 It's my pleasure to introduce Dr. Fergal McNamara. Fergal is currently the coordinator for electricity distribution system operators at Eurelectric. It's around about 2,500 DSOs. He's seeking to represent their views in public affairs matters in the European Union before that many of us would have known Fergal as senior energy advisor at the Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources. But he's been, I think, in all about a quarter of a century in the area of, yes, it is a quarter of a century. The design and regulation of electric power markets. It's a nice sort of body of experience there. I'm the head of capacity market design at the British Department of Energy and Climate Change, group regulation manager at the ESB, the first secretary general of the Electricity Association of Ireland. So as his title indicates, he's going to give us a perspective from the electricity industry on last November's clean energy for all Europeans, the package of legislative instruments and regulations and so on, which amount he tells me because he sleeps with them under his pillow. 4,000 pages. Thank you very much, Owen. Thank you for that very kind introduction. It's great to be here at the Institute. I've been coming here for many years, in fact from when I was first founded in 1994. I've been a regular here for a very long time and it's always great to be back here and see many former colleagues and old friends. So thank you all for coming to hear me this afternoon. And I'll tell you what I'm going to cover. I'm going to outline the commission's proposals of last November, the clean energy package for all Europeans. I'm going to speak a little bit about where it is, the process, the co-decision process and how it's getting on and what are the prospects like, what are the timetables. And then I'm going to try to give you the views of the electricity industry on some parts of it. Clearly it's a huge package and the industry is very broad. And I'm going to whiz around the various instruments and regulations and give you as best a summary as I can of what's in it and what we think of it. And I'm especially going to do that on behalf of the distribution system operators of Europe. And the distribution, I'll say DSO from now on, the DSOs are the smaller last mile electricity distribution wires companies. That's who they are. So first of all, who is your electric? Who is it here this afternoon speaking to you? Well, your electric is the trade association for the electricity industry in Europe. It's been around for more than 20 years and before that it had another name. So it's a really long standing organization. It's got about 3,500 of the electricity former utilities, if you like, from all the member states, including OECD Europe. Of those 3,500, about two and a half thousands are the DSOs, my constituency basically. You'll see that we have about, collectively, the industry has about 200 million customers, or half a trillion of turnover and some of the production stats, you can see them there, 1,100 gigawatts of power production with 3,500 terawatt hours produced annually. So that is your electric. That is who we are. What do we do? We have sort of three priorities. The one that we're really proud of is the declaration made by all the chief executive officers of the utilities to work towards an industry that's carbon free by 2050. We had a declaration on that in 2009, which seems like quite a long time ago, but it was a really courageous and interesting declaration and you'll remember that COP was in Copenhagen that year and it was around about that time that the CEOs made that declaration. Other things we're working on is ensuring that there's a cost efficient energy market or in the eternal energy market for electricity across Europe and developing an efficient approach to electrification of the demand side, what would a view, of course, to mitigating the climate change? They're the things we stand for. At the moment, we're working towards these six presidential priorities and I won't read them all off for you. The one that I did want to highlight for you is the DSOs, my constituency again, and I'll be speaking a little bit about this as we go on, but the DSOs have been now catapulted to the center of the energy transition and one of the priorities that we have in our work is to ensure that their role is recognized and indeed to help them in whatever policy and legislative matters they need at European level so that their role can be recognized and they can step up to it. So I suppose I'm here in the institute and the transition that's going on to the low carbon society is well known to all of you and I just wanted to pick out a few little bits of it to set the scene for the role of the DSO here and the first one I wanted to mention really was the decoupling of economic growth and electricity consumption. So that's the first chart I'm showing you there. The energy intensity is clearly falling right across the EU. So you can continue to use more electricity and not have to pay a price in economic growth terms and I think better than that, I'm showing you the growth terms also. So energy intensity is going down and economic growth is going up. So they've got that scissors effect and that's a virtuous one. The other one below it is just a stats on the decline of the CO2 emissions from the energy sector and you'll see that since 1990 it's already collapsed by about 35%. And I'm told the equivalent figures for Ireland are a collapse from 900 to 400 which is about 50% over the same time period. So Ireland's a little bit faster than Europe as a whole on that. And quite interestingly if you look at where we are today the embedded cost, the embedded quantity of CO2 in the electricity production system is less than half now. So we're already 56% decarbonized on average across Europe which is an amazing story really. And to adapt electric vehicles is a very useful proposition and to decarbonize the transportation sector by including more electrification of transport is a virtuous thing to do. And you'll see some of the numbers there. One kilometer is costing 50 grammes of CO2 which is at least half, at least half of what the modern internal combustion engine can do. On the next one I just wanted to point out was a little bit of an adverse story here is the increase in prices that people are seeing. And I'm showing you price trends from 2008 average basis to households. And one piece is holding steady which is the energy costs. The energy costs are by and large not changing. The network costs are increasing. My constituency are increasing. A lot of that is due to the fact that they're having to interconnect a lot of distributed energy resources and more wires are needed to do that and the costs are clearly rising. That's part of the cost of the transition. It's offset of course by the benefits of the transition. But the one that I'm pointing out here to you is the increase in the taxes and levies which have gone up from 2008 to 2015 on an overall base of about 70%. It's still a small proportion of the overall bill in bill share terms is about 30%. But it is a story that's troublesome and is causing a lot of difficulty for a lot of customers. And customers are voters and in the names of the customer the energy transition has been affected so their support is clearly needed here. And if these charges are rising and rising and rising and they have no in public perception mitigating circumstances then we may give ourselves some trouble. So what we're really saying here is electricity should be one of the chosen zero emissions carriers for energy in the future. We think that the electricity sector at the moment is the last charts I'm showing you. Electricity sector in Europe is accounting for about 20, 25% of the primary energy requirement. The figures I'm showing you here are the global figures by the way. And electrifying heat and transport, heat is about 50% of the requirement. So electricity can play a huge role in electrifying heat and district heat pumps and other devices that will allow electricity to heat water and the space is great, half of the energy is coming from heat and about a quarter of the emissions. On the transport side the domestic transport accounts for about 10 to 15%. So there's a great story here about sector coupling about electricity entering into these areas. So that's really the energy transition and I was just going to play a very short little video that says all of that as well. Have you ever wondered what life would be like without electricity? Electricity does more than you think. It has become essential to everyday life. As the world transitions to cleaner forms of energy, the European power sector is making good progress to meet commitments to deliver carbon-neutral electricity by 2050. There are an increasing number of opportunities to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in key sectors of the economy. Electricity is set to become the key energy carrier for a decarbonised Europe. Replacing your car with an electric car eliminates tailpipe emissions and reduces air and noise pollution, giving us clean cities we all want to live in. To accelerate investment in electromobility, we need better charging infrastructure and stricter emission standards for conventional cars. Electricity provides great potential in buildings too. Choosing electricity-based heating and cooling systems over traditional fossil fuel-based technologies leads to greater efficiency, lower running costs and reduced greenhouse gas emissions. We can break out of the carbon-intensive cycle if the right incentives are in place. Electricity provides solution for a decarbonised European economy. More electricity is a winning strategy for Europe. More electricity means support for ambitious EU decarbonisation objectives and added value for Europe's most vital asset, its citizens. We believe Europe has a bright future, an electric future. So what I want to now talk about is the clean energy package and moving on to how that fits into this transition and how the role of the DSOs is emerging through that package. The first thing to mention, I suppose, is the package is part of the Energy Union, which is one of the key initiatives that was launched by the Yonker Commission in 2014. It's very evocative of the earlier part of the European Union, which was the European coal and steel community, and it sits side-by-side with other initiatives such as the Capital Markets Union and the Digital Single Market and other big flagship proposals. It's a fairly serious attempt by the Commission, in fact, to ensure that what were formerly silos and particularly people used to talk about silos between climate change and energy, that those silos were brought together and the things were considered in a holistic way. And we'll give the Clean Energy Package a scorecard in a few minutes about that. I don't propose to speak very much more about it. I know you had Tygo Bryan here speak about this, and I know you had Ms. Vorsteffer from the Commission here speaking about the Energy Union already. The only thing that I wanted to point out is the Clean Energy Package fits within this, and the Clean Energy Package is the Commission's proposal to deal with the targets that were set by the European Council back in October 2014, which is 40% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from the 1990 level, minimum of 27% renewable energy resources across the Union, 27% of energy efficiency savings, and some other targets which are important to me for this context is the interconnection target, which is a minimum of 15% between member states and the requirement to roll out smart meters to 80% of European customers by 2020. So I suppose the stated aim of the Clean Energy Package is to bring about the reforms in policy and legislation that are needed in order to fulfill those targets and all of that, if you'll recall, was made ahead of the Paris Agreement on climate change. So October 2014 was about a year before the Paris Agreement came into place. And so what is the package? So the package is a 4,000 page compendium of regulations, directives and various studies. It's quite a pack, I took this photograph and that's what it looks like. Where is it at the moment? It has been managed by a joint declaration of the presidents, which means that it's one of the priority packages for legislation, legislative airtime basically in 2017. It's estimated to be worth $250 billion to European citizens. So that's what the parliament, the price tag the parliament has on it. And I just looked at the parliament's website and that's second only to work they're doing on the single market. So it's a fairly serious piece of value for European consumers. It's a proposal by the commission clearly and it's a proposal that's made for co-decision making. So it's made to the council and it's made to the parliament. Where is it on both of those? The package landed in the parliament around November, at the end of November, and it was heard at a plenary session in December and parliament sent the package to the ITRI committee. And the ITRI committee have been very busy on it and they've opened all the files and they've appointed rapid tours and shadow rapid tours for every one of these files. They've even reported out, which they had for some while by the way, but they reported out this week the energy performance of buildings directive. They reported that out already. But the rest of them are on timelines to be reported, which is basically the rapid tour prepared to report and he presents it to the committee and the committee adopt the report to take it back to the parliament. And the timeline for all the others is by October, by the end of summer, they will have all of these at a first reading at the ITRI committee and then it will take it up for a plenary in the parliament itself and that will establish the parliament's position. The council meanwhile have had two considerations of this. They've had a consideration of it at the December meeting and at the February meeting. And all I can tell you about that is what I've read in the public minutes, but the council are saying, giving a lot of political support to this and also to the timeline of getting this adopted in order to be able to get going on realising the benefits of this but honouring the pledges under the Paris Agreement. I would characterise the discussions in the council Morris exploratory at this point. They're talking, changing views. They're not page turning on the documents just yet. And I suppose in that sense, the parliament are a little bit ahead of them. I can't do justice to all of the instruments that are presently undergoing, which are sisters to this clean energy package, which affects the industry. But I do want to mention two that are really, really important when we're looking at the power market. The first is the reform of the emissions trading system. That has been going on for many years now and it looks like it's coming to an end. And the net effect of that is that it's going to put the emissions trading scheme on a solid footing to tighten up the excess supply and make the price more meaningful. And it's really important to mention that but it's outside of all of this and the eco design directive is very important to my members because it affects equipment standards and energy efficiency and equipment standards. So I just want to mention those two. I don't really want to try to give them justice or all the other associated regulations and directives that are out there about land, juice and effort sharing and so on. I'm going to focus entirely on the clean energy package. And what I'm going to try to do now is to run around the map a little bit and explain what's in these and to try to give you a snapshot of the industry's position on them. And I suppose I'll start with the first one on the top left, the risk preparedness directive. And this is a repeal of the security of supply, electricity security of supply directive. And it's creating very good structures for cross-border management of preparedness, prevention and management of crisis in the electricity grids. And it's a good thing and it creates a role for the TSOs in terms of working closer together to be able to prevent blackouts and so on and how to manage them when they come about. Our only comment on that is they sort of forgot about the generation sector and that needs to be included in there and I think that's a very sensible comment and that will be taken on board. A little later when I talked to you about the TSOs I'm going to talk about cybersecurity which is really, really interesting and appears in the risk preparedness directive. So that's that one. The energy performance of buildings directive, I don't want to speak too much about this because I know also you had Mary Donnelly here a few weeks ago and she spoke to that at length. I just wanted to say that there's a couple of really interesting things that we see in that is the smartness indicators. We see processes for energy performance certification which is really useful and requirements for electromobility in buildings, parking spots that have to be wired for electric cars and pre-cabling requirements and we think all that is very, very useful. On the Acer regulation, Acer is the association for cooperation of energy regulators. This was established in 2009 directives. There's a repeal of this and an upgrade of the role of Acer. More role in cross-border activities, more role in monitoring power markets, different roles in terms of elaborating what's called network goals which are legislation for technical rules for cross-border trading and roles to supervise the new proposed regional operation centers and the national electricity market operators. All very sensible. Some controversies in there about the changing of the voting rights of the regulators, but from our perspective, anything that's more regional or more European-wide which is in keeping with the market footprint is welcome. On the raise directive, we see the European target of 27% replacing all national targets for renewable energy. We see that as very positive. We see sustainability criteria for biomass. Also, it's very positive and we see the statements that are in there about support schemes if necessary. And I got to stress that support schemes if necessary would be granted on a more market-orientated approach. And together with the regulation and directive integrates all their renewable energy resources into the market in the mainstream way. We think that that's very positive. Little worried about the requirements for high efficiency combined heat and power if one is burning biomass and there are stipulations in there which may be closing too many doors too quickly about counting biomass burn against national targets and for subsidies. But by and large, I think the raise directive is very positive. One final thing in the raise directive is a requirement for one-stop shop permitting which is really, really useful, permitting for facilities. On the governance, we see that the governance is looking at preparing an integrated energy and climate plan which each member state will have to deliver to set out how it will honour the obligations in the Paris Agreement and the rise in this clean energy package. Streams lines, a lot of reporting requirements that's already there. And we think that's really positive. We're a little worried there's a command and control philosophy in this rather than a market philosophy so we've got to keep the market alive while member states are planning, so to speak. And that may overstate it a little bit but I think you will get my point. There's also some questions about how targets would be fulfilled in the event that a member state is falling short and any member states that are in the room where we have our sympathy of the workload that's coming towards you in the next period. On the energy efficiency directive, again, much of it is very positive from our perspective. We're looking at the changes in the primary energy factor. This is very, very important, counting the renewable energy content in electricity. We think it could go a bit further but we've received that very positively. A little worried about the increase in the target, it's increased from 27 to 30 and that seems to have hit a tipping point in the supply curve on the carbon markets and it has quite an effect by the commission's own impact assessment on the price of carbon in 2030 which will drop from 42 to 27 euro per allowance and that's a little troubling if the carbon market is to be the main driver of investments in the future. I saw, Chairman, I wanted to focus on the two that's really important is the regulation and directive and taking the two as a whole. We see many very positive things in this, much of the market orientation in it that supply and demand should be the only factors which determine prices, that price caps should be removed, that everybody has a balancing responsibility in the market and so on and we think that what they've put in there which is reflecting many of the things that happened in the network codes over the years puts everything on a very solid legal basis for the market. There are no new exemptions contemplated and then there's no undoing of previous exemptions which is good for investor certainty and we support that. There's a requirement in there on emissions performance standards in the capacity markets that's a little troublesome and just last month all the members got together and they issued a press release that they will not have any intention of building coal plants beyond 2020. So the emissions performance standard is a little bit moot from our perspective but from a principal perspective in policy design you clearly have an overlapping instrument here with the capacity markets which will undermine the efficacy of those capacity markets and we would be worried about that. There's a proposal in there to get the TSOs to work together in new regional operation centers. We're not sure regional operation centers are the right configuration for the TSOs to cooperate but nonetheless regional cooperation between TSOs is an important thing and if the markets are gonna be regional then regional transmission operations are very important. On the consumer questions we're very pleased to see things like price comparison tools which are certified and which allow customers to make genuine comparisons between officers offers given by competing suppliers. We're also very glad to see energy poverty left as a national member state competence. It's hard to see how energy poverty matters could be harmonized across Europe and I think that was very wise of the commission. There's some concern about some of the requirements in the package about over-regulation of bills. Consumer bills get lots and lots of paper which is not very useful to them but on the other hand can confuse them and overall the price charts I showed you earlier there isn't a recognition that something has to be done with prices. So I suppose Chairman that's, I suppose the Hitchhiker's Guide to the 4,000 pages of the package before I go to my own subject which is how it affects the TSOs. So who are the TSOs first of all? The TSOs are key facilitators of this energy transition. 90% of the renewable generation is local and being connected at the local distribution level and the TSOs are finding themselves by virtue of citizen action being catapulted into the center of this transition and they are really important being able and enabled to step up to this challenge and meet it because without them the system will not get decarbonized. And the first thing I just want to just tell you who they are, there are somewhere in the region of 2,500 of them, they're all over Europe. They're serving the customers 260 million customers and they have over 10 million kilometers of lines installed but the real one I wanted to talk about was the investment and I've been looking at a lot of the impact assessments and publications and our analysis and my best to take on the investment requirement over the next years, up to 2030 is somewhere in the region of 100 to 150 billion per year in this sector alone. So now we have our members trying to make business cases around 150 billion per year and they need this policy certainty and they need the clear line of sight so they can make those business cases. On the sector that I represent, the DSOs, that's somewhere in the region of 40 to 60 billion per year so my members have got to put business cases up and get those approved and get the data and equity that can match that and that's no easy task and particularly in light of the permitting conversations we had a little bit earlier. So the policy framework has to be investable basically and that's a big chunk of money that needs to be attracted by these companies. And so what I want to talk about now was the transition that they're going through themselves and I suppose the first observation here is the world is getting flatter. We have all the information is ubiquitous and this sector is no different. What was once a linear supply chain and is being increasingly decentralized. I don't know where the limit of decentralization is. There is an open question as to whether the grid can be crowdsourced. Could the grid be operated by individuals? I think not. I think there's always going to be a controlling entity and that controlling entity is the DSOs. There's two changes going on here. There's a technological change. There's a digitization questions right in the middle of the fourth industrial revolution and the data is transforming everything that people do but also the internet of things and the connected devices are all being connected to the DSOs and the DSOs are dealing with this vast amount of data and they get all the questions that arise with data but they all get all the possibilities that data analytics bring to them and they're trying to deal with all of that. Some of them are pioneering really interesting things in cognitive computing and quantum computing and things called augmented reality to operate the grids and one or two of them are pioneering things called software-defined grids so the grids are not just the hardware anymore they're all this data and the information that can be got from this data. All of this means that the DSOs from being a passive last mile business are becoming an active manager of the grid. Connect and forget they used to say about it. They used to go up and connect the house, forget. 40 years later disconnected and put everything in the recycling but now it's connect and manage and this is a very active thing for them to do and it's a whole cultural change and it involves questions about operational and planning. I suppose the other thing to say is all of this is in a virtuous cycle so the digitization question we just spoke about the decentralization question and the electrification question the adoption rates of all of these things are in a virtuous cycle and I've seen some of my members who have given me these famous S curves and the only difference between this S curve and the ones that have been in the past is the speed of adoption. This is happening at such a startling rate and it's at a point now where it either takes off and realizes the benefits or indeed could end up with some stranded costs. So that's I suppose the transition flattening it out, decentralizing it and empowering customers. The lines of roles are changing and we see all sorts of new applications by customers. We see prosumers, these are people who install batteries or windmills on their house and they want to export to the grid and we're seeing local energy communities or renewable energy communities and closed distribution systems and so for all of this I've worked with my members and we've produced a new vision statement for the DSOs and this is the first time I'm going public on this new vision statement and I should say at the very start that one of the, I got a great idea for this vision statement from Audrey Zimmerman who was in this very room talking about the New York reforming energy vision in New York and one of the notions that came out with all of this was the DSOs had previously been pipes, they had been last mile wires and now they're becoming more like platforms where customers connect and they do commerce with another customer and all of it is much more like a platform enabling business and so that's what we're saying here, we're saying from DSOs are changing their whole business model from linear pipes to platforms where people can connect and do business and that's what we're trying to get into the culture of the companies and this involves transformation of the business models so this is questions about tariffing, this is questions about services, their rendering is the fee for services, for connecting people, it's the fee for using the systems and it's operating in a more flexible way. We're talking about working more in partnership with the regulators, regulatory models promoted low risk business operations in the past but here we have this major transformation and technology and we have to sort of pioneer things a little bit and work in partnership with the regulators, not in an adverse way as we have done in the past but now to transform this to a whole new level. We have to adopt a new planning techniques and upgrade the systems in order to be able to deal with all of the new applications that are out there which is to do with planning and operations and then finally to take on all these new roles and to make sure that we're continuing to be the neutral market facilitators because after all it is the common carriage public service business. So that is who the DSOs are, that's their new vision, I hope you like it and with that vision and with the clean energy package and now ready to talk about how the policy how the policy framework fits with what's required and I suppose there's two ways, there's two of those instruments that really affect the DSOs, the regulation and the directive and I won't go through all of these points but there's a few that are really interesting. The first one is about tariffs. Tariffs is really important, it's the way that DSOs get their money but it's also the vehicle by which the network sends signals out to the outside world and in the proposal, the commission have talked about harmonizing these tariffs between transmission and distribution and across distribution and we think that's too much of an ask, tariffs suit local circumstances better and the tariffs that would apply in the circumstances of the Greek islands would be totally different that might apply in the northern parts of Europe. So tariff harmonization per se is in our view not wise but we do think that tariffs have to conform to some harmonized principles if you like and we have proposed to the commission principles that all tariffs over time will conform to. The other one I wanted to mention was innovation which is the second one here. Innovation I've spoken to a little bit before, ways by which DSOs who have previously been culturally low risk businesses will start to innovate and start to do things in a whole new way and they will only do that if the regulatory model changes. I did a survey of the members and I got an answer from them that nine of the regulatory models across Europe have specific innovation components in them and that needs to go from nine to 28. On the other side here, I would like to just mention a few. Storage, storage is really interesting. Lots of customers are putting up new storage devices. Lots of customers are adopting electric cars. Customers want to trade out of the storage. The DSOs want to use the storage to operate their system more flexibly and the proposal at the moment says that DSOs can't own the storage. It has to be a market deployment and we welcome the market deployments but there are occasions when the DSO needs to deploy the storage devices itself and to satisfy the needs in the local needs in the network. So sometimes market forces in other words are not operating at the local level and the proposals in the package are too prescriptive in that regard. On local energy communities, we're delighted to see the commission endorsing all the new roles for customers and the way that they can engage with the transition, the way they can engage with the market. We just have to be careful that that's all done on a level playing field and I know there's a lot of questions that arise about the various adoption rates that some customers are adopting things and others aren't and then there are costs in the network that need to be borne by everybody. On data management is a really interesting area. Data is the new oil. Everybody wants to control the data and control the customer's data. There are clearly data privacy issues, cybersecurity issues and the DSO is in at the moment the custodian of these data and to provide these data to any market participant in a way that facilitates the operation of the market and to do that in a neutral way. The commission have proposed a common data format across Europe again. It's not going to be possible to do that because there are far too many different circumstances that obtain in each of the member states and changing IT systems to make a common format is a big problem. On cybersecurity it's an interesting area. The grids are becoming more vulnerable to cyber attack. The DSOs keep their operation system separate from the market systems and the cyber attacks that way is the first line of defense is the air gap between the two of those. One of our members in Ukraine in fact was attacked and the grid was sat down for a number of days. So this is an area that's very, very important and the commission have made some proposals in this and we're working with them to make sure that the DSOs are able to adopt the highest standards of cybersecurity. I should mention as an aside, I work with NATO on what they call the baseline requirements for resilience of cyber in warfare terms. In fact, they see the cyber systems as a key attack vector and they're doing everything with NATO and the EU to make sure that the systems are secure and stable. The last thing I want to talk about is flexibility. It's a really interesting area for the DSOs there. One time they always build wires when they had problems to build more wires and when they had problems to build even more wires. And nowadays customers are able to offer the same kinds of services to the DSOs as if wires were in place. That's an interesting challenge in itself because will the customer always be there to provide the service when the DSO needs it? It's the first question and the second question is how does the DSO's business model accommodate the new contracting processes that are there? And we're working with other DSO associations in preparing the way that DSOs can contract for that in a flexible way and a uniform way across Europe. And indeed we're working with the CE or on that a consultation is live closing I think next week. Thank you. So that's the views. I want to finish up on one more thing that's in the clean energy package which is really important and is changing the institutional framework. That's why I'm going to deal with it slightly separately. I don't ask you to read all of this but the existing institutional framework that governs the internal energy market comprises of the commission themselves. NSOE which is the institution that fosters cooperation amongst the 42 DSOs. So they're shown there on the bottom left and the Acer which is the institution fosters the cooperation with regulators. And where the DSOs are not in the picture yet. And the proposal is that there will be a DSO entity established that would promote institutional cooperation between the DSOs. So right now they cooperate on an industry basis but this is an official vehicle for them to cooperate. And they will cooperate on being a friend of the commission in terms of offering technical advice, producing harmonized rules and network codes and so forth on some of the topics we've just talked about and playing a role in interacting with all of the other institutions here. So this is a classic question of institutional design. I'm showing the green box going in with the others. Of course there's no space for them at the moment. They have to get in there. They have to be established and they have to become functional with all these different interfaces. So that's a really important question. The DSO companies are really pleased with this proposal. It recognizes their new role. They have now this institutional official cooperation vehicle in the EU. And the question is always what is the scope of that organization? What would it do? And who is eligible to participate in it? On the scope questions, the worry is that your institution may end up lobbying or being a lobby rather than a cooperative, rather than a cooperative technical forum. It can't be a symposium on mathematics. It's got to include some practical application of DSO problems and bring them together with all the DSOs. So that's the first thing. The second thing is the eligibility requirements. The commission have outlined their proposals on eligibility which in effect mean that only 10% of the DSOs by number can participate, and we think that's far too few. So 10 out of the 2,500 will be eligible to participate. And it is our hope that we can persuade the commission to widen the eligibility criteria so more DSOs can participate and they have a contribution to make in that. So here we have, I suppose, the completion of the institutional framework that would underline the internal energy market. And one of the things, and this is the last thing I said, Chairman, one of the things that's coming out really strongly in all of this is the need for DSOs and DSOs to cooperate. There are sisters who are operating the same networks. Different voltage levels, different territories, but they're operating together in the interest of the customers and together operating in a way that affects the transition. And institutional cooperation between the two of them, which is currently on a voluntary basis, is paramount. And it's our hope to take a proactive role in establishing this entity so that it can be in place in good time for the coming into effect of this legislation. And we're already doing many of the things with the commission, with the NSOE, that put us in the position of leading the establishment of this organization. And that's what we hope to do. And our members support it wholeheartedly. So look, I hope I haven't confused it too much by covering the whole package. And thank you very much for your attention and coming out this afternoon. And thank you very much, Chairman.