 Hello beautiful souls, this is Ona with Art of Awakening and I have a special treat for us today. I am here with author and publisher Deepa Sanatani and we are just going to wrap about animals and goddess archetypes. So I'm going to just give you a little bit of bio so you understand where Deepa is coming from and that we're just going to get to because this is going to be really fun. And she says that she's got some little gaming things going on that she won't tell me what they are so watch for this throughout this interview. Deepa Sanatani is a fourth generation entrepreneur and educator. She's the publisher at Mythbooks and a senior analyst, a senior investment analyst at Mercantile and she's the author of two books, The Little Lights and The Merchant of Stories. Deepa has lived, studied and worked in Singapore, Australia, Israel, Japan and China. And with a background in business education and tech she has worked in the private government and corporate sector so she brings a lot of just life experience and kind of knowledge of different cultures to the table here. Through her novels, Deepa explores spiritual and metaphysical themes inspired by world mythology, folklore, fairy tales and ancient legends. In her stories she tackles the big themes of life, love and our place in this vast universe discovering and re-discovering the journey that is life with a deep sense of curiosity and a restless, restless thirst for the next great adventure. I have the feeling that this is going to be a great adventure with you. Thank you so much for joining us, Deepa. Thank you so much for having me, Kristie. First of all, you know, I'm a huge fan of your work. Like I have been for quite a few months now. So it's really a pleasure to be here. And thank you for making me sound so cool. Oh, you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one of the lovely things we share in common is that we're both Piscian. Oh, and happy deleted birthday. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I just had a birthday. So yeah, we're both Piscian and it was so much fun to learn that. And we've been kind of chatting together on and off for a few weeks. And it turns out we've got a lot more than just Piscian common in terms of our astrological charts. So we've been really having a ball comparing notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been so amazing because I really feel with you, Kristie, I've reconnected with like a long lost sister. Oh, so it's been from, you know, the other side of the world. But that's what's been such a blessing. All right, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, so far as much as people complain about tech, there's some real blessings. Fighting soul sisters is one. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And there was such an instantaneous connection. And so seeing as how it was a vulture that actually brought us together, it was your video vultures. I'm going to play a little game with you if you don't mind. OK. All right, so all it requires is an open mind. And just go along with it. And then I'll reveal the meaning at the very end. All right, sounds good. All right, sounds good. OK, so this game was first played with me actually by a friend of mine. And over the years, I found it very revealing. Whether it's accurate or some other story, but I found it very revealing. So, Ona, if you could be any animal, which animal would you choose and why? Ona reveals all right. Oh, my gosh. That's a hard one, because I love so many of them. And it would be really hard to choose one. I don't know. Let me just run through a few of them. And then we'll, you know, or is that all right? Do I have to just choose one? Just go through the journey, because there'll be more coming up. OK, all right, OK. I don't know if it's just because you said vulture. But vulture is one that, when I was in Costa Rica, I was hanging out with my cousins, some of which ran kind of a retreat center. And one of them, we were talking about vultures. And he was saying the vultures are so cool, because they don't really have to do anything. And they just soar there. And when the food's there, it's just there. And they don't have to fight for it. They don't have to do anything. And they're just so carefree in their own way. And I thought, wow, that's really cool. You don't think of a vulture as something that you'd want to be. But it's like, if you think about it, the food tastes awesome to them. They're designed for it. So just to have that carefree sailing around, and having this huge bird's eye view of the world. And then at your leisure, you kind of smell. It's almost like the earth is giving you offerings. And you just go down and take them, and then go back up to the sky. So maybe it would be vulture. All right, so vulture. Yeah, that's a really interesting choice. Because I think that in nature, nothing is wasted. Nature, you know, doesn't have this gaze of morality upon the world. And so vultures, they're just doing their thing. You're totally right. They're really awesome, beautiful, regal animals, birds. They're just the wingspan. And kind of related to the condor as well. Yeah, which is beautiful. To ask me tomorrow what I might say is something completely different. That's true. But that comes to the next layer. So if you weren't a vulture, what animal would you be? I've always had this thing for horses. I think they're my primary. I think they're my primary totem, really. And it would be a lot more challenging life than a vulture, I think. But that is, you know, I just love their beauty and just the free-spiritedness and just their sensitivity. And there's just, I don't know, there's something about horses. Yeah, and they're also really strong. They're very strong. Yeah, very powerful. Yeah, very powerful. And unpredictable. That's true, that's true. But that's kind of from their style, I guess, unpredictable. All right. And now it comes to our final layer. So we have a vulture, we have a forest. And so what's the third animal you would choose? I'm thinking dolphin. Just love, I love the water. And they're just so playful and joyful. I love that. And they've got this protective thing. They're the stories of the dolphins kind of nudging people to the surface, right? And that's so symbolic. I love that idea of just gently helping to nudge to the surface. And I think that's what I do in my work sometimes, is just like nudge the consciousness a little bit. I know I do it for myself. But just again, the freedom, I think with all these animals, it's like this freedom to kind of, yeah, so. Yeah, that's interesting. And dolphin is also, I'm not mistaken. It's like a group animal, right? Like it's not, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and so are horses. But dolphins, yeah, they go in the pods and they're just, you know, they sing to each other, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's it. That's really, really interesting. Oh, wow. That's very interesting. All right, so I'm just going to give you my answers the ones I gave like the very first time around, just so I'm not cheating, and I'll tell you what it means. The first time, just so I'm not cheating. So my first, the first animal I picked was actually rabbit. Because they're kind of fun and playful and outgoing and, you know, all those like, I, yeah, they live very short lives and, you know, they're prey animals, but I always liked their, their just ability to just kind of do what they do in a very unabashed, yeah, in a very unabashed way. And then the second animal I picked was owl. Or owl, which is so opposite to, it's a predator-prey relationship you always talk about. Isn't it? Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, and I picked owl because it's kind of, it's a predator, but it's not a very ruthless predator. Like it kind of does what it does. It's got very good vision. And you never really quite know what's going on in an owl's mind. It's just watching and you're like, what are you seeing? I want to know. So that was part of the mystery. I was just thinking mystery, yeah. Yeah, and they're just very, you know, piercing. They don't just looking at the surface. They kind of really looking deep. Right, yeah. And then the third animal I picked was actually human. Really? Oh, that's, I love that. I really, really, really love that because we forget that we're animals that we're part of the whole animal kingdom. It's such a, you know, so much, so much of what we do is driven by our animal nature. I love that, absolutely. Yeah, I know. And every time I've told people I chose this, like you're cheating and I'm just like, no, we are animals. I mean, I guess, you know, we just have fancy tools. That's how I kind of think. Yeah, we do. We have a lot of fancy tools which has helped us to do all the things that we've done. So, all right, so when I played this game, the guy explained to me, so the first animal is how you want people to see you. But you picked a butcher and I picked rabbit. Oh, they're so funny. And I remember. I culture. What does it say? Why not? Why not? The second animal is how people actually see you. So people think that you're a horse. So, yeah, so you said unpredictable and, you know, all the years gone. Well, maybe, you know, the horse is the one that I really resonate with. It's my primary tone. So that's probably hopefully, hopefully if I'm showing my real person, then that's how they'll see me. And the third one is who you really are. Interesting. Okay. Oh, wow. All right. So I think Dolphin is really telling actually about you because it's true. You are always gently kind of bringing things that are kind of hidden in the ocean into the surface. So I like that because when you said Dolphin, I'm like, oh, yeah, I see that. I see that. So that's interesting. But yeah, so that's kind of the game. And I think, yeah, it was fun to play that with you seeing yourself. That was fun. And I think this is something that everybody who's watching can take with them and try out with the people they know. It's awesome. Thank you. And I'll be trying it out with people. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a lot of fun. And some people will notice that they pick some really sweet animals. And the last one is like a big predator. And some people pick a predator. And the last one is a little sweet cuddly one. And you're like, oh, yeah. So it's just interesting. It's always been interesting to see the journey that people go on with these animals. So, yeah. But it was really cool. Thanks for letting me play that. Yeah. Well, thank you. That was really cool. So I know we were going to wrap a little bit about animal gods and goddess archetypes. And I know that you have a lot of a really profound background in like the Hindu tradition and I think probably suspect other traditions as well. So I'm going to let you start off. Was there any aspect of that that you wanted to delve into? Or bring up? Wow. Thank you. Oh, wow. There's like, I think when it comes to animals and Hinduism in particular, it's quite, you know, there's quite a variety. So number one, you've got something like we don't have something called spirit animal. I actually tried to explain this idea of spirit animals with my aunties the other day. And they were like, but then when I use this word called the Han, the Han means like someone's mount. Yeah. Then they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we get that. We get that. Yeah. And so usually the animals that people choose tend to be associated with one of the deities. And the animals I think are seen as part of a certain kind of cosmology, right? So in Hinduism, I think the most popular one is probably Ganesh, who is like, you know, who is like half like an elephant and half man. So one of the interesting things about the mythology behind this is that back in the day, long time ago, well, this is what the story is telling me, is that Parvati, his mom, had actually created this child without her husband. You know, as the gods do, she just kind of created him and she was taking a bath. And so she installed Ganesh to kind of guard the door. And so Shiva comes home, which is her husband, and he sees like this young man guarding the door who's refusing to let him in. And she's like, no, you cannot pass. And then she's like, how do you say no, you cannot pass. And then Shiva gets really angry and chops his head off. Yeah, you don't want to cross him. You know, so she just chops his head off. And then Parvati comes out of the shower and she's like, hey, what did you do with, you know, my son? And, you know, he's like, I didn't know it was your son. He's like, it was my son. Like, how could you do this? And then so it is decided that they go out into the forest and whichever animal comes first, he can have the head. So he gets the elephant. And so the moral of the story is not to react in anger. To kind of, you know, because, you know, Shiva is kind of the destroyer energy. Also the regenerative energy. Yeah. Yeah, I talked about how when we destroy things to regenerate, it's obviously a positive kind of experience. But if we destroy things because we're angry, we end up causing harm and all this kind of other negative stuff. So I think this is like one of the most popular. This is the most popular kind of archetype related to animals. And one of the things is that every prayer in Hinduism starts with Ganesha. Every prayer, really? Every prayer. So if you were to go to a temple, people would start with Ganesha first because he removes obstacles that are set in your path. And he's also a scribe. So he said to have written down a lot of these texts. And yeah, he's just an all-around, I think, very cool deity loved by everyone. And you'll see a lot if, you know, a lot of Hindus or even non-Hindus don't put a small Ganesha on their car, like on the wind, you know, on the car just to remove obstacles. So yeah. So that's a little bit about our lovely Ganesha. Ganesha is such a beloved deity, isn't he? And now he just kind of strikes me as interesting with the elephant, right? Because, you know, the elephant is this big powerful, can remove obstacles. The male elephant does have that rage, right? But that's not really associated with him, is it? Nah, he's kind of associated with almost like a peace and a love. But I also think that because he's half man, half elephant, right? So in a way, a lot of the Hindu deities, they're mythological in the sense that they're kind of reflect part of our human nature and part of our animal nature and how we can kind of balance it too. Because we still have those within us, even though we're called human, quote unquote. And so we're kind of trying to balance that, I suppose. One of the things I find quite interesting is that Ganesha is a male deity, right? But from what I've understood, elephants are like a matriarchal kind of society. And they follow the mother. So I guess can I ask you a question about this as well? Yeah. Elephants have been known to kind of get together and kind of mourn the loss of one of their tribe or even an elephant from another tribe. What is your take on this phenomenon? I think that they just have this extremely, I link them with the ancestors, right? They have this consciousness of ancestors, right? This ancestral connection that these animals have, that they are very, very conscious of their line back down and how they're connected with all of elephanthood through those ancestors. And it feels just really sacred when you read about them. I've never had the opportunity to observe elephants in person, but when you read about their behavior and you see the films of how they behave, they do go and they find the bones and they caress them. And this is a very, very primal behavior that human societies who are still in touch with the earth and with their roots will, I think it's pretty universal of this veneration and respect and honoring of the ancestors. And so I think this really reflects a very profound consciousness on the part of the elephants to really express that. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. And you were talking about the ancestors and interestingly it's also a metrilineal, it kind of goes down through the matriarch. Do you think there's some connection there? Like something like being passed down from mother to daughter? Like in ancient societies this was very common for gifts to kind of be passed down from mother to daughter. And I'm just wondering if it's related to that. Because like whales are matriarchal. Whales, dolphins, there's certain animal kind of communes that function in this way if there's a relationship. Right, the more egalitarian species and in human societies tend to be more quote-unquote matriarchal, which really the matriarchal societies, they're really more egalitarian. There's this honoring and respecting of the feminine wisdom versus the patriarchal societies. So like you hear matriarchal versus patriarchal and you might think that men are actually very valued and honored and respected in these matriarchal societies, often not so much in patriarchal ones. So I think you see, you can kind of look at human societies and how they pass wealth down through the lines and it says something about the society as a whole in terms of that recognition. I think there's a connection there. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Yeah, because when you watch them, I mean, because I was watching a video a couple of days ago, you realize that like this whole idea of ancestral memory is that we humans, we're born and we need to kind of relearn things or learn things. Well, a lot of them, they do have memories just of their ancestors and ancestors before them. I'm not sure how that would work out in kind of modern society, how accepting we are of those ideas. I think just watching them, they were all like banded together. It really felt like I was at a funeral, just watching a funeral of people coming together and just having a chat about what has gone past and there was such a collective energy as well. Right, absolutely. Now you have, I think I remember you mentioning that you've worked with ancestors a lot. Is that correct? Yeah, I do work with ancestors a lot. Yeah, so how would you, like if somebody wanted to connect with their ancestors and, you know, if it was somebody say from like, you know, the Western culture, a lot of times we don't really have a connection. We've lost it. How would you encourage somebody who really feels like they've lost much of that connection? How would you encourage somebody like that to reconnect or to find that ancestral connection? So interestingly for me, I think I kind of lost that connection for a while. For a while as well, I was being completely honest because as you kind of mentioned, I was away from home for 12 years and during that time I was more trying to adapt to the culture or the society I was in as opposed to the society I come from. And during that time I started to feel a sense of alienation, I think would be fair to say. I mean, don't get me wrong. I was really happy to live in all the cultures and have all the exposure that I did. But that was the sense of being like a tree that had had its roots kind of ripped out and is trying to put itself elsewhere and somehow the soil doesn't agree with you or something else is growing in its place. And those are all beautiful experiences and I think exposure is really important. But one of the things is that our ancestors actually never actually leave us. This is something I always tell people who are trying to connect with their ancestors. They are literally a part of you. In your genetics, in your biology they are always, always a part of you. So you don't actually have to go looking for them anywhere. So if you're looking to kind of get in touch with your ancestors the first thing you got to connect with yourself like what is it that you're seeking a solution for or an answer to. So a lot of times a lot of our gifts and also our challenges are inherited from someone and so if you're looking for guidance on a challenge that you're facing maybe addiction or maybe you're seeing a recurring pattern in your family you can reach out to them and they will in a way try to help you if they can. So one of the things that is done for example in Singapore is we've got something called Shrad which is like a two week period. And I think it's very similar to is it Samee in western I think during October around Halloween there's a period where like all souls day. Oh yeah, all souls day or the day of the dead in Mexico. Yeah, so it's actually a very similar concept and during that time it's said that the environment is more supportive to connect with our ancestors. At the same time of year? Because it usually works on the loaner calendar so in Singapore it will take place around September-ish and then in the Chinese culture it's around the same time maybe a couple of weeks before and you'll interestingly in Singapore you'll see the Chinese have their Hungry Ghost Festival and then after that they just will be having their kind of Shrad and the only way very easy way to make connection in Hinduism is to just offer a glass of water daily to your ancestors and you're welcome to drink that water after Right but it's the act of giving something to try and make a bond or reconnect and in the Chinese culture they do they burn, you know they burn ancestor money or they burn incense and all of us and another step is also that it's quite common they practice by spiritual practitioners is to actually make offerings to all the people whose descendants have forgotten or neglected them to kind of allow those souls as well the sense that yes they were here and yes their contribution mattered and it was valued because a lot of times when life passes on it could be a war there could be a murder, there could be all these unsolved things I don't want to go too much into that but this is actually one way you can kind of connect with them over time the other thing is also a lot of people you know may have unfinished or unresolved issues with their ancestors this is very common and they may have some pain attached and I think if you're looking to talk come from a spirit of compassion and understanding don't be like you did this to me and so I'm suffering and all this which is fine because I think that's part of the grieving process but if you come from a place of compassion and forgiveness they will want to connect with you but if you're in a place that's like anger and just big bitter it'll be very difficult for them to connect with you because they're not in the material world anymore I think the intention is very important okay to answer that question I think the intention is very important and also here it's also believed and I think it's some other cultures as well ancestors are kind of in between like they reside in this place called the Pitrulok which is translated to the land of the ancestors how original but it's kind of like in between between us and the divine okay so they understand us better maybe they're divine beings oh sure yeah and it's kind of similar to spirit animals too is that there's a certain kinship that we have with the animal world that the angels are amazing and wonderful and they're always there to help us but the animals have this like they're such amazing teachers in terms of how to actually live on the physical earth that the angelic realm you know yes they help us but it's they're not as directly you know mentoring as to exactly how to you know how to navigate things on earth so it sounds like a very similar thing is that yeah these are people who've been on earth yeah and especially if they suffered something that very similar to what you're going to they actually get it a lot better than you know someone who's like someone who's not from that experience because they have gifts too to offer you but yeah your ancestors they've been where you've been they get it I think the biggest takeaway just to wrap up we were very young like I think 20s maybe for some people last forever but anyways for most people after a certain age we start to kind of mature and the fact that you know in your early years you're like I'm a revolution I'm special I'm never going to be like that but then as you get older I'm just like and I think a lot of people go through this is to know that there's people that you can reach out to and who actually most likely want to reach out to you as well even if your relationship in your lifetime may not have been that good later on they will want to form some kind of bond and anyways even if you don't believe they're somewhere out there they still live inside you so there you go that's the thing about some of these things you don't really have to believe it you know but if you kind of keep an open mind and actually go through the rituals or you know talk to the person or the pattern or the spirit animal or it was you know that is there in spirit you don't even have to believe it like your mental mind doesn't have to believe it you know but if you do so with an open mind you may actually see some interesting results yeah this brings me to a question that I want to ask you are there any animals and I've talked about elephant but are there any animals that you feel have a particularly strong link to ancestors oh that's a really good question wow it's not something I've ever really thought about I mean I think the elephant really would be the biggest one to come to mind you know that makes me curious about if you could go and intentionally intend to connect with the animals that were associated with your ancestors because you know all humans we have our favorite animals or we've got our horses or our dogs or whatever you know this is something that's completely unknown territory to me but if we have any viewers who have experience with this I'd love to hear in the comments below if you've ever combined the reaching out to ancestors with reaching out to the animal spirits you know because that that could be something I'm kind of getting wolf maybe would be one because they have these lineages and this this very structured family structure and it just I'm just getting this gut feeling that wolf might be a one to really that could be an ancestral kind of animal very easily that's really interesting so I mean if we were to look at it because like Anubis was associated with the wolf like a lot of these gods that are related to the underworld are associated with that the dog or the wolf I think Paira in the tradition Yama I know there's a dog but I don't think it's associated with Yama what do you think is the special relationships that you know wolves and also dogs have with the afterlife that there's any or what do you feel um you know what I've noticed about dogs and I'm not like an animal communicator I work with more of the archetypes but what I have noticed about the dogs that have been in my life and kind of observations of other people in their dogs it feels to me like a dog will come in like an individual dog and it will come in at specific times in a person's life and with a specific mission to support that person through that part of their life that part of the journey and that's why they don't live as long as we do because it's like they're here with a very specific mission and this may be true of cats and other animals as well but dogs are the ones that I've really had more experience with and oh gosh I'm sorry I'm kind of like forgetting your original question I was just wondering no that's cool I know I totally I understand because you know dogs have you know they are our best friends for a reason I was just wondering if they have any connection to the afterlife because you see this pathology across the world where it's essentially a dog either to get positive or it's there to bring you over to the three you know servers the underworld and that kind of thing I think partly it's that they're you know they're companions they're going to follow you or be with you at any time and you know I can see that there may be a real kind of you know if you've had a number of dogs throughout your life and you pass you know most of the time a lot of the time they're going to they're going to stick with you your whole whole life and they're going to be with you when you pass and so I can see that there may be this sort of psychopomp this you know this ability to assist a soul in crossing this is just coming to me right now but it's just sort of like that's the feeling I'm getting is that some of these animals that are our companions in life part of their part of their mission and their their souls purpose for working with you is to assist you in crossing safely over and I don't know where that came from but that just kind of popped through that they could easily have that role a lot of them maybe not every single one of them but it wouldn't surprise me because they are so loyal and so forgiving and so just they they want to serve you they want to guide you they want to protect you you know and that's the other thing I've gotten about dogs in particular you know that they are super protectors and even on a spiritual level that even that you're fluffy or whoever you know who is with you at some level spiritually they're watching over you they're guarding you even when they're alive so I could see that that would be something that would fit really well with that type of animal I think it's interesting because with dogs like I think we do even in the modern world we see them as a part of us we don't see them as separate dogs like anyone who's had a dog in their life that they really loved and they really cared about it's a member of the family we've never seen them and they see themselves that way too I think they see themselves as your boss sometimes it depends on the dog and how you interact with it because a lot of them do it's usually when you get into trouble right yeah yeah yeah I noticed that because I had a little guy you know as I'm here he passed away and you know he had a very long life for a dog he was 14 years old and I remember that he so I was the one who decided to bring him home he was a Maltese and you know Maltese I don't know why but they have a very high abandonment rate yeah you know there's been a lot of statistics on this because people buy them because they're cute but then they kind of realize it's an actual duty to take care of them yeah I guess I was not meaning to ask you about this but what do you think happens to sometimes this bond that is maybe broken because I'm sorry I didn't mean to talk about this animal cruelty but I noticed a lot of dogs actually get abandoned and they kind of get or people don't take care of them and it's got to be the most heartbreaking thing imaginable for a dog it's got to be the most heartbreaking thing imaginable and you know I just I mean not to make anybody feel guilty right if they've had to leave a dog but they really do bond to you and I think if you're going need to give up a dog or something I think it's really important to do some ritual around it to talk to the dog to the dog's heart to heart spirit to spirit right and explain why and that you it's not because you know just whatever situation in your life and really you know help it to kind of make that transition because for a dog that's that's a type of death right to lose your person and yeah so I think oh my gosh I don't know what else to say about that but you know that's one reason why you know that a dog that has been rescued and you know there's a lot of reasons and also I don't want to make people feel guilty if they don't want to you know go get a rescue dog because there's a lot of issues that can happen that you don't know until you know the dog comes home with you and stuff so there's reasons to get a dog that wasn't a rescue and there's no judgment around it but I think when you do take in a rescue dog if they've had that experience of those broken bonds you'll find that once they do take you know accept you as their person it's like there's this deep level of of gratitude you know that they have such big hearts and they know it I mean if you've taken them in after you know something they're hardship it's like they are they have that gratitude it's incredible yeah that's really interesting that is very very interesting because I've never looked at it in that way like I've always you know you have a bond with them and you think of them I always thought of my as a sibling because he was the baby I was the baby of the family he came around and I was like a middle child almost that was kind of funny but yeah like it's interesting because they do have emotions and the depth that we I think don't really understand even though they're such a big part of our lives a lot of times they seem to get us better than we get them yeah well dogs are just emotional it's emotional mastery absolutely a dog I think more than any other animal that I can think of it's they are masters of emotion of reading emotion of that's really their primary language I mean ours is more through the mind right or that's at least where a lot of us have gotten to but for dogs it's like this emotional you know they're just so on that wavelength yeah yeah that's the interesting one I'm gonna have to think a little bit more about this because I've actually been thinking a lot about this topic for some reason over the past few years because the dog is actually another animal that's very linked to the ancestors interestingly yeah in a very different way so there's dogs there's crows in particular but yeah something I need to think about because this I find that with animals a lot of it there's a lot of folklore surrounding them because we were so close to them right we used to live alongside them for such a long time so we formed this bond with animals which I suppose now we formed with our cars our motorcycles I'm not really sure well our technology for sure and it's like we spent so much time interacting with the technology and you know there's positive things associated with that but there's also if you think about the amount of time that you spend caressing your technology and interacting with it and becoming vulnerable with it and getting having emotional reactions around it it's like yeah I mean we're it's either scary or amusing or whatever depending on how you look at it but just another reason to maybe unplug sometimes and head back into the woods head back into nature so you don't lose your humanity because losing our animal self I think is losing a really important part of our humanity in what way what do you think is the link between our animal self and our humanity because the animals are so connected with mother earth and they connect through their bodies they connect through their their spiritual awareness and they're on those wavelengths and they really feel it and we've a lot of us have lost that and that's why one reason that animals can kind of show us back the way um yeah so I don't know how this if there's any deities that you know you can call on to maybe help reconnect with that sense of being one with your um in your experience so one of the things that as far as work with deities goes in my mind it's a very long long process whether you're working with them or their animals is that in Vedic astrology first of all there are these deities that are assigned to you from birth um for most people which you can kind of if you have a look at your astrology chart get someone to look and explain it to you but working with deities I feel like there's like a progression at least that's what I've seen in my life when you're very small there's like moral stories very similar to fables for example if you waste food they'll say oh you're disrespecting Lakshmi you're like no no I don't want to disrespect Lakshmi I'm sorry but the cucumber is a part of her okay so I'll eat it so things like that are like a very basic level and then as you get older maybe you start going to the temples at the rituals at the customs but a lot of that is just sometimes it's just culture they're like oh I'm from this culture so I have to do it or I want to do it then you start reading the books and you start understanding the stories right and then at the very final level is where you actually start to connect with the deities and their energies themselves and then all that and for most people that connection usually comes a little bit later in life it's not a very young some people do connect with it at a very young age but a lot of times at that point you may not be mature enough to understand it fully um and also for me personally I believe that until your intellect is grounded on earth it's very difficult to fully understand and appreciate that that's just my kind of experience but I think each deity is associated with a certain animal both the male and female deities so they're the one that I I think if you were looking to connect with animals in particular I'd probably connect with Vishnu because he is associated with more animals than more animals than any other deity uh you know in hinduism because he's got the fish he's got the snake he's got the eagle he's got the tortoise he's got so many different animals under his care because he's the preserver and the sustainer of the universe this is Vishnu yeah this is Vishnu so he's just got so many animals under his care he's known to love them he's known to take care of them to be them so a lot of times for example I'm a big turtle's left for this person and I cannot see like if I see a tortoise or turtle being hurt like it actually hurts me I'm like don't do that don't do that and if you hear a lot of from hindus they'll say oh you can't hurt turtles because like you know the small moral story when you were a kid you can't hurt turtles because that's Vishnu and you're like no I won't hurt the turtle you know so yeah and he carries the burden of preserving and maintaining our Earth and so if there's a problem with the turtles they'll say oh there's a problem with Vishnu you know we can't do that and part of it is because you know part of it is their material life but part of it is also the energy they occupy as you said animals are closer to the Earth closer to the ocean and they themselves have memories of their collective consciousness and so yeah I think if you were looking to do any kind of work around animals you know in Hinduism it would be through Vishnu interesting yeah yeah and that's so interesting because it calls into the whole idea of sustainability and preserving life through just you know our everyday what we do yeah and also this idea that because every time the world gets out of balance like if you read the mythology he kind of shows up to balance things out interesting yeah so like you know species have got extinct and all of this kind of stuff over time and he's actually the one who kind of helps you know to either save a few so they can propagate later or kind of be like okay your time has come now it's time to go and so something else can come right right yeah because he's he's that preserved you know he's the preserve of what is and he lengthens the life of what is and yeah I think it's a Vishnu energy is very interesting to work with and I think in general because he's considered kind of the protector of the earth and the one who takes care of it and who tries to prolong its existence and he's also associated with the lion so yeah he's just associated with so many animals so yeah I mean there are other danes associated with animals too but usually they have one or two but he's got lots of them yeah yeah so yeah if you're kind of I think that would be a nice way wow so how do you connect with Vishnu um so for me I like songs yeah I really like songs so there's like some hymns that you can kind of connect with there's also because to me Hinduism has never really represented a religion actually the term Hinduism itself kind of came up in the 1930s 1940s this was in reaction to colonialism but before that it was just called like like Sanatana Dharma which is like the eternal truth or the eternal way and so I think the important thing is to go and find your own truth and not really listen to what anyone else is saying really I mean you can listen with an open mind and taking like different ideas but at the end of the day you have to arrive at your own truth so however you choose to connect with the deity I like the songs I like to go to temples I do a lot of those things well some people may want to read books and although I'm an author a lot of times I don't really do that if I'm trying to connect so find what works for you and understand it your own way is what I would kind of recommend are there any goddesses that you can think of that would be you know ones that would be maybe more connected with the animal world oh yeah that's actually an interesting question so the goddesses they embody the earth itself so they are the earth and usually there are a couple of animals that are close or associated with them like actually associated with the elephant and also the owl okay Parvati or Kali is associated with the lion the tiger and also the buffalo so they're all associated with a couple of animals but they're more associated with the land itself interesting okay as opposed to a particular like the animals that live on it right interesting yeah in some way or another yeah that's interesting and for some reason it's coming to me to just kind of mention that when you are working with spirit animals it can be a really powerful thing to also work in kind of connecting with their environment and taking that environment into account because that's the I mean the vessel right in which the animal develops you know that is very feminine kind of kind of thing yeah no that's actually quite interesting because yeah because I never really think of the goddess associated with animals I always think of like Nishmura which brings me to because the women is the land itself the ocean or the body the environment the things that are emanating I don't know I guess from somewhere else or the seed is fun I'm sure to use that archaic language but I guess I'm curious as to some of these animals you know we talk about animals going extinct and species going in from dinosaurs to all of us so I guess I'm kind of curious to ask the tortoise or turtle has been around since I don't know how long and you know they're a part of just about every mythology in every part of the world that I think I've gone to so what is your feeling about the turtle or the tortoise they're also part of all these lovely fables oh right yeah the tortoise and the hare I know what do you think it represents well I think if you look at like cross-culturally a tortoise or turtle often is going to be representing the earth right it's going to be this because it's so self-contained and it moves around both on the land and in the water so it has both those elements that are so important on the earth it's seen as kind of like the stable thing with the four corners right and you think of the four four directions or the four corners of the earth right and so the turtle has this kind of four corner kind of stability to it and it's often in many many myths it's seen as carrying the earth or the earth is actually the turtle is the earth but we're like riding around on the back of the turtle so it's that just seems like to be just about universal you know a lot of a lot of different cultures and very many different parts of the earth really to see the turtle as connected with the earth yeah yeah and I guess what do you think contributed to the longevity of this animal because I mean think about it's not really an apex predator it's not like it's kind of it's also mostly solitary as well if I'm not mistaken a lot of them are although a lot of times you see turtles kind of swimming sort of together yeah I'm like I'm going to be doing my next bird animal video will be the turtle so I haven't done a huge amount of research yet okay but watch for that I promise it'll be coming up within a month or so so yeah this are it's I don't know it's longevity it is just such an ancient ancient creature itself it's like you know they've got like turtle and turtle like creatures go back way way back into the myths of prehistory it's much older animal than many that are that are out there it's older than crocodiles and snakes so it's really I think when you're talking about ancestors right you know if you think about a species as having that ancestral connection with a bygone earth right a turtle is one that we can relate to you know it's one that we can interact with as opposed to like sort of microbes and whatever that are you know that are also at that ancient lineage but it's been around for so many eons it's got to have some sort of genetic memory of what a primal earth was like right you know in a way that I think maybe a more modern animal wouldn't so that could be part of that feeling that connection oh wow actually it's funny I have different thoughts about that like they would know the earth itself at that point like they would actually have the knowledge of you know this planet how it came to be how it's developed how it's grown all the comings and goings they've seen well they're probably just like I'll just keep on saying it was step by step yeah that's a that's a really interesting one yeah that just kind of came to me as we were speaking but I think you know there's something that that western society has largely lost and that's its veneration of the elders and you know that's so universal amongst peoples who have retained their kind of spiritual lineage it's so universal to be connected with the ancestor and I think that's why is because the ancestors have that connection they've been there they understand and they can bring up the wisdom and if you can think of that in terms of species too because some species have been around for so much longer and they will I really believe that they will carry that sense of understanding of the earth at such a deep level you know and because of that they understand us at a deeper level because they've seen us you know from our pre-evolution before we were anything anywhere near right a human being they've seen us evolve I mean if you believe in this whatever but they've been around through our whole history you know that's something that I think we could potentially and this might be a fun thing to do you know fun whatever but enlightening thing to do would be to connect with some of these very ancient animals and feel into ask them to assist us in reconnecting with a very elder kind of wisdom that is held in the earth right yeah I think that's an interesting point because I think I've been thinking a lot about this whole aging society thing and how so many cultures are talking about it first of all like it's a bad thing there are costs, there are this, there are that and yeah and it's interesting about the respecting one's elders and respecting their experience I think that's the main thing for I just think about myself 10 years ago and I've been working with some people who are also a lot younger than me and I think and you look back and you just think it's not so much like these young people but it's also like I used to be like that and sometimes people are there to guide you a place of experience not because they're better than you but because they've been there and they get it because they've been there and they've done that right and they can you know they can tell you the stories of how that they made mistakes right and it's not just you do this young man right but I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for excitement about the younger generations coming up right now I think so many of them are so spiritually aware and and so like a lot of them just have this innate sense of their own truth and innate sort of feeling of purpose and they're just waiting to bring they're going out and they're doing it they're going but then what I've also I'm also seeing and I think this is true of every generation coming up is that but I think especially in this generation because things have changed so much right and and we're suddenly all an online kind of culture that a lot of younger people and I don't want to generalize because there's exceptions or whatever but I think in general to generalize there's a lot of the younger generation that don't have the basic knowledge and I don't know how old you are I just turned 52 so it was just like just there as the whole technology started to really take a hold in terms of the computers but these generations don't they weren't raised with their hands in the dirt raised with their hands on physical toys moving, manipulating things, building things using their bodies in ways that connect the body and mind and so what I have noticed is there's a certain kind of like how do we do this how do you do this practical thing how do you change your car tire how do you write a check even like this and that I feel like there's this you know for anybody who's listening who's of my generation and older and anybody also who's listening who's younger is that there's I think it can be very very valuable for these two generations to really start hooking up and moving in tandem and supporting each other because each of them has and specific energies and skills that they can bring to bear and if they start to work together you know across the generations you know to start envisioning things how do we want things to be in the seven generations from now if we start thinking in those terms I think there's tremendous power in that yeah there's a lot of yeah a lot of young people know with incredible vision and incredible just energy to do things and just they're on fire and what all a lot of need is a little bit of practical you know guidance and you know here's how we can do this like the problem solving sometimes isn't there in the younger generations because they haven't had to actually manipulate things and figure out oh okay we just take this from over here and it's all been online a lot of online things are kind of guided they have wizards that take you through things yeah so sometimes even for anybody of any age just going back to some of the practical things whether it's gardening or changing a tire or whatever and working with physical things can be super empowering in many many levels yeah I was just I was just having like as you were talking just a lot of data because it's interesting that so when I was teaching in Japan actually one of the things I very much remembered about working especially with the young because I was teaching like a whole from like really young to like the elderly so to speak one thing I really thought was interesting was that some of their school projects included like planting paddy fields you know and they really had a very tactile learning experience which nowadays I mean they're still doing it in Japan because it's much more kind of traditional continuous society and their idea of a day out like if you talk to a lot of Japanese kids and they're like oh what did you do on the weekend oh I caught some crabs and then I released them back into the sea they do all they have all of these hobbies which to me I remember thinking oh what is this but then as you kind of play with nature because it's really what it is you're kind of playing with nature it creates a sense of muscle memory as well yeah it does which is very different to I think like being on the gadgets I mean it's a great tool to connect people especially in a look at how we met and it wouldn't have been possible but also to kind of balance that we talk a lot about balance balancing it with the earth the environment we are actually physically in yeah and not the one that's up here in our head and I know for me one of the places I feel most connected to a full of water oh yeah yeah whether it's like going for a swim or just like taking a walk you know by the coast like that for me that's such a nice and happy place because it's a meeting point and the air is fresh and you know you can daydream of what's on the other side of the shore and you know is it I don't know this is my imagination take full but is there a particular environment that you feel that is very connected to? I always feel just amazing when I go to the woods and so I've lived in the upper Midwest for most of my life of the United States but for much of my life it's been in the north woods and I feel like I have a very deep feeling of connection with the woods and and the land up here um yeah it's there's just something magical about it and it's really they call to me you know the woods for a little while I was kind of living after having lived up here for quite a while lived in Illinois just for about a year and it was like what's called me back like it's almost this tangible feeling but then you know there's specific spots or you know areas that can be very different from one area the north woods to another even even in the upper Michigan where I live um very very different landscapes so I think sometimes it's like you bond with particular very regional or local areas that I think there's there's spirits associated with all of those yeah yeah I mean I guess what what um what kind of drew you back like you know in a sense because connection with land is something that is very uh hard to really describe I mean I know for like you know we talk about animals for them it's very natural to kind of gravitate towards the same spot over and over again I guess we do too uh in some in some way um what is it is it like a magnetic pole that brings us back like what is it that kind of oh yeah maybe I don't know it's like when I came back here in 2014 it was just sort of at the beginning of this awakening process but I had this very clear sense that it was the land drawing me back calling me back um even even several years before that we had moved to Wisconsin and there was this draw to a particular area of Wisconsin where I we lived for about three years there was this real sense it was the land calling being called there by the land um and I've had that since even when I was a teenager um when my family was living in central Minnesota and it was a sense of like we had to move um I was devastated because there was a sense of connection with the land um so there's there's something the land we are connected with it and I think that that would be an interesting thing to just do some journeying about and inquiries about because um it feels like um you know my ancestry is like from largely Scottish or European um and I'm kind of recently started feeling real with draw towards Scotland and going back there too so I think it is in our genetics but I think there's something about the North America that really drew me here as a spirit as a soul that there's this connection here and I can't really explain it but um the land is so I don't know it's such a connection somehow yeah yeah because like I know like in astrology I've studied a little bit about and I think it's actually quite strongly tied to in feng shui there's a lot of uh I know a lot of people feng shui it's like interior design but there's another part of it which is like the connection to the land itself and that um a particular land or locality needs you and vice versa yeah yeah I think so yeah I think so yeah yeah definitely and the animals of that land will appear to you right and no matter what your ancestry you know if you've got a connection with that land you're going to start connecting with animals like so if you're you know maybe in Europe and you're connecting with hummingbirds or with kangaroos or something there's something there there's some kind of land connection this again is just coming through to me but I think there's there's definitely these connections speaking of connection how can people connect with you outside this this video oh right right so um there's my well it's not mine our website newsbooks.com there's also um the kind of business side of things which is sanatan so that's s a n a t a n c o sanatan code.sg which is more like my investment business side of things so yeah yeah so do astrology I write investment advice the usual shebang but at the end of the day we're all um like you know as you said we're all souls on our journey trying to figure it out and that's kind of right and I think with myth publishing you also work with emerging authors correct to help them get published so yeah so if you are writing a book thinking about writing a book or wondering how the heck it's gonna all come together deepest be a great one to connect with yeah especially in the spirituality mythology cultural heritage genres and that those are kind of my specialty so yeah I always love reading about it and also hearing from people who are generally working in it so yeah thanks well put those links below and Deepa thank you so so much for joining us today it's been such a pleasure yeah thank you so much for having me on like it's wonderful to be here with you and to have had a chat with you I feel yeah like I said my soul sister from half way across the world absolutely yeah awesome to have you on too so well thank you again and thank you everybody who's watching and uh just stay tuned like I said we'll have a turtle videos coming up hopefully within a few weeks and uh Matt if you haven't uh if you've enjoyed this and you haven't yet subscribed to the channel the links below just hit that bell for notifications and we'll catch you again soon