 Welcome back, it's time for our very first hot topic and it has to do with the money that has been budgeted for Tinuba and Shetima to eat and travel abroad. Well it's a recurring decimal that while the political class in Nigeria feed fat and are totally insulated against the suffering their policies meet out to citizens, the same citizens are constantly called upon to make sacrifices for the nation. As President Bola Tinuba inherits 11.92 billion narrow feeding and foreign troops budget for him and his vice, Nigerians believe it is immoral and a lack of empathy for this government to rob opulence in the face of sufferings of the citizens while maintaining a willy and overblotted government, a plethora of aides and various tiers of government. This is our first hot topic and we have been joined by Dr. Frank Tehr Abagan, senior lecturer and specialist in international economic relations, strategic studies and policy, public policy at the Department of Political Science, Bernard State University, Mark Rudi. Good morning to you sir, it's good to have you join us to discuss this especially since you're joining us from Bernard State, the food basket of the nation as we discuss this huge amount that has been budgeted for feeding. All right so let's break it down first. The breakdown shows that 331.79 million narrow will be spent on the President's feeding while that of his deputy is 176.92 million narrow. How practicable is this? Well thank you very much for this question. I'm rather surprised that Nigerians are reacting now. If you just like you rightly said, this provision in the budget was already appropriated and signed into law by the previous government. So I wonder why the civil society groups and Nigerians didn't react at that time? They did. Hold on to why they're reacting now. No Dr, they did. Nigerians did react back then. Nigerians did react back then but it meant nothing to the people in authority. The intensity of the reaction and because I monitored it at that time, the intensity of the reaction was not as it is now, you know, because maybe because of some of the policies of the tunable government has taken so too far and people are more sensitive about these things now. The expectation is that tunable has told Nigerians to endure because of some of the harsh economic policies that he has put in place. The removal of the subsidy and the floating of the Naira exchange rate, Naira dollar exchange rate. So the situation is that we should, you know, endure. So it is expected that government also reduces its overhead costs. It's spending. But we have not seen that kind of sign. As a matter of fact, there was a there was a move to even increase the emoluments of public office holders. So this particular kind of thinking is what is making Nigerians feel very bad. Okay, if you are trying to enjoy your suffering, for whose benefit, we have to see a government that is trying to reduce costs. Okay, it was observed that the president had a convoy of more than 200 vehicles. You and I know that PMS is very expensive. The speaker of the House of Representatives, Rajidian Abbas, recently approved the appointments of three persons and added two that's making it 35. And this is entrenched in the laws. So the cost of governance is simply too high. If you are telling Nigerians to endure, and you are not also taking steps, but your very government is, because government is expensive to run, you have to reduce personnel, you have to reduce logistics and overhead. Because if you think that it's only you that has issues and the Nigerian public doesn't have, you're going to create a lot of disaffection and bad feeling. What I'm trying to say in that sense is that there was a budget and Nigerians would have, despite all that, they would have reacted. Also, if it holds on the national assembly to weigh into this matter, you understand, we make new budget estimates to reflect the current economic times, because the value of the Naira has gone down. Any kind of deficit spending by government will only increase inflation in the long run. And who pays the price for this? The ordinary Nigerians, so this is the whole scenario. And this is what is creating the disaffection. If the president has given us these two beta pills to swallow, on his own parts too, he should be taking steps to reduce the cost of governance, reduce the number of appointees in government, and reduce the logistics, the number of cars in the fleet. The presidential fleet has 10 aircraft. We don't need that. Advanced countries don't have that kind of number. Exactly. If you're told, yes, if you're told you're going to use a presidential fleet for private reasons, you pay from your own pocket. That is what is done in other clients. And in advanced countries, in developed countries, because we are developing, in developed countries, the presidents do not get fed on taxpayers' money. The U.S. specifically, I know that. You feed yourself. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So in the current instability and high inflation, the budget is quite unrealistic. So President Nubu inherited this. Can he not change it? Because I know that supplementary budgets, there is such a thing as supplementary budget. Can he change it? Yes, I am. Can he change it? And do you see him as having the political will to change it? I am hoping he doesn't put in for a supplementary budget because it will only be funded by debt financing. The Nigerians are asking political questions now. We have had a month of no subsidy payments. So the question now is, where is the money? How are you going to spend it? If you want to lead people, you have to show people that you're also concerned about their welfare. You're also concerned about issues that affect them. Too many times we had a situation where the government will reform with promises to take care of the people. And what happens is that when they enter office, they now start carrying out policies that impact me. So this is the situation. I don't think Nigerians, what I'm presently seeing, will tolerate this situation whereby they are suffering. Nobody is unaware of the very harsh impact of just the rise in PMS because we are not a developed economy. And energy, which we derive from PMS, is used to create electricity using generating cells for some people in the manufacturing sector or even in services. So you have taken that particular resource and you maybe tripled its price costs. So Nigerians are feeling that impact. So many businesses have been impacted negatively and are shutting down. So we need to do something about alternatives. You cannot have an economy where you don't subsidize energy. Even in the developed parts of the world, energy is subsidized. But whoever accepted that, okay, you said you needed money because it was a waste. So Nigerians are expecting to see the returns on this particular policy you have enacted. And also you floated the denier now. It's almost the same thing. There's no special preference. Anybody can go and get denier from any of the banks at the risk due to the effective demand and supply functions. So what is going to happen now is the government has to show Nigerians that it is sincere. The president has to do a lot to show Nigerians that he has their interest in that by implementing policies that will alleviate their suffering. Even Nigerians perceive that they are going through suffering and the government is busy spending taxpayers' money that are levanting from one foreign capital to another. You have to deal with a lot of public anger. And this is one of the unfortunate situations we are praying we don't see. What need termed fiscal scenarios should we expect to play out? Should this government decide to do something critical about this? The government can wire money, right? Move money from one aspect of government to a more important and more dire aspect of government. Yes, they can do that. One, I mentioned the policy. You know, we were not just existing in the world alone. We're amongst other countries that have passed through this kind of scenario. What is going to happen is we need a situation whereby the suffering of the people, the suffering of the people has to be ameliorated. The Americans have the social security. Any time there's inflation, the quantum of inflation is computed and its monetary value added to what you take as your salary, as your basic salary. So it's a fluid thing. If there is an increase in the cost of living, it is calibrated and put in your enumeration. Only our political leaders do this in Nigeria. And it's not good enough. It's not fair on the sincere terms. In terms of revenue, I just hope the government does not take loans. If they take loans, I'm telling you we'll head it for a lot of trouble. The 77 trillion debt is over our heads. Do I just read, I just yesterday, that the president has been given opportunity to take a facility from the world bank, about $500 million. All of this comes at the price because we have to go into debt servicing now. If we take money, the thing is if we're taking money, if we're going to invest with this money, it is not a bad thing. But the behavior of Nigerian governments over time has shown that we don't do this. Instead, a lot of corruption takes place and money gets into the wrong places, increasing the suffering of Nigerians. So one, government has to reduce personnel and logistics costs. That is one. Government also has to tackle corruption. No matter how beautiful your policies are, if you are not stemming the tide of corruption, you're going to have a lot of challenges and this will not overwork for you. So these are the some of the steps the government has to take. There shouldn't be any borrowing. We cannot, the economy cannot simply afford borrowing. We're already doing deficit financing, that's it. And then you have to show Nigerians that you understand their suffering, you understand their life. How are you going to do this? Implement, start implementing the palliative. Nigerians need this. You need to do things that will re-jig the economy. And this is very important. If you implement those things, I think the welfare of Nigerians will improve. Yes, indeed the government has called on Nigerians to make more sacrifices and be patient with this government. But as you have alluded, we are yet to get some sort of bold statement from President Tanubu and some commitment to show that they are indeed interested in curbing corruption, big government structures and huge government spending. And until Nigerians begin to see a huge commitment or both statements from President Tanubu, they call for sacrifice. They call for sacrifice from Nigerians. How easy do you see him getting that support from Nigerians or trust from Nigerians? Because without corruption being dealt with, Nigerians do not see how this country can move forward in any way, shape or form. Well, the government has already received the support. Of course, there's a case in 42 contenders to the people who contested the presidency with him high in court. But what the verdict now shows is that he won't. There's no other way to show proof that Nigerians supported you if you didn't win elections. He won. So that's number one. You won elections as it is. You won elections, you're already in office, you're sworn in. There's no other way but I just support you. You are to return the favor Nigerians gave you by do carrying out policies that will reduce this. One, we want a situation whereby we will have clear statistics. How much have you earned from the non-destoppage of oil subsidies? That is one. Two, to what particular palliatives are you quickly implemented? They have been meeting but will not come out. There's been no definite clear policy of alleviating the hardship. There's two particular policies. I'm talking about the oil subsidy removal and the floating of the Nairi has caused so far. Of course, they are mentioning, I had mentioned of the former head of service given our own size panel report which is talking about streamlining in government agencies. Some of them look as if they're doing kind of the same function because I think it behooves on government to realize that some agencies are only dualizing the particular rules other agencies do. I've always said in the past that I don't see the reason why if you have an ICPC and an EFCC, it should be one organization that's in charge of economic and financial crimes. There's no need for two. So these are some of those hard choices that government must take. It must start with government. They are the biggest spender and the biggest vector. So they should reduce the cost of governance. If that is done and Nigerians see that sincerity, you will see support more for government. This is the way to go. They have to reduce the cost of government. It is simply too high. Well, thank you Dr Abhagan for your time and insight on this very crucial topic because Nigerians are talking about it everywhere you go. Nigerians are having these discussions and it is something that the government would and should pay attention to because Nigeria belongs to everyone and indeed we want to see Nigeria move forward. That is a prayer of every single Nigerian. Nigerians are in trauma right now. You're coming to work. You're going to the market. You're going nowhere you go. Nigerians are groaning. Nigerians are in serious pains and so whatever this government can do to urgently fix things and reduce the pain and the sufferings of Nigerians, they should please do so. All right. Thank you so much. Dr Fran Ter Abhagan is a senior lecturer and specialist in international economic relations, strategic studies, and public policy at the Department of Political Science, Benua State University. We'll be back with our second hot topic in the moment. Do stay with us.