 I don't remember a lot. If anybody's got anything, but any of the places that I could have gone, anybody, if you know who you are. Please, see, find him, please. Hi there, our YouTube analytics says there's a 60% chance that you aren't subscribed. So hit the subscribe button and the little bell so you get notified when a new episode comes out. Do it now! I'm Scott Rouse, I'm a body language expert and analyst, and I train law enforcement in the military in interrogation and body language. And I created the number one online body language course, Body Language Tactics with Greg Hartley. Mark? I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language. I help people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility. Every time they communicate, including some of the leaders of the G7, Chase. Hi, I'm Chase Hughes. I did 20 years in the U.S. military, published two number one best selling books with low filing influence and persuasion. And today I give people, including intelligence agencies, superpowers in those things. Greg? Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor, have written 10 books on body language and behavior, put together this number one body language course at BodyLanguageTactics.com with Scott Rouse. And I spend most of my time on Wall Street in corporate America. All right. Well, today we're going to talk about Kalem Wisnet. He's the guy that killed his son. And it came out a few days ago. And when it came out, we all, everybody sent us videos of it, all four of us. And we were like, oh my gosh, we've seen this. And we watched it really quick. We're like, we don't have time to do a video. Let's go ahead and say this guy should be locked up. It was so obvious. When you see this, if you haven't seen it yet, you'll see what we're talking about. So Greg, you want to give us a little background on this if you got some? Yes, all I know, oddly enough, I have two degrees of separation with this guy. Somebody I know knows somebody he knows. And the first thing they thought when they heard this was it was him. That should tell you there's some baggage associated. And we can talk about a lot of that as we go through this. This is in Montgomery, Alabama. This was last week. As Scott said, we saw the video. All of us were like, man, if we can just get this together, we should go and say, go after this guy. All I can tell you other than that is they found the child not long after that buried somewhere in the woods. This is a five-week-old baby. And I think the child died of head trauma. We'll leave it at that. I think you sent me that first, Greg. That's what it was. I know I sent it to you. I got it from Lou. I think it was one of my Twitter followers who sent it and said, hey, look at this. So then I sent it around and we started poking it. All of us looked at it and said, hey, guys, come on. You sent it first and I started getting a bunch of them like I think we all did. All right, well, let's take a look at the first video. We discovered that a missing child had been reported missing in the area. At this time, the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office would like to enlist the help of the general public to come forward with any information that they may have. They can call us at our non-emergency number, 832-4980, or you can contact Secret Witness if you'd like to remain anonymous. What we're going to have now is we'll have the family come forward to give a statement. All right, Greg, you want to go first? Sure. Watch this. The first thing is you'll see something very conspicuous in the sheriff's deputy or sheriff. He's got a grief muscle himself talking about this case. That makes me think, hmm, they may know something that we're not seeing. The other thing to pay attention to him is when he walks away and he brings the guy up, he cuts his eyes over to the other guy if we watch the entire video who's standing there like, hey, don't let this guy get too far because I think they already know. And if you watch the entire video and you go find it, you'll see this other big sheriff standing there when I was watching it. My wife was with me and I said, yeah, he's looking to try to figure out what size leg shackle that guy wears because he knows he'll be behind bars shortly. It's that obvious, guys, as you're watching this. Now, when the woman comes up, there's a thing we talk about called fig leaf. And fig leaf is when a man puts his hands in front of his groin, and that's protecting primary sex organs. Women do the same thing by crossing their abdomen tightly with their arm. It's a barrier, but it's a very specific kind of barrier. It's a protective barrier. This guy's got so much control over this woman. And what you're going to watch as we move forward is something I call distraction. Chase, I love the quote you say according to me. I'm going to say according to me. I always talk about energy, direction, and focus as being really easy ways to figure out what's going on in someone's head. This guy's energy is high. Now, some of that's induced by chemicals used. I have a feeling over and over and over, which have changed some nerve circuits in him. But the second one, so his energy is high, his focus is scattered. Sorry, his direction is scattered, meaning all arrows on a lining, they're going in all directions in his head. And then finally, his focus is internal. I call that distraction. High energy, scattered direction, and internal focus. He's also a nail biter, one of my favorite guys to get an interrogation because all that energy that causes people to bite their nerves is going to go somewhere when they feel something, and you're going to start to see it. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so do take a look at, it's actually Captain Trent Beasley, who's the gentleman right up front. Really watch him because he does an incredible job of putting even more pressure on during this situation. It's almost an interrogation situation that's really going on here. He does a fantastic job. He's division head at that particular establishment. Now, right at the start, it seems like this couple kind of suddenly realized that they're meant to be in a state of sorrow. There's a moment of them kind of just out there doing nothing and then it's like, okay, we've got to do this whole sorrow thing. And so we see the female covering the elbow here, which I wouldn't expect if you've lost a child. My expectation would be you want to have both of your limbs free. You want to be ready to do stuff. You're wanting to get action going in order to retrieve that child. So you're going to be very out there. I would suggest rather than closed up and protecting these vulnerable areas on the body. Eyes are fully averted. So the lot of eye blocking there and full aversion of the eyes seems interesting. Male controlling the upper shoulder and the whole joint of the shoulder. So there's a difference between when you take somebody's shoulder here and when you take it at the joint and you suppress the joint. It means you're going to have way more control over that person. So there's a difference between comfort and what I would see is control going on there. Again, interesting to see at this point. And we've got really quite tense lips from him. We can see drawn up here the musculature and therefore there's a tension here. Again, interesting to see. I concur with you, Greg. It's lovely to see the other officer or detective over that side who for my money is clearly making sure somebody doesn't do a runner at this point has clearly blocked off an exit not only from a security point of view but maybe even from a psychological point of view as well to let them know that they're already boxed in on every side there. Scott, what do you got on this one? So Freud said if his lips are silent he chatters with his fingertips and betrayal oozes out of him at every pore. And the same goes for deception. Now, what I'm going to say is not only does deception ooze out of every pore he's like a... Remember the wacky water weasel? Did you ever have that when you were little? That thing was... It looks like a cup. It's got these two goofy eyes on it. A little hair thing on it. You plug it into the hose and it like runs around, flies around, squirts and water everywhere. And you try to run away from it and not get wet and dodge it and all that. That's what we're seeing here. That's what his deception oozing out looks like. A wacky water weasel. Now, the interesting thing about this is that all the things you pointed out Mark where they're supposed to be together but her neck is stretched her head is almost pushing them away and you can see space between them both from their hips all the way up to her hairline where she's trying to push not trying to push him back but she doesn't want to get any closer than she has to because this guy is an abuser and as we go through this I'll point out the classic things that we'll notice from someone being abused and being next to that person and why she's doing it this way. More than anything she's hiding her face over and over. Probably because of shame and at the same time she knows she's lying so she's trying to hide her face. Yeah, and her shoulder like Mark I'm going with the stuff you did her shoulder is a barrier basically trying to keep herself away from him and you can also see her pelvis moves slowly away from him and get as far away as she can get so this she knows what's happened he knows what's happened and she's trying to stay away from him. Chase what do you got? I really agree with all of you guys let's quickly walk through the chase use four step checklist that we use in the last video when we're talking about missing people number one where is the concern directed is it story plot innocence or the missing person's return and safety number two are the moments of stress or fear associated with their guilt or associated with the missing person number three is the information provided specific and directed toward finding the person and number four is the sadness more or less visible than the stress so which one's higher sadness or stress so it just kind of made that quick reference and if you're a reporter also made a 20 point checklist on what you should be asking these people and maybe we can throw it in the video description so in this video I think neither of them is looking at the media or the sheriff they're kind of gazing down towards the ground and this is common extremely common in guilty cases this is also seen when an actor is about to go on stage he's running through everything that needs to happen before he goes on stage Mark can probably verify this she's expressing shame while he rehearses his lines so she's feeling some kind of a shame and he's just rehearsing and the wife is mouth covering there at a non grief moment and I think this is concealing more likely than it is sadness now there's so there's no muscular movement of sadness or grief yet here they haven't they haven't started the show and I think their reluctance to immediately come forward when the sheriff steps away is indicative of their knowledge that there's no emergency that there may not be an emergency that needs to be solved right away so I think everything about this guy's presence will set every woman who watches this I absolutely see it but one thing to look at what Scott was talking about is that pelvic distance so people make contact with each other or partners make contact with each other keep an eye out for the pelvic separation so the upper part might be there but the pelvises start to separate and this is indicative of all kinds of stuff but it does show that there's some disagreement in the relationship it's not like some hard and fast indicator of abuse but it's likely present and so I got I love that four step thing what's the bet that search on google for wacky waterways all goes up I was just thinking guilty knowledge guilty knowledge to the favor panel that's true he discovered that a missing child had been reported missing in the area at this time the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office would like to enlist the help of our public to come forward with any information that they may have they can call us at our non-emergency number 832-4980 or you can contact Secret Witness if you'd like to remain anonymous what we're going to have now is we'll have the family come forward to give a statement alright here we go she's not good with cameras so I apologize but we were just like for anybody that has any information but I did remember I was breaking up with the cops I know that if anybody's got anything in any of the places that I could have known anybody that you know who you are please find him please it would mean a lot it would mean everything to us family at the same without family family alright Mark what do you got yeah so let's just look at the linguistics going on because for my money there enough he kicks off with I don't remember a lot well that's handy and I think maybe many of you will remember the episode we did just the other week and Chase was saying I think it was the other week Chase was saying hey one of the trickiest things you can do to an interrogator is like remember well he's already started that process of going it'll be quite a good alibi if I don't remember anything and you know there's a good chance there's some drug abuse there as well and so may well may well doesn't remember ok I do remember I was breaking up with the cops well that just doesn't I mean you know to one of Greg's points last week sometimes culture linguistics can come in but even with culture linguistics I don't think that makes any sense but let's let's let's carry on if anybody got anything any places I could have gone ok if anybody got anything any places I could have gone anybody you know who you are well ok that seems to point to him any places I could have gone anybody got any places I could have gone you know who you are ok it's either pointing at him or it's still very confusing it would mean a lot it would mean everything to us and then he continues with family ain't the same without family well let's just break this down we've got a lot of eyes it's a lot about I and there's a lot about any places I could have gone so there's another I there it would mean a lot to us and so it's all about them and family not about CJ and it's not about what you might be able to do out there what you might be able to do about helping CJ helping that child right now it's a lot about us and I it's the same without family that for me is distancing so a lot of word salad there which could be cultural but I don't think it is I think there might even be some kind of embedded confession it's about I the cops us and distancing around the idea of family rather than let's talk about the child and how you could help the child right now I'll leave it at that because I could take up more but there'll be less left for other people chase what do you got yep absolutely agree we have another case of the missing perpetrator we need a sound boom and you know as I'm always fond of saying it's a great quote that I invented the behavior panel wouldn't be the same without the behavior panel so true so true so the this entire monologue is story focused and it's not not talking about CJ at all the husband I think is a has some mental issues I'm not a diagnostician nor qualified to make a diagnosis but this certainly looks like a malignant narcissist on a base level and the rest of this the rest of these videos is behaviors controlling and threatening and while expressing zero sadness there's zero concern for the return of the baby and his only stress behaviors are in response to potential threat of being found out or slipping up in the story there's no grief on the wife only fear we do see fear we don't see sadness and grief both of them are more focused on getting this over with just kind of let's wrap this up and I think the sheriff already knows that he's he's wanting him to keep talking and that that phrase like you said mark places I could have gone we know where it happened so I think this is a a slip protean or other ones Greg I don't think we're dealing with Einstein here first off so his word patterns are probably a result of poor education maybe you know that kind of thing it also could be a result of lots of chemicals over time and not clear patterns of thought the thing for me I'm going to say this outlet somebody's going to feel sorry for this knucklehead in the comments and say he needs counseling a wall to wall counseling is what he needs he needs some kind of for hurting this kid anyway all relationships have weird body language are all micro cultures every one of them but most relationships don't have the micro culture and the expression of fear when a person holds another person by the shoulders typically it's comforting this woman's arm is across her torso and locked up tight I agree I don't see grief in either of these people talking about a baby who is missing now mark I'll give you an alternative what I think probably he's saying he's saying I remember we were breaking up and we I think cops he's editing as he speaks because he's cautious what he's going to say and I don't think he's swift I think he's just rolling along and he's trying to tell a story and editing along the way and he's probably saying hey him and his girlfriend wife whatever the relationship I'm not sure maybe they were breaking up I told the cops is kind of what I hear remember I'm a deep South boy too so I live in the world is a little different then I also hear him saying anybody who knows where I would have been that sounds code to me like I'm blasted out of my mind and driving around is what that sounds like code for me so I think there's probably he's starting this whole story about how it happened and he might not even remember who knows I don't know enough details of the case but I would I'm always cautious to try to read too much into language patterning in cultures that are this odd because this is this is south Alabama or they call it la lower Alabama this is lower Alabama and this is a poorly educated guy and also appears to have a drug issue and anger issues at one point if I were stroking my wife's hair to make her feel more comfortable it wouldn't be with my knuckles for example there's all kinds of signaling of threat in this guy's body language you can't miss it and then she goes into something that Scott and I call transfer immediately doesn't mean she killed the kid means she's hiding something and that hide when we prioritize our feelings grief takes backseat if there's an immediate threat often we're going to get our bodies out of the place we can deal with grief later and she covers her face and she starts to be emotional and kind of rocking and that's what we call transfer emotionally unavailable so you can't talk to her you guys already hit on the fact that her body is trying to separate from his and he grips and pulls her back in guys if you see this in a service station wonder if somebody's being trafficked look something is not natural about a man physically grabbing a woman and moving her body around it's not comforting I'll just leave it at that and say every time I see this guy all the family isn't family he's trying to he's trying to appear human and appear to be softer than he is is what I see here there are very few people that I see that I immediately think not a lot of value this guy is one of them this guy I look at him and think yeah immediately lock this guy up we'll figure out for sure what happened but he did something when I saw this and yeah is that is that a little bit of projection maybe but there's enough stuff here to tell me that we'll figure out what he did but this guy's done something Scott what do you got? I think in this throughout these videos we're going to see behavior by her that says that will show I'm concerned I'm not concerned I'm afraid I'm not afraid those types of things for example now we know this guy is an abuser already from the record he has now if you watch when he first says she's not good with cameras she looks up and smiles at him and you're going to think wow she knows she's in on this as well here's why I don't think she's in on this when you deal with a narcissist when you deal with an abuser that person being abused wants to connect with that person because when they first met that person they were connected to him when they were dating they were connecting he was nice to her he was love bombing her in other words prying off oxytocin serotonin and that helps her bond with him now what they do is they cut off that oxytocin and that serotonin those good reactions the positive reinforcement and when they do that that person is in a way addicted to that oxytocin and that feeling they have from that abuser or that narcissist or the psychopath whatever the case may be so they'll do anything to get some of that just to get a drop of it to look like a heroin addict would do anything to get drugs man but to get anything they'll try to get positive reinforcement from which gives them the oxytocin blast that's what we're seeing here we see that over and over and over she can hardly lock eyes with this guy every time he looks at her she looks away and when he's looking at her he's looking over her head and she's looking at him and when he looks at her she looks away these are classic signs of someone being abused and the hand that when she puts her hand to her face coming right out of the gate like that that denotes from my experience shame and guilt which lets me know and I'm just saying me personally that she's got guilty knowledge she knows what's happened we know she knows what's happened but here's how we know she knew earlier because she's showing us because she doesn't know how to act you're right Greg these people are their idiots I don't care I don't care what he says they can't come together both idiots so they don't know how to act he thinks he knows how to act he thinks he knows how to act like a person who's feeling sorrow and sadness but we don't see anything any expression of sadness we don't see any heavy breathing it's all actually light breathing we don't see anything that lets us know he's stressed other than from the situation he's in but no grief stress is what I'm trying to get to there when she's covering her face she's covering her face like this you see the fingers going like this she's pushing on her tear ducts she's not trying to push tears out but there are no tears in there and so what she's doing she's pushing on those because she's thinking tears tears and there are none from either one of them no grief muscle, no nothing so when you watch her push on her face and you see her with her hands to her face her index fingers go right to the insides of her eyes on her tear ducts there yeah I could go on and if you're an interrogator this is how you step in and go hey man let's separate we gotta keep them separated I don't think they've been talked to yet because look at the way they're acting they don't have a story together they haven't rehearsed it they've said okay here's what happened which is what usually happens when people do something they'll say okay here's what happened the car and the car cops come up and you all tell the same story because you've heard the driver telling the story so when it comes to the guy the passenger seat or girl the guy in the back seat tells the same story but when you separate them you haven't got that story clean yet that's when you start finding out who's really being honest and who really isn't at that point alright I'm gonna stop there she's not good with cameras so I apologize for anybody that has any information I don't remember a lot but I did remember I was breaking up you know with the cops but I know that if anybody's got anything in any places that I could have gone anybody you know who you are please find him please it would mean a lot it would mean everything to us family at the same without family that's for sure any questions? we had pictures of the baby too but we sent him to the investigators phone so he would have him to show you all in the press I don't know if y'all can see this pictures but this is the best I can do he's only a month a week oh and there's other pictures with us together but trying to crop him and do stuff with this phone is not working very well but we sent him to the investigator hopefully the press gets him a praise that they do so that they can have a good idea of what he looks like how close we are to the family how much we really appreciate him alright Chase what do you got? we focused around helping the police we were very helpful to the police you can see him request approval from the press he's looking for someone to start nodding their head somebody please nod your head in the audience give me some some kind of thing to relax I don't think he sees that and I think seeing the photo of the baby and seeing no approval from the press makes him start to hyperventilate and you can see and hear him starting to hyperventilate and I think towards the end when he starts trailing off we have some fading facts there but I think he's struggling with consciousness at this point where he feels like he may faint and I think he's trying to it's one of those moments where he's like okay I'm going to stay awake I'm going to keep myself up and he's trying to keep himself from fainting at the end and he was dismissive about the photo it's not going to help anybody it's not going to do much and he's not willing to send it to the press he's like yeah maybe the police will send that to you guys he's not wanting to send it out and definitely there's managing stress there's no managing sadness here there's managing stress and I'm glad that you and the other panel has sent this video to us if you see anything like this that's breaking news please get this to us as fast as possible in the future and we'll get a chance to take a look at Scott when she says this is the best I can do this whole thing I've got tons of notes as I'm sure you guys do let's skip that part and go to where he says we've been trying to crop him she looks at him and smiles again once again she looks at him and smiles but take a look at him and he rolls back around again she's trying to get that oxytocin thing happening and she's afraid of him every time she looks at him she knows she better be smiling because up to this point this is as nice as he's been to her since they were dating I can promise you that he had been nice to her at all and you can tell the way she's fearful the way she's standing the way she's trying to separate herself from him back to my wacky water weasel theory as he's talking and he tries to connect with Captain Beasley he gets in there and he's like look at him doing this that guy totally blows him off that's hardcore just totally looks away because he knows this guy did it he's not going to connect with him he's just leaving him there to fry right there in the sun in front of everybody doesn't acknowledge him doesn't do anything oh my gosh that's beautiful in our course the true crime workshop we have something called people act different ways we've named them for example this one is romance again like Greg was talking about earlier he's just he's trying to be helpful he's trying to look and we've done all this stuff we try to bring pictures we try to crop them we've done all these things and the romance gets right up in your face and they're like yeah they want to help you they want to get out and look for the person who's missing they want to do whatever it is you need them to do so they can stay in touch with what's happening and this guy is just burning you with wanting to help too much and be too he's trying to set the tone that he's a good guy and then he has a family and everything's great and it's just not working because he's at some parts where he's trying to be quiet he's just talking gibberish I mean there's nothing really coming out he's just talking and it just sounds that's talking about leaking that guy's squirting everywhere um okay that's I got Greg what do you got and he's squirting like a water whistle yeah so you talked about the woman looking at him and smiling primates are cousins chimps that is a primal thing they do out of fear to show their teeth out of fear we think of it as something else but I think that's that kind of smile when she's looking at him trying to connect and looking back um he does a little distaste thinger at one point where he does a tongue jut all of this is his prepared look at what I can do he's giving you everything that he's put together okay we did this and we did that and we did this and we did that well it's your kid of course you should have still no grief muscle the sheriff had that grief muscle in the beginning he doesn't have it yet um he does something I think it was you Scott who brought up that people who use drugs have two faces or we talked about it collectively we got one for them for the police and then one for their dealer the people they're dealing with well this guy's trying to put on his best face and it ain't a good one but he's trying to do his best to come across as believable and trustworthy and all those things and his distraction is showing again remember I said distraction is high energy um misaligned arrows arrows going in all directions and focus is internal well his reason for being distracted is standing right beside him what if she says the wrong thing and that's what I think it's all boiled down to at this point and so we see a lot of this stuff coming up and boiling to prioritize the right thing to say and that's when he starts to come out at the end with just gibberish words I often say that when people are editing to deliver a message we've all interrogated prisoners and when they're telling you something that they've prepared when they get to the end there's still other stuff left what you would call word salad mark I call that it's kind of like if you're typing in a document you're constantly editing and you don't take all the crap you leave at the end out that just rolls off their tongue and it does it more less self-control and those kinds of things so the more of that I hear the less self-control I think the person has that's what I see and that's where we're at Mark I think it's you right yeah lovely so you know all credit to Captain Beasley there who is doing a masterful job of doing absolutely nothing and letting them just boil there it reminds me it just came to mind here we used to have this little game on live theatre stages what would happen eventually is somebody's in front of you doing dialogue with you in front of a large audience and they just dry which means they forget their words the words have gone sometimes you'd help them out sometimes you would deliver them the line or do their line for them or ask them a question which would trigger them and some days when you're eight months into a run in the west end sometimes you just think I'm just going to let you fry and you just look at them and smile and you might say you're on your own and what would come out because they now have to get themselves out of this and because of the adrenaline or the boredom or whatever it is they have no idea what they would make something up and it would be a gem especially if it was Shakespeare because they'd have to make up a whole bunch of stuff they just and that's what's happening here and I think that's what Captain Beasley knows is that if he stands there and basically goes I'm not helping you out you're on your own here that they will start to talk and I agree what comes out for me there's a little bit of I pray they do so there's a little bit of bringing God into it which is always often a sign of something may well be up but he talks about the technical issues around delivering a photograph and kind of the supply chain problems of that I hope it goes to the right person that comes to this we've got a lot of worries about the whole technical issues behind the photographs and the whole supply chain we just really haven't sorted that out well he shouldn't be in that situation he should be like here's a photograph that's going to work for you you would want them to see a picture you wouldn't want to be talking about your supply chain problems and then by the oh by the way I completely agree Greg it's appeasement smiles throughout from the female here and you know watching this now you want to be sure that you understand all the different smiles out there you know there are many many different types of smile and sometimes people smile because of pleasure and sometimes they smile because of fear and sometimes appeasement to get on the right side of somebody I think there's an element here of appeasement and we'll see that in a moment again anyway the last one there that I want to point out is the kind of fading facts or gibberish that happens at the end there which for me triggered in me remembering some of the jazz musicians that I've heard play and when they introduce a song and they'll come up close to the mic and go so this one is the other jazz and there's that's like what's the name of the song what's it what's it called anyway just remind you know and only make light of this because you've got to because it is so clear that there is something up here and a five week old child involved in this you know sometimes I don't know what else to do but look for the lightness and the fun around this because you know there's no bringing that kid back again it's extraordinary there's there's my bit on that any questions we had pictures of the baby too but we'd seen him to the investigators phone so he would having to show y'all in the press but I don't know if y'all can see this pictures but this is the best I can do he's only a month and a week old and there's other pictures with us together but I didn't trying to crop him and do stuff with this phone it's not working very well but we've seen him to the investigators hopefully the press gets him a praise that they do so they can have a good idea how close we are to the family how much we'd really appreciate it Saturday Saturday was the last time we were together Saturday night Saturday night we were all together sleeping and well the baby with me and her in the bed until we was in any other room because we usually we usually are together as a family but it's not easy alright Mark what do you got? yeah lovely so first thing that triggers a red flag for me is you can see how well her hair is tied back would you ever think that any other hair would get in her face it's not going to because it's super tied back and we see some grooming there it's not necessary it wouldn't be necessary to do that there wouldn't be hair in her eyes so that's a sublimation of something else that's a distraction or a comfort gesture or something something is going on here yeah when we last together Saturday upward inflection and she looks up to him she's asking for approval on this they're now looking number one maybe to get their story together that's possible or some what the story has been got together and she's going hey am I getting this one right you approve of how I'm performing here could be an element of that there then she puts herself into the victim there it's not easy very muddy timelines by the way just muddy muddy timelines that already don't make a great deal of sense puts herself in the victim state there it's not easy and then he goes and I don't remember much of so we're back into the not remembering piece there which is either a tactic or he sincerely has no idea what was going on there that's a possibility as well I just want to give you one little model or a series of models to think about how they're behaving and how they're performing right now you can think about things in terms of I think it's Joe Navarro's idea there of comfort or discomfort that's a good way to just have a simple way of going so they look comfortable or do they look uncomfortable right now I often think about things like warm or cold do they look like they're warm and open or do they look like they're cold or closed I've maybe told you about these before but I want to give you one more of these which is are they being direct or indirect and so direct movement is very very clear it seems to go where you think it should go immediately and it gets there relatively quick and when it's there it really feels like it's landed both of these two especially the male are super indirect at the moment it is a Scots you know got his model there of the wild water weasel whatever it is those things are interesting to watch wacky water weasel those are interesting to watch because they're unpredictable and you don't know where they're going to go they're very indirect okay so that's what I'm looking at here is going so this body language is very indirect in a place where I would imagine you'd want to be very direct because time is of the the essence time is taking away here for your child you'd want to be direct so again red flag goes up for me why are they being indirect when I think they should be being direct what do you got on this so one thing you will notice they have not yet mentioned this baby's name once not once does anybody know the baby's name he's called CJ because it's Caleb junior and try to remember that baby's name because nobody will but they are so internally focused they're trying to get their message out without any attention to what these other people are doing they're keenly unaware that people perceive them the way they do because you can see they're actually a little amused that they got their story out that it was Saturday and she looks up for approval agreed oh yeah it was Saturday now she's looking to this guy for approval and requesting approval for him and if that's your strong point that left shoulder's whipping because it's uncertainty when he's answering everyone of those you can't miss that single shoulder shrug constantly now it could be a behavior trait that he has because he's done it so many times but likely in this case he's uncertain of what he's saying I'm not going to beat this one to death I'm just going to say there's a lot of them trying to collaborate and corroborate each other story face to face and they are so internally focused they're not aware even that those officers are standing there going yep okay this is shooting fish in a barrel or that even the people interviewing them are focused people in volatile relationships often don't notice people outside them I'll just leave it at that and chase what you got yeah absolutely agree with the guest and he's clean shaven looks well rested has a very recent haircut and she's repeating his words sometimes verbatim and looking up at him with trepidation I don't use many three syllable words but maybe Mark can make sure that's the right one I think hypothetically if there was a scenario where a narcissist husband did something to their bed to his baby that would probably lead to a conversation of we can't fix it now it's already done you can either ruin my life your life and the kids life for the rest of our lives or you can get on board the only way that we're going to fix this look at me the only way that we're going to fix this is to get this story straight and we're going to go to the police that's the only way I'm going to be here for the kids everything's ruined for you for the kids for everybody if any of this goes to police all we're going to do is screw up our life and that's hypothetically what I think might happen in a scenario like this which is pretty bad Scott I'm glad you picked me next because you're right I bet you I didn't think about it that way but when you say it it's like yeah look at me so you don't go to prison too because we're all going because we waited this long but she can't help it because she's afraid of him so no wonder she's not going to say anything when they say when was the last time you were together they both pause and think about it Greg if you say that to somebody and you were like when's the last time you saw him what are you going to do yeah I'm not going to say a damn thing it's what I'm going to do if you're asking somebody else in the room I'm going to get deadly quiet that's why I'm saying they're not smart enough to realize people are watching no if your little kid is missing you're going to know exactly what time it was she was 7.30 and here's where I was I did this and all of a sudden he's gone I think that guy took him somebody must have taken him there's no out as to what they think has happened to him Chase's point earlier on there's no emergency here this is ridiculous that makes me think because it wasn't long after this where he admitted to what he'd done they found the body for sure I think that would happen I don't know how the thing unfolded because I would think I think that captain Beasley would take him in a room and say you sit here down right now what do you think is going on and doing that whole thing not being nice not being hey let's talk about that none of that you go the damn jugular right there in this case when I'm going off on a tangent he says nothing when they ask that you know and the first few questions are all women I'm sure they're dying to be talking to these people because they see it on him and when he said where were you all last together he doesn't say anything he says nothing because he knows when they're last together and then she says Saturday night and then he says what part does he say where she looks back up like well that wasn't right there's a part where she looks up and says that anyway she's fidgeting around she's so uncomfortable she can't really stand it again she's putting distance between them both when he says the baby me and her in bed that's what he says that's when she looks up and says like what that's not right I think he did that he was out and the baby was out in the same room he was I think whatever he did he did that and then took the baby out that's what I think happened and while this is going on she starts texting who's she's on TV who's she texting while she's on TV she's using her phone to hide she's hiding away from she's insulating herself Greg it's an insulator where she's getting there and she's in the middle of something so she's trying to blank I guess blank all this stuff out because she knows this isn't going well at all not at all because she's look at that Captain Beasley a couple of times too that's not having any part of it at all not even a little bit all right who's next Mark I think we're done now I just want to pick up on I didn't pick up on the shaving and the haircut so I was interested in that because what I did notice was a crease down the side of the t-shirt a freshly ironed t-shirt or straight out the bag it was folded I can't see the full marks right now yeah yeah but it's it's like box fresh and that for me it's like you managed to get a box fresh shirt out for this that's kind of I'd have just grabbed I don't know what I'd be in I wouldn't have grabbed any clothes I don't know for sure if this is a married couple or a baby mama because she talks about her two-year-old not their two-year-old so I don't know there's some volatility here for sure but I don't think he's clean shaving I think he's got a little beard on there Chase but he's shaved over here I think he deliberately not shaved in the mouth area okay can you tell us what's the last thing you guys remember Saturday? yeah Saturday was the last time we were together Saturday night Saturday night we were all together sleeping the baby with me and her in the bed until we was in any other room because we usually we usually are together as a family but it's not easy and I don't remember much all right when did you all realize that he was missing? they didn't I was home with my oldest material and he was with him and he went to go pay gas at gas station and realized that he was gone and he let the police know and we know that he was missing okay Greg, what do you got? I'm not going to have a whole lot for this it's more of the same there's some posturing and storytelling and she says I was here and he was with and he said I didn't tell him there's some talking I can't figure out exactly what he's talking about he kind of trails off I think it's more of a signal of hey be careful what you say he's got a hand on her again regardless of whether she was involved she certainly knows what happened you better listen to me or you're going to jail for the rest of your life and she's listening and she doesn't seem like she's all together there either I mean the way she's responding I'm going to leave this one at that as about as much as I can take of it and Scott, what do you got? I think he gave her the cue that was her part to talk because he didn't want to say anything at that point because he knows all this stuff she pretty much knows too but that was her cue I think that's why he looks right at her and he's doing all that weird dancing around wacky water weasel stuff then yeah when she says when did y'all realize he was missing they haven't thought that like I said before they were in the car or whatever and said okay here's what happened blah blah blah here's our quick story and didn't get the details and so when that woman asks the reporter asks that question when did you realize he was missing she has to lie about it obviously because she's got to come up with a time and we all know because I've talked about it a thousand times when you lie the brain has to do three things first thing that's got to do is stop you from telling the truth hang on just a second make something up and then deliver it and in the deliveries where you see most of the action in this you see a lot of it when they're thinking it up but the big stuff comes on the hardcore stuff comes on in delivery and that's all we're seeing in there they're probably putting themselves in the liar's loop they're sticking to the get ready to go down to the Greg I have a thing in that in the true crime workshop where how you tear a lie apart and you can box somebody in fairly quickly if you use this loop and they're putting themselves without going into details of all that they're putting themselves in this loop in the death spiral of a lie almost right out of the gate with this it's I don't have I don't have much else to say about that either Chase what do you got she's all all shame very little sadness and she's being abused at home I would I would stake my career on that but this downward gaze that he's got with this bouncing movement is most likely an expenditure behavior so he's just burning off excess energy so he sees his biggest problem as I need to manage this stress not display sadness so he's seeing stress management as a bigger problem than displaying sadness so that's taking over his his physiology and and his CPU his his brain at that moment and I think her fear of him is absolutely palpable in this clip right here and this this gaze that he has downward is just planning strategizing and ensuring that she stays on story and I think this is you know this is where we're starting to see that she heard that speech she heard that speech of we can't fix this we can't go back in time that we're all gonna go to jail you're gonna screw my life over you don't want to be responsible for that to you that kind of that kind of stuff is is hardcore and I think she's trapped in several different ways in this video here and Scott please show us a still when this goes up I want you to see this on the very final frame of the video and this glance that he has says a thousand words this is disdain and careful observation of her is a horrible human being so if you ever see something like this for your friends ask him if they're okay when they're in private take a look at this and sometimes all it takes is someone just to notice that and then ask the question because a lot of people you'd be very surprised get into a relationship like that and feel like it's normal and they feel like it's normal until somebody starts to ask questions about it and they begin to understand this isn't this is not how everybody else lives that's all I got there great I think it's Mark I'll be I'll be Greg yeah good points there good points there chase so it starts for me with with an eye block right from moment one and and even that's odd in fact the whole idea right from the start of of she's not good with cameras but you know you know if you've got kids you know that they pull a whole resource out of you that you didn't even realize you had you know if you thought you were busy before like when you got kids it's like wow I can get I can get a lot done I'm getting done everything that I did and all of this at the same time you know this is what busy really is that so they pull a whole resource out of you and so when your kids are in trouble like it pulls another big resource out of you got a lot of power to get stuff done do you think you're camera shy at that point do you think anybody's like I'm not sure I can really face the cameras right now no you you'd be there you'd be fronting it up you would be getting eye contact with all those people out there your inhibition would be gone because there's only one thing on your mind which is I'm gonna get my child back I don't want to save my child so I don't get the eye block right from moment one yes he's he deflects right at the start I he says you know when did you know they gone I well they didn't that's a great deflection isn't it we're not going to talk about when we realize they're gone we talk we're going to talk about when they didn't realize at all so it's a complete deflection to be negative over to somebody else very interesting move lots of dominating moves there including a control of of first of all the neck and then controlling the head so we've moved from domination of the shoulder to now getting control of the neck and the head and you'll know you know if you if you grab somebody around the neck they've still got a lot of power from their shoulders if you can take control of their head they've got a lot of trouble right now because that's the thing working most everything else so wherever the heads going you're going to be able to lead them same as the center of gravity if you take control of the center of gravity around the stomach area or take control of the head there's not a lot they can do so highly dominant behavior there what I really what I really enjoy about this is then his to to Captain Beasley and then Captain Beasley's friend who's off camera there of like can we can we end this now and no not going to end it not going to end it we're just like no we're not going to help you out you're going to keep on going we're going to see where this one goes you're going to have to walk away from this we're just going to let you keep on running and we're going to see where this goes to I'm almost sure this is a definite tactic from them because I have seen police with with other victims in this case and with a victim they are often very very careful to take them away to comfort them to make sure because because that victim may well have information they're an asset at this point and keeping them comfortable and safe is a great asset these two are not trying to keep them comfortable and safe right now quite quite rightly I think that's what I got let me add back one thing one thing that I noticed in her and Chase I think you hit it dead on the head about him what he is doing is all that nail biting energy is coming out he's not biting his nails but look at his fingers are chewed down to the nub it's coming out you can't hide that that's the reason it's easy to interrogate somebody who does that because they bleed but in her case she does something very interesting is that when you play with your brow that's not associated with grief that's associated with stress and that drives the whole point everything everybody is saying that she's stressed because there's a number one threat right there next to her and she's probably smart enough to realize that he might be a threat but that's also a threat standing right there and that threat or that danger is going to override her grief in this case whether she has grief or not not sure but look at that playing with the muscle in her forehead every one of you has done it instinctively put your fingers to there because those two lines that are going up are not grief those are concern or other negative kinds of things but look at it and pay attention there's no arch she's playing with her forehead and it's also eye blocking also I think she is becoming his adapter as he's squeezed on her and like you would like those little stress balls he's doing that stuff to her she's how he's getting his stress out is on her which is I'm sure he does in life because he's an abuser so that's one that stood out to me it was guys hand around her neck and those types of things we'll see him get even tighter in a few minutes I think he's using her as his adapter or his adapters are he's releasing that energy on her just yay yep they didn't I was home with my oldest material and he was she chose with him and he went to go pay gas at gas station and realized that he was gone and he let the police know and we know that he was missing I wish we did knew if we knew he would already how the rest of the family I notice it's been taking a toll on everybody everybody's saying prayers everybody's keeping an eye out alright chase what do you got first thing on my notes here I had to download these and watch them on a plane today but the first thing here he's using her to burn off his own anxious energy like you were saying there you go and squeezing on the shoulder starts during his uncomfortable silence so it's a little like a stress ball and he's more focused on getting it over with than getting kid back and when she's saying people were saying we you know people are letting us know they're saying prayers that's her saying other people believe us unconsciously she hasn't playing this out I think that's her communicate other people are you know they're saying prayers because they believe us there's a missing perpetrator there's no request for help and he's controlling her like a puppeteer in this he's focused on planning and strategy he's aimed at the ground even responds with this stupid moronic quip back at the reporter like well if we knew we would have we would have went there what an idiot I'm sorry Mark go ahead no fair play yeah so I would go for she says no do you know where they might be no no I don't so the elongation of that is a red flag for me he retreats and gains height dominance as well yeah partly because of the step maybe but he does prefer hanging out with the height dominance there he does want to retreat retreat retreat at this point again captain Beasley just fantastic he says do you want me to say anything else and the guy is almost deadpan other than what Scott was saying earlier which is there's some anger there from him Beasley I think knows where this one is going but again great stoic attitude there pinning him in what interests me most about this is the grooming gestures that go on so you'll see the female start to run her fingers down the the side there in a in a kind of a scratch almost sexual grooming gesture there again she's appeasing she's soothing him she's appeasing it only happens very quickly and then I think she realizes that that's not what I should be doing right now we're meant to be doing grief right now not keeping my husband keeping him happy keeping him subdued making sure he doesn't go off the rails get angry right now but I think we see that moment of what she's used to doing which is keeping him relaxed keeping him subdued keeping him happy with these grooming gestures and we see a grooming gesture for herself as well so again to chase his kind of earlier list that we put down right at the at the start where's the focus here the focus isn't on can we make sure the child is okay the focus is on am I okay are you okay which which we might see in many of these examples a sense of I want to look after the child and I want to comfort my partner at the same time it's not that you can't in these situations have comforting of the partner you can have both but they only have one at this point and that's a real problem that's what I got on that Greg what do you got so I'm going to cover a few things one is we talk about liar's loop which says there is a trigger then you fabricate then you you de-conflict with your life and then you pitch and then you defend well you can see her clearly standing in the headlights of the liars loop if she hasn't thought of these answers and she's trying to respond and she starts to dance around and she does that cover her face thing again where she's playing with her brow the second one is he does a contracted denial and you guys always hear us say non-contracted denial it causes us to pay attention this guy's word pattern is I don't or what was his word exactly where they ask him do you know where it's at no I don't I know I don't so he did a contracted denial it's probably because he doesn't say do not and it's just how he's wired so what we want you to hear is patterns patterns matter this we know this guy did this and he says no I I I don't so that's his word pattern the piece that's interesting for me as well here is this whole control thing that's going on how much he she start he starts to move away from her and then he grabs her and pulls her back over if you've been around people who are in a drug fueled relationship I'm not saying she's druggy he certainly looks at and I'm not sure she isn't they make me think of the movie said Nancy you know that that kind of thing those volatile relationships get all kinds of nuance things for relaxing and we can't see all that from the outside but I certainly see anxiety in her is the anxiety caused by she's not sure what he's going to do is it caused by the liar's loop is it caused by something else but there's a moment of danger looking you dead in the eyes and trying to convince you and then there's a dance if you take that video and play it very fast or very slow you'll realize how weird all that body language is he's looking for the door and then he moves and then she's looking for a different door and distancing then he grabs her and they pull back over it's like two mimes in the park almost few if it were not such a horrible thing you watch it that way you'll be amused because it it's an absolutely foolish looking dance and that's the kind of thing that happens in relationships especially volatile relationships is that dance and that not being able to separate now I don't know what he thinks he's accomplishing by doing that by grabbing her moving her I think you're right chase is just his adapter in his ways to release nervous energy but it surely looks bad and there's no way that I look at that and think okay they're both being honest she's not anxious she's not trying to get away again if I saw that at a service station I think hmm what's going on we're going to do something on trafficking on human trafficking and this if you see that kind of behavior and the people are not together then you know I've been in situations in my life where you happen on an abusive relationship when I was a young guy and used to go to bars guy in the parking lot slapping his woman around as he's called her and I went over to stop it you know it's that kind of behavior that I saw there I saw no you're not moving and keeping control really weird I'm I'm going to conjecture just like you guys do this is there's something going on home and she's listening it's because that's how they work that's all I got Scott yeah around the gate on that when we see when she's rubbing her face and bouncing around those those are all adapters for her trying to get rid of that and like Greg you pointed out to us I don't think you point you I don't think it came across on where we're talking here that you usually don't touching your forehead there right in there isn't something where you show this is where you show you're dealing with stress I agree I can't remember if we had that if we were doing that where you're offering or not just in a just to wrap it up quickly she's I think what we're seeing in her a myriad of emotions coming from her no sadness because I think she's sort of in shock that this has happened I don't know how long after that he went missing that this has happened the CJ went missing but she's feeling she's got fear she's got shocked she's got frustration a lot of frustration when she when she looks at him a couple of times and then she has to be nice to him and smile at him I think she's a she's a wreck and I wouldn't be surprised if she's one that said look here's what happened you know after taking his him in the room and go look you know tell me what happened she's she probably opened right up after that and they probably understood that that she was the whole reason she didn't say anything back to Chase's speech to her what he what the guy would say to her she probably said that you know he said kill me if I didn't do that I think she's really afraid and I agree with you Greg this is this is exactly the behavior you you see when somebody's being controlled you know and Mark talking about actors I think the actor that could do this and hear me out because it's it has nothing to do with looks Brad Pitt could do this hand to God I think because he can look that uncomfortable I've seen him do it in a couple of movies and man this guy is so you can't fake that but I think that's the I think I think Brad Pitt can do it I think he could act here is the king of the of the Wild Wacky Wacky water weasel he there are a number of characters that basically cast doing he's doing Wacky water weasel acting you know how we're all the time exactly you know how we're all the time quoting Joe Navarro we say well Joe Navarro there'll be some kid that comes on goes well Scott Rouse's Wacky water weasel theory so I'll be known as Wacky Wacky water weasel theory guy and all this careful what you I'm going to teach what you quote right teach that at acting schools no I don't I wish we didn't do if we know he would already with that how's the rest of the family holding up I know this is a tough ordeal but it's been taking a toll on everybody everybody's saying prayers everybody's keeping an eye out for him alright well let's throw it around the room let's take 30 seconds and say what we think about what we've let's wrap it up and see what we think about all this Mark you want to go first yeah sure so for me what's most interesting about this is that control of the shoulders control of the head area it's it's not something you'd often see in a partnership that is that isn't all about control so one to look out for I think as many people have said but really clear examples of this controlling of the shoulder and controlling of the neck and the head chase give us your thoughts these kinds of people are obsessed with status hierarchy and self-image and how they're seen by other people I'm willing to bet money he's texting other women they're going to probably find that on his phone and he's doing that to improve his self-image because he needs someone else to see him brand new on a regular basis Scott I'm sure you've seen those kinds of people maybe comment on it but he has zero mirror neurons he doesn't echo any of her emotion his discomfort comes from her touching her face and he's worried that she's going to give it up the whole time that's all I got great yeah first drug guy thing right drug guys have that dual personality kind of thing they have to share an image that somebody needs to see I think he's trying to do that and his image is not that polished his best foot forward is not a great forward so got that number one number two he's antsy as all hell he's a nail biter and you can't not that lots of nail biters don't do this dancing thing he's doing but energy is going somewhere that's the reason people bite their nails it gets to be habit and it just choose it back I think whether she knows exactly what happened or she was there or he came in and told her or whatever she has suspicions she certainly has some guilty knowledge of some kind in this we can't tell exactly what but we can see that she's hiding it and she's doing stress not grief the brain has I learned the first thing I learned in body language I always tell you guys is if you put pressure on a person who's crying and they're really crying it'll get worse if they're using a part of their brain to call up and summon crying it'll fade because the brain is not good at running multiple programs we don't truly multitask we simply flip between programs and these are not neither of these guys strike me as overly intelligent I think they're so internally focused they're unaware of how the world is going around them and some of that is probably related to substance I'll leave it at that and Scott I agree I think we're dealing with idiots full on full-blown idiots because I don't think they understand the gravity of what's happened obviously I mean she's really worried and she's got so many things to worry about she understands that that's bad and he does too because I'm sure he's thinking well shoot I might go to prison if this doesn't work and doesn't realize it didn't work from the time he walked out from before we saw him we know that Captain Beasley knows this guy's full of it he knows that guy did whatever it is that they're going to find out he had something to do with it so this is just this is a like a big old jumble of emotions and feelings from frustration and fear and sadness on her part to nothing on this guy's part except worrying about himself I agree Greg he's directly focused on him everything starts with I he doesn't open up with when they say do you know what happened to the baby or whatever he doesn't say no we don't I don't it starts off with I it's ridiculous ridiculous I hope it gets everything he's got coming to him especially when he gets in prison so they don't like that in there at all maybe a little bit alright fellas that was a good one if you like what we're doing please subscribe and hit the little bell so you'll know when you have something come out alright fellas see you next time deal bye now