 Okay. Hello. Hey, Julie, nice to meet you all. Hello. Hey, it sure is nice to be here. Hello. I'm Spider Rabbit. Hello. I'm Spider Rabbit. I brought some things to show you. I've got them. This is my I'm Spider Rabbit. Hello. It's really nice to be here. Hi, I'm Spider Rabbit. This is my spoon. And this is my web. I'm Spider Rabbit. Hi. Hi. I'm Spider Rabbit. I'm Spider Rabbit. Thank you. Thank you. I take you out on your feet. I take you out on your feet. Like you mentioned, I'm a 20-year-old boy and a 20-year-old girl. So I was like, honey, go talk to me, baby. I said, hey. Hi. I'm Spider Wampir. This is my world. I'm a 20-year-old girl. This is my world. I'm a 20-year-old girl. I got some carrots. In my devil bed. And I got my carrot. That's carrots. I get some nice things in life. This is my ass, this is my spoon, this is my duffel bag, and this is my wear. First thing. Time to get a drink. These are the best things in life, right? This is a real rich man. And what he wants from me? Drink. He's saying that it's your thing. you have your granddad, and again, and again, I'm going to these наверное any more spider rabbit. Here it's big, thirsty. I'm gonna get something to drink. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. That's another hand for you. That's another hand for you. This is my hand for you. My hand is a scholarship to the ancient mystic order of Rosa Gruchas. This is a kidney. This is my hand. This is my hand. This is my spoon. I'm spider rabbit. I made my food. This is my electric saw. This is my double back. I've got some nice things in my double back. Here is a signed copy of my palm. Here is a plastic bag. And here is a flexible double. Work makes me hungry. There's another one. It's too small. Work makes me hungry. I'm gonna get something to drink. This is my hand for you. This is my hand for you. Work makes me hungry. You're right. He's spider rabbit. He's spider rabbit. He's spider rabbit. He's spider rabbit. He's spider rabbit. He's spider rabbit. Butterfruits, you do not understand. Oh, I take this. Oh, glass of God. You made me very sad, Butterfruits. Me? Well, gee, I'm sorry. Butterfruits, you are cruel. You are a bitch. I'm sorry. Why are you really mad at me? Why are you really mad at me? Sorry, I'm never mad at you. I'm so ashamed of you, Bob. I never thought of that. I'm really sorry. I want you to get out of here. You are generous by the rabbit. But you must learn to change goodness by the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. By the man. And so welcome everybody. We need this. Thank you. And I mean, we'll talk with you guys. And first of all, I think another round of applause with all kinds of great performance, great work in progress based on the poem out of the 70s and Tony Young. Yeah, we'll talk a bit more. Thank you. We're sitting up here with sweaty, my sweaty bloody cell. It's my pleasure. Really. And sweaty bloody Dan, you can't see the sweat in the blood, but it's there. Well, Dan, if you want to maybe tell us indeed the origin of the of the work. That's actually a Tony question. Tony brought the play. Tony and I had done Ubu together, which we start, which we did here first. Yeah. It's cool to once again be doing a work in progress here at Prelude. It's exciting. And we just continued being a vital thing and we look at all of us here. It's fantastic. Very excited. Thank you. And yeah, and we have like a, we were talking earlier about how. Between the two of us, like, like a third thing happens. That's not like what I do without Tony and not like what Tony does without me. And I was saying earlier, it's like, you know how some superheroes or supervillains get like a pill or a thing. And that churns them into the superhero or the supervillain. So we were saying that I'm, I turned Tony into a superhero and he turns me into a supervillain like that. So we, so that advice first and vice versa. And so we just been sort of like looking for what was our thing after. And then Tony found this play. So the history of this play and me is that Michael McClure was a very well-known poet. I also had a really robust play rank where he, his plays won several obis and he was a friend of my father's and my dad did a revival of spider rabbit with the great comic actor and New York icon, Taylor Mead. So I saw this show with Taylor Mead doing this play when I was, I think about 16 or 17 and it freaked me out. I mean, I thought it was a pretty hip 16 year old, but I was not ready for Taylor in this role, eating brains. And I think the play was about an hour longer because he just like he took, he took advantage of the repetitious link nature of the language. And he just basically went in circles for two hours. And it was very, very deep. And it was just me, a couple of very, very confused senior citizens from the residence hall upstairs. And this beautiful supermodel, she was like a kind of statuesque, Grace Jones-like woman who laughed at every single thing that Taylor said. And so Taylor, of course would do instant encores for her of all the bits, which is why the show lasted so long. And I really, you know, it really freaked me out and burned my brains. And I've been having it in my head for like 30 years. And it feels like whenever I have a crazy idea or a crazy thing that influenced me during my teenage years, it seems like I have to come up. I have to ask Dan to do it with me. Cause Ubu was also something like, you know, it was a sort of thing. You're playing pair Ubu records. The band pair Ubu, there's named after Uba Wa. And you, you are reading the play and you're like going, would it be fun to put the songs with the play? And so only the only person dumb enough to help me with that is Dan. Cause he shares, he can get back to that sense of teenage idiocy with me. And we go that out of each other. So I'm sorry, you had a hand up. Did you want to ask a question now? Yeah. Yeah. It's called acting doll. But no, I mean like, I'm a nice guy, but being a supposed nice person in today's society, it takes a lot of work. You know, I take a lot of, I spend a lot of time trying to be a decent person. So I think everybody works, if they try to work hard in it, they have a secret, you know, alternate self. That is filled with all the resentments and violence, but that's what this play is about. Spider rabbit is very nice cuddly figure, but he has the other spider rabbit inside of us. And we're all, we all take, we all participants in this culture. And we're all living this and we're having these cushy, wonderful lives, but we're all deeply, deeply invested in violence just because we're part of the system. That's what the play is. I think it's about like, what is, what, what, who is the spider inside of you? We all have the, yeah, we all have the talk, we all have rabbits. We all have spiders. Is the spider really evil? Is it the rabbit that's really evil? I don't know. I love the fact that this play asks questions. It doesn't necessarily provide answers. And I think that's really, really key to what I think is important work. Yeah. It's, it's, it's like unfortunately relevant. In a big way. Vietnam. When we first workshop this back in spring last year, Ukraine just started and now everything that's happening in Israel, Gaza, it's like, it's unfortunately the, the buried violence in all society is like unfortunately continuously fucking relevant. No. Well, I don't know what that's what questions you get. Well, I think, I think it's, I think that's up to everybody who sees it. I don't think it's one set of questions. I think it depends on what it makes you ask. So then do you want to say what you wanted to convey yourself with this staging? I mean, I'm, I agree with, I have a Tony and I link up a lot on the, like, it takes work to be a good person. And that's a kind of a recurring theme for me. And I get really interested when something makes me very uncomfortable and I'm like, ooh, that's a little, like that's, that's a little too close to home or that's, like that's, that's letting a little too much out in public. Or that, like that makes me actually in like want to cry or that I find like anything that pushes it beyond the comfortable or like the, the, the pedestrian everyday self. And this play really asks you to do that. And we found a lot that like on the first read, it's not, it's not this, you have to really like dig into every single moment and see what's going on with it. And it was just, for me as like a director, it's, we have the shorthand and the relationship that like, I kind of know what Tony's going to do next. And he kind of knows what I'm going to do next. And we're both headed in that direction. And we kind of bounce off each other really well. So it's just about figuring out like that zone. And we're very comfortable being awful. You know, yeah, but it's like, it's, we're really, we're really comfortable being like, this is, this is not a pleasant part of me. And then also like, and now here's a dumb joke, which I think balances it out. So that was a really great place to, to explore that. With Ubu, we had all these great collaborators like Julia, this muse and our music director Vera Baron. And we had a whole band. It was just a big, huge show. We had dancing. We had dancers. We, it was, it was a full band. But this was just me and Dan in his studio up in upstate New York, just basically budding heads for a week. So it was really, really great. It was a different experience for us to just like, it was really intimate. Just the two of us like working it out. So that was a really great way to work. So, you know, we're like looking for new horizons to do in this collaboration. This is a great thing to try out. It's just like, what if we just made something just the two of us. Before, maybe I opened the questions to the public. I just wanted to say that to me watching this for the first time, not doing, not knowing any of it. It's a mixture of Beckett and Bench David Bench and some of the tickets and it's just goes all over. It's amazing. Great work. Thanks. Perhaps any reaction questions. Stunned. I think there are aspects of Taylor that will have made deep, deep impressions on me, but Taylor Mead is a unique comic figure. You know, and I knew Taylor and he continued to be a friend of mine and two, so I think it's there, but I had to find my own way. So it's really more about like my different, like all my sort of like childish awkwardness that I, you know, I'm not only working really hard to be a good person. I'm also really working hard to sort of like bury my really awkward child self. And so this was an amazing place to try to re access all that and to glory and being able to just sort of be like silly and, you know, and just like awkward and not know where to stand and all that stuff. And to allow myself to go there was actually kind of deeply therapeutic. Yeah. Taylor had just like incredibly specific. Comic persona that was just him. So, you know, like, I think he was a deep inspiration, but I couldn't have enough to copy. Any other. Well, we worked for about a week and then we came down to the city and we worked for about another week and then we did a workshop just in my, I have a little home theater that seats 22. So we did it there and then we sort of put it away for a while. And this was a great opportunity to get it up again. So we then worked another week. So yeah, I'd say that the, the, the primary thing was two weeks a week. Back in the winter of 2022 and a week here we reconnecting it and revitalize. So, like, what was the specific, like, are there like certain moments that really, really changed during that process that you felt like, okay, this is what we want it to be. And like that was a big. I think it's really about when we kind of began to define the split. Yeah. Yeah. We really figured out the, like the split personality or there's really three personalities. There's like the evil. I don't want to do that. There's, there's the, there's like the evil and there's the rabbit. And then there's the ones that get me the most. There's the just Tony. Like there's like, I think my favorite moment is when he drops everything and just goes like, I am really glad to be here. And it's just him. I'm like, to me, that's the, that's kind of like the freakiest part. So it was really, we did a lot of work to define what those, when those three personalities were in charge and, and then to not just make it like easy to switch, like that whole eating the kidney and the like the, the blood, like all that, like how do you really go into like, how awful it is to turn into your awful self. Or how awful it is to like, wake up and look around and be like, you know, like just, and to not gloss over any of those moments. So it was really just defining those and really digging. We also really go for like, what does this thing want to be? As opposed to what do we want it to be? So as soon as we got to the place of being able to have the piece, tell us what to do. We're like, okay, now we're, now we're on, now we can dig deeper. And there was stuff we added this week, but we didn't radically change anything. We just sort of like dug deeper in a lot of the, in the underscoring. This week we added all of the war sounds. Which again, like I'm not happy about, you know, like that sucks, that sucks that that made sense to add that, but it made sense. Sorry, I'm doing the thing. Yeah, but it's like, this is like an opportunity to actually like deal with shit that we're dealing with. So that, that was new. And Dan built all the sound cues. So it was kind of like we said, okay, we're technically Dan's going to do the sound, which of course is a huge element. And I did the video and my partner, the great Leanne Brown played the vision. So that's also, you know, I said, who do I want to come out of the heavens and chastise me? Baby, could you do this for me please? And so that was, that was, that was great. And I'm like, I'm also very much loving largely a choreographer. So I just always like music is just always kind of happening in rehearsal. It creates like the atmosphere for us a lot. Yeah. Did you have a thing there? Two things. It was back to me. Oh yeah. Yeah. So he didn't like that. I asked the question. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean. Yeah, there's, there are, there are trigger warnings on the website. I have complicated feelings about trigger warnings, but we still provided that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so complicated. I really thought that it was the heaviest when you, when your eyes were speaking the fuck. Yeah. Say a bad word. But then the interesting part is where I thought, I mean, I'm comfortable with where it just bothers me. It's like, especially this week, where the references were too referential and so to life handy, like throwing mine. You know, watching them. You just throw in my cup away. It's, it's almost meaningless this week. I'm going to pick different other ways. So this is a part of the, this is in this script. This is a reference. This is what he put into it in 1970. Yeah. The question is, then do we remove it? Exactly. So in general, I think that that's such an interesting question with these keys because. So we did feel a form of a formula over different time. And then when you become alive on stage, it's, it's so much more valuable to me. And I'm wanting like, you know, for instance, the granny. So I'm, I guess, am I making this? But I guess. So what I'm trying to say, I guess, is that there are a lot of theatrical gestures. That, that very referential to sneak or any other week. And those are the ones that. That there is a semi-autical violence. And then you embody violence. And the semantics. I'm wondering if it adds something or if the semi-autics. It brings it that create something super more superficial than your embodied violence. I don't know. I mean, I guess that's a critique of the play itself and the play. We're building the whole thing on the play. For me. He has this double back and he has all these elements in the double back, but then start coming these buried, buried things. And I feel that that is about. Our consciousnesses. And that even if we're trying to say, okay, well. The things like grenades. Oh, that's so obvious. My coffee. So obvious. But we carry all this obvious bullshit in this. We're repositories of the culture. The culture just drops the shit in us and we keep it in our duffel bags. And, you know, So what I'm trying to say is that, you know, we're trying to keep it in our duffel bags. And, you know, So that's for me the metaphor. And I think that's a live metaphor. You know, whether, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's a very blunt piece. So I could understand like feeling that it's too blunt or too obvious, but, you know, that's just what it is. I guess my answer is probably this week. It's different. Because there are granny. I think there's something about it's too, too light. No, well, I mean, Or what do we do theater for? Why are we even doing this? If we can't, if we're saying that, oh, we can't listen. I really, I really respect your, what you're saying. And I'm not trying to say that. I think you're wrong. But I feel like what's the answer. We shouldn't do this. We shouldn't be here at this moment. Because it would be wrong or too light. I mean, I think that the reason why I'm in this is because I believe that working in the theater is a machine for empathy and healing. And that we do these things in order to start conversations. And, you know, try to process all this shit, rather than just sitting and like receiving the horrible images and not having a place to come together and express all of it. So it's, it, I think it's a great question to have. I firmly believe that the point is best to continue to do work and continue to ask these hard questions themselves. And there's, there's never not grenades. Yeah, but. This conversation started with someone that's very true. Yeah. And I do think that I'm trying to understand that that's also part of theater. And so when I said that maybe this week, I was more responding to myself than you actually. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it's a big question. I did this. I personally think that. The ultimate answer to that is that we just fucking started. We just stopped doing stuff. And I'm, I don't believe in that. Just to add. There's, for me, when I experienced your performance, whatever the blood, the horror, there is also a level of joy and a visceral sense of excitement that I feel, which is, you might be hearing the most horrible thing, but somehow I'm lifted up by it and excited by it. So I just, I feel like there's that side. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the best thing that you can do it as well. That's. That's important. Also, I want to thank you very much for being here. I just, I want to express love to you right now. And I want to say that. I know this is a very, very difficult piece. And I want to thank you for being here with me and sharing the experience with me. And I just want to say if you want to continue to talk about it. Yeah. Thanks, dude. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's like strong reactions, I think are a beautiful thing, you know, so I appreciate that you have strong. I don't mean that it's. Yeah, it is. It's like we are getting prelude medals, right? We are getting, we're getting the prelude medals. Okay. Yeah. I want that fucking metal. Yeah. One last question. Perhaps. Yes. It's a very good piece. So thank you. I'm thinking about. Thank you so much. I'm thinking about the long history of performers and their confrontational relationships to the audience, which have often been to generate this kind of ambiguity. So I'm thinking about the long history of performers and their confrontational relationships to the audience. Do any of these figures from history feel like they've been visiting you as you've been working on this, or as you look back on it, like, are there any, I know you were offering a couple icons. We were haunted by my father while we were developing the piece. Dad was a, so my father, Rip Torn was good friends with Michael McClure. So he passed a couple of years ago. We were upstate looking for props at his friends house and your friend sees ghosts. And we were looking for a table with that table we got from Ray's barn. And we were there looking for stuff and he had, he knew Tony was my friend that we worked together. No idea who he was or what his last name was. And then. So we walk after we talked to him. We walked in to the historic. He just said, yeah. So after I walked away from you guys, I saw a return walking across the lawn. It was really interesting. And he's just started going on, talking about, you know, what's going on. And I didn't say it first, like, that's my dad. So, and then, you know, but then when we were working on the computer, for some reason we plugged into a soundboard. And both of our computers shorted out. Yeah. So, but I, so I felt like he was like hovering around the project, both being supportive and also a little competitive. So, you know, so we always offer props to, you know, to Rip and Taylor and Michael who are all at this point, angels have passed on to the next round. So thank all of you for, you know, for looking after this piece and being supportive. And then the thing about the thing that got me was a thing about Jen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had a lot of premises, I had an apartment apartment in the U.S. and a small village. Saw Ubu. I didn't know this. And I had come into tell Tony that I had just been reading this interview. And I've been thinking about Genesis, a bunch. Who was to people. Who was the, from psychic TV and Thrabbe Gristle, blah, blah, blah. And I had in like 1994 I was a go-go dancer at limelight at the Pig Face show for Halloween. When Jen was guesting and Jen sang a whole song sitting up on as a Valkyrie. And then I had known Jay, who was, I'm going to get all the pronouns fucked up, who was them, who was half of them, half of the we of them. And then I just read this interview where Jen was saying that Burroughs had told them when they first met, your job now is to tell me how do we disrupt control. And I was like, oh, fuck, write that. And I listened to that interview. I was like, I'm driving to a fucking farm stand to buy cauliflower. And like, that's the question. It's like, right, fuck, right. And I was telling Tony all of this. And then he said, well, we didn't really know that Jen had seen Ubu sing Zulu. I never told Dan the story that two years later, I was walking on Grand Street. And I ran into Jen, they were just walking down Grand Street. Jen came up to me and gave me this big bear hug and said, I saw it. You did it. You should be proud, which is one of the most wonderful moments I've ever had about having a hero, a race, but and in here the story until this week. Yeah. So that's in terms of that thing, in terms of like, that's another guy, angels. Yeah. We also give it up to Jenny Spierge. And now I think, yeah, that's exactly so. Oh, fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you. I think that's it. Thank you so much for coming out. Thank you so much. Thank you.