 Welcome, it's time for our very first hot topic and I want to take a look at the visa ban on certain Nigerians by the U.S. on over-electrical offenses and we've been joined by Mr. Nick Agole, who is a public affairs analyst, to take a look at this. He's based in the UK. Mr. Nick, good to have you with us. Thank you very much. Good morning to our viewers. Good morning to you. So first of all, this is not the first time that U.S. is doing this. However, again, names are not listed and that's one thing that Nigerians are calling for as this has been done. Let's have your take on this scenario that's playing out. Thank you very much for the question and I have a few things to say about this. The first one is that it is right for the U.S. to take these actions to support our democracy, to help deepen our democracy. Because at the end of the day, it is beneficial to Nigerians, but it is also beneficial to the U.S. itself because first of all, we just had this recent incident of an attack on the convoy of the U.S. consulate in Nigeria at which our lives were lost. They lost the lives of their staff and the lives of our security men were also lost. And each of these lives that were lost is a real life, a life with families who loved ones, those people depending on them and all of that. If we had a functional government in Nigeria, a government that obeys the Constitution that says the primary aim where people are in office is to provide security and welfare to all Nigerians and people who are in Nigeria. If we had a functional government, those people whose lives have been brutally taken will still be a life today because the government would have provided security in a number and all other states and the FCT in Nigeria such that such a broad daylight attack cannot happen, you know? And even if it happens, as it happens elsewhere, the government security architecture would have by now rounded up those who are responsible and giving them a clear choice whether they want to surrender to law enforcement or they want to be fixed an appointment with God. So that is one of the advantages that the U.S. itself tends to benefit if they help to deepen our democracy because U.S. businesses are also operating in Nigeria. And if we have a functional government, the businesses would thrive better than they are now or there are even businesses in the U.S. that would like to come to Nigeria that are currently being discouraged from coming to Nigeria. And if the U.S. helps us to deepen our democracy, it is also to their own advantage. So it is good that they have taken these steps and I think that this visa ban is not enough. It has actually not gone enough because you asked the same question. If we refuse the people a visa going to the U.S. and so what? They probably have the device or some of these other tax havens or nations where criminals could be allowed to come in. That's a sentiment shared by a guest we just had a while ago. Mr. Isikanya took that the visa ban is not enough. It's not harsh enough. What would you suggest that should have been done? Okay, so in addition to visa ban, so what we are saying is that visa ban should not be taken off the table. Of course, these people should be banned. At least it kind of destroys their ego. The fact that they are not able to go to the U.S. At least their ego is bruised, which is good because they could be invited to a conference, invited to anything in the U.S. They may have assets and all that in the U.S. They can't go there. So that is okay. So the visa should be there, but it's not enough. Additionally, the U.S. possesses the capacity and capability to be able to trace illegal storing monies for Nigeria. They have that capacity and capability. So they should follow through by tracing all the egotten wealth, the monies that these people have stolen from Nigeria, trace it and seize it. And when they seize it, they need to understand whether the government that is in Nigeria is actually a functional government or not because we have seen cases where these monies have been seized and have been sent back to governments in Nigeria who ended up also stealing the money. So if the government is functional, it's accountable to the people, they can return the money to the government. But if such a government is not accountable, then the U.S. can as well engage international and local agencies to execute projects for Nigerians with the money directly, go and sink water projects, electricity projects, construct roads, build schools, do clinics around communities in Nigeria that don't see these things. That would be my my my my my my my my my my purposers. That is that number one. number two, the US government should laze with other countries in the world. So that there's a total visa ban on these people all over the world, not just in the US. And if these people have found any of these nations, there are arrested and tried. You know? Tried! They need to do much more than this ordinary visa ban. Because the US has the capacity If the U.S. wants to get the EU on board with them, they can do it. And then there will not be an EU ban, this is a ban. And then this will be placed on a wanted list so that they are only hold up in Nigeria. And they'll be forced to spend their money in Nigeria. Because right now, they take the money, they take it out of Nigeria. And then they go to where they have kept the money and they'll be enjoying the money. And then they have scattered Nigeria. They scattered Nigeria and they find themselves and their families to some foreign land where they are not enjoying their lives. They should be forced to remain in the Nigeria that they have scattered. So that all of us are in that Nigeria. And maybe perhaps that can bring them to a point where they say, look, since we don't have anywhere to go, let us now solve Nigeria so that Nigeria is also good for all of us to enjoy. Now, do you see this encouraging the UK to also come out openly? Because in April, in April, the UK also did mention that about five to ten Nigerians were on their watch lists with regards to electoral offenses. Do you see this propelling them to come out now and also place their own ban? They should come in like yesterday. The US government should come in like yesterday with their ban. The EU as a bloc should come in like yesterday. These people should be, they should be made pariah. They should be made unwanted. We should go to even Asia. The Association of Southeast Asian Nations, as seen, should ban them. The likes of Australia, New Zealand, everywhere, Canada should ban these people. Because what these people are doing is not right. We have a country that should be one of the most beautiful countries in the whole world that is being damaged. But people who have no interest to deliver good governance. Their only is that we're using the office to come and stay, meet, and then touch the money somewhere. Whereas every single person who is coming to ask for our vote should have a singular intention. I want to serve my people. I want to make their lives better. I want to develop Nigeria. I want to contribute my own quota to develop Nigeria. I want Nigeria to be beautiful for all of us. But they have turned themselves into low cost. And when we come out to vote for competent leadership, they taught the process. They bring the military, the police, you know, to scare us. And then even the votes, the little votes that we end up putting in the ballot box. They now steal it again. They perpetrate electoral corruption on all of that. So where are we going to run to? What are we going to do? So we actually need the help of the international community, all of the international community, to come and fish out these people who are destroying our democracy and deal with them. The announcement was made by the UK councillor here in Nigeria. Femi Faniqaade, who was specifically mentioned in the course of that discussion, did respond. And even now that the US placed their own visa ban, he has also responded that they wouldn't lose sleep over this. How do you respond to the fact that he's making all these responses? Especially as his name is not mentioned in the UK visa ban yet. At least his name has not been mentioned. That is the other thing. I would have wished the US actually names these individuals so that we would know them. We would know those who are on this visa ban because that would also shame them. It will shame them. So somebody like Femi Faniqaade, you see, Nigeria is an interesting place. If Nigeria was not an interesting place, somebody like Faniqaade should not be given any space to come out and rant and make noise and be speaking. Because that man, his pedigree over time, he has lost all credibility. Such a person should not even be given any time to speak. In the UK here, where I'm sitting, he has issues here. I don't even think he can come here in the UK. So people like that, if we're a responsible nation, nobody should even regard what they say. Nobody. Because over time, today he's singing on behalf of the APC. Yesterday, he was singing on behalf of the PDP. Tomorrow, who knows? He might not be singing back on behalf of the PDP. This is somebody who switches allegiance like a chameleon. I'm not abusing him or saying anything against him. I'm talking about his pedigree. What he has done over time in this country we call Nigeria. So perhaps his name is on the list. But that is why he's coming out and saying he will not lose any sleep. But I know he will lose some sleep. Well, the US Secretary of State has spoken with our President-elect. They made some very strong discussions there. They had the importance of inclusive leadership that represents all Nigeria was one of the things that he talked about. Before you respond to what you think about this conversation that took place between the Secretary of State, the US Secretary of State and the President-elect. I also respond to the fact that Atikua-Bubakar and the Labour Party have described that phone call as quite demoralising. I have read the statement of Atikua-Bakar on Twitter. What he said, I haven't read that of the Labour candidate but they can say what they want to say from their own perspective. But I also understand it from the perspective of the US to say that there was an election. And the result of the election is being disputed. The result of the election is being disputed doesn't mean governments will have to come to a stop. I mean, a similar thing happened with the US. A similar thing. Blinken's government, I mean the government at Blinken's house, they won an election. And they were disputed, led prominently by the then outgoing President Donald Trump. He said that Joe Biden did not win the election. And this thing went to court. He went to court all the way to the Supreme Court in the US. And Donald Trump is now being accused of instigating a riot at the Capitol to stop the declaration of his opponent, Joe Biden as the President. And that is now undergoing criminal proceedings in the US. So it will be difficult on the side of the US to not come to Nigeria and say that they are not going to recognize... Sorry, I need power into my phone, computer. So they are not going to recognize the election that had in Nigeria, why the matters are in court. No, we have to allow the judicial process to play out, just like it played out in the US. And it is the court that will not decide who actually was the winner of the election in 2020. This past election that we had in Nigeria is the court that will decide... 2023. I can understand why the candidate Atikwa Mubaka and Kanide Pita will be in the last presidential elections are not happy that the US Foreign Secretary had a phone conversation with the declared winner of the election. But I also understand from the perspective of the US is that just like it happened in their own case, I was trying to narrate how it happened in their own case. In their own case, in the last presidential election, there was an election and the result was being disputed, led by the candidate who was then the incumbent President Donald Trump who lost. And the matters were in court all the way to the Supreme Court of the US. And Donald Trump decided to assist as he is being accused now to take laws into his hand and instigate a riot at the Capitol to stop the declaration of the results. And that is what the US will not also want to happen in Nigeria. They wouldn't want to support a situation where the results are stopped or the declaration of results is stopped or even the swearing in of a candidate that has been declared is stopped until the courts of law adjudicate on the matter. So since the matters are in court, I believe the US government, they are in a hard position because of course they are aware that there were electoral malpractices, but they are not the ones who will come and adjudicate or make pronouncements on them. They will have to leave that to the court. And so they are going to work with whoever is sitting on the seat of the President of Nigeria. And as of today, Bola Ahamé Tinibu is the one who has been declared a winner. And if the courts don't take any contrary decision on the 29th of May, he will be sworn in. And when he's sworn in, the judicial process will continue. And if the courts decide after they have heard all parties that Tinibu is not the validly declared President-Elect and somebody else is installed or another election is called. The US government will still have to go with that. So as much as Tinibu and Tiku and Peter Obe don't like what happened, the US government will just have to deal with whoever is sitting in the office of President of Nigeria. Just before we wrap up, what do you make of the fact that the US is calling for justice for members of the council that were slain in Nigeria on Tuesday? Yes, they are very correct to call for justice. And like I said in my opening remarks, these are situations where you can clearly see that when a country like Nigeria, where Africa's most populous country, the most populous black nation in the world, is not having a functional government, it impacts on everybody. If it was in the UK or in the US that these gunmen attacked this convoy. As I'm speaking to you today, there will be helicopters in the air, there will be police on the ground, there will be sharpshooters, there will be all sorts of, they will be looking for these people until they find them. So in Nigeria, you now discover that, okay, this thing happened in Anambra. Those people that perpetrated this crime are still there in Anambra. And the presidency has, as usual, issued a statement, Commissioner of Police will issue a statement. You are not seeing anybody that is going after these people. The US has also issued, the White House has made it clear that no American was involved. Do you think if an American was involved that things would have been different? Of course. If a US citizen was involved, I would not be surprised if the US was sending Marines to take out those who perpetrated this incident. But the fact that they were consulate staff of the US, even if they are Nigerians, their employer is a US government. And I spread the US to stand up for these people who are working for them. It was their business that these people went to Anambra to go and conduct. And if they now happen to suffer this kind of brutal murder, then the US has to do much more. Of course, they can give Nigeria or offer Nigeria support in terms of what we need to do, but the perpetrators have to be found. And in Nigeria so far, especially in the last eight years, we have seen this kind of murders and nothing seems... It's as if there are governments within governments in Nigeria. There are people who, I mean, you see in Nigeria where bandits can seize Nigerians and hold them hostage in Nigeria, on Nigeria soil. And the security are unable to do anything about it. So the US government should not just say the people should be brought to justice. They need to also offer Nigeria some support. They need to do more. They probably need to do what they should have done or would have done if a US citizen was among those who were killed on Tuesday. Thank you so much, Mr. Nick Agole, for your time and insight this morning. Thank you and a very beautiful night's day to our viewers. Mr. Nick Agole, public affairs analysts joined us from the UK to take a look at the visa ban on some electoral offenders by the UK on Monday. You're still watching The Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. We'll take a break and come back to look at our second hot topic. Stay with us.