 My name is Mike Moro. I am with Learning Times. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. I'll be your technical producer. And before we get started, just to go over a few things for the Zoom platform, we'll notice at the bottom of your screen that there is both a chat as well as a Q&A option. If you wish to provide any comments or let us know where you're coming in from, tell us what the weather is like where you are today. Feel free to use the chat. And if you have questions for our presenters, we encourage you to please use the Q&A and that way we'll be able to facilitate the questions in a much easier way. You'll also find that the closed captioning is available by clicking the CC live transcript button at the bottom of your screen and selecting show subtitle. We're also offering the CLT interpretation services. And so if you require those services and require assistance, let us know in the chat. We will help you out as well. If you require tech support, please let us know in the chat and I'll be happy to help you. So with that, Mike will turn it over to our host, Robin Bauer-Kilgo. Hi everyone. My name is Robin Bauer-Kilgo and I am the CDC care coordinator. I'm going to go ahead and share my screen for a brief intro. And this is the time of the year that I usually don't like to talk about my weather because as many of you know, I'm located in the Florida Keys. So I will just say it's hot because I think that's a good description of what my weather is always like. We are here today for new tools of the trade. And before I start, I would like to acknowledge that this webinar is being moderated on the traditional lands of the Mikosuke and Seminole people and their ancestors. And I pay my respect to elders both past and present. I'm going to go through this introduction pretty quickly and then we're going to go ahead and get started on our presentation today. Again, my name is Robin Bauer-Kilgo. I am the CDC care coordinator and you just saw Mike Morneau. He is our senior producer at learning times. If you have any questions related to technical stuff throughout the webinar, please feel free to talk to us down in that chat box. This is our home on the web connecting to collections.org. On the website, you will see all sorts of fun things like future programming that we have for CDC care and archive of our webinars and courses and also links to our community. So I would encourage you to go to that website if you have any questions about our program. We do have one right now upcoming webinar for 2022. We're actually in the process of planning a lot. We're planning up through May right now, but one's definitely on the books. It's on January 19. It's on introduction to digital collections management. So we encourage you to go ahead and sign up for that webinar if you're interested. As usual, all of our monthly webinars are free. We also have two places on social media that we have found the home at that you can find out information about our upcoming programming. One is on Facebook. The other one is on Twitter. Both of our call signs are at CDC care. As Mike said, as an attendee, you have two ways to communicate to us throughout the webinar. We have our chat box. The chat box is a place to say hello again. Talk about your weather or anything else you would like to talk about during the actual program itself. The Q&A box is for questions. So if you have a question for any of our presenters at any time, I encourage you to use that Q&A box. It's a little easier for us to track the questions throughout the webinar and you can actually put a question in there whenever you want. So feel free to do it when one pops into your head. We are lucky enough to have three presenters today. We are going to be learning about some new tools that have been developed recently by some of our colleagues to help us with collections assessment and health and safety and all sorts of fun stuff. So we encourage you to kind of play along while you can during the webinar I'm going to be putting links in the chat where you guys can actually get versions of the tools that our presenters are going to be talking about. So please do grab those links, download the documents, take a look. I encourage you to do it. Sometimes I know for me at least it's easier to understand these tools as you kind of are learning about them. So I would encourage you to do it at this time. Our first presenter is Leslie Lange. She is strategic research and program manager with over 15 years of experience at managing national initiatives that address the needs of libraries, museums and other heritage institutions. And it's a currently associate research scientist in the library trends and user research office of OCLC research. She's going to be showing us a collection care assessment tool today so we're excited to see it so Leslie whenever you're ready feel free to take over and after her presentations will roll into the next one. Thanks and see you at the end. Hello and thank you. Get everything set up. Everyone can see my screen I hope. Okay. Alrighty. Well, thank you so much for having me today. This has been a long time coming. I feel like I am really, really excited to share this information with you and also to have it publicly available on the web, so that you can access it. Whenever you want, and also to kind of get this overview. So there is a website associated with this presentation, as well as this slide deck available at collections. Sorry, collections care index.com. And I know that some people have already been clicking on those links and sort of popping in there. Feel free to do that during the presentation, if that makes sense to you. So that's what it feels like. I actually worked alongside the sea to see staff back when I worked at heritage preservation, which is a little bit about the history of this project. And so I am sort of thrilled to also be back in this community a little bit more neatly with bringing something that I feel like is really important contribution, I think to the field and carries forward a big legacy. So what we've talked about today is the ways that we measure and the ways that we monitor how we're performing collections care responsibilities, especially the tools that we're using to do so. And it is a multifaceted practice and requires quite a bit of knowledge about various aspects of the collection, where they're stored and how they're supported through staff time and budget. It's sometimes the responsibility of multiple staff to have a full picture, but in a lot of cases, especially in the US, but all over the world, it can fall to on the shoulders of a single person. So, there is some big perspective I think in this presentation as well as in this tool to be able to address the needs of the broad community for everybody. So help me. As Robin mentioned, I have been working in for the cultural heritage sector. I mostly focus on data analysis data management and data visualization as well as program evaluation from time to time. I have a pretty broad skill set in terms of research. And I've been doing this for about 15 or so years now. I came into the collections care community through the heritage preservation nonprofit that I worked at almost 15 years ago now, or sorry, 10 years ago, when Larry Rieger hired me to manage the study for the heritage health information study. The presentation towards research and analysis aligned with Larry's vision that collections care is important to all collections, no matter their size or value, and helping anyone to do better is the best way to ensure that objects are preserved for the future. Many of the programs that Larry spearheaded, like heritage health information, had the same ethos, which is, if you care about it heritage preservation cared about it. And I, like Larry want folks in the field to be empowered to find the right tool they need to perform collections care at their level, because of the work that I do has been mostly centered as you can see in some of these national organizations. I also believe that things that are supported by public tax dollars ought to be free and accessible for everyone. So why is this important. Okay, so as I said, Larry championed the, champion the ethos that if you care about it, then you should have access to all the education and resources that help you to care for your collections. So heritage preservation closed its doors permanently in 2015. This type of overview that I'm doing today was not quite yet possible. The data that I'm using for this study and for this tool development is really the 2014 study that I was hired to manage that during those years and that data has recently been released by IMLS. And in 2019, there's a full report and the data set available from the IMLS website. It's important that we make clear that there are choices for keeping up with what collections care responsibilities we have, and also identifying the manageable ways that can be adopted by anyone. The overview in this presentation today includes many ways that are free and at no cost to you, including one that I developed, and we know that collections care cannot be done in a vacuum, and that people should be able to use multiple resources to continue to guide their ongoing management. We have also seen evidence that collections care management is both hard and worthwhile. Here you can see that an estimated nearly 50% of institutions in the US do not perform conditions assessments on their collections with a relatively small percentage reporting that they have performed a condition assessment through though with no regularity. But we also know that there are programs and there are other tools available to people and you can see that there's evidence that programs like the museum assessment program or map helps people in their collection stewardship and helps to improve practice. So what I've listed here are some common ways that we tend to measure. They have different pros and cons and they can all be sort of done sometimes with just your time, sometimes it's with money and sometimes it's really just about regularity. So it really depends on what you're looking for and how it is you want to delve deeper into it. The fourth one here, the index is the one that I'm going to talk about that I developed. But first I'm going to kind of walk you through how this bigger ecosystem actually live, or how it exists. Okay. So I'm putting these up here, kind of as a contrast to each other because I want you to sort of see how it is that they can work together. So these common three tools are all available to you sort of at the moment, right, you can see that this ecosphere is a really well rounded, and it provides ways for institutions funders boards and others to get insights into how collections care responsibilities are carried out. Those of you who are CAP assessors, or have gotten a CAP assessment will be familiar with some of these things. Those of you who have been through the map program will also be familiar with some of the things that I'm listing. There's a lot of self selection in terms of finding and utilizing what works best for you. And some of these things, like I said, are at free to no cost. These are just some of the ones that I know make their way into people's hands a lot more frequently and definitely the ones that are continuously funded to help support collections care. So, these are persistent. And I think that's kind of one of the most important things about them. I've already talked about a little bit about the things happening on the left hand side. Other things that you might be familiar with are in the middle section. There's a SLH with the steps program. Obviously this program and this community. There's a preservation self assessment website that's still hosted and persistent and is quite detailed. But there's also classes that you can take to two from other organizations that I've listed here. And the one on the right hand side survey is kind of a different sort of way in which we measure, because these things are about giving a big overview picture. And like I talked about the heritage health information study was something that was initially funded through grants to heritage preservation to conduct. There might be some interest in doing additional work for collecting that kind of information, but especially because it does not have a peer study at the moment. The preservation statistics that you see further down from both ALA and also ARL are different in the way that they are not as comprehensive about this practice, but these are the ways in which we can kind of understand our big national picture. Okay, so let's talk about the thing that I did. The tool that I developed aims to bring simplicity to the measurement aspect of collections care. And we all need a checkup periodically and one way to do that is to employ a checklist of habits or behaviors that we can tell about our doctor tell to our doctor. And so collections care is not a medical checkup so I'm not trying to scare anybody it's not a test. But the heritage health information survey, when it was created aimed at being a periodical a periodic physical sorry for collections care that would provide detailed data on a myriad aspects of care that are ongoing that need work, and to identify the condition of the surveys though generally serve a higher person on the ladder than most of us. HHI and preservation statistics like I mentioned are really about maybe giving the board a bigger picture or really what they ended up doing is allowing big funders like IMLS and NEH to understand where they would dedicate new programming or support for education and resources. C2C care is an example of that sort of ongoing effort to provide the kind of resources at no cost that improve people's ability to care for their collections, and it's supported through ongoing grant money. The index I created is based on the HHI survey questionnaire and it takes the approach that institutions need to have a physical, perhaps more often than a national survey might be able to provide and with more regularity than they would otherwise. It's also effectively a tool that you can use as an individual at your own institution. It's not serving the higher person on the ladder it might just be something that you do because you need a regular level of record keeping about what you're doing at your own institutions, or it might be something that you keep as internal documentation within your department or for your director, so that you have something that allows you to measure your practice year on year. The index is kind of a little bit of a weird one, and it's, it's a somewhat complicated to explain but it's actually really easily understood. So that's why I'm using it. Effectively, an index is a way of compiling a single score from a variety of questions or statements that represent a belief, a feeling or a concept. There's a pretty well known one, especially in the US called the consumer price index. And that is capturing a lot of different questions and the prices of different consumer goods across the country. An average is tabulated. That allows us to know what the price of a certain good like oranges or gas or paper or internet, all these sorts of things have measurement to them, and they're captured periodically to understand how the trend lines sort of change, right? It's important because we want to know in the big picture whether or not they were creeping prices for consumer goods, things that had an effect on people's buying habits, the ways in which important export is done. And frankly for inflation, right, if in case there's something that can be seen that's coming on the horizon that maybe legislators want to provide an intervention for. The world happiness index, I believe is still being collected by the World Bank. And that takes a lot of different questions about the measures of people's social lives and also their financial lives to understand how it is we actually believe we are happy. It's a really interesting way in which to understand a kind of difficult concept, something that maybe you don't think is easy to measure because it's kind of, I don't know, for lack of a better words kind of squishy. But the reality is that we're able to actually ask a lot of different varied questions and then we can tally them together and get, you know, sort of a single comprehensive way of understanding all of those things together. I know, for example, there's been some conversation at one time about creating a religiosity at index wherein you would look at, you know, how many people are identified as religious and belonging to a religion, you might ask those as separate questions. You might ask about what does attendance look like by comparison to the number of people who identify as religious, and then the number of houses of worship. Some things like this would allow you to kind of see like a holistic picture of how it is that one single score might describe this concept of religiosity. And for this index, because HHI itself is a national survey that has over 100 questions. I was able to really utilize this one tool, this one source already that existed that something I was very familiar with to kind of provide a more discreet way of us being able to do that kind of regular check-in. I'll talk a little bit more about the source data in just a minute. I also kind of want to situate how this works in this ecosystem. The collections care index is sort of one part regular check-up so it's a little bit of a self assessment, but it looks like a survey. So it's actually a pretty easy way to sort of say like yes, no, don't know, or yes to this question, or this answer from A or B choices, you know, but not C and D. It allows you to kind of go through and kind of really reflect, I think, on certain simple questions, things that have also been tested, and allow you to kind of like understand how it is you would get there. But it sort of sits in this in between place, which is important, I think, because it can trigger, you know, a lot of reflection on what it is that you might want to do as the next step. So one of the beautiful things about creating an index also that has fewer than 100 questions and is a self assessment tool is that it's a really parsimonious approach. It creates the best and most easily understood way for people to be able to approach this. One of the things that we learned from HHI 2004 the very first time the survey was fielded. And then when I came into the project in 2014 was that 100 plus questions of that survey questionnaire are just too difficult to answer on a regular basis. A lot of people said, I really like the idea of doing the deep dive. And they want to do it more regularly but they don't dedicate the time to do so. And, you know, I think that's important that we understand where people are at and understanding that a lot of people are busy, or they have change in staffing or focus. So a lot of those different things can have a knock on effect for how it is that we all want to be able to do better. And I want people to be able to have what is effectively the best, maybe simplest is not the right word, but the best way in which to approach the light footed approach, right. Some of the big takeaways that I think are good for folks is that organizations can benchmark their practice. Fundraising can be informed by what it is you're doing and how it is you're measuring your, your work on a regular basis. And then again with the self assessment about what is it that you need to know, what are your self assessment goals for your staff or for yourself about different areas that maybe this index allows you to understand. So the source data for this. I've talked a little bit about this study, thus far in a couple of these different slides so I kind of want to give you just the broad overview of this. If you wanted to delve a little bit deeper into this particular study. It is available on the IMLS website with the data set like I said, I think there's also an infographic and some other things. So there's a really technical sort of research report there for you to kind of understand it. The reason why this study is really important is that I did compare it to a lot of other national studies. There was a study in the UK called knowing the need from years ago. And preservation statistics for some of the other studies that I looked at to understand what are the things that make HHI stand out and how robust are the questions on this before I really think about using this as an index. And it turns out that this questionnaire has a lot of different topics and from any way from the damage to collections to the education of your staff to whether or not you educate the public, whether or not you have full time part time volunteer staff, all of the sort of things you might think of for collections care already like environmental controls for relative humidity and light, or gosh the conditions assessment really of all the different types of items you might have across all different kinds of collections. So it's a really robust tool like I said it has over 100 questions. I recommend you check it out. The other thing that that having this data set associated with this questionnaire allowed me to do was also look a little bit more under the hood about how it is that these questions actually performed when they were being answered by people in the field. So that data set is a really robust data set of all these different types of institutions across the country. It also has a lot of representation of us states and territories, and it has a pretty healthy number there you can see in terms of responses. This is the distilled list of topics that I picked for the index. This is based on doing that comparison. What I did, you know, in looking at the literature and looking at the comparison there is like what are the things that people can always answer. What are the things that, and the questions that are sort of at the core and the heart of what it is that collections care practices look like across these different other measurement tools these bigger survey tools that people are already employing every once in a while like every 10 years. And these are the ones that are consistent across all of them. You know there's an icon or icon study that focuses mostly on storage and asks a little bit about some of these things. Knowing the need asked about a lot of these things but not all so there's like a way in which they kind of all sort of overlap but it turns out that HHI is actually the best place to get all of the questions and all of the topics. Because of the construction of the questionnaire, I was able to also get a little bit more in terms of detail. So the index itself is constructed pretty closely to the ways in which the questions are constructed on the HHI 2014 questionnaire, because there are 12 topical questions, and then there's a lot of follow ups as well. And so that allows me to also understand a little bit more about the richness, and frankly about for the institution to understand a little bit more about its richness and how much it is doing for each one of those practices. I did, if you're following along with some of the technical aspects of building an index, I did have to check for the validity and the variance of each one of these questions, they did have to have a strong response rate which is really important. And that way I also knew that they'd be, you could answer them with relative ease, because other institutions have basically already answered this survey, and therefore I knew that people were able to answer them and I had already tested sort of that through this national survey. I was able to basically score every institution that was already in the data file and then basically run a sort of practice test on all of it for that validity. Here's a deeper look at what the scoring looks like in the tool itself. It's a pretty straightforward thing like I said with the survey so you get, do you have an emergency plan. If you said yes, you get a one. If you said no, or don't know you get zero. But then there's some richness there that you can kind of better identify to some of the things that would really be important and also are asked. I think with relative frequency of emergency planning and disaster planning. So, you can see how I'm trying to ensure that people are able to kind of really assess their whole practice through also being able to get some more of richness. Okay, so the big takeaways. There's a tool to the ecosphere. That means that it exists alongside other things that might be of better use to you or might be something that you need to pursue because of your own decision making about your own practice. And this regular check in is something that we should all be doing. I think even as just a way in which to assure that we are making an effort, right. There are some people who don't think twice about certain aspects of their practice but maybe, you know, if you did have to assess it every five years you say oh I forgot about that. The other thing is that it's light footed like I said so it's self directed. It doesn't take a lot of time I don't think for a lot of people at smaller institutions in particular to be able to answer it and it's not a heavy lift for them. If you wanted to do a deeper dive. Obviously there's more work for you to be done and there's no reason that you can't do this collections care index tool as well as the HHI tool if you wanted to do both. You'd get a lot more richness in terms of what it is you want to know about your own practice. But again, this is filling a different sort of need I believe from the community who wanted something that they could do more regularly with a slightly lighter lift. One of the best things about indexes is that usually when the data is available to the public, it then is a way in which institutions are able to compare to their peers. This is pretty a common practice in public libraries, but there was a national arts index as well. And those index scores annually allow institutions to say oh we're really doing good or I don't know I don't think that we are like scoring as high as we would like to. There's there's something interesting in there. And then of course like I already sort of mentioned I just wanted to reiterate that if you are having a tough time having these conversations internally if you wanted to basically make a more sound argument and grant applications are making a pitch to your board. There is a way in which you can say, we're trying to do this we're trying to measure our own work and we're trying to do it in a valuable way that also allows us to be transparent and honest with ourselves about what it is. You know, the disadvantages on the other side, you know, of this of the slide include this is not an action plan. This is not to tell you what it is that you're supposed to do next. There's some consideration that needs to be made in terms of what you want, and to prioritize in your work going forward and perhaps what you have the money to do, or what you need to raise the money to do. Provides a starting point, but that might like I said require a little bit more money or some investment from your institution, or your department to figure that out. And then, and some people don't like the comparison because it's like getting your grade back from your teacher and your grades being public or something like that. So, some people don't like that aspect of it, because this is new, there is nothing that's public at the moment so I just want to reassure everybody that there is no plan at the moment for any kind of public peer comparison. But this is why indexes can be of use right. Okay, I'm going to stop sharing this. And then I'm going to look at the tool itself. I haven't already. Clicked on the link collections care index.com is the website. And I'm just going to start with the website home. Okay, so I'm not going to spend a lot of time here, you've already basically gotten the overview of what this looks like so, you know, the slide deck is up, it's linked off of this page. In the homepage, and the tool is right there on the homepage as well. So, I want you to be like feel confident that you can like be able to get to it and it's always going to be linked here whenever there's an update. You know, I've, I've tried to also make sure that folks have ability to kind of link off from here to look at other things that might be of interest to them, you know, see to see cares up there at the top but these other programs that might be of interest to you to look into deeper resources. I also, because I'm, because I'm a research scientist have provided you with a little bit more detail on these deeper pages. I'm not going to go into that because I don't want to bore people but the development and the history of HHI and then CCI is all there. It doesn't really exist in the internet if you can believe that because heritage preservation was dissolved. As an organization, a lot of this history is sort of kind of got lost, but thankfully, some of the documentation is also still available online to be linked out to or be able to provide you with the reports and the desire to do this. And then I wanted people to feel like they had the reassurance that this is built on sound practice and built on sound research. So that's where the read me and stuff goes in. If you ever want to get in touch with me, you can always email to collections care index at gmail.com about this particular thing might be happy to answer your questions. But for the sake of great purple people are already here. Fantastic. So it's, like I said, it's going to be like a survey. So the questions are set up so that you can kind of click through it pretty quickly and provide your score with relative ease. And I want you to be able to kind of go through here and be able to say, oh, okay, you know, I did this I don't do this. Right. So, for example, of a follow up and sort of like more of richness and your detailed answer, which best describes your institution, which best describes where your institution uses environmental controls to meet temperature specifications for collections preservation of collections. If you set in all areas you get the full point, even more. But if you're doing it in storage or exhibition areas, that's great too. There's nothing wrong with that just isn't all areas. There's some way in which you might be able to kind of better see the utility of this and say like oh okay there's some distinction here maybe that we're making about what it is we actually are doing and not doing. Another one I wanted to point out because this goes through a lot of questions that I think people can be able to answer though I'm happy to answer additional questions about it is about staffing. Let's see. Yeah. Okay. Which best describes your current institutional staff or conservation and preservation, right. If you've got full time dedicated paid staff, that's important. I think that means that there's some interest in your institution being able to give you, you know, people who can do this as a full time responsibility. And that definitely points to be had for all the other types of people that are helping you to support doing this work, even contractors people from other departments volunteers I mean, it's really important right that we continue to do this but this might be a time where you could say hey look, you know, we don't score as highly on on this particular thing and we need to hire more staff because then we could really raise our score right for this index and that allows us to sort of say, we need to hire more contract staff for this particular job, or we need some more volunteers that can kind of be constant in our on our world that allow us to continue to preserve our collections. So, all those things I'm hoping are sort of in there for you to be able to walk through it in a simple way that allows you to answer the questions. Maybe that also other people are asking of you, perhaps in where you are at the bottom. There's a total. You can provide a glossary in case there's any confusion about terms that are used in the questions above. So hopefully it is pretty self directed and also a pretty good standalone in terms of where you can proceed from here. And I am going to stop because that is the end of the presentation. Leslie, that was great. We're going to hold questions until the end but I am excited to have people kind of play with it a little bit and see if they have any questions when it comes to the form itself and it's always interesting to hear what happened with the survey because I remember hearing. I remember filling out that survey back in the day so that's quite fun to hear that. So we're going to go ahead and move on to our next set of presenters. Our next set are Kate McEnroe she's the associate conservator of archaeological materials at the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. She, I just said that where she has worked for over five years she is a member of the AIC health and safety networks leadership team, and has recently presented her research and asbestos and historical archaeology. We also have Anne Kingry Schwartz she's an objects conservator in private practice in the Washington DC area, and is a professional associate of the American Institute of Conservation and served as co chair of their health and safety committee and they're going to present on a tool, all about how to get health and safety with their institution which is going to be real interesting because I know everyone has, or at least a lot of people have some scary stuff in their storage so it's going to be interesting to see how this will work so feel free to take it away. Thank you Robin. As Anne, Karen and I gather today, we are grateful for the land upon which we live. We recognize this land was stewarded by and is the unseated lands of its indigenous inhabitants. The fisheries the Piscataway, and the Nankachank or anacostin stewarded this land that is now called the District of Columbia and called it home. The Cheranaka or not away Chickahomani, Eastern Chickahomani, Maddupanai, Menachin, Nansmond, Pumunky, Padawomic upper Maddupanai and Rapa Hanuk stewarded the land that is now called Colonial Williamsburg and called it home. The Muncie Lenape stewarded the land that is now called white plains New York and called it home. We acknowledge the history and legacy of colonialism in the United States, and the struggles and injustices and inflicted on the original stewards of these lands. Today we are going to present a survey tool aimed at helping historic houses and small institutions identify a range of health and safety hazards. While we are the primary developers, many others have been involved along the way, and we will acknowledge them at the end of the presentation. The fire broke out at 8am Thursday, August 3, 2017 in Torrey Hall, a historic building that houses the University of Vermont's Pringle Herbarium. The fire engulfed the upper floors, including the fourth floor where the herbarium was housed. It burned for seven hours before the Burlington Fire Department could put it out. The fire itself was mainly contained between the inner and outer roofs, but there was significant water damage and minor smoke damage to the interior spaces of the building. The building built in 1863 and listed on the National Register of Historic Places was undergoing an exterior renovation when welding caused the fire to break out. The historic Pringle collection consisting mainly of plant specimens glued to paper was largely undamaged. This was in part due to the 2014 purchase of new storage cabinets made possible by a National Science Foundation grant. But was also in part due to the fire department, who covered the cabinets with tarps almost immediately after the fire was put out. According to Deputy Fire Chief Peter Brown, the fire department does not have plans for every building on campus, but they do have plans for buildings with labs and dangerous chemicals. UVM building managers have plans, but not in conjunction with us. In this case, we all knew there was value to it, you could tell by the cabinets. And here we have a poll question for you all. Have you ever had a meeting with your fire department? While not all of us have achieved National Science Foundation grants or have our collection stored in high end cabinets, there are lots of things you can do to mitigate disasters and other less obvious health and safety issues. In fact, it's especially important to take planning measures if you don't have high end cabinets. It's important to take your local fire department and inviting them to know you, your building and your collections can also help you protect your collection and encase disaster strikes. Robin, can we see the results of the poll? So this is something that our survey will suggest that you do if you haven't already. We designed this survey to help you prepare for health and safety disasters such as this one, but also for less obvious health and safety issues that might not be on your radar. The goal of this survey is to make the health and safety of your visitors and staff a focus. It will encourage you to put people ahead of your collection. The survey will provide a priority list of health and safety concerns at your historic property. It will empower you by raising awareness of safety issues and providing the resources that may help you address a significant number of these issues yourself. Of course, while those of us who work in historic houses and small museums wear many hats, it's important to remember that there are still a core set of issues that require a professional. The survey will help you present quantitative information to your director or board to help with budgeting and fundraising for health and safety projects. This survey is tailored for small institutions and historic houses. It can be adapted to fit the needs of many different types of museums. For this reason, the survey is written as broadly as possible to apply to as many different types of institutions as possible. Some questions may not perfectly fit your situation, so you will need to interpret and score the question as best you can. Other sections may not apply at all and can be skipped entirely. The survey is intended for general information for historic houses and small museums. It provides knowledge and awareness and the results should be used with caution. Nothing in the survey can be interpreted as legal advice. Information in this survey should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a trained health and safety professional. In 2015, the collections care network asked the health and safety committee to this was before the health and safety committee became a network. To collaborate on a resource for historic houses. We came up with an idea of creating a self survey for under resource sites to assess themselves. In 2016, we visited two historic houses in DC to help figure out what hazard these sites presented. John Barton House and Tudor Place generously gave us tours and have continued to patiently collaborate with us throughout the development of this survey. Special thanks goes to Jerry Faust, Kristen Barrow, and Bryn Cooley. All images in this presentation unless otherwise credited are from these two institutions. It's now 2021. As you may have guessed, this survey has been through many iterations and formats, both environmental health and safety professionals, as well as conservators and collections managers have helped to edit versions over the years. Some of these categories were drawn from OSHA checklist. OSHA stands for the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which is the government regulatory body tasked with keeping workers safe. In this survey, we tried to translate technical jargon into language that would be familiar to collections workers. However, many of these questions, stair riser height, for example, are pulled directly from these checklists. After taking the survey, when you do work with a health and safety professional on some of these more technical issues, they will likely revisit the OSHA regulatory checklists with you. We provide many resources to help clarify, to help provide clarity to issues with which you may not be familiar. Many of the resources we provide are not official OSHA regulations because these are often difficult to understand. Some resources are less official websites or blogs that clarify certain OSHA regulations. Our team was originally composed of conservator, carat, costrager, industrial hygienist Julie Sobelman, industrial hygienist Kathy Makos, conservator Kathy Hawks, and myself and objects conservator. Over the years, we lost some members and gave and gained conservator Kate McEnroe. During the site visits in 2016, we walked through the two historic houses, encountering real life situations to help define the direction of the survey and the scope of questions needing to be addressed. Originally, the survey was envisioned as a space based survey, where you might be able to answer one set of questions for galleries, another for offices, etc. However, it quickly became clear that the extent of possible health and safety issues far exceeded that concept scale. The current model, which we will introduce in the next slide, is organized by hazard type, allowing you to complete individual surveys for individual spaces where applicable. For example, your main building could be fully explored in one survey, but you may have a maintenance garage that requires certain tabs to be duplicated. It is difficult trying to capture all potential situations in a single document, and some modifications to tabs reflect this, such as work practices, which we will see in more detail a little later. The final version of the survey is an Excel spreadsheet with 14 tabs, which you can see pictured at the bottom of the screen. The survey is organized by hazard type, one hazard type per tab. We are going to launch a poll that you can consider while I continue to speak. As we're interested to know which of these hazard types you think is most prevalent at your institution. Regional policies and procedures. These policies and procedures are to keep museum guests and staff safe. They address both external safety hazards, like tornadoes, as well as internally generated ones, like chemical spills. Building structure. This section covers hazards related to the construction and layout of the building. This section covers hazards related to the electrical plumbing and HVAC, heating ventilation and air conditioning, systems in your building. Outdoor spaces. This category addresses hazards outside of the building. Hazards include slips, trips and falls, pest management, trees, electrical, large installations, statues and landscape structures such as gazebos, follies or bridges. Chemical hazards. These include any substance that may be harmful to human health. Chemical hazards can be found in facility spaces, kitchens, bathrooms and even in education or art making spaces. These materials may be common cleaning materials used for housekeeping, collection based hazards and chemical reagents and powders used in conservation and preservation of objects. Collection based hazards. These include collection items that can be hazardous to human health. These examples include heavy metal based under bound pigments, asbestos and pesticide residues. Compressed gas and spraying. Compressed gases are gaseous chemicals stored under pressure. This includes propane tanks, spray paint and gas powered appliances such as boilers and stoves. Work practices. This section includes activities in which many historic houses engage, ergonomics, first aid, housekeeping, personal protective equipment, radiation, sharps and working at heights. The term employee in this section includes everyone exposed to these hazards, staff, contractors, volunteers, interns, etc. This is an example of the difference with the OSHA regulations that we discussed earlier. While OSHA regulations are only concerned with employees, this survey covers everyone on site. Fire hazards. Fire hazards range from combustible materials to a lack of suppression and alarm systems. As we saw from the example of the University of Vermont, fire risks can be mitigated with good policies and planning. The policy and planning section makes up 50% of this tab. This section includes hazards and risks associated with the use of all equipment and tools on site. It is divided into various areas or departments that are part of your site. Collections care, gardening, wood shop, metal shop, maintenance, kitchen and catering and offices. And there's a final tab that couldn't be pictured in the poll and that's transportation. This section covers vehicles used on public roads and off-road vehicles used only on site, like golf carts or gators. Answers should include the work practices of employees, contractors and volunteers. Robin, if enough people have responded, it'd be great to see the results of that survey. So it does look like there are some strong contenders amongst people, collection-based hazards, building systems, building structure and general policies and procedures. Which is great because some things like general policies and procedures can be quite easy for you to address and rectify those issues. And if you do end up undertaking the survey, it'd be really interesting to see how your responses might change after reading the various questions. On the screen is an image from the work practices tab, which encompasses a number of activities such as ergonomics, first aid, housekeeping, personal protective equipment, radiation, sharps and working at heights. This tab is a good example of where sections can be skipped if they do not ever apply to workers at your institution. More detailed descriptions of what is covered are included in each sheet and also kind of read some of them, but that's all taken from our spreadsheet. For most tabs, questions for each hazard are divided into four categories, planning, training, hazards and communication. There are three columns in each tab. There's the question column, one for your response, and then a comments and resources column. Some questions may raise awareness about things you are missing or hadn't considered were hazardous. For example, maybe you do have a policy in place for protective, personal protective equipment use, but do you provide regular training and fit testing for relevant workers? And then do the workers consistently use the PPE correctly? Getting useful results from this survey relies on a few things. First, try to answer the survey questions as honestly as possible. If you have more than one building structure, there may also be a few tabs that you need to duplicate, such as one for individual buildings on site, whereas other tabs will cover your entire work site like work practices. This is a long survey. It does not need to be answered all at once or any particular order. If it seems overwhelming, start with just one tab or one section of one tab. Our goal was to give you the foundation to begin to understand and address your health and safety issues. The link for downloading the survey is included here and on the resources slide at the end of the presentation. There's a page on the Health and Safety Wiki dedicated to this project. Also on the Wiki are topics specific information that you can use to help answer the survey, many of which are referenced in the resources column in the spreadsheet itself. You will be able to access these links from the PDF of the presentation uploaded to the resources page for this course. However, we will continue to update the survey periodically to resolve any technical issues and eventually to reflect feedback from users. So if you undertake the survey several months from now, please revisit the Wiki link to work from the latest version. A quick note on hazards versus risks and how it applies to your results of this survey. A hazard is a material's basic property. For example, a shell is sharp or mercury is toxic. Risk is the degree to which that hazard affects the body systems through illness or trauma. Not all hazards are regulated by laws. Understanding risk involves understanding how the hazardous condition is being worked with. A highly hazardous material may not pose a high risk if proper safety controls are in place. Also, workers have to be trained on how to use the controls and actually use them. Inherent hazards may be difficult to change, but the risk from working with that hazard may be controlled. Risk can be reduced by either reducing the contaminant or by reducing the possibility of exposure. Some items on this list and in the survey, such as historic window glass, will remain a risk even though it's within building codes and regulations. Continued exterior interior use of pesticides or herbicides while within state regulation still pose a risk to staff and visitors. Hazardous collection materials always remain a challenge. There is a lot of information available on the AIC wiki to help you mitigate the risk they pose. Our collections hazard survey tab is organized in the same order as the wiki. So when you have questions, you can refer to the wiki as you go through the tab. There is also a recording from a 2016 C2CC webinar on this subject. There are three levels of scores. Urgent, red, some cause for concern, yellow, and low risk, green. This will help you prioritize and address your safety issues. Each tab will prompt you to enter a number for yes and no. Unless otherwise specified, yes answers are worth one point and no answers are worth zero. Questions that are more important than others will be worth more than one point. The numbers greater than one are reserved for more significant safety questions, but we also use them to allow for different levels of answers. The pesticide questions in outdoor spaces, for example, which we will come to you soon. There are also a few questions that you score a negative one on for a no answer. This was done so that you couldn't score a green for that section if you answer no to these questions. It's important to not leave any response cells blank. All answers are linked back to the results in scoring rubric tab. If a question is not applicable to your institution, then the risk does not apply to you. And these cases enter the highest number that is an option for that question. There are a few questions that are extremely important. If you answer no, that cell will turn red. This is demonstrated on the screen on the left hand side. If your overall score of that section is good or moderate, these red squares will serve as flags for you. You should address these issues as soon as possible. So how did we come up with the scoring method? We went through each question in a section and determined if it was high, moderate or low risk to answer no. Based on this we scored the section. The next step in our survey editing is to get some more feedback from users and find out whether they agree with the scoring. In a moment we will demonstrate this live. The second tab in the survey is where the scores from each section are automatically populated with the answers from the rest of the tabs. This is what you see demonstrated on the right hand side of the screen. This is so you can see all of your scores in one place. You do not enter any information on this page yourself. When the scores are entered, it will change the color of the cell to either red, yellow or green automatically. But rather than continue talking about the survey, we are now going to show you how the survey works. Dr. Jerry Faust, collections manager at Dunbarton House and generous editor of this survey kindly shared his survey results with us. We are going to input the scores for you now. So we're switching screens to the Excel document. If you've already downloaded or want to take a moment to do so, please feel free to try out the tab with us. The first tab in the survey is the introduction tab. It contains similar information to what we are presenting here today. The second tab which you just saw with Kate is the scoring rubric. These cells are populated with the answers from the rest of the tabs so you can see your scores in one place. You don't enter any of the information here yourself. Now we'll switch to the outdoor spaces tab. Each tab has a description of the category and what it includes, which is here. As you can see, there are three columns that we mentioned, the question column, your answer and the comments and resources tab. As Kate mentioned, in order to quantify this, we assigned one for yes and zero for no. The question has a resource. We tried to use resources where we felt the question was confusing or most users might not know what some of the terms were. For example, PPE for our Boracare. Here are the four sections that have most tabs that most tabs have the planning and policies training hazards and communication. Okay, now we're going to go through Jerry's answers. Okay, so section one planning and policies routine maintenance is scheduled for all landscaping. Yes. Routine inspection is scheduled for all landscape structures because the both follies bridges and fences. Yes. Routine maintenance is scheduled for temporary installations. No. Health and safety issues are taken into account when planning for installation of temporary exhibits. Yes. If pesticides are used, they are selected to present the least risk to visitors and staff enter to if pesticides are not used. We use pesticides. So here you can see we use, we allow different numbers to show your risk of that particular question. Integrated pest management strategies are routinely used. Yes. So, Jerry scored or Dunbarton House scored a moderate risk for that section training employees and contractors who perform the landscaping upkeep. Are properly trained to use the required equipment. No. Employees and contractors working at heights are properly trained. No. Employees or contractors are properly trained in tree pruning and removal. Yes. If pesticides are applied employees and contractors are trained to use them safely enter to pesticides are not used. We use pesticides and employees and contractors are trained to use them safely. So there's a high risk score there. Our third section is hazards. Outdoor paths and public areas are kept clear. Yes. Outdoor paths and staff areas are kept clear. Yes. Overhead hazards are regularly removed or maintained. Yes. Access is restricted to areas where overhead work is being done. Yes. Outdoor paths are well maintained and do not present a slipping, tripping or falling hazard. No. Outdoor paths and public areas are adequately lit. No. Outdoor paths and staff areas are adequately lit. Yes. Outdoor paths are wide enough to safely accommodate any equipment used for collections move through these spaces. Yes. Like what headroom is provided the entire length of any outdoor path or walkway. Yes. No cords or other tripping hazards run across pathways. No. Manhole covers are secured and safe to walk on. Yes. Access points. The hazards are secured from the general public. Yes. Injuries and contractors who use pesticides wear appropriate PPE. Enter to a pesticides are not used. We use pesticides, but we wear appropriate PPE. So again, here's a high risk category. And the last category is communications appropriate warning signs cones or tape are used to restrict access to the hazards. Yes. Illness and injuries resulting from outdoor work are reported. Yes. So there they got a low risk score on that section. You can see why it's important to divide each category into the four different sections. Some Barton does well with communications and only has moderate risk for policies. However, there's high risk for training and hazards. In this particular and for this particular topic they should prioritize reducing the hazards. So if we go to the scoring rubric, you can see the answers were generate that we generated in the outdoor spaces tab have populated here on this tab as well. So we have another poll for you now. Do you agree or disagree with the scoring results. So we have a lot of Jerry's answers we felt like our score for the policy section, which was read was not right so we adjusted the formula. We are very interested in getting user feedback so we can make the survey better. If you thought the score was inaccurate please let us know why in the chat and we can discuss it during the question and answer portion of today's presentation. Can we see the poll questions or the poll answers. Okay, so we were on track for that one. I'm sure there'll be other sections where we're not after completing the survey, you can make a list of priorities based on your results. For example, even though Dunbarton received a red score for outdoor spaces hazards. There may be another tab with greater health and safety concerns they need to address first. You will see that some issues require professional assistance, and others can be addressed in house. So please select a health and safety professional specific to the hazard you are trying to address. For example, if you wanted to find an industrial hygienist, the American Industrial Hygiene Association has a find a consultant link on their website that allows you to search by hazard and zip code. Consider having your needs, questions and available resources prepared for your preliminary discussions with the consultant. This is the final poll question for you all. Have you ever reached out to or worked with a health and safety professional and Robin whatever you feel like we've received enough results I'd love to see those as a much more even split than I was expecting. And if you are part of the 51% who hasn't, we hope that the survey will give you the resources and knowledge to reach out. There are a number of good general resources to help you answer the survey and address some of your health and safety problems. The AIC beginners guide to health and safety, the AIC health and safety wiki. And the AIC health and safety forum, you do not need to be a member of AIC to join this forum or access any of these resources. We also have an email for this project where you can reach us directly with any questions or comments and that's historic house hazards at gmail.com. There are also some national organizations that oversee health and safety, the New Zealand resources has less technical language and maybe more accessible to those not trained in health and safety. Some of the regulations in other countries may not be applicable to your country, but much of the information about different hazards and preventive measures will be useful to you. These links will remain active in the PDF uploaded to the resources page for this course. There will be time for questions after the presentation, but first we have a quick plug. We could really use your help. If you do fill out the hazards spreadsheet or any component of it, we have developed a second survey for you to give us feedback so we can make the hazard survey better. The feedback survey is much, much shorter, we promise. The feedback link is on the screen located in the survey and on the project wiki page. This is a big project that required a lot of cross-discipline expertise. We had a lot of help. Thank you to our subject matter experts, editors, and concept design sites. Hi everyone, that was great. Thank you. So I'm going to invite Leslie to go ahead and she can turn her camera on and we actually also have an additional person who helped develop the final tool, Karith. She's going to be here as well to answer questions. So we are kind of open for questions now on either one of these tools. So if anyone as an attendee wants to put something in the Q&A box, please feel free to do so. I would ask that questions go there rather than the chat. Someone in the chat did say they got an error when they downloaded the Excel survey, but we'll double check that to make sure everything looks okay. On the back end for sure. But before then, let's start looking at some questions. So earlier on we had a question that says thanks for the presentation. I think this was for Leslie's presentation. I was wondering if you could talk about why certain aspects of collections care preventative conservation are not covered by the assessment fire prevention flood prevention and IBM. Yeah, I'm glad that this was posted in the Q&A because I needed to noodle it for a minute. And I believe, and this is the reason why I needed to noodle is because I don't really think it's actually documented very well anywhere and I believe this is the answer to the question which is that HHI was focused on collections that are housed inside the institution and not the institution itself or the building itself and therefore some of those particular topics around fire or IPM, I think we're not included in them because they also wanted to make sure that organizations that may not be, let me let me back up and say, with the broad overview perspective on how many institutions are actually caring for things that need climate control, there was an interest in not only getting, you know, archives and historic houses but also zoos and aquaria that have bio specimens that their climate controlling as well as biology departments at universities. So there was there was some interest and scoping, I think around the kinds of questions that would be answerable by those types of institutions and though those things that were highlighted by Simon are I think really important things. And I think they definitely came up in the kinds of education and resources they were just not part of the original questions set. And also, I think with pretty good confidence agree that I don't think in the other studies like preservation statistics or knowing the need that I addressed earlier. Also, I don't think that they have those particular topics and then I think sometimes too when you're developing these kinds of assessment tools you have to, sometimes you have to be like, we can't cover that here because if you just keep adding things on it's like you have to have an end point, you know what I mean of just of just working on them to get the tool out. And I know that there are other tools out there for IPM and some other things that might be they handle it. So sometimes you have to just kind of say, Nope, we're good. Let's cover this and let's refer to some other folks when it comes to these other tools just so you don't get overwhelmed by this. At least that's how I always feel whenever I work on reports and stuff I'm always like okay I got to put a stop. Like, if not keep going so. Yeah, I mean, and also just to highlight C2C care and it's sort of like predecessor C2C exists only because HHI does right so HHI was the impetus for why C2C was funded as an educational resource because of the need that was identified in these big surveys and so it continues and is persistent because we we keep measuring at this national level to understand how well people are still doing and how much they still want to be able to learn but I think that some of those topics that that Simon mentioned have been part of the C2C core curriculum since the beginning so I don't think that they've been overlooked. I think that you're sort of right about that Robin that they probably are identified more closely with or that we were able to at the time sort of look around and sort of see also what you know we could we could measure and then also scoping away because it is 100 questions. That's not nothing. I think you're going to be proud of the level of questions. Moving on to the health and safety one which tab in the HHH tool presented the biggest issue in developing. And this is from Jerry Faust and he says also I am now the historic site director smiley face so good to hear as well. So what would you all say to that. I was thinking about this for a while was a hard question. The health and safety committee over the years have developed resources or written articles on many of the topics of the tabs but at least for me from my perspective, the building structures and systems were things we hadn't really focused on that much so translating those OSHA checklists was a challenge because we all we had like discussions like is stair riser height really that important and then we were all thinking about historic staircases where the risers are totally different levels and that is actually a slipping tripping and falling hazard and so it's something probably I mean I've worked in a number of historic houses and I've never thought of it. I don't know if cater care of other opinions. That was definitely where I felt the most unfamiliar and had the most to learn for sure. Going back to CCI says do you need to print it out. How do you fill in your scores so how would you recommend be the best way to do it Leslie. Let me double check the permissions I know that the link that's available allows people to be able to share it around. And I want people to be able to make a copy of that link to be able to fill in if they want to do it electronically or if they want to do it on print. I think that I want to leave that choice up to you about what's the best way to do it so if it's not currently able to be copied and then made a or make a copy of it. I want people to be able to do it that's also why it's it's a sort of simple format so that it's not. It's not too many things. Yeah, and as you guys saw it's a Google Doc so theoretically you should just be able to share it, make a copy and then kind of go to town with it would be the hope. Do we have a emphasis on exhibit design to avoid environmental disasters e.g. to avoid flood damage keep objects off the floor offset from exterior walls, that type of thing. Do we know which, which that's directed towards. That's a good question if you want to clarify in the chat you're more than welcome to but let's just say let's start with health and safety what do you all have to say about it. Well we do have a couple policy questions about natural disasters. But again, our survey really promotes that you care more about people than you do about your collection and as we conservators. That's really hard to do you know that's not a kind of easy thing to do since our jobs are all about the objects, but it's really important to put people first so. I think if this were a survey more about collections care, or that kind of thing we would emphasize that more, but that might be something you have in your policy about dealing with natural disasters so your emergency preparedness policy. I don't know if you all have anything to add. So we kind of talk generally in a few sections about slips and trips and areas where people could encounter regular wetness you know near main doors kitchens bathrooms things like that. But like and said we don't focus on the collections care aspect in the way that the question asks. Leslie do you have any thoughts on that question. Exhibit design to avoid environmental disasters no there really isn't. I would say the closest it gets is really understanding. Well, it touches on proper storage if you have storage and if you're, if you have this kind of storage that doesn't cause damage, and then environmental controls for light relative humidity and temperature. So those things are included but it's not. I don't think going to give you the right kind of information you would want about how to design an exhibit space, or what is the relative humidity for your institution because that is all variable dependent on on the entire on your experience and with your your collections. Thank you. And you guys did the dirty secrets that yes we care more about people registrars also care more about people than they do objects so officially is all I'll say. So for both of all your tools this is actually really good questions I'm guessing you guys were working on this throughout the past almost two years we've been in this world. So how did the pandemic inform, can you kind of file finalizing both of the tools because you guys were working on this throughout the pandemic so I'm going to start with the historic house folks and just get a feel for anything change did you have to look at the tool a little differently with the pandemic happening. What are your thoughts. I would say if anything it gave us more time, at least in the beginning to dedicate to actually working on this and accomplishing some of our goals. All three of us live in different locations as you heard in our introductory slide so remote work was already the way we connected. And I don't know if you all have other ideas and especially in terms of how the tool actually turned out. Well, our zoom skills definitely prove like we are really, we, you know, we'd have the Excel document open and I'll be working on it together and that was a lot better than the like back and forth like you edit it first and then email it to me and then I'll edit it. You know, so that was a really big benefit to it. And I think that it does actually having kind of three people look at a question together. I think it was kind of a synergy of all of our thoughts and that would have been better than me working on it individually and then passing it off to care at their Kate. Lovely what about you, do you think change really with the way you looked at the tool with the pandemic or similarly I was able to carve out a little bit more time to finally make it on a very public access website so that you could get to it. And sort of right before the pandemic is when the data set was released through through I'm a less, which didn't necessarily have an impact on the development of the tool as far as I was concerned but I'm glad that everything kind of coalesced in the last couple of years, so that people have as much access to it as, as they want. I encourage people to, to look at some of the HHI if they want a tool, a little bit more similar to the, the, his hazards sheet because that's kind of what HHI like looks like in its original form. It's a lot of important work and I applaud Anne and Kate and Keras and their collaborators for doing that work. That was done before I got on the scene with HHI and so I know that it is intense and and I know that also working with a lot of different people can really help inform but also make a big project seem even bigger what there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen so big big big applause to you because that is a big undertaking. And I think it's a really valuable thing that you've created. Thank you to everyone. A final chance for any questions they might have for any of our panelists today in the Q&A box. While we're waiting for that I would like to ask just each group. What do you consider kind of your biggest challenge with working on this because each of you guys that we're dealing with pretty big data sets so what was the biggest challenge and then on the flip side. What was the biggest like, I don't know, like not aha moment but just kind of like wow this thing really works and it's really have you had any success stories yet or is it just still so new that you haven't heard anything about it. So let's start with challenges because I always like to hear people kind of fighting those challenges so Leslie what was your biggest challenge when actually creating this tool. I think the challenge for me was actually pairing it down. So that long, like 100 questionnaire 100 questions questionnaire is really difficult to also. You really care like you want people to be able to answer all of those things and you want there to be a robust amount of information that anybody can use, or I should say a questionnaire that anybody can use in order to really assess themselves. So I think I think in terms of challenges, you know, like, you've got to do all of that work to really kind of to inform what you need. In terms of the work of the index itself, you know, I had to kind of do this sort of research thing. So I would say that just checking the validity knowing the data set pretty well and all of those sorts of things made it actually kind of easy I think to to see the path forward to making a slightly lighter, you know, tool that I think people can really see and take away from pretty easily. That wasn't really the difficult part that was the easy part. Well, and I remember filling out the 2014 and the later like I remember filling out those heritage health index questionnaires and at a certain point just make like I gotta dive back into it like it was not one that you could do in one sitting. That's for sure it was a multi sitting group effort to get that thing done and we were so excited to see the results from it when they first started coming out so it's nice to see it and it's still having this life, even after you know what I know the organization went away so I guess I just want to add to I think it's really important that that it still has a life, you know, I think that there was a big delay between we collected the data and when it finally kind of got released publicly, and the analysis of it so. So my interest in doing this project is in part carrying forward the legacy of heritage preservation, and the way in which they cared about all of these collections and all of the people in the world that care for collections. But I think also because I didn't want the conversation to just, you know, die away from from the piece of assessment that I think might not necessarily be on everybody's mind about what they can do and how they can kind of get into it themselves so. So there was an impetus for me, I think, because of the delay and getting the, the analysis delay and getting the data out and the report out that I was like well, somebody's got to do something with this so I tried to ensure that you know. I also carry forward really the impact, I think that I had that was on me from Larry and I applaud him for really being sort of the, the guiding light I think for a lot of people in collections care. And I think he really hopefully is proud of this work should be for sure you should be as well. What about for our health and safety folks what was the biggest challenge for you guys, kind of when you started tackling this. Go on that one so for for me it was trying to take some of these very technical regulatory health and safety questions and translate them into something that we felt that collection care workers wouldn't be overwhelmed so we don't want you to open up this tab and just be horrified by how there are so many questions there are to answer and all the things that you haven't done. You know we want to reward you for your successes to and make you feel like, you know, the things that you're doing you're doing correctly and, and how can you understand what we're asking you and and making people feel that it's relevant to them. So that was a lot of time we spent and rewriting questions and wording questions and giving people resources so that they could. They could feel like they're accomplishing something by by completing the survey. Yeah, I think one of the challenges is, and we would have liked to use fewer questions. But because we're conservators and not health and safety specialists, we didn't. It was very hard to know what questions we could edit out off a OSHA checklist. And so, it's a lot longer than we would like it to be. And so we hope that you don't get discouraged and just, you know, just tackle one tab or one section of one tab. I'm to start with, or maybe just look through it. And maybe that will even just reading it will kind of raise your awareness about things so we know it's long I just think maybe the next iteration of this will be, we're going to go back to some occupational safety and health specialists and see if they can help us reduce the questions if they can lend their expertise to what. Maybe we don't need in a general survey that when you if you have somehow identified some something as high risk, then when you go back to a professional they can do more detailed assessment so we hope that that is so that may be a next step. And that's a super good point and we talked about this in an earlier kind of offline meeting was how, if you as a collections person register our collections manager, whatever. If you tackle these assessments first with your staff as much as you can that when you approach grants. You have more information behind you to actually go after them right so you're not going for the grant to go get the assessment done you've done the assessment. And then you figure it out from it, you know what I mean and you're kind of like starting yourself down the path of that road, a few steps ahead of someone who's just walks in and says hey I want to do the assessment. And I mean I know the folks who are working at institutions now, compared to I mean I've been in the field for 15 years now. When I started out it was working with these I was kind of like I felt like I was learning on the job a lot more than the folks I know who are starting out in their careers who are the EMPs now to like they already do a lot of this which is great and you guys can already have the power to fill these assessments out and start working on the actual work on at this phase which is wonderful because these tools are already out there and they're free. So, as you all are saying, it's hard to sit down. Sometimes it's hard when you're working your day to day life, especially at a small and mid size where you're wearing multiple hats to sit down and work on one of these tools because you're like oh my god I got to work on that exhibit that needs to go up tomorrow. If you take the time and do them, they will help you come up with your work plan and it comes collections care for the next couple years and that's like a wonderful thing to have kind of ready to go that if staff changes if volunteers change any of that kind of stuff, you will have kind of a work plan, or at least identification of what needs to be worked on right away. So I think that's a kind of a lovely thing for sure. Any final thoughts from you all on any of the tools or anything else you've learned from kind of developing them. I just want to do put out another plug for anyone who does fill out this survey to please please please let us know your feedback as as you know even us going through these scores. If you feel like your score actually reflected how you feel about your institution. The more the more data we can collect the better we can sort of refine the results that you get. Likewise, feel free to send me in any kind of feedback collections care index at gmail.com is where I'm taking that feedback so I can just kind of keep it collated in the same place. I'm happy to hear from anybody. Any challenges you have any questions you and concerns you have. I'm happy to do it, you know, this is just a one woman show at the moment so you'll be reaching me directly with any of your individualized feedback. Thank you. I've just added again the links to everything in the chat so please grab them there. Also on just the website for collections to care you will eventually see this recording copies of the presentation links to all the tools collections care index and the health and safety tools so we do encourage you to go to the website to take a look at them. Okay, a huge thanks to our presenters today to Kate and Leslie Kara thank you for joining us for the Q&A. Thanks to IMLS because as always we are an IMLS supported program here at CDC care thanks to the staff at FAIC, and thanks to our producers at learning times I hope you guys had a pretty good 2021 we're looking forward to 2022. Please have a safe and healthy holiday season and we will see you all in January. Thank you.