 It's time for a second hot topic. I want to take a look at the new scramble for Africa's resources and the ramifications of African debt, even as Vice President Kashim Shatima, accompanied by the Minister of Agriculture Abu Bakar Kiari, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Technology Uche-Inaji amongst others, who are presently representing the country at the G77 summit in Cuba. The summit is holding between, well, from today, 15th to 17th of this month, and will deliberate on development issues facing members, mainly from the global south. Obviously, the VP will be continuing the FBI drive of this administration on this trip. We've been joined this morning to take a look at this by Joe Fermi-Daguru, Public Policy Analyst. Good morning to you, Mr. Daguru. Good morning to you. Can you hear me? Okay, so the Vice President has gone to Cuba to represent the country. What are we looking at here? What do you think are the takeaways that we may be seeing coming from this trip? Well, you see, I think it's a continuation of this chief salesman's approach and job that the President has started. You know, it's a good thing that the presence of Nigeria is not being felt globally. Let me put it that way in a positive way because if we don't have a presence in all these associations and meeting less people and giving them the same assurance that we can do business with them, and they should be able to do business with us, following the best global practice as well, I think it's a good job to go around and reestablish. Let me put it that way. Our relationship, our contacts, our networks, so that in the next few years we begin to see the dividends of these trips. Good enough, we are seeing it gradually, we are seeing, we are hearing a lot of promises, we are hearing a lot of discussions going on here and there, but I think in the next few months and a few years we should be able to see the concrete result in terms of dollars and pounds of Naira investment in Nigeria. That is what most Nigerians would like to see. It's good seeing them going here and there to discuss this. Yes, fine, but then in the next few years and few months we want to begin to see the result in concrete times. Yes indeed, the President himself just attended the G20 summit and then we had lots of good things coming from that trip. Do you see this organization and it indeed, it is the largest intergovernmental organization of developing countries in the United Nations. Do you see them towing the path of the bricks with regards to seeking alternative world order, you know trading in national currencies? You see, I think they are watching us carefully, they are watching Africa carefully. That's why our challenge is because Africa is no longer a place to think is the next frontier. No, Africa is where it's happening right now. And if you see most of the, most of other nations like all these European countries and some of the South American states and countries, you begin to see that it's getting saturated and Africa has the population, the market, not just having the population. We have the resources as well in terms of natural resources, human resources, name it. So you have to look into Africa right now and not just looking into it because they've been looking into it for the past years. So it's now to participate in it. And I think most of the things they are looking into, how can we participate gamefully because it's not going to be free anymore. And then we have to begin to decide with them. We have to begin to negotiate. We have to begin to dialogue. It's all like before where he just come and dictates to us. So Africans have grown out of that dictatorial area where he just come and tell us this is what you have and this is what we must take. They have seen it now that Africa is not a place you can just go and dictate. We have our choices. We can make our choices and we can tell them this is what we want. I just want our leaders, African leaders to come together and have a voice, strong voice for that matter. And so that the world will begin to respect us beyond the colonial era, the colonial mentality. And this is what is going on right now. And I think a meeting all around Africa so that because you see when it breaks now, begin to see that look, let's bring in more African countries. It seems that they know it. Look at if you look at the archipelagos, you will see that the Indians are there. They've been there for a long time, you know, because of the Indian Ocean that goes across that area. Look at what I said, the archipelagos, I mean Mauritius, Seychelles, Madagascar and even Maudis. Look at all those areas. You begin to see that the Indians are there. And I think most of all these other nations are beginning to see that look, let's go there because if we don't, we'll be losing out. And that is one of the reasons we have to be careful. Who do we give our resources to? How do we manage our resources? We need them. Yes, there's no doubt about that. But they need us as well. It is not just a free thing. There's no free mail. They know why they are coming to us. They know what they want from us. And we should be able to know and decide on how to deal with that issue. And this is where African Union, the leaders in the African Union, they have to come together and be very serious about this issue. It is not about just being selfish, about my country alone. It's about all of us. You begin to see the political arrangement as well. Take for instance, you have in East Africa, you have a majority of Indians and other nationalities that are calling themselves Africans. Even in Nigeria, you have the Indians. I have an Indian friend who is called Tolani. So we have to begin to see that. So if somebody comes to you, who naturally says, Tolani, you respect the environment. But this is an Indian guy. And he said, look, I'm Tolani. So what do you want to do? If you allow Africans to go to America and become African-American, Nigerian-American, and they can take positions, Obama took a good position as the leader of America. So we have to prepare for all these things coming up in Africa. So Africa may not just be because of your color. It will be because of your brain. And this is the possibility that is going to happen. And this is why people really want to come in. In a few years to come, you'll begin to see a Nigerian-Chinese bond. You begin to see maybe Nicaragua and Nigeria bond. Okay. Well, Nigeria's debt has just jumped by 75 percent. Okay. I'm just trying to take you to Nigeria's debt issue. We just saw a headline this morning on the punch newspaper that Nigeria's debt has jumped by 75 percent in three months and is heating 87 trillion Naira. Now, let's further look at this new scramble for Africa's resources. Definitely a phenomenon that won't go away anytime soon. No doubt this new scramble is different from the old scramble of between 1881 to 1914. But let's look at this new scramble and how it can impact on the development of the continent's economies. You see, we are borrowing and it's good to hear from the president and his minister, what do you do with that? We're not just going to continue to borrow. It's not going to be business as usual. You see, a developing country, not only because we're a developing country. Our budget is on deficit. How do we maintain all of our programs that we have? So definitely we have to put our house in order. So when I say carelessly, it incends with all humility. It incends that sometimes when contracts are being inflated, when there is corruption, when there is stealing of government funds, that is care and spending. And we are not doing much. Let me put it that way to control this. It's not even all in Nigeria, corruption is everywhere. But it's just that we are talking about Nigeria right now. And we are seeing that it is not what we expect. And that is why the government, the president said, we are not going to continue to borrow. But we have debts already. We have to service that. And how can we be borrowing to service debt? It doesn't make any sense at all. So I think we have to give them a chance because we have a lot at hand. This is not just about the last eight years. It has been there for years. And it will take years again. We have to be thinking of how to balance our budget. We have to be thinking of how to balance a trade. So this is a big task. And that is why I'm saying it is not just to evaluate this within a year and expect miracle to happen. We have to. And taking the budget carefully, I think they are going to work on it. The next budget, we give us an idea of how this government will be serious about servicing our debt. But then we still have to borrow because we are on a deficit budget. And until we begin to have a kind of surplus, whether in terms of locally made, boosting our locally made goods, boosting our manufacturing sector, boosting our agricultural sector, boosting our health sector. So we need a lot. It's going to take some time. And I bet you it is not a month. It's going to take years. Definitely. And then the leaders of the continent need to do a lot to reclaim our sovereignty. You alluded a bit to that. But I think let's look at that very, very critically. The vice president is in Cuba right now. The Global South is making it clear that they want an open, more inclusive multilateral corporation, something that is making the West uncomfortable, understandably. But how can African leaders reclaim the sovereignty of the continent? It's basically right now. It's just with us. Nobody is coming now to conquer us if we are serious with what we are doing. If we have our own agenda, we follow it. And that is what I said that African Union has not been that vocal and had that been effective in so many ways with all due respect to the leaders in African Union. But you see now that look at what William Ruto, the president of Korea, is promoting. You will see the pragmatism in that. You will see the efforts put into this. I mean, and it's happening so well in East Africa right now that they are saying, look, you don't need a visa to come to my country. You can even trade with me in Chile. That's my currency. So if we are unable to have our currency, I mean, that is African Union currency. We are unable to have our equalized currency. We are unable to have all these things to standardize. Look, if not for European Union, Apple, for instance, Apple has, you know, a charger that has to be only for Apple. They don't have iPhones and all these devices. But European Union stood up to them and said, no, you have to have a common thing for everybody. So that is why we African, you know, have stood up to any of these multinational or intentional organizations or companies or conglomerates to say, listen, this is Africa. You have to be different when you come to us. You have to teach us differently. And, you know, we are not talking about balanced trade. The trade will never be balanced the way we are going. And I mean, one side we have in the best and the other side is we're not having the better one. So we have to look at all those things carefully and critically as well. We have brilliant young men and women in the diaspora and we have to tap into the diaspora knowledge, the diaspora economy. And these are the things we have to look into. African diaspora is so huge that we can develop this nation. We can, but it is one because the people don't have trust in their countries. They don't have trust in their nation. And that is what is happening. We have to build trust. Look at some of our websites, all these foreign affairs. The website does not even show some of the things we have. We have resources enough. We have human resources and natural resources. We have gold. We have whatever we need to make Africa great. But we are not doing it. And if we're doing it, some people are stealing it. And that is what is annoying. And nobody wants to work in a place whereby you can have a game. We are not having a living wage. We are not having a minimum wage. So what do we have? And that is what the problem in Africa is all about. And that's why the people are happy with the government in most cases. So I believe this government, they've had enough. They've seen it now. And they should be able to do their bit and their best as well. And I think that's why I want to give the government, I want to give the Brazilian government the chance. And I want people to just, let's see how it will be in the next few years, at least in the next two years. And let's begin to see. And if we see, for instance, look at our passport. We say we have the European, you know, African passport. Your passport is not respected. The Nigerian passport may not be respected in neighboring countries. Look at how they treat us even at the border. So what are we saying? The Europeans, you know, they've come a long way and they are speaking in one voice. Look at even that man and woman that they took bribe from the Qatar walk up. Look at where they were sanctioned. And look at what is going on, the investigation. Are we doing such a thing here? We are not. And that is the reality. We have to have a better diplomatic channel to handle some of these things. And we have to have an agenda for Africa and for Nigeria. Indeed. Thank you so much, Joe Fermi-Daguru, for your time. I appreciate that. Joe Fermi-Daguru, public policy analyst has been my guest on the second heart topic. That's the much we have for you today and indeed the week. Thanks for being a part of the show. Before we leave. Okay. I have the quote of the day for you. Through the dark and stormy night, faith beholds a feeble light up the blackness tricking. Knowing God's own time is the best is a patient hope I rest for the full day. Okay. That's John Greenleaf with you there. A lovely long quote. I hope you got it. All right. I am Maureen Menon-Wazigui and on behalf of the entire team, I say thank you again for being a part of the show. Do enjoy the rest of your day.