 Jim Groom, welcome to Eden. Thank you for your keynote this morning. It was very enthralling. A lot of people resonated with it. One of the things that intrigued us all was your use of a strap line which said the uneducation of technologists. What does that mean? Uneducation of the technologists was a quote from a title of a paper that Brian Lam and I wrote for The Rust Journal back in 2009. It was Brian's title and what I think we were getting at and the idea behind it is with the kind of maelstrom of technologies and the way in which the web changes, some of the ways we think about teaching and learning, how do we as a community of educational technologists learn to kind of work with that and work within that? And the uneducation was kind of letting go of some of the kind of preconceptions, some of the idea of grafting what we do in the classroom face to face onto the online. And I think this idea of uneducation became about engaging the maelstrom and he has a beautiful quote from Edgar Allan Poe in there, which Marshall McLuhan said he had referred back to when writing The Mechanical Bride as a way to kind of rethink how media is rewiring us, like a form of understanding new modes of media and particularly McLuhan would always talk about this in relationship to electricity. And so much of what McLuhan was saying in the 60s and 70s resonates so deeply with how we're thinking about the web and the kind of fragmentation and atomic redistribution of our sense of time and space. It's cool and so I think of uneducation as an expression of that for technologists and teaching and learning. You mentioned the 70s, back in the 70s also, even Ilitch wrote a book called De-Schooling Society. Does that have synergy with what you're talking about, that kind of idea? I think it does and I think a lot of people have referred back to, you said, Ilitch, Freire, this notion of rethinking some of the kind of institutional structures around teaching and learning and both the limits and possibilities of that. And I think one of the things we get into, and Ilitch talks about this sort of Freire, like there's an exchange model of the classroom and it's very much unilateral and the question of control is very situated. And I think with some of the ways we think about the web is it de-centers control, right? It's a de-centered platform and it's not to say that control isn't reforming in some real ways on the web, but there is a space struggle there that has given voice to a whole new way of interacting around media. And I do think unschooling in relationship to the web, it's not coincidental that the two re-emerged as a question over the last decade and opened up a whole possibility for better or for worse to disrupt education. And I think that's an interesting moment we're in and what that means defining that so it doesn't just become another buzzword that sells a product. One of the highly disruptive things that you attempted which is still running is DS106. Not everyone has heard of it, but for those who haven't, perhaps could you explain what it is and how that links into what you've just said? Well first, as you know, I have to establish it's for life, right? And that's a joke because the people who do take DS106, they get passionate about it. It becomes not only a class, it becomes a community of people who share and create and build. And the for life is a notion that a class doesn't necessarily have to be a 15 week experience that you go through, you take the class, you leave. And DS106 started out as that and in some ways it still is for 25 or 30 students a semester. But it's also a really kind of engaged community of people who in 2010 started as a small class at Mary Washington, but in 2011 based on people's interest in creating their own domain and building their own space became an open course where over 500 people took it and we had people from all over the world sharing. And it became a kind of marketplace for creative ideas. It's like if you want to create something cool and get feedback you would use the DS106 hashtag on Twitter or you go to the assignment bank for DS106 and you'd submit an assignment. Or you decide to drop your blog off into the feed and see what other people say. It was an ecosystem for learning and it was an ecosystem and community for creativity. There was a radio station created by Grant Potter. The assignment bank was created by Martha Burdus. Alan Levine created the remix machine. I mean, so many people went into building this. And even the students created a site that was a part of the ecosystem where other students could submit what they thought the work that inspired them. And so like everybody was building the ecosystem as it unfolded. And I think there's that expression building the airplane while it's flying and DS106 really does kind of capture that spirit of teaching and learning as a process. Thank you, Jim, for your insight today. It's been great talking to you. And thank you also for the time you spent with us. Thank you.