 Hello my definition friends, how are you doing? I'm so, so happy to be back for a new year of definition show. So that is our first show of 2022. So I hope you all had a great break. It was already a long time ago since we are in February, but I hope you relax and that you rest well. I took a three week PTO, so I'm full of energy and I'm so, so happy to be back. So a lot of people already in the chat, I see that Sun is there and Sun is also saying, happy, happy open source day. Yeah, we will talk about that there. And we have Maximilian, who is from India. Hey, really from life, from run up, from snow, come conference, awesome from the hotel. She had an awesome talk today where she was dressed like a unicorn to talk about death row. I really need to watch it. No, it was not recorded. But anyway, we will see that later. Anyway, today my guest, I will bring it on stage in a few seconds. I'm really happy. Had a lot of fun with him during conferences. You probably remember that. But today we will talk about open source Java cloud, Java in the cloud. And more, how can open source help you to boost your career? For me, it really was the changing point for my career. So maybe for Ottavio as well, we will ask him. So without any wait, let me bring him on stage. There he is. Hello. Hello, Sebastian. How are you? I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm so glad to be here. Hello, son. Happy open source day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He comes in, son. Yeah. And Sonny was working for a long time for Eclipse J. And Eclipse and son also always made me son. The Eclipse from the son. Okay, bad joke. But anyway, sorry son. We have Alp, Alp, Alp from Turkey, John Jero and Andes from Columbia. Wow, awesome. I love this show because we have people all around the world. Hey, Ottavio, I always ask this to my guest. Introduce yourself. Take the time you want. The stage is yours. Okay. My name is Hatha. Ness. We talk at once, right? I don't know in five seconds. My name is Ottavio Santana. I'm from Brazil. Right now, I'm living in Portugal. I met Sebastian a couple of conferences where we were the singers and back vocal and play some guitar sometimes. Right now, I'm living in a small city that's Italy. People usually ask me why because I enjoy conference. It basically moved to Lyria because Portugal is like a middle of the earth, right? Lyria is a little closer to the airport, the international airport. So this way I can go faster to German, can go easily to US and Brazil. So basically, I enjoy conference enough. I love to do presentation. That's why I decided to be almost the middle of the earth. Wow. That's crazy. That's conference driven living. So we have conference driven development. You did conference driven living. Yeah. It's awesome. Yes. I mean, that's a nice opportunity to learn. A lot of people ask me why do I enjoy conference and basically that's an opportunity to learn. I remember my first time that I went to Java one and I stayed the whole time the hot garden because I was able to learn about Java with the Java committers. I remember the time that somebody helped me to do my first commit and the hot garden, that was amazing. I had a class about how everything works internally on that hot garden. It's impossible to have this kind of private class for free, right? Exactly. The presentation, the person was able to go deep and show code, go deep, and I was able to do exactly the class that I want to. It's like a private presentation or private class. Oh, yeah. Like you say, having the opportunity to meet the committers of projects and just sit at the same table of them and just work on a pull request with them and discuss stuff. People don't realize the chance that we have to do that. Yeah, I agree. Let's talk about, since you talk about hot garden, usually you work on open source projects for that and since it's open source day, let's discuss a bit about open source. Do you remember the first contribution that you did to open source? Oh, yes. I remember that. It was a project in the beginning that nobody cares. At that time, it was delivery from Facebook to Apache Foundation. Okay. It was a database that it was infamous, especially because at that time, a lot of people were using SQL database. No SQL means something like no SQL. And yes, if I were able to link the points, I'm talking about Cassandra. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was amazing because my English is bad, but it was worse, much, much worse. And the Google translator today is perfect if you compare to five, seven years ago. It was amazing how I could communicate with people because at that time I could not speak English very well. And I was a developer Google translator driven. Basically, everything that you do to ask, I need to do the double check with Google translator. And then before Cassandra, I tried a couple of times to do a comic and Linux score, but it was hard because a lot of people thought my favorite language is Java, but it's not true. My favorite language is C++. Oh, really? Yes. And I tried the first, the first famous open source product that was Linux. I was refused. And then I tried the second biggest product that ran C++. That was Java. And I was welcome there. It was amazing. Yeah. People tried to help me. I remember open source community who tried to speak Portuguese. And to us, it's like it's difficult, but it's normal. We are French and Brazilian to learn a second language. Yeah. When an American learned a second language, well, it's a mind-blowing moment. And a American person started to learn Portuguese to help me to do my first commit. Wow. Yes. The community is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And then I met Pozando and more and more committers in the OpenJDK products. Yeah. And then I went to several products and then I went to specifications. Yeah. Yeah. So that if people you know what let me while we are talking let me share your your Twitter account because on your Twitter account there's also the link to your personal website. And on your personal website there's a lot of stuff all what you have done all your awards. It's really impressive. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The dukes. Oh yeah. Maybe we can talk about the dukes or award because maybe people don't know exactly what a duke award is. So can you tell us a bit about a duke? Okay. Probably if you have no idea about duke you probably saw movies, right? A movie has a award and an Oscar. And a duke award is exactly the same idea. I'm not sure if somebody can double check that. The people who create the dukes, the Oscar statue is the same company who created the duke award. Really? Yes. That's some crazy. Let me try to take here for a second. Yeah. For a second. Whoa. Whoops. Oh, there he is. It's the same material as a duke award, right? So this one here. And let's say with me here for a couple of moments. Yeah. And it's a nice award because it's hard to receive. It was a community effort. And in a couple of three years we received several community programs. For example, Eclipse with Microfile, Jakarta EE. I received this one here from Eclipse. It's hard to receive but you enjoy it because it's not just you. It's the whole community that you are representing. Exactly. When you receive it, you represent the whole community that has worked on the project. Yeah. That's nice. I also remember my first time that I went to Java. Because my English was terrible. Terrible, terrible, terrible. And I was I went to my first Java with actually an argument. I'm not sure if he is here right now. And I went to... He has a meeting but he will join maybe later. We went to Mexico and the U.S. So it should do to two custom process. We took like two hours in each process, so four hours. And my first presentation was terrible because I tried to memorize everything and I was scared of two moments of the presentation or two situations. Situation number one, everybody does not understand me. That was a big loss to me. Situation number two, everybody was able to understand me and do questions. So I was in a lose and lose situation because if nobody understand me, if everybody understand me to make more questions I'm not able to answer because I need to memorize. And it was funny because remember that my first time that I went to Starbucks again I need to memorize everything. I need to go there and I want croissant chocolate, let's put a line and then next, next, next, next and then it was me. And then I said, hey, hello, I want croissant chocolate. And they attended say something quickly that I have no idea what he said at that time. And then, okay, sorry, could you say again? And then quickly again. Quickly again. And then I look behind me and we had a huge line. And then oh my gosh, what should I do? What should I go? And then I did the thing that I believe everybody did in your life when you started to study English. I just said yes to everything. The question was about to pay by credit card or by cash and then say yes to here or to go, yes war or go, yes. And then I received a thing completely different that I want to. I expected a crushed chocolate and then I received some sea morals to it, something like that. That was the terrible moment and so fun sometime. Yeah, yeah. We all had this moment and the thing is, as you said once you embrace the community but your English will improve by itself because well, you go to conferences, you party with friends, you have to give talks so it will improve over the time. That's fine because that time I could see my needs terrible but I could see that I need to improve my English to communicate well with more people to break down the silos and I don't know if Carla is here but every presentation that I usually do I usually put a slide about break down the silos because to me, software is more than the code is people to people from people. The communication is the highest point of your career. It doesn't matter if you want to be a manager an actor, a distinguished engineer, you must focus on communication and that's why I decided to learn more language. I went to Spanish, Italian and then French. Yes. We can switch over to French now for that. Let me know if you will. Well there's at least one that will understand us but I'm just looking because people are joining from everywhere. I see from Canada, Tunisia or maybe Shakthib would understand us from Tunisia. A lot of people speak French there. Go to Guatemala. That's really cool and Maximilian is asking if you want to learn Cantonese. Do you want to learn that? In the future maybe because the hardest thing about language is not to learn but to keep because you need to practice life otherwise you're going to lose you're going to lose visibility. I agree with that. That was some funny stories but what we can take away is what you said at the end is that the most important skills in our a lot of job but in IT is communication. As you said, it doesn't matter if you want to be an engineer an ops and dev advocate and manager communication is key because in the end, like you said it's only humans interacting together. We are using machines of course but in the end we are just humans. That's my point when I decided to go to university I decided to use to graduate as an engineer because I will go to become an engineer because I don't want to talk with people and that was my biggest mistake in my whole career because in the future I was able to see that we need to communicate. I want to become an engineer I need to teach people to become an engineer you need to share knowledge you need to share what you know you need to share ideas your architect solution you need to make clear points otherwise it's going to lose it's it's another good skill that we will learn in the open source community that's a good advice for open source so maybe what would be your advice if we keep just open source for someone that never did some open source do you have a top three of advices of tips on how someone could enter the open source community I know there's not just one answer but what are your tips my first advice is choose a product that you like to learn more for some reason because I don't know you like to create music something like that and join introduce yourself in the main list and then watch a little bit before do any kind of integration you can do review some answers some questions because you will be able to understand how this community works and then my secret to go quickly and become a committer is do whatever nobody wants to do and what is that documentation we are developers do not care about documentation right so go there read the documentation try to reproduce everything that is there and fix because some things might not be clear and and then go to the code do more tasks it's impossible to refuse more task over in the open source product okay you are going to refuse your task a moment why is more quality right it doesn't make sense and then you can go to more in the core for example can upgrade for example right now java java 17 and the jvm has api as well so you can help to move the whole jvm api to use java 17 I remember a commit that I did a long long time ago that's a huge amount of lines in the open JDK I believe that was 5000 lines in the open JDK and it was a replace between builder and swing buffer basically that time was java 8 and you need to replace right buffer to builder and the security api and the swing api and so on so because of that I was able to do a huge commit in the open JDK and it increased the performance if you are using security api in java just because of that yeah yeah that's a huge reward if you once you are your commit is integrated yes I remember also I did something really really silly for example right now we have a guarantee that a boolean has only two instance one to true or one to false basically what did I do I create a PR to avoid to do a new boolean so right now it's using boolean value off so right now it's using two in the jvm should have only two instance of boolean one to true another one to false and it was a small small change that increased the performance that allow me to go in the open JDK off for example yeah yeah yeah well I love everything that the first part is when you join a community take some time to feel how the community is to behave you learn the people how this one is really nice he has really strong opinion I must be careful with him but he seems nice but then he be careful I think that people don't want to do documentation writing test or sometimes just reporting bugs is also already yes it's a huge contribution as well so we can write articles write blog posts about any kind of technology and remember a lot of people relate contribution directly in the code but if you write an article it's amazing it's contribution and don't think only to the community think about yourself your life need to write documentation you need to write a report to your boss if you don't speak English that's amazing opportunity to you go and then use English practice English in your free time as Aurelia said practice practice and practice is the key so you can explore the open source word to help everybody and also take advance to yourself it's a win-win situation it could be it could be writing an article it could also do a screencast and put it on YouTube and do it in English that's advice I guess to people because it's not a live stream you can write a script and you can record several times and you can do and it can be only 5 minutes or 10 minutes and you write a script in English and then you do it in English you upload it and yeah it's also contribution and don't wait until you become perfect because there is no perfect situation there is no perfect pronunciation so everybody has their own accent so it reaches French, a Brazilian so the whole point is it must be understandable to everybody no way to become perfect look like American British if anybody is able to understand you go ahead and upload we come back to communication yeah and Sun is saying because Sun has contributed a lot to Eclipse J and other developer tools contributing to developer tools is really great you feel like it's improving your own coding productivity it's true because yeah I love it and Karn is asking if there is any special subject or general today in the show we are here we started to talk about open source about how to join the open source and maybe now we can let's talk a bit about Java because nobody C++ then this one is a good one that's an interesting one because you said your preferred language is C++ so you learned that or was it a joke or was it for real? no that's what's true I went to software engineer and C++ is a language closer to the machine and understandable in the high level or middle level of code level and then I found Java and I enjoyed Java because it's closer to C++ yeah right now I'm half Java I enjoy Go because it's close to C++ already will be happy because she loves Go and she writes a lot of articles about Go and REST because did I pronounce it well? REST oh yeah yeah you did REST did you try it out? because that's the new cool kid no I tried but I didn't like it I don't know if I'm old but I still enjoy the oriental rejected parading and I saw several articles about Java okay why did you should leave Java because object but object means amazing because yes it's complex to understand you study a little bit more but once you get there you code you'll be so fancy readable clean you're able to create split by layers tiers and everything thanks to package object and design partners yeah yeah yeah no no I agree I love Java as well people say yeah well you should leave Java or the other thing is Java is dying and I remember when I started working in 2004 people were already saying that Java is dying about Java so you mentioned Java 17 so you are following every release well every time that's a new release is out you try out all the new things you play with all the new features I usually jump between LTS and LTS in Java 17 the newest LTS in running but on production right now I just have Java 11 where we are looking to upgrade to Java 17 I believe in more two months two months okay and what are the features that you prefer in the new so it started with Java 15 17 though is it record sealed interfaces or multiline strings something like that multiline strings I hate so much because it's making impression that you are able to put strings and query with strings and I usually avoid that because especially to junior so there might be some SQL injection by mistake but you can put nice YAML content now but let's face it it's much better when you have this kind of your string outside the code you can read right now we have Eclipse Microfile configuration we have Spring configuration Microfile configuration why should I put a string inside my code I don't like this idea so what is the stuff that you like then I enjoy record it's a good one because I'm multiple and I'm able to create multiple transfer object easily instead of create a pub a final class and everything around it's short I'm lazy I love it just one line and you're done yes I enjoy that as well especially because it save more time save time I'm not sure I'm watching the discussion about true JPA support record or not I'm not sure about the discussion but it's like a a a fancy feature that probably we use I assume you have Java 17 okay and are there stuff that is not yet integrated but how it's called yes please leave Lombok retire this I hate it so much especially the data notation because it's it creates anemic model and every time that I saw add a data notation in somebody codes it's implies to some anemic model loose couple it's kind of thing try to avoid Lombok avoid Lombok let me treat that um and what about I don't remember the project which is not yet that will use these threads in an efficient way with fibers is a Panama yeah the Panama Panama is a virtual thread exactly yeah oh yeah okay it's a great feature I enjoy I'm watching the discussion around it especially because it's easier to create virtual threads or green threads if you are a Python developer the whole idea is set of I just have I native threads I able to create some similar threads on my JVM if you doubt the system operation knows about it yeah yeah and again we have trade-offs on that discussion always yeah yeah yeah because I know there's some discussion with the people that are working on the reactive and yes exactly so okay um it's lighter and that's a good transition for me speaking how to make Java more efficient Java and the cloud so do you are you do you use Kubernetes for instance yes unfortunately everybody does right now so you was it hard for you to learn or Kubernetes yes it's impossible to put that in production alone that's why I have a couple of products I have a couple of them working right now the innovation also I do some constant service and in this constant service we prefer to have a team to do the operations in this kind of thing because the developer is not it's not a good play to to handle the code and also the operation yeah it was so hard to manage that's why right now I'm strong believe in platform service so yeah it saves us a lot of time especially if you if you don't know everything nobody knows everything delegate to somebody else I usually said in my presentation about what cloud is to me and basically it's somebody else problem you pay to somebody else to solve this for you so yes you pay harder to somebody else handle to you and pass you pay the hardware and the operation to somebody else to your focus in talk to development I agree there are good people to know how to manage to provide you a Kubernetes managed for you and there are some nice tools now for a developer to deploy your workloads there so yeah cloud, cloud native what is the definition for you of a cloud native application I love the Emanuel Bernat definition it's a new word to sell stuff because right now nobody knows it's become more philosophy way so if you're going to ask to everyone everyone will say a different answer to what does being cloud native I did the research last year went to almost 20, 25 books went to almost 100 articles about cloud native you're going to loss so everybody relate cloud native with microservice sometimes just a buzz word to sell new stuff if you create application that was born in the cloud it's cloud native so there is no a unique definition to cloud native but to me is when you take advantage of the cloud environments to containers, orchestration and automation yeah okay that's a great definition and what I always tell now cloud native your application has to be a good citizen of the cloud and what does it mean if you are cloud native you provide health probe to your cluster you are able to tell your cluster hey I'm alive hey I'm ready that makes your application a real cloud native application because he knows he is in the cloud and he has to report some stuff to the cluster yeah I see a lot of discussion, that's great I love what you just discussed and so you you deploy Java in Kubernetes yes without any issues no it's impossible to use Kubernetes in not having issues it's impossible that's why right now I usually hate presentation about Kubernetes in the success case it's impossible to you go put Kubernetes in the first time if without any kind of mistake yes we tried Kubernetes vanilla it was a little bit hard to us they decided to use implementation of Kubernetes such as OpenShift where it decreased the complexity a lot to us so less nightmare, more abstractions more layers where you are able to do more easily this kind of thing so yes I did not like Kubernetes a pure one, a vanilla one but as OpenShift it was an amazing experience okay about application itself sometimes we say that Java can be a bit slow to start can use a lot of memory which is not totally wrong even yeah it depends right the trade off is the right keyword to everything because I had, I'm constant here in Europe as I do any kind of steps in Brazil as well in North America and every time that I had this discussion it's so slow but in each circumstance so right now in consumer memory to do a faster start up and be ready faster the best analogy that I have on my mind is a race between motorcycle and a plane if you pay attention it is about one kilometer okay the model gonna one gonna one this race right however it does not mean that you will cross the whole ocean with a motorcycle because it's able to run to run one kilometer race and right now the developers with that idea in mind in their mind in this brilliant idea to just look in the start up moment they will cross the whole ocean with a motorcycle and they did not pay attention in the plane because the start up they did not pay attention in the whole environment the whole details the whole everything okay and that's a great analogy I like the motorcycle analogy but it was also to to ask you if you have play with tools like Growl VM to make your application Java application faster and smaller for memory usage well I'm speaking about Quarkis because Quarkis is awesome oh that is amazing have you played a bit with native stuff yes I did it's a good one especially to run with Savlas exactly that's a perfect use case to me native has a perfect fit to choose Savlas because if you have application to run to a long time the JVM gonna beat the native one the motorcycle and the plane analogy the first kilometer model and then the ocean plane will be faster yeah exactly I explained that a lot to people when I explained Knative the Savlas solution for running and I made some proof of concept where you can have some JVM pods running that are the JVM is already hot so it performs really well and if you have a lot of traffic you need to scale up you can spin off some native pods and I got it almost working but that is also a good use case and as you said pure Savlas when you have to scale to 0 and you get a request you don't want your app to take 25 seconds to start up you want it I'm checking the chat because there are some questions Maximilian let me put it here I saw some discussion in communities about co-retrin and structured concrete model do you think that's something that could be coming to Java language specification? Yes I strongly believe that usually the discussions start in the community sometimes might become a framework and then specification that's a huge mistake that everybody thought about specification usually specification must be behind because the idea of specification is to standardize the API for example we wait to see what everybody else is doing join in the best words in the perfect situations possible and then create a specification Yeah it's happened with Java SE for example with the Java 8 with the testing time API where we looked in the j time jota time right? and it happened with the Jakarta E as well where in the time we looked in the spring and looked at what spring was doing oh yeah and then try to do a better solution based on that that's why right now Pivotal is part of Jakarta E because there is no competition between spring and Jakarta E especially because spring data jpa use jpa spring boot it use savelet so it's not a competition basically it's a minimal requirement to run like what Quacku is doing exactly something with cdi like Quacku's di something like that and spring is able to go the next step it looks like okay my keyboard gonna be my usb usb is a standard where you are able to use your keyboard if not this standard you are not able to use your keyboard usb yeah I love you you always come with great analogies I love that yes that's true we have another great question which OpenJDK built do you use so you know right now OpenJDK a pure because a member of the committee I enjoy to compile in bitmap one on my local machine but on production in portico that I have some clients they are using j9 oh yeah j9 okay we have one and so far so good okay okay great and people can also mention in the chat if they want what they are using yes please let us know and Sunny is also making analogies so Quacku is a plane that goes as fast as a motorcycle yes it's a jet it's a jet someone right I guess it's a jet someone yeah jet a supersonic it's a supersonic jet well it's the wow it was a supersonic joke as well congratulations awesome awesome hey let me check the time yeah we are coming to the end of this interview already because I want to play with the audience a bit but you can stay because I'm going to deploy quake free you know the game quake free yes I know three frets left prepare to fight okay and you can I'm really good at that and you can deploy it on open shift okay so let me try to do it and people that know the show really well they already saw that but not exactly as I'm going to do it today because I will deploy it let me share the screen there we are oh look that's sure that was another page let me go here so that is my open shift console okay and by the way let me just show you I'm using the developer sandbox developer sandbox and this is where you can get let me put it in the chat to to to to I have two screens now it's so easy before I was doing the show with just one screen and I was I was a bit black but here you can just subscribe and you can get for 30 days no credit card as you can have an instance of open shift you have some limitation of course because there's no free lunch but at least you can play and after 30 days you can just renew it okay you can do great stuff like if you hear on the developer view you can directly point to a container image okay and it will be deployed for you you could directly point to a git repo and open shift will clone it build it for you and deploy it so there's a lot of stuff oh yeah and you will love this one whatever you can you can drag and drop a jar file on the console and it will build the project oh I love it drag and drop drag and drop but you know what let's do some YAML nooo we don't do it because there's a project let me call my eyes no do that my eyes there's a project called quake cube which is which is a project to deploy quake on cube okay and there's an example YAML file to do that easily I just adapted it it has a clean name right so yeah yeah yeah let me just do wow here it's pretty simple it's just a deployment and some services and let me go back here let me import it okay that should be good basically it's some config look I love in the config you have the maps that you can play where is that here it's a config map so the free for Alma here you have all the maps can I increase a bit oh you can set the bots all the config of the quake game is in a config map okay I just hit create and look at this the quake deployment has been created the service quake has been created and the config map if we go here to the topology let me take a look here the pot should come on where is the pot not running view demo gods events it is playing first oh I know I know what I did wrong I know what I did wrong bad copy paste let me do it again don't do it in production don't do that in production kids can I edit the deployment can I edit the demo live yes let me edit the demo that should be good I think I did a bad copy paste just before the show yeah look at this there we go and I think here I was pointing to the wrong container there we go and that should be better issue yeah I had to I had to put the container it was on docker hub on another registry because I was hitting the limit of docker look the pot is running so my quake server is running okay cool now I have a service and now I just need to expose this service so I can share a new URL with you and we can all play the game so here I just go to the admin view and I go to networking a routes I can create an open shift route oh it's already there and oh because I forgot to delete it before let me see if it works let me see if it works okay there we go okay so let me share that with you I put it there you have access to the chat or I can put it in the private chat as well so oh but I'm playing with a trackpad it's really hard to play with a trackpad but and can I turn out turn off the sound because it's really it's loading it's loading yeah yeah I have fiber so it's really fast yeah oh oh oh I'm I lost my mouse oh that's my opportunity I'm trying to remove the sound okay some issues okay let's go does it work for you oh there you are okay there are some people joining but you play with a mouse no yes I'm using the mouse I play with a trackpad oh oh you fell yeah it's hurt a little bit I've taken the lead you are tied for the lead oh I've lost the lead oh come on let me check this time hey it's sender usually send mega fight hey people why can't you join us son I can see it on the chat what's up you are stimulated let me see if other people are joining yeah there are other people joining that's great and remember remember this is running on the sandbox and you just have to deploy this YAML and you can play create free with your friends for me it's awesome enjoy the show and I'm leading come on let's check the code probably there's a any kind of bug or maybe if Sebastian is a player let me see five minute warning I love that one and Gabrielle says I left for two minutes and then became a game stream yeah but it's a game running on the Kubernetes yes sorry Sebastian oh second place I was almost there I killed myself yeah okay let me try the wheel gun a bit how can I change the weapon I'm pressured ah come on third place oh good one oh sorry max no hard feelings almost over I think because we have the five minute warning I should practice more where is he oh Aziz is there where? oh no it's a fight come on no oh no I'm dead for the lead I'm taking the lead I'm so young to die come on Sebastian no fair I'm trying to super power do you have just keeping an eye on the hour let's see arena where are you come on Sebastian what I secure you quickly oh come on goon I'm time for the lead again I'm taking the lead sorry three frags left oh that's gonna be hard oh sudden death the first people oh stop to jump take my life either unfair totally unfair let me close this so did you like that oh yes I enjoy it a lot yeah so the URL is there it will stay the pot will go down later this night but we'll be there for 30 days but anyone can do it okay that was the idea I think I put in the chat all the stuff that's where I needed for that the YAML I will put another the YAML because my YAML that I put there was not so good oh yeah please let us know each one is more hard the YAML file or quake 3 anyway that was fun because a lot of people joined from the chat immortality or YAML file I love it I love it let me go back to this review yeah hey thank you Otario it was awesome we had fun you had great advices great analogies we had fun at the end and thank you everyone on the chat a lot of interactions in the chat and also people who joined the game from the chat I love that we will be back in 15 days in 2 weeks next week it's Edson taking over for a tech talk I don't know who his guest is yet but I will be there the week after Otario I really hope we will be able to meet soon for real again we're not so far away so should be fun everyone thank you so much subscribe to the channel put the red thumb I do like a real YouTuber and thank you I end the stream now let me see where is the button yeah there ok bye bye