 Welcome to the non-profit show. We are so glad you're here for another episode and another day of the non-profit Power Week with Fundraising Academy at National University. We have back with us today Tony Bell, where he serves as the Senior Director of the National University Academy's Relationship Center. Tony is back with us to continue the conversation that we started yesterday of because selling model in in particular phase two, and we're moving into steps three and four today. So so much to talk about with you, Tony and really glad to have you back here as we refer to it as the hot seat. Julia Patrick is also here today, CEO of the American Non-profit Academy, and I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group, honored to serve alongside Julia day in, day out to get super nerdy with her guest across the globe, as we dive into everything that has to deal with non-profits. Hey, we wouldn't be where we are, 830 plus, plus, plus episodes. Thank you to our generous and loyal supporting sponsors. So again, Fundraising Academy at National University. Again, we're Tony's joining us from. Also, Blimmering, your part-time controller, American Non-profit Academy, Non-profit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Non-profit Nerd and Non-profit Tech Talk. These companies are also with us day in and day out. Their mission, I like to say is your mission, because they want to help you do more good for those individuals and communities that you serve. So do us a favor, do them a favor, but I promise it's going to be, you know, you that's benefiting here, definitely check them out, because they're they're just stellar companies. And hey, if you missed any of those 830 plus, plus episodes, don't worry, you can find them. Go ahead, take out your smartphone now. You can scan the QR, download the app, and in just a couple of hours after today's conversation that we're having live with Tony, today's recording will be posted yesterday's already there. So if you missed yesterday's, go ahead and listen to that. We're also on the podcast platforms as well as broadcast. So anywhere you choose to consume your entertainment, bet your bottom dollar, we're there. I love it. Hey, Tony Bell, now a senior director of National University Academy's Relationship Center. Thank you so much for joining us. And really, I know you've walked this path with so many people in the educational sector, but you also have been in the fundraising and the nonprofit space. And so you bring to us the academic knowledge and leadership and role, but you've also been on the other side of that desk. And so that's what I love about this knowledge that you bring to us. Briefly, reengage us with the eight step cause selling cycle before we navigate into phase two. Sure, so the cause selling cycle, as folks can see from this great diagram, it's three phases and eight step cycle all the way from prospecting where you're kind of brainstorming that list of potential investors to support your cause, all the way to you've secured the gift. And now how do we steward that relationship? Make sure the donor one is appreciated, knowledgeable about how the guest is, I mean, the guest, the gift is being invested and then queuing them up for the next gift. So really everything from the very beginning of finding out who you should be having relationships with to support your cause to maintaining those relationships. So as you can see, the prospecting, the pre-approach, the approach, the needs discovery, which we're gonna talk about today, which we often consider the heart of the cause selling cycle. So it's really easy to follow or folks that have been in the nonprofit sector for a little while, you will find that if you dive into this, you have organically just naturally been doing a lot of this, but this really helps, this cycle really helps us kind of formalize the process to really put it in what I would consider a trackable process. And your teams can get together and weekly huddles and say, where are we with our donors? And you could say, I have 10 donors in the pre-approach phase. I have five donors in the presentation phase. This week I'm meeting with four donors on step seven, they ask. So it really is a great way to kind of track the activity and progress of your development team also. Yeah, I love that. I mentioned something on who knows what episode, but I was at lunch with a board member, many moons ago and he said, well, I better let you go. I know you got to get back to dialing for dollars. I really wish I had this diagram then to say, let me educate you on this lifesaver that we referred to yesterday. No, it's not dialing for dollars. It is really genuinely a donor centric approach, right? With the donor first and foremost, I love that you said the heart of the cycle and I can't wait to dive into that one. But I just really feel having this strategy, being able to say X amount in this step, X amount in this step or phase, depending on how you divvy up your moves management is a huge education model for the rest of the team, your board members, volunteers, right? Like so many others. And the other thing that we talk about with the cycle is that it really is all about relationships and not every relationship is the same obviously and not every relationship is formed in the same manner. So there are ways to on ramp a potential donor or investor in any of these steps. So we mentioned briefly, in the green room, if you're a community that is heavy on special events in Gallas, which here in South Florida happens in the fall, you may meet someone at the Gala, instantly build a connection with them and now you're ready to jump right into, step four with that individual. Now you're ready to just set up the meeting and have the conversation that needs discovery conversation. So just keeping in mind that you can go all the way from one to eight, but you may have relationships and donors where you're gonna onboard them, starting at step four. Yeah, I love that you clarified that because I think that makes a difference for all of us trying to figure out where we are, where our portfolio is, and then of course, those individuals. So let's talk about this. We've moved into phase two and we're gonna be talking about step three, approaching the prospective donor. What does that look like to you? Yeah, so the approach is really all about making the right first impression. And so for folks that wanna dive deeper into this curriculum, the things that we talk about there are learning ways to positively influence your individual impression, discover ways to capture the interest of prospects and find out how to leave the right first impression at your next event. So this is the type of information that folks get from the curriculum around approach. It really is all about that first impression. And I am referring to notes today. I want folks to know that because whatever I'm very specific about the curriculum, I wanna respect the integrity of the curriculum and not, I know. I just held up my book. Yeah, my textbook. Because it is a curriculum. Yeah, it is. It's a really intense, you know, intense thorough curriculum. And so also when we talk about approach, we talk about the different types of approaches in the curriculum. So there's the relevant project approach. And that approach shows your prospect that you came prepared and know what specific areas are closest to their heart. Because you've learned some of that in your pre-approach and some of the data mining that you've done and the fact gathering that you've done prior to the approach, you've learned some of these passion places and passion points for the potential investor. So it's, you know, relevant project approach, the impact approach for those individuals that I wanna hear about the impact. How many people are you serving? You know, what are the real outcomes of your work? The curiosity approach. You know, have you ever imagined, Julia, what it might be like to be homeless? To not, you know, to not have the security of a roof over your head? So, you know, so those different types of approaches. So we really dive into the compliment approach. I mean, there are just many different ways that you can approach a potential donor or investor for your organization. And that's what this step dives into. I really appreciate that. And I know that we've talked about, you know, segmenting our donors and other conversations that we've had here on the show, you know, but really honing into what is it? Even, you know, as you said, Toni, in your example, maybe the donor comes to the gala. We can jump now to step three or step four, depending on where we are now in that relationship. But we can hone back in to where that donor gave. Like when did they raise their paddle, right? When did they do an auction bid or whatever? Like what was the thing that motivated them? And that in and of itself, right? Like gives us more data. And who were the other people that they were engaged with at the gala? Who did they speak to? Who were they sitting with? Were they sitting with someone that's already adult? You know, so to your point, Jared, there are so many cues that we can pick up on in that particular scenario. I love that. I think that's really smart. And I'll tell you, I think that this is a clarion call to all of those folks in our sector who go to events and act like they're not working, you know? That maybe they're chatting with people from their own team or they're not working the room. They're not going out and doing this exact step. And it makes me crazy. Well, that's where this step can really help in a lot of that, because your event planning, when you're planning for an event, part of that event planning should be cultivation and stewardship. So, you know, so folks that have these large galas really should, you know, dive into this content in step three and really have that kind of pre-event conversation, who's gonna be there? Who's gonna go and have this connection with this individual? Looking at, really taking a look at your guest list and... Yeah. And I think that's a wonderful opportunity to engage, you know, senior leadership, as well as the board members to say, here's the five people on your list. Here's their table, right? I want you to greet them. Thank them for being here. Ask them if they have any questions. And really, like you said, you know, really dividing up that guest list of who are the people that we do need to cultivate, right? And continue to steward both. Yeah, I mean, it's a shock. I'm on the rubber chicken circuit. I mean, Jared, you are, because I see you at these sea events wearing the same color dresses, of course. Unfortunately, most often, that we just show up looking like the Bob C. Twins. But it really is, it really is just all about making a first impression and all of the things that come along with making a first impression. And in today's landscape, we make first impressions in many different ways. So our connectivity to individuals is different and varied in ways that was never varied before. So making a first impression, you may in fact connect with someone for the very first time on Zoom. So how are you minimizing distractions? What is the individual seeing behind you? If you are, what are the individuals that leads into having a bookshelf picture behind you? Be mindful of the titles of the books. I mean, really think about, you know, your first impression. So there's a lot of great content around that questions to ask, ways to prepare yourself and things to think about when you are thinking about your approach and that first impression. I love it. I love that you kind of re-centered us because now I want to ask you to really delve into need discovery. And you mentioned this in the green room chatter that in so many ways, this is like the heart of the whole concept. So talk to us about that, Tony. Yeah, so need discovery, you're right, Julie. It is the heart of the cause selling cycle. And the reason why it's the heart of the cause selling cycle is because this is when you are listening. This is the part you are done. I mean, you're asking questions, but you are really listening. The need discovery part of the cause selling cycle is where you and the donor potential investor in your organization are going to come to consensus on their readiness to commit to your organization, on their passion to connect to your organization that your ethics are aligned, that your organizational ethics and the ethics of your potential donor are aligned. You are learning so much in need discovery about this individual. And it's critical. I mean, we'll talk about the presentation in a moment, but this is critical, critical data as you prepare to move forward or not. Wow. With this potential donor or investor. That's really what it's all about. It's that learning about each other. It's that deepening their understanding of the organization and the impact that they can have on the work that your organization is doing. So it's a lot about questioning techniques and listening techniques. Sorry, Jared, I wasn't a good listener there. Go ahead. Good example. Now I have a total curveball question, Tony. During the need discovery, might you find out that the two of you or the person within fundraising and the person you're soliciting are just not a good match? Like something's just not vibing. Is this an opportunity to introduce someone else from the team to maybe chauffeur that cultivation along? Total curveball, but I'm just curious. No, no, no, I totally agree with you. And often it depends on the organization, the individual, right? But a lot of times we do talk about the power of two in some of these conversations, right? To bring a board member or if they were a referral then bringing the individual that referred them. But Jared, I think it's a really smart question. If the development professional and the potential donor for whatever reason, like you're saying just aren't vibing, I think that you can still get enough information out of that needs discovery conversation to find out if you want to move the relationship forward. Meaning are they still a good fit for the organization? Is the organization, does everything fit? And if so then, because we're not asking, we're not making an ask in our first meeting during our needs discovery, right? It really is inquiring minds want to know, right? It's all about questioning and listening. More information, more information. Yeah, so I think, so again, we're not vibing, but I'm committed to realizing whether or not this individual is a good fit for the organization if we're a good fit for this individual. Then once I have all of that information, I can go back to the office, huddle with my team and say total transparency. We didn't really have the kind of energy and vibe that I was hoping we would have, but this person is poised to make a gift to our organization and is passionate about the work that we do. Let me share with you my takeaways on this individual and then let's see who and our team might be a better fit. And then you can do an introduction and kind of hand over the relationship. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I also want to drive home that this need discovery, like you're capturing all this information, you're putting it in the database that we talked about even yesterday, right? So these are nuggets of critical information that should be transferred over time, over years through the development department as long as that donor, right, is engaged. So really looking at that. But I appreciate you answering my curve ball question because for some reason that popped up in my head. Well, I understand why it's real. It's very real, Jared. It is real. I'm glad that it popped up in your mind. And one of the things folks will, I know we're gonna talk about the portal and how folks can have access to the curriculum, but one of the things that we've done when we developed the online portal was we developed these donor quick connect questions which are part of the need discovery step. So we have personal questions, like what are you most passionate about and why? So just questions to help get the conversation going. Philanthropic centered questions, like what was the most rewarding experience you've ever had as a donor? I love that. So different categories, just different questions to help folks just kind of get the conversation going. Then maybe cause specific questions like what is it about our mission that speaks to you and why at this moment in time in particular? So really, really great, great questions that folks can use every day. Yeah, right. And I like that you just said that. These are the questions that we should be using every day that it really just helps us to understand and clarify what the path that we're all on if it's the right path, you know? So many organizations have a lot of different programming and one whole piece of an organization spirit may not speak to a donor, but something else could become absolutely, the center part of their philanthropic life. For sure. And this is where you find that out. You find out some of it in your pre-approach and your approach, but the need discovery when you're actually in front of the individual, again, whether that be face-to-face in real life or via Zoom, the questioning and then your ability to listen is really, really important. It's fascinating, fascinating. Before we move on, and again, Jared's like encouraged me the curve ball thing, get your mid catchers made up. I'm ready. Does it ever seem like you get to this point and then you're like, wow, I need to go back. I've met with this potential donor and I need to go back and rethink my approach and maybe kind of reinvest in how I'm gonna move forward or do you feel like maybe we shouldn't have any surprises at this point? Well, Noah, you may walk away from, and it's happened to me and Julia, thank you for mentioning. I mean, I spent at least 20 years actively fundraising and there was definitely more than one occasion when I left that initial needs discovery conversation having kind of more questions once I went back and kind of reflected on the experience and having more questions and not feeling like I was really settled and in a good place to move forward to the next step. So your need discovery, it may be three conversations and maybe four conversations and maybe one conversation. So there are definitely those times where you walk away and you think, hmm, we vibed, if we hit it off, but something is still not really where it needs to be in order for me to move to the next step and offer that really compelling, meaningful presentation. Yeah, wow, thank you because I think that that's a really interesting, it's a realistic answer too, so thank you. So you mentioned the presentation and again, we don't have a tremendous amount of time, but the presentation aspect, step five, we're already at step five and it's really an incredible thing, the things that we've gone through to get to this piece and as Jared reminded us, this is not the ask part. Where in the asking? It's not the ask part and similar to need discovery, you may do multiple presentations. Okay. Before, you know, and we all know and for folks that are new to the industry, I'll say this, trust your gut. Yeah. You know, you'll have enough of these experiences where just, and just life experience, right? But you may give two presentations, three presentations before your gut says, okay, now is there other factors too, but I trust I got a lot on some of these things where you're saying, okay, all indicators are this is the right presentation to make the ask. Okay. Or to get us to the next place to make the ask because we still have handling objections and that'll be a great conversation later on this week. Right, right. So in the presentation, when you talk about this, Tony, are you saying like this is how we communicate? I mean, to your point, and Jared and I wouldn't be here without what has occurred with COVID. I mean, we had to change our presentation. So are you talking about, you know, this is like at a restaurant, in an office, on Zoom, letters, what is it that we're talking about? So I think it's all of those, right? I wish it were so simple, right? I'm talking about a boardroom and a PowerPoint, right? But it's not that simple. Sometimes you're going to want to take props. So if you're a nonprofit who has an arts program where your clients in the community you serve are making art, you might want to take a piece of art that is made as part of your presentation. Leave it as a gift, perhaps. I mean, but that's what this part of the curriculum really talks about. It talks about all of the ways to prepare for a presentation, all of the things to think about based on what we've learned about the donor in our approach and need discovery, right? In need discovery, I have learned that Jared loves Huskies. I don't know if you knew that, Jared, but you love Huskies. It's your favorite dog. I do. So when I am putting together that presentation, I may put a Husky with a little speech bubble that says just whatever. You know what I mean? That might have some statistic or something. Just something that's going to personalize, personalize the experience for the potential donor so that they know that you see them as an individual and not as a statistic or a KPI. That, to me, speaks volumes. I was doing a strategic planning retreat and I knew that the CEO had this huge infatuation with dogs, in particular, her dog, you know? But I did. I incorporated some dog photos in there, even though it was a totally different sector than animal welfare. It just, there's these little ways you can customize and personalize it. And I just love that so much. And I think there's so many ways to just insert a few of those things like, hey, I'm listening, I'm paying attention, I see you, right? And I see what's of interest to you. Because again, this entire curriculum is built on the desire to improve one-on-one relationships with our donors. Right. And I love the props. In particular, the art is really good. I do a lot of work with human services. I could even see like bringing in a grocery bag filled with trees to prove the example of this is how many groceries a family of four receives. Or again, there's so many opportunities, I think. Yeah, there is. And get creative. Most folks in development roles are super creative people. So really lean into the creative part of this work and create these meaningful experiences. If during your presentation, that potential donor walks away feeling like they've not only had a meaningful conversation, but some kind of meaningful experience in the time that they've spent with you, awesome. I love it too. Imagine if you are an animal welfare and you bring a puppy, are you bringing a little kitten, right? Like you bring something tangible. Oh my gosh, puppies and babies, kryptonite and the fundraising. It's so true. It's so true. I love it. But as folks dive into the curriculum, it really is about how to plan for your presentation and how to be able to show up as your authentic self as well in planning for your presentation. And there's different presentation styles, right? Like there's an impromptu, there's the formal, as you talked about like the boardroom with the PowerPoint. And all of this I know dives deeper on the portal, which thank you, Julia, for pulling this up online.fundraising-academy.org. Tony mentioned this yesterday, again today, the portal is free. Check it out. We are merely scratching the surface here with these conversations. The portal dives deep and deep and deep. And there's no time that you cannot dive into this cycle, right? I mean, we thought that maybe there was, right? Maybe it's a seasonality to it, but Tony, my friend, you proved us wrong. Well, we're meeting potential investors for our organizations every day. All the time. Yeah, so we need to be ready to kind of, again, on-ramp someone into the cost selling cycle at any given moment of the year. I love it. Well, Tony Bell, Senior Director of National University Academy's Relationship Center, an amazing, amazing leader in our sector, in education, but more importantly, in the nonprofit space, because he has walked this journey of leadership and fundraising. And so he brings this amazing knowledge and process to us. And so we always love it when we can get you away from your busy schedule to help us. So again, check out Tony's work and you can learn more about all the things that Fundraising Academy is doing at fundraising-academy.org. It is an amazing, amazing amount of work, but really it truly is in knowledge. Hey everybody, Nonprofit Power Week is always a favorite for Jared and I because we get one week, five days where we get to really, really focus in on something with our guests. And so Nonprofit Power Week today brought to us through the work, the hard work at Fundraising Academy at National University, Bloomerang, your part-time controller, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. Jared, what show number are we at? Somewhere close to 830. You know, we're past 830. We are definitely past 830. Amazing. Well, thank you to all of these folks that are with us day in and day out and especially, you know, I gotta give a shout out to Fundraising Academy because they are truly one of the very first voices that we encountered and talked about and then it was just amazing. So as we like to end every episode, we want to remind everybody to stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow for another exploration of cause selling with Fundraising Academy.