 What's up? What's up? What's up? I'm Brandon Sean and I'm Corey and we're back with episode number 20 of No Labels Necessary podcast. Now why no labels necessary? Because artist, content creator, entrepreneur today, everybody's a multi hyphenate. So just get rid of the labels. They're not necessary and you can catch us on every Tuesday, Thursday, Apple Music Spotify here on YouTube, talking about just that, the intersection of music culture and money from the perspective of artists and content creators. So before we get our first topic today, got a touch on something that, hey, we would much so appreciate from you guys. We really appreciate the support so far, but we got a big goal to share. One day we want to get to a million subscribers on this platform and we're going to do everything we can to continue to improve the content. But our next goal is just 150,000 subscribers. It's 25 K away. So we know many of y'all appreciate that. But what we can ask of y'all is don't let it be an underground podcast. Share it with your friends. Share it with your peoples because the more subscribers, the more views we get, the better guests that we're going to be able to get as we continue to grow and start to bring in guests, the conversations, the investments and even the deep dives into information that we can't afford to put out there in the way we want to put out there for y'all yet is all going to come. So help us get to 150 K. We're starting where we're at 124 now 124. So yeah, we're so close, but we're so far away. That's our goal. Now, with that being said, right, hit that subscribe button. You know, maybe you're not subscribing somehow you got here. But the first topic is a beautiful topic today. By none other than our guy, Pith Marty. Now, how many times did you post a piece of content? And promote your song in that content? How many times? All right. Because I know sometimes y'all say, yo, I don't know how many times I should post. I've been posting too much. Well, we have a great first hand experience to share with y'all from Pith Marty and we have some other case studies for y'all. Check this out, repost your videos. I cannot stress that enough. It will literally change your life. A lot of y'all know me for this video. That went viral in 2021, but I posted that video three times before that happened. First time I posted on Instagram, it capped at like 15,000 views. But I'm like, nah, that's not enough. This is mad important. Let me put it on TikTok. Put it on TikTok. It got like 90,000 views. I'm like, I bet. Cool. Now people are recognizing it, but something told me, nah, post it again. 4.5 million views on TikTok. 6 million views on Instagram completely changed my life. If you believe that you're sitting on gold, keep promoting it. Keep posting it. Sometimes it's the algorithm. Sometimes it's just the way culture is set up at the time that you post it. There's so many factors that go into why a video doesn't do well. But if you know that that video is fired, post it again. If I didn't post that video again, I would not be here. Great advice. Great advice. Great advice, great advice. Now, before we even get into like deep diving or adding any additional perspective, let's just go to our examples. All right. Now, our client, Simone Talise, all right. You remember, there's a beautiful example of this, and we covered it on the agency page. Right. Now, let's just read it headline or headline. This artist changed one thing and blew up her TikTok, right? This past month, Simone Talise started promoting her song Intentions by dropping TikToks based around her music video. After gathering thousands of views, she decided to change one detail that became vital to her blowing up on TikTok. Can you guess what it could be? Now, if you look at this post, right? This is her video. POV, you just found your favorite underground R&B artist and not got about a thousand views. She changed that headline and she changed it to, did she just create the crazy bitch anthem of the summer and did 672,000 views? Big difference. Yeah. Big difference. Now, because we were there for this, I'm going to say, look, we see this 672,000 views, but she actually did more variations than just these two. Yeah, bro. Right? Yeah. She posted it like at least some of it was on like 40 and 50 times before. Ridiculous. It was maybe 10 times before that one clicked. And then she posted like 20 more times after. And then she probably posted like 20 more times before. And then they went viral in some other ways. Yeah. Like she had a couple of my newly viral moments. This was the biggest one, but I mean, she had other ones that maybe hit like 20, 30K, you know what I'm saying? 50K, you know, like an 8K, 5K here or there. And I actually think she's still using that clip. Like I think every now and again, she'll like throw it back on there with a different headline on it just to kind of fish up, you know, see what happens. That's the beautiful thing about this, man. Like I think people get so caught up thinking like, yo, should I post this again? Are people going to get tired of seeing this song or whatever it is? But if you've only gotten a thousand views, you know, people ain't really seen it like that. Yeah, exactly, bro. And like Piff said, if you believe in this, then keep pushing, keep pushing. Ten times before she got to this headline, she continued to experiment with the headline and she also used this one. When she found out this work, she posed this exact clip a couple more times. I remember seeing that, but she also say, yo, shoot, one headline change can make that big of a difference. Then maybe I should go crazy and figure out another headline and see if we can get something bigger. But literally we're talking about one thousand to six hundred and seventy two thousand views. Now another honorable mention Gibson. Now you don't know Gibson. Gibson hit me up in like the DMs, but he saw that post, right? And when he saw that post, he went and did the exact same thing. Okay. Right. He went and changed his headline. Now I'm going to read off the growth that he saw between different headlines and formats. This video that I'm playing right now did 394 views. You see it has 33 likes. Now he switched it up and did 28 K views. He switched it up again and did nine K views, switched it up again and did 63,000 views. All right. Then he did 70,000 views and then he did 63,000 views again. But again, this might not be hundreds of thousands. However, when you talk about he only got 394 on that first one. Yeah. All right. And now he's gotten about tens of thousands of views just changing the format a little bit because he didn't really change. Well, no, he did add a headline. Let's go to the current version, the current highest version. No, that actually isn't the highest version. I don't think it might be, but this one did very well. Obviously you throw the gunner situation in there, the young thug, which Charleston like Charleston white. This is this is actually really beautiful because it ties in to what what Piff Marty said culture, culture, exactly things change up a little bit. Now a moment happens where your song is relevant. The name of this song is like snitching or no snitching, by the way, and like he marketed as like a snitching anthem or something, whatever. So now you have a moment in culture where, oh, the gunner snitch on thug Charleston white like you said, obviously he had all these snitch videos that makes a big difference. So maybe culture isn't ready for your song. Hopefully culture didn't pass, but even if something passed, there's probably another another moment that'll come, let alone the algorithm and other different nuances. So man, how many times should you repost? Should you repost if your song is that song? You really feel like this is one and it didn't really do what you thought it might not be over. Like for real, yeah, post again. Yeah, the culture one is interesting too, because that's such a hard thing to quantify. And it's such a hard thing to get clients to understand because I don't know if you remember, we had this one campaign, like two years ago. And it was a not exactly this, but it was an influencer campaign. You know, influencer campaigns were testing out different headlines, reusing the same clip. And I remember we had the guy, he had a line. The song was like something about like, you were raps before I hang with more snakes or some shit. Yeah. And when the line came out, it was when the world was crucifying 6ix9ine for the whole snitch thing. Yes, bro. Exactly. I know exactly who you talking about. I remember that moment. Yeah. And that shit went viral because everybody assumed he was talking about 6ix9ine. And then it wasn't right. And then the artist text, who on the move on it, maybe like two weeks later, he's like, I got the budget to keep it going. And we use that same headline, but in that two weeks, 6ix9ine kind of would start going his apology to it right. He started doing some anthics to win people back over and the cultural landscape has shifted now. Whereas like the last post, there were thousands of people like agreeing with him and fucking winning for, you know, saying this and 6ix9ine. Yeah. The ties completely changed. And everyone in the comments, I always think it's hey, you know, same blah, blah. He wish he could be 6ix9ine. It was like, it was so interesting to see. It's like, man, bro, just in just in a two week time span, everyone's opinion on the whole situation just flip and it's having his negative impact on the campaign. And I've even talked to artists in like our boot camp before where, you know, some will come in and say things like, hey, you know, you guys use this. I don't know, cover challenge as an example, but it's not working for me. And then I was like, well, yeah, when we made that, you know, ticks out love covers. And then you came at a time where they're sick of it, not sound like necessarily now they're sick of it, but like cultural interests change, right? And like it's very possible that you see something you hop on it by the time you put it out. We're tired of it as consumer based and vice versa. You see something put it out and it hits right as we're starting to care about it. Right. And then you kind of like latch on to the moment. So I like that he mentioned culture because that's always the hardest one to quantify. It is that perfect example. Also on what you said was 2020. Everybody was dancing on tiktok. Yep. 2021 and beyond. And we tired of that. Exactly. But no more dances unless that's really going to hit or the song really going to hit. Yeah. And also the thing always always argue with artists about with the reposting thing is one you spend all this time and effort into it to post it once and it get like a hundred views, right? Couple hundred views when in reality you have nothing to lose by trying to get it to do better. There are some platforms, right? Like an Instagram or YouTube where that worry of reposting something I think is legit because the platform typically is like a one take platform, right? But if you're creative enough, you can you can rework it in different ways to get it back out there, but something like tiktok specifically but nobody cares because most of your people are probably coming from the for you page. So these are people that are just sending you for the very first time. They don't even know that you posted this clip 20 times over and they go to your page and you wanted that point because you interested them enough to get them to even care to go check that out, right? So it's like you really have nothing to lose. You put six hours into a piece of content to post it once and get a hundred views. You know what I'm saying? Like crazy, but what when it's like hey like Simone, hey man, I spent all this time energy on this music video. I don't know how much money she spent, but you know, let's let's say let's say three thousand dollars, right? Yeah. And so it's like, man, I could have posted three clips from this music video. You know what I'm saying? And you know, that been the work there, but I posted shit hella times and got a bigger return on my investment that I would have initially gotten with my original strategy, right? And that to me makes so much sense for artists, a majority of artists that aren't like popping, right? It's like maybe a big artist couldn't get away with this, but everyone below like a six go to a hundred percent. So perfect. Glad you said this. And I mean, this whole topic goes right into a discussion that was in brand man network. Right now for those of y'all who don't know what brand man network is. It's our free space. Got courses. You think you like the podcast? If you talk about step by step information, they drive you where you need to go. So you can just reference. We have free courses, but we also have this space where people can talk and we give a lot of advice and you talk with our team personally. So the question was, am I draining my audience? Right? Am I draining my audience as an artist? And Eddie Harp shout out to you. Said I know for me personally, I've always been worried that I was draining my audience by putting out content that feels rehashed or not original or varied enough. Remember that it takes more than six to eight exposures to your song or content before someone takes the chance to listen with the way algorithms work, especially with short term content. Some people might not get to see it until you post the 10th or 20th variation of promo for the same song. Be patient and remember the long game. You're creating a world and lore for new fans to step into and immerse themselves in. Man, beautiful Eddie beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. He's touched on so many things here. And I want to just break down the different elements of it. Right. So let's start here. At this point, he says, he says, remember that it takes more than six to eight exposure to your song or content before someone takes a chance to listen. Yeah. Right. And remember when I first saw this post, I was like, yeah, it's crazy because that goes along that same statistic that you get for sales calls, making a sales call six to eight points of contact before you actually have true contact when they'll answer the phone or they give you reply on email. So they might see you in an ad. They might see that you tweet them. They might see your first email. They might see your second email like in their inbox, right, but they might not click it. So they've been exposed, but they having click it to truly consume or you have people literally just missing every single one. Yeah. Right. So there's a reason that you want to hit people up multiple times and this is no different than hitting people up, right? You're online. Yo, I'm posting this. I'm posting this. I'm posting this. I'm posting this. And how many times have you seen a video online and you didn't watch it at that time? Yeah, you might have saved the incident. I'm a watch it later or sometimes I'll just be like, I'm going to look it up. So I remember the title. There's so many versions of I'm not watching and now I do want to watch it later. Yeah. But if it doesn't pop up again, it gets distant and more and more distant because I get berated with new content. Yeah. But if I see that thing again. Oh, yeah, I did want to watch that video and a lot of times let's just say YouTube is YouTube's algorithm saying Abra like you still acting like you want to watch this video before the stuff that you watching. Come on. Watch this thing, but you can create that same effect yourself by posting, posting, posting. So that stat alone is something that artists really need to dig into and just finally like just black out like six to eight. That's how much it's going to take. And you might not do it with everything, but like we just saw with Piff and Simone, when we were talking about early in the episode, if it's something that you know, like this is that thing. They should move. Give it another try. Yeah, especially if the response to the lower performing pieces overall positive, right? Oh, yes. Yeah. Point because it's so many factors that can go into it. Like we already touched on cultural. Sometimes you just post at the wrong time of the day, right? Like you picked the wrong part of late. It's so many things that go into it that I always feel like, like you were saying, if you truly feel like the song is the one, then you have to give it at least like, I don't know if I put a number on it, but I would say at least like 30 to 50 pieces of content before you truly sell out. Okay, I put this up 50 times and people still are not fucking with it. Okay. It's the music. You know what I'm saying? But most of the time in those scenarios, it's the content, right? And like, so there'll be artists who will give up at content number three, content piece number three, thinking the song is terrible. And if I know your, your content skills will maybe trash and then get it. The eyes it deserved or like, you know, the headline was off so it didn't keep people's attention long enough. Like there's so many little pieces that could be the reason of why I didn't take off that like you really do need that many at-bats before you can truly say now it was the music. You understand that this kind of holding people back and I like acquainted to the sales cause I don't think enough artists think of fan conversion like sales, right? And it really, it truly is a numbers game, right? It's like you put up a thousand shots, but some of them going to hit, you know, assuming certain quality things and, you know, entertainment value and things like that. But it really is a numbers game and it's like how many times can you keep micro inching towards getting this person to fuck with you? Right? And there are plenty of artists that I've come across where it took a lot of pieces of content before I finally broke and converted. Right? Hey, but you broke. Yeah, and I broke. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, man, like, okay, like you said, imagine if it took me post number nine to give them a chance, but it stopped at post number three. You know what I'm saying? I wouldn't even be here and who knows how many other people wouldn't even have been there in the pipeline. So like, I don't know, man. I, it's one of those things that I feel like we have personally been fighting hard for for a very long time. Right? And I'm glad to see the narrative is starting to kind of trickle out there and, you know, I don't, I still don't think there are enough examples. It's not enough. Yeah. But I mean, we have these clear anecdotes. Hopefully this clip, the two clips that will probably chop up from this really help people understand, like visually, you can see the difference just from posting more than one time. Yeah. Because Piff also talked about the algorithm. You know, Eddie mentioned the algorithm. So what does the algorithm mean? You talked about the for you page, right? Yeah. So on TikTok, especially of all platforms, this is extremely meaningful on TikTok. You can have a thousand people in a bucket, right? But your content starts in miniature buckets and grows out and shows to more and more people. So let's just say that a thousand people on the platform of TikTok in your niche. TikTok might show it to 500 people, right? And then it might show another post to 200 people that have zero overlap with those first 500 people or half of those people might be overlap, right? You got like a hundred that have already watched and then a hundred that didn't watch. So every time you post, it's not even the same people that are seeing it on a platform like TikTok. People are completely unaware that alone, like you said, then however many times that you might have posted. So the algorithm works that way. But then that's actually a negative thing when you think about it because it's like, dang, well, if I'm only getting a whole bunch of one-offs, I'm missing out on that consistent content contact that six to eight times people have to see me. So now you really can go hard. Like Simone Talies where she posted like 40 times because some of these people have never seen this before. And then by the 10th time, I had some people who've seen this once, some people who've seen it three times, some people who have seen it 10 times, right? You're constantly getting this overlap, but it's never 100%. So the way the algorithm works is nowhere near the OG Instagram chronological order way of things where nine times out of 10, only people who follow you are gonna see it, but they're gonna see it on their feed. So they'll damn near see probably 80% of your post. That day is far gone. It's not even Instagram anymore, right? So look, the algorithms, the way they are set up, there are good reasons that you will not, that you can post things more than one time and not have anything to worry about, let alone the fact that most people need to see it more than once. The last thing for this that I want to touch on though that Eddie mentioned was variation. He used the word variation and this is like one of the first YouTube videos I remember making like years ago and the whole concept was the way variation prevents the concept of spam. Like people feel like they're spamming when you're being lazy and it's the exact same thing again and again and again and again. But when you create a variation, whether it's a new headline, whether you introduce a slightly different part of the song first, maybe one's vertical, maybe one's horizontal, there's color changes. It's a new video, same song, right? A new meme that you relate to the song. As you change all these different elements and things vary, it creates a new type of entertainment, right? It's like you're entertaining people with the same thing from different directions, how there's like multiple angles to the same joke, right? That creates that concept and people begin to appreciate it because they see that you're continuing to change things up and it becomes a joke because they see what you're doing like the graduation, oh I saw he did this and he did this and he's doing different things for the same thing. So that oftentimes is appreciated versus oh, he just told me the same thing the exact same way every single time, I'm going to tune that out because I already consumed that. There's nothing else new for me. But if I see that new thing, I'm already familiar with the first thing that occurred. So now I now focus on the new thing that you did and that's going to allow me to appreciate your creativity. So it's just about entertaining people at the end of the day. Yeah, that's such a good point, bro, because it's like I think we get so wrapped up on the video content itself and being like, oh, this is the content, but the overall package is really the content. So even just changing out the headline technically makes it a new piece of content, right? Like you said, there's a new joke I have to process. There's a new path you're kind of taking me down. It's a good ass point. Yeah. It's a good ass point. Yeah, man. So look, I mean, I think if y'all don't get what we've said today, Brad, if y'all can't become comfortable with posting the same piece of content multiple times, just changing things to help it perform better or even the same piece of content at different times because maybe it just hit wrong that day, that timing, culture, whatever was going on. Look, I don't know what to do. How we could convince y'all any more than what's already been said. Yeah, breast of time saver is a budget saver and nothing else. Look at it like a training exercise because most of you hate to be, you know, that guy, but most of you probably suck at making headlines and copying stuff. And this is the perfect way to perfect it, right? Keep trying, keep doing some math best. And also, I think it scratches that itch that artists have of multiple creative ideas where it's like, hey, I have 20 different ideas for this post. Which one should I do? All of them, every single one of them because I can't tell you if you're going to be right or which one is going to be right or wrong. Sean, I can't tell you, you can't say, bro. Just post all of it. Right. Nobody knows for 100% short. Yeah. All right. Now, next thing, which genres make the least money when they collaborate? All right. If you collaborate with another artist, which type of artist would you rather collab with and how much money should artists make from a track when they collaborate? That's a question that we're going to have a discussion about. I don't want to say answers, but we got a clip to show y'all. All right. I checked this out from none other than Ray Daniels. He makes a list. She has everything to do with publishing. How I do it on the urban side was was that the beat was 50%. The hook was 20. Each verse was 10 and the bridge was 10. A verse in the hook, I'm taking 30%. But when I got to the pop side, it was, it was way different. They just let everything even. It's like, yo, it was eight writers, break it down. The reason why I like their way better is because now we're not worried about who contributed and did what. Like now if CJ's in the room, I'm not worried about did CJ program the drums properly because he's in the room. We're going to split this evenly. So this is his baby as much as my baby, rather than the way urban side is, we're going to write the hook. I wrote the hook. Man, I gave him the first four words on the intro. It's like, come on, bro. If we all know it's our song equally, we care more. So if I wrote the hook in, Tamara has a better line for it. I'm not thinking, oh man, she just cut into my 20%. I'm like, hey, this is our shit. Help me out. Give me some. It's more collaborative rather than who did what and claiming to fighting over pennies. I just don't believe in that. All right. Now I know some of y'all might have y'all thoughts on this, but I do think he made some valid points. So we're going to discuss all sides because there were a couple of notable names who had their own thoughts on this as well. Corey, what do you think though? Yeah, I do think it's interesting. I mean, I do think there are cultural differences between let's just say rapping pop when it comes to collaboration because popping itself is a naturally collaborative genre because I mean, you know, hey, they be that guy. Well, you know, most pop artists kind of get brought into situations where there's a team of people helping and they're brave from day one to be collaborative versus rap tends to be this like, hey, I got it out the mud. You know what I'm saying? Type of genre like look at what I can do when I can kind of handle. So I do think that there's a natural affinity for pop artists to kind of want to collaborate and I could see how this process will be beneficial because like I said, it's like everybody's making the same amount. There's an equal drive for us to make sure that this thing does well versus, you know, if I know I'm only getting paid to 10% for the hook. I may have a gray idea for the verse, but I might hold it back because it's like, I ain't paid for that. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm gonna let the guy get paid for the verses. You know what I'm saying? Show, approve what he can do. So that's the one thing that I love about his suggestion and the equal splits. Now you have truly everybody there trying to create the best song possible because now we're getting the equal percentage but we only can increase our percentage by making the song do as good as possible. Yeah. All right. And it has to be a better song theoretically, right? To perform better. Yeah. Otherwise my other, my competition is not only the marketplace, but the other person creating this song with me. So I like that aspect of it, but let's get into some of the thoughts of others. Now, let's see verse Simmons say agreed. This is great except for when you wrote most of the song lyrics and melody and you got to split it evenly with the dude in the corner that just said, quote unquote, the, right? So there's that facts like everybody's kind of on that same, that same perspective and you can kind of get the same from candy, candy birds. Was it escape? Yeah. Escape from escape. I don't agree with this one. Don't come in the room and say one line and be expecting an equal share not happening. Now candy's a writer, writer. Yeah. Right. She's written like things, I think all by herself, let alone where he knows some collaborations. And I, so I get this, right? I get this. So it's one of those things where how do you ask the individual to buy into the ideology of the whole, the greater good, quote unquote, right? It's like democracy. This is what we deal with in America. What do we always hear people say when in terms to vote? What do they say? Vote for your beliefs. Beliefs, another word they say is interest. Okay, there we go. Vote for your interest. Yeah. But oftentimes our interest is not the best interest of the country as a whole from time to time, right? Yeah. Right? Like because there's so many different interests to deal for and account for in a country like America where we're supposed to be accepting all these different people that are up, right? So how do you do that? You relate that back to an artist. I hear what you're saying, but man, I'm putting in this work and man's ain't putting in this work like I'm putting in this work so I can get the personal difficulty with doing something like that. But I do appreciate where he's coming from like that. And you know, the, the rooms that he's in himself, he probably doesn't have to account for that as much at this level. I don't know. I'm just kind of doing that out there. I would love for a songwriter to come on this, come in on this episode and answer this for me, but I wonder if they account for impact of the line in the song. So like it's a hard cake point was the person that wrote one line, but it's like what if that one line is the most memorable part of the song? Man, what song is this? What song is this? It's a song. They said it three times and not all go everything Bruno Mars. There's another song and they just got, oh, Cisco. I saw a documentary song, right? Yeah. You know, something like a Chuck. What was that? I was like what all night long. All right. Let me see that song. But at one point when they say living, it was living a little bit. I got you. Right? Yeah. So Cisco knew the guy who wrote that song. It wasn't was it Ricky Martin? Ricky Martin. It wasn't Ricky Martin. He was just a performer of it, but he knew the guy who wrote it. So he thought he was going to go ahead and get in clearance before everything. He forgot to do it before the song actually came out when the song came out. All right. Oh, and it started performing like it was performing. Man, of course they hit him up. But that that line that got repeated three times throughout the entire song. Living in Villalocca. Bruh. They said that that songwriter owned and made more money from the song than everybody else combined. That's crazy. Like the Cisco, the producers, all that. So that has to be from impact. That's my only argument. Like how can you justify such a something that's literally when you look at it objectively, a small part of the song. How do you quantify that? It must be the impact. And if you gauge it, I don't know what time. Let me look at when Living in Villalocca came out because it also might have been a hot song at the time. You know what I mean? It had a certain. All right. So that was 1999. And then the song came out. Oh, three, two year. I remember I was in elementary. Wait a minute. It came out of 1999. Oh, shit. Dang. So, yeah, that thing was fresh. But he tried it then, bro. He really risked it. Yeah, he risked it. He should have got it clear beforehand. Man. So that's that right there. Again, goes to impact. Yeah. Because the impact included I could understand what the ones are saying. No, I could get that because I will feel that way. If my part of the song was the most memorable part of the song and you just wrote like a cool bridge. Everybody in the clothes thing, my shit. Like the viral part on TikTok is my part. I could understand it then, but I do think the overall notion of equality across the room does probably make the room work harder. Right. And look, to be fair, I think that objectively speaking and looking at how things played out, that song could have did damn well, probably the same without that line. However, in that time, it was highly arguable, right? To say that this has that level of impact. So I get it. It's arguable. Would you have been saying that shit in the first place if I didn't write that song? It's no way he would have said that if that song didn't come out. That's a good point, bro. A black guy would have never been saying that song. So yeah. So impact has to have some, I'm assuming, impact outcome on how they judge it in court and things like that when it goes that far. But man, I mean, I think this is just a person. My person bases on how people are willing to go about it. It seems like I know quite a few producers who have a similar relationship to this because they work together so much. You're like, one of these things going to hit at some point, you know what I mean? And we don't know which one's going to hit. We don't know which one's going to get recorded to da, da, da, but we just keep working. And if you want it, we get, they bust down every sentence is somewhat similar producers. If y'all are in any of those circles that are pretty free and you can kind of trust and move like that, let us know, but we do know if you have a circle like that, that can move like that, that you trust. Man, it makes creativity flow so much easier, right? Not having to deal with the business in that way. Now you might knock somebody outside of your circle over the head. I think that's the more realistic way to have it. I got my circle. We bust it down even outside that circle. It is what it is. Just like the Mikos, right? Three ways. It don't matter. Everybody got left off of that and booze. You know what I mean? It's like we bust it down equal. We take care of the family and it is what it is. So I get both sides. But again, my solution is probably your specific circle that you can trust and move it like that. Y'all, if you have that type of circle and you don't have to do that way either, but 100% outside of that circle, you probably only make sense to get what you can out of this situation. You don't even know the people and it is all business. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I really hope some songwriters comment because I also would assume, like you said, makes the process easier because every RSI I've ever talked to says the most awkward part of a studio session is when everybody has to sit down and talk about the splits. Like almost every RSI I talked to is like, that's when it gets uncomfortable because like, I guess reality says saying that this is business. You know what I'm saying? Like you just have fun making music. You know what I'm saying? Then it's like, all right, before you leave this room, let's get this legal shit in order. You know what I'm saying? Nobody leave this room before we get this down on paper. So I would assume that if I walked in the room where I know like, okay, all of us in here are getting the same percentage of this, yeah, that takes some weight off my shoulder. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And like you said, it makes me a little bit more artistically free or a little bit more creatively free. So that's why like I could, I get that. Like I agree with that. Like I on paper at least to a non-songwriter, you know, throw it out there guys. You know what I'm saying? It makes a lot of sense to me, bro. Like bust it down evenly, bro. And let the audience decide who should, I guess quote-unquote be paid more off of it. Right, right. Now I know a lot of people handle that awkward conversation about just letting the managers do it, right? That's a great buffer. So that's always nice. So you and the artist can remain 10-yard relationship, let managers do whatever they got to do. He'd be tripping. You know how I go, man. Got a posture and say what you got to say to get through it. So, but yeah, that's definitely going to be an ongoing conversation. I'm sure there's not going to be one answer for the whole thing. But since I did mention Cisco as a part of this, if y'all have not seen, it's either a voice or a noisy documentary on Cisco Thong's song. It's a brilliant documentary. And the amount of creativity that he put towards that process is really dope. Like it was dope because they had the producers made this beat. They did it for Michael Jackson. They even went Cisco. Like they played it for him by mistake. And they're like dope. I can't even imagine Michael Jackson. But it wasn't they didn't, you know, the thong song part didn't exist. Yeah, okay. You know what I mean? That part didn't exist. That would be wild, right? But so he ends up like writing the song, the story of how he even comes up with thong song. He like went on a date and he saw a thong for the first time. Like this is when it was in time. It's a while because the funny part is and he told his friends about it and they were like, wait, what? And then they start like some niggas going out into the city trying to find girls and get, you know, smash and then hopefully see a thong come across this, this mythical thong he spoke of and then a friend came back. One of them was like, yo, bro, guess what? What I found. And he was like, what? That thong, that thong, thong, thong. And that's where that part came from. And they do it in for a joke and whatever, but he didn't think it was going to stay. So it was like the way it came about. And then you see Cisco creatively say, hey, this isn't enough. He went and found a violinist and you listen back to that song. Like that's a huge part of the song. Yeah. Like he went and found that it was in the dude who played the violin. Like he was so far from that type of music. A classical music. Yeah. Like legit older white man. Well, he might have been younger than but now our age, he was still older to me. Right. Yeah. He and knew nothing really of those that genre. And Cisco kind of like had him play it. And I was like, yeah, that's exactly how I want it. And when it came out and it was a hit, he was so detached. And when his friends and people started talking about, he was like, I wonder if that's that song I played that riff for. Like that's how detached he was. But Cisco was like just grabbing people and even against the producers. You know, Will and ironically, Michael Jackson loved the thong song so much. He'd up the producers and like, yo, well, let's get in the studio. I heard that story before. Yeah. I remember hearing that. Like, man, who would have thought bro thong song be what tickle Michael Jackson's fans? Hey, bro, Michael. No, I'm going to get the tickles with Michael. Look, my Michael is definitely an interesting dude and more and more I've heard about him. Now, next topic. MTV has been lying to people folks. MTV has been lying to people, but it's a great example of what you as artists and content creators can do for yourself to go viral, build strong fans. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm about to go ahead and put it on the screen. So let me go ahead and pull up this clip. Right. So this she has the. Here. All right. You can speed that up, EJ. Like a little bit of that sound and all this. You can just get straight to this part. You know, get rid of the dead space. We want to do your MTV Cribs. And I was like, oh, and the first thing they said was, all right, we got a couple of houses picked out for you. And I was like, uh, okay. I said, you know what? I got a house for y'all to come. And yo, straight up, yo, like no, no BS. Yo, they came to my crib and they walked in my door because I caught them off guard. They have no, uh, they have no clue on how I was living. So they walked up in my shed and they started looking around like, yo, you live up in here? I was like, yeah, I live up in here. My cousin was sleeping on the floor and after I showed them the crib, they went outside and had a meeting. So, so, and it was like a film crew of almost this size and they dumbed it down to like two people, one camera guy and one sound guy. And that was it. Because that was all that can fit in my house. And they shot it. And at the end, they edited it and then whatever and then we made magic. It was like, yo. Hey, man, first, foremost, do you remember that episode? I do remember that. Classic, unforgettable episode of MTV Cribs. If somehow y'all miss that, you can just Google MTV Cribs or we'll put it a link or whatever. And it's a great episode because the house was trash. But they've been lying to people. Like when he said they had a house set up for me, I was like, wait, huh? Like that just hit me. I was like, wait, so they were going to give you a house? What do you mean? They had a house for you and then you took them to your real house instead. That sounded crazy. So I looked into it and you remember JoJo, the singer, right? Yeah. She said her episode was fake, right? So she said her and her mom weren't even living in the house at the moment. Her and her mom, for whatever reason, were living in hotels at the moment. So she went to her uncle's house. And her whole episode is just her uncle's house. It's like her cousins, toys and all that stuff in that episode. And she, funny enough that she regretted, she should have just bawled out and did one of the houses that they do for people. Yeah, 100% bro. What? And played it big. But that just, let me know. I was like, hold up. So not all episodes, apparently, but many of the episodes, hey, completely fake. It's not even these people houses. Now, doing what we do today. I get it, production schedules. You know, hey, we got to get this thing shot. We got to get it in. There's so many reasons. And it feels different when it's MTV that's tricking you versus the artists like inspiring and conspiring to trick you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because I always have that deline on. Like, it wasn't me guys. That's what they want to do. But it's weird. It does have a weird thing about it. But what I want to say to that though, for my artist standpoint, content creator standpoint, this is entertainment, baby. I'll go back until you make it. Yeah, I'm not even going to fake it till you make it, bro. Because that thing until you make it gives you so poorly in action. You're like, oh, damn, right? I didn't mean it like that. I'm talking. Like, I knew a dude that was in debt because he bought this BMW and all these nice clothes. And he was telling me like he bought all this stuff. So he could seem like he was doing big. I think funny enough, he was trying to be an artist. But I was so far from ever being in the music industry at that point. And like, I was probably like a freshman in college. And he was like, he had to maintain that lifestyle because his brother looked up to him and all this stuff that he was broke, right? Faking it till you make it. So I don't mean that. But what I do mean is the ability to create something that's not real and then make it pop though. If we go back to EM tripling, right? At the show, creating a fake moment, right? Or creating or reframing a moment in that first case, right? Oh, it was only 13 people out on this show. But I'm so thankful for it. And then that goes viral. Some people making fun of him or having 13 people to show. Some people like kind of like cheering him along and encouraging him and calling him humble, all that great stuff, right? But because he reframed the moment. Then the other moment that we talked about with him in particular since we're talking about him is he scripted the whole idea of the, yo bro, forgot his name, had somebody in the crowd. They scripted that, right? And then obviously that went viral as well. So just another example of how so much of this shit around us, right? And the entertainment industry in particular is fake. Yeah, bro, sometimes you just got a line to you fly, bro. You know what I'm saying? I stand on that, man. But I'd get it though. It kind of makes me think of that conversation we had about artists making other artists pay for their music videos because they have a brand to maintain. So I can understand MTV. Like I said, one logistics reason is it makes it faster. We know exactly what we got to go. What they will look like if it's safe. But then also it's like, man, you know, MTV is in the game. They saw behind the scenes. They knew every artist wasn't as popping as they probably portrayed themselves to be. As I meant, do I risk pulling up to an artist's house and getting in the red man situation? Well, this show is supposed to be like showing the lifestyle of the grandiose, right? Like I kind of paint that larger in life image, especially in the 2000s. Bro, the 2000s are crazy, but we assume every rapper back then was making like a hundred million dollars a year of some crazy shit, right? So the lie was in full effect. Full effect, bro. Yeah, every every bit of every entity making sure the lie stands still, you know what I'm saying? So and then the Georgia one is crazy too. Cause I could see him in the same situation. Like, oh, you homeless? No, no, no, no. We got to get you a grill. Yeah, exactly. Not today. You ain't, you know what I'm saying? So I get it from that standpoint, but I like that. Uh, you know, more artists are open about that because I think there's a gripe with smaller artists. I actually seen in a comment on one of our videos where someone was saying that their biggest gripe with bigger artists is that they, they a lot of smaller artists and make them think, you know, the game is a certain way just to, for them to, you know, the lucky few to grind their way up and see like, Oh, this ain't nothing like, you know, these artists were kind of telling me and then the ones that never get that far just believe it. You know what I'm saying? And that becomes like the floor for them. And then they just speaking their way. Don't know. So one just hated that part. Yeah, but always, bro. This context, right? It's like, I feel like my shit ain't popping and working because it's me. Yeah. And you don't realize, no, it's not you. It's they have things on their side that you aren't unaware of completely. So now you get more depressed, depressed, judging yourself when really your shit ain't popping because you don't have this resource, that resource or this person or the timing. Cause sometimes these people just pop and they have no idea why, right? But they'll make it seem like I planned this thing out, right? So there's so many ways that it is a detriment to other artists that follow. Yeah, bro. Even worse that they didn't plan it out. But my biggest gripe with old art interviews would be like, you know, how'd you make it to this point? Oh, you know, man, I was just kind of doing me and then like one day it's like, oh my God, he's lying. Like I said, maybe that's really how they felt because they didn't know what the fuck was going on. You know, but most of them be lying. Yeah, that's a whole another subject. We'll get into another day because a lot of there are some who truly feel like I was just doing me and me. It's so awesome that the world had to witness this greatness at some point. So there is some of that as well. Cause they truly are like you said, just unaware because the label kind of kept them from that back in the day. I was like, bro, you had a 200k budget behind you, but cause I'm thinking about it from Red Man's perspective, right? Like that had to be a hard thing to do back then because like I said, the 2000s, bro, like we every artist was kind of portraying themselves like super grandiose. I guess his benefit to him is that, you know, he was a, I guess the equivalent of like a street rapper then, right? So yeah, so it was like positive brand building for him. Yep. You understand? Like, oh, he's still getting it out the mud, but he's still got his cousin sleeping on the floor. You know what I'm saying? He was just, right. It was wild. I can only imagine waking up in this studio stuff on TV like that at some point. And I think just for a small, you know, branding moment, there's layers to this, right? Because the show branded itself and had to maintain this image, like you said. So yo, bro, like you want to get this house so we can just make sure everything looks apart and we don't want you looking crazy, right? But because of that standard, when method, you know, a red man came like he came, it broke that norm and then made his episode a viral episode in that time. Like that's one episode that if you watch episodes, you don't forget that one because it was just so crazy to see at that time. Yeah, I remember that, bro. That's what I'm saying. I remember that episode and I don't think a lot of artists would do that today. I think a lot of artists, everybody, yeah, give me the house. I don't want people to see how I'm really living right now, give me the house. Yeah, I actually would agree with that. It's still a very rare thing. But yeah, artists, so much of this is a sham, but it's the entertainment industry. So don't think of it as fake like they're trying to trick me as an artist and young professional who's trying to come in a game. It's entertainment. That literally is what it is. It's magic. Yeah, it's trying to trick the fans. It's the movie magic, the TV magic. I remember going to a talk show. It was Monique's talk show when she had it. He was at one of Turner's Turner Studios and the entire talk show. It was a late night show on BET was shot in a completely different order than what it showed on TV because of the efficiency of moving shit around. They had to move the set. We got this one room. So we're going to have Ghostface killer perform now, even though technically we're not going to have them shown after until after the third commercial break or something like that, right? But once we move the set, that chance is going to be gone. So we're not going to move the set back just from the perform. So it makes sense why all these things are in place in many ways. Just like MTV is like, oh, it's easier. We got to schedule. So there's reasons for it. And then also it's just a better experience. People say they want like realistic movies and things like that. But if you really saw it truly realistic, they should be born as hell because they're going to go through every motion in motion. You don't want to see me actually walk all the way down the stairs from our room into this kitchen. Wake up. I might walk in the hallway next thing. You know, you see them on those last two steps walk into the kitchen, right? That's what you want to see. You don't want to see every single step. So this is the entertainment industry. That's the part of it. You just need to also make sure that you're not doing something that's going to be a massive threat to your particular brand, right? But aside from the branding image, faking it, right? The more important part is just understanding you can create moments in general, right? If you give it the right attention, that can have that can become a bigger moment. Right? Period. People do these fake relationships. They make it seem like it's relationship for a moment. All of this shit is entertainment. That's it. Yeah, bro. Gotta, gotta deceive until they believe. Hey, man, look, I know we coming off the holidays, man. You hung around the old folk over the holidays, man. Lie to your fly to see today. Believe, man. You look like you need a pinkie ring on you right now. Now that last one was just sitting on my heart. Like it hit me like halfway through the convoise and I gotta hold on to this one. Hey, we gonna put that a tweet storm of that one. All right, well, let's get it to the last topic, which is how much, how much should you allow your fans to be involved in your creative process? All right, I know some people don't want it all. Some people might lean on their fans or listen to their fans too much. I want to play this quick snippet from Brock Hampton to really get this conversation popping. All right, let me play it right. It's interesting that we, it's interesting that we embrace the audience as much as we did and like allow them to be a part of the painting, give them the paintbrush. And I think that was good and bad, but when it was good, it was great really. Cause then you're kind of like all building like this like collective together. All right, so like he acknowledged period. There's the good and the bad of having your fans be involved. So I want to touch on some of the good and some of the bad from the perspective we've experienced in things as content creators in general, but then also maybe some of the artist nuances in particular. Now one, just being a creative is yourself. You have a vision on how you want to do things. So then you talk about all these pieces of feedback that you're getting and you're like, no, that's just not the way I want to do it because I'm creative and I have this vision. If I do everything based on what you say, I'm no longer creative. I'm pure marketer or business person just reacting to the best form of feedback. I get that, right? So you're trying to sell your vision, not find somebody else's vision and follow that. But you know, getting that other side of the fence, you want to make sure what you're doing connects and if you're too far off, I mean, what's the point of doing this whole thing? If you want to do it as a career, right? If it doesn't at least connect with people to a certain extent. Yeah, and like fans too, usually try to point you in the right direction, especially when you're growing and you know, they don't really have a reason to dislike you yet. A lot of times like fans are, you know, they're viewing it from their vanity point and they may even be paying attention to the conversations that other fans are having that you might not be seeing. And so they're like, yo, I'm telling you, man, go this way, you know what I'm saying? Go this way. And so, you know, I think I've seen instances before where like the audience is steered the creator or the artist in completely in the right direction. You know what I'm saying? And I do think I've also seen times where their feedback held the creator back, right? Like it's almost like too much noise coming. And like you said, the artist starts to lose confidence in their idea. Damn, they don't like my idea. They just want me to do what they think is a good idea and it discourages them a little bit, right? But, you know, I, you said something like a long time ago that made me think about it differently when you kind of told me about how like tech works, right? And you told me that, you know, in tech, they believe in just like getting the product out there really fast to get a lot of feedback on it so they can tweak it. That's what makes a lot of sense, right? Like I have this thing that I think will work, right? Based on whatever my experience is or my viewpoint is and then I get hundreds to thousands of feedback from the people I'm trying to sell it to, right? And like I said today, people are very vocal, but people have no problem telling you what they think should be better about the thing that you're doing for them. So it's like, I have this thousand people, my focus group telling me that, hey, if you did this thing, this should be crazy. And, you know, I just think it's valuable, right? It's like, like, why not get that, why not get that viewpoint from the people that you were trying to get the purchase of things you're trying to do? So I can understand that being certain elements of an artist's career that maybe they don't want to let fans in, right? Like maybe it's like, hey, like, I don't think they should necessarily be sitting with you in like the writing room, right? But there are also some artists I've seen do like live writing sessions with their fans, right? So, but I can understand an artist going, I don't want you here when I'm in the initial creation process. Maybe once I have a framework for it, I don't know where to go or, you know, I got three visual concepts for it. I don't know where to go. Like I can understand like giving them a ladder of choice and making them feel like they have complete autonomy over the situation. I think that sometimes is a happy medium. But like that was saying, I think is there's enough good that could come out of it that makes me believe that artists should trust their fan base majority of the time, unless you just have like a trolling as like fan base, like a DJ academic fan base or something, you know what I'm saying? Well, they just like to fuck with you and still you're wrong because they think it's funny, you know what I'm saying? But if you have fan bases and like that, which is the most artists and like, yeah, you know, let them at least give them the illusion of input, you know what I'm saying? Cause that can go a long way. No, that because that having at least the illusion of input for a fan allows them to feel like they have ownership of some of the process. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I've been a part of this and now that I've been a part of this, I want to support it more as it comes out because I am not just supporting him. I'm supporting me in a way. I'm a part of this vision. Yeah. This is my shit. Yeah. This is my shit. So his world is my world and now you have people invested in your world and they're going to help you grow it. Yeah. They're going to show up to concerts more or buy things more. Hey, I was a part of saying that you should come up with t-shirts or a certain type of t-shirt instead of doing a dead hat. So now when that t-shirt comes out, I'm like, yo, I want to be a part of it. But you know, there's also something that you know, I can pull from tech which is, you know, the core product versus features and the differentiation is the core product is what people come for. All right. It's serving a specific need or behavior that they'll be consistent and use. But then the features is like that shit that it's cool. It's a bell and a whistle, but people don't actually use it. All right. It'll be like me saying, man, I would love if Instagram went back to chronological order and the Instagram adds it to a different feed, which they have and I still never click over there. You know what I mean? It's a feature. It's really cool. And then if you put it on my main feed and made it my only way, I would actually do it, but it's not actually a core product enough where no, I'm not going to use it unless it has this thing, right? Or it's not as functional or useful. So that same applies when you're listening to your fans. You can get a lot of noise. Part of that process is building the skill of understanding one, how do I differentiate between stuff that they're just saying and that's just like them being off the cuff and being careless because they can say something. Like you said, fans, people will love to talk to you these days and give their opinion and they feel like it's their responsibility almost to make sure the world is their opinion. Yeah, a lot of fans are stupid. I stand on that. As genius as they might be, you know, I also stand on that. A lot of them are stupid. There's genius and stupidity, right? Because sometimes you don't know enough not to say something and that something might be, it might, it might click at the right time and the right space, you know what I mean? But this doesn't mean you smart just because you got one thing right, you know what I mean? But the fair point that I think that again just relates to is you have to figure out how to discern like what I'm going to do. How am I going to take this feedback? Oh, a lot of people are saying the same thing. Maybe it's something I at least need to consider. Yeah. And I think that's the biggest part. Being willing to at least like acknowledge and process why they're saying this. Don't just go with the ideas. But why are they seeing this? Am I missing something? Or is there something that they want to gain from it? And if you can pinpoint that sometimes you can serve that desire without doing this specific thing that they requested because you're like, oh, I got to even better way, right? To get to a certain place. If you go back to Henry Ford saying if I asked what they wanted, if I asked the customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse, right? Some more. Why do they want a faster horse? Because they want to get there faster. Yeah. So you serve that same need by creating a vehicle that will get them there faster, right? And that's the way you want to think about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I say this to a man. Like I truly believe that like fans like feeling like they have control over your career. I fans a while, brother. Y'all have to think about it. If you're ours that has fans, you know, I'm coming from yours with no fans, brother. Listen up, right? Fans like to feel like if it wasn't for me, you will not be here today, right? I think we all in our head have this weird fantasy of like I stopped listening to this mother because tomorrow he falling off. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so that's why I go back to like giving them real choice has a lot of positive benefits, even if you decide not to listen to them and taking to consideration what they're saying, but even just giving them the illusion of choice is very powerful because like you said, they become emotionally connected to it. They start to feel like it's their project and then you're just feeding into that fantasy of like, hey, I need you to survive what you do. You do need them to survive, but like that individual you may not need to survive the way they feel like you need them to survive, right? But it's like play into the fantasy. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm and because I've seen ours do that where it's like, hey, how many times have we seen ours be like, hey, I want you to pick my next single. Here go five options. They made more than five songs. You know what I'm saying? Like they have hella songs are why they only give you that five illusion of choice. Right. I want these are five songs. I already feel like anyway, I was going to run with, you know what I'm saying? Me and my team been arguing about it. If we were all on the same page, you would have never got this choice, but we not. So, hey, I'm going to let you all decide, right? But as a fan, we just go like, oh, he made these five songs. He can't decide which one. That one, that one, that one, right? And it's illusion of choice, brother. Illusion of choice. Now, even whenever ours like ask things, I'm like, bro, you don't really mean this, but I'm going to participate because you at least you at least made me feel like you needed me in this situation. I much appreciate it because fans desire for that is growing. Yeah. I don't think that existed as much before, right? People were cool of just witnessing what the artist does, right? It was almost this mysticism about it, right? Which is why, you know, artists grow up feeling that today, like wanting to operate in a time that doesn't exist. Like, oh, I should be so mystical and I should just create this thing that the world isn't all of, but the world isn't at all much these days to be honest. It's a different temperament with the fan bases because people see so much and then people are. So I don't want to say fool themselves, but it's just it's just so indifferent because they've seen so many different things. So what you really want to experience or I mean, what you're really dealing with is now a fan base that went from, hey, I'm cool of witnessing what this artist does next. I wonder what's going to happen to a general market temperament of this is a RPG. Yeah, everything is a RPG. I want to be a part of it. You know, I want to be a part of everything gaming, likes, comments. Everything is receiving my feedback and functioning as a result of my feedback. That's the perception and that's what people are accustomed to. So if you give me the opportunity to that, it's funny. That's not even as cool anymore. You allowing me to vote on the song. That's novel, great marketing and made me feel amazing back in the day because you gave me the opportunity to vote on the song today. Not so much. I might feel more invested and feel like, oh, this person is a good person. But I also feel like I'm kind of supposed to be involved in this process. There's a sense of entitlement in today's current fans too. So, you know, but it does have a benefit. I think like it really does have a benefit to allow them to be involved somewhere along the lines. Yeah, you just made me think about something that we've kind of touched on before and other points. But artists are competing with content creators. Yes. And a lot of content creators, like just general content creators usually have no issue with letting their audience drive things, right? So it's like, if I'm a fan and I commented on Bram and Sean video, yo, you should make a video about playlists and you make a video about playlists and then I get on this Twitch stream like, yo, you should play the new, I don't know, Pokemon game and he turns that shit on right as far as playing it. And then, you know, I go, I don't know, comment on like my favorite Instagram comedian. You know, you should make a joke about XYZ and then file it. Like he got a skit about it. At this point, bruh, I'm just, I'm just one naturally assuming I'm amazing. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm killing it, bruh. I'm I got these motherfuckers up. But then two, it almost starts to feel like, hey, you person that won't give me that choice. Like, how dare you when so many other of my favorite creators at least give me the option in order to be a part in some way or another. And like, YouTubers are notorious for doing it. YouTubers and streamers, like, I feel like a notorious for giving their audience like, so that type of input into what's going on. Like our whole YouTube landscape is like, hey, man, put some shit in the comments so I can read and think about what the next video was about. You know what I'm saying? So, like, and we've been trained to think that way for, I mean, at least with like the last, like seven, eight years of YouTube, at least, you know what I'm saying? We already talked about the impact that the YouTube landscape has on just, you know, content consumers as a whole. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't think about it until you said that, but it's like, yeah, bro, every other creative aspect of my life or, you know, creative person in my ecosystem probably has given me that type of choice in one way or another. And you, music artist, you person that I see a couple of times a month won't even let me pick something for you, bro. Crazy. I'm not going for that. You know what I'm saying? Weird times we live in, man. Weird times, bro. Weird times. Hey, well, with that said, that is yet another episode, episode 20 of No Labels Necessary. Please subscribe if you made it this far, haven't subscribed yet, but more importantly, share this pod. Share this pod. No labels necessary. We're trying to get to 150,000 subscribers and the more subscribers we have, the cooler the shit we can do for y'all. Don't let us be underground forever. We trying to get above ground, breathe some air. What do you say? Trying to pop. Hey, we trying to pop. On my industry plan moment. Hey, exactly. Exactly. So I'm Brain Man, Sean. And I'm Corey. And we out. Peace.