 Good evening and thank you for tuning in for tonight's city council forum co-hosted by the Times Argus and Orca Media. I'm Stephen Pappas from the Times Argus and I will be serving as moderator this evening. We're grateful for this opportunity to be part of the democratic process. Democracy only works when we can make informed decisions about the people we want to elect public office and we're pleased to be able to spend the next 90 minutes with the candidates on the ballot for Montpelier City Council. There are two candidates running on opposed incumbents Lauren Heil and Palin Cohn. While they're not here this evening they've been invited by Orca Media to make recorded statements about themselves that will accompany the rebroadcast of this forum. During tonight's forum we'll be hearing from four candidates, Sal Alfano in Merrick Moden are seeking the council seat to represent district two. Thomas Abdelnor, did I get it? Yes that was just right. Yes and Tim Haney are seeking the district three seat. In a moment you're gonna hear from the candidates but first we have some housekeeping. This is a forum and not a debate. The candidates will not be addressing one another directly. They are here to explain what differentiates them from their fellow contenders and to outline their thoughts on the issues of the day in Montpelier. To be clear the questions posed tonight are mine and the candidates have not seen them in advance. Each candidate will get two minutes to introduce themselves. Following those opening remarks I will pose a series of questions. The candidates will get two minutes to respond each. I'll rotate through the order of the responders so that each candidate gets several opportunities to speak first and during the answers I will signal with 15 seconds to go. With a few minutes left in the forum I will let the candidates make closing remarks and we're expecting a civil and respectful dialogue. I would remind viewers that this is being live-streamed but the forum will be available at orchimedia.net and will be rebroadcast between now and Tau Meeting Day which is March 7th. For the sake of clarity you will be introduced in alphabetical order by the last name not by district. So with that Thomas you're first. Thank you so much Stephen. Feel free to call me Tom. Okay. My name as I said is Tom Adlenor. I'm running to represent the folks in district three. I am running to try to be the progressive candidate in this race. I've spent my entire professional career trying to stick up for folks without a voice in politics and make sure that working families are heard when it comes to the decision making that's done in government. I am originally from the northeast kingdom but I've been proud to live in Montpelier for the past six years and I am the legislative coordinator for the Vermont State Employees Association where I work at the state house most days during the legislative session fighting to ensure that working people across the state and hundreds of folks here in Montpelier are safe on the job, are having their rights respected, are safe in their ability to retire with dignity and their ability to make sure that they have good benefits and good healthcare. I've been fortunate to work in politics for a couple of years since law school. I worked for Senator Cory Booker in New Jersey and on President Obama's reelection campaign. My first job in politics was working in Senator Sanders office. It was then congressman Sanders office so I guess I'm dating myself a little bit but those are the sort of values that I hope to represent on the council. I want to be a direct line for folks to make sure that their voice is heard and that the decisions that are being made on the council are being done with the interests of folks involved in our community being represented on the council. I want to be folks conduit to make sure they're being represented well. Great. Thank you, Tom. Thanks, Steve. Next we are going here from Sal Alfano. Thanks. I'm Sal Alfano. I'm running for the one-year seat in district two. I came to Mont in 1969 to go to college, ended up falling in love with the place and with my wife where I met in college. We moved to East Calus raised a couple of kids there. My background is sort of a combination of blue color, white color. I ran a construction company for almost 20 years, worked my way through college as a carpenter and then opened my own business, started writing articles for new home builders and remodelers focused on both the technical aspects of construction and running the business of a construction company and that actually led to a 30-year career in trade media editing and writing for magazines directed at the national home building and remodeling professional population. So I really got interested in in running partly because of the emphasis on on housing. I mean I've really had a 50-year association with housing both directly and indirectly and it's a very complex undertaking and I think the conversation is often simplistic. People use the word affordable without really understanding everything that that entails. So I'm really running to use my background and my experience to the benefit of the community I hope in the kind of decisions that the council will need to make in the next year which which I think are going to affect this community for a long time to come. Great. Thank you very much. Tim Heaney. Tim Heaney also running for a district three-seat on the city council. I grew up in Montpelier and just down the street with my nine brothers and sisters and really had a great it was just a great place to grow up but went all the way to UVM to college and then came back and joined my dad in the brokerage firm and I've been selling real estate and working on real estate activities since 1981. Also we were involved in shepherding and creating several neighborhoods in Montpelier including some of the most recent ones that have been created in the last decades. I've had some experience in creating housing and building neighborhoods and really enjoyed that part of what I've done. I think the conversations in the community at this time around housing and infrastructure and homelessness and there's just so many key conversations happening right now I just feel like it's a great time and I can contribute to those and hopefully add something to do some good solutions. That's why I'm running. Great. Thanks. Thank you. I'm Merrick Moden. Alrighty my name is Merrick Moden. I'm running for district two. I've grown up right here in Montpelier and I live over on Sibley Avenue. I've always been drawn to civic service and finding ways to solve problems. It's important for me to reassure anyone who may be concerned about my age that as a member of the Montpelier school board and heading into my fourth year now as a member of Montpelier's complete streets committee I have experience in representing our community and as a young adult I would bring a valuable perspective to city council that has been significantly underrepresented. People under 34 in Montpelier account for roughly 40 percent of our overall community and those from 15 to 34 make up approximately 23 percent from a disparity between what people make and what they can afford and the difficulties of staying in and starting out in Montpelier I think a quarter of their city should be able to look to their council and feel that they are being represented by those facing the same challenges that they are. I think we need single family and start our homes. I think a new teacher should be able to live in Montpelier and right now they can't they can't start out here and I think Elkscubland is promising and we should definitely take advantage of it but we also need to consider other options like how can we increase the density of our city without purely increasing urban sprawl. I think we should take another look at unused parking lots and unoccupied downtown buildings and see if we can build housing through those routes and if we build recreational facilities on Elkscubland I think we also need to ensure equitable transportation access to those facilities. I'd also like to make clear that yes I'm in the college application process and there are valid questions concerning a long-term city councillor so let me say now if elected I'm committed completely to finishing out this term and it would also inform my choices at where to attend college and it would be my intention to serve beyond this one-year term. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well we're off to the races thank you. We're going to jump right into the conversation now. Sal the first question is going to go to you for starters. What does Montpelier need to do when it comes to economic development and expanding and improving the property tax base? Yeah very good question. Well I think the housing issue that everyone seems to be experiencing now is really a demand in supply thing so I think we obviously need to increase the supply of housing both owned housing and rental housing but I think we need to do it in a new way. We need to consider rezoning for multi-family also for single-family attached housing. Townhouse kind of structures or duplexes or triplexes instead of the sort of classic single family with a lot. I think there's quite a bit we can do on the regulatory side reducing the obstacles to development streamlining the permitting maybe loosening up some of the lot size requirements setback requirements parking space requirements that sort of thing and I agree with with Merrick on using some of the empty spaces downtown for infill and looking at some of the office buildings and commercial spaces that are that are empty and are likely to stay empty at least as commercial spaces and possibly can be reused as housing. Okay thank you. Tim. Economic development is a topic that's one that's been tough for Montpelier over the years. People also like the community the way it is so at some level if I haven't wanted a lot of change housing is a key component to economic development because people if they're coming to work for a company or have a new endeavor here certainly need a place to live. We have some great opportunities before us as a community I mean I think the key to good economic development is as a community having flexibility to look at options as they come and give them a fair shake and a good look and not immediately react negatively. I think our zoning code is really rigorous and in some ways the process we have has earned us a reputation as being a tough place to do business so we've lost some opportunities over time but there still are some really great ones and when I worked with Montpelier Development Corp some areas we looked into like just kind of master planning downtown where things could happen there's really some cool opportunities here so I think master planning is what I'm going to close this answer with is I think as a community we really need to go back to our master plan it has not been updated in a long time it should have been updated before the zoning was redone in 2018 and it wasn't so I think we need to put some energy into master planning opening our eyes to our options and if they appear entertain them see if it works great thank you Merrick what do you think I mean it's a great question just the other day in a class on the climate crisis one of my teachers told the class how the Montpelier he moved to in the 90s is in many ways very much the same as it is today and I mean I I can't speak to what Montpelier was like in the 80s and 90s as I wasn't alive back then but I can say that um I think we're at a point where we have to ask ourselves is should Montpelier continue down the path that it's been going down um and I'm not criticizing any of our city's leaders but I think that question is very key and I think the question of how we grow our economic development how we grow our tax base it really all comes back down to housing and the fact that right now Montpelier young people even middle-aged people many people most people shall I say without who aren't um part of a certain income bracket they can't move to Montpelier because there's no housing here and as a result we're not seeing our tax base growing so I think it all comes back down to housing and in order to improve our tax base in order to build more housing I think it's we're going to require a a multifaceted approach the Elks Club being one facet the other facet as I mentioned earlier we're looking at unused spaces downtown upstairs buildings perhaps that building owners might be able to rent out and also Tim made a great point about revising our master plan I mean it's it's pretty old at this point and I think if we're going to be considering economic development we need to go back to the drawing board and with regard to our master plan great thank you Tom so it seems to you that this question does touch both on economic development and housing and I'll speak briefly to both I think with regard to economic development we unfortunately can't afford in this hyper competitive environment where folks are are desperately vying for new opportunities for their communities we really can't afford I don't think to wait for opportunities to present themselves I think we're really going to have to take a more active and more innovative approach and the development corporation is really in a period of transition now and I think there is an importance to make sure there is an organization like that actively trying to recruit folks to town so you know here's an example I suppose there's been discussion about Vermont law moving its campus right we should be actively trying to generate opportunities like that here and pitching Montpelier as a place that is a good fit for places for organizations like that I think too we've we've got to think of outside the box a little bit I don't know that the traditional approach is always going to work here's an example we've had success with a variety of sort of pop-up events in town where we've temporarily closed down a couple of streets right I think that is an interesting model to pursue to get a buzz about the downtown area support our local businesses and make sure that people are familiar with what's out there I think if folks are coming in from out of town to enjoy an event like that they are more likely to come back and get used to heading to heading downtown and just a very quick piece I'd say on economic development as well I think we need to support our refugee community that's here and we need to actively do what we can to try to attract folks in because I think your question really hit upon it in a key way there's one of the secrets that's going to be important in making sure that our municipal taxes don't get out of control is going to be really growing that tax base and that does touch on housing you know I'm a young vermonter I wanted to move back to my home state and when I came back to Montpelier although I'd love to be a homeowner for now I'm a renter I rent like a lot of folks do in town because frankly the real estate prices in this town are out of control in some regards and they're out of reach for too many folks young folks who would want to stay here build a family here build a community here and so I think it's essential that we're responding to that need and and we're an attractive place for people to come and live and I'm sure we'll be speaking about housing more in depth but I really do think that unless we're supporting young folks and making this a viable place for folks to live we'll always be chasing economic development goals without the the true support to build them so I think that's a key component of any question about economic development great thank you this means 15 seconds out you missed it oh I'll make sure to watch for that by a lot I'll watch for the pen um great answers by the way thank you um so Tim this question goes starts with you um what should Montpelier be doing to bet to what should Montpelier be doing better when it comes to supporting its most vulnerable community it's a tough question we're all grappling with it's a lot of us have tried in different ways I guess I'm at the point with this there's no silver bullet simple solution I think we need to start making concrete steps toward progress create public bathrooms and not just for homeless people for our community I think for hospitality anyone that comes to town if they're no public bathrooms that's just not okay but but to support our folks in our community that are on house too I think that's important um shelters creating like now the only homeless shelters in this area well the church is doing it on a temporary basis but Good Samaritan Havens and Barry they created the new twin city um on the very Montpelier road but there isn't one in Montpelier to meet the needs of people in our community and I think it's worth pursuing finding a location creating a site it won't happen overnight but that needs to be in the works great thank you Merrick so when you say our most vulnerable community are you referring to our like historically just historically marginalized communities in Montpelier or um our unhoused population I'm talking about the most vulnerable folks in our community whether that's um the homeless population it could be the LGBTQI plus community it could be whatever I left it open ended on purpose yeah I wasn't sure but um thanks for that I mean this is definitely a challenging question because it's it's a very systematic question you know it's um it's one with no no one answer but I do think there is more that our city can be doing you know just recently that there was a 2021 equity audit of Montpelier and you know that revealed pretty wide disparities in how how welcomed people of the LGBTQ community of BIPOC communities feel and the communities of non-LGBTQ non-LGBTQ and non-BIPOC communities so there's a big disparity between how these groups of people feel welcomed and although the equity audit was by no means the end all be all when it comes to you know addressing some of our most vulnerable communities it is a I think it is a good starting point because that audit outlined some goals that Montpelier can be doing to you know make these communities feel more welcomed and unfortunately none of these goals were translated into the 2022 through 2023 um city council strategic plan so for the 2023 through 2024 strategic plan I think we absolutely need to go back to that equity audit look more at the things that it outlined for how to make people feel more welcomed you know and most notably effectively planning new strategies to engage with those communities because we we got a lot of feedback um you know the city council gets a lot of feedback from you know I would say a pretty of a few very vocal people but that's not encompassing the entire that's not encompassing everyone in Montpelier and I think we really need to be targeting for public outreach the people who are not likely to come to city council meetings and not likely to attend listening sessions we need to be developing strategies to you know talk to them great thank you you pen Tom I'll speak to two vulnerable groups in our committee one is our unhoused population Montpelier and one are seniors um I've been collaborating recently with representative Connor Casey who as I think folks will know has introduced a bill to build a public restroom in the capital complex and I think this is an issue that's representative of what I hope to be able to bring to my role as a counselor because I as I said before work in the state house most days during the legislative session and I spend my days often in the correction institutions committee that's the committee that deals with state building projects right and so Connor and I have already spoken about our plans if I'm fortunate enough to be elected to sort of tag team this issue with someone in the state house and someone on the council because I have an experience dealing seeing how these projects actually come to reality and I think this is an important example of the ways in which Montpelier the city cannot be solely responsible for dealing with these tough challenges right where we need to maximize the benefit of being the capital of the state of Vermont and the state of Vermont needs to get involved in these issues so I think it's absolutely essential that we're collaborating at different levels of government to address issues like this and you know I've I've been fortunate to work with Connor and some local activists who are supporting that initiative and Connor has been kind enough to endorse my candidacy for this race so it's something I absolutely plan to work with him on if I'm fortunate enough to be elected with regard to seniors as I said I work representing thousands of Vermont state retirees my background in law school is that I worked at the Center for Medicare Advocacy and right now we're dealing with a really in my view immoral proposal to try to kick thousands of retirees off of their health care plans and to put them on risky Medicare Advantage plans that's just a frankly a disgusting proposal at a time when our seniors are more vulnerable than they've ever been so I really think it's essential that we help both of those groups great thank you well I think to describe to describe a vulnerable population I mean it's it's so it's so varied really I mean you've you've all named several but there you know there's also people who who can't afford their medication they they can't afford to heat their homes they they're they're choosing between heat and food those are all pretty big problems that I'm not sure the city can solve itself but I think we we can focus on education for one thing because I think there there are a lot of assumptions about people who are in those circumstances people make assumptions about why they're in those circumstances when in fact any number of of events can lead a person into any one of those sorts of vulnerability I think we do a really good job in Montpelier with volunteerism with programs like heat help and food shelf and that sort of thing homelessness is a is a problem that I think is being addressed more and more successfully but again we we're not going to be able to do it alone so I think we we do need to cooperate with with our state reps to see if we can so we can get some help from the state across across the board really okay thank you um Merrick you're up um so the phone I cut it off before it beeps I might not let it cut I may let it beep so if you hear the beep you're done okay okay um the question of the day what's wrong with Montpelier's infrastructure and what is the city council from a city council point of view what can be done to ensure that it's fixed that's a really great question because we have so many infrastructure challenges from you know our very documented water issues having what is it on average two water pipe bursts every week over the past few years that's a big issue um so of course is what everyone knows are pretty bad situation with regard to roads um so I'm on the complete streets committee and I think something about our our roads that often gets perhaps a little overlooked is they're they're not just bad if you're driving on them but if you're if you're a pedestrian they're also not very safe or a bike or they're not they're they're hazardous quite frankly you know we get quite regular complaints about obstructions in the road or how the there are often line of sight issues especially if you're driving down state street for instance and you know in the winter time snow piles up cars also pile up on the sidewalks if you're driving it could be really difficult to see anyone crossing the road and if and if you're walking it can also be difficult to see anyone driving so I mean we have some pretty major uh that safety piece is a pretty major issue um in addition to like our more documented challenges with regard to just potholes and our water piping what I mean what I think the the city council can do of course we can look back at um I really like to John Holler's piece in the bridge just came out yesterday regarding how the city council a few years ago we were meeting our a target that was set a few years back for street renovations and road renovations but recently since 2018 we have not been meeting the funding threshold um as set by the city council only a few years prior to that so I think we should definitely take another look at that that proposal and uh meet funding accordingly so we can yeah now I have to figure out how to turn it off um all right Tom you're up so I live on school street uh which is infrastructure issue central at the moment um I dealt with the water issues that Merrick referenced and at the moment there's a pothole on school street that is easily large enough to swallow a VW beetle I mean it's it's really a gnarly situation at the moment though those sorts of things crop up I think the folks on the council have done their best to address them but I think what's going to be required is getting ahead of these issues right we can't only be responsive I think we're going to have to make a very significant investment a forward-looking future-looking investment to prevent some of these issues before they crop up part of the challenge too has to do with not the good will of folks to address fixing these issues but having the staffing in order to do it we know that there was recently a contract reopened but I think we're going to have to really make sure that we are an attractive employer to potential folks in public works to make sure that we're able to staff this is an issue we see all across the state in here in Montpelier every day if you don't have the folks able there to do the job you're not going to be able to implement the policies so I think that's a really key part of addressing all of our infrastructure issues across the board I'll keep it short and avoid the buzzer great well thank you Sal I also read John Holler's piece the other day and on Facebook today Bill Frazier had a had a piece that with with counter examples I guess and what seems to me to have occurred and this is this is looking looking back I wasn't really thinking about it at the time but it seems to me that the pandemic set us behind and even though we received ARPA funds and we sort of caught up on the budget we never caught up on the time and and so we we had put off some projects during the pandemic we didn't have the money to undertake others that were planned and we're now playing we're now playing catch up so I agreed that that we we need to I mean as I as I go around and talk to people all I hear is about infrastructure and you know I've I've now experienced firsthand some of the roads and they're they're pretty bad in places and so people are impatient they probably don't think about why we got into this situation but whatever we're doing is not really working as far as the community many people in the community are concerned and so I think we need to take a second look and maybe makes the choices are always difficult I think every year the councils had to deal with this I think it we may have to decide to try and get ahead by shifting funds somehow or postponing some projects until we at least repair replace some of the worst possible conditions so it isn't going to be easy but it never is. Tim what do you think? Oh man this is the one where I don't want to tempt the pen but I think the infrastructure is an old city and and I think at different times with different stresses people haven't been able to keep up with things and now here we are water system is a popular one that we hear a lot about because it's been blowing off every now and then twice a week whatever you know the sewer lines the sewer situation is also pretty bad we have a CSO's you know storm sewer separation initiative that we got behind on and we still have sanitary sewer lines and storm lines combined and that's part of what these state street project will be will be to start will separate that phase of it but it's roughly last I knew about 50 times a year that our system can't handle the capacity in those lines and it overflows into the river so that's a big one too and I think we need to pay attention to it so it's streets water sewer I think we've taken care or we try to keep investing in the plants both the waste treatment plant and the water filtration plant it seems to be the distribution lines and the networks that connect to them under the streets that are hard to get to that we're not dealing with so and there are other infrastructure items too buildings and things but I think we need a real solid plan we have to set priorities and maybe some of those priorities are going to have to influence some decisions we make we won't be able to buy every cool property that comes up that we want to buy because we need to invest in keeping our town on track and making sure the water system works so I think infrastructure is a really important priority for me great thank you so the flip side of that coin Tom municipal budgets keep growing for you what's the trigger that's going to signal enough for taxpayers look I think Steve that folks would tell you now that we're in an affordability crisis in this city so I think if you're asking folks out there when I'm speaking to folks in community in the community they're telling me right now that we have to address the affordability of living here Montpelier cannot just be a playground for the rich it's a beautiful city but we have to make sure people can afford to live here we have to make sure seniors can say stay in their homes there are a host of challenges that the issue that the city faces excuse me and I as I said before and I think your question before was very prescient part of the answer to that question has to be to grow our tax base right if we're not building up new tax revenue from an increased housing stock from people moving into town we'll never be able to continue to address these problems so all of these issues are interconnected the economic development and housing pieces have a key role to play in keeping affordability down you know making it an affordable place for people to live so I think that we have to prioritize I think that we have to use excellent discretion to make sure that nobody's hard-born tax dollars are being misused or misspent but I really do think that the challenges we face are so much that we have to grow as a city in order to address these challenges to your question when is it going to be too much for folks I think the answer is it already is it already is for too many Montpelierites and we've got to address those concerns we can't ignore folks who are crying out for help Sal what's the trigger well you know the other article I read today was Phil Dodd's piece on the storm system utility that the city is creating that is likely to add a fee to the you know to the tax structure an annual fee of the neighborhood of a hundred hundred bucks hundred and fifty dollars so if we haven't already reached the trigger maybe that's what'll do it but what what's going to exacerbate the the problem is we do need to expand the tax base mainly in housing also through economic development but it takes time to do that and so even if we even if we had a bulletproof plan to do that it's going to be several years before we see the the benefit of that and so we need to come up with that plan and then until we can implement it I think we need to take a close look at how we're how we're spending the revenue and put whatever limits we can on it until we have the growth that we need uh and we can open it up again Tim it feels like I'm parroting the point but I agree I think we're at a tipping point in terms of affordability with our municipal overhead and the cost to run it which is our taxes that we're all paying um and it's uh something I've observed over the years when when people get fed up and can't take it anymore they rarely complain very loudly they vote with their feet and they just leave and we lose some really good community members for that reason and sometimes we don't even know it so I think it's really important that we focus on creating tax base and building things and every piece that like downtown there's a few sites that could be new buildings that would create wonderful tax base they could be housing and maybe commercial combined um and there's a lot of folks that are really sincerely talking about making them into parks um we have a lot of really good parks and I think we also need to have part of the conversation be about how can we create housing and infrastructure and tax base um and it just hasn't been in our fabric and who we are and I think all of us as a community need to find a way to have conversations about all these wonderful things that we want and all these services we want we need to pay for and if we build our base right it can happen but at this point we need to build that base Merrick yeah I mean so I've I've seen what the budget process is like um during my time on the school board and there's so many competing priorities and so many difficult choices that have to be made so I like to think that the people working on the municipal budget have good intentions in mind as I know the people working on the school board budget do um but at the same time I think that taxes are definitely too high I think that's a pretty wide and common belief among so many I think we're already at that big red stop sign and I think from here we really have to decide um you know we have to really carefully consider our choices we have to consider what new proposals what new projects we're going to to work on and I think any of those proposals or a lot of those proposals really have to be filtered through that lens of economic development growing our tax base making sure that we have enough housing for anyone to move to Montpelier um so I I agree with what other people have said regarding um making sure that we're prioritizing getting more people in Montpelier increasing our tax base you know um and I think just once again being really really careful with future tax increases really scrutinizing that budget making sure that we're not um doing things we don't need great Sal push has been made to decriminalize sex work in Montpelier tell us why you support or oppose that particular idea um really I I haven't given it any thought at all um you know my my only experience of um decriminalized sex work is in the city of las vegas uh and I I don't like what I saw um I think it um I mean I suppose from the sex workers point of view it's it's a whole it's a whole different thing it's a they have a whole different point of view but it I think it just changes the character of the of the city too much in in Montpelier it just seems like a complete mismatch it's just not it's just not going to work um you know I I've never I can remember being just being accosted on the street by you know people in vegas uh you know trying to push sex work sex stuff on on tourists I mean it's it's bizarre um so sort of off the top of my head I I have sort of a gut reaction against it I I can't imagine it fitting at all in the in the city of Montpelier Tim yeah I haven't any experience or anything to to know what to compare the this other option with I've never even been to Las Vegas so I haven't seen that side of it but to me I just haven't encountered anything that would make me is I can't help but wonder is it a you know is it this sagas a solution in search for problem it is it is this an issue in our community and if it is it should be discussed and if it's not let's move on I guess to the point and I'm going to follow up in in regard to what you just said it has been brought up by the council before mm-hmm Eric so I'm going to take a different approach because I think less criminalization is better um I think history has shown us that criminalizing more things really doesn't solve the issue it only um you know makes it go underground make makes it makes it worse and the change that the city council made um and voted in favor of you know that that that piece of I think it was the charter I could be wrong but that piece of the charter was rooted in in patriarchy correct quite frankly you know the way the law was structured it was specifically talking about women it really had no bearing on what Montpelier is like now and I mean this conversation around decriminalizing sex work it's something that the legislature is also having to grapple with and I mean it's something that our legislative delegation's going to have to think through but um in Montpelier I'm in favor of decriminalizing more things because at the end of the day criminalizing things I don't think is making the problem better Tom Steve I've spent my entire professional career standing up for working people and to be blunt sex work is work and these workers deserve to have their rights and interests represented they deserve the right to join a union and they deserve the right not to be put in dangerous or compromising situations as a result of an outdated frankly view of this issue so I will never apologize for standing up for working people in the city whether that's sex workers whether that's the folks who plow our roads whether that's the state employees who live here whether it's our teachers whether it's our working families I think that folks deserve to be represented I think that folks deserve not to have to live life in dangerous situations and in the shadows because of the decisions that we make on the council so I would support the initiative to legalize sex work in Montpelier for me this is a workers right issue and it's frankly as Merrick alluded to an issue that has affected negatively too many women in our community and trans folks in our community poorly for too many years and we should address it and make sure that everybody has the right to feel safe in our community great that's part of a of a focus I think we need to have on good public safety in town and yeah I'll never apologize for standing up for workers thank you great range of answers there Tim how did you vote on the country club property and what do you think needs to happen there I did not vote in support of a purchase of the country club road property and felt it came up quickly and not enough homework was done on it but I also believe in the democratic process and our community voted and we've purchased it so we now own a beautiful beautiful piece of land that's a wonderful community resource and I believe our next challenge is how to do the best we can with it for future generations from Montpelier great thank you Eric well of course um town meeting day will be my first election I can actually vote in so last time when the country club project was came up for came upon the ballot I was not able to vote um and but if I if I was able to vote for it um if I had I I do think I would have voted for it um I know that it has not been a perfect process not not at all um but I'm I think we should jump on any opportunity to produce more affordable housing to you know as we were all talking about earlier economic development we should be prioritizing any opportunity we can to grow our tax base to grow our population and I think the Elks Club is once again one facet of what needs to be a multifaceted approach to address our housing situation in Montpelier and the other facets you know trusting our legislative delegation working with the state to get the support we need looking at unused parking lots downtown or unused spaces downtown and seeing how we can convert those if at all into housing but I think the Elks Club provides an opportunity for housing an opportunity for recreation and that's why I would have voted for it great thank you Tom I think that this is an issue that had a lively robust debate people felt very strongly about it on both sides and I think that it is a property that we now own and we have to make the best of it right so what does that look like I think that looks like ensuring that we're making an approach there that involves housing of different levels and types right different income levels perhaps both condominiums and rental properties we need to have a diverse best use of this of this property I also think as well there's been talk about our recreational facilities in Montpelier right now and spending potentially up to three million dollars to renovate really frankly antiquated bit of infrastructure there I think that some of the proposals that have been had by as I said before representative Conor Casey and other folks on the council to invest in perhaps new and innovative recreation spaces on that property are also worth looking into so you know I really I don't want to judge folks based on their previous support or opposition to this proposal I think folks have had a diverse set of views and I respect those views but we're here now and we need to make the best of it and I think using that property in a way that addresses so many of the challenges we've talked about here tonight is going to be what's key in making a success out of where we are right now I may have missed it how did you vote at that point I was with my mother who is 75 years old in my hometown of the northeast kingdom of Holland Vermont and at that point I was I was up there and so I was not able to vote on the question great thank you do you want to say how you would have voted I think as I said the most important thing to do is to leave the very frankly divisive question in the past and move forward trying to maximize this community resource spoken like a true politician Sal I voted for it at the time the discussion began really with the placement of the rec center and the committee had really as near as I could tell exhausted all all other possibilities and saw the else called property as ideal really because it it it fit the the space that they needed for their indoor facility and it had a large open area that could be used for fields sports fields so it made sense it it also seemed to me that when when housing was was added to the discussion which happened pretty quickly that that was a possibility up there although I think it's I think it's difficult and I think it will be expensive and I if we do it I think it's important that we do it correctly and by that I mean that we build a variety of housing types so we need studio apartments we need one bedrooms and two bedrooms as well as maybe single family detached townhouse type stuff I don't think we're going to build 500 houses up there and I don't think we're going to build them in the next five years I think it's going to be a long time the fact that we own the property gives us control which I think is good I think it gives us an opportunity to do things in a different way I think it's important that whatever we build we build to the highest building science standards we should be building houses like their cathedrals they should last for centuries you know not decades and we need to make houses that any anything any house that we build up there any housing unit at all affordable not just to the first buyer but to successive buyers and I think if we have the right the controls we may be able to accomplish that seeing when you go over I have to figure out how to use this technology thank you um Merrick how do you think other communities perceive Montpelier these days and do you think that these perceptions are justified another great question um I mean I think many other communities cities and towns across Vermont are dealing with many of the same issues that Montpelier is so I think they they understand you know that they're kind of going through the same thing Burlington for instance has a significant issue with their unhoused population and well challenge with their unhoused population as well um so I I certainly think that other cities and towns once again you know perceive Montpelier as as kind of similar to their own communities but at the same time Montpelier isn't any other community it's the capital of Vermont so I think it is held to a higher standard when out of out of town legislators come into town or when visitors come into town to Montpelier as it's major tourist destination so I think Montpelier is not like other towns and I think it should certainly be doing be doing more to address some of these perceptions around it I think and yeah okay and it can also I think leverage his position to work with other legislatures across or legislators across the state to help address some of these more systematic issues. Great, Tom. Steve, I think that people outside of our community think of it as a beautiful charming robust city with great restaurants great places to shop great cultural events and I think it's a wonderful place to visit but that it's a too expensive place to live in that's what I think and I in terms of your question about are they correct they are correct um I think that there are I I know that there are I speak spoken to my folk my friends who work in Montpelier young folks people with young families people who are trying to start out in their careers older folks who've had to move away because of the affordability crisis in town they love this place they wish they could make their home there and they just can't afford to do it so yeah I think that perception is correct and that's a huge part of why I'm running for the council so I agree with that assessment I think uh well I think there's a side of of Montpelier because the legislature's here and whenever somebody doesn't like something the legislature does they say oh Montpelier you know those folks in Montpelier but they're not talking about us they're talking about politics I think the city kind of suffers from success it's it's I think people see it as a really wonderful place to live and wish they could afford to live here and I think that that also contributes to our housing problem a lot of people want to live here and there's just not enough not enough housing for them not enough work for them so we need we need to solve we need to solve that problem but I I think the the image is a good one and is going strong we need we need to do whatever we can to to protect that and maybe make it more accessible now we get here from the realtor I love these answers they're it is I think Montpelier is very well perceived people love it here when we live here housing is our biggest shortage it feels like we have a robust downtown which is a rare thing to find these days throughout the country if you drive through it's amazing what we have here we have this incredible community with just it's just built over time with great schools it's just it's the right chemistry you know how does towns around us view us I don't know every town around us has a different flavor and has their own strengths also but I do think welcoming more people into the community creating more opportunities for housing is definitely going to be a key element for keeping Montpelier on the top of its game great thank you Tom tell us your thoughts on Montpelier's demographic challenges and what specific things do you think need to happen to change them to benefit the city in the long term well your question Steve as I said a moment ago your these questions are really hitting some of the main reasons I want to be here like the rest of the state of Vermont our community is graying very quickly ensuring that our seniors can stay in their homes ensuring that our seniors are a part of a vibrant community is a core focus of mine I also think that it is essential that we are making this an affordable attractive place for young people folks to start a family for folks to start their careers I think this ties back these demographic graphic issues like so much of the rest of the conversation we've had all ties back to the issue of affordability right we were just talking a moment ago I think this these two questions are basically part one and part two of the same discussion right we're just talking a moment ago about how much we wish people wish they could live here and can't and so I think unless we make sure that people who want to rent here are able to rent in a way where they're not seeing their rents skyrocketing over time people don't want to buy a home here have access to make that transition from being renters to being homeowners we're never going to address these demographic issues as I said before as well I really think it's essential they were doing outreach to new communities and folks who we perhaps haven't reached out to in the past as I said before I think we need to be making ourselves an attractive place for families who are refugees for families of new americans I think that the initiative recently on non-citizen voting was helpful in that regard but we have to be reaching out to a diverse group of folks and making sure that they can afford to live in this place where they want to live so um well I I agree that there are so many populations that are affected um I mean there's there certainly the the seniors who can't afford to live in their in their homes and then they're young folks who are just looking for the first time for a place to live I was actually surprised to find that Vermont doesn't have much in the way of rent rent control legislation and maybe it's time to to think about to think about that at at the state level and see what applies or what might apply in Montpelier because when we have this supply demand situation prices you know the market just goes crazy and I think we also have to find ways to give relief to people who are being driven out of their their their lifetime home particularly seniors who just can't afford to make the the property tax one solution is alternative housing so that they have a place that they can afford to move to and open up that housing to to someone younger still working who who can maybe better afford it so the problems circle back over each other I think the solutions are inter interconnected Tim repeat the question sure um if I can find the question again sorry um where am I here um oh tell us your thoughts on Montpelier's demographic challenges and what specific things you feel need to happen to change them to benefit the city in the long run demographic the aging of our whole country is an issue but certainly it's a big issue for us um and how to how to make a place for younger families can can be involved with their lives is is their housing needs change and their needs for whatever happens in their families um and it seems like housing is a key part of that um and having options for people I think the the older folks who are feeling squeezed out of their homes by taxes we've got to remember we have act 60 and about I think it's about 70% of the taxpayers of Montpelier get property tax relief from the state from that program um which really is a powerful program and I think it helps a lot of people I I think some ways the best thing would be to have options for people is when you get to different points in life you need something different maybe you don't need the big old Victorian house with stairs everywhere maybe you need something more on one floor or you know and it's having those options to allow people to transition and when when the gray haired folks move out of the big house down to the smaller place then that opens up another home or possibly for you know a younger family to move in and enjoy it well I have a lot of thoughts on the demographic situation playing out in Montpelier I mean our community is aging and unlike in the past young people aren't coming up to take over the resources and the needs in town and I mean I think this tells us that we've neglected the needs of young people for for too long and I mean we've known for some time now some of these underlying trends like the fact that grades uh in the younger grades at the mom in the Montpelier school district are smaller than they used to be um so I think this shows that we're already aging and um the trends show that this isn't going to change anytime soon unless we take I think some decisive action and I mean this is probably the issue most near and dear to my heart because once again the the 2021 equity audit showed us that showed a real disconnect between the people on city council and this community and I mean there are multiple multiple reasons for this but I think one way to help close that divide and I say what better way to close that divide between how people in this community feel especially groups like young people who can't find a home here um what better way to make them feel welcomed than by electing younger individuals to city council and really showing them that their needs are our city's priorities I also thought it was really horrifying to hear last week in the mayoral forum that the census bureau defines Montpelier as a nork a naturally occurring occurring retirement community that is definitely a very concerning trend and fact right now unfortunately great thank you very much um Sal in your opinion has the district heat plant been worth it um I really don't I really don't know I've heard opinions both both ways I it sounded like a really good idea to me when I heard about it um I haven't been involved with it much really until recently but um I think if if it is uh if it is struggling we we ought to as we go forward with uh our infrastructure plan we ought to integrate it somehow if if we need if we need more hookups for example we ought to we ought to do that while we're while we've got this the street open uh if we're going to do infill downtown or development downtown we ought to see if there's a way that we we can tie into it so um if it's successful great if it's if it needs help I think there there are ways that we can probably help help it by integrating it into uh future future plans Tim the district heat plant is owned by the state of Vermont and Montpelier's Loop is um off that plant we were a guest at their table they set the rates um and define what we pay the prices coming off the last several years have been um I have a property on the system so I'm really familiar with it um and it's it you pay it's roughly a third more to heat your building with that system in previous years than you would if you just pay bought fossil fuels at the market price um so it didn't make a lot of economic sense uh plus the cost to hook it up and and be connected to the system initially uh if you had to spread those out it really it's expensive however oil prices went up this year it's still not a deal to be on district heat but it doesn't feel as bad as it did last year um and it was predicated on four dollar a gallon fuel um when they put the system in they went way over budget the city did on the loops they put in and I believe they cut back on some of the the pipes in the capacity so it somewhat limits how many more people can hook up without more capital being put in um but there is room on the system now and um I think the concept is great I think we've just got to look at it for down the road to say do we stay on the loop with the state or maybe someday we should look at having a plant we can control um because I think the state needs a lot of their capacity for their future down the road too and they're not anxious to share so we want to grow we're not going to grow on that plant district heat has certainly been a mixed bag I think to say whether or not it's worth it we really have to consider as a town our priorities and we have to map that out are we committed to reducing our reliance on fossil fuels on getting to our net zero objective if so then from that standpoint district heat has been a success because for those on it it has reduced our reliance to fossil fuels but at the same time it's a mixed bag because it has come at a high price to those users um but I mean I so I think we really have to consider that question um what are our priorities is it fossil fuels is it reducing our reliance on them or is it on the tax burden but um I think district heat could be worth it um especially if we get more people on it get um get more people on it you know spread out that tax burden on a on a wider area I think we could do that through incentives for sure um yeah I I think there are things we could do to make it better so I think this is another one of those questions where none of us were serving on the council at the time and we are where we are now we need to make the best of it um I think it's important as Merrick pointed out to acknowledge that this does play a role in something I wholeheartedly support which is continuing on the great work that now senator then Mary Ann Watson did when she put us on the path to 90% renewable energy and reducing our fossil fuel imp imp rent excuse me by 2030 so I think we need to think about questions of this type in that regard um I I think that's an essential part of what we've got to do moving forward and I'm very honored to have both senator Watson and counsel Lauren Hurl who's an incredible environmentalist they're they're backing um I think this also goes back to what I was discussing very quickly before which is the importance of having somebody at the negotiating table with the state when state projects are being done who understands that process very well this is another issue that came before the corrections and institutions committee where I routinely sit and testify so I would like to make sure that going forward when we're setting the terms of what a project is like this is going to look like that we're working together with folks like representative Casey like representative McCann um folks who I have a good working relationship with and who have endorsed me I'm going to take 20 seconds of the question if I have it to just quickly loop back on one issue on the demographic question I think an important point of focus we haven't discussed it so far tonight is child care child care child care my mom spent her career training folks to provide child care and that's a key part of of addressing our demographic challenges people will say oh that's not a city issue I think we have to make addressing issues like that for young families part of our priorities in the city I think we have to partner with groups like let's go let's grow kids and make sure we're addressing those community needs as well great boy you eat that one in had to had to squeeze it in it's such an important issue I really I hope we discuss it more than the rest of the day well perhaps we'll see um so we are we're closing in on the last few questions with about uh we're at 738 so and I want to make sure that we have enough time for your closing statements so I think we're going to do probably two more questions if that's all right with everybody um so we are looking at who are we looking at Tim Tim okay when you are looking at Montpelier and you look at the things that we do now and you look what other communities are doing around us what do we need to regionalize and what do we need to consolidate a good question because I think we do a lot of things just because we've always done them the way we do it seems like um I think we need to find a way toward more county government in some areas than we have in Vermont um town clerks are are sacred here but in terms of how the world works now I think county government would be a much more efficient way to maintain public records um more and more they're electronic and and more and more standardized so I think that's an important piece that we need to look at and I think we also need to look at sharing resources because really we're Montpelier with our 8,000 people in the middle and the U32 communities around us I've always been um well not always but since my days on the school board and I still think we need to have a conversation with U32 um it seems like from an educational system to offer more opportunities for students to share the resources we've got I think if if we could merge with U32 that would be a really fantastic thing for this community and I think it would be good for them too so I mean those are two key areas but I think it's really worth looking through the whole government at some point I don't know if there's a way to do a if the city council ever does a time when they do a retreat and sit back and say what if we could start all over again how would it look you know what would be the best way to do this in today's terms um I can't help but even looking at on the city's website it how many committees are on the list and if we're elected um I assume we each need to be on a certain number of committees as a liaison from the council um so that's in addition to going to the meetings but are all those committees still current are they still being supported by city government and are they still needed and if not we shouldn't we should make sure we use the citizens we're volunteering their time in a way that's meaningful and not just continue committees on that aren't necessary so maybe they're all necessary but I couldn't help but look at that list and go wow great thank you yeah three things um two of them brought up by tim actually I really like that idea about you know more coordination between city and town committees on the complete streets committee we've actually talked about this you know what are other city what are other complete streets or a street like committees around the state doing that perhaps we could be doing as well and there've been there's been talk about actually no we have met with um a few of those other like complete street like committees so I think I would really like to see more coordination between both our city committees and other committees around the state I think that would also help you know increase cooperation between towns and municipalities around the state I think that's a good thing the second thing I think this question is kind of almost referring to the central Vermont public safety authority which is about item to whether or not to be dissolved and I mean I really like the idea of regional public safety regional emergency service I think the way the central Vermont public safety authority has gone about it hasn't been the best at all and I I do think it should be dissolved but um I do think the idea of a coordinated emergency a regional coordinated emergency response I think that's a really good idea and I think we should definitely take another look at that as for um the school schools um potentially Montpelier and U32 merging I don't know if I would go that far I think that would probably create probably the biggest school district in the state I would not I could be wrong but it would be a very be a big district and it would be a lot of resources spread out over a big area so I don't know I there I think there were just too many questions surrounding what to do with all those unused facilities and the needs of students as well but I do like the idea of coordinating more with U32 like we already do some coordination with regard to sports teams and extracurricular activities so I think there should be more of that great Tom so um I'll give a couple of quick specific answers to your question and then I'll speak more broadly about how I think about this issue um specifically I think that as Washington County grows and as the central Vermont area grows uh that has benefits for folks here in Montpelier so I think sort of economic development initiatives that are able to be done on a more regional basis can and often bear fruit and I think that's one area we need to look I also think that you know we really need to enhance our position as having central mont be really a cultural hub in the state and I think because of the cultural program we already have here Montpelier will be a natural home for a lot of those initiatives so if we can help coordinate some of that with local neighboring communities I think that will help help us build on an area of strength we always already have but I guess I'll just say um I think we've seen in many areas around the state that when there are regional efforts there are sort of inherently imbalances between the towns and cities that end up providing more to those regional partnerships and the towns and cities then end up receiving more as a part of them so for me at the end of the day the interests of the folks in Montpelier the interests of the folks in my district are going to have to come first and if it's a situation where the city of Montpelier can leverage regional communities to make sure that we're all thriving including the folks in Montpelier it's something we should pursue and I'll be able to willing to consider any initiative like that but it won't really be done from my perspective from a regional mindset it'll be Montpelier focused that's how we have to think about these questions okay thank you good answer Sal um I think there's certainly advantages to regionalizing uh public safety uh health first responders um I'm a little disappointed that the CVPSA appears to be not working out I hope that if it's dissolved we come up with a plan B and and try again and correct whatever whatever mistakes we we made because I it just seems to make sense to me eliminating a lot of redundancy and enhancing the effectiveness of the program um I don't know how we negotiate the pilot with the state but uh I think we ought to do it as a the state the state has a lot of real estate in a lot of towns and I if we don't do it as a group we should uh it I can understand why that why the state resists change or at least radical change year after year but um I think if we if we negotiate as a group we would we'd probably end up um a little bit a little bit better in a little bit better shape um other than that I you know I'm willing to to enter entertain um consolidation I I don't know about the rivalry between Montpelier and U32 but even that might work out well we'll see but I I would entertain consolidation as a possibility great thank you um with your permission I'd like this last question it's a pretty simple question actually to be one minute and then that way we all have time for the closing arguments and it's going to go to you Merrick we're going to start with you um what's one thing you wish you could change about Montpelier might have some overlap here with things I've things I and other people have said but I wish there was more housing Montpelier housing of all scales affordable housing you know single-family homes multi-family homes studio apartments I if I could change one thing about Montpelier it would be that there would be more housing for our community yeah great one thing I wish our city were more affordable I wish our city were more affordable I wish that people could have a chance as so many people do and are not able to to make their homes and lives here in Montpelier it's going to be a core focus of mine if I'm on the council tell uh well Tom mentioned child care earlier and I would I would make I would try to integrate child care into as a as a municipal service somehow subsidized it's just uh I think it's just impossible to grow grow an economy and a population without adequate child care and our child care is not adequate at the moment Tim I guess it would be how to how to keep it so that people can be comfortable living here businesses can thrive how to keep the economy vibrant and and people happy and having the services they need and it's like how to provide all of this and keep it within the those constraints of what people can do it's a really big challenge and that's what we need to resolve or try great well thank you that was that was really great now I'm gonna we're gonna close with closing statements and we actually hit it just right so we get to start with you again so hold on we before we do it let me get my timer back all right where it needs to be fair enough you have two minutes Tom thanks Steve I want to thank Orca and I want to thank the artist for putting this on this has been a great event and I've really enjoyed the conversation we've been able to have here tonight I think my message for the voters in district three is that I am the progressive candidate in this race who will spend every day of my time on the council fighting for folks in my district I think that I've been very fortunate to receive the endorsements of some folks whose model in their service to our community has provided me with a way forward and a path path I hope to pursue Senator Ann Watson, Senator Andrew Perchlich, Lieutenant Governor David Zuckerman, Representative Kate McCann, Representative Connor Casey, Lauren Hurl on the City Council right now these are the folks whom I feel I share values with and if you out there watching this feel that those are folks who have the community's interests at heart I'd ask you to help me join them in their work they're doing for Montpelier as I said I'm the son of a social worker and an early childhood education expert and I they are huge inspirations for me and how we need to move forward in a spirit of public service I've devoted my adult life to working for working families and folks who haven't had a voice I view my role on the council if I'm fortunate enough to be elected as an extension of that work and I will I think it's the most important thing anybody in municipal government can do is to be a voice for the folks in their district very quickly I know I'm probably short on time but I think this is an important point my model of what it means to serve a municipal government comes from my time working for then mayor and now senator Cory Booker and his model of city government is when folks in their community had a problem they called him up they texted him if there was a pot hair hole on the road or something they need to address he himself would show up with the truck I will always make myself available to folks in Montpelier to address their concerns I want to serve them thank you very much so this has been a really good discussion a lot of good ideas here I think you know Montpelier has some some challenges has had for quite a while and has has more coming up that the council is going to be dealing with in the next year or two that that will affect the character of Montpelier for you know the next decade I think that you know my experience in the in the housing industry in particular will be valuable in in in that endeavor I'm really concerned that whatever we do it seems like we're just as human beings we're good at starting things and we're lousy at follow-through I think if we if we planned correctly and for a long time that we will start right and we and things will will end right when we get off track I think we need to adjust and right now I think we're we're a little bit off track in a in a couple of ways and I think we we need to make some corrections in the next year or two along with some very long-term plans for housing what worries me is is the length of time that that takes and so I would like to find ways to streamline that process but we're never going to get it down to it's not going to change overnight and and the solution for that from my point of view is is better communication I think we do a lot of explaining after the fact I think we ought to do more communication as things develop and so I've been talking with people in community about making sure that if I'm on the council I communicate on a regular basis about you know in real time about what's what's going on great thank you very much Tim thank you thank you for doing this forum it's been great to meet all of you too and have this conversation first time some of us have met so this has been really nice I love Montpelier I think I'm really concerned about the future and wanting to leave it is what was we can for the next generations coming through and we have a lot of loose ends that we need to deal with we've talked about some of them tonight I feel like I'm in a great place I've had a good record of community service and I've been fortunate to be on different boards and committees and over the years and and I feel like this is one I can really have an impact and contribute to now I do think some different voices on the city council will be healthy and and I feel like it's a good time for change and this year with the election there will be three so it's good you know in terms of other pieces I think there are other housing projects on the on the list too not just the country club road piece and I think we shouldn't ignore those there's a lot of opportunities right now in town they're all going to take time to happen and we've got to start nurturing them they're all in different phases on the on the track so I'm being aware of that and helping different projects to happen will be part of our role on city council I do want to mention that master plan again because as I attended a meeting at the Elks Club and people were talking I couldn't help but think how starved the community is for this master plan because some of the issues those folks were talking about for the Elks Club putting a school up here building a rec center here those are really topics that should be part of master planning for a community and should be located in the right place in town depending on community values I think walkable is one key value for a rec center so probably with that's worth but so anyway that's that's it thank you very much yeah thank you Steve thank you to the Times Argus and Orca for hosting this conversation I think it's been really really awesome to talk with you all and map out some of our priorities right now I feel as so many feel that we're at an inflection point I think the decisions that we make now will affect everyone but if we don't start paying close attention to the needs of the future of our community young and middle-aged people then they're not going to choose Montpelier over another town and community that will prioritize them and this is why I'm running for city council because I think having a wide assortment of voices on the council is crucial for the decision-making process and I'm focused on addressing the disparity between what people make and what they can afford especially regarding housing in Montpelier and I'm also committed to working on efforts to fight climate change champion LGBTQ equality and support sustainable and safe infrastructure including roads drinking water and sewage treatment I'm also proud to have received the endorsement of rights and democracy Vermont and representatives uh state representatives Connor Casey and Kate McCann and I hope to continue working with them and champion championing so many of the priorities that and needs that so many in our community you know are facing right now so thank you and I hope I can earn your support on March 7th well thank you very much folks that was a really good conversation and and I want to thank all of you for joining in in that conversation tonight and for the viewing audience for taking part as well a big thank you to Orca media for hosting and recording and rebroadcasting and a few quick reminders you you all get to reconvene here in a few days the Montpelier Rotaries hosting a forum on Monday the 27th from 12 30 to 2 in the council chambers at Montpelier City Hall for the mayoral candidates and then a second forum for you folks the the the city council candidates will follow up at 3 and Orca is going to be providing coverage of that as well that that event is also being co-hosted by the bridge lastly you can get your absentee ballots right now be sure to get out and vote polls are going to be open on the 7th from until 7 o'clock and I would urge you to check in with the Times Argus of course the that evening and the next morning for our outstanding meeting day coverage and I want to thank you all for tuning in and for support supporting local journalism and public access television so good night and thank you