 May the 20th, it's Wednesday, it's 11 o'clock. That can mean only one thing, it's Trump week. I'm Tim Apachele, your host. And today, like every other week, we have so many things on the plate to talk and discuss. Let's just jump right into it. The title of the show is, Vaccine, No Vaccine, We're Back. And so is the death toll climbing with COVID deaths. This is a title that basically indicates and implies that opening the economy may be more important than the rising death toll in this country. There is a balance. It is important to open the economy. No one disputes that. The question is, what is the balance? What is the proper way to forge ahead, to get people back to work and open the economy? But at the same time, stop the cases, prevent the cases, and more importantly, stop the deaths of Americans. We're at 92,000 deaths. And for me, the way I perceive this whole problem is, the economy is more important. Donald Trump's reelection is more important than the deaths of many, many Americans. I wanna discuss this with our guests. Winston Welch is here with us today. Stephanie Dalton and Cynthia Sinclair. Welcome everybody. Hey, hi. Aloha. Winston, let's go right to you. There's been many discussions about how one opens up this economy. We know that the many of these states, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, they're not necessarily opening the economy as per the administrative guidelines on consecutive weeks of declining cases before things are opening up, be it bowling alleys, be it restaurants, be it hair salons, you name it, tattoo parlors, they're just opening up. And we're seeing on the news, what I would call just blatant disregard for wearing masks and people crowded together in restaurants and bars. And will this cause a second rise, a second spike in cases and deaths? So what do you think the balance is and where do you think we are on this issue, Winston? You know, it's a good question and it's obviously the question of the day on everyone's mind is how do you strike the balance? You've got masks unemployment, the worst here in Hawaii of everywhere. And yet everyone here wears mask. If you're not wearing a mask out in public, basically considered a pariah or a sociopath because we realized there's value in wearing the mask. That's just like a no-brainer. But you have other folks that are saying yes, but we got to reopen this economy sooner than later because the risk of deaths and suicides and drug overdoses and spousal abuse and all of that, that the social ill coming from folks not having their work and something to do and contribute meaningfully is going to be worse of an impact than it opened up the economy. So I can understand that. And then they're looking at information out of Sweden that said they didn't have as strict of conditions as say Norway did, but their death rates are comparable. I'm not sure that we have a full picture on that or not, but obviously with the states, it's a free for all. It is do what you want to do and let's see how it comes up in a couple of few weeks. And here in Hawaii, we're at one end of the spectrum where we have no new cases yesterday, well, one in the big island, but other states, we're gonna see mass surges and what that means and how we're gonna respond to it is the question of the day how we are. Let me ask you this, what goes through your mind when you watch the news and you see video footage of people gathering shoulder to shoulder in big, large groups, more than 10, you know, they're not all living in one same household and there's either no mass or if there are some people have them, some people don't and they're in very close proximity. What goes through your mind when you see that? Winston? Oh, I'm sorry, you know what? Here, because we're here in Hawaii, it doesn't make sense to us because we have been following the guidelines of our health department, of our governor, even the CDC, which says wear a mask in public. This prevents spread of this illness. So for us, we don't understand that but from the other perspective where they say, no, this is against my freedom. I don't wanna wear a mask. We need herd immunity. There's a completely different perspective there that we're not embracing in Hawaii and that I think we're fine not to embrace, let's see what happens in the other states and we can make decisions down the road but there's no sense in putting everyone at risk here before we've seen, so maybe some massive surge that's popping up. Unfortunately, I think we're gonna be seeing that. Okay, well, thank you Winston. Stephanie, same question. Do you think the fact that people across the country, sometimes in these southern states are refusing to wear a mask because it's a bravado thing that Donald Trump also is not wearing a mask and it's a political statement versus a scientific concern about the spread of COVID-19? Well, I think you include, I mean, among those multiple choices, I think you've hit them, but people are so sensitive to being boss around. I mean, it's really strange but I think that they feel infringement on their rights. Does that mean they wanna make the decision on their own? I wish they would, but I just feel that there's some attitudes and beliefs that are driving a lot of this irrational behavior because the option, and also I believe there's late and other stuff going on, maybe even this egocentrism or whatever it's not gonna happen to them in a way that might be happening and that they identified impacted groups are not theirs. So in addition to the resistance to being told what to do even by medical experts, there's a belief that it's not gonna happen to them because they identified impacted at risk, highly at risk groups are not there. Okay, is Donald Trump trying to create a new political strategy and his concern with reelection is paramount of course. Therefore, damn their torpedoes full speed ahead, vaccine or no vaccine, we're back. That's the quote. Is this Donald Trump's overt attempt to get the economy numbers start to roll up again and therefore see an increase in his polls and therefore hopefully his reelection? To what degree are we in that environment? I don't know, I think we're there. I mean, he's absolutely there and he himself is getting irrational, I think, and he jerks. Is this apparent to the independent voters out there? I mean, obviously those who follow Trump will do and say whatever he wishes. The Democrats, I think it's apparent of what's going on here. I think they see what's going on here. What do you think the independents are thinking on this topic? The independents tend to be thoughtful and mindful and deliberate in their thinking about where to invest in their government. I'm hopeful that they might see that, but on the other hand, we have these huge issues of beliefs and values and also it's what that NIMBY thing, not in my backyard. All right. Even if I'm in a state that's impacted like New York and I'm up in Albany, hey, NIMBY, I'm not, let's get on with it. It's not for me. Gotcha. I think it's really fragmenting in that way across the country, especially with the lack of an overarching policy for us to all relate to. All right. Let me jump to Cynthia on this same question. Cynthia, what are your views on it and what do you think's really going on here? Well, I think he is absolutely trying to commandeer the whole entire narrative. And we have some really good examples of that. There was the main data chief in Florida that was ousted from her position because she refused to change the numbers and to alter the numbers of cases and so they fired her. We know that he's threatened Michigan, that if they don't stop mailing out the at home ballots and the boat from home ballots, that he's going to cut all federal funding to their... Okay, we're gonna talk about that next. Good point. I'm glad you're bringing that up. We'll talk about that next, keep going. Okay. Well, I mean, just to threaten that is so incredible that as to me, it is the same thing as what he did with Ukraine when he says, you know, I'm not gonna give you your money until you go and investigate Joe Biden and his son. And so he's doing the same thing to Michigan. And it worked with Ukraine, right? So now he thinks it's gonna work with Michigan. And I think he's gonna have a little bit of a different response here in the home land than he did in regards to another country. I'm hoping anyway that people will be more up in arms about this. All right, well, since we're on the topic, I'm gonna read a quote. He basically said that Michigan is, this has been done by a rogue secretary of state. And that secretary of state actually got on Twitter and said, her name was Jocelyn Benson. She said, we sent applications, not ballots, just like the GOP colleagues in Iowa, Georgia, Nebraska and West Virginia. So what Donald Trump is basically doing is trying to set the stage, if we connect the dots to try to ban all mail-in ballots, which many states already have for elections. And if you follow this, you'll know if the numbers start going against Donald Trump either in the polls and certainly close to election day, you can see this as his springboard to say, see, I told you this was a rig election and create all sorts of disruption, if you will, in the American voting population. I can see it a mile away. Now, maybe my theory isn't well-founded here, but he did it in 2016 saying it was a rigged election. Guess what, it was a rig election in his favor. He had the help of the Russians. He had all sorts of help from WikiLeaks and the above mentioned. Winston, what are your feelings about the recent threats that Donald Trump is levying against Michigan and Nevada about their attempts to protect the voting population from COVID-19 spread? And they want to put in some mail-in ballots and Donald Trump is threatening federal funds from them falsely claiming it's illegal for them to do so. This breaking news just came out this morning. What's your thoughts about it, Winston? Yeah, it's scary. Any attempt of voter suppression in this nation is wrong. It doesn't matter whether it's to protect people from COVID or if you're suppressing minority population. It doesn't matter. We don't do that. This is America. We want each person and each voter to get this right, to have a chance to vote what that voter wants to vote. And when you're prohibited, because you have to stand in line, you may perish because you're trying to vote rather than voting through the mail. This is nonsensical. This is an enigma to a free and democratic society. Well, it seems to me now's the time to address it. I mean, don't wait till August. Don't wait till September to say, oh, we really do have a problem about how we're gonna conduct this vote for the general election of 2020. It seems to me now is the time for all these state, secretaries of state of each state to get on the same page about what they are and aren't going to do and called Trump's bluff about the fact that it's illegal and more importantly, that he's not in a position to hold up federal funds to any state based on their willingness to have a mail-in ballot or not. Oh, yeah, they will blackmail any state whether it's for an employment benefits forcing workers back to work. We saw that from, I think it was Steve Mnuchin today saying, if you don't go back to work, you won't get your benefits. Well, what if your workplace is really hazardous? You see this in the vote, voting, why would, I get it, he doesn't want, he thinks this is gonna be Democrats voting, but it's anybody who just wants to vote from the convenience and comfort of his or her own. Now Trump himself has used absentee voting. Yeah, and he says that it's fraudulent. Well, then why are we using it with the military? Just in the military ever, right? It's ridiculous and it's transparent and we see right through it. And it's, everybody says, when are the people gonna rise up? When are they gonna say enough? Every single day is a new outrage with this sort of stuff. So we've become not immune to it, but exhausted and where does it end? It's not daily, it's hourly. They assault on our values and our democracy in this administration. All right, thank you, Winston. Stephanie, connect the dots for us on this one. Where is this threat leading us to? And where will it end? And what will Donald Trump either accomplish? Or will this be his demise with independent voters and even voters of the GOP party thinking this is a bridge too far? What connected dots for us on this one? I think that the governor of Colorado, if you know his name, say it, but the governor of Colorado, is very perplexed at any of this confusion or lack of interest in the voting by mail because Colorado has done it forever. So there are numbers of states, what? There are five or six states that have been on this voting by mail for many years and have it down pat. And so I think it's time, as Trump has given all this responsibility to the governors in the categories relating to the protecting the people and saving us from the virus. Let's have these governors who already have this system in place get on with some leadership. I think that's a group made for helping every state get to the place where we can make this happen. And if we have to make it happen somehow on state funds or whose funds, I don't know, but if Trump turns off the post office money, we're not gonna have any mail. So he could easily do that because that has been a problem going along and it's very worrisome, he could do that. Now there's one way to save the post office and that's that they were required to cover all the pensions up, the forever's who weren't even born yet that were gonna work for the post office. They had to put all their money into a great big pension bank and that is a big bunch of money that if necessary could be tapped to keep them running for quite a ways. Cause nobody else- I don't think Congress is gonna let them get away with shutting down the post office. I just don't. Maybe that's just me though. That's where we are. I think that's good. And I think we ought to be paying attention to that. As I've said, he's doing nothing but shiny things all over the place now. We can't do anything about it. Oh, we're finding out that everything's been rigged, including the Mueller report, there's been, but Barr was into that two seconds after he was elected, meeting with the attorney for the Barr report. Everything has been eroded. So- All right. Do it. I agree and we'll see how this one's gonna pan out but this is walking over that bridge, a bridge too far and we'll see how either this is challenged legally or by Congress. If he continues up with this, Cynthia are gonna change subjects here because Stephanie just mentioned shiny object, a distraction, and I can't think of a bigger distraction, a bigger shinier object than the admission from Donald Trump that he is using and has been using for almost two weeks, hydrochloroquine. What a bombshell this has been, despite what the studies say that hydrochloroquine is not a preventative nor is it a cure to COVID-19, yet Donald Trump goes to his doctor and says, what do you think? And the doctor says, well, what do you think? Go ahead. Is this a distraction or is this now a strategy to once again politicize getting the economy back to work and using hydrochloroquine as a means and a method to get people back to work so that they don't have fear as they enter the workplace, particularly in the meat packing processing plants or environments like that. Your thoughts on this whole mess? Well, I have since read a lot of things that he is putting out the word, well, maybe not him particularly, but the word is going out to Republicans to say that you're taking the medicine, even if you're not. And the scariest thing is that they're putting out on Facebook and Twitter recipes to make hydroxychloroquine in your own home by steeping different fruit skins. Oh, that's a perfect storm, isn't it? Oh, my God. So I have a personal anecdote on this whole thing too. When he first started pushing hydroxychloroquine with that, what have you got to lose line? My pharmacy sent me a notice saying that I have lupus, so I take it all the time. So I got a message saying that it was on a three month back order. Right, I remember you telling me that. Right, and then after the VA study that said it's not useful, it's even dangerous, don't do it, then I got another letter or message from my pharmacy saying, oh, they have it now. So now that we're in this new stage, I wonder if I'm gonna get another message saying, sorry, the medicine that keeps you alive, you can't get it anymore because these crazy Republicans think it's gonna work on COVID, which we already know it doesn't. A French study said no, a VA study said no, we've had no positive. Well, are we gonna see an adverse reaction from people that blindly followed what Trump does and what Trump says? I remember very early on, the couple that killed themselves by using a chloroquine that was designed for fist tanks and the cleaning of fist tanks. Are we gonna see unfortunate either illnesses or deaths as a result of Donald Trump blindly playing Dr. Trump, not President Trump? And to what degree do we have this kind of problem? Oh my gosh, to the 10th degree because absolutely people are gonna die from this. The people that can't get their medicine, the people that need this medicine and can't get it are gonna be at a higher risk to death and illness. Yeah, but the problem is we won't know it because it won't be diagnosed as a cause of death. Exactly, and then the people that are taking it are gonna think, oh, well, I'm fine. I won't get COVID now and are gonna go out there and get it so it's gonna raise the death rates of people directly from the COVID too. So I think it's gonna definitely Greek habit across the board. Okay, thank you very much Cynthia. Winston, your thoughts on this one real quick. We'll get so many things to discuss. I know we're not gonna have time, but your thoughts on this Winston? You know, it's why take a medicine for a fake disease that doesn't exist? That's, you know, that was my first thought is why are you doing this? And if you believe in the disease and you should be wearing the mask, just because your own government says to wear a mask, it's a good symbol for people. It cuts down spread of the disease. Well, Winston, I'm sorry to take issue with you but you happen to be using a path of logic in these comments of yours. And Cynthia also- Since something that's absent from this administration, I think. That's right, and Cynthia also recommended Republicans. I'm sorry to say, there are no more Republicans, Cynthia. That is a vanished species. The only one that I can see right now who garners respect for me is Mitch Romney. We don't agree on everything, but he is an olden days Republican who says, wait a minute, the emperor doesn't have any clothes. This is wrong. What he is saying is wrong for our people as a whole. Otherwise people have been so duped. When we have our truth and reconciliation after all of this is gone, I don't know when that's gonna be. And the realization comes down that we have been so misled and denigrated as a nation. Okay, Winston, is this a strategy of Donald Trump or was he just fear-based? Cause this all took place about the time when his personal assistant became down with COVID symptoms. So is this fear-based and something he was concerned about? Or is this a strategy that I just can't quite see? It's hard to say. Every Trump family member has investments in the company that makes it, but they probably have investment in every drug ever made. But not to be too cynical, but it's probably he's thinking, actually this is dangerous and you guys wash your hands if you all have to wear a mask and I'm gonna spray you with Lysol before you look at me. But I don't know, Cynthia's got some more insight that I do, because it's bizarre. The whole thing is so bizarre. Cynthia's waving, but I gotta go to Stephanie on this. Stephanie, wait, okay. Cynthia, I see you waving, go ahead. One quick thing, I think it's all about money. I think he invested in this medicine and now he's stuck with it. Well, he even addressed that. He said, a lot of people think I own stock in this company. So he proactively addressed that. The answer never came out whether he does or doesn't. I suspect that's too obvious. He's not that ignorant or naive that people couldn't follow up and find out if he does or doesn't. So I'm not buying it, but maybe who knows. Stephanie, let's go to Stephanie on this. Stephanie, your thoughts. Thank you. Following that reasoning, your reasoning, this is nothing but another grandstand, okay? Who knows? I don't think he's taking it. I don't know if he owns it, he might, but and that's not gonna make it. But he is, he's lying and he's only throwing out another bouncing ball to all of the followers in the playground. We're all in this pen with him and he's the bully guy and we don't have any way to counter it. We're all, maybe he's like an eighth grader and we're all second, third graders or something is the analogy. But he is only gonna throw out whatever will distract you from the fact that he has killed 100,000 people and it's gonna get worse. We'll be at that number by a week and a half. We're at 92,000 right now, 92,000 deaths. I see nothing but an obtuse reaction to 92,000 Americans dying. He called him, you know, when doctors and nurses were coming down and he said, I watched him rush head into the bullets and what a beautiful thing, what a beautiful thing. They're rushing into bullets because they didn't have enough protection. They didn't have enough PPEs, they didn't have enough protective shields on their face and he thinks it's a beautiful thing. How obtuse, how numb, how lack of humanity can one be to make comments like that? I just don't see it. Even asserting that life is not that valuable, there is a TV, there is a video that's out. It's been shown on the major networks, which shows all of these Republicans saying their stance on abortion and the precious human life, et cetera, et cetera, and then followed up by the clip on this. Like, you know, there's some times where there have to be some problem taken care of and it's utterly astounding. Yeah, you're right, there are hypocrites on this issue and if I'm 65 or older, you don't even have to be 65 or older. How do I think the president thinks about my health and safety and well-being? I've got to put a question on that. And by the way, his poll numbers are dropping for that demographic. His numbers are sliding on the demographics of 65, not just the African-American population, but also white America. His numbers are sliding because they're not quite certain if he really cares about them or that much. He just wants the economy opened up. Oh, yeah, absolutely. We only got a couple of minutes. We only got a couple of minutes. I'm going back to Winston. But he doesn't care about the economy either, Tim. It's not any of that, he just cares about him. It doesn't really matter if the economy sinks or it grows as long as he's kept in power by hook or crook. Okay, Winston, a couple of minutes left. Your thoughts about the firing of the Inspector General, Steve Lenick. He's fired four different IGs here in the last four weeks. Seems to be always on a Friday night. This is over the investigation of Mike Pompeo and his possible interference with the arms sales to the Saudis and or now is hosting 24, what they call Madison dinners, inviting friends and corporate friends, potential donors and using the taxpayer's dollar to fund such lavish dinners. Your thoughts about this and the firing of Steve Lenick. Donald Trump did it based on Mike Pompeo's recommendation. Your thoughts. One more level of accountability gone and no one will do anything, the Senate won't do anything. I love the stories coming out. It was about making dinner reservations and picking up the dry cleaning. No, that's not what it was about. We know that one for sure. That was not what the investigation was on. Secretary of State should have dinners. Should have dinners with foreign leaders with. Yeah, I agree. But look, we got NASCAR Dale Earnhardt. We got the CEO from Chick-fil-A. We've got Susan B. Anthony Group. That's an anti-abortion group. We got Laura Ingram at these dinners. How do these people have any connections to diplomacy and the State Department? Well, if you wanted to know the answer, you should ask an Inspector General, but I'm sorry, he's fired replaced by a loyalist described loyalist of Mike Pence. So I don't think we have them before coming. Okay, thank you. It's a seconds to go. Quick prediction on next week. What are we gonna see? More corruption. We're into corruption now. If you didn't understand it about what was the third world corrupt places that we've watched all our lives go down in flames or not or endure a 60 years of some strong man. This is where we are. This is what we're learning is what corruption really is and also disestablishmentarianism. So that is fascinating. And now it's happening to our precious nation. Stephanie, you get the last word on that. We're out of time. I wanna thank Winston. I wanna thank you, Stephanie. Cynthia, I wanna thank you very much for this week's Trump Week. I'm Tim Appichell, your host. We'll see you next week, Wednesday at 11 o'clock. Aloha, everyone.