 Welcome to Screen Time Reset. I'm your host, Lauren Pear. Today's title is Pioneers Navigating Uncharted Waters because that's exactly the position parents are in today. They have this whole new dimension of parenting to contend to thanks to smartphones and tablets and there really doesn't appear to be any formal structures in place to help educate or support them as they do it. This is also a topic that many parents are reluctant to discuss publicly. I got quite a number of no's from parents I asked to come on and are a reluctant yes from my guest today who's doing me a favor and it's much appreciated. So I want to give a big thanks to Todd Cox, a father with a daughter in elementary school at a local school here, Punahou School, who is bravely coming on my show and sharing his perspective as a parent navigating the waters of the digital age. Welcome to the show, Todd. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Lauren. I appreciate it. Yeah. To start off, can you just tell us a little bit of background about yourself when you came to Hawaii, about your family, anything you want to share with us, your education? Yeah, sure. So we came here to Hawaii about 11, 12 years ago or so. I came with the Air Force and I've transitioned into the Navy now. I'm a senior civilian with the Navy. I have an amazing wife. I have four pretty awesome kids, age 29, 24, 19, and a seven year old. So it's pretty expansive as far as that layout, but it's pretty awesome too. So also of, I guess maybe recent, I guess within six years or so, I've gotten two master's degrees, one in education and one in is management of information systems. So my education one was in adults. So I really enjoyed both of those as well. So, you know, I don't know what I was going to do with them, but you know, as far as the information systems, I deal with technology every day at my work. As far as the education, I just, it was something I was interested in and it just began to enlighten me the further I dove into it. And so it's pretty awesome. Yeah. You know, it's one of, it's so funny because one of the, one of the things of my education master's is that I wrote a paper about how, you know, about integrating technology into the youth and get them going on tablets and stuff because I felt like, you know, that was, you know, that was something that they needed to master because if they don't, then they're going to be left behind. And so that was kind of, that was my thinking at the time. Yeah. But now I think I've come a little bit around a little bit. Yeah. And that phrase falling behind, I mean, you just hear it again and again from parents about the fear of not having technology. And I think it intuitively makes a lot of sense, which is why it's so easy to adopt that belief without being overly critical about it. So we can jump into that a little more later, but just as like a high level of, you know, your parents in this digital age. So what, you know, sort of, what do you hope for your daughter, which is sort of the end goal of parenting, right? What do you want for her as she grows up and into adulthood? You know, so Lily seven, so I've had a few years to think about this. And and so what, there's two books that have really caged me. Emotional intelligence, it talks about self awareness, self direction, empathy and relationship building and stuff like that. And then another one is growth mindsets like Harold Dweck book, which talks about being resilient, you know, and never giving up and, and, and, you know, keep, keep going, even if you make mistakes, you know, actually mistakes are good because that's how you're going to learn. But, but the book largely is about being resilient and keep going and not giving up, right? And so those are the things that when I think about Lily is, and those are the things that we talk about almost on a daily basis, to be honest with you, you know, and soccer and, you know, I try to teach her to be self aware about what's around her and so forth. So as she grows up, my hopes for Lily is that she, she takes those characteristics, you know, and, and molds them into different pieces, like being an engaging civilian, you know, and, and having a relationship that's meaningful, giving back to the community. I mean, the community is giving to her right now. So I want her to be able to give back to the community, you know. So those are, those are the things I hope for Lily. Very cool. Yeah. And, and what do you fear for her? What do you worry might get in the way of these dreams you have for her? I think when I think about those things is that I think about her not having any ambition, you know, not having any sort of drive and just kind of being relaxed and not having any set goals about what she wants to do or where she wants to go. Because if she doesn't have those goals, then she could be, you know, whichever way the wind blows, you know, she wants to run to this next or she wants to do this next or she wants to do this next. And so I think she doesn't want to do anything. Or she doesn't want to do anything, right? That's true. So, you know, I worry, I worry about her ambition, I worry about her setting goals for herself, worry about relationships, the exact opposite of what we're trying to build her for, you know, not having that meaningful relationship with anyone, if you will, you know, much less, you know, her soulmate or her spouse or whatever that is. So, yeah, those are the things that worry me. Yeah, so the relationships and then this idea that you might not have direction and just kind of drift. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's exactly, you know, and at that point you could be anybody's puppet, right? You know, you could, you could, you know, you're very manipulatable. Exactly. Whether it's a good person or a bad person, you can easily follow, you know, whatever you're believing at that time. So, yeah. Well, that gives us a sense of, you know, you know, what you want for your daughter, which I think is really important to talk about and think about. And now we're going to shift a little bit into, I guess I would start by saying that, you know, I think there's this big mismatch, as I mentioned at the beginning, that there really aren't these structures in place to educate and support parents. And meanwhile, the evidence is piling up that these technologies do have a profound influence on children. So I'm curious just getting the parent's perspective, I mean, of if and where you're getting information on this, you know, has your doctor talked to you about springtime? Is that something he brings up regularly or she? No, it's not. So, you know, I don't recall any sort of questionnaire. I don't recall him asking, you know, hey, how much springtime is Lily getting, right? Or any sort of thing, you know, certainly not for the previous kids, but for Lily specifically, I don't remember that or I've never thought that he's asked me that question. What about her school? What about Punahou? Have they given you information, resources, or rundown on how to think about it? They really haven't. I mean, we talk about, they talk about using it in the classroom. And I think it's awesome. You know, I don't know if we're talking apples and oranges, you know, from social media and whatever. But, you know, in the classroom, you know, they're, it's not all technology. It's a little bit just to get them going, you know, and just get them being creative in a different world, right? You know, because you can be creative here in this world but being creative on there. But no, they're not talking about me and how I manage screen time at home. Or the potential negative consequences. Or the exactly, exactly. Yeah. And I just want to point out that from what I understand, except maybe with Waldorf, I'm not aware of any schools that do this. So it's not to point the finger at Punahou by a long shot. It's that's the standard as far as the parents I've been talking to from a host of different schools. And what about, have you seen any information coming out from the government, say the CDC or the Department of Health or a consumer protection agency or anything like that? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, I don't have any information about the way that screen time threatens, you know, these characteristics that I mentioned earlier. So no. Yeah. And what about other parents? Is this something that you've noticed parents talking about amongst each other a lot or? No, that one either. I mean, we don't, you know, we talk about, hey, what is your kid, you know, what kind of sports are they in? Or we talk about, you know, maybe what time they go to bed, although that's a slippery slope, right? But we don't talk about managing screen time because now you're starting to talk about parent techniques and are you a good parent or a bad parent? So I think we kind of stay away from that. And I don't think we talk about it because other parents don't know equally, right? I mean, they're not potentially not educated on this same information that I'm not educated on. And you're the class dad, right? And part of the PTA. So it just goes to show it's not that you're not an involved dad who ever talks to other parents. That's true. That's true. Yeah. I am. Yeah. And so given all of that, given that you're not really getting a lot of feedback or information from your doctor or from your school or from the government and your parents certainly wouldn't have been in a position to counsel on this since they didn't have to deal with it, how do you manage screen time? How do you come to that? So it's in our little book that we get with every kid, right? The little parent book, right? Oh, okay. So I say that, you know, sarcastically as well. So I didn't know about it. But as I continue to talk to Lily about these things, and then one day when I said, Lily, Lily, excuse me, Lily, Lily, you know, and then finally she reacted. And I was like, oh my goodness, you know, she is totally not aware of what's going on. She is, she is in that thing. And so from that point on, I began to kind of just start, I don't know if just noticing, I guess, and being aware. And then from that point, I started limiting a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. And I'm still not where I would like to be, you know, by any stretch of the imagination. But I am at least aware now that that thing is doing something, right? And I mean, through our conversations, I realized a little bit more and so forth. But at the time, I didn't know. I just, I saw an example, and that's, and I didn't appreciate it. And so I kind of started coming back off of that tablet. Do you remember about when that was? I, you know, I would say maybe, maybe two years ago, you know, if I had to guess, I would, you know, because before then I wasn't too, too much, too management heavy on it, but maybe a little bit. I don't know why, but I was a little bit. Maybe it's instinct of some sort. But yeah, I would say about two years ago, I mean, you know. And Lily does have her own phone, right? She does. And when, when did you get it? Was that self-reporting right there? We appreciate that, honestly. I'm not perfect. I'm up here, right? I'm not perfect either. So, what was the question again? When did she get her phone? Okay. So maybe about a year ago, maybe just over a year ago. And it happened so quickly because it was just so easy. One, one of the, one of the kids was transitioning to another phone and his phone became handy and it was, she was there. We were there and she was like, oh, I get a phone. And it's like, oh, okay. You know, and he just kind of went to her, right? And so that's how it started. That's how it happened. That's how that happened. Well, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll pick up right there. Awesome. Thanks. Aloha and welcome to At the Crossroads. I'm your host, Keisha King. You can catch me every Wednesday live at five. I'll see you there. Hi, Mabuhay. My name is Amy Ortega Anderson, inviting you to join us every Tuesday here on Pinoy Power, Hawaii. With Think Tech, Hawaii, we come to your home at 12 noon every Tuesday. We invite you to listen, watch for our mission of empowerment. We aim to enrich, enlighten, educate, entertain, and we hope to empower. Again, maraming, salamat po, Mabuhay, and aloha. And we're back. So what have you noticed? You know, we were talking about Lily has her, her phone, and what do you notice about her behavior on it? And then, particularly when you take it away. Right. It's a great question. And so I gave you the example of when I was talking to her and she wasn't paying attention. So now it's really quickly, she didn't have earphones and anything like that. Right. Yeah. And she was right there. Great point. But now, so I'm also her soccer coach. And so it's funny because I notice that when we have an early game, you know, 11 ish or whatever, you know, it's easy to get her up in the morning, get her going, get some breakfast, get going, moving around. And then we get out the door and we're off to the soccer field. Not an issue. It's when we have a little later on, you know, game in the afternoon. If she has time to grab ahold of technology and grab ahold of the iPad, her phone, whatever, I notice a very distinct difference between when she gets it and then I have to pull it away and say, because I have to pull it away an hour or two before the game, because I got to get her dressed and got to get her, you know, out the door and so forth. So, you know, when you pull her away, she's very sluggish. She's very unaware of, you know, kind of what's going on, you know, it's the whole roll off the couch thing, you know, fine, I'll give it, you know, less attentive. And then even in the game, you see some, you know, less resilient, maybe a little bit more argumentative about some certain things, you know, yeah, sure. You know, it's like, come on, let's go. Right. And so, but I see, you know, and so that's why I just do not let her have it on game day for sure, you know, that because I just got to keep that away from her. You know, it's so interesting because we have a bill, I worked with a state senator, Russell Ruderman on putting together a bill that he's introduced, that's really cool. And in looking through the testimony, another mom mentioned that exact same thing, except it was with her son with basketball. But it makes me wonder like how many parents are noticing that issue, particularly with sports. What about when you take it away, do you notice like bratty behavior? That's another thing that some parents talk about, or does Lily not really show that so much? I don't think she shows that. I've never, I've never given labeled that characteristic honor to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. And what do you have any sense that peer pressure or peer influence is a factor in her use of technology or not so much? I don't think at this age there's a large peer pressure. You know, I mean, if you label it from afar, you know, there's, again, she's got her phone. So if she takes a picture and wants to Snapchat it real quick, you know, I remember an example, you know, where she, she took a Snapchat and so she's trying to, trying to post it or whatever, get it out there so that others can see. And she just happened to miss the other thing that was happening. I don't remember if it was an animal or something, you know. And I was like, Lily, look, look. She was like, I gotta get this out. I gotta get this out. So I don't know, maybe, but I don't think there's other kids sitting there going, Lily, let's get your phone. Let's, let's watch that. Right. Or you're not cool enough because you're, you don't have it. Exactly. Yeah. I know that some, at some point, the, the peer pressure becomes a salient issue, but at age seven. Yeah. I don't think it's quite there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that's good to hear. So I'm curious, you've talked about, or in one of our past conversations, considering taking her phone away. And this is, even though, I mean, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit, but you have fairly strict limitations with her phone. She normally spends like a half an hour, an hour a day watching shows on it. So given that she's not, you know, consuming excessive amounts, why are you still thinking about, you know, maybe taking it away? Well, because it's, so honestly, it's one more thing that's added to my job jar, to be honest with you. I mean, it's, as if we're not busy enough, it's one more thing that I have to say no to her about. And, you know, if she says, Hey, you know, I'm going to watch whatever it is, you know, and I have to say, no, not right now, we've got a, we're going to eat dinner, go wash your hands, you know, or go get dressed for bed, etc. You know, going down the, going down the road. I mean, hey, I'd like to watch my phone for a little bit. How about we not, you know, let's look outside, let's look at the trees, let's look at cars, hey, let's see if we can name the car, you know, whatever, just try to use your imagination in the real world versus, you know, consuming, you know, or just whatever is on the video screen there at the time. So it's another thing that's added, you know, and there's, there's third order effects to that, that piece of it, which is, okay, now I've got to plug it in, I got to make sure that it's plugged in and just charge for the ride, you know, wherever, or I got to make sure that, you know, where is it? Let's, let's spend the next three to five minutes looking for something so that we can put it in the car. And so, you know, we just don't have enough time. And that's ironic, right? Because the reason a lot of parents use it presumably is because it's easy and convenient, but then as you point out, it creates conflict and it sounds like some begging, negotiating, and that like gets grating for parents. That is true. I mean, like what you said, you know, what I thought was easy, you know, because it, it occupied her time in the short run, right? But it, but now as she's becoming a little older and a little more able to express herself and communicate back and forth, now it's, it's becoming more challenging to manage that. And so if I had to do it over again, I would have certainly limited it and not, not given it to her. So we have some decisions to make here real quick. Yeah. Yeah. I mentioned at the beginning how hard it is to get parents to talk about this. And I remember one of my, there's an amazing, she's a doctor and a mom, and a documentarian made a great documentary called Screenagers. Her name is Delaney Rustin. And I remember her talking about how very difficult it was to get parents to talk about this. She'd done another project on mental health in Asia and said, you know, that was tough to get people to open up about that there because Asian culture is not quite as into feelings and expressions. Maybe we aren't, she's like, but honestly, it was harder to get parents in the U S to talk about screen time. Why do you think it's so, why do you think that is? Well, I mean, so when you asked me about the phone, or you brought that up a minute ago, I felt this thing come over me, you know, like self reporting, you know, like, oh, you know, now it maybe I'm not doing it right, or maybe, you know, so there's two pieces. One is self reporting for myself, you know, and I don't want to be graded as a parent. And so when you're talking to somebody else, you may have that potential to feel like it. The other thing is that I don't know, I don't know enough to be able to talk to somebody about it, you know, because as soon as I say, you know, that's, it's not really good, or it's, you know, it makes them less resilient, or it makes them less self aware. I don't, I don't know the information that backs that up, you know. So, and I think that that's, you know, that's something with parents, you know, I mean, we know that kids need sleep. Right. So therefore, we talk about, hey, what time is your kid go to bed? What time do they wake up? You know, so in sort of an inadvertent way of talking about that. But, you know, So the judgment is what I'm hearing. And I do hear that from the judgment and education. Judgment and education. Yeah. There's a lot of parents feel, and I think rightly so, that they judge just for so many things, bedtime, like you mentioned, food, probably a lot of things that I'm not even at screen time, and many more. Yeah. So, well, I want to take that opportunity again to thank you for bravely coming on to, to help, because it's a really important perspective. And, you know, people are shy about talking about it. So lastly, I want to move to solutions. Right. What, what would be helpful for you as a parent? We kind of went through, I mean, the structures are not in place to, to teach and educate you, you know, what, what would you want the government or your school or your doctor to be doing? And what, what do you think is the most important of those three? Yes, all of those, you know, all of those. So, I mean, you know, I'd like some information from the government, you know, maybe do some research of some sort, you know, help, help start defining what this is and what, you know, how, how is, you know, Lily or, or anyone watching the screen, how does that start to degrade some of those characteristics I mentioned earlier? And so, if somebody can tell us that, right? And so I think the doctors are going to look to government research and so forth. And I think the schools will either they can do it themselves or they can look other ways as well. So, but if the doctor can ask me these questions, you know, how much time are you given screen time? You know, and I would certainly be honest with, you know, about that or, or if the school says, hey, you know, we're trying to, you know, these are our aims here to try to build these this resilient child, you know, so I'm sure you're not, you know, trying to threaten that or counteract that with a screen time or whatever. And I'm be like, what, you know? And so if somebody could do that, but I really think it, it starts with the government, you know, like pushing this out and trying to make educate people and tell us, you know, if you and I talked about like secondhand smoke and stuff like that, nobody knew until it became apparent, you know, and pushed out by it. So you think that all the actors have a role but that it's important that the government sort of step in. I mean, I do really hear that that from a parent's perspective, I think doctors, pediatricians are supposed to ask like one or two questions about screen time, but that's different than telling you the harms. So if your doctor's not really talking about it and your school's not really talking about it and everyone's doing it and the government hasn't come out to warn about it, what are you to think, right? I mean, like, why wouldn't you think it's okay? You would probably think if it was, you know, linked to serious concerns that the government would be warning me and, and yeah. So I do hope so. I really do. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's helpful. And I also think for parents, you know, asking these questions, being proactive about like asking teachers or emailing a dean or a principal, if, you know, your school's not talking to you about this and you'd like to get information and, and asking your, your doctor as well, that if, if they start getting the sense that this is information parents want to know and caught a little flat footed parents are asking, they don't have anything, maybe they'll start thinking about it more. But I just, you know, a piece of that is that I don't know what I don't know. So I don't know that I'm asking the right questions or, you know, I mean, I wouldn't think to ask about, hey, what are the detriments of screen time? I think it's got to, it's got to come out as some sort of campaign, you know, just, you know, pieces of events linked together in time, you know, some sort to educate or just get it out there to the parents so that they see it somehow. Yeah. And then they can start asking the questions. I mean, like, wait, didn't I see something about screen time? You know, teacher, what about this? Yeah, or whatever. And I mean, I would take that as an opportunity to say that Senate bill SB 433 is currently alive in the Hawaii State Senate. I think that we're one of the, I think it's very early. I don't think a lot of other states have even introduced bills like this. So for any parent watching, you know, call up your local state representative, your local state senator and say that this is something you care about and you want to see the bill heard and passed. I agree with you. Yeah. And also, you know, just reiterate too, that asking your schools and your doctors is a good way to go to start the conversation. I feel like starting the conversations, we're still at that stage where we're not, we need to talk about it more. Agreed. Yeah. Well, thank you so much again for coming on, Todd. It was a pleasure and a valuable perspective. And I'm curious from the audience, if anyone has any solutions that they think could help solve this problem, please email me at screentimereset at gmail.com to let me know. Thank you so much. And until next time.