 Hello, welcome. Good morning. Good afternoon. Whatever time it is that you're joining us today. We are so grateful that you're here. Another episode of the nonprofit show. If you joined us for the green room chatter, you have already heard a little bit about our guest today. Jennifer Palin joins us and Jennifer is the senior director at Bloomerang. He's going to talk to us about cultivating first time donors and how we can move them into repeat givers. So stay with us before we jump into the conversation with you, Jennifer. We want to remind our viewers and our listeners who we are. So hello to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American nonprofit Academy that had this wonderful dream that said let's do this for two weeks and here we are nearly 700 episodes. I'm Jarrett Ransom, her follower Julia's follower to say I'm in I'm all in. Also nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven group. We are continuously amazed and so very grateful to have the support of our presenting sponsors so we always like to give a shout out for them. Thank you so very much to Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University be generous, your part time controller staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd. Many of these companies but most definitely Bloomerang has been with us from day one and again we are so grateful to be of service in partnership with these companies so if you haven't checked them out do yourself a favor make sure that you do go to their website. Find out what they're doing because the truth is they're here for you and to help you elevate your mission so check them out. And again if you missed any of our episodes, don't worry, we're here for you, you can find us on Roku YouTube Amazon fire TV as well as video video and we're also on podcast form so we learned that our guest today is a huge podcast listener. So go ahead and listen to the nonprofit show wherever you stream your podcast. So Jennifer, thank you for joining us thank you for saying yes and being that representative here with Bloomerang. Just want to introduce you briefly Jennifer Palin senior director channel management at Bloomerang. Welcome to you Jennifer. Thank you I'm delighted to be here. Jennifer we're so thrilled to have you here. And we got I got a backup backup the whole thing. Explain to us what channel management is in your world. Sure, so channel management in our world is all the partnerships we have with what I call like different vertical markets. This is actually a new division for for Bloomerang, you know other organizations are, you know, similar companies have had this for a long time but right now our channel management there's a few different tentacles, if you will. We have a lot of different kind of our partnerships so we have partnerships with like with other with like we have product partnerships. So these are companies with that want to integrate with us or have an add on feature MailChimp give us a better quick books we have a number of product partnerships, then we have marketing partnerships so people who are doing blogs and webinars with us or co branding. We have someone responsible I know he's been on here a lot James Golder. We're in charge of all of our multi chapter or affinity groups. So these are the kind of parent organizations like YMCA is and big brother big sisters that have a national and have a local chapter, and then also partnerships with fundraising consultants and my main focus for a number of years we've been blessed with getting referrals from, you know, nonprofit and fundraising consultants but we've never really had a proactive strategic way to engage them as a cohort and a community and, you know, thank them for their recommendations and nurture the community I almost as a former frontline fundraiser, I think of it as a cohort of donors we appreciate them, provide a forum to share best practice to get advice to get their feedback. So it's been such a pleasure and you know we're we're just getting started in this partnership landscape. Well, you know, I love that. I always think of bloomering as being out in front really looking at things being innovative. But this is really cool because it kind of speaks to the foundational nature of how you get there to your innovation. One of those things that I think you've been innovative is in is sharing knowledge and sharing the wealth of knowledge, not just, you know, hawking your software but saying look, these are why we need to do things and that's why we have you on day is to talk about donor retention in a different way. And so let's start off by asking you this like, I want to say, Jared, it's like the billion dollar question. It's not even the million dollar question, but takeaways that will improve that donor retention that we're all really working towards. And sometimes we don't do a very good job. What does that look like for you. So, you're absolutely right. In fact, donor retention, people are focusing a lot more on acquiring donors than donor retention. And there's a lot of important reasons to pay attention to it. It is easier and cheaper to to retain a donor than it is to acquire one. Now I'm not saying we shouldn't pay attention to acquiring to new donors that is absolutely essential. But I think a lot of organizations, it's easy to neglect trying to retain a donor and, you know, retaining a donor means if they've given before, getting them to repeat and give again. Like a lot of other things giving can be habitual. And, you know, some of the statistics are really startling eight out of 10 donors who give for the first time, don't give back again. And it's a huge missed opportunity. And, but for the people that do give again, you're likely to get two to three times what you what the donor is given the first time. And, and then once you've gotten them giving two years or more, that there's a 60% chance that they'll give again. So it's, you know, I feel like the first gift is just a donor raising their hand to get in the door and first learn about your organization is the organization's job to engage that donor and just, you know, can start the cultivation. I'm curious Jennifer what is the donor retention rate currently because I love stats we like to get nerdy and we think the data is sexy so what is that number that we're striving for. So the current number is 43% and it's worrying because it's been slowly going down it used to be 45% I think within a year it's gone down to percentage points. So, but you know that's the average. Okay, that's, that's interesting. Well, tell us how we can maintain that how we can get to that, you know, you talk a lot about stewardship and appreciation. What are some things that we really need to keep top of mind as we move through this and the takeaways for that donor retention. Sure. Well, the number one of the number one thing you can do is to thank them. I always say thank early and thank often. So getting a thank you out in 24 to 48 hours is is really key. And if you can do it in a personalized way. That makes a huge impact, picking up the phone, even leaving a voicemail. You know, if you're going to send an email, personalize it put the person's name. When I used to work at an organization, I would have a couple of thank you templates and I would always leave a line, a line to put their name and maybe add a personalized sentence. Anyway, you can try to minimize, you know the time spent but really maximize that effort, you know, and, and then start engaging with them you don't only want to be contacting them when there's a gift, you know, and if they're new to the organization they probably don't know all that much about it. So start sending them information and inviting to the events, interview them and try to understand how did you hear about us. What motivated you to give, or if there's a lot of different giving areas, why give to this, you know why is that important to you. You know you want to start building that relationship. It's really interesting and I love that you come to Blumerang from being a fundraiser and this is like a question from out of left field. But what do you think is a good number for a fundraiser to have in their portfolio? Because I think a lot of times we get freaked out about oh my god it's too much work, it's too much work but then we forget to temper that amount of work with exactly what you said in the beginning. And that is if you can manage this workload you're not going out trying to recreate it or you know gather new donors. So can you give us kind of a lens with what that portfolio number might look like? Sure and it really is different based on the organization and the constituency. You know I've worked at larger organizations and higher ed universities and those numbers can be as low as 75, as high as 200. I think that my most recent university I think we hovered around 125. And I think a lot of that depends on also what kind of resources you have behind that too. Like if you have an engine that's creating stewardship reports and does the reporting and organizing the events. You know a lot of times sometimes they'll send if there's an event and there's a mass invitation list right. And I might follow up, I'll take what already exists and follow up personally or giving them a call making sure they receive the invitation or even in an annual report mailing. Let me pull that and add this personalized note to it. But it also can be, you know, things can be simple and then a smaller organization, you know, they might, you know, not be, you know, blessed or have a natural constituency at universities alumni or a natural constituency that might be smaller like 50 to 75 donors and then different individuals of giving like an annual fund officer might have two to 300 people in their portfolio because they're visiting a few times a year. A principal gift officer working on gifts of say, you know, 1 million plus or 5 million plus where it really is building these strong relationships, they might have a much smaller portfolio like 50 so there's a lot of dependencies. And I'm curious to tag into that. How are you seeing the landscape now Jennifer with you know everything shifting people working remotely. Excuse me a lot of people have moved somewhere else and maybe out of our geographic you know, landscape and neighborhood. How are you seeing that stewardship and appreciation of our portfolio members perhaps you know but of those constituents that we're really stewarding. How has that changed and what are some of the things that we need to continue doing. Yes. Well I think in some ways it's changed where it's open up new venues to to gather right. You know, we didn't know what zoom was before the pandemic and now we're having important meetings with donors on zoom and we're doing webinars like, like we are here so in some ways, accessibility has opened, right, and events that you do have in person, you know, take on more impact, because they're rare, you know, and, but even, you know, and even, but you know there's downsides there's may not be as many opportunities to have in person if you have a donor base that's not local only. So there's pros and cons but I think the people that can lean into it and find innovative ways like at the organization I worked we had a leader of the organization do like a small coffee chat and you know we'd send people coffee and these donors wouldn't get that kind of access and exposure otherwise so you can kind of capitalize and lean into the new resources that you do have and you know a lot of people you get you can get them they're on their cell phone that's their primary phone. And they're not in the office so there's, I think, I think there are you know there are silver linings there are a lot of pros. You know one of the things and we're talking about first time donors people. I love that you reminded us that a lot of times folks won't know what we really do or they won't know all we do and they just have a kind of a glimpse of what could be and how we have to help steward that conversation. You use the word upgrade and how can we upgrade and what does that mean to our first time donors. Sure. So, you know, I, I define upgrade as not only getting them to give again, but getting them to give again at a higher level. And I think, you know, there is work that goes in before you're asking for that second gift and before you're asking for that upgraded gift. So, you really it's a cyclical process you want to get them in the door and engage them make sure they know the priorities of the organization. Make sure you're telling them what you're reaching for in terms of what your fundraising total should be and why you're trying to get them. And then once you've done that work, whether you're at the end of the year or a good inflection point maybe you're starting a specific initiative or campaign, you give them a, you know, you give them a call and say, you know, this past year you made a gift of X, because, because people don't remember what they gave last it's always a question on the tip of their tongue. And remember that they gave a miss giving a year, and you can say this, you know, your gift, it went to this and it's been so helpful. The need now is greater than ever. Would you consider an increased gift of why, you know, I'm a big fan of naming a number. You can make it specific, you know, reference their last gift in amount. And, you know, you can do that through email direct mail and follow up with a phone call. You can make different strategies for different level of donors the way you might upgrade a, you know, a five figure donor, you might take them out and solicit them in person versus your $100 donors probably will be different. I think that's a, you know, that's a general case. I love that upgrade conversation because you already, you already know they're invested, right. And I see so often Jennifer, you know, we sell or we nonprofit leaders sell ourselves short, especially on the donation page, by not saying what that dollar amount will impact. You don't want to make a $25 donation, but you tell me what a $50 donation could do. It's very likely, right that pretty much anyone if they're going to give they might actually upgrade self selection, you know, on their own when they go in to do that. And I feel it's about that impact right what is that impact of the upgrade. How do you talk to that would you be willing to kind of, you know, talk us through that upgrade language. That's such an important point to be able to give tangible examples and talk about, you know, what that upgrade can do either specifically, or some of the new goals that you're that you're trying to accomplish. I like that where you have examples of this is a gift of $50. This is a gift of $100. And I believe when you're having that conversation, you can be that specific. And maybe you give them an example of something you know that's important to them if they made a $50 gift to scholarship, you know, talk about what $100 gift will do and like why that need has increased. Yeah, being very specific is important. And, you know, if you're doing your steps along the way you're educating the donor about the organization, you know, you've given them other opportunities to get involved with events. So, you know, you might be making the case throughout that year. You know, and you're always planning. So sometimes when someone makes a gift. Okay, next year, we're going to try to, you know, ask them for X. And so that's in the back of your mind with all your interactions leading up, leading up to that point. I love that. And I think that it's really a logical thing to be doing. I also think that you reminded us in the very beginning that, you know, we have to keep engaging and reminding people. I loved your comment. People can't always remember what they donated. And by sharing that, it, and I, Jared, I don't think anyone has ever said that in like nearly 700 episodes. We, we take for granted that we know what we, you know, what we wrote out. So I'm kind of like, wow, duh. Yeah, I mean, right, the basics are the basics. It is it's the basic of the basics, but I hadn't really thought about that so much. Now we don't have a lot of time left, but I don't want to let you go, Jennifer, without digging into this a little bit more, because we are in Q4 and we are kind of doing two things. We're trying to get those first time donors in. We're trying to get the year end donors. I mean, it's a lot to ask for anyone. What are some strategies so that we don't just get somebody in the door and then they're gone. Sure. Absolutely. Well, as I said before, not waiting to the end of the year to ask that first time donor for another gift, you know, when you call them, it shouldn't be all the last time I heard from you was last year at this time. Like doing your homework and engaging them throughout the way, make sure you've reported to them how their gift was used and how it made an impact. That is super important. It's one of the key reasons why people who haven't given again, that's why they haven't, you know, given again, be good stewards of their philanthropy. And, and then I would say, don't leave anybody out, you know, call them, call them, call them like organizations that I've worked for we would have calling days and we would have a contest and we'd have a community around and we'd have a group lunch. And, you know, I would have different elevator pitches for different segments. One thing I love doing is celebrating people who have given multiple years, you know, you've given for the last two or three years. I also talked to people who might have given in the past but fell off for a couple of years. And I can't tell you how many times they said, oh, I didn't realize they forgot that they gave or they thought their spouse did it. So I think, you know, really staying in front of them, you know, because a lot of people do give at the end of the year, and plan that out in advance. Okay, September I'll do this October I'll do this. And the more planful you can be the more impact I think you can, the donors can make. There's a lot going on there's a lot of noise there's a lot of distractions right I mean I, I'm going to own up I mean I forgot what I ate for dinner last night already let alone the donations I made it last year's end of year. So I love that it really does seem so basic, but it seems like perhaps Jennifer, many of us, including myself have just overlooked that very simple basic, you know, solution there is is to name it. So thank you. Yeah, I love that I think that's a huge opportunity for all of us and I think it also, you know I'm thinking about the process. I think it forces us to be more prepared and we're talking to our donors as well. Yes, definitely. You know, I think having a donor retention policy, China understand what your donor retention rate is. You know, if you don't like find out how to find that out. I know one of the things I value so much about blooming is on our dashboard, it's front, there's that wheel. You know, a lot of organizations don't know what their donor retention rate is. And, you know, depending on what CRM like we, you know, we do help some of our customers find out we can help analyze your data, you know, and the plan can be simple to it doesn't have to be complicated. And I love. Sorry, I'm going to squeal on Jared Ransom because she has talked about that stat on the bar. She's like, no, right. It's like the number one light bulb. Oh yeah, when you open that up and you see it. And that's the first thing and you can toggle it from fiscal to calendar depending on what your fiscal might be. So you can see what that is and talk about analyzing the data and making data sexy, all that good stuff. So I am so privileged to have had my hands in Bloomerang for many of my clients across the nation. Because I really love what it shows and Julia, I'm going to squeal on you because you love dashboards right like you love data you love dashboards. Bloomerang dashboard is fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really important. And I think that, you know, one of the things, Jared, you know, again, we don't have much time, but we talk about all these things and these strategies, but the bottom line is if you don't know the origination of that number or that data, you can have a sense that's not really based in reality. You can be like, yeah, things are going great or worse. Wow, things are not going great and we have no prospects. But when, you know, so you have to get this, this information to help arm you to make those decisions and to rally the troops honestly, you know, really important. Wow, Jennifer, this has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed getting to know yet another member of the Bloomerang family. And I hope you come back and share with us what's cooking at Bloomerang because I would love to. It's a pleasure being a guest. Well, and, and we broadcasted live from the Bloomerang showroom or yeah the booth there for the AFP icon so the Association of Fundraising Professionals. Yes, big conference in Vegas I just saw registration opened up for for the new year so we're going to have to chat because we love it. You know, it was really, it was really fun to be a part of that because we sent Jarrett and I stayed back in the studio. It was the very first time we'd ever done a live remote like this. And it was a big spike in COVID had literally happened with and within hours of this conference. And, but it was really fabulous and we learned a lot and we got to spend time with the folks from Bloomerang who we only know through video chat so I know this little box right. It would be wonderful to meet you guys in person, especially around the energy right of a conference and absolutely. This one's in New Orleans. So we will be there hope to see you Jennifer. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe, maybe I'll bring my shot ski. We should invite Steven then. Oh my gosh. Well, this has been great. Again, Jennifer Palin, Senior Director Channel Management for Bloomerang. Check Bloomerang out. They are an amazingly giving company. I feel like the organization gives out a lot of information and they share things to folks that they don't you don't have to be one of their customers. It's really bold. So check them out at www.bloomerang.co and they're always doing new things. They have a really extensive training system that they run and with webinars and thought leaders. So definitely I hope you visit with them and see what they're doing. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I've been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors who make this day an episode possible. Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Be Generous, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Later and the Nonprofit Nerd. These are the folks that are really doing amazing work throughout the sector. All of them in a different way with different things and many of the sponsors you see behind us work together. So it's really an amazing opportunity to find some support for your mission. Hey ladies, I like to end every episode with a reminder to ourselves, our guests, our viewers and our listeners to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow everyone.