 Welcome back to the nonprofit show again and making that assumption you've been here before but if this is your first time, we are so glad that you found your way to us here at the nonprofit show. Today, we have been enjoying our green room chatter and looking forward to the conversation with David Fox, Estrin, and he joins us as partnerships director at Impala. And I believe that when I reached out to David it was because I saw something in a newsletter some something hit my inbox and I was like, I want to talk to this gentleman I want to know more about Impala what they're doing so he's here to talk to us about public data access and the social sector so stay with us he's going to do a brief introduction tells a little bit about his background and how he moved into the sector. But before we do that we want to remind you who we are if we haven't had the opportunity to meet you quite yet. So Julia Patrick hello to you, Julia here and serves as CEO of the American nonprofit Academy, and I'm Jared ransom your nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven group. Honored to serve alongside you Julia day in and day out as the co host, and to have the continued support from our amazing presenting sponsors. These companies have allowed us conversations like David for over 900 episodes it's been fantastic so thank you to bloomering American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University nonprofit thought leader, your part time controller staffing boutique nonprofit nerd as well as nonprofit tech talk. I really like to say their mission is your mission so whatever your nonprofit mission is they're here to help you and support you do more good so please do check them out and as I mentioned if you're curious about anything about your nonprofit you can find out more information for free on these area platform so you can download the app you can scan that QR code, and in just a couple of hours you'll get a notification that this show has been uploaded. You can also still find us on streaming broadcast as well as podcast platform so wherever you consume entertainment you can pretty much bet the nonprofit show is there. David curve ball but I want to ask you first and foremost are you a podcast listener and if so, if you have one that is like your go to. I am most definitely a podcast listener depends on the season but I am a sports fanatic and I can't help but listen to my local Miami heat basketball podcast to stay on how things are progressing or not for our team. Well that's fantastic I'm also a podcast listener start every day with something and typically like you nothing has to do with the nonprofit sector so again David Fox Estrin is here with us today partnerships director at Impala. Check out their website and Paula digital, but David I would love to welcome you ask you to share a little bit about yourself and then also tell us what Impala does. Well, thank you so so much for having us today. So a little bit about me I've been in the social impact sector for about a decade I've been on both sides of the game. Out of college I joined Accenture strategy was where I was a business strategy consultants but my secret dream job was to join our corporate philanthropy team and advise the company on its distribution of its philanthropy, but also to serve and nonprofit so a year in I landed there. That was awesome but then I have this plot and inspiration that I had to start my own nonprofit dedicated to countering hate and violence all around the world. All four of my grandparents are Holocaust survivors so it was important for me around 2015 2016 to make that pivot. So then I found myself on the whole other side of the equation needing to both do great work but also fundraise. So that's sort of what informs my background and it ultimately led me to Impala, which frankly if I had access to Impala maybe five years ago we'd be having a very different conversation. I'd be telling you about how I was able to dramatically raise tons of resources and still run the organization. It's really important I think there's so many nonprofits out there that don't ever get to live and see that next chapter of their maturity or their growth because fundraising is so so hard and the chips are really stacked against us which is what leads me to talk a little bit about Impala. Impala is a tech for good startup company that is making data accessible and actionable for all especially nonprofits who need that public data in a way that actually can inform and enhance their fundraising work and we do that in a couple of different ways. We created a product suite called Essentials which essentially if you're familiar with Candid's GuideStar and Foundation Directory online combine that into one offering so profiles that are free on any nonprofit or funder in the United States with really rich data and insights and there's no paywalls and it's available to anyone forever. So we broke the paywall saving anyone many many thousands of dollars or having to drive to a library. Although we love our libraries but I don't think you should have to drive there to access this data. And then we also created something called Ecosystems which allows you to evaluate any philanthropic landscape to see who are the funders the nonprofits what kind of grants are out there. And then finally a third product called Paths which allows you to map your point A to your point B so if you have a funder in mind how am I actually connected to them. So hopefully this is going to help change the game for lots of fundraisers out there. Wow. I love your origin story because you know I think it's really powerful David when you have been on the other side of the desk and to understand it's not tragically it's not good enough to have a good idea. You know if you can't navigate that cause selling as our friends at Fundraising Academy you know remind us you can't navigate your dreams and you're obviously your mission vision and values. So let's get into this and first help us understand what is that public data that nonprofits need and is it really public is it accessible like how do we look at this and why should we be looking at this. All right if we're talking about public data then we're talking about 990 forms and I have a love hate relationship with 90s both because I've had to submit them and prepare them. Also staring at them and trying to figure out how do I extract valuable actionable data about this and having to click in and download and find one after the other like we know that that data is available I could go to ProPublica and a couple of other platforms and find those find those PDFs but like how do I make something of this do I have to pay a consultant lots and lots of money though I love our consultants. You know can we get them focusing on higher value activities and I think this comes back to a truth or a vision of ours at Impala that this public data should be like a commodity right if you have it great. But really it's what you can do with it that is worthwhile to charge money for and that's what we are focusing on as a company it's why our essentials. Product suite it's free and always will be free let's give you the data in a reasonably presented way, but then we create fancier, you know premium products yeah we'll charge you a couple of dollars for that. But you know when we're thinking about a 990 there's a couple of things that I think nonprofits really want to focus in on. So let's take a step back. Let's say we're fundraising right we all need prospect lists and we need to turn those prospect lists into engagement lists right. So, at Impala we look at three different things that we think any fundraiser should be focused on three pillars of fundraising so to speak, and it's buttressed by public data. Not always accessible but public data. One is alignment. Does the funder support nonprofits like me my cause area where we're based can we check that box off. Number two, does the funder support grants in the sort of capacity range that I need, both in terms of the level of funding and the frequency is it a one and done or multi year. And then the third bucket is in relationship. Do we have a way in the door without that then one and two are nice to have but you know I'm still going to be struggling so can we access public data that allows us to answer those questions and then rank those fundraising across those funder prospects in a way that we can start to get to those nos and yeses or quickly specific data points for example like in the realm of alignment in our ecosystems product. You're able to search let's say, let's say I'm a mental health organization in Boston. I can actually see what percentage of a funder's giving portfolio is going to mental health in Boston. That's just in a couple of clicks in a few minutes I don't have to crunch a million nine nineties I mean you're not going to do that anyways probably. And then we can do that and rank 50 funders right on top of each other and see who's most focused. We can also click into and see all of the past grants that they've given. It's one thing and I know that this exists on other platforms right like I see all of the grants. Great, but what if there's 5000 grants. Am I going to go one by one. What if I know I'm starting a new program and I need $25,000. Right on in Pollock and click 25 to $50,000 and it's going to filter that list from maybe 5000 grants down to 150 or 200. Now you can go line by line and see if those grants make sense. And then the other thing I'll mention in this bucket is what we call multi year grantee percentage. We actually can see what percentage of the grantees in a funder's portfolio have a multi year relationship. Over 50% over 75%. I'm probably going to knock on that funder's door rather than the one who has a 10% multi year funding percentage right and then in relationship, being able to actually access LinkedIn profiles contact details. Things like that there's more but I'll pause. There's lots of data that we can swim in together. You are speaking my language and I will also witness to you and everyone watching and listening. Love hate for the 990s. Absolutely like how many times have I downloaded one flip through it like used to right print them off and now it's like that control F is one of my favorite buttons looking exactly for what I want to find. But to have you know a system to extrapolate this data in a way that we can be effective and efficient with our time because we all know right like time is of the essence for nonprofits and often. David I don't know if you see this and you know familiar with it. The development teams are the fundraising teams that they're not always very robust right unless you're higher education, we might be talking one person. So that's a lot of data to really, as you said, swim in. Yeah. Yeah, you're speaking I was just having a conversation with our team the other day we've been doing a lot of community conversations every data point every product every feature on Impala was built in partnership with funders and nonprofits in mind. Imagine like if there was something different what would we do dot dot dot that's what we're here to do. It's why really big funders are pulling back from the candidates of the world and kind of hopping into our sandbox and we're building and designing together. It's but it's to primarily address the problem that you mentioned. I mean funders, sorry nonprofits. I love them on bias towards them but they're kind of all over the place when it comes to development. It depends on what stage of maturity you're in. But like I said the deck is like the cards are not in your favor. So how do we flip that dynamic. And, you know, I think part of it is, let's say, number one, if I had any advice for anyone out there it's like do you have a goal do you know how much specifically you're fundraising for what's your revenue mix how much needs to come from individual donors foundations. You know from an earned revenue model like if I start a nonprofit tomorrow there will never be a day that I don't think about also a hybrid revenue model. Because I don't want to just be dependent on philanthropy because crazy things can happen in the world philanthropy can dry up, but a large untapped area is still truly the foundation realm it feels scary I know I was scared myself. So how do we make a for a for all those nonprofits and I'll say one more thing. And this relates to the public data. I think, you know, no brainer for everyone listening and watching who is a fundraiser. Make a list of your existing funders. See what their last contribution was and then hop into Impala and see what their median first, second and third year grant is it's a click away it's a free profile. And if your existing contribution that you're getting is lower than the median first second or third year grant, then you have to knock on your funders door and say hey could you give me 50,000 instead of 25,000 and oh by the way, if they say no it's like well let's take a look at your giving history, right, like hold their feet to the fire that's part of flipping the power dynamic worst case scenario they're going to say no but that's where you are anyways right. So having these conversations are critical and to have the data to drive those conversations in an educated manner right like that's really where where we're going. And for me, David the biggest way to increase dollars for organizations is simply to ask for more. Right, like, ask for more money. You know you talk about the process of using data being strategic strategic. Talk to us about data justice. Because I think that's a really interesting application of two words that we haven't been hearing that and so it teach us what that looks like to you. So it's a huge topic it's critical that we explore it and I'm glad that you're making space for it so I so I and we at Impala really really appreciate that. There's a couple of different facets to it let's just start with some fundamental fundamental truth that those who you know those who historically have had fewer access to resources tools etc. They tend to be left out of this game altogether right, you know, plan is really relationship driven you have to know someone to get in the door. So, if nonprofits that have typically been left out of the equation whether they're in rural areas or they represent or serve minority communities things like that. So how do they get in the game right so having access to tools like Impala and free resources, especially where they don't have to pay or go and commute to a library to access these tools that's a key part of it so one is one piece of it is data accessibility can I access the information I need that's essential related to not just my development work but if I look for example if you look at a profile on Impala. It becomes a key internal strategic tool right, you can show your board if you have one, all of your internal financial metrics I mean it's public data but it's it's presented in a way where we can compare our revenues and expenses our assets and liabilities are recent funders who started supporting us who's in who's out a list of all of our past grants, it allows us to be that much more strategic and set specific goals so we're giving folks a leg up in that way. So it fundamentally starts off with, do you have access to the data in the first place. The other piece of it that I think is important it relates to kind of this newer realm of trust based philanthropy I feel like I end up in conversations with funders where there's this debate between data driven philanthropy and trust based philanthropy understanding I think that they are mutually exclusive or at odds with each other but there really could be a synergy where, let's say a nonprofit will every nonprofit already has a profile on Impala. But what if those profiles were designed where there's enough data there already where a funder knows enough that they can begin the trust process. And so we're starting to see that right we've put together these profiles with that in mind. Where funders can start to evaluate whether that nonprofit would be a good fit and also one more piece about data justice is not putting it not putting the burden of the data provision on the nonprofits themselves they've got so much to do already. Profiles can just exist, and they talk about financials their people but also impact if we make that as lean and simple as possible, then it makes it that much easier for the nonprofits to focus on the work that that matters most. You know I don't see this often enough so I love that this is, I was, I would say like a big pillar for Impala. So kudos to the entire team for this. You know, I feel like in the nonprofit sector and I work have worked with a lot of small to mid size organizations, you know, lower budget, maybe under a million, a staff, maybe under five, you know, oftentimes the founders still involved, and still so many people, you know, leadership, as well as board David are shocked, how much information is out there and available to us. Yeah, I mean on Impala one of the things that's fun to take a look at if you're curious, you can go to any funder or nonprofit that submits a 990 and look at their people page and filter by last reported compensation. The data there, you know, it's just you know that's not that's not our primary purpose for why we're out there but for funders they want to do due diligence and see how folks are being paid, but that data that's out there. And there's a lot of other nooks and crannies that folks can find things that you wouldn't expect out there for sure. Good information. Well, let's move into, you know, how we can be good philanthropic citizens and how that works, because I'm really curious, you know, right now we have a variety of generations walking this earth. Fantastic. I would say a lot of our younger generations are very philanthropic they may actually also have capacity. And yet I still feel that a lot of our nonprofits. Excuse me are catering still to that older demographic so I'm just really curious you know how you and Impala really see good philanthropic citizenship and what's working. Definitely. It's a concept that we love to explore and I say it as often as I can in conversations with our funder community. Right, the idea of like leaning into being more transparent with your funding behavior the good news is sometimes funders are like wow I didn't realize this much information is out there on our funding behavior let alone they didn't know that they had a multi year funding percentage of 50% or another metric is average grantee reliance this is an advanced metric that shows it's a risk management metric which so which reveals what is how much of a nonprofits budget typically comes from that particular funder is a 10% of their budget or 50% of their budget. I want to know that like a lot of funders you know as much as we are sort of, you know, I said at the beginning of this call that sometimes nonprofit fundraisers are not as strategic as they can be philanthropists also are not as strategic as, as they could be which is a real lost opportunity but I think it all begins really with the principle of transparency and allowing nonprofits to know how you grant what you grant to, and whether they're likely to win a grant from you and so the good is the best way you know talk can be cheap but your past grant history is the most clear way to evaluate that and we already have that on Impala. So that's a really, really a good leg up for for nonprofits. The other thing I will share is, you know, we know that there's a data lag with the IRS bless their hearts at the IRS they're doing their best they need some more support. What we often encourage funders to do is to upload their most current 990s and then within 48 hours we update their profiles and then the nonprofits can search that data. It also serves the philanthropists interest as well because they could view their own portfolio in an intelligent way so I think how good philanthropic citizenship works is, you know, hopefully philanthropists do the right thing but we also create incentives where it's a win and that's part of what I think is different about Impala is, we've designed the platform for both sides of the sector in mind and when each side contributes a little bit more, and it's not hard to contribute. Everyone, everyone wins and so that we're going to continue with that sort of approach. The other thing I'll note is, let's say I was a key funder in the Boston area where I'm based. I can actually see on Impala on my profile who are the funders that I overlap with. So we might have based on 990 data, I might have 100 grantees that I share with another 12345 funders. Should we all have our own independent grant pipelines or could we have a collaboration discussion create a funder circle and create one philanthropic application process for all of those amazing nonprofits in Boston, whatever their criteria may be. So we're showing funders data that might create more opportunities for collaboration more efficiency and if funders are more efficient then hopefully nonprofits have less work to do. Oh, David I want more of that more of the collaboration grants you know I'm on many forums and when we talk about time and efficiency right and we talk about, well you have to jump through this hoop and oh by the way it's on fire and then you have to walk on glass and then you have to make a video which none of us are really videographers right. So I love this concept of the collaboration. Gosh, I would just love to see more of that. Yeah, and we're, go ahead. I gotta ask this question though, it seems to me that one of the mysteries of foundation work in in this country is this sense of secrecy, and that they don't necessarily step forward and serve in a transparent manner and maybe. And that's like a whole nother discussion but I'm really curious is, do you see funders saying wow yeah this is a good idea I can imagine that you have nonprofits saying oh my gosh yes please. But, but what is the reticence or do you think that the foundations are going to be moving more in this direction of transparency. Well skip, let's skip straight to the, I mean my favorite part of the answer is it's like, tough, either way the data is public and now this is like this is what I mean what we mean by, is it actually public. We exist to make it that much more public that much more accessible so folks do the right thing right it's just bringing sunlight to a sector that that does need it. Who are doing the right thing so let's honor let's celebrate them we have funders capacity building funders who we love. Some of whom have financed some of our partnerships to roll out our platform like for example, any nonprofit in Massachusetts or funder can access our premium platform for free for two years. Right, and that was funded by a handful of really amazing funders the bar foundation and the Boston Foundation. Those are great philanthropic citizens they get it they're making this data and they, they updated their profile there is transparent as can be they really are leaning into trust based philanthropy in combination with it in a data driven sort of way so those are the folks that we're always trying to look for. They're knocking themselves they're knocking on their doors we have funders who are willing to join us and host a webinar and share in Paula with their grantees again it's free. A lot of it is free. So they are performing and you know exhibiting behaviors that we're happy to to see for those that are a little bit more reticent. They'll come along eventually, but also like again the data is public so if someone reaches out and says, can you erase my profile it's like, no we can't. And so, maybe you should upload a more current 990 and represent your work, as you want to see it. So, or maybe design a different strategy if you don't like that data point. I think it's just it's time to kind of re rebalance the power dynamic and there's no way to do it then public information if it's presented effectively. If people can realize that this is out there. And that's another thing there's an educational gap here with people understanding what type of knowledge is out there, and how do you use it once you find it. And I'll say one thing about that really quick which is, we started a year ago exactly in October we launched with philanthropy Massachusetts a statewide funder network supported by the bar foundation and the Boston Foundation wonderful partnership, providing access to all these entities in the state of Massachusetts, we haven't done that much marketing like very little it's all been word of mouth and a year later. We have partnerships similar to our partnership in Massachusetts and wrote up with stakeholders in Rhode Island in Maine with the Jewish funders network which brought us national. We now have over 6000 users in over 44 states and 44 countries so things are starting to spread like wildfire we didn't anticipate it. But clearly, there's something like we are meeting a need that is has been largely unmet so we hope it continues. Well, I can't wait to get my hands on it. David as we wrap up I have to ask the AI question how is it Paula, leaning into embracing using AI. Is it using AI yet and if so what does that look like. Yeah, so one I'll say that we're not fans of saying you know, AI AI we're using it we're doing it blah blah blah. We're working towards it. We have an amazing team of Israeli and Ukrainian developers and designers who despite being based in war zones still continue to log on and build this amazing company and the products that our friends in the sector are using day in and day out. We've been doing some really exciting things on the AI front where imagine a scenario where you log into Impala for the first time and your part like your ideal prospect list is waiting for you it's scored it has contact details. Based on your past grant history and other funders giving history we're able to make recommendations that are actually really really intelligent. That's the direction that we're heading with with AI and I can tell you that we are actively we have team members that are building the models and learning a lot along the way so it is already incorporated in the platform to some extent, but that sort of magic day where it's coming in and it's just stops waiting for you were it's not that far off. Okay, yeah, I appreciate that because as you know that's a hot topic across all industries right now but David you've been a fantastic guest I want to encourage everyone to check out Impala Digital, see what David just shared with us. I can't wait to get my hands on it Julia I don't know about you but this is like these are the things that I love to spend my downtime in. Yeah, well these are the things that make the difference between those folks that wonder why they're doing and those folks that have a strategic direction to follow that they can measure themselves against and so you know I feel like this is one of those those tools and not only just the tool but the concept you gotta you gotta understand where you can be. I mean I see too many nonprofits 1.8 million registered in our country that say well we're good we're worthy we should get money and it likes no it doesn't work that way you can be doing the work of the angels but it you know that's that's not how this is is working and so to understand the relationship between the funder and the nonprofit is just I think a critical piece that unfortunately is often missing David Fox, Estrin Partnerships, Director at Impala, as Jared said check them out Impala.digital and you can learn more about their work it's just a fascinating website and you can see the reach of how they're going and where they're navigating. Hey everybody I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy I've been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared R. Ransom CEO of the Raven Group. Again we want to shout out a debt of gratitude to our partners. Most who have been with us from day one and now we're at three years plus 900 episodes so it's pretty remarkable thanks to Blumerang American Nonprofit Academy your part time controller nonprofit thought leader Fundraising Academy at National University Staffing Boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. Wow Jared okay I'm revved up I'm ready to go. I loved I loved this conversation. Yeah, David thank you for spending time with us today. If this is where Impala is after a year I can only imagine another year so congratulations to you the entire team truly. Thanks for joining us today thanks for all of you that joined us today so glad to have you here. Hope you'll come back and spend more time with us tomorrow and as we end every episode. We're going to state it again but we invite you encourage you remind you to please stay well so you can continue to do well. Thanks everyone. Thank you David.