 It's been alleged that Rotima Meiji, a leader of the All Progressives Congress in River State, presented deceased persons and defectors as delegates for the APC Convention. A maglis Abbey's faction is making that allegation. And death toll in southern Kaduna killings is raising to 34. This is Plus Politics and I'm Kofi Rittals. Less than 24 hours to the March 26 National Convention on the Long-awaited National Convention of the All Progressives Congress ruling party in Nigeria. The internal crisis rocking the River State chapter of the party has taken a dramatic twist. The faction of the party loyal to Senator Maglis Abbey has alleged that the Minister of Transportation and Former Governor Rotima Chibika Meiji has presented names of dead persons and defectors as authentic delegates from the state for Saturday's National Convention. The faction said it observed that the deliberate, what it called the deliberate inclusion of deceased persons and persons who no longer are members of the All Progressives Congress on the delegates list already submitted for the Convention by the Minister. Now joining us to discuss this is the Deputy Spokesperson or the Deputy Publicity Secretary of the All Progressives Congress in River State to Darlington and Wuju and former Chief of Staff to the River State Government, Mr Tony Okocha. Gentleman is great to have you join us on Plus Politics. All right, we have Darlington first up. Thank you very much. Yes, yes, we're trying to get back to Tony Okocha, who we had joined us earlier. Darlington, would you, what's your reaction, you know, the reaction of the All Progressives Congress in River State to this allegation by the Magnus Abe faction, as it were, that the Minister of Transportation has presented dead people and members, well, people are members of the party on the delegates list for the National Convention? Well, I think that this is, this is a lazy, very lazy and file an accusation level on the passing of the Minister of Transportation. I think it's almost insulting to say that the Minister presented names of deceased persons. The Minister does not run the party. They are being an established structure of the All Progressive Congress in River State, which, as you can tell there, is refused to recognize. And so I think that there is a gap in their understanding of how the party has fed or how the party has been run or administered or managed in the past two years. Let me quickly say that since the dissolution of the National Women's Committee on Diary of Maganda, I've done to shumole on the conflict of June 2020, there has been a structure on grant, a critical community for the state. And I want to say with all intent on proposing that the current executive of the party, which Senator Magnus Abe has refused to recognize, and I think, I think that it is for this reason that I have refused to recognize the legality and the legitimacy of the existing school that has made him to go on, you know, these public theatrics and remand again. Now, the so-called dissolution is from the structure that has assisted the government. And if that is the issue, I want to say that it was mere secretarial, as the speaker has been corrected, that is not updated. And there is no problem, there are no issues again. Why do we need to petition the screening committee? Why do we need to go public, making all sorts of rants in order to attract public attention and public impact to a particular group of people? I dare say that the latest petition by Senator Magnus Abebe is a direct result of the decisions of the National Body of the APC to adopt a consensus option for nomination of candidates in the tomorrow's national convention. And because this has more faith on him, that is why he resorted to the latest digital drug publishing, but I think that it is very, very unnecessary. And I want to repeat that it is insulting to say that the minister presented the list of dead persons. For what? For what in terms? What was his time to benefit? The convention tomorrow, for those who know the inner organs of the party, they are both from my land and from my consultations on how and so, why would, or what would, how would the minister benefit from what they are talking about? How would the list of delegates is valid? Whether it is valid by 500, the results will still remain the same because there is a consensus agreement. So what are you talking about? So are you saying, Darlington, would you, that indeed names of dead persons were presented by the APC in River State to the National Body as delegates? Is that what you're saying? Govind Barthels, I said number one, the minister does not present names of delegates. Okay, that's number one. Okay, all right, all right. So, so, okay, of course, we, we, we, we have Darlington, would you, and Tony Kocha, we join us. He's already on standby. Mr. Kocha, are you there, please? Okay, I hope that our team can, can work on that because Tony Kocha says he can't hear Darlington, but I'll come back to your Tony Kocha in a bit. But Darlington, yes, the issue with incontention is not that M. H. E. signed the, the delegates list, but I asked the question. I said, is, are you saying that the party had initially done what it was accused of in River State, that is present the names of dead people as delegates? Is that what you say? Govind Barthels, I am saying that if there were errors which in every human organization, which in every human arrangement is very, very possible, that the names of persons who are man leads or persons who are man like a party is found on that list. And I'm saying that that list was inherited. Do not forget, Govind, that the convention of this party has suffered plenty of delays. It's been delayed for two years. Do not forget that fact. Okay. And so I am saying that the component executive inherited that list. Okay. So, so they inherited the list from, from who? Was it from Isaac Bogula or from who? Right from the time of Isaac Bogula. Okay. The issue of convention planning has been on Grand Bogula. All right. So, so is it, is it that a make up a kid did not look at the names on the list he was sending? Because of course, you'd have to, you'd have to type, you'd have to type. How? Okay. Okay. Okay. So, is it that he didn't see or what? Because I mean, I'm looking at the names there. And then I can see, I can see for instance, Public Secretary Senebokri Sfinbun. Is Senebokri Sfinbun still the, the Public Secretary of the party? Of course he is. Okay. All right. All right. Let's go to Chief Tony Okocha. Chief Okocha, what's your take on this? But before I take your take, Chief Okocha, are you, are you still a member of the All Progressives Congress? Because I mean, we've seen you, you know, moving, you know, and being around the governor of River State, Chief Yasun Wike. So what would have thought you had left, you had left the party? What's your thought on this delegates list? Because I can, I'm assuming that you are part of the faction of the party that is, is, is crying far my corrector. Okay. Okay. Okay. Chief Tony Okocha, we have, yeah, Chief Tony Okocha, we have the deputy publicity secretary of the All Progressives Congress in River State on the line. Now he has said that all that is, is happening. I've seen the, yeah, yes. This is a deputy publicity secretary of the All Progressives Congress in River State. That's, that's Darlington, would you? But, but I've seen, I've seen, yes. So I've seen the letter signed by Honourable Barrister Wogubom is that's a petition, the former attorney general of Cross, of River State. Now the, what the All Progressives Congress in River State is saying, as led by Meka Mike, they're saying is that this list with the deceased persons like Martin's, the late Honourable Martin's manna, the late Honourable Apollo Samadhi, the late Chief Dominic Okocha has their names on this list. They're saying it was a secretarial error. It was a secretarial error. They just said the previous list, it had been existing before now. All is to find out that this, so they have Wogubom's to thank, that Wogubom's actually helped them find out that it was a secretarial error. The, the Arran mountain, I'm sorry for you that the, that the truth of the matter is not good at the case. The letter that the Meka's petition signed to the National House of the All Progressives was this 16th February, 2010. And I said that he signed off all the petition. In other words, he would have thought that before he signed, what it means once someone has signed the petition on a particular document. You are owning up the document. So for anybody who doesn't say that it was a secretarial error or attempt to defrost the petition, deliberate attempt to cast a secretarial list for Wogubom information or whatever they want to achieve. It was conceived in same intention. So nobody can say that it was a secretarial error. What's that? Okay. All right. Dalton, would you listen to, and I hope you heard Chief Tonokocha and what he said, is questioning your, your excuse of this errors being secretarial in nature. Can you break down to us what really happened? Because what Chief Tonokocha said is incontrovertible in terms of what he, he saw on the paper, which is the signature of Meka Beke on all the pages. And I'm looking at a copy of the paper here. The, the, the delegates list with the, in the, on the letterhead of the River State Chapter of the All Progressives Congress signed by Chief Meka Beke, who's a state chairman. And his signature is on all the pages that has some of these deceased persons and then the rest who, whom Wogubom says are imposters and were never principal officers of the River State House Assembly. So what do you say to that? Chief Tonokocha has also said this letter was dated February 16, 2022. So he's doubting your excuse of a secretarial error. Dalintin. Coffee. Can you hear me coffee? Loud and clear. Loud and clear. Good. Good. Now I want to say that with his responses so far, has he considered to the fact that all this wire, he has been misleading the public on the legitimacy, the legality, the authenticity of the Meka Beke leg executive of the APC in River State. If he's not, if he still doubts the authenticity of that school led by Meka Beke, why are the actions of the executive under Meka Beke still bothering him? Why is he calling his actions to question? It means that he has considered to the fact that indeed there is a legally recognized party structure in River State. That is number one because he has not been able to convince me as to why and how the actions of Chief Meka Beke will suddenly begin to affect the interests of his whole group because he has claimed on several platforms that Chief Meka Beke is not a party chairman in River State. So his allegations against the party does not hold water. The grounds upon which he is standing to make such claims does not hold water because he does not recognize the Meka Beke. He does not also recognize me. So how would I be speaking to somebody or arguing with somebody who does not have the right to talk up in the state? That leads to Chief Tonio Koccha ask the same question. Yes, I'll come to the point please. But that leads to asking, that leads to please, please. I am saying that Chief Tonio Koccha does not recognize the Meka Beke. Yes, I know. I heard you. I'll post the question to him. He did not recognize the Meka Beke. Yes, I heard you. I heard you. I put the Meka Beke message and the legality of the APC University. Yes, yes. I just need to ask you a quick question down there. If the Meka Beke signature or any document authenticated by him stands even in the face of the law and is recognized by the national secretary of the party, why then has he been going around all platforms to say that there is no legally recognized Meka Beke? Let's give him a chance to respond. Let's give the Meka Beke a chance to, sorry, Chief Tonio Koccha, a chance to respond to the allegations you've made. Chief Okocha, are you still there please? So he is saying that you in particular and those members of the APC in your block have previously questioned the legitimacy of Meka Beke and his ex-co. So why are you now worried with his list and the contents of his list if he's not legitimate? What do you say to that? I hope you heard what he said. So please go on. Well, this program is yours. So don't allow either of my friends there or myself to take you away from the subject. Now, the subject matter here is not about the legitimacy of Meka Beke. Yes. We'll come back to the list, but just so that we can give everyone a chance to. Yeah, so he does that. I'm moderating sir. He's a mother in the court. I'm concerned. Well, his question to you, Chief Okocha, his question to you is, yes, if it's in court and you don't recognize Meka Beke, why are you worried about this list? Since to you, he's not the chairman of the party. We are worried, yes. We are worried clearly because my brother was talking about law. How can you, whether you are legitimate or illegitimate, confide a list and send to the international community? I was saying that this was done on the consent of the party. I'm sure it doesn't make the decision here. Yes indeed. It was not done in November. It was called on the consent of Meka Beke, and when he claimed that he was chairman, and he sent it all to the court. That's the point we are making. I was saying that the decisions he put us in this list were theirs, or let me say that they had them, and we have noted about seven or seven. I'm sure they have noted that the former president of Pribarty, he's excellently dominant in the case, and he's from, okay, a moment as he's glad that he's the chairman. Ask him if Abany survived. So how can he claim that he's the president of Pribarty? So the issue is that the Pribarty is in court. And as a party member, there is no limit. So I can discuss the facts. I'm a founding member of the court. So there's no limit that we are trying to justify. You are saying that it is fraudulent, and I said I thought it was fraudulent for Meka Beke, and it's so wrong, that my government minister also said it was fraudulent. So the fact that the Pribarty is in court, that's the point I'm making. Okay. All right. I'll come back to you in a bit, Chief of Culture. I'm dying to do, over to you. He said that, you know, this matter of a chairmanship of the party, legitimacy of Meka Beke's chairmanship, and his executive, including you, is a matter of a court case. So he would not want to comment on that. Can you hear me? Loud and clear. Did you hear him? Very good. Very good. Now, I want to pose a straight question to my senior friend, Chief Tony Okocha KSG. I want to ask him a very simple question, because he's a philosopher of very high repute by training. Now, can a non-legal entity commit fraud? Okay. All right. Chief Okocha, are you there, please? Yes, I'm here with you. Okay. I hope you heard his question to you. Yes, yes. Okay. Please, over to you. Now, can a non-legal entity commit fraud? Yes. He says, can a non-legal entity commit fraud? Very well. 100 percent. Yes. I hold him in high high high, and he knows me, will know after a very, very long. And I'm sure that you understand what you're talking about. We talked about that. Committing fraud. Yes, it's there. What is fraud for it? And you know the definition. Chief, you want to talk to the pastor, where you want to solve that, where you want to do the things that are wrong. And I said that it has also definitions about fraud. So a non-legal entity can commit fraud. Okay. All right. Darlington, I think your question has been answered, but I want to come back to you. I don't think so. No, no, no. I'm not satisfied with this response. I'm not satisfied. What's your answer, Darlington? I'm not. No, no. All I'm trying to drive at, the point I'm trying to make out of all this, is the fact that whereas he and his group believes that Chief Emeka Beke is not legitimate, and that the legitimacy or otherwise of Chief Emeka Beke is contentious. It is a matter subject to judicial interpretations. Now, why are the activities of Chief Emeka Beke male bordering him and his group? Because if the court male decides to declare the actions of Chief Emeka Beke later school, if the court decides to avoid his actions and the actions of the school, he therefore avoids everything he has done. So why can't he relax, calm his nerves, and allow the courts to make pronouncements? Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Darlington. So now, he has made some points which I'd like you to respond to. Which I have to go through. Yes, yes. To all the young people I have, I have to connect and go play with them. Darlington, can I please do my job? Darlington, hold on. Go ahead. Yes, please. Do me the honest. Thank you. So he's saying, this Chief Tonicotcha is saying that it's impossible for Emeka Beke to feign ignorance of the fact that on this list of delegates sent by the Rivers A.P.C. to the national body, you have dead people and you have what the Walker Bombs called impostors, people who never wear principal members of the River State House of Assembly. And Tonicotcha's reason for saying that is that Emeka Beke took a pen and signed every single page of that delegates list. And Tonicotcha believes it would have been impossible for Emeka Beke to not see the names there and go through those names to know who is who. Is it possible, Darlington? So tell us what do you have to say to this? First of all, I have said in my prologue that it was a secretarial error. And I've been admitted soon. I still want to go back to my previous argument. So hold on, hold on, please, Darlington. When you say secretarial error, Tonicotcha, I don't know if you're there, but I think, okay, the last thing he said was that he does not understand what you mean by secretarial error. When Emeka Beke took a pen and signed on the paper, he took a paper and signed, you know, I mean, is it possible that the party chairman would not go through the delegates list because that's the list that will be sent to Abuja? Kofi, let me ask you a question. Have you ever had a document that has had the challenge of the printers there before? Have you ever had documents that had typographical errors before? Of course. Have you ever had a situation where, you know, by whatever human machinations or human fallibility? Yes, you're talking about human fallibility. So what really happened? I am saying that this was an error and that it has also been corrected. That is one and that is the fact that that error has been corrected. No, but I am still asking and I want to know why. Okay, so that's the thing you were saying. So can you furnish us with the... Because it should be to an advantage for him if the actions of Chief Emeka Beke are later voted by the courts. Okay, so when was the correct list sent to the ABC National? Immediately it was dictated. When, sir, was it... Immediately it was dictated. That's all I can say. So was it immediately you got to win, the party got to win that of Wogubom's petition? Because immediately it was dictated. No, no, no. Immediately it was dictated called the attention of the party. It was corrected and sent. Was this before or after Wogubom signed petition? Coffee, let me assure you that that error has been corrected. Yeah, was it before Wogubom's... For me to review confidential information on public platforms. No, I mean... In the confidential information. All right, Chief Tonnekocha, are you there? Hello, Chief Tonnekocha, are you there? Hello, Tonnekocha, can you hear us please? Okay, we'll try and get back to Tonnekocha. But Darlington, would you... Maybe you could avail us of a copy of this new list so we can look at it. But the issues and the internal wranglings within the APC and River State are still on, despite the new executive that we have. What's going on in the party? Why has the APC and River State not been able to bring everyone together with this new... The likes of Wogubom, Tonnekocha, Golden Shilma and Co. No, Coffee, there is nothing like that, I think. All right, we seem to be having a... That all these children of the media, are you there helping? Yeah, yeah, go on, we'll listen to you, go on. Are you there? Yeah, that is the creation of the media. Because as you may know, the delegates of the party are on ground waiting for the world to cast their votes. And so, whatever argument anybody is making anywhere, it's immaterial. Good thing the other people are laying claim to the file that there is a soliciting case in court. So all well and good news. All right, Darlington, we seem to be losing you, maybe it's a network issue, but Chief Tonnekocha, are you there? Hello, Chief Tonnekocha, are you there, please? Okay, Netric has played a fast one and that's, of course, ongoing conversation regarding the All Progressives Congress in River State, and of course it never seems to leave the headlines. Very, very robust arguments from both sides. The All Progressives Congress Executive in River State, led by Mika Beke, is saying that it was a secretarial error that led to the inclusion of dead persons, former members of the All Progressives Congress in the delegates list set from the state chapter of the party to the national body for the forthcoming national convention. And with the names of some persons who were not ranking, or let's call it leading figures in the All Progressives Congress, as far as the River State House assembly is concerned, walker bombs in that petition he signed describe them as in posters. He said that they were so presented, names included on the list were never in the position ascribed to them, and they were so presented as such so as to bring them into the delegates list since being a member of the House of Assembly does not qualify you for that. So this talking about the principal officers of the River State House of Assembly, we do not say that they were not in the state legislature, walker bombs argues, on the dates listed against their names. We state that it is not true that they were principal officers as as claimed. We have to go and of course I will continue to watch this space and bring you the latest as far as the national convention of the All Progressives Congress is concerned. I want to say thanks to the former Chief of Staff, the River State Government House, Antonio Cota, and the Deputy Publicity Secretary of the All Progressives Congress in River State, Dallington would you for joining us tonight. Thank you for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return we'll discuss fresh killings in Southern Kaduna and the way forward we'll be right back.