 Jericho Michael, if you would go ahead and test your audio and visual for us, please. Yeah, can you hear my sound? We can Excellent. All right Yeah, I Have to call in with my phone to make this work when I'm at the office, so Sorry about that. No worries. Totally understand But it looks like we have a quorum. We do correct all right, so let's have the Board members turn their videos on and get their everything going and then we'll get rockin and rollin 436 and I'd like to call them regular meeting of the city of Santa Rosa design review board to order and Pursuant to government code section 54953 e and the recommendation of health officer Officer of the county cinema and design review board members will be participating in this meeting via zoom webinar Members of the public can participate virtually at www.zoom.us Join or by dialing 877-835-257 Both locations using the meeting ID 816-1176-1047 Public access to the meeting is through the zoom platform and can and can they can provide comments during the public comment Periods additional information related to meeting participation is available on the designer view board's website at HTTPS Slash slash srcity.org slash design review board the meeting will be live streamed on the city's website at Santa dash Rosa dot Legistar comm slash calendar click on the in progress link to view the meeting can also be viewed on Comcast channel 28 and On the city's YouTube channel YouTube comm slash city of Santa Rosa So with that I would like to turn it over to the recording secretary for a roll call Let the record reflect that all members are present with the exception of vice chair birch. All right. Thank you I'd like to move on to item two approval of the minutes Is anybody have Directions or changes or adjustments to the august Fourth minutes being none. Let's enter those into the record. Okay, so let's go to item number three public comment This is the time when members of the public May comment on any any any thing other than items on the agenda within the jurisdiction and purview of design reward You may make a public comment on the public hearing items later in the agenda during that scheduled items time frame So I'd like to open public comment now for items not on the agenda We have no hands raised at this time. It's a seeing no hands raised. I'd like to close public comment And then we'll move on to item four board business item 4.1 statement purpose The zoning code zoning code chapter 20 dash 52 dot 0 30 f project review the review authority shall consider location design site planning configuration and the overall effect of a proposed project upon surrounding properties and The city in general review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements consistency of the project city's design guidelines Architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements e.g. city policy statements and development plans I am 4.2 board member reports. Are there any board member reports being done? We'll go to item 4.3 Which is other business and we don't have any we have none So with that I will turn it over to our board liaison Amy, Amy Nicholson for the department report Thank You chair waggle and good afternoon Members of the board. I don't have much to report today except it's it's nice to see you and just a reminder that Item 8.2 is being continued to a date certain. I just wanted to bring that up in the event that anyone's here to Speak on that item And I'm happy to answer any question Hey Amy, so just on that so do we need to vote to continue it to a date uncertain or is that Already the action being taken by city staff Correct. So it's based on the action by the planning commission last week So there's no need for a vote. I just wanted to bring it to the board and the public's attention Okay, and it's a date uncertain still it's not a date certain correct. Okay, cool Perfect. All right. Thank you Thanks again, Amy Item number six statements of abstention. I'm assuming nobody has any Item seven consent items. We don't have any and so with that we will move on to item eight Which is our scheduled items And just real quick here since Amy stated at 8.2 Is it item to be continued to a date uncertain I'd like to Move it up real quick and address it first Was there any member of the public here to make a comment on that project tonight just out of curiosity? If so, please raise your hand in the zoom platform Okay, seeing none. That's great so We'll just go ahead and continue that item to a date uncertain based on action by the planning commission And so I soon will see it again at some point In time so with that I'd like to move back to eight item 8.1 Five nine five Dutton Avenue apartments concept design review for five nine five Dutton Avenue Dr. 22031 And I would like to turn it over to the illustrious plot project planner Susie Murray For a staff report Thank you for that. I'm hoping I Think I shared the wrong screen here Join us again Okay, we're on Can you all see my presentation? Hey, thank you So the project before you this evening is actually a concept design review and it's for the five nine five Dutton Avenue apartments If constructed this how this project would provide five units of very low-income housing and 44 units of market rate housing Just a quick overview of the project is scrap description. It proposes 44 residential units In a four-story apartment building Those units are comprised of one into two bedroom units The project does involve density bonus which will allow either concessions waivers or incentives to development standards typically we see those come in for building high parking and setbacks and It will take access off Dutton Avenue provides 45 parking spaces There will be an on-site management office and some amenities that include both child and pet play areas The the use is permitted by right The only required entitlement is design review the area is in an area that's designated a priority development area and as such it's eligible for the reduced review authority so Translation that means we're here this afternoon for concept design review And with the direction of the design review board The the next the next hearing will be before the design. I'm sorry before the zoning administrator This project will more than likely not come back to the design review board and the event that the zoning administrators action Were appealed it would elevate over the design review board and go to the city council on appeal other meetings that have already taken place are Neighborhood meeting which was just last Monday. I would like to thank I know that the applicant team is here And so are many of the residents that attended that meeting and I'd like to thank both sides for one of the most pleasant Neighborhood meetings I have ever sat through and I've sat through quite a few so The pre-application meeting with staff occurred back in May But here's a Graphic of the general plan and zoning in the area the project is right here Surround or highlighted in blue. It's in an area that's designated as medium high residential and The zoning is consistent with our 330 So what this yellow color is it shows us where there's low density residential? And so one of the design challenges that this project faces is the fact that it is on on either side It's adjacent to single family residential Then of course to the the south it's it's the same medium high residential land use and that property is already developed with attached housing That's a two-story Multifamily housing and then up to the north here It's adjacent to sabastical road and there are a lot of commercial uses up here And again the zoning is consistent in you know all the surrounding areas as well Here's an aerial view of what the site looks like or you know for the most part This might be a year or so old, but it's paved on the Western portion Western two-thirds. I'm sorry Eastern and Unpaved on on that West side To give you an idea of the surrounding development here and you can see again. We've got commercial uses up here We've got single family residential here and here and then Multifamily here Hmm. I'm not going to talk too much about the site plan and I intentionally did not include elevations because I didn't want to Make you guys sit through it twice We the applicant is here and they are going to do a complete presentation, but here's a site plan With the building placed at the northern end of the property parking on the southern end Access this is Dutton Avenue. This is where the project will take access from So we say for the Environmental Quality Act This is not a project and what's not a project is what's before you this evening because no action will be taking We're simply asking for direction On the project plans when this project does move forward It will be subject to the to the environmental the California Environmental Quality Act So with that the applicant and the Planning and Economic Development Department Are requesting that the design review board provide comments and direction for the 595 Dutton Avenue apartment project For it. I did notice there were some callers For anybody who can't see the screen right now. My name again is Susie Murray I'm a planner with the city of Santa Rosa My contact information you if you want to call me and ask me, you know or get any information on the project My phone number is 707 543-4348 And my email is SMURRAY at SRCITY.ORG Always best to try the phone first with me. I'm happy to follow up in writing That concludes my presentation and I know that the applicant Would also like to make one If are you guys ready for the the next one? Yeah, thanks, Susie Yeah, let's just have the applicant go ahead and raise their hand In the meeting there and we'll have the recording secretary give them permission to speak And then we'll do an applicant presentation That'd be great and then we'll we'll go to public comment after that even though this is concept item We do like to hear from the public so we'll go to public comment after that And then we'll do questions from the board of both staff and applicants and then we'll go to comments That's not good with everybody It does and I just meant I just realized that I missed a pretty I left myself a big note that I missed We had quite a few comments from the Neighborhood meeting. Is it okay if I just do a summary of those comments right now? Please that'd be fantastic Susie. Okay. Let me bear with me a sec here Um There was comments about the density Four stories looming over the backyard their concerns about impacts to solar panels on neighboring properties lack of light and existing yards impacts to to You know well established gardens on neighboring properties privacy for the residents that are living in the residential neighborhood to the to the west um with residents looking down on the existing Backyards and what have you noise during periods of construction traffic on both Dutton and Avalon Um and did that you know considering uh bus routes? There was some concern that it was The site was identified as a transit rich area when it's very difficult From or the comment was that it's difficult to get to transit They're with problems that we're having with homeless on encampments on the Joe Rodoto trail And and you know just getting to the train station overall There was concerned about how we were going to regulate parking In terms of development standards back again with building height and setbacks Um Really that the project is not as proposed is not consistent with the the Um develop neighborhood four stories is just too tall Uh need to improve the appearance Or feel of the rear side for existing Avalon residents Um, it's it's proposed too close to a congested intersection with a bike lane Um, so I guess that should be in the overall safety area The rail on the elevated patio I guess it's patio on top of the second floor and there was some concern about kids tossing things out into vehicle traffic Again homeless impacts and the people using that back area on the site plan where the kids play areas proposed for shelter cumulative impacts with other projects under construction in the area california environmental quality act and impacts to california tiger salamander and property values So I just did a quick Summary there and I'm guessing that there will be members from the public that'll enhance those comments a little bit so Thank you for letting me do that and I'll go ahead and get No, thanks Yeah, I appreciate that. It looks like we have applicant vance ready to go and we've got applicant anderson and applicant mckinley So i'm gonna let's turn it over to them um, and uh susie's gonna run your powerpoint And uh, I'll turn it over to you guys Great. Thank you. Thank you board members and thank you susie um My name is cameron vance and i'm here with kaleb mckinley as well We're from cavanaugh properties representing the developer of 595 dotton avenue We are Presidential management development company that focuses on not just providing residents with a safe well maintained home But also fostering a community where each resident knows they are valued We are based in sonoma and san diego counties and own and manage properties throughout california We are long-term owners and do not plan to sell the proposed project For at least 10 years or more We are proposing to develop an underutilized parcel to provide a new 44 unit workforce housing apartment in roseland neighborhood There will be five units reserved for very low income residents Located in a priority development area the project aims to bring more Housing options to a transit rich neighborhood and residents closer to jobs schools and community amenities The project enhances the public realm of the roseland sabastapool road priority area in the following ways It contributes much needed housing in a well considered mix of quality apartment unit types It's located in a walkable bikeable area close to many transit options It's consistent with the goals of the roseland area sabastapool road specific plan and it proposes higher density residential uses in an area that can accommodate growth Due to its proximity to transit and jobs If we advance to the next slide Oh, I think you might have been on the last side of the presentation susie So if we go to the um It's probably the third slide a view of the current There we go. Thank you Um, this is a view of the current site Facing west from dotten avenue. It's a vacant paved parking lot And if we go to the next slide um And if you can Can you go to the full view? It might be a little so We've we've worked with the well known santa rosa-based architectural firm hedge path architects to develop a project that provides an attractive addition to the neighborhood The property would have four stories with elevator service and surface parking There will be an on-site management office to provide full-time customer service to residents Each floor would have secure bike storage as well as temporary bike parking on the ground level outside the property Additional amenities would include in-unit laundry Trash shoots at every level juliet balconies on units that don't have full balconies On-site solar generated power and electric vehicle capable parking In the next slide, please Um The property maximizes valuable land resources by building equitable and sustainable housing on underutilized land Within existing development patterns The project is a compact infill development promoting the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions with reduced parking suited To an area with many transit and residential services the proposed Project is located within two a two mile radius of over 43,000 jobs within a one mile Within one mile of the downtown smart train station um Which mentioned before we know there's issues with the trail, but you can You can easily get to the station by walking down Dutton and then third street Um, we are a quarter mile within numerous bus stops a grocery store public library elementary schools and many other neighborhood services and Can you advance to the next slide? So susie kind of showed this view in the the neighboring properties um The the project is compatible and consistent with the surrounding current property uses in the neighborhood And is designed to promote a beautiful safe and livable community The project integrates market rate with income restricted housing It provides a medium high density housing consistent with the goals and policies of the rosaline specific plan Which encourages more residential housing near workplaces school stores and community amenities And if you advance, I think we'll cycle through the highlighted different uses multifamily um single family There's the library the bank some and then many retail uses And then the next slide this is a bird's-eye view of the elevation from the southeast The proposed project engages the community by developing new affordable housing on a vacant site in an amenities rich urban context without Placing existing residents or existing affordable units in the next slide The proposed design supports bicyclists and pedestrians reduce parking supports urban design sustainable principles um If we advance one it'll show the highlighted area is the proposed 45 electric vehicle capable parking stalls And if you advance again, we'll see the highlighted in blue two accessible stalls And then advance again, um, there will be Short-term biking stalls on the exterior and this highlighted area is where the internal secure bike storage would be at every level of the building and If we advance again, we'll show highlighted in green at the front of the property On the first floor ground floor would be an enclosed community lounge with free wi-fi service computers and printers for the residents on the second floor is proposed a fitness center and on the third story is an outdoor community roof terrace And if you advance one more highlighted at the rear of the property is a proposed uh recreation area And we Ended up orientating the site this way believing that if we had one building um to the north We're aligning it along the other commercial uses and it's the farthest away from other Residential uses as opposed to breaking it up into multiple buildings and having it pushed back Or to the south If we advance one more The project provides affordable housing choices to city residents projected market rents for one and two bedroom units fall below The current county's definition of 100 income level rent limits for residential affordable housing This means that market rate housing at this project creates a naturally occurring moderate income level of affordable housing The proposed unit mix includes 21 bedroom units Three two bedroom one bath units and 18 two bedroom two bath units We couldn't advance to the next slide This it's a very tight site And the landscaping options were limited, but we believe This preliminary design We're able we're able to add a lot of trees to the site That would provide shade privacy And retain stormwater additional bio planters are along the front of the building All vegetation will be drought tolerant species with only drip irrigation if needed And the next slide This is the elevation from the south looking at the main entrance In towards the middle of the building We have proposed julia balconies on this side and The preliminary kind of materials we're showing here is a board form concrete on the the gray area at the bottom Is a cement fiber board that's made to look like Board form concrete and the upper level would be a Cement fiber board material as well. We don't show color variation here, but we do have The different architectural pop outs that we would Find some color variation To kind of break break that up. I know Initially people look at this and thought it was a little too white and stark Though we're we're continuing to work on that if we advance to the next slide Some of examples of the proposed trees that were in the landscaping plan as well as the exterior materials and If we can go to the next slide And that concludes our presentation We believe our proposed project will have a positive community impact and look forward to adding much needed additional housing to the city And we look forward to listening to our neighbor's comments and the board's comments Thank you this time. I'd like to go to public comment So if you are a member of the public and you would like to comment on this project Please raise your hand in the zoom platform and then the recording secretary will acknowledge you and You will have three minutes to speak On this item when the time runs out if you're not done, I will likely politely interrupt you Because we'd like to get everybody to have their their three minutes. Keep in mind This is not a public hearing So these are just public comments that then hopefully will inform some questions from the board And some potential comments from the board which will then all be forwarded to the zoning administrator when final determination made on the project So with that I will turn it over to the recording secretary The first speaker will be Gregory Farron. Mr. Farron, if you would please state your name for the record You have been given permission to speak Thank you very much. My name again is Gregory Farron I'm basically just going to try to convince the applicant that very low income is too high And you know, it's basically a A subsidy for some of the residents and we do it all over the city and The question I'm or the request I'm making is that They lower it to Either all or some portion of it to extremely low And the reason I'm I'm suggesting that is that Both the residents of this area and the residents of our city Mostly are making extremely low income wages If anyone wants to go into detail, I'll I'll be glad to Go into great detail, but basically our our low income very low income category in the rent levels Equal about the same dollar as percentages. So if you say 50 percent of the income And this very low income is aimed at 50 percent of very low income. So those five units that you're Proposing are basically aimed at people who are making $50,000 a year Family of three or four is roughly around 50 I'm arguing it it should be 30 and not 50 and the reason for that is most of the I'm arguing for moms and kids I I spent my life helping moms and kids get public resources and so 50 percent A mom would have to earn $24 an hour at a full-time job In order to get anywhere near $50,000 a year And they're just starting a whole lot of those moms around most moms are not making $50,000 a year They're mostly making a little above Minimum wage which comes down to about 30 34 thousand dollars a year and that's what extremely low is So you're targeting people who are not moms and kids In this community You're targeting folks who I'm not sure who who's making 50,000 A year who have kids by the time you pay for childcare and Even with subsidies of food stamps and Medi-Cal and everything else we can do It's really hard to exist on 30,000 And so the the folks making 50 are going to find housing elsewhere This this project is not going to be the kind of mix of income and public That I think you think it is So I'd like you to think about that that 360,000 that you're getting in rent For the 15 additional density can certainly pay for more than low income What you're having to pay or what you're foregoing in low income is about 12,000 dollars a year About a thousand per unit That's There's more than enough in the 360 you're making to pay for 12 And I suggest that you ought to think about paying more by going into a deeper subsidy And including Extremely low Thank you very much The next speaker will be mark anisilario Mr. Anisilario if you would go ahead and introduce yourself for the record Hi, this is mark and rebecca anaclerio I would like to speak first and then give mark the opportunity to continue Um Hang on Absolutely, we'd love to have both of you speak Um, but let's go ahead and do this since you're both on the same call So you go ahead and speak for three minutes and then we'll stop you and then we'll have the recording secretary restart And then have your husband introduce himself. Does that sound like a good plan? Thank you. I appreciate that Awesome. Thank you so much. Sorry about that. Please continue. Sorry to interrupt. Thank you our concerns For the project are the visual impact on the neighborhood the privacy impact the noise impact and the light impact The visual impact is we just don't feel a White four-story building goes along with the neighborhood Where all the other buildings two stories is the maximum height so far We have bought our properties with the expectations that that property behind us would be developed We're at 520 avalan directly behind the building And we always figured there would be a development that may be two stories. And so, you know The aspect of four stories is pretty daunting to us We are wondering if anything can be done to soften that western facade maybe a step back Of the third and fourth levels something like the front of the building Lighting in the building. We haven't talked about that if if there's going to be lights exterior That might be facing towards our properties And if something could be done so that they're not Illuminating our backyards at all hours of the night Also, if maybe the windows if some of the south facing windows There's can be some kind of privacy coding where there's like a limitation of the degree of visual field That can be seen so we don't feel like people are peering at us from the upper stories Light is a huge concern for us. We I did get a chance to glance at this shadow study It does appear that we will lose our light in our backyard for several hours every morning And that's a huge concern. We enjoy our backyard. We are early risers. We we rise with the sun I like the the sun coming in my bedroom window, which is to the rear of the property We have a garden in the rear of the property that will leave that light And so we're just wondering if there's With maybe the reduction in the size of the building if that would help that The the shadow That's going to be cast on our property The playground is a bit of a concern because of noise Also, you know, is it going to be super supervised? Will there be a curfew? Is there maybe a possibility of changing this to a garden area instead? The setback on that it looks like it's only maybe 15 or 20 feet Between my back fence and this building that is a great concern to us. We'd love a little more space, please I'm going to go ahead and It conclude my portion and mark is ready to go whenever you are ready for you. Thank you Mr. Anaclerio, it looks like All right, go ahead. Looks like we're reset. That's all I was gonna say. Okay. All right, you guys. Okay. Thanks for hearing us all right, um, my part on this is, uh Obviously the back fence I've uh got a please also state your name your oh, I'm mark for the record. Sorry Sorry, man, uh mark anaclerio I live in 520 Avalonia My part on this is uh the back fence my back fence or our back fence is A living fence that spent most of 30 years growing This beautiful fence that goes up to this my Monterey pine, which is about I don't know 100 feet tall and my concern is To You know take it out. I'm not sure how this fence line and your fence line is going to work out so really concerned that You can be able to work around What we've grown back there to keep it keep it alive and the Monterey pine itself It's like a 30 foot apron maybe 20 to 30. I'm not quite sure but Hopefully we can it won't die If you cut off, you know, if you're planning on trimming it or I don't know what what's gonna happen there So I was hoping to keep that in your mind to keep that alive would be nice to have that going on And also, you know the softening of the building We might drain it is another Sorry, um, I apologize. It seems like your audio was cutting out. I just wanted to make sure that you were Speaking so that everyone could hear you. Oh, okay Um, is that better? Yes. Thank you. Okay Uh, what was I? Oh, yeah, so I was worried about the drainage. I'm just assuming this but I'm not an expert at drainage I'm figuring with the construction of this project that we become the low we become lowland and I'm you know, what do you guys uh plans for not having the the storm water You know coming to our property and flood our property Um, if we ever get rain But uh And when it rains pretty good, you know, our property kind of fills up with water So I'm assuming that with the asphalt and the buildings that we be, you know, that property rises Which makes us a low line. So hopefully you can keep Our think about that and keep the see what we can do if you can tell me how you I think that's about Yeah, that's that's pretty close to it for me on that on my part I Let's like to don't hopefully you can soften the back of the building for us that would be Really appreciated to be able to push that back a couple of steps. So we we don't feel so Engrossed, I guess All right, thank you The next public comment will be from the baggots Followed by Stephanie Picard Bowen Heather baggots if you would you have been given permission to speak if you would introduce yourself Is heather baggots? I live on avalon avenue and um One of the ways that we thought might be good to help soften the building was There's a lot of local muralists that work in the area They just a lot of work in roseland wouldn't it be great if the Residents of dentin and avalon avenue and the area see a mural rather than a big white Start building that doesn't fit into the neighborhood I'm sorry. I have a baby here. She's here. Her crying um also The traffic in the area is a big concern the proposed area We fear will be an increased number of traffic collisions at the light sabastopol and dentin avenue There's weekly weekly Traffic collisions on parked cars that so we worry about safety of the residents. There's a bike lane in the center Of the vehicle flow, which we see will be a huge issue and safety issue as well As well as the double yellow crossing that happens all the time. It's just making a bad In addition to the flooding the current Um high residential area the current apartment building So behind that the backyards constantly flood at every time it does rain. So it is a big issue that we are concerned about The um residents of avalon avenue They can see Maybe native plants backed up along the back fence There's a lot of trees plants. None of them are native. Um, so it'd be great to see maybe some native plants in the area And i'll just go ahead and stop there. I do apologize I'm a crying baby. I think we've all been there with kids and craziness over this uh pandemic scenario. I know for me Running drb meetings over the last couple years. I've had my kids running around in the background over the place So not a big deal at all Thank you No, no problem at all. Um, so recording section. Let's uh go to the next person The next person I'll uh, will be stephanie carg vewin stephanie if you would please introduce yourself for the record Hi, good afternoon, uh chair weigel board members and staff. My name is stephanie carg vewin And I am the operations and development director for generation housing Where we champion for more more diverse and more affordable housing here in sonoma county Generation housing is proud to support a project that has earned our highest level of endorsement to five nine Five dot nav new is a shining example Of what our community should be embracing when it comes to higher density in filled development It's full of amenities and close proximity to the joe rdota regional trail highway 12 101 And a variety of essential services Five nine five dot nav new is the type of project We should be modeling in the city of santa rosa as we work towards achieving a more vibrant resilient and transit oriented future While we understand that no decision is being rendered tonight and this is a pre-application meeting We do feel compelled to speak in support of this project as noted in our endorsement letter on file We did request that the applicant explore opportunities for a small on-site community gardening space Amenities such as this would promote healthier lifestyle and can play an important role in creating community cohesion Among residents in the building Once again, we are proud to endorse five nine five dot nav new and are excited to see this project Realized within the rosalyn priority development area. Our gratitude goes out to the design team Developer and city staff for moving this important project forward as always. Thank you for your service and have a wonderful evening And there are no additional raised hands at this time Oh, I apologize that There is an additional speaker mr. Cliff wagan mr. Wagan if you would please introduce yourself for the record Mr. Wagan Okay, now can you hear me? Yes, we can thank you. My name is cliff wagan I'm a property owner at 207 sabbatical road Which is part of the roberts district which is catty corner to this project Uh, this project looks good to me. It's it's four stories high, but I hear a lot of objections to that height limit Our property is a 6.0 floor area ratio Which to build it will require seven stories And our shadow is going to overshadow this project But it's infeasible to build that density in san rosa. It's just doesn't happen We would like to build this kind of project on our properties Which is the whole three blocks from Dutton to the grain silos From sabbatical road to redotta trail And uh, I would have been better prepared for this, but I didn't receive the notice I got it from my neighbor who got a copy on mail. I did not I did not get a copy of the marijuana project that you Approved a few months back either and I'm a property owner and I actually live on the property But this this project the affordable housing element of it seems a little low. I mean If you're going to give affordable housing, you got to get down to the people making 25,000 30,000 a year 50,000 a year And that's you don't make that an amenable wage. That's for sure um So consideration should be given whatever it takes to lower it to where you can truly make an affordable housing If it's only the five units five units to someone that's making 24 to 30,000 a year means something To somebody that's already making 50,000 a year They can move elsewhere. There's lots of places. They could live and afford it Anyway, that's my comment. I would appreciate getting notifications So I would have liked to have attended the neighborhood meeting But like I said, I didn't get notice of this until yesterday afternoon And my neighbor didn't get it until Tuesday morning in the neighborhood meeting was on Monday Okay, thank you The next speaker will be Daniel Baggett. Uh, actually, can I can I cut in real quick? Sorry? I was just going to say uh to mr Wiggum um If you have if you had an issue receiving notices or whatever, please contact the city directly Um, the planning and economic department. I think we'll be happy to help you with that In terms of perhaps they have an error Um in a mailing address p.o. Box, etc So please contact them directly to see if all of your information is correct of the city While you wouldn't be receiving notification. Thanks Mr. Bagnet, if you would please introduce yourself for the record Hi, uh, can you hear me? Yes Hi, my name is Daniel Baggett. I live at six one or sorry, uh, 530 Avalon Avenue. I'm Heather's husband I'm late to join her and let's do the work Uh, but I will continue where she started Traffic is a major concern that we have with this area, uh I drive to uh to work on Deighton Avenue Every day and on monday. I used to get a treacle out of watching the Carnage of destruction going down from people ping pong down the street I can only imagine that uh with the added traffic of a 44 unit apartment complex will Uh could only increase this Along with that, uh, the light there at Detmans fast school road Is it kind of a nightmare if you have to travel it regularly? It can easily take us on Avalon Avenue About 20 minutes to get onto highway 12 just to fight through that light Beyond just this project the compounding effects of all the other building developments going on in that area of town Really concerned me through the added load on that intersection. There's also tons of traffic collisions at that intersection That we hear Probably in an every other day setting I would say I haven't looked at uh accident report forms yet I haven't been able to find them There is also a proposed Plan from what I saw to add a bike lane to the center Between left or between a turn and a straight That is another area of concern of mine given all the other traffic incidents that occur in that area Anyone who has spent much time at that light there at Detmans fast school road has witnessed countless WO crossings all the time for leaving either the 711 the bank the jack in the box Or the market there at that corner I can only imagine all these issues will just increase the elevated housing Right there that close with really no other option to leave that area Uh on top of that if you drive down there's constant backup from vehicles making left hand turns and there's no way to Clear way to really pass around them. You can have it go Back up going almost all the way from the bank to the stop sign. I believe it's West no not best happen. It's the street right before. I don't know the name off at the top of my head the mass transfer transit rich area was brought up from the developers and there is some Transit in the area however To get to the smart train. It's a 20 minute walk at least and you have to go through the Homeless encampments around there, which are not really I would not consider that to be a real safe area no matter what There is bus service in the area, but uh anyone who's really tried to buy the bus around town If you need to drive 10 minutes, it'll take you over an hour generally on public transit for waiting until the next bus to take you up and talking probably off For the parking issue, they only have 45 parking spots and that's another major concern of mine Is they're going to charge for parking permits. So what if people have cars and they don't Want to pay for Parking spot. I have a strong inclination. They'll be parking over on my street on Avalon as that is the closest street We already have this issue with another apartment complex in the area Beyond that what's going to be happening or how will the issue be addressed? Uh residents that have more than one vehicle And yeah, uh, where will guest park at the area? Uh and then some of the other notes I have are The privacy in our backyards, that's another major concern We just moved in we've lived on Avalon for 12 years But we just bought this property that we live at now and we've got a little seven month old The idea of having four stories of people peering into our back yard as we raise our daughters Very off-putting to me. I would love if there would be a way that we could put a angle limiting Polarizing film on the windows that we had a little bit more privacy in our backyard. We wouldn't have people staring at us and our daughter uh We're all avid gardeners on this area and just The fact that we'll have I think we I think daniel you've gone past your three minutes I don't look like there was an error on the timer there. Yeah, all right. Thank you Thank you chair where I go. There are new additional hands raised at this time All right. Thanks so much. All right, we'll go uh to The board now we'll bring back the board and um Questions of staff and the applicant based on Both what you heard in the presentations and the public comment Uh, I'm going to put a board member sharing in the hot seat tonight. So adam you're uh Um, great. Well, that fits with the weather this week. So thanks for the hot seat um Yes, um All the members of the public for showing up. Um and commenting. We definitely appreciate Your comments and provides really good context for us. Um Thank you applicant for great presentation for bringing the project and thank you plan to murray for your presentation as well um, I had a um just one question um Susie's uh, just could is a procedural question. Um, could you uh, you mentioned at the beginning that this is not a project? for, you know, sequa determination, but um, uh When just for the for the public will illuminate when in the project, uh, process the traffic impacts that he's going to happen so People know it's going to happen. So I I think they've actually already prepared a traffic analysis We won't we won't review that analysis until we receive the The project the formal applications and this meeting needed to occur before that the application is accepted. This is a This is a prerequisite to a formal application submittal. So we will as far as the traffic impacts If they haven't already gotten it they will get it and our staff will our traffic engineers will review it. So Awesome. Thank you for that. I think I'm gonna add. Hey adam, can I cut in? I think I'm seeing something here Then then I appreciate Susie's comments. So maybe this will help the public a little bit too So the process for a project of this nature that is a housing project Is uh, actually most projects really in the city center of uh, but most projects start off with concept design review and when you come to concept design review what you're Realistically doing is you're proposing a project to the designer review board to get kind of initial feedback And kind of like hey is my project viable? What do you guys think? About the project etc. And so many times a lot of the information like traffic studies environmental impact, you know Environmental impacts by logic studies those types of things. They might they may be in process Or not even started yet based on where the applicant is in their process in terms of their entitlement and so um This so again, again, like Susie said, this is part of the process to get towards an entitlement and concept design review Is one of those things to kind of move me to the next step and then being a housing project in a priority development district Um, this parcel is permitted to do what's called refuse reduced review authority Which essentially means that a concept design review is the only kind of board action that happens And that's why we want to collect as much information as we can at this time in terms of public comment And also the board's comments and then that all gets packaged together along with Traffic impact reports any environmental studies that may be required for the parcel etc And then that gets put forth before the zoning administrator, which is still an entitlement action it's just uh, what's called reduced review authority and uh, that's uh ordinance The that got enacted a couple years ago by city council in terms of accelerating Uh project timelines for housing specifically In priority development districts and that's determined by the zoning code and Amy and Susie can yell at me I've gotten anything wrong Um, but I think if I hope that provides some context to the public in terms of kind of where we are um, and then also if a project, um sees a lot of uh public comment or issues or what have you then um staff see that always has the ability to elevate the project back to design review for review or if in fact like I think the project uh, I think it's appealed At the zoning industry, I think it might come back to us. I might be messing that up and it might go to city council I can't remember Amy can you correct me on that one? Sure, so you are correct. Um chair that um The staff does have the ability to elevate What could be approved by the zoning administrator to the design review board for the first action on the design review approval? um or action however, if The zoning administrator were to act on the design review Um, it would be appealed to the to the council just because the design review board had previously acted on the project or Comments it on the project during concept review. So any zoning administrator decisions Pursuant to this reduced review authority are actually appealed straight to the council That's right. I always forget that part Thanks Does that help you add them a little bit too in terms of some of your question that you had? Yeah, I just wanted to get that clarification for the public to let them know I mean because these concerns are all really valid and you know traffic is a really important one But just in terms of our purview here tonight. This is still really early days But it it's all really valuable The things that are being brought up because there are things that we can also comment upon And also these comments do go to the zoning administrator. So not necessarily our purview tonight, but we um That's all it's all great stuff And it will be dealt with things like the traffic and the lighting also It's part of the final design review. This is concept. We will get a lighting plan or the zoning administrator will get a lighting plan So um, but uh, you know, all of these things are being brought up. Um, you know, stay stay involved It's another concern. So um, but that was exactly and uh, I'm sorry adam one more thing while we're talking about The zoning administrator meeting just for the public zoning administrator meeting is noticed I think almost in a similar way as design review board. It's a public meeting and you can't attend it I believe So that's something that you guys want to do Um As well. Did I get that right Susie? You did and it'll be a public hearing and it'll be held at five o'clock in the afternoon We have special meetings for these housing projects proposed in priority development areas So the noticing will be almost identical to what We do for the design review board Pretty interrupt again adam. I apologize All right, it's a team effort Yeah, team. Um, yeah, I did have just one quick question for the applicant and I believe it's apparent on the on the plan set and what it's called out, but for the um The west face um, the west elevation of the building. Um near the neighbors the uh, the windows that are specced over there. Those are the The Try again you try again you cut out you cut out real bad try again I think your headphones are dying or something Okay, okay, is everybody else having problems hearing adam just to make sure yes, okay. It's not just me. Okay. All right. Let's try again adam Uh, how about now? I'm going with old school is the go into the computer. Um Okay, so the the for the applicant um the west elevation the west face there it's I believe it's specced on the plans. I just wanted to double check that the windows that are specced there are the um, the sliding windows or um, are they fixed? Are they proposed to be fixed or are they um openable operable windows? Actually, I think I can answer that and maybe they can confirm it looks like on the west elevation There are some upper casements and then everything else is fixed at least based on the elevation, but maybe Ingrid Anderson from hedge pep could answer that Yeah, let Ingrid but you're talking about the back bedroom window, which would be Basically a stack of four units that is along the stair well That would be facing the neighbors to the back Yeah, and and you know, um, just uh, just double checking that that it is indeed they are operable and how much of the window is operable to be opened Um, if it's sliding or if it opens up just um What's proposed? Yeah, suzie. Can we this is concept? So yeah, I'm gonna ask suzie to bring something up adam while we're doing this Susie, can you bring up the applicant presentation? Uh Actually, no, you know what if you can bring up the The project plan set um to page Make it 12 any of the floor plans and then Yeah, the elevations. I think that'd be helpful and then it looks like Ingrid's raised her hand um, I just wanted to clarify that The windows in the rear on the west face of the building are windows to Four apartments or five apartments There's only one set of apartments facing the west side of the building And those windows can be fixed. There are other windows in that bedroom that can serve as egress windows Okay, so there's north windows. Good. Yes. Okay. Um, yep. Thank you, Ingrid. Um, that helps Those in the center are concerned and I just wanted to clarify for everybody. Thank you And the plan's attachment is almost open. Give me just one minute Mm-hmm Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that Um, while that's opening uh, anything else adam, are you good? That's it for me. Thank you Cool. So let me go over to board member staff. Uh, mark. You got any questions of staff or the applicant? Um, mine were answered during the uh, the transit study portion of the conversation So thanks for walking us through that. No other questions from me Okay Thanks mark and then we'll go to john uh board member mckew question Yes, I've got a couple And and this one goes to staff Uh, who sets the affordable housing subsidy? Uh, that's not something that would be under our purview, but for the public Where would they go to to Talk about that or learn about that but We have I'm almost there with the plans guys. It's just a huge document. Um, we have we have our density bonus ordinance And in there it specifies if you know, x number of units are proposed for the x income level Then they get x benefit additional units or concessions are called out there. There's also the state where We're not aligned with the state because the state has changed their regulations several times Um, and I can give give people if they want to get a pencil. I can give you the ordinate or the State uh measure number that you can look at it's 65915 That's the state density bonus law and we will defer to that When we're not aligned with it so It all depends on what they propose What that what what benefits they get? Okay, I was I was interested in that just so the members of the audience know Where to go to to to learn about the subsidies Uh, the second question I I have is for the applicant and and maybe for snap um Is there a color palette that you're considering to maybe Have a different color than than the cream color you're you're Showing in the in the plans because I think To me anyway, it's a little bland and and I'm wondering If you've got a palette and if you do is that something the zoni administrator would take a look at and have to Act on or or make a judgment about So john I'm gonna actually somewhat half answer that and then like we can let the applicant finish maybe So I think it's our job right now to make comments on the color palette So if you have a specific comment, you know when we move to comment you have a specific comment about You know Kind of the more general comments that we've made before more bright colors variation of color, etc I think that's actually something we should do as a board as what we're seeing as presented Now, of course, I think the applicant indicated during your presentation that this was not their Full intent, I guess is is what I would say they were working continuing to work on it as this is a concept level So maybe they have an additional comment about the color kind of what you're asking about Um, yes, this is Cameron. Thank you. I I I know ingrid's been thinking about it And she hasn't I don't believe made any elevations with some options um I think you know, we are definitely open to hearing what In the way, uh, what we'd like to maybe see in the neighborhood what your opinions might be um As far as you know muted colors or brighter colors or some sort of style that you think might be appropriate What we're thinking is You know right now it's kind of neutral and what would happen is the um Basically the relief points would probably be one a different color Than the pop out areas and that would at least give it some it wouldn't look so bland and And it would help highlight some of the different architectural definition that we have but Um, if ingrid if you have any any comments on on what you've been thinking about but, um Certainly open to suggestion at this point The the material that we can you hear me? Okay Excuse Yep, we can hear you. Okay. Um the material we are selected Is called sarah clad and it comes in a variety of colors and textures so, um We wanted to hear the board's point of view but I Uh wanted to concur with Cameron and Caleb our clients that We were going to apply or suggest applying different colors to the to the different bays and possibly um, also since the sarah clad material comes in 18 inch by 48 inch panels that um, we could apply the color selectively to create a Uh A quote like effect or a patterning color across the facade Thank you. Thanks ingrid. Thanks Cameron. Uh, john, anything else? No, that was those questions ahead. Thank you. Um This I think this is a question for staff Um, I was looking at the parking on and susie since you have this open Go to page Six of that packet you got it open there And it looked to me like the spaces were The compacts were nine by 14 and the standards were nine by 17 which would lead me to believe that they're utilizing The nine by 19 and nine by 16 standards for a 26 inch axis aisle But I just wanted to make sure and then also this this parcel isn't subject to the downtown Parking reduction size, right? It's outside the downtown requirements, correct? Yes, it's outside of the downtown requirement and as far as Doing an analysis on the parking spaces. There has been no analysis done whatsoever on this project yet. Um, I you guys are seeing you're you're probably doing the first analysis I just uploaded a second. Yeah Yeah, and maybe maybe ingrid might be able to answer that for me I just was I was seeing that and I just want to make sure we weren't subject to the downtown Requirements, which are a little bit smaller spaces And it looks like they're utilizing the standard with the two foot overhang that's permitted and so ingrid can you just verify that for me? Yes, that's correct. We're overhanging the bio retention area on the south And overhanging the sidewalk on the north And then how big is the dry vial? I just didn't see a dimension for it on the plan. I may have missed it It's 26 feet wide Oh, there it is. It's hiding from me. Okay 26. All right, perfect Okay, and all right, so you got and then You have you guys met and ingrid I get started. There's another question for you Have you met with fire at all about the hammerhead in the back? And how it's kind of offset ish from the dry vial Yes, we have um you have and they're okay with this At this point They are okay with it, but um We will have bill um boreolo and bkf Do an analysis help us to do an analysis of the turning Required there to make sure the fire department is Going to be all right with it, but I have run it past paul under With paul low and tall for review Okay, cool. Yeah, I just was looking at that and I noticed the offset and The hammerhead and all that I just so I just got to scratch in my head a little bit, you know, also being an architect I just looked a little goofy to me But if fires started to look at it and bkf's gonna weigh in it, I'm sure that we'll have a solution That meets all the requirements when it's said and done. So let me see here On my rest of my questions Um And I wanted to address these some of the questions from the public So from a lighting perspective, uh, just so the public knows All projects are required to submit a lighting plan An exterior lighting plan and I think by ordinance all parcels Can't have their lighting spill onto other parcels And so that would be submitted as part of the documents For review by the zoning administrator And uh, so they'd be required to not have, you know, light spilling over onto back parcels side parcels, etc Um, the privacy coding on the glazing, um, I'm gonna leave that hang on. I'm gonna come back to that one. Um Questions on drainage also with regard to drainage Um, each individual parcel has to be able to drain itself. I think to the public utility wherever the storm line is And so they're not permitted to Dump drainage on adjacent parcels Uh, so that's something that I think the applicant would be required to do by the city in terms of both the, uh There's a preliminary grading plan requirement For zoning administrator and then also during a building plan check when they put all this in to get approved and get a building permit Um, they'll need to submit their grading plans and drainage plans and all that stuff. And so the parcel is You know, I don't think bkf would ever do this. They're a great civil engineering firm in town Um, they would not be allowed to start dumping Stormwater runoff and things onto adjacent parcels um per for the requirements of the building permit process And I so then I was going to come back to the applicant In terms of privacy coding on windows. Do you guys have a plan for that? Are you thinking about that? Is that something you've considered against, you know, based on the adjacency to uh, all the other parcels in the city? Uh, we haven't considered it, but um now hearing about it, um We definitely won't. Thanks for that. Um So I guess the only other thing was the sun study Um, and I noticed that the sun study was late correspondence from the applicant Um, did we want to talk about that at all? Did everybody get a chance to look at that at least from a board perspective? Did we have any questions on it other than the adjacent parcels are going to be shadows? All right, cool as long as we didn't have any questions internally Okay, so with that any other comments or questions from the board? Okay, not seeing any we will go to comment From the board. I'm going to try to take notes. Um, so we'll put adam in the hot feet again here And uh, we'll go to comment on the project um and adam I think would be uh the The package open if you want to go you want to start with landscape or you want to go to architecture I mean we can direct Susie to I think uh age 15 if you want to talk about landscape I'll just dive dive right in. Um I talked about other things other than landscape to drew But it's true I will be talking about that. Um, uh, yes, um Yeah, um Definitely supportive of the project. I appreciate um the the efforts to to bring this in um to the neighborhood and to the city and the The ideals behind it. Um And um, also, um, it very glad to hear um that the The neighborhood meeting was um, it was a great one that Susie mentioned. It was, you know, the most uh, you know, um, you know A coordinate one in accordance that she's she's been doing in a while. So that's really great to hear. We like to hear Um, specifically applicants. Um, really working with their neighbors. Um, his neighbors do have valid concerns Um, and even with things that are that are brought up tonight. Um, so thank you very much. Um, applicant team for being uh Being open to that um Yes, so, um Yeah, uh, let's see feedback For the project. Um A couple of things um Yeah, I I I do appreciate, um You know, this is a tight site and and I um appreciate um that you're really maximizing um The housing that you're bringing in here and while also providing space on the southern side The primary impacts of any shade are going to be to the to the north To already, you know commercial properties there. There will be some morning shading. Um, but that will um You know, the the sun will move. Um, so it's an unfortunate byproduct, but it is permitted. Um, You know by right for this property um So I I appreciate, um The the use of the site. Um, I would like to see um Uh In in light of of how how much you you kind of have to to accommodate in here, especially with the firetruck access and um with the parking uh and any relief that you can possibly do to to um add more trees You know any kind of orchard style parking any sidewalk Or yeah orchard style trees there. Um any sidewalk trees that you can add into the center portion of the site. Um, it's it's a broad swath of South facing asphalt. Um, and so that's going to be a heat sink and then a heat radiator For your your building. Um, and then also just for the neighborhood in general. Um, so if there's a way, you know, again It's very very tight and um, I know that don McNair Will be thinking about these things as the project moves forward but I think that any any relief that you can give to that that south facing face of the building and um The the asphalt and the parking will um definitely be in your your benefit. Um Uh Um along the western edge of the the property. Um any any um additional screening that you can possibly um provide along um that Uh that side of the of the project will be um one good just for adding more greenery and more um vegetative relief but then also for the screening portion for the um The bag at family and next door. Um and for um, um, you know, just the neighbors in general there. Um, and also providing a nice um soft Perimeter to the to the to the site as well. Um, you've done that on the streetscape, um, which is great But I think that the western side could deal with some more. Um Some more love there Again, it's it's it's real tight. Um the uh the play area. I mean this this um, ideally will be Attracting families. Um play areas is always a good thing to have there. Um I do think that the screening um is going to be important um You know and any any kind of um, you know whims you can add to it So it doesn't just feel like it's kind of shoehorned into the corner there If there's any way to to to ring out some more of the site some more usable space would be really really great. Um Uh Moving into the architecture there. Um Trash enclosure, um in in your you know, it's early days, of course, but your your renderings you have just kind of a CMU box there no roof. Um, I know you'll be thinking about that, but um, it's going to be Really apparent as you pull into the site. Um, the way you've got it situated there. It's at the very end of the driveway so Having something, you know treating that as a visual visual asset too will be really great rather than just having um Something that's uh, you know kind of it it's not going to be tucked away behind the building It's going to be front and center there. So people are going to see it. So um, really thinking about that and the access there um As far as the the architecture itself, um, I think this is a We you know that I think it's a it's a lovely building for the site. Um, so well done on that And I know that Hedgepeth architects is going to they um, you um always do well with um color choices and And providing things that are um Really sensitive to the site. I think one one of the things you can do with this is uh Is really looking at the area as well. Um, some um, you know, the The complimentary muted tones that that I've seen on other developments. You've done are great. Um, but uh, you know, thinking of the the All the murals that are around in the roseland area Um the colors that are around um as was mentioned, you know, thinking of the metote food park that's there really, um Having some some kind of slight pops of bright color Um, could be really interesting as well and adds add, you know Add to the vibrancy go with the vibrancy of roseland and the of the sabastable corridor Try not not don't try necessarily to all do kind of muted and and blend in but have have some splashes of something Really, um fascinating, whether that's, you know, it could be, you know You know doors or or some some kind of accent here and there up high where it catches people's eyes Um, both from, you know on the site Or on the neighborhood and then from far away when people can see it They can see you have something to grab some eyes the idea of a mural on on that western wall is a really interesting one as well Um thinking going a large scale. Um having something splashed across that whole Face would be really great because then you have a huge canvas to work with and there are wonderful Um, uh partners to work with in the neighborhood Um, you know working with creative sonoma working with the mural project that's there Mural projects in the midst of a really great Initiative for that whole sabastable street corridor This could be a really great one to to add in there and um You know as generation housing said and as the applicant said this is um, you know, uh, it's it's adding Really vibrant housing into the to the community and so make this um really mesh it in as much as possible um and Yeah, um, I think that will do it for my comments. Um, thanks again for Uh improving upon, you know, uh parking lot that's in the neighborhood and fill housing is wonderful So thank you very much for for doing this in the affordable housing aspect is really great So thanks very much and I look forward to seeing this, uh, move on through Thanks adam. Uh, we'll go to board member stop for his comments on the project I think I may again going to pretty much just second what um board member Sharon said I'm very supportive of this project. Um, a really thoughtful approach. Um, and it's an it's an interesting site In that you are tied in to that to um the public transit and children go to trail And the rosalina area I particularly would second, um adam's point about Tying this in closely to a lot of the visually interesting aspects of subat of sabastopol road and that in that area um I love this design. I like the architectural elements in particular the um the the roof overhangs I think that's that's an that's an interesting touch to the building um, but if there are ways whether it's murals or whether it's colors to um to tie it into Some of the interesting things that are happening in rosalina right now. That's a that's a great idea Um, and then finally just that western facade To the extent there's some way to with with landscaping with murals Um with softening that that facade in some way just um just for for the benefit of the of the neighbors in the back Um, uh, that's that's probably worth thinking about again as well Um, but beyond that this is just a really a really nice approach to this site And yeah, thank you. Thank you for bringing such a such a thoughtful plan forward That's it for me board member ecu Yes, uh Thank you drew I like the design and I like the amenities that you provided. Um, I do have I support um Member Sharon's comments with regarding to the color and and And I am I'm a little flamux to the sense that I would have liked to have had you as the applicant Have some discussion and some examples of some of the things that you're thinking about with respect to the to the building Colors and what you were even if that's it's not settled something that would have Uh, given me an opportunity to tell you what I like or I don't like or what I think would be Uh, would be attractive And also I think in terms of of the public who is who is here They also would appreciate your thoughts even though we know that that isn't the the final Plan Same way with lighting. I mean that came up in public comments about lighting It would have been nice if we you could have shared the lighting plan so that we can at least see What you're what you're planning to do. I think that would be very helpful Those are that's essentially my comments I'm feeling a little frustrated in the sense that I can't Do what I would like to do because I don't have the information to be able to comment on things I can't see so that's where I am Thank you John. Appreciate you anything anything else Now that covers it Cool, I appreciate you. Um, so my comments here so I'm having a really hard time With the layout of the units on the ground floor on the south side like they feel Really awkward In terms of the fact that they're the skinniest units Right in terms of width because on the second floor you actually, you know You enlarge the the floor plate because you you don't have to contend with parking anymore. And so the second four units feel um More like apartment units whereas these Ones on the ground floor just feel very they feel super tight to me and narrow and I wonder if this is a you know, it's only three units So i'm wondering if it's a location to introduce additional amenities for The the residents of the complex. I'm wondering if it's a Place to actually maybe subdivide these units and actually just say look we're going to provide Micro studios and they're going to be 300 square feet. They're going to be small and that's the way it's going to be and Hopefully we rent them out, right? I mean, you know, that's certainly a way that different applicants have approached kind of um unit uh unit differences in terms of uh, you know, providing a wide range of unit type technologies But i'm having a real hard time with those units because they are they're very tight. I mean at the smallest they're Maybe 12 12-ish feet Which is pretty tight In terms of so i mean it's a bedroom, but they just they feel a little Awkward to me given the way the rest of the units are actually So thoughtfully laid out. I guess that's how I would say that Um, I do appreciate kind of the center loaded corridor, right? And how you have your circulation interiorly located as opposed to doing, you know, kind of A motel special if you will and having the exterior circle, you know the circulation on the exterior and making it feel like a Motel or something like that. So I do appreciate the double loaded corridor Uh from a design aspect in terms of allowing the building massing to kind of do the work Um, so that's I think it's really nice and I love the the push and pull all the way down And I think it does make it more interesting As you move down the facade, um You know, I think like john i'm i'm struggling a little just because of the color palette But at the same time I would argue that, you know, there's some really beautiful Fingular color palleted buildings in the state of california. Um, a lot of beautiful white stucco, you know, Santa Barbara a lot of beautiful Kind of stuff like that in other locations. It's either siding or or uh, you know cladding or whatever But I don't think it uh, I I don't think the singular color makes sense in roseland um in this area of san rosa and To say that I don't think the sarah clad In the board form concrete finish makes sense here and the reason I say that is the surrounding buildings There's nothing around here that has anything kind of like that texturally Um, and I would say if you're going to go with board form concrete do board form concrete don't Make board form concrete with a cladding system um You know and and there there obviously is an expense associated with real board form concrete And I don't know if you need to do it for fire rating for your staircases or what have you um, probably do but I would just say Pick a different material that makes sense contextually with the area. I mean, there's a Uh, the the houses across the street are all a little bit older and they have uh, wood siding And those types of things the exchange bank building. I think that's just to the north next to the library um as It's brick actually Which is uh incredibly rare in santa rosa. It's just kind of cool Uh, and that's in its own right and then um, obviously then you get out to basketball road. You have some more commercial stuff and um, then the the apartment building to the south I believe is Yeah, it looks like it's t111 So anything could improve upon t111, right? t111 is just a vertical kind of plywood. I guess it's the best way to describe that to everybody So I like the seraclad. I like the idea of doing it in multiple colors. I like the idea of doing a mosaic a fabric Doing individual blocks of color as the bump outs. I think those are really interesting kind of design concepts Um, but I think like john, I would have actually like to see them today as opposed to just the white Um, so we could comment on it Um, I like the idea of a mural. I mean, uh, Obviously we would have to check with you'd have to check with seraclad and see if they allow painting of their product And it doesn't void a warranty or maybe you just do stucco on one side and let the neighborhood go wild um I think a little bit of variation in material is probably not a bad thing. Um, so using stucco And and a rain screen system Uh, it's probably okay using You know some type of stone cladding if you want to go that route. I know costs are an issue But I'm not adverse to different materials And it doesn't all have to be a rain screen system or it could be a rain screen system that varies in style or it could be you know, uh Different types of stucco in terms of uh, you know the troweling and the finish, right? So you could One could be sand one could be hard trowel one could be a much larger kind of more textual stucco Um, you know, if that's something that you guys are interested in doing and then pop in some color into all of those I think that could be really interesting and unique um And then I agree with adam on the orchard parking and kind of the I really feel like The site is under planted right now And I'd much prefer it to be over planted I guess Um, and I completely agree with adam on that west side. It needs to There needs to be a buffer both I think visually and also acoustically to the neighborhood to the west as it is a fundamentally different, um Space right to the north you've got a bank building and a library It's south you've got more apartments, but to the west you have single-family homes And so I think you need to respect that a little bit whether it's fences or a different fence Planting, you know something to separate that up. I really do like the tot lot in the back I think that's a nice amenity um And that is a heck of a lot of asphalt and I'm curious if uh You've got enough bioswale to the south And or pervious paving potentially in that area. I mean, that's a lot out of all Um compared to the site, right? I mean, there's that's over 50 paving on this property, right? Um I'm a little worried about that But I'm sure there's an engineered solution Um, and I guess the last thing that had me scratch in my head Was there's a it looks like there's a ramp maybe a handicap ramp adjacent to the trash enclosure But it's in the trash access aisle. So I'm wondering if that Just needs to go into the median Um, but the little finger the planting finger there just to make it easy for the trash truck to get in there Um, you know depending on what they're going to do for their trash service It just seems a little tight with all that going on I would say yeah, I'd say that's it I mean, like I said, I like the massing. I like the roof. So I like the solar ready. I like Everything kind of tucked away I appreciate the there's an entry canopy. I'm not every saw that On it looks like it's an entry canopy on the south side There in the middle, which I think is a really nice touch and it and it's kind of Not visible unless you go to that 3d view And then I really think the Kind of the third floor deck is really nice in the multi-use rooms Um, so the neighbors are the the folks that live here are going to really appreciate that So that's it for my comments. Did that spur anybody else? Are we good? Looks like we're good. All right Susie, uh, did you get everything do you need me to summarize anything? Well, it's funny you asked that I actually I heard a whole lot about the colors And I'm wondering if the board can just kind of give a little bit more. I'm hearing colorful I'm hearing a mural and consistent throughout but I heard a lot of different materials Um, it sounds to me like the goal is just get some more color in there. And so it's not a big blend muted tone building Yeah, um, let me see. Let me let me take a stab at this and see if uh, see what the board thinks um, I think both john myself and adam and maybe mark all in I think it's hard for us to make a real determination on the color Or any sort of comment really Because you know for me, I'm throwing out a lot of different ideas, right? I'm like, hey, you could do this Hey, you could do this. Hey, you could do this But in absence of the applicant providing the idea that they'd like to go with I think we it's hard to make commentary on that um, I think I think their massing is good. It's just they need to Take it to the next level and I'm I don't know if If we need to continue the concept um in that regard or Or Defer to staff in terms of what you guys think in terms of them talk potentially coming back Uh, given that I think there's a couple of pieces missing Um, but I also don't want to be a roadblock to the applicants. I mean, I think most of the pieces are there, right? um in terms of of you know, kind of The thoughtful layout of the parcel um, you know Adding amenities things like that. I think that's where I'm a little stuck Because I think in the past when we've had a project that You know was deficient across multiple parts in multiple parts and pieces We're like, hey, look, we're going to defer this and we're going to reschedule you guys to come back for concept but I think This project is I would say it's 95 percent there and really the only missing piece is probably this color component Color and material component uh on the outside. I don't know. What do you guys think straw poll? Or comments raise your hand. I I agree anybody. I I I you know, I agree with you Drew, I you know, it's hard to know what to What to suggest because we don't have much to to work with and so But I'm willing to allow the Uh, the staff or the zoning administrator to to take a look at that if there's something that that they can't deal with that they can always I mean can they send it back to us? Can we do it that way? I don't know I'm going to step in And I just want to throw out a suggestion I if if if the if the only remaining issue really is is the building color We could I mean the applicant can submit their formal plans and we can do a concurrent review I can bring it back to the board To look at the color and the exterior materials that they've selected And you guys can weigh in and I think our zoning administrator would probably appreciate That feedback very much. So it wouldn't slow the applicant down at all It adds another, you know, it it adds another memo from me, but I can whip those out pretty quick. So If if if the board like that we can arrange that Yeah, and so let's turn this back over to the applicant and see what their appetite might be for that As well Because I think all four of us are wanting We want the project to go forward. We don't want to hold it up But at the same time, this is I think a critical missing piece for us in terms of Materiality and color of the exterior facade. I would incorporate both of those on the comment materiality and color of the exterior facade So, uh, we'll see what the applicant thinks. Um, Cameron or Ingrid what they think in terms of kind of doing a concurrent like you suggested uh busy And you've got makes absolute sense Um, this is Cameron, um, I think, uh If it if it's like a concurrent process and we submit our formal package and we're a formal project at that point And we can get some additional feedback Um, and it doesn't slow the rest of the process. That's that's not bad I think what we're afraid of is, you know, we kind of we we pick some siding materials. We put a color on there. I think I think we were thinking there should be maybe one additional in there and the relief I love the idea of all of your feedback Of saying let's think more about You know roseland and some of the more vibrant colors that we see such as the food park and trying to incorporate that and I love I personally Love vibrant colors and we love to do something a little bit more exciting and maybe have more in there I love the idea instead of maybe having a big gray column of the faux um wood form Concrete If that was instead, you know, maybe stucco and then a mural on It especially on the front. I'm not so sure about the west especially and in some of the comments about the landscaping to the west You know what we're not seeing on here is the current vegetation from the homeowners behind and there is a lot and there are some really big trees and really You know, what would be nice is to add in our next package I think is some actual photos from avalan and then our building kind of superimposed So you could kind of see the height of the trees and how I think a lot of that visually is actually the way it is going to be hidden Um, and so a mural on that side may not get as much exposure coming down set to sabbatical But maybe it would we'd have to look at that Love all those ideas. I think what we were thinking was we could have came in with a bunch of vibrant colors And then not knowing what you guys are thinking get the feedback that we don't like vibrant colors It's too Crazy and it should be more muted because the neighbors don't like it. And so I think You know not knowing exactly What's expected We were like, let's put something on there that looks pretty nice And then let's take into account everybody's opinion on what they think the coloring and siding should be And then let's try our best to really nail it when We submit our package and I think that's the intent and we've got some really good feedback all four of you Um had a very similar opinion. And so I think that's the direction we could go Um, I think you're right about not seeing You know board form concrete in that neighborhood and there's some more and having some more variation in the material choices Um Again we come back with something and we could do all that and then it could be like well, it's too vibrant It's too bright or there's too many colors. So let's knock it back to three or four So I don't want to you know, I'm afraid of getting into some Round about where there's multiple Multiple meetings. So if Susan kind of explained to how us, you know, maybe offline how we can do I'm definitely open to that and in getting some feedback When we put something a little different together, but continuing to move forward so For sure. Yeah, I think um I mean, uh, you know, I've been on prp with adam for Four years now adam something like that and john's been on the board For I don't know a year and a half two years something like that. Um, and mark's I think almost that is year I think by and large the thing that this board Generally goes for is um, and because it's in the design guidelines is uh Is a reflection upon the surrounding parcels, right and so Because of the nature of where this project's located You know, I think potentially describes the limit in many ways And it's really up to you guys and and your design game to to figure out what what is the right balance You know and and very often I think I don't think we're going to completely Go go crazy if if there's a lot of color or if it's vibrant I don't think we're going to I mean, I could be wrong, but uh, I don't think we've done that in the past I mean, I think generally we we tend to react negatively when there is a lack of color or a lack of Transition to color or a thoughtfulness about why there's an absence of color if that makes sense um So for instance, there was a prop there's a project corner found grove and bicentennial Ish, I think it was supposed to be a Santa Barbara style Kind of apartment complex and very thoughtful tons of white stucco beautiful, you know, uh wooden beams and wood accents and things like that Absence of color right total complete absence of color beautiful project Um, and we we loved it as a board, you know, so I think really it's it's up to you and your design team like I said to To present something um and more often than not I think if if there's a logical design reason It sets in with the context of the neighborhood Um, and like you said your this idea of a mural at the front with staircase where it's easily visible. I mean, that's that's a Tell a story about that That I think that's an easy sell Just in my opinion. I don't know if everybody else agrees with that Does that help a little bit? Yes, absolutely Yeah Yeah, I would say just add I don't think there were the the kind of designer view board that wants to nitpick colors We are interested in hearing the design intent and um, you know, we're not trying to railroad anything We just we want things to be well thought. No, and I think the the feedback I think it's great and I think You know, if we if we think more about the neighborhood And the appropriate exterior design, I think we can improve a lot and You know, I I I think I understand what it should look like and I think we can we can Do much better on this second go around for sure Yeah, I will make the comment too that I mean ingrid 100 picked a great product. I mean saraclabs a durable kind of almost bulletproof product in many ways um, you know, a lot of these five percent products or they've got a lot of They've got a lot of miles in them in terms of durability and and long lastingness and so that's a She she sent you in the right direction. I think in terms of at least a first start and So, you know, I think that's the other thing that that we look for is products that that have some some Beef to stay in the test of time and there are there are a lot of products that do that and there are a lot of products that don't Um, so but she's definitely got you in the right direction and I'm confident that uh, if we do a concurrent review I think we can provide some comment on whatever you guys come up with Um And then I think we'll be more comfortable to to get everything off to the zoning minister Is that sounding good to everybody? Give me a thumbs up if that sounds good To board board members. Okay. Cool. So Susie you good on that one on how we coordinate that all good I I know exactly how I'll coordinate it And I'll work with the application team All right, and then do I need to reread anything in terms of notes? Do you have good notes? Do you want want to hear anything else? I can summarize a couple of the things just to make sure I I took actually I actually took pretty good notes But if you want to summarize We will ask the the applicant to also summarize and we can bring those back With the next review as well if you like Yeah, let me just do it real quick. Um, I think I pretty much said what Here we go with apologies. I have to hop off Oh, sure. Oh, well, then we need to be done. So let's be done. Oh, here's the core. My apologies folks. I Yeah, because we'll lose quorum. Yeah, but it's okay. We'll lose quorum. So, uh, I think we're good Susie and One suggestion would be that if you if you haven't typed out share we can um I I wrote him down. Okay Well, I mean a picture you can send that to me and and we can make sure that we have those for our records too Or we can um talk about it later if we want to transmit that to the applicant team and include it in the project Yeah Cool sounds good. All right. So with that, I think we'll move on Mark if you can stand for just one second. We'll finish up Um, so we're done with item 8.1 because uh, we're going to lose our quorum here So with that I move to item number nine, uh, german So it is now 625 and we are adjourned All right. Yes, everyone. Have a good one. Okay Thanks everyone. Good night. Good night