 and welcome to House Judiciary Committee. This might be our last meeting, however, let's keep ourselves open during the day in case we do need to meet to respond to something. Right now, we are taking action on what the Senate sent us back on S119. So they concurred with a further instance of amendments. I'll get the calendar page in a minute, but they went back to our effective date and that is the only change. During their committee discussion, they realized and really, it was actually originally a Benning, Senator Benning's amendment to push back and go back to our effective date. So that way, law enforcement has the time to roll out the policies, do the planning, do the training that they need. It also gives us time to come back, coupled with a report. So especially given that that was in our buildup over, I certainly would welcome a motion to concur. Our options would be concur. I think committee of conference, I don't know if we can concur with further proposal of amendment at this point. But again, I would entertain a motion to concur and then, and certainly discussion. Tom, Salih, okay. No, I'll just, I'll wait for the discussion. Okay, so we have. I'll make a motion that we concur. Okay, so Salih, you want a second? Okay, great. Okay, so discussion. What was it? Remind me, please. Sorry, Tom. All right. Go ahead, Ken. Go ahead, Ken, I didn't hear you. I'm sorry, what was the date that they've gone back to? It was July, right? July 1, page 5933 of today's calendar. Great, thank you. And what? The initial date was January. I'm hearing two people, I'm sorry. What did we have in there? January, January. And now it's pushed, and now it's pushed. Yeah, originally we had July and then we went back to January after speaking with members of the other body and now they've gone back to July. Good, thank you. Okay, so Tom and then Nader. Thank you. I gotta believe I know what Department of Public Safety thought of the amendment, but did they take testimony from, do you know? I would guess that they, I know they don't like the bill, but I would guess that they probably would agree with the amendment. I mean, it is in a sense favorable to the work they have to do. So I can't speak for Department of Public Safety. I know on, the commissioner was there on Wednesday when Bryn did the walkthrough of what we voted. So he did weigh in, but I can't say. What he said, yeah. Yeah, on the specific amendment. So Nader, are you all set, Tom? Yes, I'm sorry, yeah. Nader. Just wanted to say, I think this sounds good. I think that, you know, we've heard a few concerns both in committee and then we heard it on the floor too regarding timelines. And I think that this, I think that this is a good amendment. So I'll be supporting it. Great, I do see that we have Bryn here as counsel, if I'm talking slowly. So if she's available, she can come on. Just want to make sure. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you. So Bryn, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to add anything if you think it would be helpful. I think that you summarized it really well. Sorry for the record, Bryn here from the legislative council. The Senate committee did hear a walkthrough of the bill as it was voted out of the house. And there were members of that committee that did acknowledge that they had initially spoken with members of this committee about moving the date. If you remember, your original date was July 1st. And they, I think expressed to members of this committee that they wanted that to be moved up to January. But Senator Benning raised the point that because the standards as they were set forth would require some new training on the part of law enforcement, that it would make sense to give them some additional time to incorporate the standards into their training. And he proposed that as an amendment. And I think as this committee knows the vote in the Senate committee was split three to two. So my understanding is that in order to secure that third vote for the bill, they proposed that as an amendment to move the date back to July. But there was an acknowledgement that some members of that committee were the initial proposers of moving the date forward to January. Right, and I believe they took two votes. I think correct. I think the first one was five to zero on the amendment to move the amendment to the floor. Right, thank you. Thank you, Bryn, I appreciate that. Any questions for Bryn? Any other discussion? Tom. Me again. Yeah, I just wanted to say that, I mean, it's no secret what I feel about this bill. And even though I do feel this makes it a little bit better, I'm not interested in making, in my opinion, a bad bill better. So I just want to put it out there right off that I'll be a no. Thank you. I appreciate it. My understanding is that the commissioner did send another email with some proposed changes and one of them was actually the changing, what was it? Instantly to immediately, which we had already done. So, okay, any other discussion? Again, people just jump in if I'm not seeing your hands quick enough. I'm not seeing anybody. But, okay, so, not are you here? Yeah, you are. Yep, I'm here. Thank you. Let me just pull up the document. Can I just ask a quick question, please? Sure, sure. Just to make sure I got this right. So the date, originally, what got sent to the Senate was January 1st. And now to buy more time to do proper training and all this stuff. The Senate wants it pushed back to July 1st of next year, correct? So yes, you know, so when we sent it to the Senate, it was actually January, but it was based on conversations with the Senate Judiciary, members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. However, where we landed, and certainly my preference, was the July 2021 for the reasons that Senator Benning and we stated. So it was July in here, then we switched it to January, went to the Senate and they switched it back to July. Okay. Okay, all right. So, well, you know, so I'm gonna vote in favor of that because I think they need more time to get set up, even though obviously I'm not crazy about the bill, but I'm just again, showing that I'm willing to work with people. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I wanna make sure you, so the question is whether or not to concur. So we're not voting, we're not taking two votes like the Senate did on that particular amendment. We're voting whether or not to concur. So, can I just wanna make sure you understand that? If you wanna take a minute. I mean, I welcome your vote, but. What does that mean? What's the difference? I'll bring Brianne, please. Yeah, Griner, is this something that you can? Sure. Okay, answer. Okay, thank you. So essentially your vote would be on the entire bill. So you would be there, the Senate vote was to concur with the House bill with proposal of further amendment, which was just that single amendment of moving the date back. So your concurrence, your vote would be to concur with the Senate's proposal, which was to concur with the House version with that one change. So your vote is on the entire bill, not just the one change by the Senate. Okay, so thank you very much. And I wanna be perfectly clear here, vaccine. I appreciate you alerting me to that. That means the trust level, that means a lot to me. Brynne, your expertise in getting me back on track. I appreciate that too. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Thank you. And I see Patrick just joined us. I just wanna make sure Patrick knows where we are. Hi, how are you doing? Good morning. I had to get from a meeting. No worries. I have my tie on. Okay. I was breakfast. Not breakfast. So Patrick, we have a motion and a second to concur with the Senate's instance of amendment 119. Are you familiar with what they sent back to us? Yeah, okay. All right, and we are in discussion. So before I call the vote, I just wanna give you the opportunity to weigh in if you want to. You don't have to, I just see you're here. So I don't... I don't think I can add, again, I appreciate the intentions of almost all the work that we do in judiciary, but at the end of the day, someone that I rely on very heavily in the legislature for their judicial opinion has persuaded me that this may not be up to the standard that he would say. So with that, I'm going to vote no, but I do appreciate the intentions of the bill. Okay. Great. All right, well, thank you everybody. So then Nader, the quick shell, commenced to call the roll. All right, Christy? Yes. Colburn? Yes. Gosland? No. Hashim? Yes. Nott? Yes. Rachelson? Are we leaving it open for her, did you say? Yeah, I'm letting her know now that we're voting. And Seymour? No. Tully? Yes. Soloned? Martin, you were muted. One last time, hopefully, this session of forgetting to unmute myself. Yes. Burdett? No. Grad? Yes. And who was the first and the second again? Coach and Selena. Coach, yeah. Okay. All right, so yeah, let's hold it open for Barbara, certainly if we go to the floor, if we don't have her vote, then we'll just report her as missing, as absent. Madam Chair? Yes. Sorry for being disjointed and I apologize for missing yesterday, but we had a Human Rights Commission meeting and a number of hearings that we had to address. I just wanted to share with the committee that, I do understand the different positions that my fellow members are taking. And this doesn't change my relationship with any of you. I spent a lot of time talking with Senator Benning about the bill and it was an interesting discussion with him and the work we do is always challenging. And that I know and the longer you do it, the better you understand how difficult this is. But I did wanted to just share that I have not changed my relationship with him. But I did wanted to just share that I have not changed my feelings about any of my fellow committee members, regardless of how we end up at the end of the day. So thank you all for everything you do because I know you care about Vermont and that's the bottom line. Just needed to say that, thank you. Coach, thank you. Thank you, coach. Appreciate it. I say something. Absolutely. Thanks, coach. That was very well put. And I know that puts verdicts mind at ease because he was losing sleep on it. I never had any doubt. Okay. So Barbara is gonna sign on quickly to vote. Let me tell her. That's good. Okay. We can just, just wait a minute for her. And yeah, so if for some reason we have to meet for text folks or send an email or I guess just check your various devices and accounts and so yeah. Well, we're waiting for Barbara. We didn't get a chance to thank you, Maxine and Tom and Martin yesterday as our committee leadership but I wanted to thank you for all your work, all session and for, you know, adapting us, being with us in this new wild format and not shying away from the big work. I really appreciate it and I feel really grateful to be on this committee with all of you in charge. Great. Thank you, Colleen. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Great. Well, thank you all and I also wanna thank Tom, my vice chair, we are in touch a lot. Which I really appreciate. I think yesterday Tom said it really well that regardless of where we land on different bills and we've had some controversial bills, Tom has been able to put that aside and help me the discussion and bring things forward not with enormous amount of respect and so I really appreciate that. So. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. There you are, Barbara. If we have one more second before Barbara votes. Yes. And it was on my mind to say something and I appreciate Selena for breaking the ice on this, I guess. But first I wanted to say something to Martin and the amount of work you do is incredible. If there is a definition for workhorse, it's you. I've been around for 10 years. There's people that have been around a lot longer than I have, I know that. But in the 10 years that I've been here, I've seen a lot of people come and go and I watch people and I got my eye on you. No, but I've never seen anybody put the time and effort into, and I can only say it's a labor of love for you and I just wanna commend you for that. I appreciate that Tom, I really do. It's good work, it's good work. And if we're being nice to each other, which of course we do here, Tom and I have texted each other over the last couple of weeks during where we've had some intense discussions and such, just reminding each other how much we appreciate each other. And I've told Tom this as well, that I really appreciate that he is pushing that position. It's what we're supposed to do. We don't wanna all be on the same page on any of these things. And Tom definitely does a nice job of pushing it. And I really do appreciate that Tom and I appreciate your comments as well. Thanks. Thank you. And Maxine, I can't leave you out because from day one, six years ago, I came from a different committee and right off the bat, I was blown away by your inclusivity. You want to hear from everybody, you ask people to share what they have going on or what they're thinking of things. And it's continued, it's continued for the six years I've been on this committee. And with you bringing up our communication, over the last number of months, being in the situation we're in, I don't look at it as it was me, I look at it was you reaching out to keep me in the loop included in what's going on in the committee, whether we agreed or not, it didn't matter. And that's big because there are some people in the building, unfortunately, that matters too. And they will create animosities in their own mind with other people. And I attribute that not happening in our committee to you. And in our committee over the last three bienniums, we've had a number of different people in here. And I can't say that it's never happened with anybody, but for the most part, it hasn't happened. And again, I attribute it to you, I certainly appreciate your work that you do. And I think I've said this for the last three, two or three terms, whatever it would be that, at the end of the year that I hope to be back, first I hope to be reelected, and then I hope to be back in house judiciary for the next biennium. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, certainly appreciate that. I know when I hear about committees rolling their chairs and pulling all these jokes and stuff, it's like, oh my gosh, I don't know if some of you were around but the education committee, there are a few committees that have been tough and I am so grateful that we work together the way we do. So thank you. Thank you. Okay, Barbara. Hi, so everyone being nice to each other, darn. No, so I am voting yes on this. Vote. Great. Thank you. I'm sure all the nice things that were said, I would vote yes on as well and thank you, Maxine, for your patience with. No, absolutely, take a care, Barbara. Thanks, I will be on and off the floor, probably, depending on, there's a lot of waiting. But, right, see you all. And I'm gonna sign off. All right, thanks so much, take care. You're in our thoughts, Barbara. Thanks. All right, prayers, Barbara. Thanks. Great, okay, Kelly. Just real quick, again, thank you very much for being so welcoming and I know we have to go but I would be happy to help make phone calls for anybody on this committee for their campaign, sitting as I will be free from that. But I respect all of you and you all bring something very unique to us so I'd be happy to help in any way I can. Great, thank you, Kelly. And actually, I was talking to the speaker a while back about coming back in January when it's gonna look like whether it's gonna be a hybrid or not. And one of the concerns is we're gonna have a lot of new members coming into this environment and I suggested that she check with you because you certainly can say what it's like and what worked, what didn't work and so I encourage you to do that because there's a lot to think about. And Selena may be part, I don't know if Selena is part of leadership, I don't know if you're part of that ongoing discussion or Tom, but... No, I'm not part of that. About which discussion, I'm sorry, about how it's gonna look like. I'm going back to the building and how we're gonna meet in January. Yeah, we haven't talked about that recently and I've had to miss a couple of leadership meetings to be here and in other meetings. So maybe they have talked about it more than I'm not aware of, but yeah, I think it's evolving. Yeah, yeah, so Kelly, it's time to work out. Yeah, talk to the speaker, so. Okay, great. Well, thank you for my release. We need to get to the floor. Thank you, everybody. So Martin, you're all set? All set, thank you. Yeah, could come up soon, who knows, we'll see. Okay, bye, everybody.