 You're screwed up. Don't say anything. Let's just look at him. See how it takes some notice. You should get one, too. The zoom app has us now. I mean, Chase found that last night. Clearly, you've had the zoom upgrade. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm doing this. Remember, Tiger King. What is the setting to get that? You go down there to camera versus stop video. Hit that little arrow to take you right to it. And then you'll see filters. Go to video filters, this girl is out by the railroad track. You'll never get her now. Go to video filters. And one of these 18 year old kids like a little bit like Rocky Horror there. Oh, my Lord, Mark, studio effects, beta, like a spy. And I think I put you in prison, Mark. Two years ago. All right. You guys ready? Yeah, ready. There we go. I'm Scott Rouse, my body language expert and analyst. And I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation by language. And I created the number one online course, body language tactics with Greg Hartley. Chase. Hey, I'm Chase Hughes. I'm a behavioral expert in 20 years in the US military. I'm now a no more best selling author in body language and behavior. And I train intelligence agencies and persuasion and influence as well as the general public. Greg. Greg Hartley, I'm a former army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor. I've written a bunch of books on body language and behavior and put together this number one body language tactics.com course with Scott. I spend most of my time on Wall Street in corporate America today. Mark. I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language. I help people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility every time they speak, including some of the leaders of the G7. Excellent. All right. Well, today is part two of our debate breakdown where we talk about President Trump and Vice President Biden's body language, as well as Chris Wallace, the moderator. And Greg, I think you had something to say about some of the things we're going to talk about. Yeah, a couple of things. We, in the last time, people were concerned or confused that we did not play the video after every assessment. So what we'll do is we'll play the video one time. After that video is played one time, we'll cover both Biden and Trump or Trump and Biden, depending on which way we go. And then we'll play the video again. So don't think that we're missing video when that occurs. And the other one is, hey, guys, I would like to make a bet on who hates us the most this time. So it's always interesting to see how it plays out. Yeah, I think that was. OK, as we go through this, keep in mind, you're going to think if you're on the left, that we're on the right. And obviously, you're going to think we're on the right. We're on the left. And we've noticed that time and again, every time we touch politics by a promise show versus Switzerland, we don't care. We don't we're going right down the middle. And all we're doing here is telling you what we see. We're not taking anybody's side. We're telling you what we see in the behavior of the people that we're that we're watching. And that's what we're doing. We're telling you what we're seeing. So as you see this, we're not on anybody's side. We're right down the middle. No advocating. We're not advocating for either one of these guys. You're going to if we say the guy scratched his nose, it doesn't mean we think you shouldn't vote for him because he scratched his nose. We're telling you what we see. Right. OK. We good? Yeah. All right, well, let's take a look at the first video. And I believe it's President Trump. And let's talk about that. Well, I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right. So what are you? What are you saying? I'm willing to do anything. I want to see. Well, then do it, sir. Do it. Say it. Do you want to call them? What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. White supremacist and right. Like me to condemn. Proud boys and right. Proud boys stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem. This is a left side. All right. Greg, you want to go first? Sure. This one has a whole lot of stuff in it. This is Joe's attempt to slice off the right from Trump in the same way that Trump was trying to slice off the hard left from Biden. It's interesting here, regardless of which side of the equation you're on. This is what I would call the rapid fire approach and interrogation. If Chase or Scott and I were interrogating someone, we get in both ears. And you go at them and it causes firefly to rise. And you can see Trump starting to get frustrated in uncharacteristic fashion. I have often said Trump is a body language circus. And you don't see a lot of body language circus into in these clips we're looking at now. There's none of the goofy facial movements he makes or any of that. Maybe it's because he had covid and we didn't know it. But his body language is much lower key than usual. When he starts, there's this accusatory action when he starts talking back and starts to answer the question. You can see the sides of his mouth are drawn down, his lips get pursed and his scrutiny narrows in on Chris Wallace. He doesn't bother to look at Biden when he's answering the question. He clearly sees Wallace as a point of opposition in this discussion. And he's discounting Biden and pushing Biden away. He uses his left hand to push Biden away in fact. And you can hear Biden in the back saying, do it, say it. His palm comes up, his fingers are extended. If his palms were up and his fingers were open, I would think it's mercy and give me a break, but it isn't. It's go ahead, go ahead, whatever it is that you want to bring. And then he compromises with Wallace, interestingly enough. As you see those hands pushed out and he makes strong eye contact with Wallace, then he leans back with his chin up and out. And people who are feeling weak don't put their chin up and out. People who are feeling proud or those kinds of strong emotions put their chin out because they don't want to be punched there. Then he starts batoning with his head, who? Who do you want me to call out? And then they call out the name he wants. He doesn't say, you need to stop all this. And he fell short probably in most people's minds from that. He could have made a move here, but he did the same kind of thing that I think Biden did by avoiding that trap, whatever he felt was a trap. And then he says, but I tell you what, and he goes to full negative with his hand and he makes hard eye contact and shifts the message toward Biden. That's what I got, Chase. So we see this classic interruption technique. He's he's on message. He's saying, I want this to happen. And the moment Chris Wallace starts talking, you see the interruption gesture. You see, hold on, we'll get to that in a minute. So we're going to kind of place that there. And this chin thrust movement, as he's asking, you know, what do you want is accompanied by something called brachial opening or this these humorous bones coming away from the body. And this is something you see when people outside a bar are getting ready to fight. We expose the carotid artery. We expose the brachial artery underneath our biceps. And that's a challenge behavior, mostly in, I think, all primates, as far as I know. So we see a lot of that. And I think that's really cool that we can see that there's some challenge going on just from some little arm movements. And if you're in sales or jury selection or whatever you're doing, that is a warning sign that might be great for your case, might be bad for your case, depending on the circumstance. The great warning sign there. And he doesn't answer the question. He doesn't do what they're saying. And it sounds like two fourth graders bullying up on another kid. And granted, they were all out of out of whack there. And we see something here. I think he, you know, he's denounced all of these people many times in the past, dozens of times. But I think he doesn't do it here. And I'm sure there's going to be all kinds of stuff about this. But I think there's something called reactants at play. And reactants occurs when Biden and Wallace are telling him to do this, they're commanding him, telling him to do it, say it, say it. So reactants is what happens in humans. We feel like our freedom of choice is being threatened a little bit, just kind of pushed on the edge. And as an example of this, how many times are you been on social media before? How many times you've seen someone standing on the grass next to a sign that says, don't stand on the grass or grabbing a sign that says, don't touch the sign. Or if there's a restaurant somewhere in your city and they have two bathrooms, one of them says, please do not write on these walls. Thank you so much, the management. And the other bathroom sign says, don't you ever write on these fricking walls ever? Or I will come in here and kick your, you know, whatever, signed the management. What's going to happen to that second bathroom? Anybody lucky enough to have a Sharpie in their pocket when they're in there is going to tear it up. That is what reactants is. So when we feel like we're being persuaded, we feel like we're being influenced or commanded to do something, we tend to do that. And reactants is much higher in these alpha types and this personality type that we're seeing here with Trump. And that's the end of that college lecture. I apologize. I'll pass it to Mark. Yeah, lovely. OK, I think what we see here is throughout this debate, this is Trump on his back foot here. I think they succeed. Not that they've really conspired, I think, to work together. But ultimately, we do have a big stress test here. And certainly when I'm training politicians at this level, I do the exact same stress test, which is you get somebody speaking in both ears, often ideas which are opposite to each other and both of which are opposite to what somebody's trying to say. And the idea is, is you just blinker that off and you look down the camera and you hold your line. Well, he doesn't manage to do this because he becomes this pattern interrupt. He becomes compliant under this. And when they say, say, say, say, he says, OK, who do you want me to condemn? So he starts that compliance. So he's already toppled down a pretty bad route for him because a clear name is given to him. And he does two shoulder raises on stand back, stand by. So I don't know whether that's him feeling like he said the wrong thing or it's whether he doesn't mean it or he knows he said the wrong thing. I'm not sure we need to actually interview him about that and find out. But certainly he's not as comfortable as he might be about his response because he said, who do you want me to condemn? And it's fair to say it's not a very good condemnation. It would have been simpler just to say, I condemn, you know, proud boys. That would probably would have got him a certain distance. Here's what else I want to show you. Oh, by the way, we get a freeze response in him, which is why I think we see him on his biggest back foot. You'll see he freezes and he looks and he looks and he looks and there's no help for him. So that's when the compliance starts. A good indicator that he's under a lot of stress is that he's gripped the side of the lectern and he's moving himself about so much that you can see the microphone swinging from side to side on there. You'll notice the other times he's there and he isn't moving around so violently and you don't get that swing. So you can go through the debate, you know, take a look through the whole of the debate and you can see where he gets agitated, exercised, energized because this microphone swings around in order to stabilize himself by the end. He has to say, I tell you what, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what. And that's his way of reiterating the same line in order to get some kind of stability. So I think he's on his back foot here. We see the freeze response. We see him pattern interrupted. He's taken down an alley. He doesn't want to go. He's not happy with his answer, I would say. Yeah, a total win, I would say, for for Biden on this one, assisted by the the moderator. Who's next guy? OK, OK, sorry, I was I was wrapped up and marked there. OK, here's what I'm seeing. This is again, these these he's using or Trump is using these illustrators and regulators and they're huge, really big. And there's a couple of things he does that I found really interesting. When he first starts with his hands open, he's trying to get everybody calm down. He's it's he dawns on him that he's fighting. There is opponents not only Biden, but it's also Wallace as he's doing this. There's that dawns on him. He starts to go a bit of front. He's frustrated and just a little bit of anger pops out of there. Now, when he says he's going through here, and he says, I'm willing to do anything, I want peace. This is a really I'm a Piscopalian. So I know what this is. I see it every Sunday, you know, when they do, they say peace. That's what that's one of the go tos. And you'll see that quite often in in religious settings. So he's making this religious thing, which I think was loaded. I think he was ready to do that and planned. And so I said, here's what you do, man. You got me when you fire that one up, you give the old. He's like, yeah, brilliant. So I think that's why he did that. I think that's what they were seeing there. Then he says, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what he's again, he uses his in this case, his right hand as an regulator at the same time. It's an illustrator because he's trying to get Wallace to shut up while he's trying to get Biden to shut up so he can send in his loaded, his loaded answer. There's a loaded piece of information. And what this looks like to me, as I agree, I agree with Chase on this. It looks like it looks like Bruce Lee and a kung fu fight. These two, we take it on two people. He's having to shut one down and then hold the other one off as he does the spanner, the flip or whatever it is, then comes back and then. So I think it dawns on him that he's being attacked by two people at this point. I think this is where he goes, oh, no, this is what's happening because you see him looking back at both and then going and talking to Wallace and talking to Biden. Granted, the question they're asking, he really doesn't give an answer to that. But he's still fighting off two people here. And I think it is a pretty good job of it at holding in that personality type, holding in his temper, because that could have gone sideways for him really quickly. And we talked a lot about baseline on this show. Here's a great example of a baseline. Trump does this usually. He has elbows to his side when he's normally not animated. It's rare to see him get animated and his arms come away from his torso. And they do in this and in following clips that we're going to show. Yeah, I've never seen a freeze response from him. I can't think of one. I don't think I've seen a freeze response. Yeah. All right, we good. I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right. So what are you? What are you saying? I'm willing to do anything I want to see. Well, then do it, sir. Do it. Say it. Do you want to call him? What do you want to call him? Give me a name. Give me a name. White supremacist and right. What do you like me to condemn? White supremacist and right. Proud boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left, because this is not a right wing problem. His own left. This is a left wing. He panicked or he just looked at the stock market. One of the two, because guess what? A lot of people died and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, a lot quicker. So, Mr. Prouds, how did it? Did you use the word smart? So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State. You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me. Don't ever use that word. Oh, give me a break. Because you know what? There's nothing smart about you, Joe. OK, so Joe Biden in this one, we get the raised eyebrows right at the start, some kind of search for affirmation there. He really wants us to join in with him on this one. Then he got a hair in my mouth. Then it's all right, it's my hair. If we go to a lot of people died, a lot of people died and he's straight down the camera lens and that hush on died. That, for me, is as near to a TV evangelist, I think, as you can get. And so he's really laying on the emotion around this. And a pretty good job, really, because you need to get everybody in TV land to join in with the emotion with you and you need to signal it really strong with your face, with your words. And he does it really strong with that tonality. Now, obviously, if you're not his side of the agenda, then you're going to think it's too much. If you're a supporter of his, you're going to think it's just right. I think it is quite interesting that he goes for this. Again, kind of spiritual idea. Hillary did it in her, in one of her debates. She comes all in white. You know, he's got the white hair, he's got the white shirt, he's got the candy cane tie, he's got the kind of quite pristine, frilly handkerchief there. There is something quite religious about this. But then he gets sidelined there and, oh, give me a break. And it's small in the frame, but you can go back and look at it and you will see him sucking a lemon after that. Give me a break. That sour taste in his mouth doesn't like that attack there. You know, really for me, should have stayed in symmetry for much longer, but he easily complied to the moderator who tossed it over to Trump and he finished immediately. So the moderator is in good control here, maybe even too much control of Biden compared to Trump. That's what I got for you. Scott, what you got? All right, well, I'll talk about, I had to check off everything you're talking about. I got some of that, not all of it. So when Biden's listening, you also see, we see this a couple of times, he's classic, from the side, we see these classic expressions of disgust and contempt. And he's also, he's taken a hit. So he's grabbing the side of that podium, he's grabbing on tight. And we can see that as an adapter. I know adapters as Joe Navarro says, or anything, any repetitive behavior can be seen as a pacifying behavior. In this case, what we're dealing with is he's grab, he's hanging on to it. So that can be an adapter as well. So that's what I've got for him. So Greg, what do you got? Yeah, and Mark, we're almost exactly saw the same things. I mean, it's the holy warrior mindset that I have. And he's using one hand to start with and then he frames to your point to go symmetric and get their masterful use of low volume. And you can do this every day when you're in a sales call or you're testing something to see how it is, you lower your voice and watch people lean in. It means you have them. It works wonderfully and he does it through the TV. You can see that people are doing it. And then he gets onto something that you clearly can tell he has rehearsed and it's a canned remark. He's ready for this and he starts down the path. Then when Trump brings up Delaware State, which is significant because it's a historically black college or university, then you hear the little Teflon laugh to roll away from the stress. And that's a canned response from Joe. It's kind of his thing that he does. And then he says, I'll give me a break and I saw the same thing, contempt. Not a lot different than any of us, I think, because this is really, really easy to follow. I think you all can see exactly what we're seeing. Probably have different words for it, but Chase, what do you have? So we just talked about, sorry. What do you got? We just talked about reactance a second ago. Reactions is where someone's persuading us to do something and we know it and we resist. If a person is looking directly at you, there's even studies about this. I'm sorry, I don't have the name handy right now, but if you look up, eye contact makes people less likely to be susceptible to persuasion techniques. It's a real thing. So what we're seeing here is a canned response and someone's teaching him, you need to make eye contact, you need to elicit those emotions. So he's saying, people are gonna die. That's another thing that he's gonna say here. People are gonna die looking straight at the camera and the danger of this is that it looks like a technique. He doesn't look at the camera until he wants you to feel something. And then we as the audience, even a supporter or somebody who doesn't like him, we might think that seems a little artificial. If he became emotional, it's easier for us to do it. So the reason that I brought up reactance earlier is because if you want to avoid reactance, you prime someone to see something you want them to see later, which I did to you in this video to show you that that's how reactance works. You're more likely to accept something when we're primed and ready emotionally for it. And we see that, obviously a great point of that out that canned laugh. And I think that was absolutely a coach. I don't think it was Mark. I'm not totally sure. I haven't interviewed him yet. Not got the check if it was. So I think that was a coach. I think that was a coach saying, the best thing you can do to this guy, he's a bully, he's gonna interrupt you. And if you respond, you're gonna give him more credibility. So you just laugh it off. Just laugh it off. And I think that was a canned response because we don't see that when he's on the campaign trail and people are really pressing him hard. He's a go getter. He'll step forward, he'll come into the fight and he'll challenge people directly. And I think that was a piece of coaching there. That's all I got. Excellent. I agree with you, Chase. I know the study you're talking about and there's another study as well. I can't remember the name of it either because you know how you flip through those things. What they were talking about for the reason for the eye contact was when you're looking at someone and you're talking to them, that you're focusing on them and there's a specific part of your brain that's like I'm watching them. It has to deal with your fusiform gyrosin, mid-temperal gyrosin and your locus rillius. But as you're doing that, all those things are functioning in a different way than they function when you're not making eye contact with that person. So it opens up that other part of your brain and lets you think a little bit deeper into what's actually happening. I just read that like six months ago maybe and I should have kept it but I did not market or anything. Hard to keep up. Actually, we can throw it in the video description if you want, I'll send it. Scott, all that neurobiology that you know that you haven't been bringing up, bring that up because I think it's interesting so that people know which part of your brain is causing that to do what it does. I think it's powerful. I mean, the things that we talk about, my thing is stress. What does stress do to your body? We all bring a little bit of something to this and let's throw that in. I think it's invaluable because now if you're watching, you know that each of us comes at it from a different angle. We call this a science. It's based in science but there's a hell of a lot of art to what we do, stringing all these pieces together. Let me add a little bit about that laugh because I think what's happened in the coaching around that laugh because Hillary did the same. He's doing the same patterns as Hillary Clinton was doing. Laugh at Trump. I think they have assessed Trump's character, personality type, as one that doesn't deal well with humiliation. And I think what they're trying to do is set up the laughter, the humiliating laughter around him. Also the use of ideas of clowns and being laughed at because I think they think it's gonna trigger him. I don't think it triggers him as well as they hope it will. So I read today that Joe Biden said that when he said clown, he didn't intentionally do it, that he was on his heels, that he had gotten to him and shaken him up. So who knows whether that's true or not. The one thing that is interesting here is what I always call the flaming bag of, didn't work because the, don't use the word smart with me, it did shake him up but he didn't do what he usually does. He usually gets people to get, when Trump throws the bag, people stomp on it frantically and look stupid. And it worked. He held off. He was able to sit and go, no, by using whatever technique they're giving him. Excellent. And Greg, to go back to the other part about the neurological part, sometimes I tend to stay away from that because it's horrifically boring. I mean, when I hear somebody talking about that, I was like, oh, so I'll start adding that in, but I won't go deep. I think there are good places for it when somebody understands, hey, this is a biological thing. This is not the guy doing something intentionally. A lot of what we're looking for are cues that are caused by stress or caused by a portion of the brain reacting to stimulus. And if people know that, then it's helpful. So it also helps people feel less like they're freak when they do something odd because they realize there's neurobiology causing it. Yeah. Okay, cool. Right, be good. Okay, well, I'll go first on this one. After again, after I spit my gum out. All right. When Trump says, did you use the word smart? This is when he checks his notes because he's getting ready to deliver a good sting. And when he does, then he delivers it after he looks down and makes sure everything's ready. He sets the tone for that and bang, there he goes with it. And then when he said, you didn't go to Delaware State, that his left arm comes flying out, almost like he's smacking him with that, which he is as you look at his opponent in a debate situation. Then his excitement, I think he's trying to, some people say, adapters again are anything you do that's a repetitive movement or motion that helps pacify you. It's a Joe Navarro. And what we're seeing here is when his arms start coming up to the side, they're almost flapping or flailing because he's either so excited he's done that at the same time he's trying to keep his excitement in. And those are acting actually as pacifiers or adapters to help keep his excitement in check, I guess. Then in the power movie does here, as he's talking to, he's smacking Biden, I almost said, Bowden, as he's smacking Biden, he turns his torso and everything, but he doesn't look at him when he's talking to him. Throughout this whole piece here, he looks at him about a third of the time, if that much, then when he looks at him. And when he does, his eyes just kick off for a minute, I guess to make sure he's still there. And then he just turns his torso toward him. It's a belittling move that he's doing is almost dismissive of him. So it's something you do when you really wanna, like Greg was saying, throw in a bag of poop, man, that is, that's one that's on fire right there. And that's what triggers Biden to make those facial expressions we talked about earlier. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so very much the same, these wings, you can literally see underneath through them. So there's a lot of space being created there. Often you'll see this gesture when people put their hands on their hips and that's the, I'm bigger than you thought I was, gesture, and it broadens the chest area. In this particular case, he's opening up these vulnerable areas here. I think he's feeling very positive, very proud of himself that he's been actually given a gift here because Biden throws down a key word for Trump. Smart is one of the things that comes up again and again and again for Trump. I'm smart, they're smart. I've got the smartest people. It's a classic for him. And if I were advising Biden, I would have said, whatever you do, don't use the word smart because you're treading on his territory essentially and it will be a gift for him to pick that up and start, see how repetitively he uses that as he gains control of it. We see this often in debates where somebody puts down a metaphor and the metaphor is quite successful and then the opponent will pick up the metaphor and destroy the metaphor. So in our previous session, I think we talked about Trump talking about insulin and water, likening the simile of it's like water. And what Biden didn't do was then pick up that metaphor, that simile and deconstruct it and go, he could have said something like, yeah, it's so like water, it's just running through your fingers and disappearing. What he does is laugh at the simile or the metaphor and the laughter isn't a good tactic. Be much smarter to do the word play, take the simile, take the metaphor, deconstruct it and throw it back as something else, way more intelligent, way smarter. That's what I've got on that one. Chase, what do you got? We see some great stuff in here. I think, I absolutely believe that Trump was waiting for the word smart. I think that was a key word that he had. I think this whole thing was rehearsed. I think he had some bullet points on there like forgot college, not smart or something like that. Just easy to read real quick. And I think he's just waiting for that word and we see that elbow go out. There's another time you can look at this, Obama's got a famous speech where someone from the crowd yells out, you lie really loud. When this happens, we see a little bit of that arm movement when it happens, then he kind of brings himself back under control. This is commonly referred to as a joust, an elbow joust gesture. And it's kind of a concealed anger. So there's a little bit of a, I wish I could punch you in the face hidden behind that. So we see a lot of that. His arms are out more than ever. So this is the animal extending, exposing arteries, the peacocks feathers coming out, getting ready for the fight, making ourselves bigger, which is great. We see Biden, I think he could have done a much better job of responding to this. And I think exactly what Mark said, take the words that he's saying and then show them, bring the technique that Trump is using into the light where everyone can see it. If you name it, you claim it. Someone's squeezing your hand too hard and you say, wow, that is a really firm handshake. You are squeezing really hard. And you're saying the name of the technique, the moment you say it, it takes the power out of the technique. And I think that would really have served Biden a lot well to do better in the debate. Trump has a thing here that he uses as a sledgehammer and that is the word, Joe throughout the debate. Any time that he is really digging into this guy, it's just like a drill sergeant or a middle school bully would do to somebody. Did you say that, Eddie? Did you really say that, Eddie? Just saying that little name again over and over. And I think it's also designed to help people see him as a regular guy. It's got Chris Wallace saying Mr. Vice President all the time and he continues to go back and say, Joe. In a paragraph, there's one time throughout the debate where he said Joe 11 times in one paragraph when he's saying, are you gonna pack the court? And he keeps using that as a humor. That's all I got. I'll pass it over to you, Greg. Yeah, I'm on the same page as most of what you guys have said. He says, did you use the word smart in a very accusatory fashion? He's doing what I call podium surfing. He's holding and doing this because he wants to do something with his hands. And the first time we saw that was back in a speech he delivered a few months ago. Usually his hands are doing this and he's making faces and all that kind of thing. You don't see all that by language. Very contained, very stable, much more stately than I expect from him. I usually expect to see a circus of movement. He throws a flaming bag with low energy, not his usual. He would have said smart much more aggressively. And he does exactly what you saw, Scott. What I noticed a lot is no eye contact, no eye contact. Down left internal conversation is he's thinking about exactly the right words as he's going until he says, don't ever use that word with me again. And he makes riveting eye contact to drive that nail home. And that was it. For me, you guys covered everything else. And I think that locked it down very nicely. That last eye contact shows you what he's thinking. The flaming bag didn't have as much effect. But I do think that in the process, he's caused Joe to laugh. He's caused Vice President Biden, Joe, whatever you want to call him to laugh so much that it's off-putting for a segment of people. I think that can backfire too. In the same way that Trump's bullying and aggression can backfire, his laughing and nervous laughter can backfire. I did a TV spot a little while ago and the producer wanted to know, why is he laughing all the time? I said, well, it's just what he does. It's part of it. And that was more annoying to her than Trump being bullish. So to reach his own. I want to pick up there on what you were saying there, Chase, about the use of the word Joe. But on the other hand, that I don't think Biden ever calls the president, the president, or Donald, or Mr. Trump, or President Trump, that he does. He does, not in this interchange, but he calls him Donald. He calls him president. Okay. Yeah, he does, yeah. Throughout the thing, he calls him. Military, yeah. Very few times. Yeah, Chase, you're freezing tonight from hand movement, so it is your internet. It could be the orange and blue pen. Okay, we good? Yeah. All right, great. No, the answer to the question is no. Ukraine. No, sir. With a billion dollars, if you're not doing it, you're going to have true. Gentlemen, I hate to raise my voice, but I see it seems to be, why shouldn't I be different than the two of you? So here's the deal. That's a good point. We have six segments. We have ended that segment. Okay, ready? Yeah. No. Martin needs a mustache. All right, Chase, you want to go first? Sure. And this, I think it's hilarious that we see a legitimate pouty face from Trump when he gets told what to do. But right afterwards, we see a full body postural bump, reasserting that dominance, reasserting the height and the power that he's got on stage. I thought that was fabulous. I'll just go on Chris Wallace really quick. A, shouldn't have been positioned way below. That's like back in the day when the pharmacist or the chemist was like four feet above you. And you had to go to the counter and you're looking up at somebody to get your prescriptions. Yeah, that's kind of what that reminded me of, that debate. I'm not sure why he set it up like that's a little weird. Chris should have stood up out of his chair. He would have reasserted control and he should have used the guy's names. He should have used the names. If he really wanted to do it, he could do the old parent technique because that's what the heck he was at this moment. He could have used the parent technique of saying both of their first and last names. A, it would have that parent effect and B, both of them are highly trained to jump in to I'm being introduced mode when the moderator or someone with a microphone says their first and last name out loud. Think he would have gained instant control out of that. I'll pass it to you, Scott. Okay, here's what I'm seeing. When Trump stood up and he felt threatened, you're right, we're seeing all those things. But then he does that, he gets really stiff and stands up and you see his butt go out through the back right there. I mean, that's about as stiff as you can possibly get. He delivers information that he knows is important. However, this is where, again, you can look at this and say there's something up here because, and I'm coming right down the middle, I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. At this point, Trump brings up the part where Biden was questioned by the media on something he possibly did that wasn't the right thing to do. That was illegal. And then as Wallace tries to shut him down, shut Trump down, you see, you see this is when actually Biden goes on, he shuts up. But then Trump comes on strong, keeps coming on strong. He's trying to fight his way through that and can't quite get through, so he hushes. And from what Chase has said so far that covers a lot of stuff I was gonna cover. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so this is where I think Trump actually feels like he's being cheated and he gets frustrated and you can see it. He starts off with a holy warrior kind of pose and he starts driving his message with his right hand and he's moving his hand like a priest. Remember, I said, Biden is more like an evangelist and Trump is more like the orthodox or Episcopal priest. He's doing his hand movement much different. He's got commanding message and driving his point as he is trying to get Chris Wallace to allow him to make a point. You see his hand going down. His arms spread wide in a very uncharacteristic Trump move. In one of those honest displays of what he's thinking, his body is like, come on, man, you can see it. His arms are out. It's one of the hands are down, which is a defeat. That is defeat, that's frustration that's trying to win. Whether you like his position or not, he certainly is feeling that his hands are back and his jaw is forward and his brow is down as he is showing frustration. Then he calms down, he raises his finger in a point of order almost and says, he's on tape, trying to get Wallace to listen. When he doesn't, then he goes back to that surrender thing. His palms drop, his elbows are back and as big as he is with his arms spread out, he even looks much larger. But it's clearly a message of frustration and defeat. That's what I have. Martin. Yeah, so let me pick up on that gesture. If you go and watch a soccer match, an English soccer match, football, we call it, and you find a point in that match where somebody gets fouled but the player just dropped, he's acting, yeah? And the referee holds up the red card, which means the player who fouled him, they're going off. But it was a bad call that it's just an actor. You will see the player drop their hands down by their sides into what I would call the grotesque plane. Their palms will be out and their joints will lock out just as you see with Trump. And it's that that's not fair referee. I just got misjudged. It's the signal of, you've just misjudged me. Yeah, and I want everybody to see how I've been misjudged. Now he calls for the referee to go, you've misjudged this, he's on tape. You've misjudged this. The referee doesn't give him anything back. You see him turtle in and then stick his chin out in that pout that I think that Chase was talking about. And it is the upset player walking off with the red card that had been red carded. So, I hate this game. No, not fair, not fair. So beautiful display there. And I don't think we often see Trump turtling. I don't see him turtling a whole bunch and this is an example of it. We do see him do the lower jaw out. Reminds me of that character that, that comedian, it was men on the moon. Andy Kaufman. Andy Kaufman. And what was the character, the club singer character? Oh, man, I can't remember that. Reminds me of that. Reminds me of that type when he sticks his chin out. I think the reason for the sticking of the chin out is often he'll go into profile and do that. It's to show a large jaw, it's to produce a large jaw just because we know that higher levels of testosterone produce larger bone growth. If you've got large levels of testosterone, you'll have a bigger jaw. Therefore, you'll be less averse to risk. You won't see so much risk in the world. If somebody has a big jaw, it's a good bet they will be more aggressive. If I don't have a big jaw, I'll just make one. And then that might be scare you off. We see Trump do that, that move quite a lot. Why should I grab the screenshot of that? Did you get one, Chase? No, we got a recording. You can always go back and take it out. You know what I was really surprised to see, Mark, was how compliant Biden was with the authority or the perceived authority of the moderator. And in that clip, we saw a great example of that. We saw Biden just instantly stop, like when the kids are all screwing around while the teacher's out of the room for like 40 seconds and then the door opens back up again, Biden's done. And some people, if I was on Biden's side, I would call it respectful. And if I wasn't on Biden's side, some people are gonna say, oh, he's just cowering to this other person. Yeah, I think it's gentlemanly behavior in the end. Yeah, I mean, I think if I look at Biden's body language in this, I see him locked down on the lectern. Again, he's locked out his... So he's holding himself down and he's keeping himself under control, I think at that point. I think you're right. It is like, I'm not gonna join in with this. I'm gonna lock myself down now. Gentlemanly behavior, I'm gonna... But yes, to some it could look compliant, I think. Yeah, I think he took a gut punch there. So he's hanging on as Trump comes in and ducks with that punch and hits him in the gut. I think that's what we're seeing. That's why he tightens up there again, because he doesn't move after that. He gets really quiet and he just focuses on Wallace because he doesn't wanna give any attention over there. He's trying to get as much attention off of what he's saying and get it back to Wallace because it's an important piece of information that he's trying to unleash at that point or sling. When people that fly or flight, that's a moderated freeze is what it is. When they hold and grip and stand, that's fly or flight to me. I look for that in people because I'm looking for the opportunity. And his word pattern changes and he says it did, that absolutely did not happen. Interesting because he says in other places, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't. And we all, all the interrogators here go, do I smell blood? And we would chase him if he said that in a normal conversation. So it's outside of some normal pattern for him. And he shows some disgust. So just so what Greg's talking about here, if I can unpack that really quick for you, what Greg is mentioning here is something that all of us call non-contractions or non-contracted denial. If you want to get really technical about the language, it's somebody saying, I didn't do that or I did not do that. If you go and read the technical manual for your dishwasher or your microwave, it has no contractions in it. So our brain kind of defaults to the state where it says, okay, I'm going to start speaking like all the technical language that I've heard in the past. It's more believable. And for some reason, we unconsciously default to speaking that way. And in many other ways that are in tech manuals, like we leave out more pronouns. There's no pronouns. Well, there's hardly any pronouns in a tech manual. So that's one of those things our brain kind of defaults to. Chase, to add to that, I misquoted, he says, that is absolutely not true. So it's not just that isn't true. He also inserts a qualifier in the middle of is not. So we would usually go after someone who does that because as you said, the more technical it sounds, the more holy it sounds, the less likely it is to be true. Often. I said to you last time we were talking, pardon me, one second, the more complex a sentence is, the less likely it's true. But more complicated, more complicated. Yeah. And another thing Chase to add to what you're talking about or all you guys are talking about, when we deal with contractions, a lot of times you'll see someone and you guys have seen this already, where they're sitting there and they're waiting to come in and you're watching them on and they're going, no, I did not. No, I have not. And what they're doing is when they, did you light that car on fire that caught the house on fire, that killed whoever was in there? Did you do that? No, I did not. Because they've been thinking about that answer. And that's the way it sounds in their head. They're saying, no, I did not. When they asked me that, I'm gonna say, no, I did not. You can see these on interrogations in, on 48, what is it, the first 48 or something. I think I saw it on there once as well. I was like, ah, there, but you'll see that happening and they'll go through what they're gonna say and no, I did not. Yes, I have. No, I didn't do that. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, I did. They won't, they won't contract. No, no, I didn't. You know, not, it'll be, no, I didn't. You know, that's when you went here and no, it wasn't me. It didn't do it. No, no, I did not. And it's not always an indicator of a lie, but it's always an indicator it needs more. Something's up. Attention. Sure. And I mean, just in the phrase, I did not have sexual relations with that woman. There are five linguistic deception indicators. My favorite. My favorite. Tell what those are, Chase. Go through that, that's important. Sure. This may be a little expanded edition. So I did not. This is our first non-contracted denial. So then he says, have sexual relations. This is called psychological softening or severity softening. Instead of saying sex or any other word to describe sex, he says sexual relations. Second, at the beginning of this, he is doing something called a hushing, which is where we bring our hand or something up to cover our mouth. Even if we're scratching our nose, there's an impulse we all carry from childhood. We don't grow out of it to cover our mouth when we're deceptive. When you imagine a kid saying the F-bomb in front of their parents for the first time on accident, the first reaction is to kind of reach up and cover the mouth. So we have that. And the other one linguistically is, he says that woman, there's a long pause and he corrects himself and then says Miss Lewinsky. So when we say that woman instead of Monica Lewinsky or instead of Monica Lewinsky, that's something also called severity softening or psychological distancing there, where guilty suspects in the interrogation room are less likely to use a suspect's name. They're more likely to say he, her, she, them, they, and use more broad, non-descript pronouns. Interesting for me, Chase. I always thought he was just making sure he qualified witch woman to make sure if it came up again. He could do something different. Let me give everybody a bit of, let me give you at home a bit of coaching around this. When you get asked at customs and excise, do you have anything to declare? The answer is no, not no, I do not. Right, exactly. Me, no, nothing. Just no, just no. Yeah, yeah, because that's fact. So we've all trained for that. We've all trained people in saying in what to look for, that's one thing you look for, talking too much, man, look out. Okay, so remember we had a contest that if you showed us to your social media world and hashtagged us, then you were in with the opportunity of being chosen to come in the green room with us before we make our show and be there with us afterwards. So we're gonna make that draw, we're gonna choose that person next week. So next week we will tell you if you have won, so get ready. Excellent. Now don't forget, you wanna subscribe. So all you have to do is hit the subscribe button down there and then hit the little bell so it tells you when something, we have a new video comes out which they come out every Thursday. Sometimes they come out on Wednesdays if I can get them out quickly enough. Hopefully this will come out on a Wednesday. So if you wanna watch what we're doing, if you're subscribed, then you'll know early on Wednesday. If not, we'll see you on Thursday then. All right, we good? Yeah. All right, see you next time. Finish in technology. So... That's what they do guys, just technology, yeah. Get you one. Come on, get you one, Chase. I'm exploring the full extent of the technology. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Let's see if I can take that off. Get with the last mark. Oh, yeah. That is genius. How are you doing that? Going to studio effects beta. That makes me... I'm Chris Hansen. Yeah, oh my God. What are you using? You gotta leave that on, Greg. You gotta leave that, man. That's awesome. That's awesome. Hey, guys. What the guy, if you go by the guy we interviewed. Go to video filters. The girl is out by the railroad track. You'll never get her now. Go to video filters. And one of these 18-year-old kids came over. Look at Mark. You're like a little bit like Rocky Horror there. Oh my Lord, Mark. Studio effects beta. Look at Mark. He's like a spy. I think I put you in prison, Mark. Two years ago.