 through so many iterations over the course of time. It's a question of, I don't know. It's a neurotic UI person. I think that must be doing this. Yeah, looks good. All right, we're good. Cool, so Mike, let's switch back over to the kickoff screen, to the agenda. And I'm still seeing a Udacity page. Awesome, okay, all right. I think we're ready to go. All right, well, thanks, everyone. Let's get started. It's just a little bit after the top of the hour. Thanks all for joining me, joining us. I'm gonna be very brief in basically introducing Mike McCoy as our new HC SIG chair to the organization. We, thanks for everyone for your involvement in the election. The election came and went a couple of weeks ago. And thanks everyone for your involvement. It was a good opportunity to help sort of get, set the guidance for the organization going forward. And Mike, I think he'll be doing a great job in sort of coming up with some new ideas of his own to put some spin to this great membership. And so I'm gonna just sort of settle over, fade back into the background here and hand over to Mike. Mike, oh, and you're muted. You're muted, Mike. Of course I'm muted, so there you go. Thank you very much for the guidance and everything this past week and carrying this group for two years. It's very much appreciated and this wouldn't happen without you. So I thank you very much for that. Everyone, welcome to the healthcare special interest group here and in the hyper alleged community. My name's Mike McCoy. A little bit of an introduction for myself for those that may not be aware of myself. I am currently the director of platform integration and technical partnerships at consensus health. And I'm also a consensus health of the spin-off of Consensus AG, the parent company that those that are familiar with the blockchain space may be pretty familiar with. I'm also an adjunct professor at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital here in Philadelphia, where I'm part of the Institute of Emerging Health Professions. We teach a course every year that highlights something new within the health peer life science space. Particularly it's mostly based for clinicians, administrative folks, as well as those in business strategy. And this year of course is going to highlight more data science components as last year was more blockchain. This year is going to highlight more AI machine learning and some aspects of privacy enhancing technology that are part of cryptography and the broader blockchain space. Before we get started, I want everyone to give introductions themselves but per our rules here within the hyper ledger special interest group, we want to address the antitrust policy. Produce means that you don't want to be able to share industry secrets here. We want to be able to keep everything pretty open within the group and anything that could be potentially compromising shared in this group, please do not share that. And we'd like to be able to prohibit any Linux foundation meetings from potentially being any part of antitrust. Don't share anything you wouldn't want the broader group to see. All right. And now for those that are new to the group, please introduce yourselves. I believe we have Leah. Leah's a new addition to the group. Hi, Mike. Thanks to everyone for allowing me the opportunity to be here. I'm Australian. I live in Paris. I'm CEO founder of QuaFactor which is a blockchain based traceability platform that looks at medication supply chains, medical devices and healthcare. So personalized health records on blockchain. My background is as a clinical pharmacist in Australia and then I went into digital technologies, robotics and in the last two years I've been working on blockchain projects including a pilot for medication delivery to Venezuela and most recently on a personalized health record for patients, a women's health program in Malaysia. So yeah, thanks. Awesome. Great introduction, Leah. And then if we could have Ravathi. I am not familiar with you but you may be a concert member of the group. So if you could introduce yourself for my being. Hey, sure. Congrats, first of all, Mike. And my name's Ravathi but you can also call me Rai or Rai if that's easier. I work across four continents but right now at least during lockdown I'm in India. And amongst the various heads I wear I am on the board of PDP Foundation Network which is research for PDP based technologies, principles. I'm also a member of Collab Corporate which is a transnational tech cooperative. I'm a member of Lucia which focus on collaborative economy as an intersection of several of these heads. There are a few projects that I'm a part of which looks at healthcare data ownership and data cooperatives and deriving benefit from that for elders seeing as they are especially vulnerable to health emergencies like the pandemic and the data insights that are really beneficial there. I'm also a huge proponent of open source and I try to make to these group meetings more often but unfortunately I don't make it as often as I would like to which may be true for a lot of us so I'm really excited to be here and nice to meet you all. Awesome, thank you very much for sharing that. Mehul, if you could give an introduction for the group as you may not be, you may be a new member to Hyperledger healthcare special interest group but you are part of the Hyperledger community so please share your introduction. Well, thank you, Mike. Mehul Shah with Infinity Services. We are a Hyperledger dev shop doing a fair amount of work in the supply chain space and looking to find, you know how I can contribute my skillset to the healthcare space because I see so many good use cases coming up and I want to expand my horizons as well. So I'm here for two purposes. First off is, you know, learn more about how the healthcare space is contemplating the use of blockchain. Specifically I'm interested in how Hyperledger fabric and Hyperledger indie can be leveraged. And on the flip side, you know being technically proficient, I want to work towards more than just conversations, you know, I want to actually get involved with, you know, actually creating POCs and things along those lines and would be very interested in talking with folks who would like to take that idea forward. So yeah, thank you, Mike. Awesome, thank you for that. And also if we can give an introduction, everyone probably knows this individual but Brian Bellendorf, if you could say a few words in your experience with the Hyperledger special interest group as well. Good morning, everyone. Brian Bellendorf, Executive Director of Hyperledger. And first off, thank you, Rich, for the handoff to Mike. Congrats. And really thank you for all of your leadership as the Chair of the Healthcare SIG. And congrats, Mike, for leading this from now forward. And the Healthcare SIG was actually the very first special interest group that was launched. Partly, I had spent a year working for the Department of Health and Human Services about 10 years ago on open source software as a way to accelerate health information exchange and walked away with that. Recognizing that one of the biggest issues was trust between individuals and healthcare organizations and between healthcare organizations themselves. And so when I jumped into the blockchain space realized that that was going to be a really big opportunity for this technology. And so I've been really happy to see this healthcare SIG be a real activity, a locus of activity around this domain and help spark a lot of great conversations and projects. So again, just really happy to see the peaceful transition of power. And I really always excited about what this SIG can do. Awesome. Thank you. And anyone else, feel free if you would like to provide an introduction for new members. I know Guillermo's been here a bunch, Alicia's been here before. So Erica is our vice chair as well. So if anyone wants to provide an introduction, please. Mike, I don't know if there's a right place, but if I can add one more thought, please. Sure. So just last week I joined this organization called Fight Pandemics. And I'm going to be contributing my expertise to the blockchain use cases. Yeah. That particular volunteer organization is contemplating. Yeah. So we can, we'll get into that later in the general meeting as we go over potential opportunities and as well as we have this COVID-19 virus pandemic support section of the meeting as well. So if we could just get into that more details later on, I think that'll be part of the conversation. Yeah, that sounds good. Thanks, Mike. Cool. Awesome. Hi, Mike. This is Guillermo speaking. Good morning, everyone. Thank you. And it's a pleasure to know that you are now leading the SIG. Congratulations for that. I believe that you're going to do a great job. And let me tell you a little bit about my background information of what I'm doing here in Mexico. I'm part of the, I have a company, a small company, but it's a very niche company. I have a e-mail record that came from California and also I have another agreement with a Brazilian company who is doing some kind of integration with the blockchain in the healthcare system in Brazil. Now we are trying to do the same thing in Mexico because I'm part of the committee of an organization that the name is Amity. I'm part of the group that helped to the government with new technologies and how we can use that technologies to help into the healthcare system either from the public sector to the private sector. So I'm glad to know that you have that experience because I believe that in our developing countries this will be a great asset to us. So thank you very much and congratulations again. And of course, Rich, congratulations also for letting us to know about the SIG in the past years. Thank you. Awesome, thank you very much for that. And one of the missions I want for this group is for in the future for us to have working groups that are direct and pertinent and can actually be implemented for industry. And a lot of that will incorporate some design sessions for open-source collaboration and then helping out the subgroups. In particular, our patient member subgroup, our payer subgroups and our healthcare interoperability subgroup have more direct resources, scope and a lot of other things associated with that. So we hope to create more collaborative working groups out of this for sure. Sounds terrific. Thank you. Thanks Guillermo. So we went through introductions. Thank you everyone for all that. As Rich posted in our chat, if you want to consider adding your contact information, if you are new, please add it to the HCSIG membership directory here so that others that are part of the SIG, if they want to be able to look you up or find people of similar interest, they could be able to do so here. So anyone new, you could be able to check out that membership directory. Community announcements, do you have any announcements, anyone that you'd like to share or that were shared in the rocket channel this past week? Anybody, please. This is Guillermo again. I'm not sure if this is important for you because we are going to have a Congress in Mexico with this organization that will be held in the 26th and 27th August, 26th, 27th. Of course it's in Spanish. It will be online and I can share that information just if somebody... Could you share that in the chat please? Do you have a link or detailed information? And also you can email me too. I'll put my email in the chat. For everything hyper ledger or relevant, I'm gonna probably use my personal email so that it doesn't conflict with work things. So you can email me just at this one. Let's email right here. So feel free. Okay. Okay, got it. Tomorrow it will be announced. So as soon as I have the link, I will share with you guys. Thank you. Thank you Mike. Awesome, thank you very much. And I'll put that in email to the group and feel free to add it in rocket chat as well. Sure. Thank you. Any other announcements from anyone that is part of the group here? Yeah, Mike, one suggestion. Yes, please. So I'm looking at the member directory and would you be averse to having me like go in and sort the list alphabetically? Sure. Have you organized it? I haven't been able to organize it yet, but yes, you could do that. Feel free to, it would probably be best to do that. All right, thank you. Awesome, cool. We'll thank you all for that. Now we're going to our strategic, or sorry, special interest group subgroup updates. We do not currently have any members of the subgroup that are a part of the meeting currently to give an update, but Rich, do you have any prior knowledge or updates that you heard from either Denise, Ravish or Steven? Sure, yeah. So Dennis is, he's out traveling. I believe we just got a little note from him that he's in Istanbul for the next couple of weeks. So he's on vacation or holiday. As far as the patient subgroup goes, as lead, they've been working on an e-consent solution. It's actually a very successful product that they're working on. They have some engagement back in Europe with some of the larger pharma organizations. This solution is actually done in parallel. So they're using both fabric and sawtooth to demonstrate functionality for this product using both platforms. And in fact, one of the things that we probably want to reprise, Mike, would be to have them provide an update on some of the work that they've done and specifically a discussion around the value add of either fabric or sawtooth. Cause it's a rare thing when we have domain expertise in both. So we're very closely together. So that I think might be something to consider going forward. Their team meets every other week. And so feel free to sort of loop in with Dennis and his team. I believe they meet every other Friday, if I recall. And it's, I should want to say nine o'clock Pacific. I think it's one, yeah. Either nine or one o'clock Eastern. Yes, I think it's, let me double check that. So, every other Friday at seven Pacific, which would be 10 Eastern, unless that's changed. So let's see, for payer subgroup, that's Ravish's team. And they are working on sort of an X generation pharmacy product. They have their product in hyperledger labs. They're actively developing against it. A couple of months ago or a couple of meetings ago, they did a presentation on that product. It's been so far pretty well designed. It's in active development. They're always, of course, looking for additional engagement from membership. So that would be a great opportunity to get involved in their group. They also meet every other week. And so you may want to contact Ravish regarding that. And then our most recent, the healthcare interoperably subgroup. Oftentimes referred to as his is run by Steven. And that's a really cool subgroup. They are very technical. They're using fabric to develop a semantic interoperably platform. And of course, semantics being slightly different from syntactic understandings. And so semantics, that's a real tough nut to crack. And so they're really focused on that use case. I believe it's immunization, specifically that they're looking at. And he meets with his group again every two weeks. I believe it's on a Monday morning. So it might be worth looping in with Steven if you have a very specific technical sort of background as it relates to interoperability in the healthcare space. So I think that's sort of where we stand with our updates. Yeah, usually we'll have a representation here for the subgroup teams, either the leads themselves or the proxies. But I think I know a couple of folks are certainly on holiday. And so that's sort of where we stand. Thank you for the update. Next up, we're gonna go into the ad hoc team updates. So the Wiki redesign team, I don't think we have anyone part of that at the moment. Rich, do you have any kind of background for that group? Yeah, this is just an ongoing request. So for anyone that has an interest or expertise with Confluent specifically, we're always looking for folks to help out. This really reflects some of the work that we wanna do internally for the SIG itself, as well as some broader design ideas or concepts as they relate to all SIGs with the intent of allowing members to sort of move a little bit easier between special interest groups with sort of a common understanding of usability. So it's always, this is just gonna be an ongoing thing, I think, and really it's a driver for looking for really good, very smart folks in this space as it relates to design and interface experience. And so yeah, if you have deep expertise with Confluence, we'd love to get you involved. It'd be a great way to sort of help drive, really facilitate engagement with new membership particularly. Does anyone here on the current chat have experience with Confluence or interface design that would like to have a session next week to discuss this or are connected with anyone as well? I've used it, Mike, but I don't have any experience with the design and the backing design, but I've used it and it's pretty effective to use between managing it for like a contribution. Okay, well we can message separately about that as well. So thank you, thank you for that, Leah. Awesome, let's go to an update with our friend Erica and about the use case development team and what's going on with that. Yeah, thanks, Mike. So this group, Rich has kind of gone over this before, was originally created for him to kind of give a high level overview of some of the practical applications of Hyperledger in some healthcare use cases on a really high level. And I'm actively working on the use case that I've gotten a little feedback on from another member. So my plan for the group is to complete as much as I can of the supply chain, drug supply chain use case that I'm working on. And this is written on a Hyperledger template and we're gonna add some visual graphics to it. There's three other use cases, provider credentialing, use cases involved in the parent industry and medical records that I'm actively looking for people to work on. We haven't had a meeting in a while because I really wanted to get my use case kind of off the ground and present it. So I will be scheduling a meeting and I'll be reaching out to the group to see who wants to be a part of it. Dennis has sat in on the meetings before. A couple of the other members in the group have fallen off. So I'll kind of be trying to revamp it here shortly. All right, thank you very much for that update, Erica. I don't mean to go back into the past, but we do have Stephen Elliott who has joined us here. Stephen, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Awesome, Mike. Welcome. So I don't often make these meetings. They're actually between meetings who have a hard stop in about five minutes. But I did want to say thanks so much, Rich, for everything you've done for the Hyperledger Fabric special interest healthcare group. Without your efforts, we would be, we probably wouldn't have a group. Thanks, Stephen, I appreciate it. And your wisdom has been very, very helpful in pushing things through. I appreciate it, thank you. And obviously this group exists by virtue of all the members that are involved in it. So it's really about orchestration and that's really about it. It's letting the good people do their job. Yeah, it's terribly difficult to find the time to do this on a consistent basis, but your consistency has been a real goal for me to try to emulate, so thanks so much. Thank you. And welcome aboard, Mike. I don't think we've ever met, but nice to virtually meet you. Where are you at right now? I'm based in the great city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm on the East, I'm in the West Coast in San Diego, but my job is really sort of on the East Coast, which is why I'm so busy at this hour. Yeah, that's, by the way, I love San Diego, been there many a times. We have a couple of members of the consensus health team that lived there as well. So welcome to our group. I guess for the next three minutes, if you have any updates in regards to the healthcare interoperability subgroup that you could give to some of our members? So we've been meeting reasonably consistently over the last several months. At the moment right now, a snapshot of where we are is really deciding how to implement a policy of consensus called proof of interoperability. Basically drilling through the FHIR model down into terminologies and ontologies such as SNOMED and Moink are its norm for some standard terminologies that we can use to validate data. So we can then say, well, everybody in the consortium now agrees that sex should be represented by some kind of undisputable mean of sex. There could be other interpretations of sex, but so that's really sort of our definition of what semantic interoperability really is, is taking that definition of sex, which is not really a use case. The use case is immunization, but I think sex sort of brings out the different interpretations that you can have and why it's so important to be able to say that the data is semantically interoperable. Anyway, we're sort of working through that at the moment. I also have an opportunity to do this with AWS. They have a hyperledger fabric stand up there. Initially I looked at it and it was fairly good, but then I looked at it a little closer and it was very expensive. But then they gave me a $300 grant, which is actually going to defer some of that cost. I'll go back and take a look and see if the price makes any difference. But I would like to do with AWS. I'm an AWS associate architect. So it makes sense for me to be able to do something like that. And I think it's good for hyperledger to be able to take some kind of a commercial grade fabric implementations if we can wrangle that and put things like proof of interoperability there. So I gotta go. I really do, I apologize for not making more of these meetings, but I did want to take this opportunity to say thank you very much, Rich. Thank you, Stephen, appreciate it. Hopefully I'll be able to make the next one. Are we gonna be meeting at the same time, Mike? So that's another, I'm going to send out a survey out to the group I've mentioned towards the end. But I wanna try and see if maybe, I know Fridays for some people have given me feedback in messaging that Fridays are a bit difficult for them to be able to come on to a call. So I wanna send out a survey and try and get a one, two, and three time slots that are best for the group as well as potentially, I've talked to David Boswell, who's the hyperledger community lead about having an Asian friendly time and then a like a Western Eastern friendly time pretty much for the world. So we are in talks of trying to coordinate that and yeah, survey will be sent out early next week. Okay, well, I gotta jump. Thanks so much, everybody. How about Stephen, before you drop, do you have a way of coordinating this interoperability project? I'd love to engage with you. I was involved in this conversation about gender and biological sex in nature for years as a clinical geneticist. I really gotta drop, there's a special interest page rich can point to the right direction. You can always get in contact with me by email. Thanks so much, bye everybody. Have a great Friday. Thank you, me too. So that was for the interoperability subgroup in our special interest group? Yeah, or is that in the semantic? No, no, it's through the SIG. Let me grab the URL, hold on just a sec. Do you have his email rich? Could you potentially add it in the chat? I'm not too comfortable about that, but I'll double check. I'll loop back around with Stephen on that. Thank you. So the link, yeah, link is in chat. Okay, cool. Because I struggled with this, I think, because semantic interoperability is so important. And we've struggled with this in the HL7 clinical genomics working group. And mostly about three, maybe five years ago when this whole biological gender sort of actually started popping up and how to represent that. And we were front and center of actually how to model this. Well, good. And I'm just looking ahead here. So I'm gonna copy over his email because it is public on the page. So I just sent that over. So, yeah, Jonathan, it would be great to sort of sync with Stephen on that. Like I said, one of the great things about that particular subgroup is Stephen's driving and he's a really bright guy. It tends to be very technical. And there's a lot of sort of meat on the bones and it's really good to sort of dig into it. So interoperability, if that happens to be something of an interest to you or you have some expertise around it, that would be great. Some of my background is interop as well. And so it's really cool to see that Stephen's taking the hard road on this, which is semantic interoperability, which is really tough stuff and moving forward. So yeah, good to know that you have some interest in that. Awesome, thank you. So for unfinished business here, we have since early March, that Hyperledger special interest group has focused on collaborative identity, identifying COVID-19 virus pandemic solutions, especially thanks to everyone that was able to continue with that. This is mentioned by Rich two weeks ago, but we wanna continue to thank everyone who has been very involved in trying to collaborate more so within the Hyperledger community to help as an aid for COVID-19 virus pandemic support. Here are some funding programs that have been posted since July, that are updated about a month ago. I'm sure we could have another update on there as well. I have to update this Wiki personally moving forward. So that will be coming in the next two weeks. Any other, does anyone wanna mention any details or any other funding resources they are aware of for COVID-19 related support in relation to blockchain technology? Yeah, just real quickly. So those updates are really reflective of the sites themselves. And so if we see any updates to the sites, those could push forward. So you'll see that some of those sites really don't update too often, which is probably a good indication that not a whole lot of attention that's been paid to it by those organizations. So generally speaking, if they're regularly updated, they tend to be a fresher opportunity or more engaged opportunity. Awesome. All right, and then moving on from the COVID-19 funding opportunity. It's very nice. Mike, I've just put a link to Creative Destruction Live. They've got a program for funding as well or workshops for, I think they use the Libra fabric. And so that's a grant that's available as well. Or a program. So they use Facebook Libra, you said? Yeah, I think theirs is based on, yeah, but anyway, sorry. Probably not appropriate, but anyway. No, it's appropriate. Yeah, just to know what's going on out there. That's interesting stuff. Definitely take that for a note. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. So the new business within the group is pretty straightforward, I would say. So I'm joining now as the chair of the group trying to do a great job in filling rich issues. And I think mostly I want to try and fill the consistency that he's being able to bring to this group. That's the biggest thing with any meetup group, any working group is being able to consistently have beneficial ideas, thoughts, and generating a solution. So I hope to do half of what he's been able to do for this group in the past two years. Some thoughts though, in ways I would like to see the SIG progress is, it's very beneficial because from the SIG perspective, we have a wider lens and the subgroups were able to go down to the weeds and be able to work on specific problems of industry. One, I think additions of a couple subgroups may be beneficial, especially those incorporating other groups within Hyperledger, as I believe Hyperledger Avalon and Trusted Compute Framework are going to be another subgroup that can add into the healthcare into a subgroup of privacy enhancing technology or decentralized AI. Those types of concepts and frameworks that I think we're getting a need from industry and adding aspects of federated learning working groups within the healthcare SIG can be truly beneficial as well. I also believe that we could have another, we would like to expand more on the use case development subgroup that Erica is leading with us. I think that is very key for clinicians and administrative and people that are working in the trenches to understand how this technology can truly benefit their everyday aspects of work. So I wanna be able to raise up those working groups for sure, as we already have some pretty successful ones. I wanna give more options for people to attend this type of meeting, and maybe we'd have one time a month where it would be split to people that are based more in EMEA and Asia, and then another that would be based for more in the Americas and potentially parts of Europe as well. So just more flexibility in the scheduling of how we can be able to conduct these meetings will be beneficial, along with specific POCs and pilots that could be demonstrated here that are more mature in their concept, rather than being early stage. And yeah, just connecting more of the broader industry together. Cause at some point in the process, someone's using a hyperledger tool set or technology within their stack, whether it's in the areas, whether it's Fabric, Brazil, Saltoos, from the DLT perspective. I wanna also help highlight some of the other technologies for people of healthcare and life science and how they can be able to benefit from using these other tools as well. And those are just a couple of initial thoughts, but that's enough for me. I wanna hear from others that have been part of the group for a while or that are just new to the group, how they believe this type of forum could be of benefit to them most. And please don't be shy, anyone can speak up. Well, I think, so Mike, you know, my interests as far as I'm very deeply technical and actually I love to code and but I think it's, this is a higher level group and I think we, probably the intersection of the healthcare, the technology and the governance is a great sort of mix of touching on each of those. And cause I think that I'm very well versed in the technology, but I think I'm still struggling with governance and trust models and certain examples of like the COVID-19 and emerging applications of like AI, smart agents to actually do create insights or adore credentials, et cetera for healthcare. And this is an ongoing discussion. I know I'm on the ABMS American Board of Medical Specialties, AI subgroup that we're actually talking about how we implement AI into clinical practice. But this is also gonna be a topic conversation this fall in the UN meeting and if it's gonna happen in September about this intersection of healthcare, technology and governance and how we can combine all three of those into solutions for things such as COVID. So more of, you would say standards, governance, experts that could help make these things clear to those that are technical, what did you say? Yeah, I think it's bubbling up some of the technology. I mean, certainly a lot of this is for decentral identifiers, verifiable credentials, but how it intersects with existing technology with like X509 certificates or the direct trust framework, which is with the trust model for HL7 and or OpenID Connect or the heart protocol, which is an extension of the OpenID Connect. And so I think those are just like boilerplate sort of technology, but I think there is a lot of discussion about the applications of those technologies, the appropriate application of those technologies and how we govern them and how it impacts healthcare and impacts healthcare delivery models. And so I think there is, that I think is just fodder for great discussion for where this technology can get us and what's the limitations of this technology or what's the ethical moral dilemma that actually this technology brings. I mean, that was the great article coming out of Harvard about the technological divide of the have versus the have not of actually if you do have a immunity passport, what does that mean? And what does it prevent people who don't have an immunity passport from traveling from just the biasing people that actually like, they aren't now second-class citizens and don't have that the same rights as people who actually who do have an immunity passport, if that ever becomes a thing. 100%. Those type of challenges are something we're all trying to solve and I think having more discussion and even kind of design sessions within subgroup support too, like the interoperability support subgroup seems like that would be a great avenue to start with as well. And maybe having a broader session here to initiate that idea and thinking and then go to the subgroup to then dive in a little bit deeper as well. So I definitely think those would be. Yeah, and I think that at least like, having noticed that discussion about where those touchpoints are and then reach out to the broader community. And I know Brian's involved with the Lenox for Public Health Initiative and there's other trying to create policies or even like the trust over IP network. Like what is that? Like what are the problems that they trying to solve and can we like wrap this up into a nice package and explain or articulate and work through these problems and actually go to the broader community and to other organizations and to have these discussions and how we can actually work collaboratively to solve these hard problems that are facing us immediately. We're all being affected. Does anyone have any points of comment to that or something separate to add? I want to plus one sort of the importance of just the intersection of healthcare ethics and AI and their applications, how that affects the digital divide, the socioeconomic divide. All of these are important questions, I think. I am personally a huge sort of digital equity advocate and I know some of my peers have been really distraught while COVID has been great and we've been monumental leaps in adoption of blockchain in mainstream. It has also taken the world several decades backward in terms of data rights and digital rights. I think there are all sorts of interesting questions here and it would be lovely to explore that in the SIG. Also, looking at what we're talking about and connecting that with what you were mentioning before, Mike, something like this is sort of like a topic which maybe touches across the subgroups and you were talking about collaborative working groups and sort of promoting the different subgroups working together as well as seeing how that might play into the use case development group, for instance. I think all of these would be really lovely to explore and I would love to maybe hear more about your thoughts, other thoughts and maybe even Richard's sort of retro thoughts on how we can achieve this better and integrate topics like this into the regular functioning of the SIG and the subgroups perhaps. Absolutely, so I think, hold on. So I think this could be a very great collaborative effort with the social impact group within Hyperledger as well. There's been a couple of discussions I've been on going into their meetings of how we can help solve this problem but also help connect the dots in this as well. So I think cross-collaboration between others SIGs would be beneficial and then I'm sure we all have connections and resources that could touch upon these topics. I also, in a survey as well, I'm not also going to have the time, the requested time we can after the future but requested topics and topics of interest and use cases of interest. I'm going to send out to the group and what kind of discussions we would like to hear. So this will definitely be added and Dr. Holt's idea will be added as well but I want to get community to feel empowered to put in their thoughts because when we have these groups and gatherings not everyone may feel empowered to speak in front of everyone. There may be a bit shy but I think adding in the survey aspect too can help them feel more confident to be able to add in their thoughts of how we can be able to have these working groups be more effective too. Hey Mike, it's Erica. I just wanted to say I would love to have the group be more accessible to other clinicians like myself who might not have a background in technology but can provide a lot of input on like adoption of new technologies and really using the trenches and giving kind of a really different perspective on everything. I think it's really hard to get people like that to join the group because they are, we don't really have any background in it. So I just wanted to say that it would be nice to, I think the use case group is a great example of trying to bring more clinicians on just to give a really high level idea of what technology can do. And I'm trying to do that but I just wanted to say that it would be great to have more reach in that area as well. So, Erica, this is Alicia and you're right on point. You know, my background is healthcare and one of the reasons I was interested in was because Rich, when I met Rich in Cambia Grove, he actually invited me to this group because he thought I would be interested because even though my background is not technical, I have a lot of experience in different things from patient care to how things work from occupational health, from so many other different things, thinking from the patient standpoint, from the provider standpoint, and that sometimes what's a win-win for a patient is not the same thing for the physician, hospital, et cetera. So, I agree with Erica. It would be interesting to see and get the, you know, and I don't know if for you guys that are technical, find any advantages to that. No, that makes a lot of sense. First of all, technology can be cool and can be beneficial, but if no one's able to use it, it doesn't matter, you know. If we don't have the ability to let clinicians feel comfortable when they're using blockchain based systems or so on and so forth, it's not gonna be relevant and won't be used in the world. So, the more we can make the clear to people, the better. I know for one, I'm part of another group that's called ACT-IAC, they're based, it's pretty much like a DC government working group to help government industry understand newer concepts of technology like blockchain, AI, machine learning, et cetera. And within the ACT-IAC working group, I was part of a working group, I guess, within their subgroup that helped create a blockchain playbook that was relevant for federal industry, potentially creating a playbook for industry of healthcare and life science, or particularly, I guess, healthcare and clinicians, may be beneficial for us moving forward as well. That's something I think we could create a separate working group in sessions and make benefit to everyone as well. So, and also cross-event collaboration is great too. I know IEEE is looking to create a blockchain event based over in September and October, this year, and they've reached out to many of us in industry to kind of help support for the event. I know Eric is a part of it, as well as myself. And yeah, I think those type of events, now that they're all virtual, right, no one has an excuse other than, I just don't want to sit on my Zoom to come and see your thing, we could be able to help create more of those working sessions forward too. I just wanted to add something to Eric and Alicia's point as well, in terms of trying to do transformative digital change in healthcare, one of the things that I experienced, I guess, as working as a clinician transitioning into digital health technologies was bringing on board like the change management exercise of not just clinicians, but health executives, for example, and also regulators. And so, I'm wondering if we could also have these type of people in some of these working groups so we can get their pain points or difficulties with adoption of this technology as well, like where we need to bridge those gaps to get sort of that collaboration and top-down approach as well. Micah's point. Yeah, call for the exact changes to make the world go around. Yeah, exactly. I think there's so much resistance when it comes to those points around getting executives on board, and especially when they're looking at financial barriers to adopting this technology. So for them, especially when we were doing robotics and electronic health records, it was all about return on investment, and the cost savings and so on, not necessarily thinking about the patient care at the end point. But I really think if we can get those groups involved quite early, that would be great in terms of that change management and adoption. But I think that also, when you're talking about return on investment, that's one of the things that a lot of people in healthcare, they always think about, I'm going to see these three to five years, but with the technology changing so fast, I think it's becoming less and less time. And it's also trying to explain what they, I mean, really actually see the benefits. So when, for example, I remember people sitting in front of me trying to sell me a program or something like that, and it was like, okay, have you ever done this before? And I want to see the numbers. Where are the benefits? Because it's not an easy thing. I think a specific ask we could do is, okay, I'm a clinician and I want to be able to get a blockchain based system into my hospital or a network of hospitals. How do I do this? I think making IRB approved, like, I'm not IRB approved, but IRB guidelineed working groups and sessions. And I know for one, two people were all connected with and Wendy Charles and Sean Mannion in the healthcare blockchain space. They created actually a guideline of how a clinician could be able to use blockchain in their research and or a clinical from research and a clinical perspective as well. I think even expanding on those type of guidelines or making them specific to hyperledger tools and assets or under the hyperledger greenhouse, sorry, there's DLTs, there's tools as well. I think that could be a great benefit to industry too. And that could be a link that you could just send out to a person you're connected to in industry and say, hey, this could be a potential first step for you to understand what this technology is and why we believe it's beneficial. Those type of things would be of interest for me in the group to try and build out. What do you guys say? I was just gonna say there's so much literature out there like Wendy wrote a paper on compliance and things that healthcare organizations need to look at when implementing blockchain because there's so much that people don't know. I don't know, I think that there's a lot of literature out there that could be compiled and kind of reviewed when we look at this stuff. I know she has a great library, that you can dive back to, that we can look things up on as well. Wendy's Hyperledger Library is the most intense thing I've ever seen in my life. She shared with me about summer of last year and I couldn't believe how many articles and educational resources she had in that, it was fantastic. So I think definitely a hyperlink made in our wiki page could go into things that she has, obviously with her permission and you'd have that. Yeah, I can ask her, it's all blockchain too, it's not just hyperledger, it's all blockchains in general, but yeah, it's healthcare and blockchain basically. Yeah, I think there's probably like 1,000 articles in there but it makes it easy when it's in one library to search what your topic you're interested in and get information. So it's, yeah, it's a great resource. Also one thing to add that I wanted to mention is there's this group called Artifacts. I don't know if everyone has been connected in with them yet, but Artifacts, oh, there's one new library, it's here. Richard's put it in the chat, that's amazing. There's also a group called Artifacts that is working with myself, Sean Mannion, Robert Miller, who's part of our team at Consensus Health, but also the leader of Artifacts is Dave Cachalca who used to work at Elsevier and some others and there's a bunch of academics and research folks. Erica, you'd be great to add to this as well. We are curating every blockchain literature piece from late literature to academic literature to gray literature and trying to timeline that out from 2000, pretty much 16, 17 until now. We also wanna have it more matured when it's from 2018 when things were actually not ICO scam type of solutions to now as well. And I think that could be a good resource to add to this Wiki page and then have people from the community add in their insights and thoughts as well. So man, I need to get on some surveys. I need to get some things going out for everyone to see. So this is good stuff for me. Would that type of additional working group or knowledge creation be a benefit to the group? I mean, I'm gonna say yes, just cause that's my background. That's what I do for work now for IBM. So yeah, I mean, definitely I think that evidence is gonna drive a lot of this stuff when you're trying to present it with the organizations you need to have evidence, you need to have not just a cost analysis but actual, is this going to improve? How is this going to be better than what we have now? And I think that's the way that we need to present it. Absolutely. I think this is, this is Alicia and one of the other things that I think about is actually seeing how some models have been applied and that they work. Like I was thinking, you know, I don't know if I'm pretty sure you're all familiar, how Estonia I think is one of the most advanced technological countries. They actually are using all of this. It's, it's an amazing, you know, so I'm wondering also seeing things that or reviewing things that actually have been applied on work. And also to add to that point, Alicia, at the moment the IMD business school in Switzerland is working on use cases in healthcare and they've actually, they're using my company as a bit of a platform to write about how a startup company goes in terms of exploring the industry and looking at revenue models and so on for this, for healthcare and blockchain. So they've got the professor overseeing it. So it's going to be, they're very interested in developments in this space as well. Quite advanced in Switzerland. This is great. This is great stuff guys. And we have two minutes left, so I don't want to burden us by putting an end. Rich, if you could, we have a speaker coming up. Is that on the 21st or is that on the 27th they said that they'd be able to present more of us? So that'll be our next scheduled meeting, which is two weeks from today. Awesome. So on 821, we have a new speaker coming on. I'm not as familiar with them. So Rich, if you can give an overview of their presentation for the group. Yeah. If you want to just click on the 821 link there, that'll, the social media card is there. And it's really, it's, St. Gitz is going to be presenting. Just go to, yeah, right there. You got it. So their team is going to be presenting on their blockchain solution in healthcare. This is a reschedule. We were hoping to have them this week. And they ended up, I think they ended up with an issue with, I think the team was taking their exams this week. So we had a reschedule for that. But basically, yeah, we'll have them in two weeks. It'll be a great presentation on their product medical chain, which is a blockchain solution in the healthcare space. So it'll be great. Awesome. Thank you very much. And hey, lots of great things to work off of and surveys to be added so that people can get, receive their feedback into everything. Everyone, thank you very much for the time. The recording will be added into the Hyperledger 8, the healthcare sig wiki here. And I appreciate the time. If you guys have any other questions or want to ping me separately, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn messaging and as well as all my email that I sent out earlier into the chat too. So thank you all for the time. And hey, we'll see you on the 21st. Thank you everybody. Great job, Mike. Take care. Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Mike. Bye. Thank you all. Thank you. Bye.