 The recent local government elections in Edo state where the governing People's Democratic Party recorded a landslide victory demonstrates the need for governors to loosen up their grip on local governments for them to perform their constitutional roles across many states. The local government councils seem to be under tight grip of ruling parties of those states whereby the party in power wins all the seats even when they lose in the national elections. Expectedly too, opposition parties report allegations of voter suppression, harassment and results manipulation. These types of elections, the new norm in Nigeria and how can we combat this sham election? Joining us to discuss this is Kunle Laval, he's the Executive Director of the Electoral College in Nigeria. It's so good to have you join us. Kunle, good evening. Can you hear me Kunle? Yes, I'm here. I can hear you. Perfect. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes, because we don't have too much time, let's go straight to it. The issue of local governments and state governments especially continuously, it's seeming like they have no powers constitutionally to do their jobs except by the directive of state governors has been an issue that's been discussed right from under the Obasanjo administration. Almost at the close of that administration we also saw that local government elections were now optional for certain states and their governors and here we are today, was debating the issue of states carrying the day, whatever party is at the center, carrying all of, you know, having a landslide victory during elections. How easy will it be to be able to loosen that grip that state governments have over local governments? Kunle, can you hear me? So for me, this topic I'm always interested in. It's always, yes, I can hear you. This is a topic I've always been interested in and the local governments generally have always been clouded by the fact that the people, that's the electorate do not care. So you have participation in local government at less than 9%. Now, this is a big issue when you're looking at it technically. There's nowhere in the constitution that grants autonomy to states, but states are asking for a place in the constitution for local governments to be granted autonomy. This is upon the fact they are being given power over security over their local governments. They are being given power over markets, parks. They are able to attack businesses and control outdoor advertising within local government. And it's clear to see at this point that there is no local government in Nigeria that receives less than 130 million Naira per month from the FACA locations. So the question there is, what has happened? Well, that's also a big question to ask. But let's also look at, because again, if there is no oversight, most times if you go to local government offices, for example, issues such as sanitation and several other things, you know, local taxation, half the time when people go to their local government chairman or the local government offices, they keep saying, oh, the state governments are not giving us money. The state government is not letting us do this. The state government is not letting us do that. So maybe, yes, these monies have been put in the local government accounts, but they do not necessarily have the powers to disperse and use as they should if their principal, the governor says not to. So the truth is that there is nowhere it is written where local state governments control the funds of local governments. What is in the constitution is that on economic planning, local governments and state governments can come together on a cohesive front to do something that's instrumental in the state. But what has happened, as you've seen in, let's say, the case of Ogun state, it kidnapped the local government funds entirely. And you know, through the ministry of entire local government affairs. And that is where the demand money is from local governments, which are paid from federal directly to local government. So this machination always happens at state government level. And one of the things I think is the cause of this is that I think in its space of restructuring has also handed over local government elections to states. And because they take those elections, they dictate its outcomes and also dictate the service of local government. So there are two things that come into play here. First, the electorate's non-performance local government, that's the local government at the first time of democracy to the people, yet we have less than a 9% participation in local government elections across board. And then governors now driving on that same parameter that the people do not care about the local government to stifle and kidnap its funds. I'll be honest and state clearly that in the case of Ogun state, when this local government chairman refused to give money back to the to the state, they actually activated something that most of us think is dead. And that is councillors as a legislative arm of local government and suspended or has taken out now the local government chairman in Ogun state has refused to perform. So local... For that local government chairman, I have heard his interview twice. And he's talked about the fact that he challenged, you know, certain things that the governor did. And then, of course, like you said, this triggered the councillors voting against him and then, of course, asking for his removal. Now, all of these things happened. Again, it's the ignorance of the people that these politicians are capitalizing on. Because when you tell the average person or you ask the average person, do you know your councillor? Do you know the supervisor for education in your local government? Or many of them have no idea. I've heard a case where a local government chairman does not live in his local government, comes into the local government on a Monday stays in a hotel for the whole week and then on the weekend goes back to his family. How is he supposed to be in touch with what's happening in his community? And how are the people supposed to reach him if he operates from a hotel? I think I think this problem starts from the top and you cannot alienate even the fact that 99 Nigerian federal government decided to build a house or build an estate for people serving in the House of Rep and the Senate, stopping them from interacting with their constituents. And this goes down line to every other state, every other sphere. So what you're seeing, the anomalies you're seeing in local government is actually reminiscent of what happens upstairs at the federal level. Let's talk about redeeming what's left of what we call a local government. I think to add that what's most confusing is that you find state governors asking for... Go ahead. Kunle, can you hear me? I think you are having a very terrible network today. Let me just ask my last question so we can wrap this up. Unfortunately, you keep going on and off. How do we begin to redeem? Where do we start to redeem what's left of what we call local government, especially election wise? Because if you are the one who puts the man there, you're able to go to him for accountability. Education of the electorate is really key. What most of us do not know is that even at local government level, local governments at every level, that's the chairman and the councilors, are not even guarded by immunity. So it means that these monies which are being taken in directly and which are being kidnapped by these state governors, the federal government chairman can go to jail for these purposes and even the councilors. So I think first thing we need to educate the electorate, then first the electorate to hold them accountable and participate more in its elections, then we could get something from local government. Great. How do we also... Yes, we can be educated. Just for example, let me take for example the February elections, the presidential elections. Many people were educated. Many people were called out to come get their PBCs, go out and vote. The process will be seamless. It will be free, fair, and credible, even though many question if we've ever had free, fair, and credible elections in this country. But as much as people were educated, they still showed up to the elections. And many would still say the elections somewhat was a sham for them. There are others who would say also this election was credible. There are some who would say that the elections were skewed. Even if people get educated about this local government's elections, there's still that strong arm of the state government. How do we make sure that their hand does not become too strong? So for me, there's a very big difference. For me, there's a very big difference between education or participation of people in voting, which is voter awareness, and then education of what actually happens in politics. Most people not know what the House of Rep does, what the local government chairman does. They don't know that the councillors are of course the National Assembly of the local government. It is that education that needs to happen before we can begin to engage other systems. You can't engage a system you do not understand. And as regards the elections, there were many anomalies preceding the elections in the electoral act, like looking at submission of party members electronically and the hard copies which are not done by the 18 political parties, which was totally ignored by the Nigerian populace. And then at the end, you want a free and fair election. How can you do that? So for me, I critically say you cannot engage a system you do not understand. Well, Kunle, I wish we had more time to talk more on this issue, but we will revisit the issue of local governments and their importance subsequently. But I want to say thank you. Kunle Lawal is Executive Director, Electoral College Nigeria. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. We appreciate it. Well, that's the show tonight. That's the show tonight. We want to thank you all for being part of our conversation tonight. We'll be back tomorrow on Bloss Politics, talking for development. I am Mary-Anna Kunle. Go on YouTube plus TV Africa and play catch up on all our previous episodes. Have a good evening.