 Ikisha kwa mouzima, skii mndi kapa nivu wouzimutu. Obinu na u monthsi hamaqa, u wouza na kwa hifiru, kwa hifiru na mouzima, sii qisha kwa hifiru kwa hifiru. Nafinu na kutu, kwa hifiru nisha, kwa hifiru. Mubu urutu na kwa hifiru. Yawu kuwadu kwa kusimutu na kwa hifiru. Kwa hifiru kwa hifiru. Yawu kuwadu kwa hifiru. When the man comes to marry the lady in the first day maybe, it should not be like you must bring this amount of money before you marry her. No, let him marry her or if she loves him too and she is ready for the marriage, let them marry each other and then maybe when they come visiting they will come with something. So you are comfortable. That's appreciation. No, that's appreciation. Now that's not buying. That's not buying. That's real appreciation. Yeah, now that's real appreciation. And so for those who said six figures, nasasa this guy, so I'm going to give you half a figure. I can't even give you 500k, so now. Okay, let me put it this way. For example, as you said you love me, right? You don't have the cash for now. It doesn't mean like I will refuse to get married to you since because you don't have money. Love is not bought by money. I'll come to you. We'll get married. We'll go talk to my parents and we'll explain yourself. You don't have the cash for now. And they will give you time. We will be together as you look for the dowry you pay. But not like just taking me. You go tell my parents, I love this girl. I want to check her as my wife but I don't have the money so just give her. They won't agree. They will tell you go with her since she loves you and you also love her. Stay with her. Make a family. But by the end of the day, make sure you go find the dowry and pay. Because there is also a case which was on news. There was this lady who was married with the guy and she died. She passed away and the guy has never gone home to pay for the dowry. So that man was not allowed to go and bury this wife because of that. So it's that serious. Never say you don't have the money. You have all the time before to put a first bond, second one, third one. You still don't have the money. What if he says he wants to pay it slowly, maybe in installments or something. Ya, that's fine. Okay, they will say that too but mostly it won't happen. But the bottom line is you will have to pay the dowry because about what she has said, when a woman dies and you have not paid the dowry, a body in some cases is exhumed. You are not allowed to bury her body. Also you cannot be allowed to take care of the kids. The family of the girl also will have the right to take the hearts away from you because of the bride price. You say that when I tell the parent for now, let's say for example they give me like one year and then one year lapses and I don't have the money. Will you just go? Remember we are loving each other still. You know love doesn't have an on and off switch. That today will be like I don't love this game then I'm switching it on. So if they give me one year ultimatum, then I don't have the money by then and they take you. Will you just go? No. Do you know why you don't go? No. Because of love. Ya, because of love. We don't meet other people here on the streets and they have like a price tag. This person is capable of paying this kind of money. You just water traffic is love. Not the price tag. No you are not cartoons or emojis. I will not go because you don't have. In fact, I love you so much and I want to spend the rest of my life and I'm working and being paid well and even you are working. We can even work together so that I can help you pay the dowry. So you pay for your own dowry. No I don't pay for my... I will tell him like boss let me deal with food. You deal with the... Let me do food and bills and then you do. Because I can't remove my money from my pocket. To buy yourself. To buy myself. So you can pay the budget. Okay. Okay, talking about love and dowry. Okay, I love you, yes. But that will not blindfold me to not talk about the dowry. I'll push you to pay the dowry no matter how much I love you. Because my parents have the right to get that money. What if he can't? He has to. Like he can't. There are so many obligations. When you start a family there are so many obligations. There are so many bills to pay. Maybe house rent, water bills, a lot of bills. Whatever the bills, before engagement is done mostly in some communities like my community there is always a negotiation about the bride price. You cannot tell me that they'll give me away with okay knowing that this man will never be able to pay my bride price. So you want to be married by a man who you see will not be able to pay my bride price. This is so tight. Because I'm here to love him. So that's the point. You'd rather be married by someone you don't love because he can't pay the bride price. Let's hear what team says before we go to the next question just now. I think there's some things which we should avoid saying. Like for example say giving your way. Your parents are not giving your way. That's a lame word. Please don't use it. And this kind of pressing. But they are giving you away. That's just not the right word. What's the right word? They're giving you away. The right word is the right word. Which one? I'm coming the right word. This kind of pressing is what sometimes make men maybe cheat. For example, I love this woman she keeps on pressing. Daily she's like dowri dowri dowri. Oh gosh. And then I find another simple girl and then she loves me and she accepts me. I don't know if they will find the man cheating going to the other woman because she's kind of good. She doesn't have stress. And these are the women whom you chose. She's like dowri dowri dowri and she wants six digits but have only 50 shillings. And we had discussed how do a girl's parents have control over her once dowri is paid that we actually discussed. And you people mostly said no. Me and my parents are not controlling me either way. They're not controlling me. And the next question should be reading whether dowri how much should be placed as dowri. I want us to go back to this question because now we're talking about the fact that love comes in. And there are those ladies who are so simple that who would accept a man even if he doesn't even if he's not able to pay dowri. And so they would say, I don't mind. We can love and live. That's what matters. And you live and get married and you live your life without paying that dowri and life goes on. Forget the cases where bodies get exhumed. I think those are very extreme cases and I feel sorry for parents who would actually go that far. That's almost mental. So I just think those cases are extreme. But I also think that there are women who can accept love as it is and say, I know you don't have money but tuna jengana. Imaishanku jengana. So we'll build each other up. We'll get this money. It doesn't have to be paid in the form of dowri. Yes. And so what I wanted to know is from simplest perspective, your friends come in and they say to you, ah, you know, as a man, lasmoli payikitu. You just have to pay this thing. And this girl has asked for a certain amount. Let's say five million. Like Nora said. And you have two million. And you're willing to pay that two million. And after some time, the girl agrees for that two million. But the parents refuse and say, no, as we're sticking with five, I'm on party. What happens next? Do you really think that a price should be placed on dowri? Kamatu semi as a country. This is Kenya. Everyone should pay at least a minimum, a minimum of 100,000, because people don't have money. A minimum of 100,000 for dowri. And a maximum of this and this and that. Do you think that that's a step to go? No. That there should be a specific price so that we can all just stop arguing about this? No, we cannot put a price. Okay, the government cannot like put a certain price for dowri because mostly when dowri is paid according to the African culture, mostly they are considering the level of education for the girl. That's what they consider the most? The most, yeah. What do they consider next? Let's say she's not educated, then what do they look at next? If she's not educated, what's the next question? Let's say she's, you know, she's just finished class eight. Kamaja. I think if behavior, yeah. She's not educated, they look at the behavior and the fact that she's a girl. She must be sold anyway. If she had waki. Yeah, she must be sold. Okay. That's why I think, I don't think there should be an amount placed for dowri. Yes. All right, so that's how I see. And let's go back to the question of love and dowri. And that's why I told you to stay with the mic. I needed to know from you, you find a girl who can accept to go without the dowri. Yeah, but when she comes home, she's like acting like, you know, you didn't pay my dowri. I can do whatever I want. And come in this house at 2 a.m. every Saturday night if I feel like it. I don't have to cook for you breakfast, go in there and boil your eggs and make your own tea. I'm not doing nothing for you. You didn't pay any dowri for me. You didn't do anything for me. Why should I do this for you? Why should I do anything for you? Then how do you feel and what do you do in that situation as a man? Because you know there are women who do that. You know, in any day or any time, respect is very paramount. You know, when you get a girl and you decided that she's the one then you take her to your home and then she starts showing some disrespect. I think the good thing to do is just let her go because respect is very paramount and respect is a two-way traffic. But this is the same girl who said baby, me I'll accept you without dowri. Akituna pendana. No, maze, I'll follow you into a murder if I have to but money does not matter to me. So you fell for that. Change is inevitable. And then in there she became something else because you didn't pay. You know, change is inevitable. So we can't avoid change. When the time for changes come we'll just change. Because you know, even as guys we always love, for example, if I text you come home and you come direct sometimes a guy will just take you cheaply. But when I text you and they kind of refuse a guy always wants someone who disturbs him. And whatever comes easy sometimes can just go away. I was just scared before. There's always first time for everything so this is the first time but we're scared. Okay, also talking about love and dowri. Yes. There are cases where women chip in to help their husband pay for dowri. Also in central Kenya women have formed groups to help raise money for dowri. You can look it up. How does that make you feel? You personally? Bad. Bad? Yeah. So you think that the man is the okay the man should be entirely they want to pay the dowri? Yes. Yeah. If we're really going to do this if we're really going to do this thing let's draw some lines somewhere. Let's make it clear somewhere. Since we can't decide the amount of money since we can't decide how someone will be afterwards the least you can do is pay it to make things a bit more organized. How do you feel? But I hear in India it's a woman that pays a dowri. I'm sure you would like that. You together with all the Kenyan dudes out there who are listening would love to have a lady pay. In India it's a woman that pays a dowri. Yeah. You still see how they mistreat their women. So at the end of the day what is dowri anyway? Okay. On such a case that a woman thank God I'm not an Indian thank God I'm not coming from India because I want to allow that I'll even have to run away that like I said earlier yeah helping you to pay the dowri it's fine. I will help you but but I can't remove my money paying the dowri for you. It's like yeah you see so you should find a way you work for you to get the money and pay the dowri. Okay. To some extent I think it's better in India when the woman is the one paying the dowri because I think it's absurd yes but when the woman goes to the man's house the man will pay the bills the man will do the shopping the man will buy her clothes so what are you doing there pay the dowri let the man do everything else. I completely disagree with that because the way women are abused in India it's so inhuman they don't talk about it but those women are treated bad they are treated really bad especially if they they don't pay like a certain amount of money they are treated like slaves and also women chip in in building a family at times they buy like household they work and everything so I really don't support why women should pay because everything in the house it's what a woman does a man can sometimes can't even notice that suge is missing there is no so and such so if you disagree with women paying dowri then I think you should disagree with men paying dowri why should men pay dowri I am the one who is living my parents and moving to your family oh my gosh and your family's burden is going to be mine not the other way round men mostly don't chip in mostly as in like okay in rare cases in rare cases you'll find men like completely helping the woman's family but for a woman when you move to a man's family his family becomes your family but you know there are things like pregnancy there are things a woman has to do on her own yes pregnancy is created by two but the caring of it is done by the woman herself and nine months you guys not a short time nine months is a long time kube bananayum zigo kutabika tabika subu suge nini you know and so most of the time people are like ah yeah dowri dowri really makes sense and we need to close this segment I need to know whether there are other views to ask the last question if there's anything at all you want to add that you feel is important to this discussion um I'd like to say that you know here in Africa you look like you're deep in thought you know here in Kenya you find segments be like do you know that Indian ladies pay dowri and I'd like to tell my friend here even Indians are so surprised that women pay dowri but the important thing is just mutual agreement they should just be mutual agreement whenever dowri is is involved just mutual agreement yeah by mutual agreement I mean by you and the parents you have agreed mutually not just a one way traffic um yeah so I think when dowri is being paid the girl should sit down with the parents and say ok the girl should be reasonable enough to tell her parents that don't impose this amount of money to the man I mean I mean they should talk it out like you know buying he's not buying me from you I'll be coming here I'm still your daughter so you should not impose this amount of money maybe a huge amount of money on him like he's buying me for good ok and I wanted us to finish completely the last thing I want to finish with is a very interesting tweet that I will read lastly but we had asked should paying dowri be scrapped and illegalized and we said no that it's not something that the government of Kenya can actually illegalize or legalize it's part of the culture it's part of the tradition and we just need to make do yes because we also have you know people in the older generation would want to hear anything that dowri has to be done and in closing let me read something very interesting for a man called Johnny empowered girls should now start marrying men and paying their dowries see what a man can do a woman can do better because of this dowry thing I'll marry a Hindi because to them it's ladies who pay dowries sadly Johnny Indians don't marry Africans it's very rare and I tell you good luck with that yeah they don't marry Africans okay sawa sawa what do you think of this tweet empowered girls since to make it happen empowered women we should now be the ones to go marry men and pay their dowries no no for Nora it's a no for favorite it's a no okay for Miss Balakwain it's a no a complete no wow okay sasamu meskia viewers meskia Johnny it's a no even if these ladies are accomplished they're well-read they don't want anything to do with paying dowry and from our last man over here I need to ask a personal question are you comfortable with a woman paying dowry for you are you comfortable with that as a man I'm okay because to me dowry is not paramount so they're okay with this this is a fact normally men are not okay with a woman to do nothing apart from cooking and giving birth I'm trying to back up my statement okay back it up quickly and then we shut the show down to me dowry is not paramount whoever gives whether it's me or her what's paramount is love about the dowry I don't care because dowry will fade dowry will fail but you know your parents care my parents care as long as you're an African you look African to me I'm sure your parents care my parents are not dating the girl it's me who's dating the girl so life is what it's about you guys it looks like it's a type to fight for a woman it looks like a type to say this is my baby man we're not doing this thank you so much thank you so much I've had such a wonderful time with all the viewers and all these panelists have had this discussion with us about dowry I just wanted to live with one thing love like Mr. Simba said love is very important love is a basis of marriage and if you find you can't pay the dowry you need to ask yourself am I willing to treat this man with respect the rest of our life even if you can't pay a single cent for me will I treat him with respect will I cook for him clean for him carry that kid for nine months and the men need to ask themselves since I can't pay this woman's dowry and if I can't pay it since I can't pay her dowry what am I going to do for her to make things more comfortable for her in the house can I be helping her a bit more can I be chipping in a bit more just so that she understands for me it's not about money for me it's about the love so with that let's sign out my name is Joy Machache this has been why in the morning and this has been Queens Wednesday specifically WCM and please remember that we need to hear from you that's on Y254 channel and that is Y254 channel underscore Y254 channel on Instagram and on Twitter that is Y254 channel subscribe and watch this interview again on YouTube on Y254 channel my social media handles are Joy underscore Machache how about you Nora Diambu Nora at Diambu okay how about you favorite the favorite on Facebook and the favorite on Instagram alright my Facebook handle and Instagram handle is Betty Malakwin okay at Aldrin everywhere at Aldrin everywhere okay thank you so much have a lovely lovely morning