 This is State Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. I'm Marcia Joyner and we are navigating the journey. So, if you're ready, join us. Today our journey is not far away and long ago, but right here and now. We have a very special guest. Bill, or William, either one is fine. I think of him as Bill. Bill is currently the Deputy Director of Hawaiian Homelands. That's correct. And so welcome to the show, Bill. And we are delighted to have you, especially had to run all the way from out in the country to be with us. Thank you, Marcia, for your patience and also thank you for all the years of service to environmental justice issues, civil rights issues in Hawaii. We've been together on that path for a long time. You have made life better in Hawaii for everyone. Aren't you so sweet. Bill is, like he says, we've been friends for a long time when he was out at the Boat Harbor. Yes. When he was in charge. And that's the job I always wanted. Not that anybody would hire me, but that was the job I always wanted. And then you ran for governor. Yes, 2006. And the next job was? The Governor Abercrombie decided to appoint me for the Chairman of the Department of Land and Natural Resources. Now that's an interesting. Land and Natural Resources is the department and then there's a commission within that. Yes, it's called the Board of Land and Natural Resources. So were you both? I was a chair of both. Of both. How does that work? The statutory language that controls the agency sets up the Board of Land and Natural Resources as the authority, the decision making body. So as a chair of that decision making body of seven members, we created policy and made decisions on land dispositions and federal spending and things like that. Whatever the Board decided to delegate to the chair of the agency, that would be me, was also my responsibility for carrying out. Now that is probably the biggest department in the state of Hawaii in terms of reach and areas of responsibility. I would think so since the land is all of the state of Hawaii. How many islands are there? Well, eight main islands. Other than the main islands? No, if you count all the little ones, it's in the hundreds. And then if you count the county of Honolulu, it actually goes all the way up to Qirei. Right. More than 2,500 linear miles. Miles. Yeah. And so that's a big department. It is, but it was a fun place to work because people, as with Hawaiian Homes, people in the department really cared about what they were doing and were committed to trying to make things better. Let me ask you a loaded question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. How do you know all of the land, all of the valleys, the mountains, the rivers, the streams? How do you know all of that? How do you survey or is there a record of all of that? I think in both institutions, the Department of Land and Natural Resources and in the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, we have a staff that has a wide area of institutional memory. So knowing of all the valleys and of all the lands is certainly something that you can have on maps, but the more important thing is to have people be able to tell you what the history of, the use of those areas are and what the special things are of those areas that we need to protect. So there's so many places that have the same name? Yes. On different islands with the same name. And so Waimea Valley, if you say Waimea Valley, well there's one of those on each island. Kauai on Oahu and on Hawai'i Island. Yes. So how do you know the difference? Is there a way to say, to make a difference? So they serve different purposes, they have different histories, different mythologies. All of the above and in terms of trying to keep it straight for government work, so to speak, you have that comma and then you have the island behind it. But then from a cultural perspective, if you are aware of the differences, it's easy to understand because each has its own set of Mo'olelo and stories and each has its own sort of geographic differences about it. So Waimea on Oahu, of course, is famous for the priesthood retreating to Waimea Valley as the kapus were done away with. Oh really? Yes, and then you have Waimea on Hawai'i Island and it's known for Parker Ranch and that part of Hawai'i's history. And then Waimea on the island of Kauai is known currently for agriculture production but in the past having the beautiful mountain sides where sugar was planted and probably on Kauai the most productive sugarcane lands. Speaking of Kauai, and what is left? What's left? What was damaged? What is left? All of those sacred places, did we lose any of them? The assessments are just coming in now, so we're not to that level of detail. We do know that the flooding impacted a lot of structures. We haven't got to the point to determine what its impact is on endangered plants or endangered birds or things like that. That'll come after. The first thing is to make sure everybody's safe and then make sure that the mode of transportation is restored to the Haena area and the valleys between Hanalei and Haena. So that's going through. The department just did a big clearing of Keiko'o Bridge above Anahola to making sure that in case any rains should fall from now on that the bridge and the drainage under the bridge is able to be safe. So in these big, like the Big Island and the volcano and the flood on Kauai what is the department's position in all that? Are you on the ground or what did the Department of Natural Resources do? The Department of Natural Resources is certainly first on the ground because it has heavy equipment, usually attached to its forestry department or division that's available for immediate life and limb saving those kinds of things. The Department of Hawaiian homelands, we don't have a lot of heavy equipment so we're more secondary places to place green waste, things like that. The Department of Defense of course, State Department of Defense takes over and utilizes each department's resources as it sees best to address the immediate concerns. Well, now what is the difference in Hawaiian homes, Hawaiian homelands, what you're working with, and the Department of Land and Natural Resources? So the department is all Hawaiian land, right? Well, it's all crown lands generally, but in 1921 the U.S. Congress decided that at the urging of Prince Cahill and others that for the rehabilitation of the Hawaiian race because of the rapid decline in population and the movement to urban areas that the program of resettling native Hawaiians back on the land was very, very important. So Congress set aside 200,000 acres of land for homesteading use. There are three types of homesteading leases. You have pastorial, you have agriculture, and you have residents. So for example, in Kapolei, you see all of those really beautiful homes, those are residential. Then you see in the big island where we have a lot more land, you see big, large pastorial lots where... Excuse me, what's a pastorial lot? A pastoral lot is where basically people ranch and they farm either cattle or sheep or goats or commercial purposes or subsistence purposes. So agriculture would be either for subsistence purposes or for commercial purposes. Now with Hawaiian homes, who do you lease or sell? How does that work? Okay, so when Congress set the program up, it created what they call a native Hawaiian qualification. So in order to receive the first initial issuance of a lease, you have to be 50% native Hawaiian. The department goes through a process and looks at historical records, birth certificate, census records to make that determination. So if you're eligible, there's a long wait list and people on the wait list get offered lots as they become available. Now when you say offered a lot, is that for sale, is it for lease? It's leasehold and generally it's a dollar per year for 99 years. Then there's a provision in the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act that allows that third or fourth generation family as long as they have the native Hawaiian qualifications to apply to the commission. This is the Hawaiian Homes Commission now for another 100 years. So within a family you could have occupancy of a plot of land for up to 199 years. Oh, okay. So then you could build a house. You can build a house on ag and pastoral. You can build a house and do either subsistence or commercial farming or ranching. And the whole idea behind that was in 1921 was to get people settled back on the land and to reestablish for native Hawaiians that relationship between the land and the leadership at that time saw native Hawaiians drifting away to the urban areas, disease, short lifespan. They also saw the land being neglected. So the vision was so strong about solving the two problems. So they created this homesteading program. Okay, we need to take a break. And when we come back, we're talking with my dear friend, and everybody knows I only talk to dear friends. We're talking to Bill Isla, and he is formerly with the Department of Land and Natural Resources and now with Hawaiian homelands. That's correct. And so we'll be right back. Thank you. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. I just walked by and I said, what's happening, guys? They told me they were making music. Play, so any chance you play at all, you know, that's my life. If so, watch my show on Tuesdays at one called Out of the Comfort Zone. I sang this song to you because I think you either are cool or have the potential to be seriously cool. And I want you to come watch my show where I bring in experts who talk all about easy strategies to be healthier, happier, build better relationships, and make your life a success. So come sit with the cool kids at Out of the Comfort Zone on Tuesdays at one. See you then. Aloha. I'm Marcia, and we are back. We're talking with my dear friend, Bill Isla, who is Native Hawaiian, an environmentalist, a community activist, a Native Hawaiian culture practitioner. That's where I learned a lot from him. And you will also crew on the Hokulea for a minute or two. Yes. Short trips around the islands. Not the long voyaging stuff, but can I add two more things? Sure. Or maybe three more. I'm a father, a grandfather, and now a great-grandfather. So that makes all of those other things much more important now in terms of doing much right for the future. I have a great-grandson. I remember this meeting that you went to in the Pacific, and you were the only one that spoke all the languages of all of the participants. I got through it. I could understand each other. Most of the languages. And I thought, that is so great to have somebody in that position that can communicate with these other people. Without you, what happens with the small island nations? You know, what's really interesting is the climate change issue really has been driven by the small island nations, because they have the most to lose. In fact, some of them have already lost emergent land. So this brings into question many things like sovereignty. What happens to their sovereignty? What happens to their exclusive economic zone? And because we have a past relationship with Pacific Islanders and Islanders all over the world, I think they're looking to us here in Hawaii to help spread that message and to help find solutions. And so that's a wonderful thing about Hawaii being able to act as a place for Pacific Islanders and Islanders worldwide to come, which we had the World Conservation Congress here two years ago, and created a lot of good relationships and a lot of dialogue. And for me, the personal success was all the scientists and all the cultural people went home to other parts of the world and began talking about this term. This term called biocultural resources. Because they were seen as either environmental resources or cultural resources. But in order for any culture to flourish, you have to have the biology that's part of the practices and part of the materials for the practices. So that was a personal win for me. Have we lost the cultural practices with this influx of tourism, which it's a reality. Have we lost that? I wouldn't say we've lost it, but we have to be very careful that we don't commercialize it. So the best example I can give you is a young person, Kani or Wahine, doing hula. So let's take the Wahine, for example, because I've seen it in many shows where they have traditional kahiko hula, and then they have sort of modern hula, which is the pretty girl dancing in the cellophane skirt with a coconut broth. One is entertainment, one is culture. And we have to be very careful that we don't blend those two ideas. Let's hope that day is gone, the tinsel skirts. Now, you are going, I saw an ad that you were going to run for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. So, tell me what that decision is about. That decision is really about, I think we Native Hawaiians and all of the people that live in Hawaii are really at a turning point. You can feel the energy that change is going to come and big change is going to come. So given the recent bad publicity for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs in terms of how monies have been spent and how they've been allocated, I felt that it was the right time to bring the skills that I've acquired over a number of years into the Office of Hawaiian Affairs to try to see if we can do a couple of things. One is to restore civility, because we have to be a good example for our children and our grandchildren. We can agree to disagree, but we can do it civilly. It used to be that way and it needs to return to be that way. The second thing is to provide to the beneficiaries as well as to everyone in Hawaii the accountability for how the Office of Hawaiian Affairs is operated and then making it, of course, as transparent as possible. There are some things that can't be transparent because you discuss them in executive session or they're part of a legal lawsuit, but as much as you can answer to the people of Hawaii, the people of OHA, what's going on? Now, in 1978 after it was decided we're going to have Office of Hawaiian Affairs and everybody was running and everybody was excited about it. Where is that excitement? Where is that energy that even though I'm not Hawaiian, everybody was enthused, everybody was a part of having that happen? What happened? Where did that energy, that excitement about this entity? I think the energy is still there. Of course, as an agency grows, it becomes more bureaucratic. So we need to take a look at the bureaucracy and see how we can be more efficient in getting the resources to the people. The energy is certainly there if you take a look at immersion language programs, charter schools, which OHA is a strong supporter of. Protecting the rights of Native Hawaiians for cultural practices, gathering water rights since OHA has come into inception, you've basically had a re-recognition of Hawaiians and the Department of Hawaiian Homeland rights to water as an entity that has a slightly higher priority in the water code. So the implementation of the water code as it was written also in 1978 so that there's a more fair sharing of water resources in Hawaii and the protection of traditional and customary practices through the protection of the watershed and near shore resources. So it's still there. I think OHA needs to do a better job of telling that story because it has had very many successes in the past. Of course, the world is much more complicated today and as we face future challenges with climate change and things like that, we're going to have to adapt and maybe change policies or be quicker in communicating the needs. Now, what is Madam Pele's sister on Kauai? Well, Madam Pele's sister, that's the most famous one, is Hiiaka. Okay. Hiiaka and Madam Pele are trying to tell us something. They're trying to tell us that we have not been good stewards of this land. How do we, can OHA take a lead in a, we have to respect the land, we have to be good stewards, better stewards. How can we, well, I guess that's... No, I think OHA has in the past. I don't know what I meant, but maybe communicate that because obviously we're not getting that. So how do you, you are running for OHA and if I asked you that as a candidate, what's your answer? How do we reach people so they understand we have to do better? Okay, so... Madam Pele is really trying to tell us something. So in the generation that has grown up since the creation of OHA, I think you've seen a huge increase in the recognition of doing things ponon. Reflective of increases in funding for the protection of our watersheds, increasing in, of funding to protect traditional and customary practices, but OHA can't do it alone, right? So OHA is going to have to partner with the Department of Homeland Home Lands, the Department of Land and Natural Resources, the Legislature, even with private foundations such as commandment schools. And you can see their programs changing where there's a lot more emphasis on doing what's ponon for the land and for the ocean. So it's going to be partnering with all of the entities that are available which will help us overcome the issue of improving. Okay. Another big question for you since you're going to be on the ballot. What about the CONCON? How do you feel about constitutional convention? Is it yay or nay? Because on the ballot it only gives you an option of yes or no. How do you feel about that? Well, I'm sort of torn on it because I think it provides opportunity, but it also provides danger. It does. Danger in reversing some of the protections of the 1978 Constitutional Convention, which created the Water Code, which created the Office of Hawaiian Affairs and created protection for labor and protection for a lot of things here in Hawaii. So the danger is if there is one that there'll be a push to roll back some of those protections and some of those improvements. I wonder if young people understand. Not having gone through those issues, I don't think they fully understand the consequences. Consequences. I guess that's what I'm saying. Yes. If depending on who gets elected and what are the documents that come out of a CONCON, an impact on the average person's life here in Hawaii, including Native Hawaiians. Since you are an environmentalist and a Native Hawaiian cultural practitioner. Oh, that's a lot of words. It is. So your being, your whole being is to protect and care for the land? Yes. So in campaigning, do you mention the CONCON? You personally. The CONCON, is this yes or no? And if it's a yes, the dangers? Do you go there? I haven't to this point because the CONCON is something that the people of the state of Hawaii are going to have to choose on. But I would, so the status quo of course is not perfect, but we're evolving to fix many of the problems. So I think personally I would answer it this way. I'm not in favor of a CONCON right now because I think the environment, and I'm really concerned about the impacts on social media. I am. Because there's not, with social media, there's not a lot of time to fact check. Right. And when you do fundamental change to the way that we govern, you need to take the time to seriously consider the consequences, both positive and negative. But if there is a CONCON, if you can't stop it, and the people of Hawaii decide that they want to do that, then we have to make sure we elect people who remember this Kuliana, this responsibility, to protect native rights, the environment, the laborers, hard work. I was a union member for 24 years. And it gave me the opportunity to raise a family and help my son go to school. And so there are lots of good things that are in the current Constitution of the state of Hawaii that we have to keep. I agree with you. And now one last question, because we have a minute left. What does it mean to run at large? That is where you're running at large. Yes. What does that mean? So it means that in this particular election cycle, there are three at-large candidates that are up for re-election. How many at-large candidates? Four altogether. There's four altogether. And then there's four that represent each island. Actually, I should say that. There's five altogether and four that represent the islands. But they're all voted upon statewide. So in this particular election, in the primary, the top six will move to the general, unless someone gets 51% of the vote in which they would automatically be in. So I can vote for... You can vote for three at-large. And then you'll be able to vote for the Oahu Island representative and the Maui Island representative. Oh. Statewide. Even though I don't live on Maui, I can still... That is correct. That is how it was written in the election. All right. We need to take a look at that and see if it's still applicable. Yeah. Well, so I do appreciate you rushing to get here, flying over the traffic and whatnot. Safely. So, thank you. Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure being with you. You will come back and tell us more. Sure. Marcia, anytime you want to know about anything, absolutely. Thank you. Aloha. Aloha.