 everybody to another episode of The Nonprofit Show. We are super excited to welcome back Kay McDonald, founder and CEO of Charity Charms. Kay, I'm going to take you back in the time machine. You are one of our very first guests. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. What an honor. Well, you know, it's an honor for me that I knew you and I had your phone number because everything was shut down and that I could call you up and you were so gracious to spend some time with us. You know, it's really been interesting because now we're marching towards our 600th episode. Wow. And in the beginning, when we contacted you, I was like, this is just, you know, a couple of weeks to get us through this hump because we'll be back to normal in no time. And things have changed and that's why I want to really delve into this with you and learn about what you're seeing and what you've seen through this as we move into this next really busy season for the nonprofit sector. So we're excited to talk to you about new ways to inspire your volunteer and committee members. Before we get going on that, I want to make sure that I reintroduce myself. I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. My interpret co-host, Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd, is traveling today so she won't be on. With us, I get Kay McDonald all to myself. And we would not be here without the largesse and the continued support of our sponsors, Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, and staffing boutique. Thank you to each and every one of these amazing companies that serve the nonprofit sector. I also want to remind everybody that you can find all of our nearly 600 episodes on Roku, YouTube TV, Amazon Fire TV, and Vimeo. And if you have a smart remote, you can actually speak into it and say the nonprofit show and we will come up. As Jared Ransom says, we're just so, so close to actually appearing on your sofa with you in hologram form. So be ready. That would be horrible. And then of course, we've now pushed this content into our new podcast format. So we've only been doing it for a couple of months thanks to our executive producer Kevin Pace for getting us online with that. We've got about 1500 downloads. I'm in a very short period of time, so we're very excited about that. And for those of you who get your information that way, we're thrilled to invite you to join us. But more importantly, Kay McDonald, back with us, founder and CEO of Charity Charms, one of the best people in our sector. I always think that you're such a go-to resource, Kay, because you get to see what a lot of different nonprofits are doing. And I'm really interested to get your feedback on this. Talk to us first about your journey with Charity Charms, how you started, and what the overall concept of your business is. Okay. Oh gosh. And you knew me when I started 18 years ago. No way. I'm 18 years old. I was a baby. Wow. But no, I saw a need working with charities through my retail business. I saw a need for charities to have really, really nice, tangible gifts and acknowledgement pieces for their communities. Everybody was doing hats and pens and t-shirts. But there's a level of interaction with most charities, where they'll have a women's board, or they'll have volunteers, or there's just different strata that sometimes could not be addressed. And one of the most important things ever for a nonprofit is to make sure that they are thanking the people that helped them make their mission happen. And so at the time, Charms were making a resurgence. And I just thought, gosh, Charms are something wearable that tell people stories. And I thought I'll make Charms for charities and they can use them for all these different things. And then one day I was looking down and I noticed all the look. I had grabbed a bunch of brochures. I saw the logos on the table and the logos jumped out at me. And I thought, boy, charities spend thousands of dollars on the marketing and the branding and the logos. The logos speak to who they are. And I could make those logos into a beautiful charm versus just something generic. So that's kind of how Charity Charms was born. And we've gone through many iterations over the years. We started out with only high-end sterling silver, kind of Tiffany style. And then we got into all kinds of things, even little stones for best friends, animal society, men's bracelets, and you name it. It's funny how things have morphed and changed over the years. Well, I think that's one of the things that that's why you're such a go-to person in our sector. Because it seems to me you really listen and dare I say, observe the entire landscape. And then you go back to your studio and figure out what could be some really good avenues for the nonprofit sector. And so that's what's so cool with how you think and how you work. And I'm really excited to talk to you about this again, because it's been a while since we've had you on the nonprofit show. And so much has happened. And I'm really curious, now what are you seeing as we're going back into the event space or the event world? And we're doing some IRL in real-life things. Are you thinking about, you know, how we get people back interested? Are we rewarding our volunteers? Is this pre-post-event? Like, help us understand how we can be using these incentives. Well, I think traditionally, logo special gifts are something that we're given at an event. And I think because of what's happened with events, you know, having to go digital, people are starting to think how to engage people before an event, because everyone was like, okay, we're going to do this digital thing, but how do we get people there? Right. Yeah. So, sometimes a little gift ahead of time, or if you attend, you receive this gift, you know, some kind of just little incentive thing to get people to peak people's interest more than just, oh my god, here's another thing I have to sit through. So, I didn't mean that to sound bad, but you know what I mean? Just make it fun, give them some incentives, have some quizzes, have some fun things, you know, and then also, you know, a meaningful piece that you're going to send them afterwards. One thing that's happened from this, too, I think, is that a lot of times at events, yes, they capture people's information, but if it's digital, you don't always capture everybody's address and things like that. So, by offering an incentive gift, you're able to capture people's address as well. And that's really good to have in your database, because we've had to think of a multi-prong effect now. We can't just do emails, we can't just do social media. You really do need to be able to send something tangible to people. I think Direct Mail has really had an increase in a resurgence. It's so interesting. I never thought about that oh so important piece of gaining the information so that you can continue the conversation with your donors in a digital world. I mean, we've been hearing more and more about watch parties where people get together maybe in someone's home and kind of have a small group that has more of a digital presence and things of that nature, but you don't capture those people, the people that are in that room, their information necessarily. I love, love, love this tool and this idea. And again, I hadn't really thought of that. It's very, very smart, very, very smart. Well, and I think it's a really nice touch point, whether it's a digital event or even if it's an in-person event, if there is something that arrives after the event, thanking people or we say when the event is is gone, the memory lives on. Yeah, so a week, 10 days, two weeks later, you get some nice thank you in the mail. You know, people remember you. It's important to stay top of mind because as we all know, there's lots and lots of causes out there and everybody wants to support everything they can, but there is a limit. You know, let me ask you this question in regards to volunteers. You know, I know that we've been so event heavy and we talk about fundraising, you know, on the nonprofit show, probably 75% of the time because that just seems like it's at the heart of how we get things done, but when we talk about our volunteers and we don't talk about our volunteers enough, are you seeing the opportunity to reach out with, you know, cause merchandise for them? Or is this really more sticking to that fundraising piece? No, I think volunteer engagement and thank yous are really important, especially since so many of the nonprofits had to stop having volunteers come into their facilities. You know, and that's a huge component of what makes these charities and missions work is all the volunteers. So now they've got the big challenge of re-engaging everybody. We're still here. Please come back. We care about you. And there's nothing more heartwarming for a volunteer to have something that they can wear and say, look who I donated to, look who I'm involved with. So as an outreach, this is just as an outreach idea, hopefully you have the contact information for the volunteers. If you don't have their address, you can say, hey, stop into our facility and pick up your thank you gift so that we can give it to you in person and let's re-engage, then you can, you know, get their information. It's just a touch point, a way to get the masses back in, because gosh, no, they all depend on volunteers. You know, I know that hospitals have been so good at this hospital volunteer systems, and I don't know why we don't see this more in other nonprofit sectors, but it's that you could use that charm as, you know, every 100 hours or every, you know, volunteer hour milestones. And I'm wondering, have you done work like that? Or have you seen that become part of how people are using charms? Yes, we have. We've done many, many multi-charm programs where we've done like a collectible series. So you get this charm for doing this, you get this charm for doing that. We've done it through education, where they had pillars of education, and you go through this program, you get a charm bracelet. We've used it a lot for women's groups as well, where they have a charm that they collect every single year. We actually do something with Front Doors magazine. They do their gala every year, and we do a bracelet for them every year. This is the one that we did for them this year. It has all kinds of charms on it, little movies and hearts and things like that. So everybody looks forward to their collectible gift. I love that. So that's really moving forward and keeping it not just having it be a one-trick pony, that it actually pulls them in almost like a giving society piece. Exactly. Or we call it a legacy program. Legacy program. I love it. I think that's really smart. Well, let me ask you another question, and that is like how do charms tell the nonprofit story? Because you're talking about a logo and actually moving that logo into something that's branded. Is that enough for somebody just to see that logo or that icon? I mean, because there's just so much out there. How do we as consumers know or align that back to that mission? Well, part of it is because we do use the logo, because we feel the logo is so significant. So just for example, like here's the Salvation Army. It's a key chain. It's done in our colors. One of the things that we, we really work with our charities. So it's not just, hey, let's make a product for you, but let's do something that tells the story. We did like this little bracelet right here is for ARC. These are ARC thrift stores in Denver. And we really believe that the packaging is important to tell the story. So you have the logo, then you see the logo on the bracelet. The little cards that we make are a little bit bigger than the business cards. So people will usually grab them and put them in their desk. And depending on the organization that we work with, they always put their website on the back. They'll put their mission statement. There may be some health numbers or something. So you can use this like a mini brochure. So instead of just getting a product, putting it on and then not having anything, we really feel that it's all about telling the story and doing the marketing. And then in addition, with our, with our clients, we also interview them. We started a podcast series. We do a blog, a podcast. We tell the story of almost every charity that we work with and interview the executive director. So we also try and get exposure for the charity when they're doing the product. So it's really almost, it seems like you're spending a lot of time in the presentation of it. And I love that you said you almost turned that packaging into a brochure. Really smart. Really smart. Well, it's, it really, I think it really, really works because, you know, it's like double whammy. You see, you see the logo, then you see it made into a charm. And you're like, oh, okay. And then you want to read more about it because it also makes it more interesting than just have this bracelet. And it seems to me too, the way you're doing this with a packaging, maybe that's gotten you over the hump or through the, through the bend of the pandemic in that this is a something you can mail. You can actually mail mail and it's good to go. You don't, there's so many things that we have had to physically pass out or distribute at events. And with those events gone, yep, we lost that link. These so easily will pop into a mailing that you already have planned, or you can put it in a simple little padded envelope. Yeah, so it's, that's actually become a really nice avenue for a lot of not-an-unprofits. One of the things I want to talk to you about, and I'm always like so interested in this, and that's using your branded material. You have one of your giving bands here. Can you talk about the giving band concept and how it kind of moved from, and these are my words, and maybe they're not right, but it put you into a market with a little bit lower price point. I mean, because a lot of times non-profits are like, oh my god, that's like super high end. We can't do that. And but this seems like that was a product line. And I can see in your mannequin behind you or your shoulder, he's got a whole bunch of giving bands on him. Here's a whole bunch. Yeah, share with us that story and what you've done. Okay, well, we started out only doing sterling silver, very high end sterling silver. And then in 2008, the market crashed, and the price of sterling silver shot through the roof. And we were like, oh dear, we had a big event, and it's like everything just went poof. And one of the fellows that I work with that helps me create the molds, he says, have you ever thought of doing Pewter? And I was like, no. But he introduced me to a Pewter factory that's actually here in Arizona. And we had we created a whole new product line. We reinvented ourselves. We also, I don't know if you ever used to wear these little silicone fun things when you were younger. But when I, you know, when Madonna was the craze. I'm like, tons of these on my arms. And so, oh, yes. I'm not college. So I saw these out and I had them made for me. They have our logo on them. And we do them in all different colors to match the charity's brand. And then we add the Pewter, Pewter charms. And so, you know, when a sterling charm at cost was $35, these are now five dollars. So it opened us up to a whole new market. And it's interesting that most the charities that have done the sterling program embrace this with open arms are like, oh my gosh, you know, we love the concept. But now we have something that we can give out to the employees and to the volunteers before the sterling was too expensive. Now, how do you bridge the question of male versus female, you know, use? I see the key chains. And I can see that as an easy, you know, it goes all to all different levels of people, ages, genders, really easy to move across the marketplace and the segment of who you're working with. But talk to us about these giving bands and the concept of having something that might be perceived as a more feminine gift versus unisex. How have you navigated that? Well, to be honest with you, charms are something that women wear. And women make up, you know, huge demographic part of the, you know, of the charities. And the other thing is that if a man is part of it, he's delighted to get something that he can come home and give his wife or his daughter. So, you know, to stay true to who we are, charms are for women. Throughout the years, though, yes, we have added key chains, and they've been really, really popular. This carrying cord bracelet is considered unisex because it, you know, it fits everybody and the charm is small. So if somebody wants unisex items, we definitely have them. But I'd say probably the bulk of our line is geared towards women, just because charms women. But it's interesting now, you go and look at all the celebrities, all the guys are wearing all these necklaces full of charms and they're wearing the beaded bracelet. So it's becoming very universal. And you have added beads. I've noticed that to your, your lines, I was in advance of this interview, I was back on your website. It does seem like you've added lines where you have semi-precious stones. And that, that kind of is more crossing the marketplace, it seems like. You bet. You bet. We've got some semi-precious stones. We have ornaments. We have bowls. We have all kinds. Just an example of some of the stones that we've done. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. And the bridges reentry. We matched all the colors of their logo. Wow. I love it. I think it's really clever. Talk to me a little bit about moving forward. As we look at some tenuous times, people are still having issues with having events. We still are not through this pandemic is I think we thought we might be. What are you seeing? Are people embracing like a multi-digital and IRL event? Or what are some of those things that, that you're seeing your clients doing for the future? Because the future is like coming around. I mean, we're like at the second half of the season. Right. I mean, what are you seeing? Well, I'm seeing that they are doing events, but they're also offering the digital component. I think they have to because there's too much uncertainty. And what I think has also happened though is that they've realized that it allows them to reach a broader audience. Say they're, you know, say they're involved in like the leukemia society and their whole families here in Phoenix, but they've got family all over the country. Normally they wouldn't be able to participate. Now they could send them the link and then the whole, you know, family and friends and everything can, can all be included. So I think, I think we are in the world where it's not ever going to go back to just events. I think we've got to offer alternatives because there's uncertainty, but because it's also expands the horizons and has brought in a whole new way of doing things. And I know a lot of people would prefer to just do the Zoom call or do something digital now. You know, it's been really interesting. We've had such a number of guests and actual just viewers and listeners write in or ask us about how do they get people back into board meetings, committee meetings. And because so many folks are like, yeah, I save myself 30 minutes of travel time or and now fuels just, you know, the price of fuels escalating. And people are like, yeah, I mean, I don't want to spend that extra money. I mean, there's just all these things on to put pressure on still keeping a digital communication. And I've got to believe that as you started off in our conversation today, if you have something that you can send to somebody that gives them some sort of physical manifestation of being a part of a group or aligning with a nonprofit, it's pretty strong. Well, it is. It's like it's like another touch point. Touching each other digitally is new for some, and it's very wonderful and exciting, but there is nothing more exciting than going to the mailbox and having an unexpected gift. It makes you day. You know, it's true. And I think we had a guest on a couple of weeks ago who's in direct mail and she was like, we're doing great because people have now like gone back to what's in the mail today. You know, they're excited. Right. Yeah, it's been really, really interesting. Well, it's hard to believe, my friend, that our time is up. You know, when I chat with you, things are a blur. I love your energy. I always love the observations that you bring to us because you work with so many different nonprofits around the country of all different sizes. And you get to really share a lot of insight that most people would never, ever be privy to. So thank you so, so much Kay McDonald for joining us. Again, Kay is CEO and founder of Charity Charms. Check out our website, charitycharms.com. You can also access Oliver podcast and they're fascinating conversations with leaders and nonprofit. I want to say influencers that really give different perspectives on what's going on in our sector. We have had and will continue to have tremendous opportunities of change. And as Kay, if you were with us in the green room chatter, you know, Kay made an amazing comment and that is those that were able to lean into change and embrace new ways and truly pivot have been reaping some amazing results through this and will continue to. So I think Kay, your podcasts have been really been interesting to listen to. And so I want to make sure everybody sees that and can understand that there's another resource out there. You also, I don't want to let you go without talking about The Power of Charms. You have a really cool book. You can get it on Amazon and it talks, it's interviews with different women and a couple men, right? I'm not in the book. The book is all about women. I do interviews with men on the podcast, but the book is all about women and the symbols that are significant in their life. It's interesting because everybody has a favorite symbol or they might not have thought of it, but then they're like, oh, yeah, I love a butterfly or I love a hummingbird. And this is why. So we talk about symbols becoming horrible charms and kind of tie the whole concept of The Power of Charms together. It's really a really cool and thoughtful book. I love it. I love the story of you holding on to your grandmother's charm bracelet and all of those different pieces and how magical that is. I think it's just such a wonderful way to pull the thread through the story. And so I can't recommend The Power of Charms enough. It's really a cool thing. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd. We'll be back with her shortly as she's out traveling. I think she's traveling cross-country today. I think she's on a flight to somewhere in the south. I'm not sure, but she's off and out and about. Again, we want to make sure we thank all of our presenting sponsors without them. We would not be here having this amazing conversation as we've had with Kay McDonald today. American Nonprofit Academy, Blumerang, Fundraising Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, and Staffing Boutique. Those are the folks that are here with us day in and day out as we march forward Kay towards our 600 episode. Congratulations. Oh my God. Well, thank you. Like I said, you are one of our very firsts and we are awfully, awfully proud of you because we've seen you do some amazing things in our sector and you really support so many nonprofits. So thank you. Well, thank you. And look at a business and a concept born out of the pandemic and the challenge. It's true. Fantastic. It's absolutely true. I mean, yeah, and we talked about it a lot, but that's been one of the really interesting pieces of these changing times is how we've all had to change and what we've been able to embrace and how we've been able to open our minds. And so, and you are my friend, our big part of that. So thank you. Thank you. Hey, as we like to end every episode, we want to remind ourselves and you as well. Stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone.