 Welcome back to Senate Education, Thursday, April 7th, 304. Hoping that we will finish this third chunk today so that we will be ready for our witnesses on this topic tomorrow. So, board yours. Thank you, Beth. Thanks, James, Office of Legislative Council. We are considering our walkthrough of chunk three of the 877 here on page five, line nine, section five. And this is, again, meant to address a withdrawal that is for withdrawal that is underway. So the first section we talked about section four today was for a withdrawal that had already happened under current law. Section five is for a withdrawal that is underway but has not been finally approved. So, again, this section is going to apply to any town, school district that fits these specific criteria. And those, we've moved on from that one. Those specific criteria are found starting online 13. So for the purposes of this section, this is important. So the provision of 16 VSA 724 that were in effect prior to the effective data section three of this act. So current withdrawal language are deemed to authorize withdrawal from a unified union school district created by the State Board of Education and its final report. So that means that current law, remember we talked about this a little bit yesterday that current law, current section 724 talks about withdrawing from a school district a voter created school district. So there's that open question of law on whether a town can withdraw from a state created merged district. So this subdivision one is saying the provisions of current law today are deemed to authorize that withdrawal for a state created merger. But that's just one condition of this section line. The rest of the conditions are the section shall apply solely to a withdrawal action initiated by a town within the union district pursuant to the former section 724 of current law as we sit here today of if each of the fine actions occurred prior to the effective date of Trump's one and two. So the state board created the union district in its order, the state board created districts. Prior to the issuance of the order, the districts that merged to form the union district submitted a proposal to the Secretary of Education and the state board setting forth the details of their self-evaluation and a proposal for an alternative governance structure pursuant to Act 46. The voters of the petitioning town approved a proposal to withdraw from the union district. So the petitioning town voted and said yes. The voters of each of the other towns within the union district voted and said yes. The state board of education has not approved or taken action to approve the withdrawal proposal or declare that a new district is reconstituted. So this section applies to a state-created merged district where the votes have happened and now the action is sitting with the state board. Around there, I'm not sure. So this is a little different. So it's a different situation than section five. There's a lot of the same concept but it's just a little bit of a different procedure. So in section, sorry, this is section five. So in section five, at any time, I'm on page six, line 16, at any time after the effective date of the section, but on or before the regular September 2022 state board meeting, the self-selected representatives of the petitioning town, remember, there's no new school district yet. They're still a part of the union district. So there's no governing body. So that's why that self-selected representatives term is used of the petitioning town and the board of the union district shall submit to the state board in writing. So this is similar to the status report that was required in section four, but this is a different posture. So the report are firing different. So I just wanna ask a question about E. So this allows for the withdrawal to go ahead regardless of whether the state board has approved it or not. What page are you on? I'm at page six, line 13, a biggie. So I'm trying to put this into context myself, so that would allow that withdrawal to happen regardless of the state board's action. So what E is a part of the criteria that the town has to fit in in order for the section to apply. So it's not actually telling anyone that they can't do anything yet. It's just saying you have to check this box. And the E box is that the state board of education has not approved or taken actions to approve the withdrawal proposal or to declare in the board of district. Does that make sense? Yep, okay, thank you. So we're on page seven. So the reporting requirement in section five is the petitioning town and the union district have to file a report explaining the ways in which the current plan of the petitioning town and the union district, which the current plan of the petitioning town and the union district for operation after withdrawal conforms to or differs from the section nine proposal. So remember, one of the boxes that has to be checked for this section to apply is that it's a state-created district and that before the state created it, it submitted an alternative governance structure plan and that for section nine proposal. So this requirement on like one through three is saying, you've already submitted what you think should have happened to the state board of education in your alternative governance structure plan. And we, the state board went with merging instead. So, and it's been several years. So update us on what you're now you wanna withdraw. Update us on what your withdrawal plan looks like and how it conforms to or differs from that original alternative governance report that was filed several years ago before you were actually in state-created district. Does that make sense? They also have to include a plan, including a timeline in defying the actions the petitioning town and the union district have taken and will take to transition to the proposed structure and basically to make sure that they are operational. So what's their plans become operational? And you'll see on lines 11 through 12 and a minimum the plan and timeline to include the actions identified in subsection B of this section, which follows. Subsection B, if you wanna just jump to it as a little preview, start on the bottom, nope. Starts on the top of nine, little B. So these are the, and we won't, I won't jump out of order too much, but just these are the subsection D or the actions that the schools, the new petitioning town needs to take in order to be possibly operational. So lines 11 through 12 on each seven is saying when we say you have to submit a plan and a minimum, you have to tell us what are the things contained in subsection B. So then subsection C on page seven, the state board is gonna review that plan on line 14. The state board shall consider the report and plan and shall provide the self-selected representatives of the petitioning town and the board of the union district an opportunity to be heard. And then the board may in its discretion take testimony from other individuals and entities. So are we gonna see a timeline associated with any of this? So they're like days or months within which decisions or things are submitted and feedback is given. Excellent point. This draft does not happen like that. Don't have anything about that? No. So it could go on or not. Just looking to see, I think there, I'll see. Well, so I will say that this section is set to repeal on July one, five, five, four. And there's an operational date that the new schools of petitioning town is gonna wanna propose and work towards. They're not just working towards, they have something and they have a date in mind that will come into play in the analysis here. And in order, you'll see the off ramp is here as well. So in order to take the off ramp, they have to do that by October one prior to their operational date. So there's, So it could be a year. Some timelines, but nothing as specific as within 30 days of receiving the report. Nothing like that. It would give you a couple of years to wrap it up. Before you say so. Yeah. 20 to 20 years. But at the same time, if I was a school wanting to do this, I'd wanna know, I'd wanna know when the public hearing was or when the testimony was being taken to the framework for how things were going to proceed within the two-year time period. Okay. It's a really good point. Yeah. Okay. So this maybe schools don't care about that. But this whole chunk is temporary. It's meant to address the specific that of circumstances within a certain set of time. But I think it's a great point. There's nothing in here that the state board has to act within a certain period of time. So that would be a policy decision for you all. Okay. So over page seven, line 18. So just like in section four, the state board is gonna look at that report and it's going to make a pyramid determination only in here. They're also going to vote to approve it. So the state board has to do two things here. It shall determine if it is likely or unlikely that the proposed new school districts on the proposed operational date will be prepared to assume full responsibility for the education of its resident students on page eight by the operational date. If the state board determines preparedness is unlikely, it shall issue a written advisory statement detailing the factors underlying its conclusion and the report shall be made public and posted on its website. After it makes the preparedness determination on line seven, page eight, regardless of whether it was a vote up or down preparedness, the state board shall vote to approve the withdrawal proposal. So there is no discretion here on whether or not the state board approves the withdrawal proposal. It has to do it. So that they're taking action to approve the withdrawal proposal? The vote can only be approved. Correct. Or the vote is on approval. They shall vote to approve. So what if the vote is zero to 12? I think that what is contemplated in this language is that the only option is voting to approve. They shall vote to approve. And you know. I can't just say you shall approve. This means we're to vote when there's really none of those? I mean, you can certainly, I think that this fits into everything else the board has to do. So the board has to vote on some other things. Like if there's a, I guess continuing on page eight, approve motions or anything else necessary to for the withdrawal process to continue to go. Set a schedule for supervisor eating and services, make any other findings or decorations. So the formal action on approving the withdrawal is included in that voting contemplation. But I threw you, I think you could change the language to say the state board shall approve the withdrawal process and then move the vote down to separate section and certainly do that. I also think it works this way. Sure. So much. So the looking at the readiness of the district to operate independently in the school. So is this with just ignoring per minute that they must approve it? Is this an iterative process? I mean, are they gonna go back and forth about, yeah, you're almost there, but you need to do this, that and the other thing. Is that going to happen or not? No, nothing there for that. Not as silent on whether or not there can be back and forth. So theoretically, a school could present information that demonstrates it can't stand alone and the board has to approve it. Correct. Okay. That's a little flag. Mm-hmm. Remember that? Yeah. What do they have to approve? They have to approve that they can't do it or they have to approve the withdrawal proposal. So they could put a proposal and it says, We can't do it. We're doing it, no, or we're doing it and we don't have a big plan. We have, right, we're just gonna do it. We've got whatever minimal amount of information. This is very strange. Yeah, yeah. The board would put the information out. Yeah. To the people of the town and then then the other option to get out of the withdrawal is for the town to make a very emotional decision. Yeah. Could be made. So I would just say this is meant to address a very specific set of facts. I think you will hear from witnesses. So I know just so we can be clear. Yeah. I just keep going. Well, when you follow it, it's a little more stuff. Supervising. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Towns end of the month. Senator Hooker. Nope. Okay. Thank you. But what are the consequences? So we'll hear from them. I wanna hear what they have to say, but what would be the consequences of having a withdrawal approved that was less than meeting any standards? Just forgetting for a minute that school over there. They're thinking of another school. That just, we wanna get out, you know? No one's gonna tell us what to do, right? So what are the consequences of that and then what role would the board of education ever play in bringing the new school district to standards? It just opens up a whole difficult place for it. I mean, the only maybe bit of resolution we have is that it disappears in two years. Dissection. Dissection. But yeah. The other things that, yeah. But it sets us up, it sets up a problem. The new section goes into all. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yes, we're gonna keep my pride there. No, please. But I don't want so, but I just don't know. I will say yesterday, we spent the majority of our time going through the withdrawal process that would apply to everyone. Okay. And that potentially could alleviate some of your concern. Okay. I don't know because we didn't talk about it together. But yes, there's, chunk two is the withdrawal process that contemplated to be in effect going forward for anyone who has not started the withdrawal process already. As much as we don't want to say this is for particular towns, it could apply to any town. And I mean, another way to do this with, which would help from what I understand is that the Board of Education hasn't acted on their request. And so we could simply put in a timeline during which they have to reply and some conditions for override. I don't think about that. I mean, that's, you'd have to have some standards in place so that when the district was approved for withdrawal that they meet those standards. That's all I'm thinking about. Yeah. And then I'm also thinking about what their relationship is for the board with the whole AOE and Board of Education. I won't put that bother me too much. And these are great questions for our friends tomorrow. Yeah. Just for our Senator Alliance benefit, I will remind everyone that what we talked about in chunk two yesterday. So current law, it's the voters and then it goes to State Board of Education to approve the withdrawal to essentially ratify the will of the voters. And current law says State Board does have the ability to say no, but only if they make a finding that the students are in the newly created school district would not be attending a school that meets educational quality standards. Chunk two, which is what we talked about yesterday in age 727 as passed out of house. There's a study committee that has to do a lot of work up front to get a plan together. And then that thing goes to the State Board of Education and the State Board of Education cannot say no. And then the State Board of Education gives a recommendation and then that recommendation goes to the voters on voting whether or not. You can always make motions to order the bill to lie, definitely. I'm gonna have to hear. So we are on page eight. So the State Board shall vote to approve the withdrawal proposal. It'll make any, it'll approve any motion necessary for the withdrawal process to proceed, including if there's a motion to create a new school district, to enable the election members of the Board of the new school district negotiation and voter approval or withdrawal agreement in preparation for responsibility of the application. It shall, the State Board shall determine or set a schedule for determining the manner in which supervisory union services will be provided. And it shall make any other findings or declarations and approve any other motions necessary or related to a withdrawal proposal. So we're on page nine. Actions necessary, so this is that little D we were talking about, subsection D. Actions necessary to be fully operational. After the State Board makes the determination and preparedness and approves the withdrawal process, then the new school district and the union district and if applicable, the supervisory union or unions shall take all actions necessary to be fully operational on operational date. And then at a minimum, this is what they have to do in order to be fully operational. And what they have to do to be fully operational needs to be contemplated and included in their report to the State Board of Education to begin with. So they have to elect board members. And then this provides for staggered terms for initial board members. And their sole responsibility and tell their operational to prepare for the, to assume source possibility for the education of residents. They shall negotiate so that new school district and the union district have to negotiate the proposed financial terms of withdrawal. The voters have to approve the negotiated financial terms and that is current law. So this is requiring them to stick with what they're on. Preparation of a proposed budget by the board of the new school district for the fiscal year beginning on the operational date together with presentation to an approval by the district voters prior to the operational date. They have to prepare for the provision of supervisory union services and then all other actions necessary, including on page nine, sorry, page 10, lines seven through nine, including all actions necessary to address the collectively bargained rights and employees of the current employing entity. So the State Board said, we're making a, we think that preparedness is deemed unlikely. Then it has to issue a written advisory statement detailing the factors of that conclusion and it has to submit that electronically to the board of the new school district upon its election and then the new school district has to post that on its website and schedule the content for public discussion. And then again, it's the same as what we talked about in the previous section. Prior to the operational date and after public discussion, they can go full scheme ahead towards the operational date or the school board can make a motion to warn a vote or the school board shall warn a vote if petition to do so by at least 5% of the voters. And the question is whether or not the school new school district should ask the State Board to reverse the declaration of approving what they're all. The school board can do that or a vote can do that. No, the vote, the vote has to happen. It's whether it's who triggers the warning for the vote. Oh, thank you. And then that same, the vote has to occur before the October one prior to the operational date. The question shall be decided by Australian ballot. There's the same sort of recording and certification requirements that used to be throughout on page 11 to analyze 10 through 17. And then if the new school district online 18, if the new school district requests the State Board to take action, then the State Board shall reverse and void earlier declarations approving withdrawal and reconstituting the new school district on page 12, line three. And the union school district shall continue to be solely responsible for the education of those students from the petitioning town. However, the new school district and its board can continue to exist for up to six months to wrap up any business that they need to. And then the State Board may make any other declarations necessary to make this happen. And then line, so I'm on page 12, line 13 through the end of page 12. And then one through nine on page 13 are just some different language for if this section were to apply to a union element for your union high school district. The concepts in the process is all the same. So I'm going to beat it dead for. So lack preparedness, I'm on page 10 through 11 so long. But if the board determines that they lack preparedness if they can still vote themselves or about 5% to become independent and be a school district and function. So the both already happened. This is to pull out of the withdrawal. This is the off-ramp option. Okay, okay, I feel better. Thank you. But during this time, if they decide to withdraw there's still that six month period. But in the meantime, all the educational stuff for the kids is happening under the previous district. Yes, it will, even if they don't take the off-ramp, the union school district will provide the education to students in the petitioning count until the operational need. Until the operational need, okay, thank you. And that section five. So section six is very similar to section five. Again, I'm on page 13. This is meant to address a very specific set of facts and circumstances. And this particular section applies solely to a withdrawal action initiated by a town within a union district under current law. And if each of the following actions occurred prior to that date. So section five was a state-created district. And section six is a voter-created district. So the union, so I'm on page 13, line 19. The union district was formed pursuant to chapter 11 that was in effect, prior to the effective data section three. So current laws, we sit here to that. That's a voter-created district. Page, copy page 14, line one. The voters of the petitioning town approved a proposal to withdraw from the union district. And the voters of the other towns have ratified the petitioning town's proposal that the state board has not taken any action. So it's almost the identical situation except it's voter-created board, voter-created district, excuse me. So page 14, line eight, that's section B. The petitioning town has to make a report to the state board. And the report shall describe the analysis that has been performed by the petitioning town to evaluate the likely strengths on line 13 and challenges for the proposed new school district and for the reconfigured union district if withdrawal is approved. And the ways in which withdrawal would enable both districts to provide for the education of their respective resident students in a manner that will meet educational quality standards. And then the report shall address. This is more specific upfront because in section five, you had a situation that was contemplated for the town that wanted to withdraw and had already done this analysis back before it had merged because it submitted that alternative governance structure recommendations to the state board. This is a voter-created district. So there was no analysis like that done and submitted to the state board before. So this is a little more prescribed but the process itself is the same. They have to make a report with all this information to the state board. So page 14, starting on line 19. This is very similar to what you saw in talk two as far as what used to be contemplated for the information going to the state board for a withdrawal of the study committee analyzed. So educational advantages and disadvantages, line, I'm sorry, page 15, line three, financial advantages and disadvantages, financial viability and sustainability other advantages and disadvantages including to the taxpayers and then the potential source of supervisory union services. So the report has to include an analysis of all of that. And then on page 15, line 18, subdivision two. The report has to not only include an analysis of all of those things but also what is their plan to become operational? So we've done all of this analysis and here's why we think withdrawal is a good idea but how are we actually gonna be self-sustaining here's our plan in order to assume slow responsibility for the education of its students. So on page 16, the state board is gonna review that plan. It's gonna give the town and the union district an opportunity to be heard. It's going to make a preparedness determination and if it's, they can either make a determination if likely or unlikely for the new school districts to be prepared by the operational date. And if it's unlikely, they have to issue a written statement but regardless of what their determination is, page 17, they have to vote to approve the withdrawal process. So from here on out, it's exactly the same as what we just talked about. The state board approves any motion necessary, determines the schedule for determining supervisory union services, makes any other findings necessary. And then page 17, line 15, out to the state board makes its determination. The new school district has to get up and running including election of an initial school board members, negotiation of the financial terms and then approval by the voters of that negotiated financial term package, preparation of a budget and preparation for the provision of supervisory union services from all the way at the bottom of page 18 on line 16 to 19. And then subdivision six, all other actions necessary to transition from one school district to two districts and it's applicable to transition from supervisory district to supervisory union structure. If page 19, line four, subdivision, I'm sorry, subsection E, preparedness being unlikely, this is the operant. So if the state board determines that it's unlikely that this new school district is gonna be up and running by its operational date, then the new school board, once it's formed, has to hold a meeting and post the state board's findings, allow discussion about that. And then at any time before October one of the operational date, they can either go full steam ahead or the board can vote to warn the voters of the new school district or the board can be compelled to do so by at least 5% of the voters and the vote is on whether or not to request the state board undoes the withdrawal action, reverses the withdrawal action. But there's no timeline for the term. Correct. And then if that vote is successful, then the state board reverses all its earlier declarations, the union district continues to be responsible for the education of the students in the new school district, new school district will stick around for six months to wrap up business. And then lines, see I'm on page 21, lines six through 19 and then on page 22 are again terms in order to make this at full section applicable also to a union element or area union high school district. They do go ahead and even though they found that their operation, they can't reach, there's what they have to do by their operational date, that just pushes their operational date further ahead. No, I mean, the operational date is the operational date. That's a good question. I actually don't know if they can, how easy it would be to change the operational date. I assume that was in their articles of agreement. So they said there could be a vote on changing that, but I'm just trying to think through all of the different things that they have to do. It's not an automatic that it would just get pushed out. I believe the operational date is in the articles of agreements. There was to be a vote to change it. That's interesting. I don't know. I'm sure Donna, we're just watching right now. But I can give that some more thought and then certainly Donna can weigh in on that. Great, we could bring it back to us tomorrow. And then again, this section is repealed on July 1, 2021. Bless you. Section seven is the last section in, second to last section. I'm going to make back the date of age 7.7 and that's very simple. Page 22, line seven, withdrawal proposal with no final radical completion vote. So what this is saying is if you haven't made it through, whether you're a unified union school district, which is a subsection A on line nine, or union elementary or union high school district on subsection B of line 19, saying if you haven't made it, so I'll just read it. If the town of the union sub union school district voted to withdraw from the union district under current law, as we see here today, and if the voters of the other towns in the union district have not voted whether to ratify the withdrawal proposal, then the whole thing shuts down once section three takes effect, which is chunks one and two, which is your new chapter 11. And they have to start all over again under current law, under your new current law. Does that make sense? So there must be a town where there's a father and a bigger. I think that's a great question for Donna. Yes, but I believe that this was meant to catch every possible withdrawal situation that could be happening now, that's kind of a limbo between new law and proposed, current law and proposed new law. But there's no time limit. Perfect. So basically nullified the process of this start. They took one vote at the first, at the petitioning town. The other town doesn't vote it yet, but they're saying too bad. Yeah. $200. We're not gonna have to go. Yeah, so it's specific. It says if the voters of each of the other towns have not voted or if they voted, but the votes are not final prior to the effective date of section three, which is counts one and two. The effective date is off package. But right, I believe right now it's July 22nd, which I would flag for your consideration on if this moves forward, whether that's appropriate. Would be nice to know that there were some date circles when all this stuff had to happen, so I don't know if anything else would be done. So we're gonna start tomorrow with Donna. And then we're going to move from Donna to the state board and then start to hear from those that are particularly interested in this last chunk of the bill. And hopefully that'll give us an opportunity to clarify questions in the language. I'm also receiving, as I don't know if other people are, people that are concerned that we're, there are issues of, I think it's Tim, lawyers, you know, thinking of used to be with Jeff Pierce, Tim. Now, I think it's loiter slash loiter slash something. Anyhow, there's some concerns that he's raising as an attorney around democratic processes that are, perhaps not being respected. So I'm in as well. I don't know. Yeah, do you know what's happened? This is, let's see, I don't, this is sick. And I missed, you know, I misrepresenting him. I mean, really just some concerns around, you know, whether or not we're making a democratic process more complicated. Tim, waiters to be heard. Do you think you've heard of counsel? No, he's, I don't know who he's with now. You'll all recognize him, right? Yeah. Because he was with Jeff Pierce for years. Just to be safe, can we go through it again? Absolutely. That was, that was a 10,000 foot level, now you need to do the deep dive. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot here. And some of this will be determined how much we get done to be perfectly honest when our adjournment date is and what we can get done. So you might find us trying to find ways to get parts done if we can't get it all done and depending on what our time frame sounds like. I just, you know, logically. Do you want me in the room, Sarah, or? I would welcome that. You might ask me, why are you here? Why are you here? I would be thrilled that you would be in the room tomorrow and that would be really helpful to all of us. Okay, any other direction on this? No, are you able to stick around now as well? By S104, I think that might be Mr. Jim. Okay. I think I'm going to go take a break, but it's not really great. Don't worry, I'm still working hard. There's a lot, you know, there's a lot, you know, the reality is when you're taking in all of this, we are, it's going to take us a little while. There's a lot here and I need to talk to the corner office also just about what the reality is and where are some of the priorities as it relates to this. And I'll talk to the house chair as well. Checking out how she's doing in our work. And then. Using the man on me at the camera so I can send a message. And then did you want me back? Today? I don't think so. No. Okay, great. Yeah. I'll see you tomorrow. Thank you so much. Yeah. You did not draft SQ48, correct? Yes, is that the governance? Yeah, is that on today? Well, we're just having a conversation. You can always, you can always catch it on YouTube. Yeah, I'm happy to do that, but if you need me in the room. Okay, great. Thank you. Could you pass it over to Ms. Connick? I sent that to Dr. Rump, but if you want to grab it. Yeah, let's grab it. And then we'll bring her in after we grab it. No, that's it. She has a different one. Yeah, let's take, we'll just take a couple of minutes.