 This is the second in a webinar series that SDSN, SDSN Amazonia and Geopart Quadrilateral have been organizing about mining in the SDGs and we're so happy to have you all with us today. Today we're going to look at regulations and strategic guidelines that can be implemented to improve territorial governance frameworks and the mining chain. It will emphasize proper dialogue and communication between local communities, external stakeholders, mining representatives, and governmental authorities. The group will also discuss the definition of what sustainable is when talking about a mining territory or community. We have four fabulous speakers with us today. First we'll hear from Renato Simonelli. He is president of Geopart Quadrilateral, which is a member of SDSN, and he's also co-chair of this group organizing webinar series and our online collaborative platform for talking about the SDGs and mining. We have a collaborative platform on the website Mobilize and everyone who's participating in this webinar after we disconnect you'll get a recording of the webinar as well as an invitation to join that platform. His area of expertise specifically is innovation and mining territories. After Renato Simonelli we'll hear from Dr. Kieran Moffitt. He's a social and organizational psychologist and the CEO and co-founder of Vokonic, a data science and community engagement company created in 2019. Built on a platform of science he developed over a decade at CSIRO, Australia's National Science Agency. Then we'll hear from Rolf George Fuchs, who's got over 20 years of experience in large companies and coordinating the areas of public and community affairs and social responsibility. Since 2001 he's backed as a consultant focused on social and sustainability issues, mainly in the industrial sector and he's a founding partner and president of Integratio, a pioneer and one of the most recognized Brazilian consultancy groups on ESG and the social license to operate. And then finally we'll close out our panel with Giorgio Dottomi, a mining engineer with a degree from the University of Sao Paulo and a PhD from the Imperial College and Masters of Science from Southern Illinois University. He heads the USP Center for Responsible Mining and is the professor of mining at the University of Sao Paulo and he's also a fellow of IOM 3 and has a degree in engineering from the UK and acts as the mining QP and CP for numerous enterprises worldwide. So without any further ado I'll ask Renato to please go ahead and connect his camera and share his slides. We will start it off with him and while he works on that I will remind everyone we will have opportunity for Q&A at the end of the presentations. If you would like to ask a question feel free to raise your hand. We will call on you and give you the opportunity to connect your camera your microphone and or your camera if you so choose if we can see your face to ask your question. We're going to hold all the questions until the end after all four presentations. Renato please the floor is yours. Thank you Lauren. Well welcome to all the audience for to be here with us. We hope that you can participate by sending message sending questions. This is the second as as Lauren introduced you strategic guideline for sustainable mining territories is the second webinar of a series within SDSN and the platform visions to SDG in mining territories. I'm very happy to be here with Kirin, Giorgio and Rolf. Kirin we have been working maybe by 2010 at the time attempting to bring life socialized to operate to Brazil. At that time was there was no no clear clear evidence of the need for that but understand that now is the time and so and Kirin has representatives in Brazil. He eventually will talk about that. Giorgio de Tomi and Rolf we are colleagues at Brazil mineral magazine and it will be very interesting to share our our views. Well my idea of the presentation is that I'll be in each slide presenting arguments challenge and proposals that could be used in the work to develop guidelines that could support the the sustainability of mining territory. The the first concept geographic arena for mining territory is a very basic guideline focus and also governance priority for agreement. We as as you go through the the presentation it's very clear if you are looking for sustainability of the mining territory certainly you need to create a governance so the guidelines are needed as a as a as a basic requirement but at the same time as the governance is is organized and start to to function essentially the the this governance we have to agree what's really the concept or the definition to be used for for mining territory. Tentatively just a minute here tentatively the geographic perimeter of a mining territory considered the operational areas of the local mines and their logistic, hydraulic, social, environmental, economic and support related extensions so it's much more complex what's what's considered to be the mining territory and is this governance local governance that through them agree what should be the concept to be validated. Also another point what are the the scopes that in some way counters the the need for strategic guidelines okay so the guidelines general scope to be economic, social, environmental and sustainable development of mining territories in power of local populations competitiveness and growth of local business, generation of income and jobs, resolution of conflicts mining territory so this is the the the the the the whole area of of topics of teams that we will be looking for establish what will be our priority for new guidelines. Also we can start by what the the inaugurating members of the platform in 2021 when the platform Visual2SDG mine was was formed they established already some challenge that could be transformed into into guidelines just a minute so so the the platform at that time in May of 2021 they established the the following challenge that could be again transformed into proposal of guidelines what's the definition of sustainable mining this is a very common uh proposes a very common term and we have to really discuss if this term is is is correct is applicable and how it relates to the the mining territory but in a sense this is the main focus the main target is to have a sustainable mining territory stakeholders communication stakeholders dialogue industries stakeholders communication dialogue and collaboration since exploration and the early stage of the mining project it's very common that that the territorial actors they only enter in in the in the engagement or in the dialogue process eventually when the project the mining project is already very advanced we integrate local mining ecosystems to promote knowledge exchange between mining territories so we understand that the many mining territories that have around the world either in brazil or around the world they can exchange between them experience proposals and and and clues to really reach their objectives and finally in this slide mining and long-term local developments it's interesting that there is a difficulty in culture to to to develop to go to govern uh long-term local developments the other slides in the same concept in the rural areas where mining takes place there is a lack of infrastructure and skilled labor how do communists recover from mining disasters how do you deal with mine closure what happens to the environment and the community and again looking this this questions are mainly important for who is in the territory okay there is a very intense knowledge at the mining sector but again there is a lack of of experience of knowledge of methodology at the size of the territorial actors communists may not have the education to effectively engage investors and companies may not understand local realities or how to engage their communities and understand their value and customs education is needed for better communication dialogue transparent again all these points certainly will converge to to to propose off guidelines since we are talking about in this this webinar is proposed to be uh focus on on the whole universe of mines and mining territories we come to we bring here the international council of mining and metals as a reference for for the mining industries globally ICMM have a set of mining principles as a reference for the global mining industry and in case you did the best environmental social and governance practice established by the ICMM for follow 38 performance expectations and eight position statements you can look at these uh the 38 performance expectation eight position statements in more detail at the site of ICMM and at the side at the the finish of the 38 performance expectations we can understand that they are aligned to the SDGs and the Paris agreements for climate change however sustainable mining territory are not a clear target for ICMM but we can understand that the synergies ESG applied to industry with SDGs applied to territory are more evident these are these association these are aligned to ICMM principles and you understand at this point again we have a very uh sharp proposal for future guidelines we can say this is a figure that I have been using a lot is that if we look at this SDG eight 17 goals at the same time the the mini operations at the mining sector okay at the productive chain that define the SDG focus we can say that if we align if we if we get closer these two these two objectives SDG and ESG certainly will let's say make faster the the reach of the sustainability again following uh we may say that mining territories are not aligned fully for sustainability its respect from the ICMM principles and the current mining attitudes that in the current decades the mining sector will show remarkable improvements in the current sustainability indicators the same optimist is not expected the sustainability of mining territory and in power of local communities and stakeholders what's more important about this dissonance in timing is that mining territories not adequately addressed by the industry may become an impediment to improvement of sustainability indicators at the mining sector so it's very important that the mining companies understand that if they want to reach uh full uh access to their expectations of sustainability they have to engage the territory actors otherwise there is an impediment for more advancement of the mining industry at the end guidelines and recommendations to the mining territories share with mining companies and governments may be seen as a priority targeted by the platform so we understand that as we develop the guidelines for the territory okay we have to be communicating these guidelines to the mining companies and the government that will certainly catalyze or induce more fast development of the mining territories another point related to mining territories is helping power mining territories for improvement in sustainability i have a set of seven uh subjects first one is to educate stakeholders for mining territory difference and conference of culture we are talking complete difference in culture from mining sector and territorial actors so we have to make an effort so that the difference in culture may be better managed we are not saying that the culture the difference culture won't won't be there but we have to say that we have to to to make that this this difference in culture be more friendly okay that they they work together more friendly second to assess territorial values periodically social economic environmental and cultural so we have to assess periodically what have been the results of the efforts from all the sides from all the actors in terms of developing the the the mining territory third is how to assess periodically the sg is in the territory fourth to mobilize and engage the communities stakeholders private second government agents in proper system of communication so communication is very important if you want to reach really collaboration between all these actors fifth to articulate alliance and partnerships that will be in fact the 70 uh 17 sdg in the the list of the 70s 60 to empower local leaderships and seven to conceive and plan a sustainable development governance renew each 10 years time so in our understanding 10 years time could be the unit of time to have an uh an important sustainable development governance okay so we have to understand that this is a long-term project okay change culture to engage the actors and to really make collaboration between the actors this takes time i see a lot of of mining territories i see a lot of mining companies they they they they give up after maybe four years or less because they think that they will never succeed that that's not the right okay because we know in advance that the long time will be required for success and we can say that the question how to empower mining territories for improvement sustainability converge to a proposal protocol of communication engagement governance for mining territory so our protocol will be already a proposal of guidelines and these we can either benchmark all the mining territories or the system the mining territory mining sector or we can use fundamentals to develop the proper proposal protocol for the specific case and finally as a case uh we established using post-mining economic development or to use the economic development as part of the mining closure process as a case how we are going to apply all this this inserted challenge and proposals to really succeed in a post-mining economic development we have some premises for that first one is to adopt the concept of just transition the second one is to address full diversity of the population in a way that nobody is to be forgotten in the development in engaging all the diversity in this post-mining economic development to address micro to large business segments so it's very common that the municipalities they want just medium to large business to diversify the economy as after the mine has gone and that's not the case we have from micro to individual business to large business segments proper culture and need of continuity in long-term planning as a push-off programs in in in communities in territories and mining companies that doesn't understand this need for long-term development so that this is going to be a challenge we need to start the planning and the execution of a program of investigation of economic development post-mine to be long to be a long-term process and in terms of the main Chinese specific challenge we may say that one is the diagnosis of past current and reclaiming scenarios events and impact we have the governance has to be following these steps have to understand in a good view in a big view what's going on okay in one year three years five years ten years and more the second one is mobilization of required resource institutional frameworks timing and governance so we need to mobilize all these resources in order to be to be successful or the one is planning some countries some convenience some systems mining territory they are not using to plan they're just developed by intuition or they develop by the the priority of the mining sector or the priority of the the territorial sector and again we say that we have to align we have to combine ESG and SDG in a way to really make successful so that okay you have the individual individual priorities territorial or mining but at the same time we need to identify common goals between these two systems fourth one is governance organization and operation certainly we need to and coming back from from what we will have been discussed about ICM okay for the for the mining industry they already have been working with their their teams and for for a long time but that's not the case okay we have we have to make them to work together in a governance system so that we could have the the communities the governments the mining components each of the mining sector because we have many operations and many process within the mining sector so we have to find a way in a governance system to put all these together and others that eventually people may may collaborate in the following slides well we'll ask you to wrap up okay man a closing correction a collection of proposed guidelines we have subjects raised by member of the CSDSN platform vision to SDG mining territory the general scope for the guidance to improve communication dialogue among mining territory actors new cultures to explore synergistic ESG SDG to improve sustainability indicators protocol of communication direction to a governance structure to the mining territory system in finding mining closure economic development as a case under just transition agenda and diversity and these are my contacts okay someone wants to proceed with the discussion on this talk thank you very much thank you so much Renato without any further ado we'll turn to our next speaker Dr. Karen Moffitt and thank you so much to everybody who is introducing yourself in the chat if you haven't done so already please feel free to do so it's great to see where everybody's joining us from thanks very much and can I just confirm that slide perfect okay excellent thanks and hi everybody uh Karen Moffitt here from Brisbane Australia but also on the line and I will see a Santiago who's based in South Barlow works for the iconic and leads our Latin American operations as well so welcome to her as well excellent to be working with you again Renato and thank you for the invitation really great presentation and great segue into what what I'll be speaking about today which is the integration of SDGs ESG as two sets of of principles and frameworks how they relate to each other and to social license to operate as a family of concepts and then really trying to get quite specific about the way that we work with with companies to to inform how they approach SDGs sustainable business practices and and how they may be rewarded and and grow as as as a result of differentiating themselves through through that sustainable activity so I first want to start there with a really brief story when I was working at CSIRO Australia's national science agency I found it really difficult to recruit social scientists to come and work with me I didn't take it personally but but what they would say is that actually we find it difficult to work in the mining industry we want to work on on big media issues and feel like the the mining industry might be a part of those a part of the problem but actually what I would always say to them is that mining sits at the center of so many of the great human challenges of our time and that working in the mining industry and with the mining industry offers an opportunity to help those really significant large companies and industries and government in those spaces to think about those issues in new ways and that's certainly what we've been doing in in the work that we did in CSIRO and now in Vakonek and when I think about SDGs I immediately thought of this report from from 2020 from Responsible Mining Foundation Columbia Centre on Sustainable Investment they did a really excellent review of the performance of 38 companies in the mining industry against the social the SDGs given at that time there was only 10 years left until those goals needed to be achieved now eight years and what you know they really said very clearly is that the SDGs provide this framework through which companies can demonstrate via their integration or reporting activities that they're managing the full range of economic environmental social and governance issues in a responsible manner and and I think that's a really key statement here in particularly in light of the next slide I'll show you but but that the reporting is not action that that what we need to be thinking about very clearly is how we're demonstrating that we in the industry are working tangibly and productively and constructively towards the sustainable development goals and bringing that thinking that underpins the SDGs into core business practices within the companies of the mining industry now in their review 38 geographically dispersed large-scale mining companies accounting for close to 30 percent of the global value of mining production so you can kind of guess what what companies they are what they found is that many companies are paying real attention to and doing good work on the SDGs and their role in achieving them and in fact a few were doing really excellent work integrating them into their core business however it was only a few companies that were doing really well in that space because mostly what they found is that companies were were simply cosmetically demonstrating how the work that they were already doing and planning to do was mapping against the SDGs so rather than thinking about the SDGs driving their activities they're thinking about how to demonstrate that their activities were mapped to the SDGs and those things are quite different so the chief criticisms of of all areas where the mining industry could improve around going beyond simple mapping of SDGs to ESG issues that they deemed they deemed to be material that's really important i'll come back to that later secondly that the prioritization so what they were focusing on was often quite superficial and and we see this in criticisms of sustainability reporting that there are nice stories in there but they're cherry picking activities that look good rather than make substantial progress towards those SDGs and as I said that was already sort of cosmetic reporting and reporting to be selective and in fact what we we found when we did a piece of work with the ICMM on community resilience in the context of COVID-19 we found something quite similar that companies are very comfortable working on those things that were close to their core business like economic development within the local communities that they work alongside but that isn't the whole story when it comes to resilience just like the things that companies are focusing on in the SDG space isn't the whole gamut of issues that they need to be working on to achieve those goals so for example this report really pulled out the fact that a community well-being was something that companies talked about quite a lot but in fact we're making quite minor progress towards improving at scales that we're going to make a difference in achieving the SDGs but this isn't to say that companies are not wanting to do this but often what we see is the context within which industry operates is not facilitating their investment in those in those in those areas and that's often for two reasons one the market doesn't reward those behaviors that the market that allows them to access capital and rewards them with lower risk gradings isn't seeing the work that they're doing or isn't showing that they will reward that would work in the SDG space and and so that really helps us to to move into this second space which is around ESG performance tracking the area that companies are really embracing now because markets are also embracing this way of understanding company performance and what's really exciting about this space is for me as a social scientist as a social researcher as somebody who sees the real value in bringing community bringing society into the center of the way we think about the mining industry and the benefits it can deliver not only at local scales but at societal scales and being part of the challenges that we face as a larger human community that social features really prominently as a pillar in the ESG performance space but what's really interesting in this space is that for most of these of these topics there are really quite clear accepted objective ways of understanding company performance to them reward by markets but the one area that really remains very underdeveloped and less mature is around understanding and demonstrating effectiveness in community relations and in particular managing social risk and when I think about ESG and its parallels with the area of research that I've really focused on in my career which is social license to operate I start thinking well maybe what we need to be doing is thinking not about community relations as part of the suite of metrics that we judge a company by as a starting point but in fact evaluating company performance through the perspective on each of these dimensions through the eyes of community members through those people who are receiving company activities or on the other end of company activities in each of these different spaces and not only is that an indicator of the extent to which a company holds a strong social license to operate but if you do community relations well at local and larger scales you will have a stronger social license to operate but it also allows companies to look at these issues of community relations through a risk lens and that of course is the language of mining companies that is language that allows mining companies to pay attention to these issues in real tangible constructive ways using a language that they understand that markets understand but also what's really required there is to do that in a way that brings community into that conversation that's what really we've been focusing on in in our work so together what we have is SDGs, ESG and social license to operate this is really a family of concepts that are complimentary in their nature and they all require a one a collaborative effort from companies markets and government to reward and encourage good company practices there has to be something in it for companies and I know that the business case for operating in a sustainable way has been made very clearly but it's hard to change the way a company thinks and acts in these spaces without a good economic or risk-based way of driving new activities behaviors and ways of understanding these issues and the second issue I want to pick up on here is that what I think is really missing what I think will help in terms of that review that was done around company activity on SDGs is to look at the issues through the lens of risk i.e. from the perspective of that state that set of stakeholders who represent risk to mining companies which is which is the communities they operate alongside what we know from our research and what we've written a lot about is that when communities do not have a constructive productive way to have a conversation with companies that are operating alongside and to address the issues they have in their experience of living alongside large-scale mining they will find creative and antagonistic ways to address their concerns that is a fact that we have seen over and over and in fact what we now see and this is where I think the topic of this conversation really comes to the fore is that the governments are really paying attention to that risk as well and what we've seen just across the border from where you are today Ronaldo in Chile is four major operations four major proposed mines in Chile have been rejected by a government there in large part because of the social pushback around the development of those operations so what I want to focus on now are three things that I think are really important in helping to to bring the SDGs to life and allow companies to to switch their focus from reporting against the SDGs to driving behavior through and towards the SDGs so one is robust social data built on science the second is tracking data across time to be able to see how things change and reward companies for doing better and the third is making that good performance visible to a range of actors that are important in this space so first kicking off here this is the product of what we what we do in our work which is called a path analysis we bring the voice of community inside companies through using surveys and doing really sophisticated statistical analysis of that surveys not not only to understand what community think about a company but why they think that way and what you're looking at here is effectively the recipe for social license for one of the companies that we work with in a local operation and what this what this modeling tells us is the relative strengths of each of the experiences and expectations here on the left hand side in predicting acceptance or social license to operate of a project on the right hand side what we can also see is that trust sits very centrally in this equation in the relationship between a company and the and the community's acceptance of an operation and when you read around the social when read around sustainable development goals the theme of trust is very strong and it's strong in this work which is really trying to understand social license as well again demonstrating that these are a family of of concepts what we can also do with this work is show that not only for example is it that environmental impacts negatively affects trust and acceptance of a project so to track the more is severe the impacts that are experienced by local community members the less trust they have in a company and the less they accept a project i.e. the higher the risk of rejection of a project in a local context but we can also tease apart on exactly which dimensions of environmental impact our community most concerned and which of those areas are most important or material to trust and acceptance and so in using methods like this we're able to reverse engineer the materiality discussion where companies are often imposing their view of what is material and their relationships onto community to manage this social risk but in fact what we're doing here is from the ground up working with community and then using these sophisticated techniques to derive and understand what is in fact material to the relationship between a company and the communities that they operate alongside so our first principle here is building robust social data built on a platform of science and so that everybody that's looking at this data has faith and trust in in the data itself in what we're producing here that this is tangible and robust the second concept that I wanted to pick up on here is that it's really critical that companies have feedback in real time as to whether the activities that they're conducting locally to manage their social risk to improve their community relations are actually having a positive effect on their community relations now this may sound simple but in fact is really fundamental for markets to then be able to to see and to reward that great community relations activity and so we want to see at these points what is it that the company was doing to improve trust within community so that that company can replicate that activity in lots of other places as well and then third and final area that I think is really important here is making that good performance visible so what you're seeing here is a snapshot from the dashboards that we provide to our customers that allow them to demonstrate to other parts of the business in a language that they understand where in fact the relationship is is most important to be focusing on and I've circled up here regulations because this is really critical community confidence in the regulatory environment in which a mining company operates is fundamental to improving trust in a company demonstrating to both the company and also to government that they are in this together that achieving the sdgs that achieving a social license is something that they need to work on together and collaboratively we also work on on closing the look back to community because it's really critical that we provide transparency around this that if we're going to be telling markets and investors and risk rating agencies and insurance companies that we're doing a good job we also need to be showing community the nature of the relationship and the things that we're focusing on reflecting their own voice back to them something we found to be really important in building stronger relationships with local communities so that and this is my last slide we use the language of companies to understand and drive better social performance within companies that is robust defendable is transparent and visible to those that will reward that behavior i.e markets and show governments that it's also in their best interest to support and reward companies that are working meaningfully to achieve the sdgs perhaps in that region wide type structure that ronardo was just describing to us previously thanks so much and i look forward to to getting into some discussion later wonderful thank you so much kiran um well i won't add to the time by uh and take it away from the discussion we'll go ahead and turn to our next speaker rolf george fuchs uh please the floor is yours thank you lauren thank you for the invitation thank you everyone and for the attendance and thank a lot to ronardo and kiran for the good and comprehensive presentations i will try to share my screen that looks great yeah fine so uh it's a very very fantastic theme that i have and i will try to complement a little bit what rinato and kiran already presented with a deeper focus on the human side the community side and the perspective of the community like he said but my page is not changing let's try it again um and if it still doesn't work i'm happy to run your slides for you yeah so just a short about it yeah about integrats we have a strong presence in whole brazil and expanding to south america now and like you said in the beginning lauren our focus is uh is the social management community management and all this yeah our goal today is uh integrated territory management uh i like i said i will i will try to go a little bit deeper in this uh to achieve this uh this goal we need we need to recognize motivations why do people act the community perspective and of course each person acts to defend or meet interests and needs uh so the way is to converge common needs and interests to achieve an integrated approach but a lot of examples that this doesn't work in every place on the left you have a map with conflicts in uh without environmental justice social environmental justice in the world and so a lot of other examples i have but like rinato said a lot of companies gave up or are on hold with projects in over the last 10 years in south america are estimated more than 35 us billion dollars of investments canceled or on hold and a lot of of examples some of you know this one or other case in brazil we have a large number of projects that uh live on conflict and some of them like rinato said gave up but why do we look for this uh we integrate through work to make viable this this project and managing this conflict or anticipating we prefer to work before the the conflict tries of course uh um so the socializing scope a rate is a necessity uh but this means mutual understanding he has g an implementation of stgs is the way for this i think that's clear after this other both good presentations but to achieve this we need to understand no community relation is possible if there is not understanding of the community and uh a lot of a large number of community of companies uh speech their own language don't understand enough uh or try to understand in a not technical scientific basis and understand the territory the environment the history the needs the education level the perceptions and the culture and we developed a technology or a or a tool for this uh to because this is a a good assessment social environment or assessment can say this to you but you need to build a good prognosis look to the future to permit integrated territory management and social and economic development uh so we have to understand better the most important company component of a territory the people and so we we work uh internally with five dimensions of human actions uh like a shell we have only five basic uh families of feelings or actions that motivate persons and communities to act so uh the territory is first uh achieve basic needs the property space domain here as she influence and the need to be respected that's the basic and first need from each human is to be respected and if we don't uh act with with the good and and and first of all respect we it's the first step to to close a project or a company ideology is believe in this religion adogna sectorism discrimination we have to understand the ideology that motivates this people the advantage is to gain advantage to provide advantage for others or to seek advantage for all and the fourth one is the emotional hate joy indifference of sadness uh a lot of eyes look at google and more than 170 different emotions are listed and uh that people can feel so we have to understand this and uh the show on over this four is the culture the local culture have to be understood understood Ursula Burns defined for me the best definition of culture is people plus history and uh so with this five uh um uh motivations we can understand the primary motivation and the secondary motivation of a person a group uh uh a whole community and with this with this understanding we can go ahead so uh this help us a lot to understand primary and secondary motivation forces for individuals groups and so we can address approaches dialogue and plant seeds for the understanding and mutual construction of a better future uh shortly very shortly there's it is you gave me 15 minutes and i yes you are our first panelist uh uh finished on time which i appreciate as your moderator thank you so much plus it'll leave more time for the discussion so before we turn to our final and for the floor up and for georgio yes uh before i yield the floor to our final speaker final speaker georgio ditomi i just want to remind everyone i see some of you are using the q and a option at the bottom of zoom that is great especially if you have a quick question for our panel but in the discussion portion after georgio speaks we're actually going to yield the floor to the participants to ask their questions live so if you're interested in that use the raise hand feature at the bottom of zoom to raise your virtual hand and i will call on everybody one by one um after georgio ditomi's presentation when the q and a starts so just a reminder if you want to ask your question on screen please feel free to raise your hand uh and if you're shy you can type it in and i will read it out georgio the floor is yours please okay hi uh hello everybody good morning i live here in brazil uh i'll i'll i'll compliment the brilliant presentations we had just now with a view of esg for small scale mining okay as as you know small scale mining is becoming more and more an important issue in the mining sector and of course esg affects that as well so i'll i'll talk a little bit about that okay so a little bit about the mine value chain uh the 2030 agenda a little bit about this discussion of sustainable development but focused on on small scale mining and a little bit about how to go about it how i believe we can make progress on that okay first of all the mine value chain well uh you guys know how it works it starts with minor exploration then we do mine planning then we go on to engineering studies so we can progress through to implementation and construction and finally we come to operation after operation it's our duty to do the mine closure closure and that's it for the mine value chain right no it's not right we still have another step forward which is the post closure oh sorry but mining it's over and i closed the mine i have nothing else to do but it's precisely what the previous speakers we're talking about is about future use so we we need to get involved we as mining as the mining sector we need to get involved in the post closure as well okay so it's not about only the during the during mining okay we have all the commitments and agreements and relationships going before and after mining okay so when we talk about you know the technical view of it we have the mine planning life of mine that we we look at the life of the mine from the beginning to the end of the mining cycle right but then what happens this is the relationship with the territory and the community's goals goes beyond beyond when you finish mining so that is why we need to do the mine closure plan but wait right at the beginning i don't even have a mine yet and i'm already closing it precisely that is the idea is to have the whole view from the beginning okay so you can go all the way after mining to the commissioning managing the the social trans is socio-economical uh transition and then monitoring and future use so when we talk about the mining value chain it includes not only the during but also the before and the after mining and that is the concept of esgs it doesn't take place only after mining or only during mine closure is the during the whole value value chain and as kirin said there is a this esg concept or agenda includes a family of other concepts they all go together esg social license to to operate the sdgs and decarbonation it all goes together okay well you all know the the sdgs okay 17 objectives with all the targets it's already there and the motto is no one leave no one behind that's beautiful but being the mining sector what did we do oh united nations thank you very much this is fantastic but but i know it applies to all the industry and all sectors and so on but mining is different mining is more complicated you know you should understand this and look what happened one year after the publication of the 2030 agenda in 2016 we got a document from the united nations as well mapping mining to the sdgs so no more excuses each one the sdgs has have all the has all the the the the targets and the actions related to the mining activity where the mining industry or mining sector can contribute to each one of those sdgs this is a beautiful document it's published in many languages easy to access okay but then next step what happened okay united nations thank you for the sdgs thank you for mapping sdgs for for mining but we are small scale mining we are a different sector we have a lot of restrictions with with resources and it's very difficult so well this applies well to large scale mining but not small scale mining sorry so some there was a new player that came into the game to address that issue you know who is this this player my friends it's the world bank the world bank came in to discuss small scale mining and the application of sdgs to small scale mining that's beautiful because it means that the small scale mining sector is crucial is critical for our society so the world bank came in and complimented the work from the united nations and selected nine sdgs there are priority for small scale mining and it's a beautiful document as well because i mean it simplifies the issue so you okay you have 17 sdgs but you s small scale mining you can start with nine of them and prioritize prioritize in those nine sdgs quick example for you guys gender equality very simple here in brazil only the the workforce in small scale mining according to a recent work done by the the ministry of mines is only six percent of the workforce is women so it's very simple to to change that right another another example is is the the job creation right job creation is a big uh like issue for small scale mining because we take uh we we offer jobs where people don't have many options and these jobs are specialized and non-specialized so it helps a lot the local communities and finally you know like strong institutions and and uh having small scale mining contributing to regional uh integration that's a very important role for small scale mining and the second mine small scale mining sector should understand that so what happens this motto of the 2030 agenda which is leave no one behind has a lot to do with with small scale mining so we have to understand that and and and the the small scale mining operators and and the sector in general must understand that and must take this very very seriously into into account okay i saw this presentation you know during the pandemic from university of Delaware they have lots of work they do a lot of work on on sustainable mining and this statement i find it very strong okay there is no sustainable development without uh responsible mining right because we love to use our mobile phones we love to go into you know using technology and so on and for that we need minerals this is the list of critical minerals from Canada for the 21st century and many of them as you can see manganese, tantalum, tin, tungsten they all come from small scale mining almost exclusively from small scale mining so we need to sort out small scale mining we need to sort out the sg issue in small scale mining because if we don't do that we'll have difficulties to obtain the targets of sustainable development in this century okay especially if we take into account our targets to get to carbon neutrality into 2050 okay so it's very important we we understand that and we understand the role of small scale mining in terms of mining the mining sector in general uh Ernestian did this uh uh uh it's a research project in which they interviewed lots of uh mining executives and mining operators around the world and and finding out what is the top issue top risk top issue top challenge in the mining sector and it is about esg okay so right now the esg agenda is a big deal in the whole of mining and it is also in small scale mining with therefore if we don't put absolute priority on esg actions in small scale mining the the small scale mining sector will not be able to contribute with what has to contribute in this century okay so we have to make a collective effort with small scale mining operators with other players in that sector so we we we we include the esg agenda in all the all the decision making within the sector but we still have two additional indicators for this decade and i keep on telling this to the mining small scale mining operators uh clp-26 we recently had that last year and we put two scopes of decarbonation that have to be met within this decade and here in brazil this this the the commitment is to reduce esg emissions by 50 within this decade okay and how can mining and small scale mining contribute on that well you see that in terms of unit operations you have you know you have lots of diesel oil still being used there so the the the like the priority the actions should be taken in these unit operations that still use lots of uh fossil fuel okay because that by doing that we will be contributing to the 2030 agenda and to the esg agenda at the same time okay my my view on this okay how how are we doing how are we doing in terms of esg in small scale mining well environmentally we have lots to improve okay there is lots to be done okay and and the the operator shouldn't stand their role and how important is to look after the territories and look after the future use okay on the other hand socially small scale mining is not doing doing so bad right because there is a lot of interaction and i speak that in terms of my experience talking to people in the field with the local communities they love small scale mining because they bring jobs where they don't have any other option so socially in terms of social responsibility is is doing better than the environment but what about governance well that's my view governance is very small okay so there is lots to do in terms of governance governance of course we have to do in terms of environmental issues social issues but governance should be a big priority for the small scale mining sector okay and are there examples yes good news i have a number of examples that we are working to get better governance in small scale mining the bad news is that we don't have time to cover that but we we can discuss it further later on okay but what i know is to make relationship stronger resilient partnerships with cooperatives or associations of miners another thing is coexistence business models that is bringing a lot of attention because it's bringing very good results in South America and Africa as well and also co-management on the discussions for future use okay mining doesn't know anything everything about future use who who are involved in future use is the local communities okay so let's let's slide how do we get there talking to the small scale mining operators okay pick a few indicators not all of them pick a few indicators and set targets okay start recording that start you know start discussing those targets those indicators with all stack stakeholders and then you control and record them so you have a better way to communicate with your with your community the local communities and all stakeholders involved in that governmental environmental whoever okay but then you go as a mining operator you go with your targets recorded and controlled so you you can show what you're doing about ESG okay and you share that information with everybody and remember my view on this ESG in small scale mining is not our restriction if we do it right we show that ESG in small scale mining is a vocation okay so that's the last last message guys thank you very much looking forward for the discussion thank you Lauren thank you so much uh and you're exactly to time I had I think 12 seconds left on my timer perfect so again uh we can raise hands and I will promote people to speak to ask questions I'm going to promote Nolvanda Rodriguez right now followed by Monica Ferreira and while I promote you guys and you're getting connected I'm going to read one of the questions out of the chat so that'll give everybody a minute to get their cameras and microphones on Vania is asking one of the biggest challenges in ESG adoption is the involvement of the technical staff who need to change the way they operate adopting practices which are away from their comfort zone a good example is the mining planning which is selecting using tools like NPV the mine plan may not be the best suitable mine plan maybe the ESG one is more expensive for instance so how do we convince the technical staff to include these ESG criteria and their operational practices so whoever wants to tackle that can and I'm going to promote Nolvanda and Monica and after we get the answer to this question I'll yield the floor to them I'm having to jump in um in in in our work it's a great question because it's really fundamental I guess more broadly it's about how do you help an organization revalue activities that have often been seen as a cost and the old the old story was that as soon as budget needed to be tightened the sustainable stuff was the first to be cut but I guess what we've seen in in our work is that when say the sustainability function can be communicating risk in a language that other parts of the business can understand they're much more likely to take action in line with what is necessary to control that risk so using very you know technical language for a way in our case to be promoting and developing stronger deeper relationships with with community the other way that I've seen this is you know a good example is with procurement so procurement notoriously in companies are savage you know they are just focused on on the bottom line and getting the best deal but but where leaders within the company can say actually we can introduce additional criteria for evaluating value and and what cost means now and in the future their procurement is able to make decisions that that have a broader set of criteria other than just um like of cost so in both of those cases it's about how do we broaden the conversation within a company beyond the little silos in which they get trapped typically in one way or three language and another is through I think good leadership in those in those spaces could I add sorry please go ahead yeah I'll let Renato add and then roll we we have to I think that some of here I can remember the time of the quality projects there in 1990s okay and it was very important that if the company is very transparent and try to bring everybody in the company to the same objective eventually there will be some some some some departments that will go quicker other than will go slower but as it is transparency there's transparency in the how it's being applied in the company certainly in a you know in a time space we can certainly align the whole company so needs transparency in the way that all the the departments are engaged okay and either either the the board the directory and managers they have to show that they are also involved but again the whole company has to be uh needs to be open how each department is getting involved yeah complimenting this all have to understand that ESG and SDG are not more expensive not additional costs if you apply it right it will save money for the company I remember uh a bunch of deaf social scientists from the united nations said once that it's difficult to measure the investments in social environmental management but for sure for sure it's much cheaper than the cost of a crisis so this the the people in the inside the companies and all of them have to understand wonderful unfortunately I think we lost our first question from nilda so I'm going to go ahead and ask monica to unmute and if she's comfortable you know connect your camera and ask your question and after her we'll go to francisco what we'll take answers from the panel and then we'll go to francisco hello everyone and I have a question how to convince this kind of mining companies to change their own concepts and look for the targets for 2030 agenda because in practice we have a problems with the cosmetics and superficial sustainable development goals application in some mining companies that's it thank you anyone who wants to begin answering that question just try it I'll do it again I'll jump in um well my sense is we we need to come at the issue from from every direction we can think of all at once and uh and to to provide the tools for both rewarding and I guess publicly revealing those companies that are not doing a great job or acting in a cosmetic way in in these areas so you know I think I think this is where ESG is so interesting and promising but also it's at such a critical moment that those of us with a with a passion with an interest and with technical you know expertise in those spaces should be getting in and helping to define what successful activity and practice in those spaces looks like and not leaving it no disrespect to lawyers to define what good community relations looks like you know and and to really try and win that argument because we're trying to win the future right and then uh from from revealing um uh company activity there I think larger activities are required where we aggregate knowledge and and data to to show those companies that are doing well and those that are not doing well and those that are on the journey um and uh and to allow the markets to differentiate um and to reward those companies with cheaper capital with with cheaper insurance with you know with with better human resources because workforce who is people want to go and work for companies that are making real progress in these in these areas so so actually I think we need to try and win all the battles all at once and there's plenty of us working in lots of different spaces to to be doing that um but uh but needing to approach it with clear eyes um uh with with what is at stake if we're not to achieve those goals all right yeah go ahead I was going to say if anybody has anything to add jump in compliment well we have to understand that mining companies are dominated by geologists engineers financial professions and and in some companies it's too much dominance of this sector of these professions and it's and taking the the presentation by hearing by making the risk accountable okay quantitative certainly will be much easier to to bring these people on board to understand that there is a a number for the risk there and said that they would understand better so the cosmetic will will will lose when they are faced to the the quantitative previews no one else has something to add we'll uh ask Francisco to please go ahead and unmute yourself and if you're comfortable turn on your camera uh please ask your question and a heads up to Richard Sam I'm going to promote you as a a panelist so you'll be next after Francisco but Francisco please go ahead can you hear me yes oh thanks very much for this opportunity first let me compliment the panelists you gave excellent talks and it is nice to see the progress but I'd like just to and not be provocative but I know that I will be but this is not my intention anyway my point is I think it's still too short time for us to be using the expression sustainable mining territories and why I'm saying that it's because it's very recently that we heard and these talks today we've heard of that and I'm very glad of that we heard on communication and shared information this is not the case in several examples and I don't want just to focus on the Brazilian cases but of course I will use this as a case for this my suggestion and for my question uh I think we are still in a very infancy of the idea of sustainable mining territories we have indeed to understand the combination of SDGs and the ESGs as it was said today and but why I asked it to make this question is because I think we started doing something from the right angle and this is basically sustainable communication and shared information but not being provocative we have perhaps the idea why we say too often sustainable mining is because we have been thinking too much in compensation and perhaps less in restoration I'd like to hear from you about this point thank you and again thanks very much for this opportunity anyone again who wants to start with the reflections on this I don't know Renato maybe since we mentioned a specific example I was I was expecting that growth with would answer but she was a good friend Francis was a good friend but we the idea of proposing in fact sustainable uh mining territory that's uh that's a challenge that that's uh uh for the future we know that and I mentioned that if we if there is no effort by government by mining companies to to to create the conditions for for for for accelerating sustainability in the mining territory we won't reach that okay in fact the mining companies that don't concern with the engagement of the mining territory acts in the future they certain will be restriction to their objectives okay so they won't have success on the ESG or SDGs or social life slavery if they don't they don't succeed to to bring the territory actors on board otherwise we're just being there'll be just a increasing conflicts okay so it's part of at least my presentation to call that there is a need it's a prerequisite to let's say to to establish sustainable mining as a goal but understanding that we are far away from from accelerating that attending Renato's call that's uh I I have to to agree partially with Francisco and um because we have two two less understanding too much greenwashing uh already in place not only mining in all activities and but the world is changing and very is changing very quickly and to achieve a a better territory management uh in addition to understanding another key point is manage expectations because uh not well managed expectations bring frustration and this have to be a focus for the companies that if they frustrate someone they will have a problem in the near future thank you uh so we'll ask Richard Sam to come on and connect and make his question and then I'm going to promote Maria Marquez I think you're going to get our last question I have a feeling after Sam's question and yours we're going to be to time Richard please go ahead uh yes I want to say thank you for this opportunity ESM and actually various you know sectors of the country I will speak specifically to my context so I'm from Liberia uh West Africa uh based on the presentation firstly I'm in a public space so the ESM background knows uh the the presenter talked about environmental issues which is low when it comes to ESM and which I agree with him because sometimes um some of the chemicals some of these uh mining companies uh they affect the water bodies of our local communities especially the downstream impact and also even the deep kind of big holes and sometimes the needle holes are being uh and then backfield sometimes the power diversity and a lot of runoff effects the drinking water of local communities I will give an example why recently in my country there's a company called B-Mountain so uh B-Mountain imported chemical abuse on the mines and due to my handling of the chemical the chalk you know the the chalk I was taking the chemical actually had an accident and local communities had to be relocated and uh within a relocation of these local communities involuntarily uh it becomes difficult who takes the responsibility which is the government but sometimes uh city redress an emergency situation where communities will have at least their basic needs met it becomes difficult and that was the case with with with my country yeah and even the pitches you can see are their pitches in the water I would I would stop there for on the environmental issue that it brings me to the social aspect uh the presenter yes he said uh artists in a small scale mining and increased jobs for local communities he spoke with them but how sustainable are these jobs it's it's it's something and we have to look at and that brings me to our gender our gender aspect we have a lot of women they're involved in accessional uh small scale mining we have also a lot of young people and capacity building and these women capacity build actually to to be able to carry out the operations of the small scale mining and sometimes most most often on these mining sites and women are exposed and to to abuses because of the illicit transaction there's a flow of income sometimes money laundering so these are issues actually I think needs to be considered like for example doing the pandemic gender depreciated impacts and you set the time of the most women were home through the pandemic only may have the opportunity to actually work on some of the mining sites because of that it reduced the impact the income of a women-led household so there are a lot of issues we can look at governance the participation and actually of of women of young people and I've been trained I've been offered the technical skills and when it comes to safety and health issues are these issues being addressed actually we found most of the in developing countries we found most women and young people exposed to these kind of challenges so these are issues actually to be looked at when it comes to my actual my context so I just want to say thank you to the panelists and we will see more when it comes to how we can mainstream our gender accessibility into our traditional small scale mining thank you Richard any members of our panel want to reflect or respond to any of his comments or queries highlighting a number of important issues if you judge you could compliment no sorry I was answering a question here online so I didn't follow the discussion so I will not be able to to compliment sorry well just to just to respond there I think it's really great this discussion there a canvassing of of a whole bunch of of critical issues Richard and you know I just pick up one in particular which is you know the commentary around gender and progressing those spaces and there's another question in the in the feed earlier about progress against scg8 and meaningful employment and work and economic development and I guess you know both of those questions really kind of illustrate that progress is is uneven in those spaces and if you if you look at kind of aggregated or averaged you know reporting or you know progress against some of those issues things can can look better than they perhaps perhaps are and mask issues that exist at local scales and issues that are dynamic in their nature with covert as you said Richard changing the nature of of some of those relationships overnight and quite dramatically and I guess this is why you know for me I feel like there is enormous value in in constant systematic investigation understanding of these issues through the eyes of of community members that are experiencing these dynamic changes and to make those things visible so that so that we can we can develop more flexible robust ways to address that within the sdg framework so it's a was just a really great canvassing of some some very big complex issues thank you we'll turn to Maria for our last question to wrap up our session please Maria feel free to unmute yourself and if you want connect your camera hi everyone can you hear and see me uh we can hear you but we can't see you well i'm clicking on the start video button but it's not working okay i'm sorry about that but please let's let's go ahead and at least get you an answer to your question yeah sure uh so thank you all for the presentations today they were very insightful and i was wondering if henna to you talked a little bit about stakeholders and the business ecosystem around mining territories so something that i was wondering is that what is the role of small business and entrepreneurs to empower these mining territories understanding that we have a whole ecosystem of a bunch of actors that are working towards well mining territories and and sustainable mining territories so if you have an insight on this i would love to hear that well um maybe we won't be the full answer but i was thinking uh before um there is certainly a challenge how to how to bring together uh actors with different cultures different challenge different expectations different timing uh so i was i was uh one one propose that we establish we put some effort to bring each domain okay like the company's domain the the territorial actors domain like like communities stakeholders governance governance government other other private sector so that each of these segments optimize their own system of governance so if we don't optimize in each of these segments before they they put together we won't reach success on that a lot of mining companies they still don't have their own governance a lot of communities they don't have their own governance there is a there is a lot of authoritarian profiles in each of the of the systems let's say government communities stakeholders private sector mayors and so on so it won't be it will be impossible okay to converge all the systems to a to a to a good governance between them if we don't optimize the governance by itself by each segment so my first each segment make their homework and optimize their own governance and their own consolidation of cultures understanding each one culture each one expectation and so on so before we fully wrap up and sign off if anyone on our panel has any additional remarks they would like to make we've said it all and i know oh please roll please go ahead yeah no only uh to say that we can extend this panel until tomorrow or next week because the the it's a it's a fascination to to talk and think and learn about this so i think today was a great day but one and a half hours too too last time laura maybe would be interesting for people to know the in the audience that you will be informing all them about the links for the for the for the videos of the whole presentation and eventually we are going to use this this list to invite for the the coming webinars okay and also for participating of the platform yes exactly you took all the words out of my mouth my whole concluding remarks so thank you so much everyone for joining us thank you so much to our wonderful panel we had fabulous presentations and a very rich discussion which we hope everybody will want to continue on our platform after we sign off probably sometime tomorrow you'll get an email in your inbox that will include a link to the recording of this webinar any slides that our panel is comfortable sharing and a link to join our online platform and discussion forum where we will have ample time to continue this discussion we'll share future webinars publications resources events so we hope to see everybody collaborating with us there uh and advancing the sdgs in mining thank you again so much to everyone for joining and again to our wonderful panel and uh i wish everybody a great rest of your day in whatever times of your in thank you orange the great job thank you