 Hello and welcome to my career in data, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host Shannon Kemp and today we're talking to Josie and Edmund from the Canadian Blood Services. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launch pad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dativersity.net and use code DVTOX for 20% off your purchase. Hello and welcome, my name is Shannon Kemp and I'm the Chief Digital Officer at Dataversity and this is my career in data, a Dataversity Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in data management to understand how they got there and to talk with people who help make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up to date in the latest in data management education go to dataversity.net forward slash subscribe. Today we are joined by Josie and Edmund, the Director of the Data and Analytics Center of Excellence with the Canadian Blood Services and normally this is where a podcast host would read a short bio of the guest but in this podcast your bio is what we're here to talk about Josie and hello and welcome. Hello. Hi. I'm so happy to be here to share this space with you. I'm so excited you join in and are here. I'm excited to hear about what you do. So you're the Associate Director of the Data and Analytics Center of Excellence. I mean what a great org name first of all at the Canadian Blood Services. So tell me what type of business is the Canadian Blood Services? I mean that sounds so such a like a strange name. What is it that you do? Yeah. It's essentially we're Canada's biological lifeline and what that means is that we are the connection between donors, patients and health care professionals and medical researchers and we're nationally responsible to secure life essentials for transfusion, transplantation, to ensure that it's reliable, it's accessible and sustainable and everything that we do is to help save lives and restore health and so each Canadian patient is we want to ensure that they have reliable access to safe and high quality blood, plasmas, stem cells and organs and tissues. So we really do have a very important role in the Canadian health care system. Yes, indeed. That's fascinating. So I'm just betting you have a lot of data that goes along with that. Very important data, right? So tell me what do you do as the Associate Director of the Data Analytics Center of Excellence? I think every data center should be named the Center of Excellence. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very new space for a lot of organizations and for CVS as well. And so I hired as the first leader for this very unique role and a first time for the organization to serve as a centralized hub to build a team that serves this core centralized hub for the organization to promote breast practices, standardization and innovation in data management and analytics and reporting. So our team is essentially here to establish community of practice to build up data literacy and analytical skills and understand how we can use data to drive better decision making. Fascinating. So and I assume you know, I mean, that's your quality of data is even more important because lives are on the line, right? Right, yes. So we take that very seriously. And so data is very, very important to ensure that we have the right amount of data so that we can make the best decisions for or organization as well as for the Canadian population. So data is a very crucial and integral asset that we want to advance so that we are getting ahead of specific scenarios that we're faced with. And so we are more proactive and we can use the data that we have to optimize on our strategies to help secure healthcare system. I love it. Well, let's talk about how you got into this role. So, Josie, tell me, you know, was this the dream and like say you were six years old, like was this the dream like I want to grow up and be an associate director of the data and analytics center of excellence? No, I think if I go back as far as six years old, I wouldn't even remember what I dreamt of, but I can do, I can tell you how this came to be. And I think this career path found me. I did not find it. And it just naturally aligned. And so after, so my background in university is in economics. So I studied economics in undergrad and after that, I took one year off to go live in Spain. And so my Spanish literacy at that time wasn't as strong, but as like, you know what, I'm up for the challenge. I just want to explore a new opportunity, be open to different experiences to see what unfolds. And so I did that for a year. What did you do in Spain? So essentially I was the language and cultural ambassador for Canada. What that title really means is that you go into local schools and have conversations in English. So you could talk about the weather. You could talk about any pop culture. Whatever it is, you just have conversations with the students so that they can integrate with one different accents. And from North America and be able to kind of understand that everyday dialogue within English. So I did that and it was fun because all I had to do was talk to teenagers. And so that was a good experience. I did that for, and I was able to actually pick up Spanish during that time as well as well as travel a little bit in Europe. So it really gave my mind a lot of time to really think and think about what I wanted to do and explore a different side that I haven't tapped into. And it really led me to continue as like, okay, I'm good at numbers and good at math. Let me continue in economics. I did a masters in economics. And there was this one class that intersected and economics is a lot about supply and demand and data and how these data to kind of inform how we use allocate scarce resources. So it was a similar concept. But there was this one class that had an intersection between health and economics and I'm like, okay, this is a very interesting field, because I, I'm from my family has a background in health. So there are a lot of pharmacists and nurses in my, and doctors as well in my family lineage. So I thought, okay, I'm not going to be a doctor. I'm going to then contribute to this space in a meaningful way by using information to help advance or help improve the health outcomes in the healthcare system. So then I went into research after graduating and I realized that I quickly did not like that. I did a lot of data analytics, but a lot of writing, but nothing where I was using data to make an impact. So I was contributing to the space in a meaningful way because we use research a lot to move forward with specific initiatives and strategies, but I wanted to use data in a more powerful way. So then I went into like more operational data analytics and that's when I really found my niche. Since then, I have been on a career path developing within, so I've been becoming a trusted expert and advisor within the field of health analytics within the province of Ontario. And so this opportunity to fill out my lab to have a national view. And so I took it right away. Amazing. I love that journey. And somebody was just asking me the other day, you know, is it possible to find, mix your passion with data, right? And find that job that you just love. And I think you just exemplified that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I said it found me because what I did was really open myself up to experiencing new things and not necessarily close yourself into a specific defined box. There's an opportunity to have like an intersectionality between certain things that you like to do and enjoy to do, and where you could also contribute to the social good part as well. So that part in me was another driving force. And so that's why I have been having on this career path. Yeah. So along with the things kind of unfolding in front of you and opportunities, you were also very intentional about what you wanted your career to look like. So that's, that's, I love that. That's a great story. What, so tell me why did you get into economics in that first place? What drove you what interested you there? Why did you decide to major in it? I am good at it. I am good at numbers and I am, I'm a very analytical person. Hence why I'm in data analytics and data management. I love to solve problems and economics is a series of problems that need to be solved, right? And to find out what are the different contributors to figuring out that problem. And my curiosity and a field just filled with just utilizing your curiosity was just like an amazing area for me to kind of excel at. So, and so yeah, it tapped into that side and I loved it. And I realized that it's not just economics that I love. I just love solving problems with data and numbers. So, whereas it could be an economics photo focus or it could be like a data driven focus. So I know that that's my skill set and it could flourish within data analytics as well. Do you find yourself in your cringe? I was using both like your economics training along with all the data training that you've acquired along the way. Yeah, funny enough. I, in my first week I realized that this is full circle, because where I was on the health service side, we're looking at how do I optimize patient outcomes using the information that I have. How do I make patients healthier, knowing that there are specific factors that could account for that using information and giving that in the hands of decision makers so that they can align resources to make the health system function better. And so being in this new role where it's about actually collecting supply of biological products to serving the needs of the patient which is demand, I had an aha moment. I'm using data analytics and also tapping into the foundation of my academic training in economics with the supply and demand as well as I need to know how to use data and how to structure data because you don't have that training in economics. It's a simplified version but the training that I had in my career that exposed me to different data assets, the way to manipulate data, to code data, the importance of data governance, data standards and policy. And now the intersectionality between supply and demand and what the relationship is and how I integrate those two things. Yes, this is the moment where I've connected the dots and like you know that's why I spent six years of my academic training economics to be in this position today. Well, and I'm interested to know to I mean it's a new position so you know as you've you know explored data, especially, you know, even in your schooling and then in the jobs in between that and this you know where did you learn and especially being in a new brand new role like. And how did you ramp yourself up and dive into that role and shape that role that that is new. Right, yeah, that's a very good question. I think, coming into having a blank state is can be a good thing. And it can be a curse at the same time. But for me, it seemed like I had a blank hand fast and I could and have an opportunity to make it what I am. I can see the best opportunity to see for it. It's not a good thing but what helped me to really ramp up on it is asking a lot of questions, being curious, right and curiosity allows not only new information for yourself, but prompting the other person to think in a different way. Or to like oh I have never asked myself that question so you're contributing value while learning at the same time. And so value add while you're also getting information to see how he can structure your team so I was the first person that was hired for the leader of the center of excellence. So I had an opportunity to do that environmental scan qualitatively and quantitatively and then so okay this is the resources that will be based on what I've heard so far. 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That's not an easy feeling to accept so even at the stage of my career in the leadership role that I'm in I always have to condone myself. You feel uncomfortable right now don't worry you'll be a superstar at the end of this comfort zone. And so I think that's the biggest lesson that I have learned is that growth comes with discomfort. And you're exercising a muscle that you have not used before that you will know you'll be proficient at if you continue along that path. And that I think you learn that as a kid as well because they're very resilient. They're like okay like you know I took my daughter skating and she was crawling for the first class and I'm like oh my gosh it's a waste. We're never going to get there but the resiliency is what kids have and as adults unfortunately sometimes you lose that and going through this growth path allows you to expose yourself to that and build up that resiliency again. So that's what I've learned the hard way but that's valuable. Oh that's a that's a great lesson and and yeah you're right I mean we so we try so hard to avoid the uncomfortable things but that is where we grow for sure. Yeah. So, um, so now you know it's going through your schooling and now in your new role and everything in between you know what is your definition of data. So essentially my new role as able to like quantified metaphorically. So I view data as little puzzle pieces, right little puzzle pieces that we're able to put together. And it will help us tell a really wholesome story so it helps us to really map everything out and if you have all the puzzle pieces in the box there are no standards there's no governance is jumbled up all throughout. So the intent of my role as a leader of the center of excellence is to help us put those puzzle pieces together. And sometimes some organizations are very mature where they have put half of the puzzle together, and there's some opportunities for different puzzle pieces together maybe by a whole new puzzle set all together to really put together, but the goal of the COE is to really add some spotlight because sometimes you're puzzling in the dark when it comes on to data analytics. So the goal of my center of excellence to add some spotlight so we're piecing the right pieces together so that we can tell the story. So that's how I view data. And I think it's very integral it's a huge asset to all organization but particularly to my field, where there's an intersectionality between health and analytics is very, very crucial. Oh my gosh, I love that definition. I ended that such a great visualization. And that's so relatable I can totally understand all the puzzle pieces in a box shuffled up and put them together to make something a visualization. So that makes a lot of sense. So, you know, and having worked with data now, do you see the importance of data management and the number of jobs working with data increasing or decreasing over the next 10 years and why. Definitely increasing. Because as data becoming such an integral asset, not a lot of people actually know how to use it. And there's a fine unique skill set who are willing to reinvest their career in learning how to be with data analysis and data management. So I think that there's going to be a space because we're collecting so much data. And there's going to be a market growing market for people who know how to analyze and to structure that data and to govern that data. So if you think about every app collects data now there's such a vast amount. So I think there is just the way that our culture is moving society is moving. We're huge data creators and consumers as well. So I do think that that industry will have adequate space for anyone who is willing to come on board. I think I think you again sitting in a new job that was created specifically for this I think that just advocates and supports your argument there. So I look forward to seeing more of those jobs opening up. Because you're right so many companies still don't know how what or haven't put a value on their data yet. There are so many different maturity levels there are certain companies that are very advanced in the space and their leaders in the space but they're still evolving right like what's the next thing what are we going to do. And then there are companies that are very low in the maturity level that's looking to to elevate time to expand their data capabilities so there's always room for the very very senior data folks, as well as for the very junior data folks that can come along and help other organizations Oh nice. So, then what advice would you give to people looking to get into a career in data management. I would say try go for it. Give it a shot. See what you like see how you can instill something that you're very very passionate about into the field of data management. So it doesn't have to be everything you want it to be but you can find something in there that kind of give you that positive feeling. And so I have done that because sometimes it can be very difficult it can be a very difficult field as well because it involves a unique skill set and we can be strong on one and on the other. And so whatever it is whatever field in data management that you choose find something that really gives you joy in that field and focus on it and then the areas that you're not as strong in continue to work at it but you just need that thing to kind of motivate you to get through. That's good advice because there are so many different jobs and roles and in the field of data, like you say, data governance analytics are often separated. Yeah, yeah so. And in my my role or my the COE is actually separated by working cookie slip together. Right so it's very important to not only expose yourself to different angles and opportunities. Right there's no there you can always try and see what really speaks to you. Yeah, yeah, and every industry has data right. Yeah, exactly. It's a company that drives passion for you. Exactly. There are a lot of individuals that were graduating what I've heard from the universities that are interested in doing social good so if that's your thing. There's a lot of organizations who are working for the public service or an organization of charity that you could probably find interesting so. Oh well Josie and this has been so much fun and so fascinating and interesting to get to know you and what you're doing is it's I commend you on your job and role and finding that passion. Thank you for sharing allow me to share my story in this space. I really enjoy talking to you and enjoy this whole podcast and what you're trying to achieve within this area. So again thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Thank you. Thank you so much. To all of our listeners out there if you'd like to keep up to date in the latest podcasts and in the latest in data management education you go to data or city net forward slash subscribe until next time and stay curious everyone. If you're listening to data or city talks a podcast brought to you by data or city subscribe to our newsletter for podcast updates and information about our free educational webinars at data or city net forward slash subscribe.