 Thank you very much for inviting me here. I believe my great-grandfather came here. My grandmother came here. My father came here. So it's an honor for me. And I'm looking forward to your questions. Okay. Let me just remind everyone that I'm happy to take your questions. But please write them on the cards provided and hand them before. Shouted questions will not be picked up by our microphones. And if you disturb this proceeding, we will be escorted out. So just wanted to make that clear. Okay. So since Mr. Modi has come to power, India's economy has improved, according to independent economic assessments. What's your take on the current government's economic policies? Have they improved the country's position? I mean, what we see on the ground is massive unemployment and dramatic increase in prices. And this is one of the reasons we won the Karnataka election, was that there was a feeling in India that there is a set of people who have a huge amount of wealth, and then there's a large mass of Indian people who are poor and struggling, huge income disparities, and unemployment. I think it's a 40-year high for unemployment. So to say that the economy is doing well, I don't quite agree with it. And are there particular policies that are cause for concern or that should be changed? I think the central difference between how we see it and how the BJP sees it is we believe in decentralization of power. We believe in supporting the small and medium industries, and we believe that they are the engine of growth in India, and they tend to concentrate power and wealth in few limited people. So that's, I would say, broadly that's the difference in the economic perspective. If your party were to return to power, what changes would it seek to implement to ensure the rights of minorities in India? I mean, India has a very robust system already in place. That system has been weakened, right? But it's not that that system doesn't exist. If the conversation, the democratic conversation is allowed to be fostered, then these issues will settle themselves. So the rule of law is in place? No, it's not. You have to have an independent set of institutions that are not pressurized and controlled. And that's been the norm in India. This is an aberration of what is taking place in India. So from our perspective, the foundations of democracy in India are very strong. And the protections exist, but they're being sort of disturbed. And you see that if Congress came to power, they could quickly be restored? Quickly, I don't know, but the Congress Party is the institution that conceptualized them in the first place. So we don't view them as our institutions. We view them as institutions of the state. And so we ensured that there was independence and neutrality in these institutions. And it's not difficult to do if that's what you're trying to do. Let me ask you about, again, welcome to the press club. And let me ask you about press freedom, a very important issue for us all. I should full disclosure. My colleague, Vivek Raghavanshi, was arrested several weeks ago and charged with an accused of espionage. He's an Indian citizen. And he's been working for my company for more than 30 years as a journalist. And I wanted to ask you what that says about the state of press freedom in India when someone can be just accused of, you know, even after someone with such a reputation can be accused in such a cavalier manner. No, I think the fact that there is a weakening of press freedoms, this is not hidden. I mean, everybody knows it. It's apparent in India. The rest of the world can see it. And I think press freedom is very, very critical for a democracy. I mean, one should be open to criticism and one should listen to criticism. I mean, that's the feedback loop that builds democracies. And definitely there is a weakening of press freedom. And it's not just press freedom. It's on multiple axes. On multiple axes, there is a clamp down on the institutional framework that allowed India to talk, that allowed the Indian people to negotiate. I view India as a negotiation between its people, between different languages, different cultures, different histories. And the architecture that Mahatma Gandhi set up was to allow that negotiation to be carried out fairly and freely. And that structure that allows the negotiation between India's people is coming under pressure. I mean, this is a question you should ask Mr. Modi. So, more apt. I don't know how you'll get there. As soon as we get him here. I don't know how you'll get there. I think we better question directed at him. Okay. What are your concerns with regard to the use of the citizenship law to expel Muslim Indians who have lived in India for generations? How would you handle things differently? I think all Indian people have a right to expression. All Indian people have a right to religious freedom. All Indian communities should feel free to express themselves. So, I don't differentiate between any community, any caste. I think India, as I mentioned just now, is a conversation. And the freer and more open that conversation, the more powerful India becomes. Okay. You have said that Modi's BJP engages in the politics of hatred and violence. Can you explain what you mean by this? I mean, explained in the sentence, right? They sort of generate a certain amount of hatred in society. They polarize society. And they're not inclusive. They don't embrace everybody. And they divide society. That's what that's. And that's damaging, in my view, to India. Because India has always had a tradition of conversation, of openness. All our great leaders, spiritual, political, Mahatma Gandhi, Buddha, all of them, promoted harmony, promoted peace, promoted conversation. But it's in our culture, it's in our history to sort of bring people together and have these dialogues. So that's, I think it's a difference in ideology between us and the BJP. We feel India should be allowed to express itself. And we feel that political leaders should be comfortable in sort of being questioned. And should learn from that question. So, I mean, it's just a difference in viewpoint. For such a divisive figure, Modi maintains very high levels. In fact, worldwide high levels of popularity. Why do you think that's the case? Why does so many Indians support the Modi government? I mean, there is a definite capture of the institutions of the country. There is a definite capture of the press in the country. I'm not convinced that, you know, I don't believe everything I hear. I walked across India, worked from Kanyakumari to Kashmir. And talked directly to millions of Indian people, millions of Indian people. And they didn't seem very happy to me. And they were very clear that there were serious issues with regards to unemployment. There was massive price rise. So there was an angst in the people. And, you know, look at the Karnataka election and wait and watch the next three or four state elections. That I think is a better indicator of what's going to happen. You're here in Washington. Washington has been sort of has a cozying up, if you will, to the Modi government. Do you feel that this is a mistake? Do you feel like this is not a... Who am I to advise Washington on what they want to do? I mean, it's their choice. They have to decide about these things. It's pretty clear from our perspective where we've got to go. There are certain values that we protect. And we're very serious about protecting those values. As I said, the conversation between the people of India. The idea that all Indians should have space, equal space, equal expression. These are things that for us are non-negotiable and we fight for them and we pay the price. What is your reaction to Prime Minister Modi's statement that not an inch of land has been lost to the border with China? And can you talk about India's relationship with China and how it's changing? I mean, the fact of the matter is China is occupying our territory. It's an accepted fact. I think 1500 square kilometers land the size of Delhi is occupied by them. And I think it's absolutely unacceptable. Prime Minister seems to believe otherwise. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, maybe he knows something we don't know. I'm going to ask about Kashmir. India is positioning Kashmir as a tourist destination while certain populations are persecuted. Do you see this as the path to prosperity for that region? No, I think everybody in India has a democratic right. Every single person in India should be allowed to be part of the conversation. I think there are things that can be improved in Jammu and Kashmir with regards to that conversation. And we are committed to improving the democratic conversation in Jammu and Kashmir. You talked about secularism and democracy while opposing the Hindu party, BJP. However, Congress in Kerala has been in alliance with the Muslim party, Muslim League in Kerala, the state from which you were for MP for more than 70 years. Muslim League is a completely secular party. There's nothing non-secular about the Muslim League. Questions are a little disjointed. Sorry about that. I think the person hasn't studied the Muslim League. Back to politics. How united is the opposition in India? And why isn't Congress supporting Kajrawal on the ordinance issue? That's an internal discussion we are having. The opposition is pretty well united. And I think it's getting more and more united. We are having conversations with all the opposition. And I think quite a lot of good work is happening there. I mean it's a complicated discussion because there are spaces where we are competing also with the opposition. So it's a little bit of give and take is required, but I'm confident that that will happen. So given the electoral strength of the BJP, would Congress now be willing to consider being part of a coalition government that it does not lead? Well, I mean these are questions that need to be asked to the Congress president because he's the decision maker. I think the Congress party will do very well in the next election. I think it will surprise people because I think there is a hidden undercurrent building and I think will surprise people. And I'm not entirely convinced about this idea that Mr. Narendra Modi is going to win the 24 elections. I think it's not as simple as people make out. If you just do the math, a united opposition will defeat the BJP on its own without any electoral math. What can the international community, what role is there for the international community to prevent a slide towards authoritarianism? See, it's our job, it's our business and it's our work to fight the battle for democracy in India. And it's something that we understand, we accept and we do. But the thing to remember is that Indian democracy is a global public good. Because India is large enough that a collapse in democracy in India will have an impact on the world. So that's for you to think about how much you value Indian democracy. But for us it's an internal matter and it's a fight that we are committed to and we are going to win. President Biden will host Prime Minister Modi for an official state visit later this month. The White House said in a statement that the visit will strengthen both countries' shared commitment to a free, open, prosperous and secure Indo-Pacific. And deep in strategic partnerships and defense, clean energy and space, what impact do you see the visit having? I mean, let's see what happens in the visit. I think that the Prime Minister come here and let the visit take place and then let's see. I don't want to sort of prejudge this. Yeah, but I do think the relationship between India and the United States is very, very important. I think it's also important that we broad-based the relationship. It's important to have a defense relationship. But I think we need to also consider other areas and we need to have a vision for other spaces other than defense. Do you see India as a center between Russia and China and U.S. interests? Do you see it benefiting from the interplay of these countries? Or do you see it taking almost a leadership role in the Indo-Pacific in terms of economic issues? Look, India has to do what's in itself interest, right? And that's what guides us. But as a people, we are committed to a democratic vision. So, I myself am not entirely convinced about the sort of autocratic vision that is being promoted. And I think that it's very important that democracy is protected on the planet, right? So, India has a role there. India, of course, has its view on things. And I think that view should be put on the table. But I don't think one should think about these things as, oh, you're the center of things. I think that could be arrogant. We understand the strengths that we bring to the table, right? Democratic values, data. These are some of the things that technology, a highly educated, technically educated population, these are strengths. And I think we have to chart our course based on these strengths. This is a question from the audience. India started as a secular state, but is currently leaning toward a Hindu state. Is that a threat to democracy? Is India losing its original ideology from your perspective? I think there's a fight on in India. There are two visions of India. There is the vision that the BJP has. It's a centralizing vision. It's a polarizing vision. And then there's another vision equally strong. In fact, if you ask me much stronger, but not expressing itself that effectively right now, which is a decentralized view and embracing vision, a sensitive, compassionate vision. And I am absolutely convinced that this is a transitional phase and the true nature of India, the true democratic nature of India, compassionate nature of India will triumph. I have no doubt in my mind. And by the way, we've gone through this phase before. So it's not that it's a new thing. The Congress party faced this exact same thing in the 30s and we decimated it. And we will do the same again. People are impatient, you know. People are like, very impatient. BJP has been in power for 10 years. Well, okay, we were in power for 10 years before that. Why did nobody say, you know, in UPA2, when we had been in power for eight years, why did nobody say, oh my God, the BJP is going to evaporate? After all, the same, you know, we were in power for 10 years. So there is a tendency for the media to sort of exaggerate these things. There are reasons for it also, but we are committed to the democratization of India. And we are committed, especially to the emancipation of the poor people of India, the lower caste, backward castes, these communities. I think I heard you say you described the media in India as somewhat captured by the powers that be. I mean, I think you could remove the word somewhat. So if your party comes to power, what steps would be taken to free up that press and make it less? I mean, you don't really need to do much. You need to just stop interfering and stop pressurizing. And if you look at the UPA period, we didn't interfere, we didn't pressurize, and it worked perfectly fine. So if the leadership of the country decides that a free press is valuable, then it will fall into place. Got a question for you on Bangladesh here. How do you view Bangladesh's situation as the country struggles for democracy, voting rights, freedom of expression and human rights? No, I think, I mean, Bangladesh is a friend of India, but it's for Bangladesh to decide these things. It's not my place to tell Bangladesh how they should live their life. Okay, let's see. It says, this is a question from the audience. In nine years of BJP rule, India has become, as a 3.5 trillion rupee or dollar economy, India is one of the most, and yet India is one of the most impoverished countries. So how do you see India addressing its many problems, given the challenges of democracy, given the challenges of the divisive rule of, what's the way forward in terms of specifically addressing poverty? I mean, you know, the 3.5 trillion, India has a particular growth rate. So that's just a natural consequence of that growth rate. The question is, how is the wealth of India distributed? Is India creating jobs? Are Indian people feeling that they can express themselves? Are they happy? Is there general tranquility in the country? Congress Party has a record for doing this. I mean, it's not, I mean, we've done it for many, many years. I think a good model is to let the people of India get to work, let them do what they're best at doing, and not to sort of, you know, pressurize them and threaten them and do that. There's a historical record for this. I mean, after all, India did extremely well in the early 2000s. What do you see as the main drivers of this? There's a cost. You see, there's also something that people don't realize is that there's a massive economic cost to this disharmony, right? To this non-conversation. That filters out, right? So saying that Indian economy is doing well, that doesn't take in the full picture. What are the other costs that you're creating? Those are not being factored in, right? We had better economic growth than the BJP, created more jobs than the BJP, and had complete harmony in the country. What do you see as the biggest drivers of the economy in the short term, in the coming years? I think what the BJP's policies have done, particularly demonetization and what we consider to be a flawed GST, they have weakened the small and medium businesses in India. And we believe that the small and medium businesses are actually the backbone of economic activity in India. If you want to create jobs, if you want to have a 21st century economy, you have to empower these people and turn them from being small and medium businesses to large businesses. So in our mind, it's taking these businesses and scaling them up. And having hundreds if not thousands of these businesses become large businesses. So that's where we fundamentally differ with the BJP. They believe that you don't need these small and medium businesses, that you can build the Indian economy with three or four huge massive businesses. Unfortunately, having three or four massive businesses doesn't translate into jobs. It can't. So that's really at the heart of the difference between the two visions. And you can see it. So the growth during the UPA period is much better than the growth now. And there's massive levels of unemployment in India now. And it's a real problem because our people, they need to be put into productive activity. It's a huge waste of the most valuable resource on the planet. Can India go it alone to build those small, medium and small businesses or do they need more open to outside investors? No, I think the United States, I think that's when I was talking about broad basing the relationship. I was talking about that, that the United States and India have synergies that if they come together can be very powerful. What we are facing is a particular vision of the world, Chinese vision of the world that offers productivity, prosperity, but under a non-democratic framework. That's not acceptable to us because we simply cannot thrive under a non-democratic structure. So we have to think about production and prosperity in a democratic framework. And I think that's where the bridge between India and the United States can play a very important role for us, for you and I think also for the planet. To show the rest of the world that production, manufacturing in a democratic environment is possible and can actually be competitive with the Chinese model. And also while keeping the environment in mind, is the environment a major concern of yours going into the next election? As I said, you can't ignore costs and pretend they don't exist. And when you're thinking about these things, you don't want to think about them in the one year, two year, five year time frame. As a country you'd like to think about them in a 20, 30 year time frame. And if you're looking at that span, then the environment is fundamental. You can't get away from it. Saying that, the world is in a transition. So we are moving from internal combustion engines to electric motors. There is an energy transition taking place. So we have to adapt ourselves to benefit from those transitions. And I think India is very well placed to do that. Would you consider a big increase in exports, one way of measure that? Or is that really about innovating the economy to take advantage of these new technologies? It's both. If India starts manufacturing, starts producing, it will start to export as well. I think there is an opportunity for India to successfully compete with the Chinese on manufacturing. We might not end up doing it the way they do it. So we might not end up having huge factories. We might end up having smaller factories with high technology embedded in them. So the system will probably look different. But the end result would be similar. We would compete with China and you would see made in China and you would see made in India. Can you do it without more Chinese investment? Is there enough money coming in from elsewhere? That's where the India-US relationship should be looking. I mean that to me is what the conversation should be about. How do we build this alternative production system, alternative manufacturing system? And I think there's a lot of interesting things there. Because of our size, because of data, because of our technological capabilities, your technological capabilities. So I think the strengthening of the bridge between the United States and India and the widening it, making it from a two-lane highway to a 10, 15, 20-lane highway is how I think about it. Does the US tendency to flirt with the debt ceiling and so on give you pause as far as partnering with America in the long term? There are always stumbling blocks, there are always relationships like that between the United States and India. They will move very fast and they'll slow down, they'll move very fast. But as long as the progression is in the right direction and you're focusing on the right things, I think you'll end up resolving the problems. A couple more questions from the audience here. If you believe the BJP pushes hard propaganda, how do you wish to tackle the government messaging heading into 2024? Well, we had been struggling with this for some time. And we came across this very simple idea, which was to walk from Kanyakumari to Kashmir. And it was shocking how effective that idea was. I was just frankly blown away because when we went directly to the people, no amount of force worked. I mean, the BJP was trying everything they could to not allow the Yatra to be successful. It didn't work. So it was very interesting. I think all this propaganda doesn't work if you go close to the people. If you're far from the people, it's very easy. But once you start going close to the people and you start having conversations, you start working on the streets, you start physically meeting people. It doesn't work. It's quite a revelation to me. And I think it sort of made me understand what Mahatma Gandhi was doing with the Champaran movement or the Dandi march. I think, as I was saying in Stanford yesterday, in the West and in India, there is a distance between the people and the political class. And I think that's where the propaganda comes into play. If you bridge that gap, it's very difficult. Can you get your message out with the media? We got the message out with the Yatra in an explosive way. I mean, fantastic. So the people in here are hearing your message. Loud and clear. Yes. And I mean, it's obvious to every single person in India that the message of the Yatra, India needs to stand united. India needs to work together. Resonated. Resonated with BJP people. Some days back, I was somewhere and I had one of the spokesmen of the BJP who just bumped into me and she said that this was a very powerful thing that you did. All right. Why should religious minorities see your party as an alternative to the BJP's politics? Because it's not just religious minorities. It's everybody because we give space to all ideas in India, all communities, all religions. And the design of our party and our original designer, Mahatma Gandhi, designed the party to be based on truth and non-violence, compassion, affection. So it's a completely different philosophical architecture than the BJP. It's a different vision of India. It views India as a conversation. It views India as multiple ideas. It's a bit like the melting pot idea in the United States where everybody comes together and you have a conversation. And then you negotiate. So everybody is comfortable in it. Several related questions. Here's one. India has been a country of particular concern in the International Religious Freedom Report for several years. And it talks about the policies against Muslims and so on. What would your party do in power to heal or to bring the Muslims and other religious minorities together into the coalition? I mean, you just have to look at our record. Our record speaks for itself. We don't even have to say what we're going to do. Just look at what we've done. We are the ones, not we, but the Congress party is the institution that united India in the first place. They fought the British, defeated the British and built the entire architecture for this conversation. So it's in our DNA we are committed to this. And as I said, the framework for this is present in India. It's not that it needs to be constructed. It needs to be nurtured and protected, which we know how to do. This is another question from the audience. So as the way you were disqualified from parliament and what is happening in Pakistan, do you see any similarities here and what does that say about politics in the region? I don't know. I mean, look, as you said, I asked a rhetorical question. I asked the question, why were you described it? I'm fighting a court case, so I have to be careful. But I asked a rhetorical question. And I'm the first person in India to be given the highest punishment for a deformation case. This is the first case. I'm the first person in Indian history since 1947. Nobody has been given the maximum sentence on deformation and that too on the first offense. So that should explain what's going on here. And my disqualification happens quite interestingly after I make a speech about Mr. Adani and parliament. So you can do the math. Let's see. But you know, my disqualification is not really, it's okay. It's not the most important thing. The most important thing is the thousands and thousands of other voices, civil society, government, bureaucracy, who are being frightened into submission. That's much more important to me than my disqualification. My disqualification in many ways is an advantage for me. How so? Because it opens up completely new spaces for me. You know, it allows me to completely redefine myself. And I think they've given me a gift, frankly. They don't think they realize it. But they have. Politics is not linear. You know, it's like, it can suddenly go off into another direction. It's asymmetric. So I think they've given me a gift. It's not apparent right now, but I think they have. So you've come from a political family. The Gandhi's have been compared to the Kennedy family here in the U.S., both in terms of highest heights and unfortunate assassinations. What keeps you going? What keeps you involved in politics despite what can be great risks? I defend an idea. I love the people of my country. In particular, the people who are struggling. I have a bias towards them. And I completely empathize with their struggle. It disturbs me when I see the pain in India. And I have no choice because that creates a response, emotional response in me that I can't fight. So it's just natural. And also I've grown up with a sort of narrative about my country. A Gandhian narrative of what the country is, what it should look like, what is important. So that's what drives me. I'm not concerned really about threats of violence and assassination and stuff. I mean, everybody's got to die. I mean, that's what I learned from my grandmother and my father. So you don't back down because of something like that. Here's a question. Just in India's relationship with Russia has been controversial since the war in Ukraine began. How would Congress administration handle this relationship or the situation in Ukraine differently? I don't know if you like my answer, but I think similar to how the BJP would or did. We would be responding in a similar way to BJP. Because we have sort of a relationship with the Russians that can't be denied. It is there. So I think our policy would broadly be similar. From your perspective, has the relationship with Russia changed since the war in Ukraine began? I think in some ways it might have. I think it might have changed in some ways. But there is a old historic relationship with the Russians and we buy weapons from them. So there are also those type of reasons for this. But I don't think the Congress government would be dramatically different than what the BJP is doing right now in terms of Russia. Got time for a couple more questions. You've asked a lot. You've got through a lot. There's a lot of interest here in you, sir. So I'm going to butcher these names. Please forgive me. You have compared with Guru Nanak Udassis driving your speech in San Francisco while the SGPC has raised questions on your statement. What would you say? Do you know what this is referring to? I'm sorry. I promised you I'd ask. No, I don't know. What is Udassis? Ah, okay, okay. Sorry, thank you. I'll explain it. So I said that the tradition of a Yatra or a walk is a very deep tradition in India. And I said that many great people have used this instrument of a walk. Mahatma Gandhi has used it. Guru Nanak has used it. And as an instrument of conversation and as an instrument of understanding. So I think they're saying that I shouldn't compare the Bharat Jodo Yatra to walks that Guru Nanak and Mahatma Gandhi took. But I wasn't doing that. I clearly said that, look, I draw inspiration from these great leaders and what they did. And there's no question of comparing this walk to their walk. But I think they misunderstood it. I see. What is your message to the Indian people as to why they should support Congress in the next election? Is it about economic achievement? Is it about tolerance? I said in my Yatra, I'd say it in Hindi. Do you speak Hindi? I wish I did. So in a market of hatred, open a little shop of love and affection. So I believe that India needs to be in harmony. And I believe that India needs to be able to express itself to truly succeed. If you... I don't know of one case where somebody who's angry or somebody who's full of hatred has had an expansive imagination. And India needs an expansive imagination. India needs to dream big. And you can't dream big if the people who are leading you are angry, are violent, are engrossed with hatred. So I think I feel India has a great opportunity, huge opportunity, which can transform the lives of millions and millions of Indians. But in order to do that, it needs to imagine a new India in a big dynamic manner. And I think in order to do that, India needs to be in harmony. India needs to start talking to itself. India needs to respect itself. So that would be one element of it. Hatred doesn't work. You know that your country knows that better than anybody else. Hatred has never worked. Might work for six months, one year. And then it collapses on itself. Affection, love always work. They have. But we've been told by the great leaders. All right. Well, I want to thank you for joining us today at the club. And thank you for answering so many questions. Are you inviting the Prime Minister? Absolutely. We'll invite for his time. I look forward to hearing it. I also want to thank Bill McCarran, Cecily, Scott Martin and Poonam Sharma for their role in bringing this together. And perhaps my members of your family have received this in the past. But as a thank you, this is our press club mug. It's highly coveted. Perhaps it can go on the mantle. You know, I was actually looking for a coffee mug. Okay. Excellent. Well, thank you very much. Thank you.