 Well, ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Excellencies, good morning. And it's a great pleasure for me now to have this discussion with, I would say, professor now, Minister Nabil Fahmi, who is in his current position, he is the dean of the School of Global and Public Affairs of the American University of Cairo and very well known former minister of foreign affairs of his country. And I would say one of the most respected thinkers also in international affairs in the region and worldwide. He's very well known worldwide and we had many occasions to meet together, in particular Nabil in Beijing, where we in the last few years have had regular until the pandemic a very interesting meeting in Beijing on global affairs with some distinguished Chinese authorities. So Nabil, thank you very much, you have accepted at last my invitation to participate in the WPC. We are very proud and repeat to have you here. And I would like to ask you just to start the discussion, what are your general impressions of the last two days, the discussion in terms of perception of the mood of very, very various people all interested in international affairs. This is the first, I remind the first international gathering of some significance taking place and talking of private institutions on international affairs since the lockdown and so forth and so on. So what is your general impression before we start talking more precisely? Sure. First of all, Tiri, thank you very much for the invitation. This is a very prestigious event and the last two days have been very informative for me that we started our dialogue in Beijing and we're actually convening in Emirates I think reflects also what's happening around the world in terms of Chinese prominence and Emirate activism and constructivism. So also thank you very much to the hosts for doing this. This has been interesting and you and I attend many, many conferences, but it's been interesting because it's about policy and policy ultimately determines what we do in the future. It isn't simply an analysis of history, which is useful, but not enough to move forward. The other point I really took from all this is there's an underlining emphasis on we have to work together. If you wanted to arrange an event in support of collective action, this is something that is frankly a primary event in that respect. Everybody here has been emphasizing we can't do this alone. How strong or how weak we are. The third point is it's been factual, not theory. Everybody has come up with a case, given us the figures, told us the real facts and then built on the policy orientation. So I can tell you I've been attending the overwhelming majority of the sessions. Everyone I've gained inside information and I leave not with a sense of euphoria that we have solutions for all our problems that would be naive, but definitely with a sense that the world wants to work together at least the thinkers in the world and in that respect I want to thank you quick for convening the event. Well thanks to you. I think that what you are saying fits very well with what Dr. Gargash said yesterday because when you are not, which is the case of most countries represented here, when you are not among the giants, the superpowers you have to spend a lot of time to understand one another and to try to convince others of reasonable positions and includes and rule out the extremist positions. Now today, most of the day we'll be discussing medallist issues at large, medallist in a very large sense and I think we have, the last two days we have often alluded I would say to Egypt, but we have not discussed anything precise about Egypt. Egypt is perhaps historically the most important, not the superpower, but certainly the most important country I say that cautiously and not to be attacked on this remark, but in the medallist and of course in terms also of population, tradition and so forth and so on. So how would you describe Egypt's role today in the geopolitical scene of the medallist which has been through major transformations in the last two years? Of course I'm thinking of the Abraham Accords, but not only that, so with huge internal problems of course, so I think we would all be very much interested to having your view and the situation of Egypt both domestically and externally, because one of the things that you would all agree on is that it is impossible to separate domestic and foreign affairs entirely. Sure, just very quickly, the Middle East generally has been a theater for international engagement because of superpower rivalry in the past and because we attracted them more than we actually should have as Middle Easterners. I say this because the world has been changing and we have been changing at the same time. When I was minister, I would occasionally joke but it was actually true that my nightmares were easier than my days because I would wake up and I would see that we have a problem on the western border in Libya, we have a water problem looking south, there's no Arab-Israeli peace process, problems in the Levant with Syria, you go down to Yemen, there are problems there, issue of terrorism, a lot of things. So the Middle East has been, has and is going through significant change both geopolitically because of what's happening around the world but also regionally and as you said I mentioned the regional conflicts but the transformations are also going through domestically throughout the region including in my own country. We had two revolutions in three years that in itself shows you that there was a domestic desire for change. I critically but in a constructive sense and I say this back home, this is not something I say abroad only, I've always criticized my own institutions, my own colleagues, we need to be more proactive, we don't have to wait for events to happen. When I moved into the academic environment I termed it that a lot in the region have a generic resistance to change and what I see different now is up until 2010, 2015, last few years everybody in the Middle East was talking about the past then suddenly with 2011 onwards every government in the Middle East today starts off not with emphasizing their heritage which is proud but with emphasizing what they will do for their people in the future that's also happened in Egypt. We have problems we're looking for a secure border in Libya there's progress there but it's not yet want to solve the the water issue there's no progress there I'm very candid about these things we're disappointed with the lack of a peace process between Arabs and Israelis and Palestinians and Israelis in particular because we want peace for both sides and so on we were very busy domestically because we can't argue that we had two revolutions but it didn't affect our attention of course it affected our attention you've pursued foreign policy to achieve domestic aspirations in other words even if you're looking for resources it is to solve your service requirements and one thing which is paramount about Egypt in the past and in the future we live on two continents Sinai is actually in Asia so we live in Africa Asia we live on two seas we import our food we get our water from abroad national security capacity from abroad and we're trying to attract investment you cannot do that without an active foreign policy what I've seen recently this last year in particular Egypt is much more engaged now in trying to determine movement and regional issues that's clear in Libya since summer not this summer summer of last year just a week ago the Egyptian foreign minister met the Syrian foreign minister and I would say attended a very well arranged meeting by Iraq at the General Assembly of regional players in the Middle East with a number of Arab players we are trying to to engage in a dialogue we engage in a dialogue with Turkey slow it's very slow don't be too overly optimistic it's very slow I would suggest also we need to engage with the Iranians and I'm always going to be a proponent of trying to push the Arab Israeli peace process in all difficulties so Egypt had if you want it faced a couple of hurdles the strength of the system I doubt very few countries in the region and some abroad frankly could have survived two revolutions in three years and come outstanding and we're 104 million probably by the time we finish this session or this meeting tomorrow will be a bit more than than that as well they're not going away 65 percent are younger than 25 years old so you will see more activism in terms of Egypt just again yesterday I think it was announced that we're going to host the environment conference after the one in Glasgow and we will engage with any country in the region that wants to move forward now you asked about changes in the in the Middle East everybody's talking about moving forward there's progress on Libya but I would hope but doubt that we'll have the elections in December but I would love to be proven wrong it's more important for me to have successful elections delayed a month or on time is is irrelevant for me but there's at least desire to have a Lebanese a Libyan solution here and of course for interference has to decrease I don't see an Arab Israeli peace process immediately but there is humanitarian engagement that is a bit more than what it was in the past but we need to move on that as well we will support all of our Arab brothers in existential threats that they face in in in the region but again we honestly believe that the way forward is to engage others not I mean in many ways tough love if you if you if you want we need to be looking forward and let me seize this occasion to actually call on Egypt and the Arab countries I think we should all speak much more about our vision for the future for the region what we want to see for the Middle East as a whole in concrete terms and by the way we don't have to agree but we need to engage in a dialogue and let's see how much agreement and how much disagreement we have because allowing others to set the agenda is very dangerous well thank you very much for this extremely interesting remarks now I'd like to put two aspects together to relate to two important aspects of the current situation on the one hand we have at least a partial withdrawal of the retreat of the United States I say partial withdrawal because I think we have we should be quite cautious in describing the the situation but whatever the exact term would be the fact is that some powers took advantage of this situation to intervene in Mediterranean or Middle East affairs in relatively you would say 19th century way I'm thinking particularly of Turkey and Russia for a typically in in Libya or in eastern Mediterranean eastern Mediterranean sea so this kind of development I made a point in my own introductory speech I repeat let us make a think more of the 19th century or previous world war one situation on the other hand that the second point from a more societal sociological viewpoint we have everywhere in the Middle East a kind of generation fight between conservatism and modernism and one of the points which I admire for instance in this country is that this this rivalry between generational rivalry is dealt with in a relatively smooth way and things are moving and in the in the in the right direction but in a smooth way and I think the Saudi Arabia they are trying to to to do the same in Egypt the situation seen from outside seems to be much more complicated maybe because of the size of the population for historical reason after all the Muslim brothers phenomenon was born in in Egypt and I would like you to comment on that because what happens what the future developments in your country will be will certainly have a huge impact on the on the rest of the region well let me start with my own country the basic challenge between the Muslim brotherhood and the rest of the Egyptian system was about our identity are we Egyptians including some Muslim brotherhood or are we Muslim brotherhood that have some Egyptians that's an existential threat and that's why the clash happened so quickly that's actually why not only political influencers but also the middle class were actually against the the the the former government that was being implemented by the Muslim brotherhood when they came into power the Muslim brotherhood was born in Egypt there will be some trends in Egypt but the reality is if you try to build for the future then our youth want to be engaged in the world I have two three children two of whom got their jobs internationally on the internet I had to compete with the person next door for my job they're competing internationally and they were comfortable with that they're passionately Egyptian but at the same time they're part of the world a dogmatic ideology doesn't fit Egypt we live on to seize we need to engage with the world and I actually think that that ideology is a threat to modernity the influence of the brotherhood today in Egypt is very highly diminished and the government presently whether one agrees or disagrees with some details of policy is relevant is an activist government trying to respond to the basic immediate needs of the people but at the same time understand and that's why I said this last year you saw this shift between focus only on domestic to having a self-confidence now which allows me to host the environment conference which allows me to engage the Turks which allows me to engage other players in in the region and I see that as a positive a point made by Dr. Honorary yesterday which 100% support we need to speak together as Arabs we don't always have to agree Arabs are lovely in their ability to agree our problem is our inability to disagree I actually want a discussion where there are differences of opinion because understanding your opinion understanding mine is paramount whether we agree or not comes in second best and the more we engage with our non-Arab partners the more important it is for us Arabs to speak together as well so it's not at the expense of priorities here I see to go back quickly to Egypt there's clear evidence of economic progress even post pandemic we're looking at 45 growth this this coming here which is significant it's not enough for us we need to go up to eight and nine but you can't jump from zero to eight and nine just three weeks ago we issued a new human rights doctrine again it's not perfect human rights doctrines anywhere in the or an applications anywhere in the world are not perfect but it's tremendous progress and it's reflection of we want to move forward the government is focusing on youth frankly I'd like to attract some attention for our age bracket but it is focusing on youth quite constructively so short term it's going to be a challenge medium term I'm much more comfortable but as an Egyptian given our weight given the role that I think we have to play I also want us to be able to look long-term and engage with our neighbors thank you this is why we introduced a session this morning on the trying to think about the Middle Eastern in 30 years 30 years from from now before I give the floor to to some of our members and participants let me ask you to tell very briefly what do you expect from the Europeans and when I say the Europeans I am aware that talking about the Europeans is almost as difficult as talking about the Arabs well I'll tell you and I'll I started off by saying we're all in search of identity from America writes through the superpowers into our region but that also applies frankly in Europe we look at Europe our traditionally closest friends and we just don't feel that you're giving us a clear message and that's obvious so we're actually engaging Europe quite strongly economically but the debate on general policy issues is more formal than intense I love to see a stronger European engagement on how we work on the Mediterranean and then also on all the waterways because the discussions over the last few days have shown for example the difficulties on supply chains and so and so on and I'd emphasize again the point that we've been hearing throughout this conference we're in this game all together nobody can say I'm going to stay out and then reap the benefits or isolate myself from the negative implications so you are as Europeans strong countries healthy countries you have good economies you have your priorities I grant you that I don't want you to embrace ours but there has to be a level of engagement that is much stronger than it is today and I would argue here I don't want to make you Egyptian you should not try to make me French but we should try to manage the optimum advantages we get in the relationship and then manage our differences so that they're not detrimental to each other Europe in all candidness and I'll leave my diplomatic experience aside you need to be a stronger player than where you are today I agree that bill thank you very much