 and welcome back to Teens on Topic. I'm your host, Cedric Hughes. Today, we'll be discussing education reform in America. But first, let's take a look at what members of the Davis community have to say. Do you think that there should be any changes to the education system? Actually, yes, I really do think there's a lot of room for changes because our education system hasn't really caught up to the science that we're learning about how the human brain works and how people learn. For instance, we know that young kids learn a lot from playing, and I don't feel like they're not getting enough play time if they're going to school, in a regular school, five days a week. Even the kindergartners are having to do a lot of sitting and workbook work. So I think that could be changed to give them a little more play time and freedom. Thank you. Do you think that there should be any changes to the education system? Yes, indeed. I think that when it comes to funding within certain districts, we need to spread it out a little better rather than organizing the funding based on the direct property taxes in the area. So instead of, like where I live, I don't live here, but I live in Central Oregon. We have areas of higher wealth, and those areas have better amenities than the areas with lower wealth. Thank you so much. Do you think that there should be any changes made to the education system? Yeah, I do. I think there are so many that we could talk about way longer than we've got time for today, but I thought about it, and I thought, if we follow the Scandinavian model, where there's no homework until junior high and it ramps you up, that teachers are trained more like doctors, so it's longer, harder to get in, but then you get commensurate pay, and I think that would be great. And then, more skills-based education as well. There are a lot of students who are really looking for something different, and I think giving them the idea to get an internship or a job or working in a trade that they would love could really engage them, and then I think more project-based and collaborative learning really helps because it engages people, it brings a sense of community, and I think it could really transform education. Thank you very much. I got one more random thing I would throw at you. A little curriculum on Canada wouldn't hurt. You guys know nothing about our neighbors to the north. Sure, always. I think that something that would be awesome to see would be an education system that's a little more proactive instead of reactive, so helping students come into the classroom, having a mindset ready to learn and ready to understand, rather than reacting negatively to any sort of small mistakes or something like that would be awesome. Thank you very much. I think that there already are changes of the education system that are really interesting, and we should go more in that direction. For example, here at Da Vinci High School, we're working with project-based learning, and I think that that is a way that engages students that a traditional education does not. And also, for example, my son is a student in a Davis school, and they've been working on reducing or eliminating homework so that students have time with their families and that kind of thing, rather than spending all of their after-school time on doing additional homework. So I think we're moving in the right direction. Thank you very much. We saw a lot of great opinions from members of the Davis community. So first, in looking at pre-K up through fifth or sixth grade. Elementary school. The first interviewee talked about increasing time for play. What do you guys think about this? Should there be more time for children in kindergarten for second grade, maybe all the way up through fifth grade, to have more play? I absolutely think so, and the reason for that is because we look at countries that have that kind of system in place, more than just to make kids do a bunch of homework stuff. Countries that have that alternate system are more successful with their education systems. So I think the model of having young kids do a whole bunch of homework is really based on this flawed mindset of as long as students are writing something on paper with a pencil, they must be learning. And the more papers we give them to write on, they must be learning even more. And that's really not how people work, not how people learn. So I think, yeah, absolutely, there needs to be a change in that respect for sure. Yeah, sometimes you can't physically quantify learning by what's being written on paper. Like I know that's something really easy that you can pick up and say, this is what was done for the day. But sometimes playing, learning things through games, something that doesn't have any physical reward, a physical result to be seen by the eye. I still think that there are ways that you can still progressively teach and progressively learn that don't involve, yeah, just sitting at a desk, writing, memorizing. That's not how little kids are really wired to learn. And that's not how they should be forced to. Yeah, I think that those are both really interesting takes on the matter. And I think that before going into how to reform the system, I think that we need to go off of that and say, what should this system be doing in the first place? How do we want to educate our kids? And I think, for me, I agree entirely with both of you. I think it's the job of the education system to not only educate children cognitively, but also physically, socially, emotionally. And right now, America, we only focus on that cognitive aspect. So we aren't looking at emotional education. We aren't looking at physical education so much. And we aren't looking at social education. In fact, the father of our education system said that school was primarily a social institution. And now, it seems, over 100 years after the formation of public schools, we've digressed from that somewhat. We're so focused on, as you say, if they're writing more, they must be learning more. But maybe the converse is true. Maybe if they're talking more, they might be learning more. So I think that it's true all the way up from pre-K education even, all the way through elementary school, junior high, maybe, and I think especially into high school, that it's important for kids not just to learn the alphabet and how to write and read, but also how to converse on a mature and social level with others. So looking at the next interview, he talked about wanting to adopt the Scandinavian model, which would all but eliminate homework in the lower grade levels and really lighten up the coursework on the students as they progress. Would you agree that this would be a wise decision for America to adopt the Scandinavian model? For sure. I think like you just said, social development needs to be prioritized just as highly as the ability to write well or read well or do math well. I think part of the problem is that our society hasn't really figured out what the purpose of school should be. I think too often it's viewed as essentially just a means to get into college. And we view college as the end goal of education rather than as education being something that's valuable in and of itself. And I think the problem with that is first of all, kids spend like 12 or 13 years prior to college learning. We should be getting something out of that besides for saying, I got into college. Second, a lot of people choose not to go to college, but our education system really isn't built to help those people. Our system is based on what can we do for our students to help them get into some competitive school. And that's really not the kind of system we need now because for all of those students who don't go to college, they need to also be equipped with the necessary skills to be successful and to be able to have a successful career and a happy life. And that's not how our system is built now. So I really think the question we need to be asking is what is our purpose here? What is our goal? What are we trying to accomplish? And I think that's where the issue is now with the American system. Yeah, Zoe, what do you think? I feel like the majority of students, they kind of see high school as riding out the storm in terms of strictly academics. Like take away the friends, take away the social events, the dances. It's just like kind of riding out the storm until I get to college, until I get to that end point. Or yeah, until I get to that graduation. And that's not how it should be. There's 12 years, like you said, there's 12 years of education that shouldn't just be tossed away. That's kind of how I feel like high school is structured. So we're kind of groomed into this college type student. That's how I've always kind of felt that school has been. And that's not how I really want school to be at all, not in the slightest. Yeah, no, I think you guys both bring up really valid points. And I agree, I think that college is oftentimes overvalued. Did you just say that, right? But yeah, I think that we do put too much of an emphasis on getting into a top school in many communities. We can't speak. Zoe, you mentioned earlier in an earlier segment that Davis is kind of a bubble, right? So we are very different from many other communities, but we are also similar to many others. So I think that Davis and many other communities like Davis put such an emphasis on college as the goal without realizing what the true hope for these students are, what do these kids actually want to be doing, and what is the point of college in the first place? So I think that, Ben, going off of what you were saying, I think that when America is looking at its education system, one thing that really needs to be hammered on, or at least given much more attention to is vocational schools. So we see careers like blue collar jobs, like welding, like construction, that going in to these next few years are going to be paying very high salaries, competitive with any professional job, like white collar jobs. And yet it seems that growing up in Davis, we see such an emphasis put on those white collar jobs instead of blue collar to the extent where it seems as if we look down on blue collar jobs. So we say, oh, a plumber or a welder or a construction worker, they didn't work as hard, or it goes as far, they weren't as smart as someone who went into college. But I think that I agree with both of you is that we need to be taking a step back, is that if someone who goes into arc welding can make $120,000 a year, and Davis senior high school, 45% of the students who graduate and go on to four-year college programs come back to Davis with no degree. Who was the smart one there? Was it the arc welder who out of high school is now making $120,000, or is it the person who went off to an academic institution and what are they showing for him? So I think that, long answer, long answer short, I think that we do need to be reevaluating our, where we put the emphasis in our education system. So now let's take a look at somewhere that's doing kind of the opposite of what we've discussed. We've been talking a lot about freeing up stress off of kids, maybe giving them a path to do more of what they want, maybe de-emphasizing college a little bit. Now let's look at somewhere that seemed to go the opposite direction, China. A lot of students in China are spending far longer than any Americans do in their own schools. They have more homework, more rigorous course loads, and they advocate that as the system that should be used. So at Davis High School, we're fortunate enough that right now we have a group of students from China who are visiting. Now, in talking to these students, I asked one of them, how long do you stay at school usually? And he answered from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. So that, it's mind boggling. It's something that I can't even wrap my head around. How could you spend that long at school? It just doesn't seem right, but it's their system and they stand by it. They say it works and it's producing results. However, it goes in totally the opposite direction than the Scandinavian model. So what do you guys think? Is there something to be said for that? Is one right and one wrong? Or is it just a balance of systems? I feel like from my Western perspective, it's going to be very different. Like from my Western perspective, I look at that. I look at the hours they spend in school and how rigorous it is. And I'm like, oh my God, I could never do that. But I also understand that this comes from my Western perspective. So I'll try to, yeah, I'll try to see a little more open-minded. But I feel like their courses, they teach like, they teach intelligence, but it's like intelligence, like computer, this vast storage of knowledge and things. And it doesn't encourage creative thinking as much as the American education system tries to do, at least. And I can't really, I can't take credit for that idea. I was speaking to a couple Chinese American mothers from the local community and they were like, looking back from the American education system versus the education system that they grew up with, it was, they were taught a lot more. Their education system was a lot more conformist than in American education system. And of course our system has problems, like how this, how we grew one kind of student for college and then other than that, it's like, well, okay. But then in China, it's a lot more like this one model of a student. Sure, yeah. So Ben, what do you think? I feel like we can tell that that kind of system isn't really accomplishing the kind of goals that at least I feel and education should be accomplishing. And the reason for that is because so often you hear about some student, whether it's in China or Korea, who does poorly on some giant tests and then commits suicide. Like that just seems like too high a cost to be paying for any amount of education. Like students being compelled to commit suicide because of their educational situation seems really wrong. So obviously that's something that sometimes happens in the US too. Like we always talk about school stress, stress culture both at college and just in high school. Like students being so stressed out at high school. So I think that's not what I feel the goal of education should be. I think something that is not emphasized enough at school is just mental health and happiness and teaching students how to manage stress, how to be happy, how to not feel like they have no options left. And I think when we see things like that happening all over the world, that to me indicates a major problem that needs to be addressed. And then we need to see kind of a change more towards valuing mental health, valuing counseling resources, valuing teaching students methods for dealing with their negative emotions. And in fact, at our own high school it's mental health week right now. So that's what Davis Senior High School is doing right now. We're going on that approach and we're trying to make sure that our students they're well-rounded, not just cognitively in the classroom and what they can memorize for a test but as human beings, that they're healthy, that they're happy and that that is the pathway to learning. So yeah, and again, I think that none of us up here, right? None of us are education experts, you know, none of us would. For sure, yeah. We're just high schoolers. Yes, teens on topic. Teens on topic. Teens on topic, yeah. Exactly, yeah, not experts on topic. But again, I do think that there's a lot that we can bring to the table from our own perspectives from what we think about the education system. So, you know, I'm so hesitant to look at the China model and to say right or wrong, you know, because the fact is it isn't experts on topic, you know? We just don't know, right? And honestly, I don't know if anyone does. You know, I don't know if there is a right answer. I think that both systems have their positives and their negatives and that neither system is perfect. So, moving ahead in America, I think that that is gonna be a question for our Department of Education, for our government, for Betsy DeVos, you know, what is our goal? You know, what do we wanna accomplish? And once we know that, then we can start executing how do we accomplish that? So I'd like to end today's segment by talking locally. So we've looked at, you know, broad education reform, but let's talk about Davis Senior High School. What do we think could be better? And how do we think we could get there? Sure, yeah. So sort of like I said, I think the whole issue of just a campus stress culture is super pervasive at Davis High School. I think it's really sad when you see students who just feel like everyone else at Davis is so smart. They all have like A pluses and like 10 AP classes. It's ridiculous. And students feel like I can't do that. And the reality is that it really, I don't think anybody should be doing that. I think people shouldn't feel like they're required to take a bunch of really hard classes and do super well in all of them, because that's not what high school age students should need to be doing. That's not the way that humans are made. Humans aren't made to live a life of extreme stress due to some tests and like AP chemistry or whatever. Like people shouldn't need to worry about that kind of thing. That's just like, that's my point of view that that's not the kind of culture that we wanna be promoting at school. And I think with all kind of cultural issues, it's really tough to have a concrete solution. Like it's not anyone's fault. It's not the school administration's fault. It's not even teachers fault it. And it's not really students fault it. It's just more, we need to have a culture change. We need a lot of individuals both at the administration level, at the teacher level, and at the student level to just decide that we don't want this and that we want a culture where people are happy and still trying hard in school and learning, obviously. But also just valuing how they feel and valuing more than just what grade they get on their transcript at the end of the day. I think back to what you said about change. I think the biggest issue in the education system, America and China as you used it as an example is that we don't encourage or really entertain the idea that change is possible. I mean, when you're working, like even in Davis when you're working through those grades, yeah, like you get better and you learn more complicated stuff but then applying for colleges. It's like this grade is final, this A is final. It's, and I have no proof that I've gotten better even if I have. And colleges will not consider any proof that I've gotten better. It's like, I feel like we really need to encourage this idea that people can change both in academics and as people because I feel like we don't, I feel like we don't acknowledge that enough. And it's like, oh, these people that are managing to take six AP classes, all that stuff. I mean, if you want to work towards that and that's all, and yeah, if you want to work towards that then you can change to become that. They didn't immediately become that. They work towards that. And so, yeah, I feel like change is heavily overlooked or it's like this is, this grade is final, this grade is final, my SAT score, ACT score. Like that's final and I feel like that's just not right. That's not how we should see ourselves is these final numerical values on a piece of paper. Yeah, definitely. I think for me, I would say in full seriousness bring back recess. I think going off of what those interviewees said, I think kids need time to play, including high schoolers. So bring back recess and let us play. Well, that's all our time for today. So thank you guys for joining. I've been your host, Cedric Hughes, and this was Teens on Topic.