 Hello and welcome to Exchange for Media. The second wave of COVID-19 which appears to weigh now was clearly a much harsher one. This adversity taught us to stand with each other and for each other. We all together have we've many stories of strength and resilience. In the weeks to come, we at Exchange for Media in series of interviews with senior industry leaders will make an attempt to understand the impact of this deadly wave on our lives and livelihoods. We will hear the stories of resilience. And to begin the series, I could not have had anyone better than Mr. Shashi Sinha, who's CEO IPG Media Brands. The CEO in Mr. Sinha's case stands for both the Chief Executive and the Chief Empathy Officer. Mr. Sinha, thank you so much for finding time to speak to us. Thank you for the warm words. Thank you very much. Sir, 2020 was bad but then 2021 was even worse. The second wave was more damaging in terms of personal loss and the overall sentiment. How much did it impact the ad industry considering that there was a general sense of despair for over two months? Actually, as you called out and thank you for the long words, but actually the last 45 days to 60 days, we will focus more on our people than the business I've come to respond into your question. Because this is the time, as you correctly said, it's affected people and also everywhere. So in our case also, we have had unfortunate situations where we have lost three employees and we have lost about 20 plus family members. So it's a large thing. So ensuring that people are taken care of, so that's been the focus. But to answer your specific question, Jan 5th March was all right. April, when the pandemic started, because IPL was playing and there's big investment of enterprises on IPL. So April was also all right, but May has been a collapse. So May, though last year May also was very bad, but this time May has just fallen off. If you look moving average from Jan 5th March, April May has just fallen off the cliff and this across categories, combination of what happened in the market, and I think June has started off also hopefully it will improve with the lockdown restrictions. But I think May has really been the biggest. So I heard that there was a specific COVID team that was created in IPG. If you can tell us more about the initiatives that you as an agency took, I'm just to keep the trust and work with the leads alive. So we are lucky that in the media related business, we know all the media houses and the situation was that because work from home people, we have a large backup team which does a lot of work for us as well. So those fellows were all over the country, they were the workmen not people, plus our own teams of about 1100 people. So they were all over people in small town India and this time the pandemic has hit small town India and people are having problems with hospitalization, getting beds, oxes, all of it. So I realized that it's not enough because people are reaching out to HR, every organization has a large HR team and good quality HR teams, but that's not enough. You need senior management intervention. So we created this COVID team which was in every city, senior managers, and across one matter where they were computational offline or whatever. We nominated senior people who could actually reach out to their media partners, media contacts, and help in hospitalization with the resources. And I'm happy to say that, you know, I mean, there was a lot of tragedy, like I said, but if I say people have gone into the family members. But having said that, these teams reached out, they tried to ensure hospitalization, you know, it's come to me, I would get the report, I'd get the report in the morning, I'd get the report in the evening. And where they could not help, we would step in some of our leaders. So I made it sure for all our leaders to be accountable and responsible. That's what happened. IPG also helped, they gave us some money because this is the time when, you know, insurance is not enough, people are not giving bills, everything was so expensive. So IPG also, we resorted to IPG, they created a fund for us, a really fun way to be given without being asked. So I think all in all, it's just one small thing which we did, which hopefully would have shown some support for our people. So coming back to the business, you know, there's been a sense of despair and uncertainty. Did it prompt many brands to suspend pitches, you know, simply or simply extended their contracts with the incumbent agencies? But then there is a challenge to add new business, right? So how did you tackle that? So I think a lot of pitches have been paused. I don't know whether they will reopen or they will go into, as you said, that they will extend contracts. I suspect a lot of what you said will happen there. But you know, the great thing is for us as, you know, being a global company and IPG, that really is a very warm organization. So they have turned it on and said to me, our global leader, that he has said to me, he said, I understand the problem is only in the expressiveness, other markets are not as badly affected. So they said, you know, focus is on taking care of people and ensuring people will come out of it. I mean, business is important because, but, you know, it's not critical in the amount of life and death just now. And you know, what if I may add, what's going to happen? So while the cases have come down all over, at one point in time, we had 200 plus people and their families affected, it's come down to about 30, 40. But I worry about mental health issues. So, you know, I worry that all kinds of things are there. So, you know, we have tried to create a fence around people by ensuring all kinds of things we have done. So I think to answer your question, yes, this is a poor situation just now. But I think priorities in life are more important than business. So, you know, just 45 days to 60 days. So obviously, we'll have to get back to business, we'll have to get back to pitches and some big pitches, global pitches are happening, it's not that they're not happening, you know. But my sense is the priorities are different, it's one of them. I would be too worried about what's happening, you know, pausing on pitches and that will be losing the market. You don't worry me. So, but when I looked at the global results, you have still done fairly well, you know, in last quarter, your revenue increased by 2.8%. And your global CEO said that the company's position to deliver fully organic growth of 5% to 6%. Now, what is India's role in this? And these numbers, I think, were predicted before the second wave. So, you know, how much is it affected now? So, so IPG is a very strong America-centric company. America, as you see, the American economy has actually gone back. And therefore, they're doing an 3% to 5% growth, which are organic growths are very good. So, IPG is really simply well. India has always been a high growth market for IPG. There are a few markets in the world where IPG is number two, almost all the companies. I'm not saying only because you're just talking about IPG, not only media brands, your results, which are talking about IPG. So, between Macan, Lintas, Chibi and us, it's a strong network in the country. It's a number two network, you know. So, so, but interestingly, I mean, not only directly using the media brands here, my boss, but also have a chat with the IPG CEO about 20 days back, middle of May, he spoke to me. I'm sure he spoke to other people, but he spoke to me and it was a 45-minute call and 30 minutes was in details and COVID and what we are doing. So, I think they also come from a mindset that, you know, India is strong for them. This is the time to reach out to India. This is the time India needs help and support, both not only physically, psychologically. So, I think the thing is very premature to talk about numbers and how we will support IPG. But I'm reasonably sure that India will bounce back. The waves will come as vaccination increases. I mean, we have vaccinated all our staff. We have finished vaccination in Bombay, Delhi and in Bangalore, Bombay, the last phase is tomorrow. So, I think hopefully when people get vaccinated, you know, the country opens up in the next few months. It will stabilize India's high-growth market, not only as a market, but also for IPG. So, it will be back on track. But at this point in time, our mind is not on track. So, you also mentioned IPL when you were answering the first question. So, you know, it is one of the big ticket events for most brands and it was called off midway. How much and in what ways did it affect the overall industry business? So, it did because IPL is a very cool start for the industry as well as for us. We are very big. We have lots of plans for IPL. You know, we generally, my team, we believe in the power of IPL in cricket. So, it did hurt us. I mean, May was a double whammy because not only did IPL go off for the right reasons, if not we knew. But also, fact that all brands stopped advertising, you know, it did affect. But the good news is IPL is coming back in September. It's coming back in festive. So, the timing is right if it happens, by the way, it's planned. So, I think like last year, last quarter was a jumpstart because of IPL. So, I suspect that will happen this time also. It will give us good feeling. A lot of brands, I don't know about the whole world, but I can speak for myself. A lot of our clients have promised support. They say, you know, they will come back. In fact, some are promising non-support because it's festive. So, IPL as you know, sort out before started. So, hopefully I think IPL will have to drive the momentum and we have the numbers in terms of viewership as it happened last time. So, Dubai was closer games, you know, the many reasons why I think IPL will do well. So, all in all, hoping and praying that the cases abate, IPL happens and if IPL happens, then it will be a very good fill up for the festive season. Sir, which sectors do you think suffered the most in the second wave? Actually, you know, almost everything was hit by from say 20th April to now because e-commerce, which last time e-commerce did well for us. We have any e-commerce clients on the big ones. e-commerce was affected because the government closed down e-commerce in the state commerce. Obviously, the physical distribution companies also selected. So, they had got a distribution act better this time, but yet they were affected, you know, because like you said, the intensity of the wave was so much that when people were being seen, you know, so last time they were battling like I remember Amul, the client which I pressed very heavily last year. So, they were battling distribution issues last year and they did a fabulous job of overcoming them. This year, there was so much of negative around with people falling dead and all that. So, I think consumption came down, but I'm sure the CPG categories will bounce back faster. The real goods and all auto and all mixed fuel, one view is personal mobility and all that will happen. But I also worry that consumer sentiment this time is going to be affected badly because see, last time people are not seen at close this time. It's very sad thing to say, but people are seen at close. No one I know will not see casualties in the extended families. I mean, all of us have gone through that. So, that has left us, I think finally, consumption is all about psychology. So, I hope and pray I'm wrong, but I think this time we're slightly more muted and slightly more longer, the effect will be longer. So, we'll be careful. So, I think a lot of high ticket consumption categories will take time to come back. You know, who would want to go on a holiday? Who would want to buy an expensive pop and pop at this point in time? We'll be careful. So, this will also impact the festive season. This will also in long run impact the festive season? It will in certain categories. So, you know, I personally feel, I mean, last time everyone talked about revenge purchase and event shopping and all that, I think that this time that will be people will be careful because jobs have gone, you know, the uncertainty, you don't know how long this will last. So, you know, India doesn't have social security. It's a very large organize sector. So, without social security, it will affect people. So, I'd be careful. I wouldn't say I'd be tense, but I'd be careful. I'd be worried, not worried, but I'd be careful. So, besides gaming and edutic, which are some of the new categories that have emerged as prominent advertisers in last one year in the post COVID era? So, if you go and look at IPL as a surrogate for this, you know, you'll find entertainment as a very big entertainment has already taken off the bus. Consumption of entertainment has gone up dramatically in any form. You'll find that. Gaming, definitely. India is in the tip of the iceberg of being a big opportunity in gaming. And we've seen with our own clients, I mean, some of the gaming clients we've worked with were very unhappy when IPL went off. So, it's going to be a distressed situation. Edutic, yes. Edutic is there. It's a long haul game and they were sustained. So, I think as consumption comes back, finally, you can't take it away from our CPGs, you know. Finally, CPGs contribute to almost 30-40%. So, forget the big ticket things like IPL and stuff like that, which, you know, you see because the male audience is premium property. So, you see a particular kind of profile of client advertising. But the heart of the advertising business is consumer arts, FNGs. And as consumption comes back, you know, this time the problem is very badly affected. No one was affected. And rule is where almost 30-40% of FNGs comes. But whenever the revival happens, the Indians are very positive. I think Indians are very positive by nature. So, revival may take time, this time whenever it happens, finally, the backbone of our industry is the FNGs, the CPGs, group companies and stuff like that. Sir, as someone who has spent, you know, more than three decades in this industry, what kind of consumer behavior changes you have seen in last one and a half years? So, I really do. So, it's obviously to say that, you know, it's become a lot more digital consumption, which is people, the barriers around digital revenue, especially business shopping and e-commerce. So, digital consumption, any cases of the rise before, I mean, for every revenue, but I think there was a huge barrier to more people's minds on shopping and commerce and that's gone through. And I think that would be the big revolution which will happen. I also feel, this is what I alluded to earlier, you know, there was a lot of conspicuous consumption. That for the next two years will be moderated. You know, it will not be a good thing to be seen as spending on fancy shops. So, you know, fancy holidays and this and that. So, there will be a certain amount of moderation society will ensure which will happen. And Indians are always being very value conscious. So, I think that's why we'll go away. In fact, there's become more value conscious. They're always even directly or they want a rationalization for value. So, even if they're not directly talking of value, they will give a logic or some story to build around value. That's an evergreen, that never goes away. But I do think the combination of being careful, not doing conspicuous consumption and digital e-commerce is a very deadly intersection point. So, what will allow us from the privacy of the homes, you know, you can make purchases without others looking at you, evaluating choices and not being seen as flashy. All that can happen. So, I think that that's going to be a great surprise. It's not only about digital alone that you're getting on to digital commerce. It's not that alone. This is whether a digital platform is how you position ourselves. If you're mindful, choiceful, if you're, I also alluded to, you know, which I'm seeing for ourselves and I'm sure it happens with the largest variety of stress, mental stress. There's going to be a fair degree of trauma. And for mental trauma, a final effect of consumers. So, if you give them some kind of relief, not escapism, escapism is a negative sign, but if you give them some relief in consumer behavior. So, if you make them mindful choices, choices which are empathic, choices where you see some kind of, you know, emotion and most connect. So, any category, I mean, you know, today let's take the case of beverages or cell phones, you know. So, in my limited perception, cell phones, a lot of them are sold on style, you know, and sold on image. That may change. So, you will still sell it as value, of course, always, I don't know the value of first thing, but you know, it's been in touch with your loved ones. So, the whole story changes in that sense, you know, that moment of truth. So, the triggers, so the need will remain, the triggers will change. So, the triggers no longer, you know, I mean, at least sensible companies will look at triggers which are different. It gives you relief, it's no longer a stress for you. It's no longer, I mean, the whole status style thing will go through a bit of a moderation. Sir, can was cancelled last year. This year we have it have its first digital version. So, how actively do you see agencies participating in the upcoming event? Now, again, in the backdrop of, you know, what has happened in India in the last few months, and this requires extra budget. More than the budget is also, this is the larger point which I made of what's happening around us, you know, for consumers to show anything which is, I mean, I know it's online, but it's gone, it's, you know, it's there, France. So, it's a bit, in my scheme of things, it's conspicuous, it is in a manner of speaking, you know, it's a strong point to make. But then there's also some hope, no, because yeah, there's learning, there's learning which happens, you know, and there's a lot of stuff which happens with the focus on the learning part, I mean, the awards are all about celebration and joy, but also it can be construed as because, you know, these awards, they're also not participated for the sake of awards, it's not just awards for the global phenomenon, it's not only in that phenomenon. So, yes, you're right, if you look at it as joy and hope and celebration, but the work is not real, a lot of work is created by saying, you know, so this looks very, in my mind, looks very frequent. I mean, one of the reasons why at club and the other why delayed BoAFest, you could have thought about this doing an online thing, but it will be delayed if we said, listen, this is not the right time because the freedom of awards particularly, a lot of work and I'm saying, no one for saying things directly, and I'm saying a lot of work which comes is great at work. So, one is the physical problem of the work being created, you know, there's a time when people have so many challenges, that's one of the larger issues I mean, you're celebrating work of that kind, at a time when whatever the action that we give when the country's going through hell, I personally, I mean, I don't think I can't, but it's not our mind for me, it's not, you know, I saw a story the other day saying, no Indian shortness is a big deal, how does it matter? Then what's the story? So, now that we are anticipating the third wave also, how are you preparing your agency and your clients? So, like I said, you know, from a personal point of view, I mean, from a health point of view, that's more important. I think everyone understood the power of precautions, so vaccination is the first precaution we are doing. Like I said, you know, we're encouraging our people to vaccinate, you know, you won't be surprised the amount of physicality on vaccination in this country. I mean, it's in over India so much, I don't know what will be happening. In fact, before this meeting, I was just going to call with Macha Head and said, you know, the last round of vaccination is tomorrow. So, he said, give me a report of how many people have brought on and how many have refused and at least I can personally make a piece to that to come out tomorrow, you know. So, I think physical safety is very important as vaccination happens. Even the educated lot, I mean, they, we are surprised. You're surprised, you know, I mean, they don't say it directly, but you'll be surprised at the... Maybe they are waiting for, you know, a lot of people I know are waiting for Pfizer and... Whatever, so whatever the reasons, you know, I mean, these are justifications that finally, you know, as a point to prove why I held back my vaccination because I go to the company and get it back. So, I was ready for the second round, but I said, no, I'll wait. I want to show, tell everyone that, you know, I'm there myself. So, I think that is the first important thing in the precautions. You don't know when it will happen, not happen. There's also a lot of misinformation so people don't know what the real story is. Beyond the point, you cannot prepare from a business point of view. Business is, you know, you have to take it as it comes. So, if you come out of this lockdown, well, you know, I mean, it's just one month, maybe it's just gone by. If June things start, June is just two weeks, but it'll start coming back on June. Then I think we'll know how to handle it. You know, we've done a reasonable job. But like I said, I worry not about the third phase, I worry about a larger sentiment. What the second phase is done? I mean, I am not getting to the controversy of what the real number of deaths is. But definitely this time, all of us know people, close people, friends, family, colleagues who have, you know, been affected. And that will have a lasting impression that that will take some time to go away. So third wave or not, that is something, and you cannot, like I said, I'm very concerned about mental issues, very bothersome. So mental issues, not only of our employees, also consumers and other people in a particular state of mind, they'll be careful. So I think that's the larger thing to play for what the government does and it's not about stimulus packages alone and all that. So if you find a larger play that they will just be ignored. Sir, if you had to sum up your resilience story of in last two years, you know, what was it that kept you going? How did you survive this one and a half years of? I think many people have done it. So I don't think that inspires youngsters. But I think, I don't know if this is going to inspire for me. But I think we're a close bonded team. You see, I think the advantage, and this is the time, it's time like this, we realize that we have a lot of people who have worked with the company long. I think chances are still a peculiar thing because while advertising is young people's business, but a lot of our seniors, I would say, made it to senior management with the company for more than 10 years. Some of us have been more than 30 years in the same company. So the leadership team is very well bonded. I mean, we work with each other. So, we're not second guessing each other. People know what to expect. They know each other's behavior pattern. Our clients know us. Fortunately, our client relationship is also very long. So clients know that, I think people have been very, so I think the fact that we have rallied around each other. I mean, my favorite story, if I may, there's your permission to tell you the story, a band called Arun Sharma. So, you know, there were separate silos, our district company attracted to the separate and initial separate. I told Arun, Arun is in the way, Delhi head for the district, I said, Arun, you are responsible for whatever, after 5 billion, because of pride. And there's a young girl and in fact, we never met because of a separate office, we never met her. I think father-in-law needed oxygen desperately. She was desperate. So he showed up to us and because I told Arun, you are responsible for this. And he felt empowered and he felt happy. He ran around, he talked to some media friends, 20 kilometers away. This is in the middle of May, 10th May also when we were speaking. He got into his car, went to some place and got oxygen cylinders. To me, that is a small story and many people have done it. But it shows that someone is not met, he's not spoken to, not his team, he has no thing. He's going to do it for them. So I think that shows that people have worked. They said, you know, the fact that Arun has been with us for many years, that we should be together. So I think that helped that we are closely bonded. We know each other. We may not be juddy buddies at the same, but we definitely work with each other tightly. So, you know, so that really helped that we could relate to each other. This story completely justifies the intro that I gave that you wrote. No, thank you for the very warm words. I'm very embarrassed. I mean, this is generally what is said about you in the industry. People look up to you for, you know, that you've always been very, the human side of you, you know, which I don't know how many CEOs have. Thank you so much, Ashish sir. And this was really inspiring and very warm conversation. And I hope people are able to tackle their mental health issues better. And we don't really have to have another interview around the third wave. Next interview should be about, you know, how we have overcome this. So thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot.