 Okay. Welcome everybody. Next we have women in WordPress panel and I will allow the moderator and speakers to introduce themselves. Hi everybody. Thank you very much for coming. My name is Miriam. I'm going to be moderating the panel. Just a little bit of background about myself. I'm coming to you from Ottawa, Canada. So it's very nice to be here in the warmth and the sunshine. And a little bit of background. I'm lead developer for Pawnstone Digital Marketing. We're a digital marketing agency up in Ottawa. And I've been a developer for about 13 years now. So themes, plugins, all that kind of good stuff. I also co-organize work camp Ottawa. So if you're ever interesting coming to Ottawa, come talk to me afterwards. We're looking at the summer where there's no snow. And outside of my tech life, I'm a third degree black belt in karate. So I teach kids a lot. And I'm also a competitive Latin ballroom dancer. So now I'm going to get my panelists to introduce themselves. Good afternoon. My name is Nikisha Charles. I'm a writer. I write my own website called SeeNikisha.com. Outside of writing, I've always published with WordPress since I started in 2009. Outside of writing, I am an English teacher, two speakers of other languages. And I love to cook and sing and dance and go to the beach and all that kind of great stuff. Hi. My name is Tessa Creasel. I'm a developer advocate at Pantheon. I have been a developer for over 10 years, started in Joomla, done some Drupal, moved into WordPress, kind of trickled between all of those in the meantime. I would say things I enjoy are like, according to my speaker card, I put in love with all the dogs, which is so true. And also like, enjoy shooting archery and being outdoors. I'm Natalia Real. I've been coding on WordPress since 2012. I'm at website dash superhero.com. I was a web developer and I've been pivoting into more marketing and SEO through that business. And then I also do marketing, SEO and web development for a local skincare company. And I love dogs. And I meditate, kind of weird kind of geek spiritual combination going on. Hi. My name is Birgit Polly-Hunk and I have a small web developer, web consulting agency. Started working with the web in 1996, building my first web pages with Notepad and then migrated to dynamic server pages. And then WordPress, I started in 2010. Before that, I built my own CMSs, my learning management systems, membership sites. But then we migrated everything into WordPress since then. We are a remote company. We have six people working on it. And in my free time, I do, I'm part of the deputy global community team. I run the local meetup with my co-organizers. And I also run a nonprofit technology meetup with co-organizers every month. And if I'm not sitting in front of a computer, I play tennis. And I run every morning. And I love to travel. And I do some photography so you can see some of my photos on Instagram. Okay, great. So let's get started. So my first question for the panel is, what advice do you wish somebody had given you when you first started working with WordPress or getting involved with the WordPress community? I would say that I've been working with WordPress since 2007 or 2008. It's been a long time. But not until I started at Pantheon did I actually join the community. And so what I mean by joining the community is I started going to meetups. I started going, I mean, I did some meetups before them, but not much. I started going to WordCamps, like more conferences, got involved, like got to meet other developers. And that's something that I wish I would have done like when I was first starting out. I think when I first began, if I had known, to expect things to, don't expect things to move at the speed of light. That you're going to have to have some patience, that these things are developing over time. And that there's a whole community of people who are trying to make things better on a regular basis. So the things that you are frustrated with, or you see maybe a loophole in, somebody's working to fix that. So if I hadn't known that in the beginning, maybe I would have saved myself some frustration over the years. Because now that some time has passed, and I can see the developments that have occurred, I know that. And it's very comforting. So there's a lot less frustration. There are two things for me. One, I also wish I had been aware of the community and how wonderful and rich it is here and all over. I started, I taught myself, and so I started meeting a lot of awesome developers all over the world, but no one here. And it took me about four years to discover WordCamp. And I came and I was like, holy crap, this is amazing. Like, there are all these great courses and all these people and they're right here. And then I started going to meetups and things like that. So now on the dashboard when you log in, WordPress tells you, hey, there's a WordCamp coming up near you, right? But that wasn't around before. So that's been really big to help me be more creative, feel more inspired, meet people to work with, of course. And then the second thing is that I wish I had known that Googling all the time is normal because I used to think that if you're Googling, you're an amateur. I was like, if my clients find out, they're all going to fire me, right? But no, like you're supposed to. I actually met, I befriended a developer here at my first WordCamp and then he was very helpful. He allowed me to ask him questions. He would answer me right away all the time. And he'd been doing it for a decade at that time. And he told me, even I Google things all the time now to this day. And I was like, oh, okay, this is normal. It's all good. I'm not a fraud, right? Imposter syndrome is so prevalent in tech. So those are the two things for me. Yeah. What I learned when I was got involved in the WordPress community was actually how community building works. And it's kind of the, if you ever going to see some of the stronger community members talk at a WordCamp, the difference between making software in a cathedral method or in a bazaar, that's kind of cathedral versus the bazaar, is that there's a lot of voices that get into building software at WordPress. And I have curated news about Gutenberg since June, since it was introduced. And there's a lot of voices, some of our louder and some of our more elaborate and more deeper. But it's, and all of them are community and they're all bringing something to the table. It's not just the people that are in agreement with you. It's also the ones that disagree with you. And it all comes together as a better software, a better community. And we all have voices. And I really like that in WordPress. Great. So next, I want to know, how do you think that as women, we can help women who be heard and be supportive in group settings? Because that's not always the case. So how can we as women or anybody in general help other women be heard in those situations and be supported? There's one thing that sticks out to me in this, and that is if you are in a group setting and there are women and there are men and you guys are maybe having a meeting or you're having a discussion about projects and a woman speaks up and she's trying to explain something. And maybe somebody cuts her off and tries to say something else. So it might be a man, it might be a woman, it could be anyone. Be the person that says, hold on, like let this person finish, let her like say what she wanted to say so that she can continue. Because a lot of times, I know that this is a frustration that women feel, that they're cut off, they're not taken seriously. So be that ally that allows that person to be able to express what they're trying to say. I agree. No, really. And I think what you're saying, it stems from giving credit where credit is due. And so if someone is speaking and they have someone, something to share, that you support them on it and you give them their kudos for what they're giving to you. How we can help each other as women? I think we can encourage each other to be more confident and to stand firm in who we are all the time. And even if we disagree, say who you are, be who you are, be confident about where you stand. There's times when you know what you know and someone still is in conflict with you just because of who they think you may be, because of your skin color, your gender, or whatever it is. You know what you know, you stand behind that. Be confident in what you know. And don't let people push you around or make you feel like because you stand up for yourself that makes you bad or mean or any of those things, what it makes you is confident and strong. So keep encouraging other women to do that. Rock on. Yeah. I agree with all of that. And yeah, especially the interruptions thing, whether it is a woman interrupting or a man interrupting, what I do sometimes if the person who's interrupting is kind of too strong and hold on, doesn't work. It's just going back to that original person. Hey, what were you saying? Would you like to finish what you were saying? Did you have something to add? Making sure that everyone in the room, regardless of gender, gets to voice their opinions and their thoughts is super important. And to do that every time, not just once and then not again. Especially people who are younger, I think maybe they may feel like their ideas are not as valuable as those of people who've been in whatever industry or at that job for a longer time span. And they may actually be bringing a fresh perspective, right? And also just because everyone deserves to be heard and to feel supported. And I also like to give positive reinforcement. I am at my job. I'm in a managerial position. So I like to say, you know, somebody had an excellent idea. That's an excellent idea. Thank you for sharing that, you know. And if it's not an excellent idea, it's not really an excellent idea. Here's why. Constructive criticism. So either way, engaging people in conversation, especially women, helps them feel supported and heard like their contribution is being valued. And so they will want to contribute again. So I sit in meetings and I'm, yeah, in meetings, mixed gender. And I get there are some ideas raised by women. And then two hours go by in the same meeting. And then all of a sudden, another coworker man says, has the same idea. And all of a sudden, everybody jumps on it. The idea of the woman had first, pretty much kind of. And I had always a hard time with that. And that was my idea. But I know that that's not, that's very rude in America. In Germany, it's not. I said this before. But it's, so the cabinet around President Obama, there were quite a few women in there, but they had the same problem. And what they they banded up against that and said, okay, if one of us has an idea in there, please, the other person reinforces it before it gets occupied by or hijacked by somebody else, that it's actually attributed to the woman they had at first. I think that's a very important thing to say, because we, I find myself sometimes that I'm overlooking it. And it needs all of us. Even if you are a manager, kind of listen to where the ideas come from and give credit. When I was on an apprentice, no, not an apprentice, my first, my previous life I was an accountant or controller, more controller for a restaurant chain. And in my first year, I found a discrepancy. And that's when you travel cultures, you know, measurements, and you convert measurements. And so there's a difference between a German pound and an American pound. And the difference is 24 grams, which doesn't sound much. But if you do tons of it, and you pay, I don't know, $80 for $4,000, it added up to about $90,000 a year discrepancy that the vendor has overbuilt the company. And I found that I was pretty proud of myself. My boss was pretty proud that he had actually found something or that something came out of it that paid my whole year's salary, or for two years, actually. And he went to his boss and kind of said that. And the only thing that that boss said to him was, Well, why didn't you find it? Yeah. And the boss never said anything to me. And it was kind of, yeah, I saved a lot of money. Yeah, by finding it. I said it's something that, yeah, kind of give credit with credits to you. Great. It's so good to hear everybody's different perspective on this. So I wanted to leave time for questions from the audience here. So if you have any questions, can you just put up your hand and just give me a moment so I can repeat it so that they can hear it on the live stream. So does anybody have any questions? Yeah, in the front. Yeah. So just before the panel starts, the question was, how do men and fathers help support and promote women who want to get involved in the tech community, and WordPress in general whether blogger, designer, developer, you name it? Eliminate the like a girl thing. Oh, you do this like a girl or you do that like a girl. Girls do some awesome things. Eliminate that. Get rid of it. Get rid of that whole mentality. Boys, it's like a boy like a girl, stop that with your children. And that will help tremendously. Anybody else want to? Yeah. I actually when I started in 2012, I didn't know any women who coded. It was actually my partner at the time. He was a software engineer. And he was like, hey, why don't you learn how to code to become more marketable as a writer, which is what I was doing back then. And he got me into that. And then my mentor was this other guy I had gone to college with. So it ties into what Nikisha was saying. It's you know, gender shouldn't it's technology. Gender has it's unrelated. So just being supportive with what you know, being like, hey, can I help you learn this? Or do you have questions about this or mentoring is so important at the beginning. So being a mentor, it was priceless for me to have both of those men help me. So doing that can feel a woman feel not just supported, but also like she can do it because now we have more female developers. But still mostly are that you see men, right. And when you don't see yourself represented, sometimes you don't feel like you can end up doing whatever that thing is. Right. Like, when I was growing up, my best friend was in a band, he played bass and I was 13. And we listened to the same music and I was totally into it. But I never thought of learning an instrument myself until I went to a punk show at like 16 and saw this girl up there and I was like, Oh my God, right. Like, that could be me. Like, awesome. And then I took up guitar. So when there's that lack of representation, it's extra important for men and other people who don't identify as women to be allies. So thank you for asking that. Any bells? Nope. All right, question over there. So the question was, what is the best way to create teams? And I guess just in the worker environment in general? In WordPress. So creating teams in WordPress, like people to work with? To outsource things to themes, sorry, themes, sorry. That's awesome. I think the best way is to go to the weapons.org site and look at the theme repository there. And they have the there's a configuration how to do themes read through the technical part of it. And there is a starter theme that automatic or the the workers team put together. It's called underscore. The underscore in front of it. Yeah, read that. I don't know how good are you in PHP? Yeah, I think looking at other people's code that they put out for. And that's actually the good about open source, you can look at other people's code that you admire. And then lean it from there. But I would start at WordPress.org where it says, how do I do a theme? How do program a theme? And then every word or every concept technology concept that you don't know. Google it. Another great resource is have you heard of Linda.com? Yeah, that's when I started coding from scratch, I started using courses from there. And they were very helpful. That can be another great resource for you. And another great resource I'm just going to chime in here is if you have a local meet up and especially if you have a developer meet up, go there and tying back to Raquel's talk earlier about in person and meetups, go and meet somebody in person and just talk with them and maybe just get a mentor in development and they can help you with the themes and everything. Does anybody else have any other questions? Yeah, in the next slide, I'm going to read. The question was, is how can his company who finds it very hard to get women developers and female identifying developers to apply for jobs there, how can they encourage them to apply, get involved in the community, correct? Right, I can chime in on this one. So I think that it plays along with the representation piece of it of having other women being there and kind of having that mentorship. So what I would recommend is that you as a male developer go to meetups or maybe female tech events. So girl develop it, they teach women to code. That's a really great organization. There's also a lot of like, I think there's like black girls code or like another like women who code. There's lots of like women who code initiatives and go there and just be someone who just says, I just want to be a mentor. I want to help. I want to encourage more women to code because then when they are looking for that job, they're going to remember that you put yourself out there that you are willing to help and whatever company you're working at and they'll be like, maybe I want to work at this company because clearly they have great people that they can work with that are going to be supportive of me being a woman in tech. Yeah, and if you want to say something about diversity in your job postings, that could be good too, because if I'm looking for a job and I see that at the company, it's all men, that dissuades me. I'm like, what kind of culture is that going to meet? Maybe I'm not going to feel very comfortable. So if you make it a point to say, you know, we hire regardless of gender, race, whatever, or even make it a point to say, we're really looking to diversify our team and add women, you know, anything like that to make women feel more welcome. But I love what you were saying. I think that's the perfect idea. Still have time for a few more questions. Just right here in the front. Yeah. So just the question for the live stream was advice on birth through imposter syndrome and perhaps being the only female in the male dominated setting, whether it's class or just starting out in your job search and everything. I'm just going to give a little bit of advice myself because I have been there in the past is just be tenacious and don't give up. It may seem overwhelming at first, but just know that you can do it and just have the confidence, build your own confidence and I guess try and find a network. They might not be developers per se, but they're a great network. I'll also add the same thing that I said to the other answer is join those initiatives like girl developer women who code because it's going to be other women who are in the same place as you and you can also start to become a TA. You can maybe become an instructor and be able to be surrounded by a group of women that are going to make you feel stronger about what you're doing as well as like you'll end up having conversations around imposter syndrome. So just went to this like global diversity CFP day. And so that was all about like getting more women and people in diverse minorities to be more public speakers. And we actually all had a conversation about imposter syndrome and we ended up creating a meetup in Minneapolis called imposter syndromes anonymous because it was something that we were realizing that everyone had that problem. And now we've had like tons of men join. We had people outside of tech asking if it can be non tech related imposters. I think it's just something that like all of us have and we just don't realize that even the best developers still have imposter syndrome. Yeah. And whether you want to start a freelance business with it or not I would encourage you to form a tight knit group of women. So whether it's in person that's amazing. If not then online you can find other women who are also coding who are at a similar level and you can form a mastermind. And so you can meet every week or every two weeks and support each other. You know like these are the things that I'm struggling with and the other women will pitch in and help you. And that's how it goes. And it really shows you doesn't just tell it shows you that you're not alone. Right. You're all going through the same thing totally normal. Yeah. The only thing that I found really really helpful starting out of the programming and having all that was build something. Build something other people use. And that's your focus on also on that because that's where you hone your skill. That's where theory meets the life and users. Yeah. And find a project that excites you where you say OK nobody's doing not not not as a startup or as a business or something like that. Yeah. Solve a problem that can be solved with a web page with users that get something out of it and build it. Stay strong and don't be don't allow anybody to make you feel like because you're strong you are bad or mean or any of that. There's nothing wrong with being strong and standing firm and following through and handling yours. And unfortunately we are now out of time. So if you have any further questions I think we're all going to head up to the happiness bar after this and you can come chat with us there. And if not just come feel free to chat with us. We're going to be here message today and tomorrow as well. I'm going to be around the developer area tomorrow. So just come and feel free to chat with me. Don't mind stepping out and I'm sure the rest of the ladies would mind that as well. So thank you very very much for your attention and your time. Hello. Don't forget to get the speaker cards. Each of them have their own speaker cards.