Something that would have been mostly financed by foreigners coming in and paying that tax, yet still we decide to give them a reprieve and simply say it is because we have not placed a single block on the ground, we are not going to have them pay that tax. So that tax was stopped, but at the same time, at the same time, I remember, I'm saying so, and I remember a popular California, Madam President, making a particular statement about a Kenyan and an Antoni situation. While we, while we remove that tax, we go about and place a similar tax on the people of this country, the very persons of this country, for the desilting of the wasps of the, of the term in ancillary countries. And this tax we are paying up to today, we have that tax on our wasco bills, where we have to pay a desilting tax. Was there any desilting happening when that tax was paid? There were no desilting. So while we take it out on persons on the outside, we putting it on our very people in this country, that they should be paying those tax, Madam President. You understand? Plus VAT, etc. So Madam President, we should have been way forward in the development of this airport. We should have proceeded and we should have been doing very well. So I understand their reluctance and I saw the contradiction being done with the leader of the opposition business. One time he seems to be in support of PPP and for the other case, he's not in support of PPP. So he's in support of PPP for the airport but he's not in support of PPP for the hospital. He's in support of PPP for something else, he's not in support of PPP for this arrangement. Madam President, why? Where are we going? Where are we going with such arrangements? Madam President, where? But you see this is the fear and this is this is the fear that they have on the other side but this is the vision of this government, Madam President. This is the vision of this government. This is the vision of this side that we have developed a master plan for the development of this country and in this master plan we have looked at all aspects. We have looked at all aspects of development, all aspects of development. So we've realized, Madam President, that we cannot be only increasing on our tourist plans, on our number of hotels while having an airport that is not in the proper condition for its development. You see, Madam President, we're talking about home porting and we're talking about a mega cruise ship terminal in the south of the island. This is what they're afraid of, Madam President. This is what they're afraid of. So while we a mega cruise port terminal in Viewfort and we'll be having home porting in Viewfort, that will significantly increase the number of arrivals in this country and because of the increase in these arrivals, it will therefore make the collection of that tax a lot more annually. So this is why this process will be compounded and compounded. We will be making more monies than that 40 million dollars annually, Madam President. And as we make those funds, we will then be able to pay or we'll be able to honor its debts. And we heard that this is what it is. So the government would only be indebted only if Slasper cannot pay its debts. That is all it is. And what is the record of Slasper? What is the record of Sarsper in paying its debt? Slasper is one of the most successful run statutory organization in this country. Slasper, another one is Lucilleck. And Madam President, you know what happens when Lucilleck has shares? Everybody wants to buy. Everybody wants to buy. I'm longing for the day maybe when Slasper will have to sell shares as well. I personally would quickly buy shares from Slasper, but Slasper is run so efficiently and Slasper is profitable enough that it does not need shares from anyone, Madam President. Maybe Slasper even had the option, even had the option instead of taking a loan from the Ex-Im Bank, could have simply come and say, let me put the option of shares on the table as well and we could purchase as well, Madam President. So this is the organization we are talking about. But let us look at the numbers. Let us look at the numbers. You wanted in your arrangements to give a foreign entity the control of this airport for 40 years. 40 years, even at the best figure of about collection of about $40 million would have seen almost $1 billion in revenue over that 40 years. Whereas the loan amount would have been less than what? $400,000? $400,000. So you're giving a foreign entity the control of your airport, the management of your airport. You have no say in what is going to happen. When you bring in these additional arrivals into St. Lucia with your home porting, etc., that amount would substantially increase. So if we talk about $1.5 billion, what would be the profit margin that this foreign entity is going to make? What would be that profit margin? What more could these do for the people of St. Lucia and for Slasper? What more would that money be able to do for them, Madam President? A lot more for this country. And at the same time, we are putting aside, we are putting aside, we are letting go, control of one of our most important assets for a period of 30 years. A strategic asset. I know that there are other assets that are essential services, Madam President, but a lot of the times, we heard about the PPP arrangement, and I am a proponent of PPP arrangements as well. You will hear me speak next about NHC and public partnership arrangements. But Madam President, you have to look carefully at what are the pros and cons of each arrangement and what are the benefits. Why should you give up something that is already profitable to you, to another entity in most public private sector arrangements, whether it be in an existing situation, an existing project, like in the case of the airport, or whether it be in a new project, most of the time, these are borderline projects, or these are borderline entities where the government or the entity is not really recognizing the profit. And so they are looking forward for the assistance. So that person coming in to take in that risk must not only come with just their finance and say, okay, I'm getting something that has been made up for me, and I'm simply going to come in and make money on it. This person must come with its own strategic plan, how to go about making the additional revenue, making the additional revenue, not just giving you, not just giving you a case, not just giving you a case, Madam President, where here it is, I am already profitable. This is a profitable venture. I'm just giving it to you. So go ahead and rip the benefits from it, Madam President. So we need to be very careful, but I very well understand. I very well understand the fears of the opposition. I understand the fears of the opposition, because Vufot South, Vufot North, and Labry Saltibus is very crucial. It's very crucial. Yes, we want it. Yes, we want it. And we come in to take it. We'll come to take it too. You understand? The people of these areas must understand what is happening. It appears that this opposition, Madam President, is opposing for opposing's sake, everything that this government wants to do for the people of the south of this country. And we have to ask ourselves, why? Why? Are we simply paying politics for politics, say? We have to. If the opposition comes up with something that is brilliant and is in the interest of the people of this country, whether it be in a constituency of a member in government, I will support it. But the fact is, I have not seen that happen in the past, Madam President. And I remain very pessimistic that this can ever happen by those people on the opposition side. So that is why I can challenge them with this, Madam President. Come with a plan just like this government. Come with a plan. Come with a plan for the development. Don't simply come with proposals and ideas and sit in government for five years and do nothing about it. But this government is not simply going on paper and say, we guarantee in a loan for Slasper. There is a plan. And the leader of the opposition business said, are you simply just borrowing money all over the place? And you don't even know that it's not targeted. You don't even know what you're doing with the money. As a quantity surveyor, he should know a lot better. He should know that there is a plan. There is a plan that has been developed for the Hironora International Airport. And that those funds are allocated directly to the plan. There's cost estimates that have been derived for the financing of this airport. And that is where I alone know it, but you should find out. You should find out. So this is what it is. This is what it is, Madam President. This is what it is. This government. This government will transform the south of this island. Hironora International Airport will happen. The expansion will happen. We need to ensure. I mean, I traveled recently to a small place like Grenada. And when I compared Grenada's airport terminal to what is ours, when I compare what is happening in Antigua to what is ours, we rarely, I mean, we rarely, for a country in the OECS, that is the leading economy in the OECS, the largest economy in the OECS, we have Antigua and Grenada airport terminal buildings being a lot better than what is happening in St. Lucia, Madam President. Had the UWP government remaining power between 2011 and 2016, Madam President, and the collection of the airport development tax, I am certain that the airport would have commenced and probably today would have been close to a point of completion if not already completed. So this is what you need to take into your pipe and smoke. Why have you been in government for five years and you come up with a PPP? You come up with a proposal, but where have you taken it to? Where have you taken it to? So if you're afraid of handling large projects, if you're afraid of handling large projects because of your record in St. Jude's, because of your record in West Coast Road, in RDP 1213, I understand, in Rochamel, etc., compare that to the record of this UWP government. How many projects have we had going into this massive form of cost overruns? So I remain confident, Madam President, with the record of Slasper, with the record of this government and with the fact that the airport development project is essential to our country, that this government is on the right track and I fully support the development of this project, I thank you. Senator Mauricio Thomas, Francis. Thank you very much, Madam President. Season's greetings to you, to fellow members, to the staff of parliament who are present and members of the media, as well as citizens in our lunch. Christmas is a very hearty season for me. I just love that season and hence, Madam President, I had to wear a color that exhibits the spirit of Christmas in the house today. I do propose, Madam President, that at the end of today's session, you afford us an opportunity such that we can extend greetings in a more profound manner, Madam President. Thank you. Madam President, the motion before us requires that we support for debate an expenditure of 270 million P.C. dollars for the redevelopment of Runway International Airport. The figure of 270 million dollars for my memory serves me right, Madam President, is the single largest capital expenditure that we will be undertaking in the history of this country. A while ago, Senator Mangal said that he understands the concerns shared by Senator Henry. I hope that he will share equally my concerns, or I am looking forward to some explanation as to some questions and concerns that I will express here today. Suffice it to say, my pair too, my pair, 270 million, my pair, and at the end of the session, my hope, my pair, because I'm expecting explanations. Madam President, this is not just the single largest capital expenditure that we are undertaking as a country. In the recent past, we have met in this honorable house to debate several motions which require the government to borrow, either for recurrent expenditure or capital expenditure. And if my math serves me well, we have borrowed an unprecedented amount of close to a billion dollars. I have stood in this honorable house and I have spoken about my own concerns about the increase in the debt stock, bearing in mind all the questions that we've received from the IMF. And I think at the last sitting I did mention, and I spoke about that in a more granular fashion, so today I'm not going to go over and give details where that is concerned. I think all honorable members here understand my concerns because I have shared them. Madam President, as an ex-banker, I am aware that the critical considerations that every bank views in making lending decisions, whether we're talking about a personal sector to a corporate entity or to sovereign our character, repayment capacity, capital or injection or contribution, collateral or other considerations as it relates to the environment. Madam President, in terms of character, I have no issue because the government of St. Lucia has never defaulted in the past. And one can safely say that based on that track record, government has been able to attract loans from friendly governments and from the local banking sector. So there's no issue there, Madam President. Madam President, my concerns are, however, the debt service structure that has been presented to us. I need to ask questions around the collateral. When I say collateral, collateral is a form of insurance such that if there's default on the debt, we need to know of course what's there for that bank to fall back on and how it's going to impact us as a country. The conditions, like I said earlier, there are certain conditions that I think I need to highlight. And of course, after highlighting, I can expect some kind of explanation because that would deal with some of the elements of risk that we must mitigate as it relates to the external environment. And of course, capital in terms of the amount that is being proposed, the value of the investment, if you like. Madam President, my concern here is less about the approach to be used, whether PPP or direct. That's not my concern here. So I'm not going to debate as to whether PPP is a better approach or whether direct borrowing is a better approach. However, I need to understand from a capital or investment perspective, what is the real cost of the project to the country? I don't think I have understood that adequately. We are told that we are borrowing 100 million US, $270 million. But what is actually the total cost of the project? From my understanding as well, and I stand corrected, Madam President, the existing terminal will be demolished so that we can accommodate a new terminal and a new airport. So for me, in that scenario where essentially, well, I'm not sure. So I have not heard differently. So I need some explanation there. I am saying if it is we are going to be demolishing the existing structure, then there's an opportunity cost there. And what is opportunity cost from an economic perspective? It is what benefit that you are giving up in choosing one alternative over the other. So if we are going to give up what we already have to build a new one, what is the cost of eliminating or demolishing what we already have? So I will expect an explanation on that. Because in actual fact, the true cost of the project to St. Lucia would be the cost of what we are demolishing, plus what we need to invest in that new endeavor. So I'm expecting some kind of explanation. Madam President, what are the plans? I think to this date, to this day rather, we do not know what the exact plans are. And I think it is only fair that if we are being asked to support a bill to borrow as much as $270 million to erect or construct or upgrade an existing facility, bearing in mind the quantum, I think it would have been useful if we told the citizens of this country what exactly are the plans? What are we building? You know, what exactly are we building? Do we have an artist's impression of what we are going to do? Do we have a model? I seem to recall back in 25 years ago when the airport was being upgraded, there was a ceremony and there was a model where persons were invited. And I was part of that audience. I was the manager of Barclays Bank in Driford. Back then I was invited to sit down to see the model, give feedback on what was going to be done to upgrade that airport. And I thought that sort of public sensitization, that sort of public engagement, was very, very important. And I think it's even more relevant given the amount and the extent of the development that we are now talking about. Madam President, and my next question dovetails into the comment that I just made. What were the considerations in determining the extent or the size of the investment that we are undertaking? What did we consider in arriving at that? Would cheaper but effective options consider? Madam President, I share the concerns expressed as it relates to the capacity constraints at the airport. I travel pretty frequently and I can tell you I have experienced a congestion on numerous occasions. I have experienced getting drenched, walking from the plane into the arrival lounge and feeling sorry for a number of visitors and citizens who got wet and standing on a queue that's congested trying to get to their destination, their final destination and thinking that, hey, it's about time we do something about that. But I am thinking there are several ways to achieve an outcome. What other options did we consider? Did we consider a cheaper option and at the same time achieving the objective that is to provide more comfort and build the capacity at the airport? After all, Madam President, when we talk about investing $270 million plus whatever else might be the cost because we don't know the full extent, we have to consider that as a small country with limited resources there are other priorities that we have to attend to. What comes to mind if even developing the airport and listening to the contribution of Senator Mangal and the leader of government business, we are trying to attract more traffic at the airport and that is the plan. I believe in tandem with that should be an assessment and an investment in our road network. How are you going to get the visitors from the North into your lower airport bearing in mind we already have a critical issue on our hands now. I mean on any given day you can spend over an hour trying to get from North into castries much less when you have to pass through castries to get into viewport and I hear the complaints every single day. So that is another priority I believe that needs to be considered but we need to know where is the budget coming to do that and when we speak about looking at cheaper options and looking at that from the perspective that we have limited resources we cannot do everything so we need to be looking at more efficient and effective ways to be able to invest in this country such that we can deal with the priorities that we have before us. In stating that Madam President I just want to add the term while we want to give comfort to our visitors and and so on we need to be mindful that yes we need to add to the experience but I don't know that any visitor decides not to travel to a country because of the airport. I travel all the time I don't even I buy my ticket I travel I don't consider what airport I'm going to land at. Yes I want comfort but at the end of the day we in St. Lucia we've had a lot of repeat business I happen to be involved in a tourist related business and interact very regularly with visitors to the country and we have a large population of repeat visitors to this country and when they talk about why they return to St. Lucia they never talk about anything to do with the airport they tell you they come because of the warmth of the people the the cuisine the natural beauty of the country the culture you hear all those attributes but nobody has said well I will not come back or my friend didn't come back or my husband didn't come back because the airport was inadequate so I'm saying all this to say that while it is important that we enhance the experience we need to look at whether it is necessary to spend that much and to what extent we are developing the airport. Let's talk a little bit about debt service if you permit me Madam President the motion before us tells us is that interest I'm sorry Madam President debt service the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan inclusive of a five-year grace period the interest is payable at a rate of six of six month libel interbank offered rates plus 1.5 percent per annum Madam President interest payment over a period of five years at six million dollars it works out to six million ec dollars per year sorry thanks 12 million dollars per year it works out to six million per six monthly period and 12 million per annum so when you calculate further we are talking about 60 million ec dollars over a period of five years just to service interest Madam President that means in year six we start to serve as the principal so we are given a bank 60 million dollars worth of interest I need to understand the rationale is it prudent to only pay interest when from my understanding we are already collecting the tax at the airport we have funds in a lockbox and we will continue to add funds to the lockbox so I need to understand why it is we have to pay interest only for a period of five years usually a moratorium on principal payments when we're speaking about capital projects it's usually tied to the gestation period of the project so if it is a project is going to take one year to build you pay interest for a period of one year if it's two years you pay interest for a period can you get a grace period while you are waiting to complete the project and to collect revenues but in this particular scenario Madam President it is different the revenue stream is already established I think we it was approved in the house earlier on in the year so we do have the revenue so what I believe this is money that we could spend doing or taking care of our other priorities as opposed to just paying interest so I would like to ask the leader of government visits to explain what was the rationale for agreeing to a moratorium on principal and interest payment for a period of five years equating to 60 million EC dollars interest rate I just want to spend a little time Madam President to talk about the interest rate the interest rate is tied to LIBOR based on my research one year or 12 month LIBOR rate currently is about 3.6% so therefore a rate of 4.56% seem reasonable bearing in mind what exists in the market today but LIBOR is fluid LIBOR is tied to what happens in the external market I don't if you recall Madam President during the oil crisis LIBOR hit astronomical levels during 9 11 after 9 11 sorry LIBOR peaked after the global financial crisis LIBOR peaked based on my research back in 1989 LIBOR went as high as 11% which therefore means if we have a similar situation we talking about a rate of 12.5% during the oil crisis LIBOR had gone as high as 6% so if we have to have a similar situation we can be paying something like 7.5% I am saying all this to say that I expect that some form an analysis of analysis would have been done to determine whether that was the better best approach and I don't know if there is still time for the government to consider getting a fixed rate loan maybe we are safer getting a fixed rate loan bearing in line we don't have any control over the fact that LIBOR fluctuates and it can create an interest rate risk factor for us going forward speaking of which we need to ensure that if it is we cannot get a fixed rate that we are able to mitigate against such an eventuality by having perhaps some kind of cushion to cover increased cost of interest and increase loan repayment so madam president that's a concern collateral madam president on the e we have the terms and conditions proposed by the export import bank of the republic of china taiwan are accepted so we spoke about interest rate we spoke about payment of principle however and if I may backtrack madam president when we speak about payment of principle we have not been told how much the government has to pay as it relates to the principle sum of the loan which will kick in as at year six I didn't see that I didn't hear that presented we heard a figure for interest but what will be the repayment will be paying monthly will be paying every six months will be paying annually and what is the quantum and will the rate of interest remain the same we don't know that so I was speaking about collateral a while ago madam president collateral speaks to what have we committed to what have we agreed to with the bank in the event of default that is very very important if the government defaults on payment of the loan because a while ago senator henry spoke about risk and there are lots of risks I spoke about interest rate risk a while ago we have market risk we have environmental risk physical environmental risk this is talking about a lot about climate change and the devastating effect of climate climate change the need to build resilience but it's all accepted that we cannot build resilience in the short term and the trajectory for building resilience is in 2030 for us to achieve some level of comfort between now and 2030 anything can happen in the physical environment how do we cushion that sort of effect so we need to know in terms of security in the event of default what have we promised is the government of taiwan or the bank of taiwan coming to seize the airport are they going to take control of running the airport we need to know these things madam president because these are very very critical and important questions that we need to consider um and um it's not far-fetched madam president when we're talking about tourism it's it's it's heartening to hear the growth that we are projecting and the investments we are making to increase the growth but tourism is really almost a mono industry if you ask me because every other major industry we have in central jeffins of the tourism industry so when something happens and we experienced it during 9 11 we experienced it during or after the 2008 crisis you had issues with tourism arrivals and it affected banking it affected the supermarket business it has affected the transportation business just because downstream we have so many other industries that are feeding off the tourism sector so we have to make sure that there is prudence and we manage all the various risk elements that are associated with running a country with that kind of situation we know that our agricultural sector is not generating as much as it did in the past and that needs attention we also do know that manufacturing you know while we've made some strides we still have a way to go there and at the end of the day we want to make sure that we are focused on managing risk like i said cip is under the industry and madam president the report was stable and i'm happy that finally we have the cip report in the house i've had a cursory glance added i noticed we have actually issued 128 um um passports to citizens of other countries i've also noticed the contribution of five million dollars at the end of the fiscal year so five million dollars returned from selling 188 passports i want to assess how feasible that is how solid an investment that is and whether the investment is worth the associated risk they are risk associated with running a cip program as we well know in terms of due diligence and breaches and in terms of black listing and gray listing and the whole looks but anyway i don't want to spend too much time on this i think at another forum we can spend more time debating the cip report suffice it to say i'm happy that finally the report is here so we can do some kind of analysis and have a debate on that madam president again senator henry spoke about the whole issue of of um cost overruns um i just want to ask the question will there be an open tendering process through the government central tending board um if that body still exists also a project of that magnitude madam president requires submission of competitive bids so that we can determine who is giving us the best deal for our buck you know so i want to understand whether we have actually put out whether we are going to do the modern president just point of order for the 6a i realize the independent senator is asking questions based on the the the comments of the leader of opposition business i am not sure that it's proper um because i was the one who presented the motion and therefore she should be directing the questions to me and not i'm just in some clarification on this madam president senator she should actually be directing her questions or her submission to me and not to you um and i am not to be aware um on what basis she has founded them so when the time comes you will have the opportunity to um answer as you're allowed to and you can address whatever issue she may have but i cannot tell from the chair whether she's formulating her submission based on what the senator is saying she has not quoted him actually madam president she did she did she made a reference to what he said madam president she made a reference i have no i have no issue with responding to what she's asking i stand corrected if that's the case yes but i'm just saying that the submission should be the senators please be guided according to you madam president i'll be so guided however madam president this is all in my notes but in so far as the senator already mentioned some of what i have i was barely making a reference to the fact that he mentioned this but it is in my notes so going forward i will not refer to what he said i will just stick to my notes even if there is repetition madam president thank you very much for your guidance uh i was asking whether there will become a competitive bidding process such that we can get the best buck the best deal for our buck and i believe in this context we need to do so to ensure that we secure the best deal with respect to the contractor a madam president i would like to know whether if a contractor has been considered or if that is in the works i would like to make a suggestion that we select the most competent contractor for the job or contractor with a solid track record in undertaking such a project and a project of that magnitude madam president a contractor who can stick to quality standards international quality standards and not one who will come and give a shoddy work for us to head down the road we have mold or we have structural defects such that we have to demolish the airport we want to make sure that we recruit a contractor that can deliver on time not just in terms of completion time but within budget such that we can mitigate cost overruns and speaking of cost overruns of my um mr sorry madam president projects of that nature historically has had significant cost overruns on the Barbados airport project comes to mind Piacco airport in Trinidad comes to mind there was significant cost overruns so that is another area we need to look at in terms of providing a buffer in the event that we do have cost overruns such that we can continue and complete the project that the last thing we would want is to senator you have 15 minutes to complete your submission thank you the last thing we want is to end up with a failed project and of course i don't want to go the road of talking about our experience in that regard because it's all well known so i want to ask whether you know we are looking at those um sort of criteria in recruiting a contractor who will be the consultant engineer and again if that has not been decided very based on our experience with project implementation i believe that we need to recruit the best consultant engineer to oversee that project as well as the best project manager or project management team to ensure that all elements of the project is addressed in a manner such that we end up with a good quality project at the end of the day finally madam president my objective here is of course just to ensure that um there is a level of prudence um in looking at such a critical investment and to ensure that um we allay the fears of the citizenry across the board because from having discussions with certain persons there are concerns there are fears and while we can stand in the house and debate with each other and answer and so on there are persons outside there who need clarity and who are pair as well and need to to understand better what the investment is about and i think they do want some of the questions if not most of the questions that i've answered so mr leader of government business i look forward to sorry sorry madam president i'm sorry i'm being pushed madam president i um i am looking forward to the responses that will be forthcoming from the leader of government business i thank you for the opportunity madam senator wujie thank you madam president um greetings to fellow senators um in the house and to the people of st lushan um i hope we have a healthy safe and responsible christmas um made our festivities madam president i would like to make a few comments on the matter at hand um we note from the resolution that the loan is a hundred million us dollars so rounded off madam president that is two hundred and seventy two million e c dollars i would offer the opinion that that is a significant increase in the country's indebtedness and i am concerned madam president about the relatively short maturity on that loan and i will elaborate later on the cost um given that the average life of an airport should exceed 20 years and that we should be planning perhaps with a 30 to 35 year horizon 20 years repayment on a debt of that magnitude i think is short i would like perhaps that we consider the economic impact of servicing that debt given the lifespan of the infrastructure that we are trying to create the we note also madam president that the effective repayment is 15 years because there is a great spirit of five years at the beginning of the project so the project will peak in terms of debt servicing possibly around 2023 that's after the next election who knows who will be responsible for that fiscal burden but repayment of principle all other things being equal madam president will be 18 million dollars per year if you take the principle and divide it equally across a 15 year cycle there's approximately 12 million dollars a year in interest which also has to be serviced so and that's the equivalent of the stated amount 2.19 million u.s dollars twice a year um i'm concerned that this fixed amount madam president is not tied in any way in the documents that we have to a disbursement schedule one should be paying interest on the amount disbursed unless it's a commitment fee in which case it is related to the total amount to be borrowed but if this is interest then it has to be tied to a disbursement schedule and should apply only to the amount of the loan that has been drawn down and so the fact that it is a fixed amount over the entire first five years is a bit puzzling i'm wondering how it is calculated also at peak let us imagine around year six slasper will have to find 30 million dollars per year for interest and principle or breaking it down three million dollars per month um i'm sure that consideration has been given to the cash flow effects on slasper the institution and it would be useful to have that information here as we contemplate this rather large undertaking we should also be concerned given our track record with the maintenance of public infrastructure that a three million dollar commitment per month is going to affect slasper's ability to service other projects and as slasper is responsible for other strategic infrastructure other ports and other airports i think they impact on their cash flow and their fiscal position should be seriously considered and some detail of that ought to be presented to the honorable house so that we can be assured that this burden which is significant three million dollars a month i think is a major is a major difference um to its regular operations that should be demonstrated clearly that slasper is able to manage that because the default position will return to the central government should that arise madam president at a rate of i think it's 13 us dollars per person roughly 33 ec dollars per passenger 35 depending on the how you how you um how you uh calculated um we need about 900 000 visitors to meet that level of debt service we're at 400 000 visitors now if the math is correct so that's less than half so a strategy to increase the number of passengers who will actually be paying um the the well generating the cash flow necessary to service the debt i think is part of the scenario that we should have before us at any rate um it's a significant jump in the throughput at uanora airport and there ought to be some mention of how this will be met um as for the question of increasing national debt um madam chair there has been some reference to that already but i must point out that the guarantee remains as a contingent liability on the books of central government and under the finance act we must take it under consideration that government is with central government is responsible and at any rate it is part of the calculation of the national debt and so we shouldn't overlook the the impact even if it is within a statutory cooperation the guarantee brings it into central government finances unless i am wrong which is entirely possible but it will affect the debt service it will affect the debt profile and the credit worthiness of central government by normal um by normal standard practice in the world of public finance the possibility of prepayment was also mentioned during the debate um by uh leader of government business i think it would be wise to to confirm that there is no penalty for such repayment in that in the terms of the loan we don't have any detail in the documents before so on the terms of the loan although we are being asked to approve those terms as um mentioned in section e um the terms of the exit bank are hereby approved that those terms have not been presented as far as i am aware and it would be useful to have them before us regarding the grace period madam president um the grace period is five years um if we are collecting um funds already it seems to me that a shorter grace period might be in order uh because of the interest charges we are going to be paying at roughly 12 million dollars a year for the use of that capital again it needs to be related to a disbursement schedule it had that has not been presented and also if we have funds at hand let us contemplate how that matches with the implementation schedule and perhaps start servicing the debt before that regarding the interest rates on the loan libor is just under 2 percent the six month libor london interbank offered rate um is just under 2 percent but it's been trending upwards and so if you add 1.5 percent to that you're looking at 3.5 percent per annum 3.5 percent on 100 million dollars is a lot of money and the possibilities for fluctuation in that rate continue i think it's a good idea to have the debt tied to libor because it's an internationally determined interest rate it's a market driven rate it's realistic we understand that but the the vagaries in that rate which is subject to manipulation and there was a huge libor scandal not so long ago about how it is determined um we have to be concerned that that that is a volatile rate and at 100 million us dollars the impact on our cash flows will be significant if of even a small percentage increase in that rate there's also a major difference between the interest payable during the grace period and the interest payable after the grace period that does not make a well it doesn't make for clarity let's put it that way because the risk profile should be lower during the first few years and yet the interest rate is working out at a significantly higher rate than during the the latter 15 years of the life of the loan there's at least a full full percentage point between the grace period interest and the rest of the of the loan based on libor at 2.9 percent which is where it's trending right now also madam president the if if we are tying the debt to libor and we are collecting a pool of resources against that debt then it would make sense to invest that money in a libor denominated instrument so that if your cost of borrowing goes up then your return on your libor rated deposit would also be going up to match it this is called hedging i'm sure most of us know that but it's also balancing your assets and your liability so if we have a pool of resources which are dedicated to a libor denominated liability then there should be a corresponding asset that helps to hedge the risk of of the fluctuations in libor the question of also how is the loan to be dispersed is it to be dispersed in tranches are we going to draw down all of this money and have it sitting with us and therefore in a crewing interest the fixed interest rates suggest that i'm not sure that that makes sense i would imagine that we would draw down the money as it is needed and as the project is implemented that would keep our interest rates down so why the interest rates should be fixed at 2.19 million every six months i'm not certain that that has been made clear um madam president madam deputy president madam president um the use of an internationally determined market rate as i said earlier is is a good one i would like to see more of our borrowing index to such rates but we also have to consider how that is going to affect the cash flows of the country and the cash flows of slasper in particular we have been asked to look at the terms and conditions i mentioned that earlier please if we could have those at our disposal would be very good i would also like to ask as has been mentioned earlier what what is in place to reasonably assure us that the money is being borrowed are going to match the expenditure as anticipated um fellow independent senator made a note of the need for the people of senator to understand what is to be built and how much is it to cost and given our rather dismal record of unfinished product projects and projects that never end than monies that finish before time i feel that there needs to be an agreed scope of works and a great expenditure plan and let us not also forget that at an average rate of 10 per cent per annum for recurrent expenditure to to maintain the airport there is another 10 million dollars a year that has to be considered where will it come from how will it be sourced how will it be deployed but generally if you create an asset of a hundred million dollars you're going to be generating also a recurrent expenditure of roughly 10 percent how is that impacting on the recurrent revenue and expenditure profile of the government that also should be explained to the good people of st lucer also madam deputy president the the and i say this to close we are being asked to approve a borrowing of a hundred million u.s. dollars but incumbent upon that decision is the interim interest payments for the first five years which is 60 million dollars so we need to be very very clear about what we are approving here and also if you calculate 3.5 interest for the 15 years of repayment that is 525 million additional dollars or half a billion dollars it has to be found which makes the total cost of this project over the life of 20 years some 850 million dollars madam president that is a huge amount and it is not inconsequential and we really ought to have a much clearer idea as to how the people and the unborn children of st lucer are going to pay this debt honorable leader of government business at our last sitting promised and i will ask you to hold him to that promise madam chair that he would bring to this honorable house if he could possibly said he would try to bring to the house at the time of future borrowing requests some impact assessment of where the additional borrowing leaves us in terms of our entire debt profile and how it impacts on the resources of the country and in the in the debt service capacity of central government and i feel that the people of st lucer need to know where we're where we're going and how we're going to stay on the path that has been envisaged thank you very much ma'am honorable leader of government business madam deputy president i beg that the house be suspended for one hour we return here at 2 30 p.m senators the question is that this sitting of the senate be suspended until 2 30 i now put the question as many who are of that opinion say i as many who are of the country opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it