 What business leaders do you most respect and why are you going to get me in trouble? I mean, I respect business leaders that incredibly productive and innovative and in January enormous results. And, you know, in the past, you know, I've talked about the fact that I really my Jack Welsh, although I got, I got at least one email saying that I completely misunderstood Jack Welsh. You know, I was completely wrong about him, but I thought he was the former CEO of GE, I mean former long time ago, CEO of GE. So I really had a lot of respect for him. I sort of speak a few times, I mean, on video and I've seen, I've seen some of his books that are good. I think his leadership principles are good, good principles. So I'm a fan of his. But, you know, I'd say over the last 15 years I'm mainly a fan of the tech guys, right? So I think, I think I'm a huge fan of Bill Gates. I think he's super smart. I think all these conspiracy theories right now going around. I don't know if you guys have seen them about him wanting to take over the world or what he wanted to poison us all with his new vaccine about him wanting. He's, he's, he wants to shrink the population of the world so the vaccine's going to kill a certain percentage of people all this garbage. It's just horrific because I think, I think while he's wrong philosophically and politically, while all these CEOs, most of these CEOs are wrong philosophically and politically. They are brilliant producers. They are brilliant managers. They have extraordinary minds. And Bill Gates approaches a problem. He approaches it in a first handed way like a business problem or even a philanthropy problem if you follow his philanthropy. It's first handed. It's original. He trusts to solve problems. He's not looking for government for solutions. He's trying to solve problems. So, I think, I think, you know, I'm a huge fan have been for a long time of Steve Jobs. I mean, until he died. I, you know, I'm a long time Apple user and really dedicated and Steve Jobs. I just think his arc through the industry has been fascinating. And, you know, I, if you know, I put up a debate today. You know, a few hours ago between me and a socialist, and it's a socialist who's written a lot of our tech. And he despised Steve Jobs. And if you watch the, if you watch the debate, he's like, Oh, Steve Jobs yelled at his employees. I said, I wish I could be an employee of Apple just as Steve Jobs could yell at me. I mean, how cool would that be? I mean, he was he was a true genius and a perfectionist and a value or real value. I mean, I haven't really followed the path, you know, kind of the trajectory of the Google, the initial Google guys, but they obviously did spectacularly well. I admire a lot of the venture capitalists. I have a huge respect for, you know, the old line, you know, Sequoia capital and people who work there and them in business. I'm sure I'm missing people. Ken Mollis. Yeah, I mean, Ken Mollis is both, I mean, in acquaintance, I know him quite well and, and has done a phenomenal job. You know, is John Allison, of course, who I missed. How could I miss John? I mean, John Allison, who was a COBBT and, and took it from a little farm bank in Wilson, North Carolina to the 10th now, I think the sixth largest bank in the United States. I'd say so financial institution in the United States out of when some Salem so Ken Mollis who built his own investment bank started it in the midst of the great recession in 2008 2009 and has built it into this independent fantastic and Ken and John examples of two CEOs who have the right philosophy who, who, you know, I don't know if Ken wants to be known as an object of this but it's about as true as it goes right about as close as it gets. He's spoken at all events he's spoken about the influence at the shrug has had on it you know I'm admire of people like Lars Christiansen in Denmark, who started Saxo Bank and built that up again somebody who was, who is heavily heavily influenced by by by And then I you know I've met a ton of hedge fund guys who are brilliant with spectacular I've met a lot of just, you know, old line businessman who just started with nothing and built a business and it might not be splashy like Apple or Microsoft or Google or something but it's it's they've done all the hard work they've created value and they care about every little element within their work. So there's a there's a lot of those America's filled with with medium sized businessmen who have really succeeded to become millionaires and more who have built up and I've met a lot of people like that. You know that's the one upside of fundraising generally I hate fundraising, but the one upside of fundraising for the Institute was you got to meet a lot of business people. And it's always a pleasure, you know whatever field they are, but the Giants I mean the Giants are historically a huge fan of Rockefeller of Carnegie and a JP Morgan the banker and of course how could I forget. Michael milken, who was one of the great financiers and not just not just a genius financier but somebody who inspired his employees, Ken mollus was an employee of Michael milken as was Leon black who today is a gazillionaire private equity guy, as was so many successful people today, what employees of Michael milken inspired them, and he worked unbelievable hours and his team, he had a team and they really functioned as a team. And it's, you know, you read about it it's truly inspiring and all of them, other people around him went out to have for that phenomenal careers. So, America's, it's amazing how many great businessmen they are. And one of the tragedies I think in objectivism and among objectivist is, there's a Marxist tendency of among objectivist, you know, Marxist and leftist thing that everything is politics. Everything is politics. So if you if you talk to Marxist art is about politics there's no metaphysical epistemology there's no moral message and art it's all political everything is pure political relationships. Every aspect of life is so political I so they can't judge a human being separate from his politics and there's too much of this in the objectivist movement we can look at somebody like, like, you know, even even even what's a Zuckerberg at Facebook. And what a phenomenal job he's done creating a platform that, you know, half the population of the earth enjoys. And you can't, they can't separate that these geniuses are productive person from. Oh my God he's a lefty. You know, it's not. I don't judge people by their politics. I judge people by the character and one of the most important aspects of character is productiveness. I'll just quickly throwing in around I talked to a perspective investor the other day, he was saying not a flashy person but a woman now in her late 50s. Quick story, she came to the country in her 20s didn't even speak English. She became a doctor the long story is worth. She's a property portfolio now worth $10 million. And she's a successful doctor. So she's just, you know, again, not a flashy thing but truly an American success story. The American dream over and over and over again that it really gives me hope for the future. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And, you know, you remind me of a business woman. I don't think I've ever met a person by spoke to a couple of times on the phone. I don't know if you've ever heard of dollar more dollar more was the first woman to have a seat on the New York Stocks New York Stock Exchange. I think that's true. And she was she was she came from nothing. She was a Muriel Siebert. No, so maybe I'm so it's still dollar more but maybe she's not the first woman. All right, sure. She was. She came from nothing South Carolina, what you would call white trash, right. And she, she became very senior and Wall Street she became a and she she married, she married the billionaire with that was kind of an Indian American Indian name like photos. Anyway, she is at this phenomenal success. I mean the business school at the University of South Carolina is named after just an amazing woman and went back to South Carolina as invested a lot in South Carolina, particularly, particularly trying to invest in trying to get you know, kids from poor families who have talent to get them to help them, you know, to increase their opportunities so there's so many good stories about amazing American entrepreneurs and American business people. I mean, Jonathan's right, you meet them and some many of them are immigrants many of them were poor when they grew up. I mean, real, the old, the 19th century style bootstrapping yourself succeeding still exists. It still happens in this country. And it's, and it's, it's tragic that we kind of demean that and particularly the way we think about immigrants. What we need today, what I call the new intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think, meaning any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, women or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life, and who does not want to give in to today's cult of despair, cynicism and impotence, and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages, and to the role of the collectivist. 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