 I'd like to call to order the 13th regular meeting of the Sheboygan Common Council for 2019-2020. Would the clerk please read the quote for the meeting? Thank you Mr. Mayor. If you want something you never had you have to do something you've never done. Thank you very much. Alderborn is excused at this meeting. Could the clerk please call the roll? There are nine present. Very good. Today we have some guests from Sharon Abel's civics class. The LTC students are with us and I'd like to ask them to please stand in place and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from our last Common Council meeting, Alderperson Wolfe. Motion to approve. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor please signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Next is resignation. I'll turn it over to city attorney Charles Adams. We have one resignation. Jake Denbore is resigned from the Board of License Examiners, effective immediately. Thank you very much. Alderperson Wolfe. Thank you, Mayor. I make a motion to receive and file. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion passes. And then we have a resident, next is item is public forum, city clerk. Mike Martin, could you state your name and address for us, please? Mike Martin, 2326 West Shelley Court, Sheboygan. Thank you. You'll have five minutes. Hello, everybody. My name is Mike Martin. I am a sports announcer for WSES TV here in Sheboygan. Some of you might know us as TV8. That was back in the day. What the sports arena does from TV8 or WSES is we announce football, basketball, and some baseball games throughout the course of the school year. And that's for the four high schools in town. We also cover some Lakeland and UWS games also. My question is, this is rhetorical, why does a budget cut WSES sports when is the most popular service we provide? We have a long history here in Sheboygan of covering sports since 1982. I believe it started with a game they covered in the Armory when North played Kohler. Kohler was led by a player by the name of Joe Wolfe. And Sheboygan North wound up winning that game. And from that point forward, Sheboygan is always covered sports. For the last 22 years the city has run the TV station and we've covered sports. Last year this was cut from the budget. I haven't done a game yet. I should have about seven football games done. Now I'm not up here promoting me earning money. That's not it. I do a job that I love. My announcing partner Chris Wright is over on the side. I can speak for him. We love doing that job and we miss it. And I know the kids miss it. We do it for them also. The basketball season is upon us. Football season is pretty much done in terms of a broadcast schedule. I'd like to see what we could get done with that. I know that I came in this afternoon and I do want to thank Kerry Arons and Meredith DeBruin for their help to gather information so I can speak like a semi knowledgeable person. I know that the franchise fees are down. I know that the city has drawn $50,000 from a balanced fund to try and fund the station. And I appreciate those efforts on your part. The station is important. But also keep in mind when you cut the sports from it, you're cutting the most popular service that we provide. So the people are still paying the taxes but they're not getting the fund or partingly getting the service that I think they should have. We learned from the city, the station, that if we wanted to cover a game we had to charge $500 a game. So with that ballpark figure let me proceed. We were told that to get that $500 we needed to either have the schools pay for the broadcast or to get sponsors and I know I speak for more people out here but I'll say it if I was a parent of a kid in school and they were going to spend $500 a broadcast a game I would not be in favor of that. I think that's a misuse of money. I think this is something that we as a community should be able to fund. Also if we were to have to do that who's responsible from our station to go out and get funding? We're not experienced in that and we don't know about gathering funds and getting ads on TV in that regard. For the school year this is when we operate and I talked to Scott a little before our meeting is you adjusted your schedule slightly last year because of the change but normally our sports broadcast schedule runs through the school year and it usually encompasses about 32 dates or games which is $16,000 according to the city's fee schedule. The basketball season like I said is upon us that's 18 games $9,000. Now work with me here we are not being funded this year this was on last year's budget. What I want to do is two things one get us back in the budget that's why I'm here tonight because you're going to talk about next year's budget. We're off in 2019 put us back on in 2020 please it's a service we provide to the community we provided this service for a long long time let's keep it going. Second point what do we do about this year we're out of the budget aren't we there's nothing we can do budget was passed we're good we're done what I'm asking you for is funding for the basketball schedule $9,000. I know money is tight. Carrie told me that you took the $50,000 out of the balance fund to fund us for this coming budget. Mike your five minutes is up. Thank you very much. Thank you next we'll continue with a presentation tonight. This is a livable communities action plan and Vicki Schneider our director of senior services will be making the presentation. Speak with you tonight about the livable communities action plan. You should have a copy or received a copy with your agenda this evening so Meredith do you have okay thank you and you can go to the next one. So what makes a community livable the World Health Organization has established eight domains or eight categories that makes a community a livable community and so you can see those eight listed on the PowerPoint. What this really is is like universal design for a community so that people can gather they can get to the place they want to go to they live in homes that are affordable accessible they can participate in social activities and encourage multi-generational experiences access to technology and health care so that they can stay healthy in their homes for as long as they are able to and to be able to age in place. So getting started this is a we're in the second year of our two-year process as AARP established this initiative in the United States that Daryl Huffland as city administrator went to Wendy Schmitz who was the senior activity center supervisor and asked her to begin this initiative and so she did a lot of work there was a lot of prep work in this and there was a task force that was established and that is on page one if you want to see all the different participants who were in this program. So the last piece of information that Wendy was able to establish was our mission and vision. So which our mission of the livable community's task force is to promote the positive attributes of the city of Sheboygan through collaboration advocacy and engagement and our vision is that all community stakeholders will be connected to and demonstrate pride in the city of Sheboygan. We know that we have come a long way but we know that there's a lot more work that we have to do. This is about at the same time that I was that I became an employee of the city about six months ago and during this transition of Wendy handing it off this task to me we then established a logo and this was the workout again of several people on our task force Mary Matisca, Sarah Schwaefel helped with this, John Ross, Nancy Marring and myself met several times to clarify what we what it is that we wanted to have this this look like and then we established the action plan and there are three components to the action plan that we that were critical for us that we wanted it to be aligned with the city of Sheboygan strategic plan. We did not want to have something that was going off in a direction that that didn't match. It obviously had to have the eight domains addressed in it and it also had to be in alignment with our mission and vision so we wanted to make sure that it was a collaboration between all different organizations within the city that it advocates for those who are in need of services and that it's invitational. So we submitted this plan in August of 2019 and thankfully our plan was approved as submitted and we had some very positive feedback as a result of that that the communities that reviewed our plan were very pleased with the thoroughness and the completeness of our of what we submitted so very pleased to have that done. We are one of three cities in the state of Wisconsin that actually submitted and had a plan accepted so we are with Greendale and Shorewood as the other two communities. The city of Wausau is entering into this initiative and also the city of La Crosse joined this year so we're very pleased with that. Our action plan is currently up on the on the AARP livable communities website so if you wanted to look at it yourselves you are able to to see that. Next slide please. So why did we pursue this? This is something that as the director of senior services I just wanted to be able to share with you that the task force wanted to be sure that everyone was included in this livability plan that it wasn't just for older adults but as the director of senior services it's my role to make sure that we are attentive to those who are seniors. So you can see from the 2010 census I I got this from the fact finder U.S. Census Bureau information that our senior population is growing in the community which is not a bad thing. It's great that people live a long and healthy life. If you look at the statistics that 65 and older we have as the estimate of 2017 that 7471 individuals are 65 and older in our community. About two-thirds of those have no disability. 95 percent of those folks are non-institutionalized. That is not my word I don't like that word but that means that they don't live in a facility like a nursing home or assisted living. It means that 95 percent of those who are 65 and older live in their own homes or an apartment or with family and so that's an important thing to note that most people do not live in nursing homes. However about 20 percent of our older adults live at 150 percent or below the poverty line so that's a significant number of people that we need to address through this initiative and the median age of those who are 65 and older is 74.9. So that's the why we know that the older people get the more invisible they can come in our society and it is my role to give those people a voice. Next slide then please Mary. So then how do we get to this so this is the how. So this is an unfunded program or initiative but that also gives us the freedom to do what we can with the resources that we do have and through the advocacy of the Senior Activity Center I believe that we can then tell our story that we are a vibrant community that we're a welcoming environment for people who are older and that we have the opportunity to develop multi-generational experiences and the Senior Activity Center's mission is also evolving its mission its vision and its values to support the mission and vision of the livable Sheboygan community efforts so that we can be that influence and resource for the community. So thank you. Do you have any questions? Thank you very much for that presentation. See no questions appreciate your efforts tonight. Next we'll go on to Mayor's announcements. Today was our Park Reservation Shelter opening day. If you missed today and you want to have your 2020 event in a city park reservations are available at the Department of Public Works Municipal Services Building on New Jersey Avenue. Today we held ribbon cutting for the Library Plaza renovation. The ribbon cutting ceremony was held today at the newly renovated Meade Public Library Plaza. The project which began in spring included repairs to the Lawrence Halperin design water feature outside the library with improvements to the walkways and seating areas in the surrounding building. The parking lot entrance and book return were also reworked to improve access for patrons using disability parking. In addition the four brass sculpture panels by a local artist Sharon Quaches were reframed and relocated to the A Street side of the Plaza. Curbside leaf collection will begin next Monday October 14th from Monday October 14th through Friday November 22nd. City residents are allowed to rake their leaves into piles into the street for easier and faster pickup by crews. But you have to make sure that you leave the gutter open so that if we do get rain that can can get through to the sewers. Public Works Department has divided the city into five sections for leaf collection one zone for each day of the week and DPW crews will concentrate their efforts within the assigned zone on each of the appropriate days. There's an emerald ash borer land owner workshop on October 9th at five o'clock at Maywood. This is a free session and the workshop will help to inform you about regarding EAB emerald ash borer identification, physical, financial, and ecological impacts of the infected ash trees on private property, and what options are available to homeowners in response. The Sheboygan Metropolitan Planning Transportation Improvement Program is being revised and a draft of that is available for a public hearing on October 16th. The public hearing will be held at the Mead Public Library from four to five o'clock in the Roka Room and all interested persons are invited to comment on the draft document at the public hearing. Sheboygan has scheduled Drug Take Back Day for October 26th. Our location in Sheboygan will be St. Nicholas Hospital on Superior Avenue and the Drug Take Back Actility will be open from 10 o'clock to one o'clock. And then the Friends of Mead Library having their book sale on August 24th through 26th. The sale will be held again in the Roka Room in the library's first floor and feature a range of fiction, nonfiction, children's books, collectibles, rare books, coffee table books, cookbooks, crafts, CDs, DVDs, art books, and more. The sale hours are from nine o'clock to eight o'clock on Thursday, nine to five on Friday, and nine to three on Saturday. And we want to wish everybody a happy Halloween at the end of the month and plan ahead for trick or treating hours. We'll be on Halloween October 31st from four to seven p.m. Next we'll go on with hearings. The first hearing is item 2.1, number two of hearing number two of 1920 pursuant to Chapter 65-90 of the Laws of Wisconsin. Notice is given that the annual budget hearing will be held this evening and any taxpayer or resident of the governmental unit will have the opportunity to be heard on the proposed 2020 budget. Is there anyone wishing to be heard? Yes, please step up, give us your name and address. Crossley, I live at 2630 North 9th Street in Sheboygan. I'm the secretary for the Sheboygan Pops concert band and I just heard this morning about this budget meeting going on in this hearing and I'm the new secretary so I'm not very familiar with the process but I tried to review the budget online and I didn't see any funding for the band and so I guess I'm here to ask I know the funding for last year, the city funding for the band was reduced and I'm here to ask if there's any funding in your budget for the band this year. We are the city band, we give free concerts in Fulton Park. In the summer we give six free concerts. We have free winter and spring concerts. We perform at the city's Memorial Day program and we perform in the Fourth of July parade. Our budget is fairly small. In 2018 the city gave us $7,400. In 2019 that was cut to $4,400. And so I guess I'm here to find out if there's funding in the budget for the band or what is happening. I think we are an asset to the community. We give these free outdoor concerts in the summer and we perform as I said in the Fourth of July parade in the Memorial Day program and so I guess I would like to encourage the city to continue funding the band. I don't know what else to say. Thank you very much for being here tonight and appreciate your comments. Okay. Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? All the person wolf? Thank you mayor. I make a motion to recede to close the hearing. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Next we'll move on to the consent agenda. Item 3.1 is our consent agenda that will include items 3.2 through 3.10. All the person wolf. Thank you mayor. I make a motion to receive and file all ROs, receive all RCs and adopt all resolutions and ordinances. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on any of those items that are on the consent agenda? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll for passage? Nine ayes. Motion passes. Under communications, items 4.1 through 4.3 will be referred to the city plan commission. Under reports of officers, 5.1 is RO number 83 of 1920 by the senior services commission to whom is referred RO number 79 of 1920 by the director of the senior services submitting the final livable communities action plan. City of Sheboygan, Wisconsin dated 2019 of August of 2019 and recommends receiving the RO and the livable communities action plan. All the person wolf. Thank you mayor. I make a motion to receive the RO and livable communities action plan. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Item 5.2 and 5.3 will be referred to the finance and personnel committee. Under resolutions, item 6.1 through 6.7 will be referred to various committees. Under reports of committees, 7.1 is RC number 145 of 1920 by the finance and personnel committee. To whom was referred resolution number 89 of 1920, all the persons wolf and sorenson imposing a residential recycling fee for services provided by the city recommends adopting the resolution. All the person donahue. Thank you mayor. With respect to both 7.1 and 7.2 which are identical resolutions but for the committee they came from. I move that we accept the report of both committees and adopt the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Those items are before us for discussion. Seeing no discussion, will the clerk please call the roll. Nine ayes. Motion passes. Item 7.3 is RC number 147 of 1920 by the public works committee. To whom was referred resolution number 90 of 1920 by all the persons wolf and sorenson authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter into recycling partnership grant agreement with the recycling partnership Inc and recommends adopting the resolution. All the person wolf. Thank you mayor. I make a motion to receive the RC and adopt the resolution. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. Nine ayes. Motion passes. Item 7.4 is RC number 148 of 1920 by the finance and personnel committee. To whom was referred direct referral resolution number 93 of 1920 by all the persons down a human born authorizing adjustments in the 2020 budget which was requested and recommends adopting the resolution. All the person down a hue. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? All the person down a hue. Thank you mayor. I would just note that this particular resolution refers to adjustments in TID earnings through the year that should be reflected in the 2020 budget. It also reflects the loss of shared revenue on the basis of the closure of one part of the Edgewater power plant. Thank you Todd and so in that respect these seem to be reasonable adjustments to the 2020 budget. Thank you for those comments. Is there any other discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. Nine ayes. Motion passes. Item 7.5 is RC number 149 of 1920 by the public works committee. To whom was referred general ordinance number 19 of 1920 by all the persons, Wolf and Sorenson, repealing and recreating chapter 102 of the Sheboygan-Mispo code relating to solid waste and recycling and amending section 1-14 sub A2 regarding the issuance of citations and recommends adopting the ordinance with the addition of a sentence to section 102-45a that provides the Department of Public Works issued container shall be removed from the location designated for pickup in sub section B prior to six o'clock p.m. on the scheduled collection date. Alderperson Wolf. Thank you Mayor. I make a motion to receive the RC and adopt the substitute ordinance. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion? Alderperson Donahue. I did this is a very long revision to a very long ordinance and has a lot of moving parts to it and I was wondering I don't mean to put director Bebel on the spot but you know why not and would you just briefly explain how we're going to communicate all of these various changes to our residents please. Yes I'd be happy to. Basically this ordinance puts us in alignment with the model ordinance that the Department of Natural Resources that manages and sets the guidelines and regulations for recycling throughout the state. They provide a model ordinance so we're matching that now but yes a lot of this does affect what I would say is the going to be our what we have for our new cart based collection so we will be doing direct flyers to every resident. We'll have a web page dedicated to the new rollout of this program so there'll be several methods as well as videos that we're going to be producing as well as at the Common Council meetings coming in the future when we get closer to the rollout we'll do a large presentation on this material as well so there's going to be a variety of I guess methods and means to communicate this as well as multiple opportunities as well that's going to be a sustained program starting already in the month of November with some of our earliest information to go out to the residents. Thank you for those comments is there any other discussion or questions seeing none I'm sorry Barb Feldy. Thank you Mayor. I just have one question it says issuance of citation is there a warning system built into this I mean that's going to be probably the biggest concern is for those that don't get the information some way or another that at least they'll be warned before they're cited. Yes and that's how we currently operate as of today this just formalizes it in the ordinance what we do is we typically do a leaflet drop off if something was processed wrong or put in the wrong bin or garbage container as we speak and if that continues then we do a personal visit we'll stop and we'll actually work with them explain what we need to do and what how to comply and obviously after multiple attempts if they're still non-compliance then we would probably go into the the citation. Thank you very much any other discussion or questions seeing none will the clerk please call the roll. Nine eyes. Motion passes under general ordinances item 3.1 general ordinance number 20 of 1920 by all their persons Donahue and Wolfe amending section 82-33 of the Shpoigen Municipal Code is to modify the city hall department's table of organization older person Donahue. Is there any objection to suspension seeing no objection please proceed. Thank you for that motion and support. Under discussion first of all I'd like to turn it over to Administrator Hofflin to explain a little bit more about this situation. Thank you Mayor Van der Steen at a meeting held earlier tonight a special meeting of the finance and personnel committee for discussion purposes for discussion purposes only this topic was discussed and additional handouts were received by those committee members. The timing of this issue before you tonight as as older person Donahue identified is requiring a suspension and possible consideration as this is appearing before you for the first time. The sense of urgency on this is as a result of a resignation of a staff member who is currently in a senior accountant position. This person has been with the city for approximately four to five months during that time she has become a valuable part of our staff and as a result our concern is that an action plan that was recently presented to the finance and personnel committee and was received with significant concern that even the identify three to five year timeline to resolve some of the issues may not be timely enough and that possibly the city staff should consider even a one to three year timeline. This senior accountant position we feel is and this person who's currently feeling that role would be critical as the city moves forward especially if the timeline expectations by the common council are more aggressive in nature and as a result the timeliness for consideration of modifying the position upgrading the position to be a deputy finance director is before you tonight. The job description or position description was again distributed at the meeting held by the special finance and personnel committee. As part of that job description there is an identification of a higher pay grade assignment. The ease of describing this change is basically to identify what the market value or control point for both positions are and it's approximately 16 to 17 thousand dollars. So and again I identify that to give you a sense as far as the assigned value not only for internal comparison purposes of similar job duties level of responsibility but also external comparables in checking with other municipalities for a similar type job. This dollar amount should not be should not be used for purposes of identifying what specifically the city would offer. This internal candidate as the city considers a strategy to retain this staff member but an indication as to the value of the position being senior accountant versus the deputy finance director. The main difference in duties between the two positions are supervisory in nature. Currently the director of finance is responsible for leading or supervising all staff members within the department in light of the importance of that position the director of finance in order for that position to be effective as possible. I am supportive of creating this new deputy finance director position to allow some delegation of duties both in leading projects as well as overseeing staff to free up the director in order for him to accomplish other tasks that are more important in nature. Also at tonight's special finance and personnel committee a representative of CLA who is currently conducting an operational assessment of the finance department as well as a sort of a side review of the human resource department. The representative from CLA did identify their support for the creation of this position. The outcome of their full study will not be known until probably in November due to again the pending resignation of the or the resignation and potential strategy to retain the staff member it is I'm of the opinion that the city does not have cannot afford to wait for the results of that study in November nor even afford to wait for two weeks or three weeks for further consideration by this by this body. I guess with that if either director of HR human resources or the director of finance has additional comments to supplement my comments. Mr. Chair if you would be open to that certainly human resource arses director sandy rick good evening one of the questions I had is what is the potential cost for this our salary grades have a control point which is what's considered the 75th percentile of the market average and that is a person who comes in with a decent amount of experience and is ready to start the position with limited training. The control point of the current position of a senior accountant is 66,518 and the control point of a salary grade s which would be this new position is 83,449 so the difference is 16,931 between the two control points. Thank you finance director Marty Halverson. Thank you mayor so approximately two and a half weeks ago we did present to the finance and personnel committee an action plan to address what I would consider critical or urgent needs to resolve some of the struggles that we've seen over the past year and some of those are structural in nature. I find the policies procedures and overall efficiency and operations of the department at times not where they need to be. One of the key areas of accomplishing that growth is having the proper staff to be present and able to adjust to the needs. The city of Sheboygan is certainly looking at lots of exciting development over the next several years and in order for myself and my staff to be able to properly support the city's growing and economic needs this position as of deputy finance director I find as a critical need for the for the staff and the department as a whole. The ability to not only as as administrator Hoffland said to supervise the operations of the department but this the current individual and or an individual who would fill that role would be primarily tasked with some of the things that don't necessarily come with a senior accountant title and that is truly developing policies and procedures that can lead the department well into the future. So overall this this position is something that I would certainly look to the council to support in in nature of not only the timing of it with a current tendered resignation but also as we head into the as we're into the fourth quarter and head into the year end these are critical tasks that need to be accomplished before we close out our fiscal year. These are things that we certainly have on a long-term plan that was presented and as administrator Hoffland said it was asked to try to accelerate that and retaining staff is is one way to support that advancement of urgency to fueling the the energy and knowledge that's in the department to be able to sustain a a shorter term time frame. Thank you. Administrator Hoffland. One item that I did not that I did not address was the context for the position as before you for consideration this evening. This position the current position of the senior accountant was created and filled earlier this year as I mentioned earlier in my comments in light of the responsibilities of the director of finance and the goals as being established by the finance and committee finance and personnel committee relating to an action plan what's before you is really an elevation of that senior account position to a deputy finance director position. This deputy finance director position actually was in our table of organization as short as two years ago. An employee within that position left our employment and ultimately the decision was to temporarily or decision was not to have that position. So this position again is not new to the city of Sheboygan. We as a result of having the senior account position it has become clear to city management that it is not of a level or a caliber that is going to be is not of a caliber that is going to allow us to be successful in timely handling and implementing the the action to plan as a result what what we are here tonight to ask of you is to consider recreating that deputy finance director position authorizing the change of our ordinance and ultimately for this city staff to be able to initiate recruitment if in fact the existing senior accountant does not does not accept the duties as identified in this deputy finance director position. Thank you. Now we'll move on to Alderperson Sorenson. Thank you Mr. Mayor and I appreciate the department heads for giving a summary. You guys shaved off a few questions from me. I know that this was just kind of reviewed by the finance and personnel committee right before the meeting. I know it was for discussion only but was there a general sense from the committee members of a recommendation at all? I don't know who maybe that's for a chairwoman Don here to answer so that would be one of my first questions and then there I know that we mentioned that CAO was doing a review or a study of the finance department. Were there any concerns that they might have that that we might be doing this a little too early adding additional responsibilities to the job description in itself and then if there was any input from other members of the finance department and how this would supplement or assist other staff members in that department and how that would help them with productivity. So whoever wants to answer those questions feel free to take them. Well Todd Wolfe is next Todd. Thank you Mayor. I guess I can touch on a few since I'm a committee member of the finance and personnel and then Chair Donna you can always jump in and correct me if I'm wrong. A couple of things I want to first point out is this is really a two-part really we've had this position in the past and we've had these responsibilities in the past during hiring and changing of the guard if you want to call it that the position was kind of put into a dormant position so really what in my opinion what I see happening is that we're asking to reinstate the title and the responsibilities that go accordingly and obviously the the wage that goes with it and the sense of urgency which is part two is why we're asking to suspend it is basically because we have a value a valued employee that we don't want to lose and we all know how hard it is to find valuable employees and we also know how hard it is especially in today's marketplace to be competitive so when when I look at this the two parts really the sense of urgency is something that I think any department should be looking at at any time as we continue to grow and change finance and HR are two of the key areas that keep the you know keep the bus running if you want to call it that the wheels on the bus keep going we need a good engine we need we're not adding people we're kind of arranging their responsibilities and their accountabilities and this is something that CLA supported and I support it and we know that there's a lot of opportunity for improvement within that department and I look forward to seeing what we're going to find in as HR is being reviewed so I hope that answers your question we did have some discussion about it in open talk with limited time and I'd say the the overall opinion was positive there was some concern that we were moving too fast on this change of position thank you for those comments all their person Donahue thank you mayor and I would echo what Alder Wolf has said I'm certainly in favor of this and I'm in favor of moving forward quite quickly you know when large and complex departments have a transition in leadership some transitions go very smoothly and some don't and I think it's fair to say in all honesty that this transition has been bumpier we knew that there would be a lot of challenges with the new person coming in after all of the years that that our former finance director devoted to the city but the the challenges appear to be really quite significant secondly we're moving into a more not I want to say modern era but the the responsibilities the accountabilities of a finance department any municipal department these days have grown and when those responsibilities grow so does the complexity I am persuaded on this because we have this position for for a number of years and we tried it without that position and it really frankly just hasn't worked very well and I think that we need to start taking some really concrete steps to move forward as fast as we can if a current employee stays fine I don't care about that as much as the fact that we do need to just structurally make this change and and move forward so I need I know it sounds you know it seems a little little quick a little precipitous but I think overall that this is going to be with a very minor adjustment for for the cost is really going to move us forward as quickly as we can frankly this really just has to happen as far as I'm concerned thank you for those comments Alderperson Feldy thank you mayor I did attend the meeting and Alderperson Sorenson you asked about input and other than Marty the staff was not allowed to or were told that we didn't time constraint they couldn't talk so we didn't have enough input from the staff in that department at least personally I don't feel that I had enough input and one of my concerns is and I voiced it at the at the meeting is constituents because this is a four-month employee that is that that they're going to re-offer the position to with more money that's hard to justify to the voters when some people do not make a lot of money they're working two and three jobs trying to make ends meet so it may seem like a small amount to some of us but to other people that's a huge amount and I did ask about longevity in that department and there are some people that have been there for quite a while it's complicated you had to attend the meeting to to hear all the conversation but I and I know there's time restraint but I still cannot support I cannot support offering more money to the person that's leaving the position thank you for those comments older person Donahue just to follow up and I really appreciate what older Feldy had to say just to make it clear we did have significant staff input our district excuse me our city administrator the head of our human resources department who has drafted the new job description went through it and explained it to us also explained that the potential financial impact and and also of course our director of of the finance department on the basis that all three of these department heads feel that this is quite a critical matter I am comfortable proceeding I do know that the money is an issue when we have highly educated and highly trained staff we do pay them more and I think that is frankly the way the way that probably is always going to be my concern is that if we don't take this step what will it in fact cost the city if we find that there are continuing problems with reconciliation of records lack of information sharing and teamwork development cross-training which has not happened it as far as I am concerned so I think while I certainly understand those concerns I think we need to take a big picture view of this and I think that the financial health of the city is really while it's not at risk it may be if we don't take some steps to really ensure that we work as efficiently and as competently and as quickly as possible so rather than stretch this out and debate this for months and then take some months to find a new employee to fill the position if we were to if we were to authorize it I I know it seems fast but I think that this is the way that we need to proceed and I will expect reports from our finance director if we do do this and we move on a pace as to how it's going and also from our our city administrator because I think this is the critical stuff I mean if finance doesn't work nothing works and we just need to kind of keep that in mind thank you for those comments finance director Halverson thank you mayor I believe certainly I'm giving feedback to older such as on all of the older's comments I certainly appreciate all the feedback both positive and and with concerns certainly that's the only way we make proper decisions and I certainly take that to heart I certainly look at this position as much as the urgency could be viewed as are we trying to use it to retain a position or a person in a certain position I think it goes deeper than that and it certainly is something that I have to look at from a timing standpoint if we look at what it would take to change the senior accountant position into a deputy director through CLA's operational assessment which we believe it'll come roughly the middle of November if we wait till after that to take action to create a new position and go through all the multiple meetings and discussions through all of that time period we would be operating down one senior staff and that could be very detrimental to a department that's going through transition especially at a year end where audit findings were one of the items on our action plan that we're trying to address those action plan items and findings by the audit last year are truly just symptomatic of a lot of the things that we've addressed and have as a concern so I think whether we truly do retain the staff or not there's urgency to getting this job posted so that we can fill it with someone who has the caliber who will come in and continue with the progress we have made through the action plan so hopefully Elder Sorenson I hope that those answer your question thank you very much is there any other discussion seeing none will the clerk please call the roll eight eyes one no motion passes item 8.2 will be referred to the finance and personnel committee and under other matters I'll turn it over to city attorney Charles Adams item 9.1 is an RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31 2019 June 30 2020 and June 30 2021 that'll be referred to the licensing hearings and public safety committee next we have a contemplated closed session Alderperson Wolfe thank you mayor I make a motion to convene in closed session under the exemption provided in section 19.8 sub 1 sub e Wisconsin stats were to wear competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session related to the pot to a possible development incentive for the project known as oscar on the vandervaart property on the second thank you for that motion in support will the clerk please call the roll for closed session 19.8 sub 1 sub e Wisconsin stats were to wear competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session related to the nine eyes motion passes for our viewers at home this will end our transmission for this evening council will be adjourning in closed session and thank you for your time tonight if anybody wants to stay here we will have a committee of the whole meeting following this the council will be adjourning to a room on the side here and you're welcome to stay here in the council chambers until that other meeting is convene we'll take a three minute recess and reconvene